Ben Townley shares Pro Circuit's secrets to why their bikes were so fast - Gypsy Tales
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- Опубликовано: 21 авг 2022
- World Motocross and AMA Champion Ben Townley explains why Pro Circuit Kawasaki was so dominant in the early 4 stroke era.
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World Motocross and AMA Champion Ben Townley made the trip across the ditch to support his son Jagger racing at the Australian Nationals. We took a couple of days out of the studio to do some one on one coaching with Ben (full video coming soon) and then to catch up for the podcast. Bens first appearance on the podcast was in 2019 where we went deep into his career, but this time, we wanted to do a podcast that matches our phone calls during the week.
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That New Zealander was nothing, but a 1st class ripper. Miss watching that guy.
I was at Budds Creek in 07. I was standing at the bottom of the big uphill triple and most of the 250F's engines were dragging down a little by the time they hit the lip of the jump (sound change). Not Poto's Pro Circuit 250, that thing was at high rpm from the base the whole way to take-off. I looked at my buddy and said "that ain't a normal 250". -- not bullshitting, I'll never forget that.
We were on the hill beside the big tabletop in the middle. Watched Villo launch from the top of the big downhill before it every lap. Blew my 11 year old mind every time
Gearing
Lol
Whoa i bet crazyyy
That’s all gearing buddy
I have to tell a little story. Back when I bought my new ‘85 CR250, I had to go to the service department to get the owners manual. I think this was by design. Anyway, I already knew the service manager was brilliant. He turned out to be one of the top tuners for a factory team. He told me that if I bought a PC pipe and took the barrel off, he would port it to match the pipe. I was all for it, because I knew that this 250 had a massive low end hit and nothing else. He told me that it would be the fastest 250 around. Holly shit, he was not kidding. It had almost as much power as my CR500, which I bought like 6 months later. So, I had both of them to compare. It just had a shit load of power everywhere. A factory rider rode it, and said it was faster than his race bike. I could do third gear starts and get the wholeshot every time. I climbed the big hill at Jawbone Cyn on it. I shifted into 4th, three quarters up the hill. And it sounded like my CR500. It had a bark like an angry dog on meth. I still haven’t ridden anything like it.
I had a 1995 YZ250 , stock. That bike just had something. I’d had many 250 & ridden friends.and no 250 of the day , friends / racing were like that bike. It was a rocket, should never of sold it, but needed to update and trade etc. I’ve had better bikes as years have gone on, but in the day that 95 mod was a weapon.
The 07 KTM 250sx is a insane bike. Fortunately I snagged one and have fully rebuilt it from the ground up. Something about the CDI & cylinder/head was awesome. I’ve rode a lot of brand new 250-300 2 strokes and nothing compares to the 2 2007 250sx I’ve rode.
There’s a video of one just ripping on RUclips. Search 07 KTM 250sx and it’s a helmet cam video. Watch and listen.
@goinhot9133 i had the chance to ride one around 09 or 10. It was easily the fastest 250 i ever rode. It did really well on our sand track with big rolling whoops. Same day i rode a 360 ktm 02 maybe. Too fast scared the sh*t outta me
These videos are so sick and chill AF, keep up the hard work Gypsy Gang 🤟🤙#fullsend
Ben is extremely knowledgeable and epic conversation
And super humble. THAT is what I look for in supporting a rider. Most of the really Greats had that one thing going for them.
Ben sounds like a good dude. I raced against him in the pro class l, but never had the opportunity to speak with him. Wish I would have.
Find out if he still does his tours here in NZ or get a crew together and hit him up.
I remember an article outlining NOS packets in the PC bike that released high in the gear... RV probably riding the closer to a 350 at that point, with some Sunstar handguards with no logos
Villopoto was a pleasure to watch. So was Townley in those days!
My riding buddies son got one of Villopoto’s practice bikes. A 2006 Pro Circuit Kawasaki KX250F. He said it’s really fast like a 350 4 stroke. I was in his garage and saw it and was like what’s this ? She had a lot of Team Kawasaki parts on it. Still looks good today
i used to oggle over the pro circuit practice bikes at the factory in southern cali. they were around $10k compared to a $5-6k bike new. as a kid i wanted one soooo bad lol. i ended up getting a 2001 kx 125 and putting splitfire graphics on it
And I guarantee PC took off all the really secret sauce. My bro was buddies with Wardy back in the day. He bought his MXDN bike. When we went to pick it up, they rolled the bike back into the facility for a couple hours to take all the really trick stuff off and rolled it back out. Visually, still looked the exact same, the parts we saw were the same (or at least appeared to be), but it’s what we didn’t see that probably made the most difference.
I knew Ben personally when he lived in the U.S. Absolutely first class guy and an amazing rider. Unfortunately he got bit by the injury bug and that derailed his racing career. I would loved to have seen him have the opportunity to put together several healthy years in AMA and supercross.
There's no doubt if he'd stayed healthy in the 450s he'd have a couple championships .
Man I really miss those PC bikes from 06-08. The best bike I ever had was my 2008 kx250f. Fully decked out in PC graphics. Black rims. It was so sick
That’s what got me into riding 🙏
I seem to remember that a guy from coswerth was doing pcs engines years back and regarding gearboxes around the same time they used to take out gears for less rotating mass and polished for less drag
my 06 only had 4 gears. Infinite torque
A lot of the magic was from the two strokes days when there was power to be made from porting and pipe matching.
I don't think there's much more that thumpers can gain as the valves control the flow.
That's why they're looking at the gearboxes.
Xtrac does the pro circuit boxes , they build stuff for every other major motorsport platform . The coatings and bearing and seal technology have moved forward since then
PC's recent struggles have been brutal mismanagement of their riders. AC, Forkner, Crashadoo, Hammaker, Marchbanks, Savatgy all have race wins and had potential to win titles. All seemed to crash more than stay upright. They almost fucked up Shimoda, too. Thankfully he's getting better advice and guidance in MX. I believe they had a bike like Ben says. Pourcel, Tedsco, Weimer and Tickle won titles in SX for them back then.
They screwed up getting rid of marchbanks
@@jaybee1433 hahaa what has he done since he left, not a damn thing lol.
@@jackbannock3458 I heard it was Marchbanks agent that wrecked the deal more than anything. Marchbanks has been riding second class equipment since he left and still got a 3rd and some 4ths and 5ths on a 250 at over 6', 180 lbs. In the 450s he's been around 9-12 this year dealing with Addison's disease which I believe is basically permanent Epstein/Barr. Not bad results for a 21 year old fourth year pro who has been hurt almost every year. Unless he gets lucky, he'll still end up a privateer for life.
@@jackbannock3458 he sissy fitted on a pro circuit rider and everyone forgot about it
... Barcia... Oh barcia 😂 he gettin it deep by the ama... No lube
How is crashing all the time caused by "brutal mismanagement"?
A friend of mine son raced 250s for PC and told me they had 450 power and I was skeptical until hearing this…..
Gear box is the truth I had a bike built thru a friend who knew bones and I got some gear box work done along with some valve train work and the bike was a rocket in 2009, I sold it to a friend it’s still a rocket today
fun fact: PC had traction control before anyone else. Mitch was getting help from his F1 contacts in UK. Thus "legal cheating" because there was a handshake agreement that the teams would not go down that route. But PC started it.
Coswell was making the gear boxes. They are also cryogenically hardened and isotropic super finished.
If I remember correctly, Pro circuit used Nova Race transmission over here in the UK.
The UK based Kawasaki factory teams, for all types of bike racing are generally consider as the best outside of Japan. Not sure about the mx side now but the road racing still is considered the best, domestic factory team.
it wasnt just the tranny. It was the electronics as well.
Why the PC dominance went away Rider injury played a massive part in that & in that time the time the industry other manufacturers and teams caught up
Pro circuit team Kawasaki bikes were always fast even the 125cc bikes riden by Ryan Hughes, Nick Wey, Michael Pichon(who was fast AF) in the early and mid 1990's just plain worked and barked like a CR250R. Split Fire Pro Circuit Kawi's I always felt were the best looking bikes, with the best looking gear. Even there pit set up with the Truck, the display. Everything matched and was coordinated like someone with serious OCD orchestrated that entire teams thing they showed to the world. So many future champions past through on that team and became champions while riding those bikes. Pretty dominate 125cc team
Pro Circuit was definitely ahead of the curve back then. I mean the Yamaha was still running a carburetor in 07. Plus look at the riders they had also.
Kawasaki didn't have fuel injection on their 250f till 2011.
2009 crf450r was first fuel injected mx
@@garyhewitt1888 Maybe my years are off a little. I do believe the Yamaha was last to be fuel injected. I had an 07. Seemed like not long after I got it the other bike were fuel injected. Times flies. Probably was a few 6ears later then maybe.
Yamaha 250f’s had carbs until 2014
@@garyhewitt1888 08 rmz450 actually.
Ask Deegan why he raised so much hell to keep an amateur bike from being claimed
Because he needed the bike to race the next day (Sunday)
Team Green Always!
Top secret machinist’s are the key form mini’s to MXGP. If the inspector doesn’t even know what to look for hard to get caught. Or even have a rule for it.
So correct. Custom cams are sooo huge in racing. Specifically ones that have the same stock "Lift" cause thats all they could really measure. So racers could add a little more duration to intake and exhaust, tweak or toy with intake and exhaust centerlines.
@@nasty3145 And what your talking about is simple stuff. Some elitist Motor guy’s out there!
Their gearboxes were / still are done by xtrac in Thatcham in the UK 🇬🇧
Cool company, they build gearboxes for pretty much everything f1,, e.v's
Motogp.
Pretty sure the Daytona Prototype I did a lil wrenching on in 2010 was running an XTrac sequential box. IIRC, around this time, 'gentlemen drivers'(those who pay to get in a seat instead of getting paid to get in a seat) got to run paddle shifters while the teams that ran a full pro driver lineup had to use a sequential shift lever, so it had an air shifter to handle the paddle shifts.
Ben is such a rad dude! 🇳🇿🥝
Just like Haiden Deegan's bike lol
Lynn Bell😄😄👍
I herd of a story of 1 of there PC cylinders left on a bike thay had sold. Mitch said to the new owner...I will swap you a brand new cylinder for the 1 thats on your KX125. Owner declined the offer. Apparently it was David Pingree's old race bike.
Mitch Didn't want his secrets out.
I dont think 07 will ever happen again. The way the bike dev was at that time and where the 450s were. The layout of budds. All the off cambers and elevation changes. It was a perfect storm.
new zealand yea boy
Bidding wars for fourteen yearolds. The Alessi boys showed how bad that idea was. Honda still smiles to this day for KTM swooping in and bailing them out of that disaster.
04-05 was the kawzukis
IT'S OUR JOB TO CHEAT AND THEIR JOB TO CATCH US! WE'RE RACERS MAN! WE LOOK FOR ANY AND ALL ADVANTAGES. RULES ARE LEFT OPEN TO INTERPRETATION!......
How many horsies did Villo's Pro Circuit Kawasaki KX250F have at Buds 2007? 59hp? 61?
Serious 60 HP on a 250 4 strokes ????
Please give your good insight about Barcia the drama that ensued
I’m done giving insight ha
@@GYPSYTALES racing incident, there done. Everybody go home. Shows over.
Ama heading toward timed races with staggered starts, all in the name of rider safety...
A Kawasaki can be pushed to the limit without blowing up
God joke... timing chain skips off
@@therealbankseaidk...my 06 kx450f is beat on non stop and it just needs its valves lashed
Boom
Shakalaka
TOWNLEY SPANKED! HE JUST HAD SOME BAD LUCK....
Was the engine guru named Drino Miller? At one time he built engines for USAC midgets.
Yep, it was Drino Miller. He was behind the Gurney Eagles, Ivan Stewart's Baja trucks and the Pikes Peak Celica/ Tacoma to name just a few. Rest in peace.
@@matthewleininger2474 That explains A. LOT.
I can understand mitch getting fed up i paint cars an i got fed up becuase have lost their minds they come to u the pro an wanna tell u how it is...an they cant because they dont know so they leave...because they cant be in control...tje downside of internet an computers people think they know how everyones job work forgetting that skill is needed years of experience is needed
👍🏽🇺🇸👍🏽
The bikes today do not even compare to the ones in 07. You barely have to do motor work today
Big bore Big boreBig Bore !!!!!!
There is legal, then there is cheating. There is no such thing as legal cheating. If it is legal, then it isn't cheating. If it is cheating it ain't legal.
It's the gear box - what a wacker. friking gear box not going to make/save an extra 5 hp
You know Ben won a championship on the exact bike he was talking about right?
@@GYPSYTALES Sure but he's bullshitting here. No pommy polished gearbox is going to give you 5hp
@@jamesal0 tell me you don't know anything, without telling me you don't know anything. Everything done in a engine makes everything work in a certain way, the gear box being shaved/polished whatever most certainly played it's roll. Your dumb sorry but I'll call a spade a spade any day of the week.
Closing up gear ratios can make quite a big difference. You say tune a motor for peak horsepower at mid to high RPM then close up the gaps between gears and have the riders always ride in meat of the power. If internal gearing didn't make a difference why has Honda recently been changing primary gear ratios in their 250 engines to try close gaps with other manufacturers.
@@craigdally418 yep just need a rider good enough to keep the bike in the revs round the whole lap for 30 minutes
Click bait
Click bait? Or a direct quote from the guest who raced the bike he was talking about in the clip?
Secrets? You did ask Ben three or four times what the secret sauce was but the only little thing you got out of him was a gearbox. I just wish it would’ve been a little bit more in depth
@@GYPSYTALES 🤣🤣🤣 Right on Gypsy. You the man.
@@billbout8743 he's a rider not a mechanic or engine builder. What were you expecting?
@@craigdally418 The answer too "Ben Townley shares Pro Circuit's secrets to why their bikes were so fast"
I trust Brian when he told me it’s a stock motoro but Mitch is a cheater. You are a drongo! “Haiden is the victim”