What Is the Gift of Tongues? | Episode 158
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- Опубликовано: 11 июл 2024
- In 1 Corinthians 12, Paul lists nine gifts imparted by the Holy Spirit. Notably, in verse 10, he includes "different kinds of tongues" and "the interpretation of tongues.” In this episode, Dr. David K. Bernard explains the significance of these gifts and offers insight into how modern believers can engage with them.
To learn more about this subject, see Dr. Bernard's book "Spiritual Gifts," available at pentecostalpublishing.com/pro....
If you enjoyed this video, keep in touch with Dr. Bernard on social media and make sure to subscribe to this channel for upcoming episodes.
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#theology #bible #biblestudy #bibleteaching #pentecostal #upci #doctrine #spiritualgifts
I tell you I’m happy that you put these videos up.. so many today reject the power of the Holy Ghost.. they reject the idea of miracles.. they reject baptism.. we truly are witnessing prophecy fulfilled 2 Timothy 3:1-7.. and 1 Corinthians 1:18…. I’m here every week excited about whatever videos you put up Rev🙏🏽
Praise the Lord when He gives us a word from Him! Thank you Brother Bernard for a great explanation of Tongues. God bless you!
Praise the Lord Jesus Christ..Amen
Love first…. Tongues last… beneath all the spiritual gifts… The Spiritual Gifts are for the edification of everyone - whether they are Christian or not…
Amen....thanks Pastor
I don't speak in tongues, it's 5 years being baptized in Jesus name Amen. Please pray for me
Sushila Wati Fiji Pentecostals of nadi
Hallelujah JESUS GODBLESS PASTOR
Thank you both!
Love this channel.. Bible answers💯
There is a difference between the evidence & the gifts
I really enjoy the videos from this channel but the 90 second intro is feeling a bit excessive. In this case the intro alone was over 10% of the video
Then skip it
Totally agree. For this one the first couple of sentences outlining the subject of the video would suffice.
1 Corinthians 14:5
“I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.”
Prophecy can come through tongues.
@@hargisP2
John 10:27
“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:”
@@hargisP2
"IF" you interpret.
@@hargisP2 Bible verse please?
Paul also says not all speak in toungs
Amen
I met people who speak and tongues and they have NO LOVE for brothers and sisters at church. So how can GOD give these gifts and they don’t even have the greatest gift which is LOVE
The gift of the Holy Spirit [to me] is the understanding of right from wrong. Because in the world...the things we did appeared harmless, but now that we are Baptized and on this side of life and truth...we realize the severity of our actions and words because of the Wisdom God pours in us through the Spirit, which is the Gift. The Holy Spirit Himself IN US is the actual Gift.
@@angieayala4374: I think we have a lack of communication and understanding here. To be fair your comment has no relevance either to Pastor Bernard's teaching on the subject of "tongues," and I tell everyone here on RUclips the same thing because 99% of the world is unsaved and the majority of ppl who do believe in Christ are John 3:16 Trinitarians, so don't take it so personally, and if you do have the Holy Ghost you should already know how rare of a gift it is and how the world rejects the Acts 2:38 Salvation plan, and if you think otherwise than I encourage you to go visit the comments section of every online religious video here on RUclips and you'll find out for yourself that 99% of Christianity disagrees with you and I, and they'll tell you that you're wrong and I've witnessed to tens of thousands of ppl online and they all say the same thing and don't believe in the Holy Ghost, and you'll even find thousands of comments here on David Bernard's videos of ppl who disagree, and will argue until their last breath, and it's our job to try and teach the truth and correct ppls false doctrinal beliefs. Lastly, it doesn't take having the Holy Ghost to know right from wrong because I know many ppl who don't have the Holy Ghost who do know right from wrong because Christ built a conscience into every human soul on earth, but it takes the Holy Ghost to understand the truth.
@@angieayala4374: I think we have a lack of communication and understanding here. To be fair your comment has no relevance either to Pastor Bernard's teaching on the subject of "tongues," and I tell everyone here on RUclips the same thing because 99% of the world is unsaved and the majority of ppl who do believe in Christ are John 3:16 Trinitarians, so don't take it so personally, and if you do have the Holy Ghost you should already know how rare of a gift it is and how the world rejects the Acts 2:38 Salvation plan, and if you think otherwise than I encourage you to go visit the comments section of every online religious video here on RUclips and you'll find out for yourself that 99% of Christianity disagrees with you and I, and they'll tell you that you're wrong and I've witnessed to tens of thousands of ppl online and they all say the same thing and don't believe in the Holy Ghost, and you'll even find thousands of comments here on David Bernard's videos of ppl who disagree, and will argue until their last breath, and it's our job to try and teach the truth and correct ppls false doctrinal beliefs. Lastly, it doesn't take having the Holy Ghost to know right from wrong because I know many ppl who don't have the Holy Ghost who do know right from wrong because Christ built a conscience into every human soul on earth, but it takes the Holy Ghost to understand the truth. I think you misunderstood the spirit of my comment and what I was trying to convey to you, but it's no biggie because I have very thick skin.
@@angieayala4374: I think we have a lack of communication and understanding here. To be fair your comment has no relevance either to Pastor Bernard's teaching on the subject of "tongues," and I tell everyone here on RUclips the same thing because 99% of the world is unsaved and the majority of ppl who do believe in Christ are John 3:16 Trinitarians, so don't take it so personally, and if you do have the Holy Ghost you should already know how rare of a gift it is and how the world rejects the Acts 2:38 Salvation plan, and if you think otherwise than I encourage you to go visit the comments section of every online religious video here on RUclips and you'll find out for yourself that 99% of Christianity disagrees with you and I, and they'll tell you that you're wrong and I've witnessed to tens of thousands of ppl online and they all say the same thing and don't believe in the Holy Ghost, and you'll even find thousands of comments here on David Bernard's videos of ppl who disagree, and will argue until their last breath, and it's our job to try and teach the truth and correct ppls false doctrinal beliefs. Lastly, it doesn't take having the Holy Ghost to know right from wrong because I know many ppl who don't have the Holy Ghost who do know right from wrong because Christ built a conscience into every human soul on earth, but it takes the Holy Ghost to understand the truth. I think you misunderstood the spirt of my comment and what I was trying to convey to you, but it's no biggie to me because I have very thick skin and I apologize if I offended you in any way. God bless.
@@angieayala4374: I think we have a lack of communication and understanding here. To be fair your comment has no relevance either to Pastor Bernard's teaching on the subject of "tongues," and I tell everyone here on RUclips the same thing because 99% of the world is unsaved and the majority of ppl who do believe in Christ are John 3:16 Trinitarians, so don't take it so personally, and if you do have the Holy Ghost you should already know how rare of a gift it is and how the world rejects the Acts 2:38 Salvation plan, and if you think otherwise than I encourage you to go visit the comments section of every online religious video here on RUclips and you'll find out for yourself that 99% of Christianity disagrees with you and I, and they'll tell you that you're wrong and I've witnessed to tens of thousands of ppl online and they all say the same thing and don't believe in the Holy Ghost, and you'll even find thousands of comments here on David Bernard's videos of ppl who disagree, and will argue until their last breath, and it's our job to try and teach the truth and correct ppls false doctrinal beliefs. Lastly, it doesn't take having the Holy Ghost to know right from wrong because I know many ppl who don't have the Holy Ghost who do know right from wrong because Christ built a conscience into every human soul on earth, but it takes the Holy Ghost to understand the truth. I think you misunderstood the spirt of my comment and what I was trying to convey to you, but it's no biggie to me because I have very thick skin and I apologize if I offended you in any way. God bless.
@@angieayala4374: I think we have a lack of communication and understanding here. To be fair your comment has no relevance either to Pastor Bernard's teaching on the subject of "tongues," and I tell everyone here on RUclips the same thing because 99% of the world is unsaved and the majority of ppl who do believe in Christ are John 3:16 Trinitarians, so don't take it so personally, and if you do have the Holy Ghost you should already know how rare of a gift it is and how the world rejects the Acts 2:38 Salvation plan, and if you think otherwise than I encourage you to go visit the comments section of every online religious video here on RUclips and you'll find out for yourself that 99% of Christianity disagrees with you and I, and they'll tell you that you're wrong and I've witnessed to tens of thousands of ppl online and they all say the same thing and don't believe in the Holy Ghost, and you'll even find thousands of comments here on David Bernard's videos of ppl who disagree, and will argue until their last breath, and it's our job to try and teach the truth and correct ppls false doctrinal beliefs. Lastly, it doesn't take having the Holy Ghost to know right from wrong because I know many ppl who don't have the Holy Ghost who do know right from wrong because Christ built a conscience into every human soul on earth, but it takes the Holy Ghost to understand the truth. I think you misunderstood the spirt of my comment and what I was trying to convey to you, but it's no biggie to me because I have very thick skin and I apologize if I offended you in any way. God bless.
Amen I have the Holy Ghost because I speak in tongues I also have diversity of tongues I have spoke languages of today I don’t know if I have the gift of tongues it’s never happened in church ❤
Do all speak with tongues?
Many people don't understand the difference between the gift of tongues and the gift of the holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 14:4
“He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.”; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.”
.
If we have the Holy Spirit there must be some edification of the fact.. Speak in Tongues, Prophesying, healing the sick, cast out demons..???
Yes some think they have the Holy Spirit because they prayed a prayer.
@@hargisP2
They are in the wrong Church.!
Ephesians 4:14
“That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;”
Praise GOD, can bro Bernard do a podcast about God revealing himself to Moses as Yahweh/Jehovah in Exodus 6:3 and states that Abraham didn’t know him as that name but Abraham called him Jehovah Jireh. Can Bro Bernard address this?
Where can I get the book "Spiritual Gifts". I live in South Africa
pentecostalpublishing.com/products/spiritual-gifts
Stick with the Bible - "Word of God"
1 John 2:27
“But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.”
1 corinthiens 14:22-23 explains what happens when a nonbeliever comes into church and if everyone is talking in tongues they would not understand and because of that they won’t be able to hear a message that can make them change, instead they will call everyone in the crazy people, but it says what a difference if the nonbelievers comes inside and listen to a message a priest is telling and the words touches their hearts it would be a better chance for those nonbelievers to accept Jesus and change their ways. , and paul said he can speak many different tongues 1 corinthiens 14:18 , and then he said he would rather say 5 words for everyone to understand than 10.000 words in tongues that no one could understand corinthiens 14:19 , there is an order to people who has this gift of tongues 1 corinthiens 14:27-31 and 1 corinthiens 14:40 this gift should be use in church with interpretation or use by the own person to communicate in private, if it is use in public with no interpretation is like talking to the air 1 corinthiens 9 1 corinthiens 14:33 saïd. God is not a God of confusion, so there’s an order to speak in public using tongues it is a gift from God but it should be use for edification to others not to be use to confuse others
Right when you pray for someone we don't use tongues, because it's for yourself.
‘and the world will know that ye are my disciples because of tongues ye speak to each other’ …
Somehow I don’t think Christ God said that…. Yeah. I am pretty sure his disciples are known by the love they have for each other… yeah.
Yes, and you lack that love big time.
One God
The Greek word Kai is translated as and, it is also Even or that is. The word And does not mean another person. Matt 28:19 says NAME singular which is Jesus. All you have to do is read through acts and notice when they mentioned baptism. Jesus is considered the Lamb of God, the King of Kings, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the High Priest. And you believe that, but you don’t believe that One God can be all of that and more.
Isaiah 44:6-8 KJVS
[6] Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. [7] And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them. [8] Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it ? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
Revelation 1:7-8 KJVS
[7] Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. [8] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Isaiah 9:6 KJVS
[6] For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
1 Timothy 3:16 KJVS
[16] And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Colossians 2:8-9 KJVS
[8] Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. [9] For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Jude 1:25 KJVS
[25] To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
Well over 300 times the singular pronoun is used when speaking of God. The Greek Τριάδα is translated trinity. Not once is it used by the Apostles, nor of the OT writers. The OT is clear that ONE God was taught, then after the Apostles died He changed His mind?
Mark 12:29 KJVS
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Zechariah 14:9 KJVS
And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Ephesians 4:4-6 KJVS
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; [5] One Lord, one faith, one baptism, [6] One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
John 20:27-28 NKJV
Then He said to Thomas, "Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing." [28] And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" When people add to the word of God, they create confusion and trouble. That's exactly what Trinitarians do.
@@hargisP2 - my friend, you have no idea who I am, how I walk in every manner of conversation in my life - you only know that I am a ‘trinitarian’ - but in that, you know not what that actually means from an Orthodox dogmatic context, versus what you draw from in your indoctrination and experiences with other folks who know very little of the Faith - and try to place their heretical beliefs on me… There is so much in the Fractured West - floating around there that folks say is ‘trinitarian’… but is foreign to what the Church has preserved for the almost 2000 years now. You also, seem to have a penchant to try and take away Christ God from folks.
As an Orthodox Christian, I am charged to know the Faith, but more importantly to love God…. And allow the effectual working power of the Holy Spirit to work theosis in and through me. So. It’s not a knowledge game, as much as it is heart thing.
You say I do not love - but, you have no solid ground to stand in making that assertion. But. I know your doctrine. I also know your tactics. I also recognize your spirit… based on your words.
It’s one thing to provoke one another unto good works, that God be glorified… and to be zealous of good works. But God is not glorified when one diminishes another… and really, who are you and I try and take away Christ God away from folks… as if we really can?
If my behavior has seemed to you as unseemly, may God forgive as you forgive… Be encouraged, Cuthbert.
@@hargisP2 - thank you for the scripture references you cut and pasted above. Again, none of these verses contradict the Dogma of the Trinity - all that you referencing are all part of the Orthodox Fronema and are used to support and defend the Trinity.
It seems like you hear the word Trinity - and immediately you leap into action and do not listen… In Orthodox Theology and Soteriology, even when the same words are used as in the West… CONTEXT is every thing… and although the same words are being used… we are not saying the same thing.
Since Orthodoxy has preserved the Truth - and has changed the least of all the folks claiming to be of Christ - we can say that nothing really is ‘original’ in the UPCI - most of your organization’s teachings were selected out of the various holiness movements that shaped the American Revivalist period. Everything you have in your Darwin’s grab bag of Theology and Soteriology - was borrowed from another denomination… and at the core of it all - it’s a whole lotta Roman Church.
There are many inconvenient Scriptures that challenges the UPCI, the JW, and the Nestorian unique positions. And Dr Bernard has explained away these verses… as do all Oneness Pentecostals try and do. Perhaps it would be easier for you all to use a black magic marker and highlight Matthew 28:19… and all those problematic verses.
Orthodox Theology and Soteriology has always believed in ONE saving name. As in a singular name - ‘GOD Saves - The Anointed One’…. And we are baptized into Christ - into the likeness of His Death’. We have put on Christ.
As a Oneness Pentecostal, I sat down with my Jewish friends, and I discovered that my highly individualized American version of faith in Christ - did not mesh up with my Jewish friends and their understanding of who GOD was | is | and is to come. But in Orthodoxy, there are many touch points that remain the same and they can connect with in the Vesperal services.
You presume I haven’t read the book of Acts… Your go to chapters are 2, 8, 10, 19, and another one in the twenties… and of course we need to switch by and touch Acts 4:11. Am I wrong here?
I know, Oneness Pentecostalism teaches you to think highly of yourself … a people who were not a people, but now are the people of God. You believe because you have talked in tongues, clean up and set your life in order, and live according to the Standards… that ole righteous living … you’re all set. That whole modesty thing… I get it. And praise God that you strive to live ‘unto all pleasing’…. And yet the inconvenient truth is - there is always more to work on, and repent further on - if one is honest before God and man.
Like the thief on the cross, may we cry out to Christ God - Remember us, Oh Lord, when thou comest in thy Kingdom…
Lovingly, Cuthbert. PS - Perhaps you have noticed that I rarely type the majestic name of the Lord … this is intentional - to preserve its holiness and sacredness - this is similar to how the Jews will not say the name of God… and why I wrote ‘GOD Saves - the Anointed One’. Be encouraged.
There is absolutely nothing mysterious about Biblical "tongues" - and there is only *one* type - when referring to something spoken, they are nothing more than real, rational language(s); usually, but not always, unknown to those listening to them, but always known by the speaker(s) - it’s their native language (in some cases, it is a language the speaker has learned).
When it comes to something spoken, there are absolutely _no_ Biblical references to “tongues” that do not refer to, and cannot be explained in light of, real rational language(s), though it may not be the explanation you want to hear, and it may be one which is radically different from what you believe, or were taught.
_Nowhere_ in the Bible is 'modern' tongues-speech advocated or evidenced.
‘Tongues’ (read, *‘languages’* ) - the divine gift, is the God/Holy Spirit given ability to effortlessly learn to speak and be understood through real-language barriers. It is not xenoglossy (as many people incorrectly assume), nor is it the self-created non-cognitive non-language utterance of what certain Christian denominations are producing today (modern tongues-speech).
If biblical tongues are "always known by the speaker(s)," then why would Paul write, " For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful"? Paul's explanation of tongues in 1 Corinthians 14 refutes nearly everything in your comment. (Podcast Production Team)
@@DavidKBernardUPCI Because Paul was refering to how useless tongues was. Tongues were strictly used to communicate the message of the Gospel. Great men of God like John Macarthur and Jack Cottrell have shown the lack of fuit of this false emotional drive doctrine. Have never seen such a vanity in false doctrine promoted by people that claim to be speaking in tongues.
Speaking in Tongues in Church is not a sign for the unbeliever as he states. Where is he getting that from? And then to explain it as a miracle from God as a sign to the Unbeliever..... WHAT??? Paul says its confusing they will say that you are mad. Paul says let it be by 2 or no more than 3 to be followed by an interpretation. Where is he getting this stuff?
"Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers" - 1 Corinthians 14:22, NIV (Podcast Production Team)
@DavidKBernardUPCI vs. 22 should be read in a question format since Paul just went through explaining how it doesn't edify along with the analogy of the sounding trumpet not making any sense. Then he continued to say, as I already pointed out,... "let it be by 2 or at the most 3..."
"Groanings which cannot be uttered" are not languages ("tongues") -- the "tongues" of your church bodies are unknown sounds but certainly uttered. That which cannot be uttered cannot be HEARD, and your "tongues" are certainly uttered and audible, and thus heard, so they are clearly not "groanings which cannot be uttered."
You don’t think God knows and hears groaning?
@@hargisP2 I do think God knows everything, even that which cannot be uttered - but Bro Bernard is speaking of “groanings that cannot be uttered” as referring to speaking in tongues, which is on its face wrong since we ALL can hear tongues, not just God - so they ARE uttered, not the “groanings which cannot be uttered” which Paul is speaking about.
Romans 8
7. The carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
..
John 3:6,7
“That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit.”
“Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.”
I have to say this. In the word apostle, the letter T is silent and that’s how it should be pronounced. It bugs me when people pronounce the word apostle like apostle. Lol. The tea and the word apostle is silent.
What Bible are you studying. I don't think you understand the teachings of Paul. Do you understand the function of the Holy Spirit.
The Orthodox Study Bible commentary for this passage states: …’and the truly spiritual can control themselves. True spirituality is manifested in **preparedness, propriety and order, courtesy, and control. IF the Spirit is truly moving - there is a peace. This is already a tradition in the Church.**
The commentary also was quoting the Church Fathers - and explained that Paul’s correction to the Corinthians is precisely why tongues are NOT practiced in the Divine Liturgy.
This last person is iether bitter, or ignorant, not reading the bible from the beginning of the gospels as jesus said John 3:1-5, repeats what acts 2:38 said. People are smorgasbord, boarding, taking out what they like, and trashing the rest. They need childlike faith ,forget their concrete, or be lost. They are climbing up another way, and will be knockd down.😮😢
Did auto correct, auto wrong your post? I’m trying to figure out how people are smorgasbord and boarding … forgetting concrete to address their need for childlike faith?
@@realmccoy124 Again showing your arrogant side. Where’s the love?
@@hargisP2 - I am trying to understand what the post is about. Auto correct often auto wrong things I write… and I really want to understand what Judy was mentioning in her post.
You point out correctly that Paul says tongues are a sign for unbelievers, and you then go on to say that sometimes God delivers a message in tongues to be interpreted as a way to “arrest attention” so that the unbeliever acknowledges that “here is a miracle, here is a sign from God” -
But I know no *unbeliever* who has any critical thinking skills that thinks that suddenly hearing completely unknown sounds and syllables, followed by perhaps a short gap of silence, then suddenly a purported “interpretation” in the common language of those present, of those unknown sounds someone else spoke, concludes that he has witnessed “a miracle.”
A “miracle” is something that cannot be explained rationally. But this very common behavior in your churches can easily be explained rationally and therefore is the *least* likely explanation, NOT the *most* likely explanation, is a miracle.
It is therefore almost certainly NOT what the BELIEVERS believe it to be, an actual utterance from God in an unknown tongue, followed by an actual interpretation from God in the common tongue.
It is therefore NOT a sign to UNBELIEVERS, and so does NOT fit the kind of tongues that Paul is speaking about.
Please be honest and tell us (1) how many times you have heard tongues and interpretation in your churches and (2) how many of those times UNBELIEVERS came to you and said they were convinced they had witnessed a miracle of tongues and interoperation. If your claims are true, and your "gift of tongues" are the kind Paul says is a sign for unbelievers, your percentage of (1) from (2) should come close to 100%.
Tongues is the orginal greek was "known languages." The fact that penecostals think babbling is tongues shows how lost their movement is.
The Apostles did not receive the Spirit in Acts 2. You're a heretic. Either willingly or ignorantly. You always tie speaking in tongues as the initial sign of the indwelling of the Spirit. That's wrong. Mary, Joseph, the mother and father of John the Bpatist, all relieved the Spirit with Jesus in Mary's womb. The Apostles received the Holy Ghost when Jesus breathed it on them. And if I hear someone say that you can speak things that can't be uttered. THEY CANT BE UTTERED. It is when you can't say the right words, the Spirit says the right words for you in Spirit. You could not be more wrong about this whole topic.
So you must be a John 3:16 Trinitarian.
Calling Dr. Bernard a heretic you show your own ignorance. Sure some in the Old Testament were filled with the Holy Ghost but the Spirit did not remain with them as it did after Christ was glorified.
”(When he said “living water,” he was speaking of the Spirit, who would be given to everyone believing in him. But the Spirit had not yet been given, because Jesus had not yet entered into his glory.)“
John 7:39
@@derekbaker777 - your statement is a little nonsensical - and I think you probably already know that in your heart - because if the Dogma of the Trinity is John 3:16, and we learn that ‘God’s LOVE for mankind is so great that He gave us His only Begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life… “ in that you reject the Trinity, you have also rejected God’s love and that your religiosity is in vain because you have rejected the Son, whom God has sent.
You’re right in calling out heretical teachings that folks call ‘the Trinity’, because what they say is not what the Church teaches and has always taught. You’re wrong in that you reject a Dogma , based on the misunderstanding of others and propagate their lies, and adding to their lies with your own misunderstanding - and in that you tie yourself tightly to an opinion and that opinion becomes your identity.
There are things in the UPCI that are rock solid. There are also things that are flippy floppy. And most of folks who say they’re Bible believing, Bible practicing, simply aren’t. They’re focused on their own doctrine, that the doctrine becomes a god, and is becomes apart from God. Salvation is not a doctrine. Salvation is found in Christ God alone - who invites us into a perfect sabbath and a perfect Pascha.
As with most folks I have known in the organization - they read the text with a bias. And when they have an area not congruent with their doctrine that has became their god, they change the Holy Scriptures to match.
How versed are you in the Dogma of the Trinity - and specifically in Orthodox Theology? Have you actually examined the Nicene Creed - to see if what you are saying against the Faith and against the Dogma will stand? I doubt it. Most folks read with a bias, and do not evaluate… and in fear cling to things familiar because if you see the Truth which is preserved forever, and your version isn’t in agreement, then you realize you must move towards the Truth, or remain outside of Truth.
But, since your organization indoctrinates folks that they are pretty much the only ones with truth, and if you challenge their teachings, you will lose out on your cultural identity and in that their idea of salvation …
But what do I know, really? If God is above our thoughts, and we think we got God all figured out - then maybe we formed God after our own image, changing Him into something we can agree upon.
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) John 7:39
So no he’s not lieing or misinterpreting the scritpures
Hi Tbow, I don’t entirely agree with, nor am I entirely against your argument. But, the Disciples were breathed upon and were sent… and the scriptures inform us that the Apostles received the Holy Spirit… I don’t know enough to comment on some of the details your asserting here. But, there are certain some incorrect teachings presented here.