Just for clarification on the last part of the video: if you buy 7014 or 7024 rods to make “stronger welds” without the “rod oven issues” with 7018 you are actually likely imparting more hydrogen into the metal than if you used a 7018 that sat in a opened pack. 7014 and all other non “low hydrogen” rods do not have any built in resistance to moisture pickup. Rods like 6010-6011 have a high moisture content (and need it). Avoiding 7018 because of rod oven requirements will not solve hydrogen embrittlement. You need to look at 7018 as a tool that gives you the ability to safely weld higher strength steel without failure (provided the rods are dry). 7018s also weld better (start easier too) from a rod oven which is a bonus. Hopefully this makes that a bit clearer.
so basicly the 7018 needs to used with certain time while the 7024 and 7014 have no time limte or the other way around couse i got a d old 4 ton clamp captity bench vice with a high carbon steel and i think those rod could be my ticket to not have to re tread the screw holes to put the teeth plates back on
@@stovolbelinche3178 you may be better off using a helicoil. Just grind out the desired diameter. Clean it out really good and get you some epoxy high strength JB weld. Apply a thin layer with a q-tip. And then insert your helicoil. Then take a clean q-tip and wipe the inside of the threads to make sure that no epoxy seeped in there. You're definitely not wanting to plug the hole with welding rod you are definitely going to crack it. Assuming it is cast iron.
“Weld better from a rod oven, and start easier, too…” Precisely *Why* I tried to build a rod oven! (That, practice a lot more, and cheat with a $$$ welder having hot start and arc force!)
Greg, after watching a ton of your videos since I've found your channel I'm actually surprised that I find myself retaining more information from one to the other than I thought possible. So, apparently you can teach an old dog new tricks. 😁 God bless. 👍👍😊
Hey Greg, that was an extremely well researched and presented video. I have made comments on other videos, and you may recall that I’m the guy that had a 40 year career as an operator in a west coast nuclear plant. When I started in 1981, the two reactors were still under construction. I have crawled all over those plants into every single nook and cranny, and I have seen just about every weld there was to see from pipes to structural, and I have even climbed into the reactor vessel and coolant loops before we became operational, long before materials became radioactive. There were seismic braces that were bigger than a car (back in the day before fancy computers, things were built by overbuilding everything that was critical), and through the years, I was lucky enough to witness many modifications and pipe replacements that involved just about any welding process you can think of, including underwater in both the ocean and our spent fuel pools. That plant lived by the many codes, and our regulators watched us like a hawk for proper adherence to those codes, and everything had an unbelievable paper trail documenting every aspect of even the tiniest details! Seeing all those super high end welds, has actually made my learning to weld more difficult because those welds tend to be what I judge my welds by… I have and continue to struggle with not judging my welds by those standards, and you have really helped me realize that welds don’t always need to be pretty, to be good welds. 😂 I can tell you that given the biggest earthquake you can imagine, I would rather be at work surrounded by my family than home or downtown from a safety perspective, because at work we had overbuilt the plants, and anyone outside the plant, would probably be buried in rubble. Now I’m disabled and retired (the morale of that story is use your PPE, and don’t think it won’t happen to you, because that’s what will eventually get you, is long term chronic exposures!) Now I’m learning to weld as a hobby. No code work for me, but a wise person should do due diligence on anything important. But what I have found very interesting as a hobbyist, is your comments on how the characteristics of the rod will change as it burns up. Even when having difficulty striking an arc, I notice you and many others will move off the work piece, and do a quick firm tap on the table or nearby scrap to create a really quick arc flash, and then you quickly move the rod back to your work piece, and it seems that it is much easier to strike an arc, and I’m curious why/how that works? Some rods that are hard to start have a little graphite tip, that works well to initiate an arc, but I struggle on restarts despite taking the time to file the tip down to fresh rod, and even at that, it usually sticks bad enough that I have to release the rod from the stinger, and start that filing process again. That is very frustrating, but a necessary part of learning to stick weld, so any tips would be great. I was wondering if you can do a future video on tips to improve the rod’s characteristics (from the hobbyist perspective) before you start welding e.g. like baking it. I saw a video where a guy preheats the rod with a torch for a few seconds first, which seems harsh as there is no time for the rod’s core metal to heat up, and remove moisture adequately. As always, thanks for sharing your knowledge, and doing the research too.
Awesome comment. So the reason for the strike on the table and then back to welding is simple, the rod end gets a coating of molten flux/silicon on it, commonly referred to a glass ball. Because it insulates the rod tip, it’s impossible to get a arc to light through it on a restart. 6013 rods don’t have this which is why they are so easy to restart compared to 7018s. With a 7018 tapping it to a hard surface or scratching it against a surface cleans the glass ball off enough to expose the bare rod, thus making restarts possible. When I weld with 7018 right as I break the arc I flick the rod causing the molten ball on the end to drop off the rod. This leaves the rod end bare, and easier to start. The only issue with doing this is you have a ball of molten metal/flux flying off onto the floor and it could start a fire/burn something. Restarts with 7018 can be tough but they don’t have to be. I find that the flick method works good and afterwards I pinch the rod tip with my gloved fingers to crush the edges of the flux off. This exposes the tip real good and helps with the restart. No 7018 rod will start as easy on a restart as it does on the initial start (especially on one with a graphite tip). However with practice it will become easier. Think of it this way: 7018 is just harder to start, and just takes a bit more time to get right. It’s not you or because you suck at welding, it’s just that the window of what works is very small, and you haven’t mastered it yet. With that said some welders make it a lot easier to start 7018 because they have super high open circuit voltage. A great example would be my 100$ stick welder vs my dynasty, the 100$ stick welder is tough for even me to start the 7018. Hot start features and high open circuit voltage makes stick starts far easier. So equipment does play a role. Baking a 7018 in a oven does make It start easier, but it’s not because there is less water in the flux. 7018 will run fine with moisture in the flux, it’s just that it can’t weld high strength steel with high moisture content due to hydrogen embrittlement issues. A rod out of the oven at 300 degrees will effectively be less likely to stick because it will weld like it has more amperage run through it. Another way to look at it is if you took a 7018 1/8th and ran 170 amps through it I bet you wouldn’t be sticking it at the start. Obviously the rod will be tough to control (I even have a video where I did just that) but that’s why hot start exists, it boosts the amperage to make starts easy but it backs off so you don’t have a fire breathing dragon lol. If your machine doesn’t have hot start built in switching to a stick machine that does will help a lot. Doing a whole plate of restarts will also help a lot. It won’t be fun doing little 1in welds and restarting with 7018 for a whole 5x5 or 6x6 plate, but it will pay dividends. I will do another restart video upcoming since I have another stick welder I bought 😀
Spark testing gives a little guidance into high strength vs mild steel. That paired with a hardness file set can give tremendous confidence in using 60XX series for a job. A neodymium magnet also give clues to what the material is. All these combined are helpful. Comparison to a known coupon is very helpful. How magnetic is it? How does the spark look? How hard is the surface? If your unknown part is exactly the same, then 60XX would be fine.
I like your videos, I welded on pipeline in Arizona in 1990. The company we were welding for gave us a new 50 pound box each day when running 7018, 8018. Sometimes even 6010 and 8010. We got to take home all that leftover rod at the end of the day. Just could not have it on the truck.
Those rods would have been good for general use, but I totally get why many companies/people would just discard the rods after the day and not use them on a project. The issue with rebaking them, and the liability just isn’t worth it in many cases. Beats having a weld failure. Pipelines are not something that you want a failure on, not to mention are not often very easy to fix. Btw thanks for your help building America 😀
I can't believe that I am just now finding your channel. I've wanted this kind of information for years and somehow have missed it. Amazing content. Thank you for the effort to takes to make these videos and share this knowledge.
Thanks for the kind words. I am just happy to be able to help people out. The past 3-4 months has been a bit of a struggle since I sold my place and have been on the hunt for a new workshop. Once I get settled in a lot of good things will be coming 😀. I will actually be able to take on bigger projects like building vehicle frames, custom axles, etc.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Moving is miserable. Good luck with everything. I'll be watching the rest of your videos as I have time. A ton of good information there.
I'm the one that was having a extended conversation on one of your other videos and Facebook. A cheaper and more economical way of drying your rods is to use silica beads it will draw any moisture there is out of the rods. And if you get the color changing ones you can bake them to relieve them of the moisture and they'll change back to the color they were originally before saturated
The silica gel will work to a certain extent, however it wouldn’t meet low hydrogen code for proper storage. Also, I got your Facebook message, I will respond later tonight 👍
I’ve been in the RUclips welding rabbit hole for a couple of months and this is my favorite video yet! I could not figure out why people would go through all this trouble to run 7018. Makes perfect sense now. I’m excited to try out some fresh 7018s now to see what all the fuss is about! I have no reason to have code-worthy welds, but you’ve peaked my curiosity. Thanks!!
7018 can be trouble to learn, but you are rewarded with a weld that is very easy to clean the flux off of, a molten puddle that's easy to see, and it does multi pass welds really well. Most people don't weld high strength steel and technically need low hydrogen, however when you do vertical up and multi pass welds 7018 is far easier than 6013 (in my opinion). Not to mention it produces better penetration than 7014 (which in my testing seems to produce poor penetration). All rods can work for certain situations, my thoughts are as follows: 6013: great for sheet metal in 1/16th rods and for learning how to stick weld without a lot of frustration. Also great because they run on any polarity any welder. 6011: great to weld on less than perfect material, and on thin sheet metal with small rods. Easy to start with and a softer arc than 6010. I find it exceptionally good on 1/8th in material. 6010: Great first pass on poor material. Stupidly high penetration so if you can only do a single pass it will make the strongest weld on thicker material. Tons of control for welding gaps/holes shut because the weld solidifies so fast vs drips. Easy to weld out of position and for not having slag inclusions. 7018: Very smooth/clean welds, strong, very ductile. Far less to likely to fail in high vibration/impact vs many other rods. Easy to multi pass and easier to run out of position than 6013/7014. Can safely weld higher strength steel when stored correctly. 7014: good at making welds in all positions, good bead appearance. low penetration can help on thin metal and it will run on all polarities. 7024: Excellent flat position rod, that makes huge welds fast. Very good looking welds, and easy slag removal. Excellent penetration at higher amperages.
Flux core is quite the enigma. Most of what is used in industry is dual shield (gas shielded flux core) and that can suffer moisture pickup. The manufactures have different ways of dealing with that. Some have sealed wires that are rated for low moisture pickup, other ones require the wire spool to be baked like a 7018 rod. Conventional Gasless flux core wire doesn’t tend to pickup moisture like 7018 but it’s not probably considered low hydrogen. Manufactures recommendations are all over the place with flux core wires, it can be hard to keep it straight.
Many years ago I found I was accumulating a variety of rod around the shop. I cut down a waterheater with the foam jacket under the sheetmetal, made a stand with castors, a door out of the end which was also insulated, fabbed up some hinges and a clasp to make a rod oven for myself. Now my oven is heated with a cord through a gland and a thermometer through another in the door. But I only used a silicone heating pad made for a truck heating pad on the oil pan and it only gets my temperature up to 130 degrees. I did not know what commercial ovens ran at so I was going with keeping it above ambient (66 degrees in my heated shop) to lower the attraction of moisture. I have found it preserves the flux coating pretty well and some of my rod is decades old. Seems to help but I see now it is a far mark off what I need if I were to want to 'bake' it dry and also to store it according to standards. That old water heater with welded dividers stores a lot of rod and being a pack rat I shudder at throwing it out. Happily most of my welding is for brackets and devices that aren't critical. Learned a lot in your videos for sure.
My neighbor where I used to live was a welder for P&H cranes, think big overhead building cranes. He used a old fridge with a light bulb in the shop as a rod oven. Keep in mind he was pushing 80, and back in mid late 50s who knows what the welding standards were lol. From a realistic standpoint your setup would have likely kept 99.9% of moisture out of the rod, and you would never suffer a failure. For something like a high strength crane or a bridge with liability, 99.9% isn’t enough. Just using a 7018 over a 6010 or 7014 already imparts massively less hydrogen. Like I said, I wouldn’t worry too much about it, it’s going to be so close to moisture free that for all practical purposes it’s fine. Edit: here is a simple test video I made showing the difference in hydrogen between 6010 and 7018. Pretty crazy ruclips.net/video/v4yDFSSbP44/видео.htmlsi=Ap8ukOfX3CtznG_f
I'm starting to watch your arc welding series. Excellent videos. I hope you could clear up some of the confusion I have on welding rods. What is the advantages of using what rod? There must be reasons for so many different numbers. It appears that 7018 is king but other rods are still being produced, meaning there being sold/used. I am a self-taught home gamer with AC/DC arc, and a Miller 215.
I covered this in bits and pieces but never in a video. I definitely should do that in the future. Here is some info to help you: First off, believe it or not there used to be 3-4 times as many rods out there as what you commonly find now. Most of the common rods you find are AWS (American welding society) spec so that means they meet testing criteria (such calling a 7018 means it meets minimum testing requirements). There are a ton of different rods because each one has things they are good at and things they aren’t. Here is a quick rundown of common rods and what they are best at: 6010: good: welding on gaps, poor fit up, poor material, excellent control over penetration, great at welding uphill. Bad: won’t run on many modern welders because it requires high voltage, not the best for thin material (blows holes), takes more skill to run, makes rough looking beads. The slag is tough to remove. Weaker welds than 7018 6011: good: it’s like a softer arc 6010 that is easier to run. Runs on many welders, and AC. Bad: it has less penetration than 6010, is harder to weld with than most other rods, rough bead appearance. Weaker welds than 7018 6013: good: easy to start and restart. Makes decent looking beads with minimal skill. Runs on any polarity and on a/c. It and 6011 are arguably the best sheet metal rods. Bad: it is very prone to slag inclusions and weld beads that stick to one side of a joint. It runs in positions other than flat just ok. Less strong than 7018. 7014: good: it is stronger than 6013, Will run on pretty much any welder, makes decent looking welds with minimal skill, very easy to start/restart. Bad: very weak penetration, welding out of the flat position isn’t as easy as some rods, isn’t as strong as 7018. 7018: good: very strong, very easy to see molten puddle, welds uphill and overhead easier than many rods, very easy slag clean up, high metal deposition, and it can be used to weld high strength steel without hydrogen embrittlement. Bad: difficult to start the arc, and restart, easy to stick the rod while welding, requires more amperage than many other rods of the same diameter. Very poor at welding gaps/holes shut because the molten metal drips. For me personally I use 7018 for most jobs, and 6010 for specific jobs that don’t require strength. I will occasionally use 6011 on thin material in the field. I don’t weld sheet metal with stick (I use tig/mig/flux core) but if I did I would use 6013 for that. The truth is, most people gravitate towards 6010/11 and 7018 for most work simply because they can handle 98% of jobs you need to do with stick. They are unfortunately the hardest to run (7018 for starts and 6010/11 to make beads). They don’t make the best rods to learn on because they are frustrating at first. Hope that helped 😀
If you watch any videos of pipeline welders, they preheat with a propane weedburner torch on a 20lb tank. Something you hit on, but didn't really cover at all is that there are multiple types of 7018 with slightly different composition for different applications. Lincoln alone makes six different versions of it. 7018 is also not necessarily the correct electrode for a particular high strength steel. It might be better done with a higher strength electrode.
The preheat is to meet minimum temp prior to welding. With certain alloys welding on them at outside temp can cause weld failures due to how fast the weld cools. Chromoly is a great example of this. Preheat also will reduce the amount of hydrogen trapped in weld if a non low hydrogen rod is used. Heating may also be required to keep temps at a minimum level for interpass as well. You are 100% correct, 7018 is not a solution to every high strength steel. A low hydrogen rod is likely the best solution for welding higher strength steel, the question becomes which one. For a vast majority of what a person would run into 7018 properly stored will weld it and have high strength. Most of the higher strength alloys wouldn’t fail because any particular 7018 was used, they would fail because the person didn’t preheat to prevent cracking, they let the interpass temp reach too high, or they welded a high carbon content material that made the weld brittle. Thats why it pays to know what you’re welding on or failures will be likely.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg I'm a machinist by trade, with experience in heat treatment. I also weld. Tool steels really hate to be welded at the wrong temperature, or with the incorrect filler metal.
If you think it’s higher strength steel or high hardness avoid 6010/11. Both have a ton of hydrogen (moisture) in the flux. 7018 has better ductility and tensile strength, and won’t fail you if 6010/11 hasn’t. 6010/11 are great rods I use a lot for general repair work and on cheaper steel (especially out of position). Bust the 7018s out when you think the situation warrants it 👍
No problem. It’s confusing trying to figure all of the info out since so much that you hear about 7018 is based on opinion and not manufactures specifications and welding code in specific. At the end of the day it really comes down to using the rods out of a hermetically sealed pack (or baked out) for best performance and on anything with liability/higher strength steel. Outside of that you aren’t gaining anything using a 7014 or other rod over a 7018. Essentially 7018 is capable of things other (non low hydrogen) rods can’t do, not the other way around. I have a video coming out tomorrow that deals with 7014 vs 7018, and that will be worth watching because it shows without any doubt, 7018 is stronger than 7014, and that they aren’t equal. If you want to make strong stick welds being able to run 7018 is a must.
Glad you did. It’s a pretty complex subject and so few people understand the complete picture it’s very common to get 10 different answers from 10 different people regarding the info. Most of the time it’s an issue where people have correct info, just incomplete info.
Wuts up you tubers! I was at the welding place today and seen 6010 and the 7014 and I’m like ehhhh, I’m just keep rocking my 6011 if I want something to dig, otherwise keep rocking my 6013, 7018 but I did scoop some Excalibur rods ima try out for the first time since your always mentioning them
The Excalibur runs pretty good. Expect sticky/rough starts until you get a handle on it. Once you master the start on a 7018 you won’t have much trouble running any rod 😀
always seems strange that the pipeline guys do 6010 root with 7018 out in some cases. that 6010 weld has a lot of hydrogen from the cellulose burning and some of that must migrate into the 7018. seems like 7018 is great because it is so elastic when used to code. i guess 60xx rods used to be used in structural stuff back in the 50-60's. turns out structures in some california earthquake collapsed when the welds broke rather than stretched. that is when the lowhy regulations were added to structural codes.
Without a doubt a lot of mistakes were made to get modern welding code to where it is today. Makes sense that weld failures in earthquake zones changed structural code. I wish I knew more about how certain codes came to be. - good example was have been on a few ww2 navy ships for tours and I sure would like to see the code book on those lol. Probably more of “it’s stuck, it’s good enough” lol. As far as pipe, I looked into the reasons for 6010 root to 7018. My understanding is that the most common pipes used are not susceptible to hydrogen embrittlement, and the 6010 pass amounts to such a small amount of weld metal that it’s not likely to cause a issue. One thing I didn’t touch on the code end of things is many “codes” companies work off of are preexisting and prequalified procedures. Technically a company could write their procedure and through a process have it qualified, even if it goes against conventional code. That’s welding for you, there is literally no absolutes lol.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg north sweden welding channel shows how they do a downhill, open root, DCEN with 7018 and then 7018 all the way out DCEP. europe and australia do things much different than usa.
@@peetky8645 I will definitely take a look at that channel for the vid. I have run 7018 on vertical down before, and more than once accidentally ran it DCEN lol. I always find it interesting how different countries do things. I have heard the UK does 6013 as a root pass on pipe, which to me is crazy. Out of all the rods I find 6013 the most prone to undesirable weld defects out of position.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg speaking of ww2 welding. My dad was a farm & factory welder for 40+ years. His older coworker was a welder & boilermaker in the navy during ww2. He told him about one time they came around and got all the best welders and took them to test/work on some secret work they needed done. They took them to the workpiece which had everything other than the joint blocked off so you couldn't see what it was. They would adjust the machine for you and watched right over your shoulder as you welded with strange rods that they gave you (he said nothing he has seen before or since was like those rods......probobly super hazardous for your health). Anyway he said he saw enough of the workpiece to figure out they were welding on tank armor. In the factory they mostly used 6011 & 7018 for general repair but they never had a rod oven. Dad said if they were going to weld on something super critical they would lay the rods down on a steel workbench and heat up the workbench with a torch to give them a quickie bake. They were not bound by any codes but this was better than nothing.
@@yurimodin7333 that’s wild. Wonder what rod they were using. All sorts of crazy stuff gets tried during world wars. Not to mention all sorts of wild stuff gets put in fillers on rods. Asbestos was common on welding rods in the flux lol. Glad I didn’t have to make a living as a test puppet to stuff like that 😱
Interesting information ! except the moon is impossible to go to the Van allen radiation belt reaches temperatures over 15k degrees that ship would melt first
I agree. My hope is that people realize that avoiding using 7018 is not solution. That’s because other rods would present just as much or more risk on higher strength material due to likely containing even more hydrogen. So many people have told me in the past “just use 7014 on the stuff because it doesn’t have special requirements on storage” when the reality is that a 7018 in a box would probably impart less hydrogen and produce a stronger weld despite not being in a oven. Knowing that you can mitigate the hydrogen cracking problem is important, and fortunately they make 4lb sealed packages of rods that give you the best performance/safety margin without anything extra required.
I have had good luck (over 10 years) with E312-16 if not sure of metal type. i.e. tool and spring steel, bucket teeth etc. Expensive if not found on Ebay with seller listing as stainless steel rod. Similar to E309 but never used. Who knows?
Great suggestion. 312 is the welders secret to fixing stuff that has high carbon content. It will handle the carbon without becoming brittle, it has a very high tensile strength (aka good match for stronger steels), and it tends to work on most things. I always keep a few rods of 312 around for “what iffs” lol
I'm wondering if my 6011 and 7018 welding rods that I have had in a wood cabinet in my shop since 1992 are any good anymore? I used some about 5 years ago and they were still good.
So the rods will still likely work. What I find is when rods get rusty and sit out in the open they often run poorly. Flux will fall off of them, the beads can have weird appearances to them, etc. I wouldn’t go welding high strength steel with the 7018s, but for general low liability stuff if they run good I wouldn’t worry about it.
I was welding 2 days ago. I left my rod and stinger outside bc my entire welder lives in the yard. It's the size of a Kelvinator! I didn't weld yesterday bc it was raining. Today I picked that damp bastard up and struck up an arc and CONTINUED! IT was fine. It welded well with the one exception that I'd be buzzing along and all of a sudden no arc not stuck just nothing. I pull away and it fires back up... Later tonight I saw it when welding with my dry been stored loose on my basement for years. (My damp basement) the rod was grounding out on the flux not shooting on the base metal. As soon as I pulled out of the puddle the arc would re-establish and it was just like "game on" and continue as if nothing happened... So Greg, what's going on is this normal? Am I just running to close? This is happening at 90 amps and at 30 amps. I was running 1/16 and 3/16 7018 rods on Black pipe. (So really mild steel)
Interesting, if the arc goes out when welding but when you increase the distance the arc re-establishes what must be going on is the rod is somehow direct shorting to the material. Basically a arc only exists if there is a “arc gap” and if that gap closes for some reason (maybe the flux is somehow shorted to the area around the weld) the voltage will drop and the arc will extinguish. Upon breaking the short or increasing the gap it will reestablish itself. To me that sounds like a issue with the rod, however if there is a loose connection somewhere it could do the same thing.
So welding with a 7018 rod from a pack that has been opened for a couple days results in a weld that will fail at 90% of its designed load, 80%, 70%, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10? How much weaker are we talking?
That’s the problem, there is no absolute. If you were to weld high strength steel with a moisture absorbed 7018 it’s possible that there would be no reduction in absolute strength. If hydrogen induced cracking happened you could easily see a 50% reduction or more in strength and a massive loss in ductility. The probability of a crack/weld failure would be high, especially if the material is subject to high impact forces or significant strain. For normal mild steel it’s not really a concern, for ar500 and other high strength steels it would be a huge concern. In the near future I will be tackling welding high strength steels to see what happens when you do it wrong.
So stick is still relevant in structure welding (especially repair) however dual shield, metal core, and even specific self shielded flux core wires are used on site to build steel structures. If I had my choice I rather run a flux core wire simply because it’s far easier and faster on vertical ups.
From a standpoint of strength, properly stored 7018 rods will produce the strongest welds on common metals. That is out of all the common rods. If they are improperly stored they will perform poorer than properly stored rods, but they won’t perform poorer than non low hydrogen rods. If someone wants to use stick and make the strongest welds possible on common stuff around, a properly stored 7018 is the best bet. The second best bet is an improperly stored 7018. Then a 7014,7024, other non low hydrogen 70 series rods.
So I personally store left over rods in a airtight container with desiccant. This doesn’t actually meet code for proper storage, the reason is somewhat simple. The 7018 flux can absorb moisture from the air, much like desiccant does. If you put a “wet” 7018 in a airtight container with desiccant, the desiccant will not pull moisture out of the rod just as two packs of desiccant will not pull moisture from one another. The desiccant will only prevent more moisture from being absorbed into 7018. The truth is for most jobs even a improperly stored 7018 will put less hydrogen in a weld than all other non low hydrogen rods, so you’re still safer using a 7018 over say a 7014 for a job that could have hydrogen embrittlement.
Just wondering if you use Mig welding and cause you use C25 as a shield do you still have problems with hydrogen penetration. Recently took a trip to Northern Tool and picked up some 7018 by ESAB noticed the had a small sealed 4lb package for 25 dollars and a screw on 5lb package for 32 dollars. I bought the larger cause of convenience. I guess if I had to use this product I would have to heat in the oven at 350 for 2 hours before use and only heat what you will use on the project.
So hard wire Mig is a very low risk of hydrogen embrittlement since the wire doesn’t absorb moisture. The downside to it is welding higher strength steel generally means welding thick steel, and short arc MiG has poor penetration performance on thick steel. Spray arc will work for that however most home hobby welders aren’t capable of voltage high enough to “spray”. With most home hobby welders using flux core will give them great penetration however some flux core wire is specifically designed not to absorb moisture into the flux (flux core is a hollow tube with flux, if the tube isn’t sealed perfectly hydrogen can absorb into it, albeit far less than a stick rod). I use those sealed packages of 7018 by esab (7018 prime). Rather than running a rod oven 24-7 I just open a fresh pack, weld the job, and store the rods in a box with desiccant. I will then use those rods for non critical work, and use a new pack for critical work. It works out well for me. The biggest issue with the hydrogen embrittlement is when welding higher strength alloy steel. If you are welding mild steel you likely will never see the issue pop up, since it would pop up (even worse) if you welded it with 6010/11/13, all those rods that impart way more hydrogen into a weld than 7018. Per code you need to bake 7018 at much higher temps than 350 as a “bake off” to get all the hydrogen out so they meet code (generally 450-550 depending on manufacture). Realistically 350 in a oven for 2 hours would knock out most of the hydrogen, and I doubt you’re building nuke plant boilers, so you should be ok lol. Hopefully that helps you out. Edit: try the esab 7018 prime next time you need rods. They have a graphite tip that really makes starts easy and they help prevent starting porosity with 7018. I personally run those all the time and like them a lot.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg thank for the long in debt reply. I'm somewhat new to welding. Recently retired and thought I would learn how. I've had a Lincoln I think you call them tombstone welders for about 10 years and never really used it. I went ahead upon retiring picked up a Miller 220 multi in order to learn mig and stick and later after I feel confident I will tackle tig. I have burnt up about 3lbs of 6013 learning starts and stops and did some lap as well. Now I've been running some 7018 to see the difference. I have learned if you have a glove on with a new rod of 7018 it's easier to start if you grab the rod about 4 inches back I think I noticed you doing that. I have had trouble seeing the puddle even though I have a Lincoln 3350 hood but recently that has cleared up after adjusting the darkness a little more open. I'm not going to be mig welding with a 3 phase unit so looks like I will be using 7018 if I need to weld up a trailer tong or something that you can't afford to fail. By the way thanks you for what you do in pointing us hobbyist in the right direction. We need all the help we can get.
@@michaelmusson3593 the 220 is a great welder to learn on and it makes it real easy with the auto set. 7018 is definitely a different animal to 6013. I like the way 6013 starts/restarts but I find 7018 runs a smoother bead/less slag inclusions. You likely have seen me help start a rod with help from my other hand, sometimes to do things like that without even thinking of it. On a new rod it helps, especially with smaller diameter rods that flex/shake a lot. What shade are you running on that 3350? I run the same hood and it’s the best for clarity in my opinion. With stick I tend to run a shade 10 or 11. If you wear reading glasses or your near sight is a bit rough they make slip in “cheater” lenses for the 3350 that work well. I am on the cusp of needing a low powered one, what holds me back is I have enough muscle memory that I can still make good welds without being able to see what’s going on lol. If I was starting out now I would have to use a cheater lens no doubt. Don’t be afraid to take a file or a awl and score some lines where the weld needs to be after you tacked the pieces up, it will help with visibility for sure. Thanks again for the words regarding my work. I am happy to help, and it’s a good feeling to know all the information I have in my head is being used by other people trying to learn a new skill 😀.
Since I got my Everlast 200STi last week, I've been running 1/8 6013 over and over. I've avoided picking up 7018 because of not wanting to deal with a rod oven. It sounds like you are saying for a home hobbyist, it's okay to leave them stored in a sealed container for normal non hardened steel? By the way, it's going good! Learned I wasn't holding a tight enough arc, and was using too low of amperage, but it's getting better! Do you think I should try 7018, or something else first?
Glad to hear things are going well 😀. So what you talked about is pretty much accurate. If you were to weld any high strength steel with any rod besides 7018 you are imparting hydrogen into the material (especially 6010/11). So using different rods than 7018 will not solve the hydrogen problem, which is what most people are confused about. The storage requirements of 7018 allow a person to safely weld high strength steel if they are met. Using a improperly stored 7018 won’t cause hydrogen embrittlement any more than running 6013 or 7014 instead. As a matter of fact many 7018s have a moisture resistant flux that will probably impart less hydrogen than other common rods despite being stored improperly. Using properly stored (rod oven) or new in sealed pack 7018s will not cause hydrogen embrittlement on high strength steel, which is something that no other common store bought rod can do. So the general thought is use 7018s as you would a normal rod, just make sure you keep them in the factory container, and only pull out what you need as you need it. If you are welding on a known (or suspected) high strength material use only rods from a rod oven or new from a sealed pack. That way you know the weld will not suffer from hydrogen embrittlement. Switching to any other rod will not solve that issue like I said. The great thing is for 16-25$ you can keep a 3-5lbs factory sealed container of new rods that are 100% dry and ready to rock on higher strength parts (no rod oven needed). Only bust them open when you know you need them. I personally like Esabs 7018-prime, and those come in 4lb sealed packages. I have heard atom arc 7018 is also really good, and those come in a sealed container. My suggestion is pickup 7018 and get good with it. It’s a great rod and once you get used to it you won’t regret running it. It has less of a tendency of slag inclusion (especially at the start) than 6013. It also makes smoother beads, the puddle is easier to see, and I find it welds out of position way better. The only thing that’s hard with it is the starts/restarts. If you watch my 7018 videos you’ll realize that’s no issue at all. The predictability of the 7018 is what I like. The penetration is consistent, so is everything else when run right. 6013 is a great place to start, then go to 7018. Once you can run 7018 well going to 6010 or 6011 is good because they work great for poor fit up. Basically another tool for the toolbox. 😀
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Thanks for taking the time to explain things to me. I'm going to pick up a small pack of 7018, and keep them in a resealable container just for practice and some non critical welds. If I find myself ever doing anything structural, or hardened steel I'll get a fresh pack 👍
The best option for this is the esab 7018 prime. It comes in small 4lb packs and meet spec for low hydrogen out of the package. I don’t use a rod oven any more because I just use a brand new pack for a job. Once I am done I put the left over rods in a sealed container and use those for non critical work.
Just for clarification on the last part of the video: if you buy 7014 or 7024 rods to make “stronger welds” without the “rod oven issues” with 7018 you are actually likely imparting more hydrogen into the metal than if you used a 7018 that sat in a opened pack. 7014 and all other non “low hydrogen” rods do not have any built in resistance to moisture pickup. Rods like 6010-6011 have a high moisture content (and need it). Avoiding 7018 because of rod oven requirements will not solve hydrogen embrittlement. You need to look at 7018 as a tool that gives you the ability to safely weld higher strength steel without failure (provided the rods are dry). 7018s also weld better (start easier too) from a rod oven which is a bonus. Hopefully this makes that a bit clearer.
so basicly the 7018 needs to used with certain time while the 7024 and 7014 have no time limte or the other way around couse i got a d old 4 ton clamp captity bench vice with a high carbon steel and i think those rod could be my ticket to not have to re tread the screw holes to put the teeth plates back on
@@stovolbelinche3178 you may be better off using a helicoil. Just grind out the desired diameter. Clean it out really good and get you some epoxy high strength JB weld. Apply a thin layer with a q-tip. And then insert your helicoil. Then take a clean q-tip and wipe the inside of the threads to make sure that no epoxy seeped in there. You're definitely not wanting to plug the hole with welding rod you are definitely going to crack it. Assuming it is cast iron.
“Weld better from a rod oven, and start easier, too…”
Precisely *Why* I tried to build a rod oven! (That, practice a lot more, and cheat with a $$$ welder having hot start and arc force!)
Greg, after watching a ton of your videos since I've found your channel I'm actually surprised that I find myself retaining more information from one to the other than I thought possible. So, apparently you can teach an old dog new tricks. 😁 God bless. 👍👍😊
I always wondered about different metals and weld characteristics. This helped.
Hey Greg, that was an extremely well researched and presented video. I have made comments on other videos, and you may recall that I’m the guy that had a 40 year career as an operator in a west coast nuclear plant. When I started in 1981, the two reactors were still under construction. I have crawled all over those plants into every single nook and cranny, and I have seen just about every weld there was to see from pipes to structural, and I have even climbed into the reactor vessel and coolant loops before we became operational, long before materials became radioactive. There were seismic braces that were bigger than a car (back in the day before fancy computers, things were built by overbuilding everything that was critical), and through the years, I was lucky enough to witness many modifications and pipe replacements that involved just about any welding process you can think of, including underwater in both the ocean and our spent fuel pools. That plant lived by the many codes, and our regulators watched us like a hawk for proper adherence to those codes, and everything had an unbelievable paper trail documenting every aspect of even the tiniest details!
Seeing all those super high end welds, has actually made my learning to weld more difficult because those welds tend to be what I judge my welds by… I have and continue to struggle with not judging my welds by those standards, and you have really helped me realize that welds don’t always need to be pretty, to be good welds. 😂
I can tell you that given the biggest earthquake you can imagine, I would rather be at work surrounded by my family than home or downtown from a safety perspective, because at work we had overbuilt the plants, and anyone outside the plant, would probably be buried in rubble.
Now I’m disabled and retired (the morale of that story is use your PPE, and don’t think it won’t happen to you, because that’s what will eventually get you, is long term chronic exposures!) Now I’m learning to weld as a hobby. No code work for me, but a wise person should do due diligence on anything important.
But what I have found very interesting as a hobbyist, is your comments on how the characteristics of the rod will change as it burns up. Even when having difficulty striking an arc, I notice you and many others will move off the work piece, and do a quick firm tap on the table or nearby scrap to create a really quick arc flash, and then you quickly move the rod back to your work piece, and it seems that it is much easier to strike an arc, and I’m curious why/how that works?
Some rods that are hard to start have a little graphite tip, that works well to initiate an arc, but I struggle on restarts despite taking the time to file the tip down to fresh rod, and even at that, it usually sticks bad enough that I have to release the rod from the stinger, and start that filing process again. That is very frustrating, but a necessary part of learning to stick weld, so any tips would be great.
I was wondering if you can do a future video on tips to improve the rod’s characteristics (from the hobbyist perspective) before you start welding e.g. like baking it. I saw a video where a guy preheats the rod with a torch for a few seconds first, which seems harsh as there is no time for the rod’s core metal to heat up, and remove moisture adequately.
As always, thanks for sharing your knowledge, and doing the research too.
Awesome comment. So the reason for the strike on the table and then back to welding is simple, the rod end gets a coating of molten flux/silicon on it, commonly referred to a glass ball. Because it insulates the rod tip, it’s impossible to get a arc to light through it on a restart. 6013 rods don’t have this which is why they are so easy to restart compared to 7018s. With a 7018 tapping it to a hard surface or scratching it against a surface cleans the glass ball off enough to expose the bare rod, thus making restarts possible. When I weld with 7018 right as I break the arc I flick the rod causing the molten ball on the end to drop off the rod. This leaves the rod end bare, and easier to start. The only issue with doing this is you have a ball of molten metal/flux flying off onto the floor and it could start a fire/burn something.
Restarts with 7018 can be tough but they don’t have to be. I find that the flick method works good and afterwards I pinch the rod tip with my gloved fingers to crush the edges of the flux off. This exposes the tip real good and helps with the restart. No 7018 rod will start as easy on a restart as it does on the initial start (especially on one with a graphite tip). However with practice it will become easier. Think of it this way: 7018 is just harder to start, and just takes a bit more time to get right. It’s not you or because you suck at welding, it’s just that the window of what works is very small, and you haven’t mastered it yet. With that said some welders make it a lot easier to start 7018 because they have super high open circuit voltage. A great example would be my 100$ stick welder vs my dynasty, the 100$ stick welder is tough for even me to start the 7018. Hot start features and high open circuit voltage makes stick starts far easier. So equipment does play a role.
Baking a 7018 in a oven does make
It start easier, but it’s not because there is less water in the flux. 7018 will run fine with moisture in the flux, it’s just that it can’t weld high strength steel with high moisture content due to hydrogen embrittlement issues. A rod out of the oven at 300 degrees will effectively be less likely to stick because it will weld like it has more amperage run through it. Another way to look at it is if you took a 7018 1/8th and ran 170 amps through it I bet you wouldn’t be sticking it at the start. Obviously the rod will be tough to control (I even have a video where I did just that) but that’s why hot start exists, it boosts the amperage to make starts easy but it backs off so you don’t have a fire breathing dragon lol.
If your machine doesn’t have hot start built in switching to a stick machine that does will help a lot. Doing a whole plate of restarts will also help a lot. It won’t be fun doing little 1in welds and restarting with 7018 for a whole 5x5 or 6x6 plate, but it will pay dividends. I will do another restart video upcoming since I have another stick welder I bought 😀
Spark testing gives a little guidance into high strength vs mild steel. That paired with a hardness file set can give tremendous confidence in using 60XX series for a job. A neodymium magnet also give clues to what the material is. All these combined are helpful. Comparison to a known coupon is very helpful. How magnetic is it? How does the spark look? How hard is the surface? If your unknown part is exactly the same, then 60XX would be fine.
I like your videos, I welded on pipeline in Arizona in 1990. The company we were welding for gave us a new 50 pound box each day when running 7018, 8018. Sometimes even 6010 and 8010. We got to take home all that leftover rod at the end of the day. Just could not have it on the truck.
Those rods would have been good for general use, but I totally get why many companies/people would just discard the rods after the day and not use them on a project. The issue with rebaking them, and the liability just isn’t worth it in many cases. Beats having a weld failure. Pipelines are not something that you want a failure on, not to mention are not often very easy to fix. Btw thanks for your help building America 😀
I can't believe that I am just now finding your channel. I've wanted this kind of information for years and somehow have missed it. Amazing content. Thank you for the effort to takes to make these videos and share this knowledge.
Thanks for the kind words. I am just happy to be able to help people out. The past 3-4 months has been a bit of a struggle since I sold my place and have been on the hunt for a new workshop. Once I get settled in a lot of good things will be coming 😀. I will actually be able to take on bigger projects like building vehicle frames, custom axles, etc.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Moving is miserable. Good luck with everything. I'll be watching the rest of your videos as I have time. A ton of good information there.
I'm the one that was having a extended conversation on one of your other videos and Facebook. A cheaper and more economical way of drying your rods is to use silica beads it will draw any moisture there is out of the rods. And if you get the color changing ones you can bake them to relieve them of the moisture and they'll change back to the color they were originally before saturated
The silica gel will work to a certain extent, however it wouldn’t meet low hydrogen code for proper storage. Also, I got your Facebook message, I will respond later tonight 👍
I’ve been in the RUclips welding rabbit hole for a couple of months and this is my favorite video yet! I could not figure out why people would go through all this trouble to run 7018. Makes perfect sense now. I’m excited to try out some fresh 7018s now to see what all the fuss is about! I have no reason to have code-worthy welds, but you’ve peaked my curiosity. Thanks!!
7018 can be trouble to learn, but you are rewarded with a weld that is very easy to clean the flux off of, a molten puddle that's easy to see, and it does multi pass welds really well. Most people don't weld high strength steel and technically need low hydrogen, however when you do vertical up and multi pass welds 7018 is far easier than 6013 (in my opinion). Not to mention it produces better penetration than 7014 (which in my testing seems to produce poor penetration). All rods can work for certain situations, my thoughts are as follows: 6013: great for sheet metal in 1/16th rods and for learning how to stick weld without a lot of frustration. Also great because they run on any polarity any welder. 6011: great to weld on less than perfect material, and on thin sheet metal with small rods. Easy to start with and a softer arc than 6010. I find it exceptionally good on 1/8th in material. 6010: Great first pass on poor material. Stupidly high penetration so if you can only do a single pass it will make the strongest weld on thicker material. Tons of control for welding gaps/holes shut because the weld solidifies so fast vs drips. Easy to weld out of position and for not having slag inclusions. 7018: Very smooth/clean welds, strong, very ductile. Far less to likely to fail in high vibration/impact vs many other rods. Easy to multi pass and easier to run out of position than 6013/7014. Can safely weld higher strength steel when stored correctly. 7014: good at making welds in all positions, good bead appearance. low penetration can help on thin metal and it will run on all polarities. 7024: Excellent flat position rod, that makes huge welds fast. Very good looking welds, and easy slag removal. Excellent penetration at higher amperages.
Very interesting! I suppose that flux core welding also has its own set of codes.
Flux core is quite the enigma. Most of what is used in industry is dual shield (gas shielded flux core) and that can suffer moisture pickup. The manufactures have different ways of dealing with that. Some have sealed wires that are rated for low moisture pickup, other ones require the wire spool to be baked like a 7018 rod. Conventional Gasless flux core wire doesn’t tend to pickup moisture like 7018 but it’s not probably considered low hydrogen. Manufactures recommendations are all over the place with flux core wires, it can be hard to keep it straight.
Many years ago I found I was accumulating a variety of rod around the shop. I cut down a waterheater with the foam jacket under the sheetmetal, made a stand with castors, a door out of the end which was also insulated, fabbed up some hinges and a clasp to make a rod oven for myself. Now my oven is heated with a cord through a gland and a thermometer through another in the door. But I only used a silicone heating pad made for a truck heating pad on the oil pan and it only gets my temperature up to 130 degrees. I did not know what commercial ovens ran at so I was going with keeping it above ambient (66 degrees in my heated shop) to lower the attraction of moisture. I have found it preserves the flux coating pretty well and some of my rod is decades old. Seems to help but I see now it is a far mark off what I need if I were to want to 'bake' it dry and also to store it according to standards. That old water heater with welded dividers stores a lot of rod and being a pack rat I shudder at throwing it out. Happily most of my welding is for brackets and devices that aren't critical. Learned a lot in your videos for sure.
My neighbor where I used to live was a welder for P&H cranes, think big overhead building cranes. He used a old fridge with a light bulb in the shop as a rod oven. Keep in mind he was pushing 80, and back in mid late 50s who knows what the welding standards were lol. From a realistic standpoint your setup would have likely kept 99.9% of moisture out of the rod, and you would never suffer a failure. For something like a high strength crane or a bridge with liability, 99.9% isn’t enough. Just using a 7018 over a 6010 or 7014 already imparts massively less hydrogen. Like I said, I wouldn’t worry too much about it, it’s going to be so close to moisture free that for all practical purposes it’s fine.
Edit: here is a simple test video I made showing the difference in hydrogen between 6010 and 7018. Pretty crazy ruclips.net/video/v4yDFSSbP44/видео.htmlsi=Ap8ukOfX3CtznG_f
I can listen to you all day happy learning this on rods and material
Glad you found the video useful 😀. Thanks for putting in effort to better your skills/knowledge 😀
I'm starting to watch your arc welding series. Excellent videos. I hope you could clear up some of the confusion I have on welding rods. What is the advantages of using what rod? There must be reasons for so many different numbers. It appears that 7018 is king but other rods are still being produced, meaning there being sold/used. I am a self-taught home gamer with AC/DC arc, and a Miller 215.
I covered this in bits and pieces but never in a video. I definitely should do that in the future. Here is some info to help you:
First off, believe it or not there used to be 3-4 times as many rods out there as what you commonly find now. Most of the common rods you find are AWS (American welding society) spec so that means they meet testing criteria (such calling a 7018 means it meets minimum testing requirements). There are a ton of different rods because each one has things they are good at and things they aren’t. Here is a quick rundown of common rods and what they are best at:
6010: good: welding on gaps, poor fit up, poor material, excellent control over penetration, great at welding uphill. Bad: won’t run on many modern welders because it requires high voltage, not the best for thin material (blows holes), takes more skill to run, makes rough looking beads. The slag is tough to remove. Weaker welds than 7018
6011: good: it’s like a softer arc 6010 that is easier to run. Runs on many welders, and AC. Bad: it has less penetration than 6010, is harder to weld with than most other rods, rough bead appearance. Weaker welds than 7018
6013: good: easy to start and restart. Makes decent looking beads with minimal skill. Runs on any polarity and on a/c. It and 6011 are arguably the best sheet metal rods. Bad: it is very prone to slag inclusions and weld beads that stick to one side of a joint. It runs in positions other than flat just ok. Less strong than 7018.
7014: good: it is stronger than 6013, Will run on pretty much any welder, makes decent looking welds with minimal skill, very easy to start/restart. Bad: very weak penetration, welding out of the flat position isn’t as easy as some rods, isn’t as strong as 7018.
7018: good: very strong, very easy to see molten puddle, welds uphill and overhead easier than many rods, very easy slag clean up, high metal deposition, and it can be used to weld high strength steel without hydrogen embrittlement. Bad: difficult to start the arc, and restart, easy to stick the rod while welding, requires more amperage than many other rods of the same diameter. Very poor at welding gaps/holes shut because the molten metal drips.
For me personally I use 7018 for most jobs, and 6010 for specific jobs that don’t require strength. I will occasionally use 6011 on thin material in the field. I don’t weld sheet metal with stick (I use tig/mig/flux core) but if I did I would use 6013 for that. The truth is, most people gravitate towards 6010/11 and 7018 for most work simply because they can handle 98% of jobs you need to do with stick. They are unfortunately the hardest to run (7018 for starts and 6010/11 to make beads). They don’t make the best rods to learn on because they are frustrating at first.
Hope that helped 😀
If you watch any videos of pipeline welders, they preheat with a propane weedburner torch on a 20lb tank.
Something you hit on, but didn't really cover at all is that there are multiple types of 7018 with slightly different composition for different applications. Lincoln alone makes six different versions of it. 7018 is also not necessarily the correct electrode for a particular high strength steel. It might be better done with a higher strength electrode.
The preheat is to meet minimum temp prior to welding. With certain alloys welding on them at outside temp can cause weld failures due to how fast the weld cools. Chromoly is a great example of this. Preheat also will reduce the amount of hydrogen trapped in weld if a non low hydrogen rod is used. Heating may also be required to keep temps at a minimum level for interpass as well.
You are 100% correct, 7018 is not a solution to every high strength steel. A low hydrogen rod is likely the best solution for welding higher strength steel, the question becomes which one. For a vast majority of what a person would run into 7018 properly stored will weld it and have high strength. Most of the higher strength alloys wouldn’t fail because any particular 7018 was used, they would fail because the person didn’t preheat to prevent cracking, they let the interpass temp reach too high, or they welded a high carbon content material that made the weld brittle. Thats why it pays to know what you’re welding on or failures will be likely.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg I'm a machinist by trade, with experience in heat treatment. I also weld. Tool steels really hate to be welded at the wrong temperature, or with the incorrect filler metal.
thanks for this info Greg. I will think twice before I use 6010 or 6011 on unknown steels in liability environs. (I am home hobbyest).
If you think it’s higher strength steel or high hardness avoid 6010/11. Both have a ton of hydrogen (moisture) in the flux. 7018 has better ductility and tensile strength, and won’t fail you if 6010/11 hasn’t. 6010/11 are great rods I use a lot for general repair work and on cheaper steel (especially out of position). Bust the 7018s out when you think the situation warrants it 👍
Thank you very much for this super informative video. Got around all relevant details, and saved me from doing all this research myself.
No problem. It’s confusing trying to figure all of the info out since so much that you hear about 7018 is based on opinion and not manufactures specifications and welding code in specific. At the end of the day it really comes down to using the rods out of a hermetically sealed pack (or baked out) for best performance and on anything with liability/higher strength steel. Outside of that you aren’t gaining anything using a 7014 or other rod over a 7018. Essentially 7018 is capable of things other (non low hydrogen) rods can’t do, not the other way around.
I have a video coming out tomorrow that deals with 7014 vs 7018, and that will be worth watching because it shows without any doubt, 7018 is stronger than 7014, and that they aren’t equal. If you want to make strong stick welds being able to run 7018 is a must.
I found the video utterly fascinating!
Glad you did. It’s a pretty complex subject and so few people understand the complete picture it’s very common to get 10 different answers from 10 different people regarding the info. Most of the time it’s an issue where people have correct info, just incomplete info.
Wuts up you tubers! I was at the welding place today and seen 6010 and the 7014 and I’m like ehhhh, I’m just keep rocking my 6011 if I want something to dig, otherwise keep rocking my 6013, 7018 but I did scoop some Excalibur rods ima try out for the first time since your always mentioning them
The Excalibur runs pretty good. Expect sticky/rough starts until you get a handle on it. Once you master the start on a 7018 you won’t have much trouble running any rod 😀
This is very useful information. Keep up these types of videos.
good subject, good explanation.
Great video
Thanks, glad it had some useful info for you 😀
always seems strange that the pipeline guys do 6010 root with 7018 out in some cases. that 6010 weld has a lot of hydrogen from the cellulose burning and some of that must migrate into the 7018. seems like 7018 is great because it is so elastic when used to code. i guess 60xx rods used to be used in structural stuff back in the 50-60's. turns out structures in some california earthquake collapsed when the welds broke rather than stretched. that is when the lowhy regulations were added to structural codes.
Without a doubt a lot of mistakes were made to get modern welding code to where it is today. Makes sense that weld failures in earthquake zones changed structural code. I wish I knew more about how certain codes came to be. - good example was have been on a few ww2 navy ships for tours and I sure would like to see the code book on those lol. Probably more of “it’s stuck, it’s good enough” lol.
As far as pipe, I looked into the reasons for 6010 root to 7018. My understanding is that the most common pipes used are not susceptible to hydrogen embrittlement, and the 6010 pass amounts to such a small amount of weld metal that it’s not likely to cause a issue. One thing I didn’t touch on the code end of things is many “codes” companies work off of are preexisting and prequalified procedures. Technically a company could write their procedure and through a process have it qualified, even if it goes against conventional code. That’s welding for you, there is literally no absolutes lol.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg north sweden welding channel shows how they do a downhill, open root, DCEN with 7018 and then 7018 all the way out DCEP. europe and australia do things much different than usa.
@@peetky8645 I will definitely take a look at that channel for the vid. I have run 7018 on vertical down before, and more than once accidentally ran it DCEN lol. I always find it interesting how different countries do things. I have heard the UK does 6013 as a root pass on pipe, which to me is crazy. Out of all the rods I find 6013 the most prone to undesirable weld defects out of position.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg speaking of ww2 welding. My dad was a farm & factory welder for 40+ years. His older coworker was a welder & boilermaker in the navy during ww2. He told him about one time they came around and got all the best welders and took them to test/work on some secret work they needed done. They took them to the workpiece which had everything other than the joint blocked off so you couldn't see what it was. They would adjust the machine for you and watched right over your shoulder as you welded with strange rods that they gave you (he said nothing he has seen before or since was like those rods......probobly super hazardous for your health). Anyway he said he saw enough of the workpiece to figure out they were welding on tank armor. In the factory they mostly used 6011 & 7018 for general repair but they never had a rod oven. Dad said if they were going to weld on something super critical they would lay the rods down on a steel workbench and heat up the workbench with a torch to give them a quickie bake. They were not bound by any codes but this was better than nothing.
@@yurimodin7333 that’s wild. Wonder what rod they were using. All sorts of crazy stuff gets tried during world wars. Not to mention all sorts of wild stuff gets put in fillers on rods. Asbestos was common on welding rods in the flux lol. Glad I didn’t have to make a living as a test puppet to stuff like that 😱
Thank u Greg really appreciate all ur knowledge God Bless🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
No problem, I am glad the info helped you out 😀
A friend of mine asked me to weld up some holes on his truck chassis 😮 7018 it is!
Interesting information ! except the moon is impossible to go to the Van allen radiation belt reaches temperatures over 15k degrees that ship would melt first
would use 7018 to code for structural work or anything over the road as a home welder.
I agree. My hope is that people realize that avoiding using 7018 is not solution. That’s because other rods would present just as much or more risk on higher strength material due to likely containing even more hydrogen. So many people have told me in the past “just use 7014 on the stuff because it doesn’t have special requirements on storage” when the reality is that a 7018 in a box would probably impart less hydrogen and produce a stronger weld despite not being in a oven. Knowing that you can mitigate the hydrogen cracking problem is important, and fortunately they make 4lb sealed packages of rods that give you the best performance/safety margin without anything extra required.
I have had good luck (over 10 years) with E312-16 if not sure of metal type. i.e. tool and spring steel, bucket teeth etc. Expensive if not found on Ebay with seller listing as stainless steel rod. Similar to E309 but never used. Who knows?
Great suggestion. 312 is the welders secret to fixing stuff that has high carbon content. It will handle the carbon without becoming brittle, it has a very high tensile strength (aka good match for stronger steels), and it tends to work on most things. I always keep a few rods of 312 around for “what iffs” lol
Great informative video. Thanks for sharing.
No problem, I am happy to help people out 😀
Wow a lot of information I had no clue on tha ks
Thanks for sharing. Cheers.
10:25 i may not be certificated, i am definitely certified crazy.
I'm wondering if my 6011 and 7018 welding rods that I have had in a wood cabinet in my shop since 1992 are any good anymore? I used some about 5 years ago and they were still good.
So the rods will still likely work. What I find is when rods get rusty and sit out in the open they often run poorly. Flux will fall off of them, the beads can have weird appearances to them, etc. I wouldn’t go welding high strength steel with the 7018s, but for general low liability stuff if they run good I wouldn’t worry about it.
So 7018 for welding mild steel in the home work shop should really not be an issue.
I was welding 2 days ago. I left my rod and stinger outside bc my entire welder lives in the yard. It's the size of a Kelvinator! I didn't weld yesterday bc it was raining. Today I picked that damp bastard up and struck up an arc and CONTINUED! IT was fine. It welded well with the one exception that I'd be buzzing along and all of a sudden no arc not stuck just nothing. I pull away and it fires back up... Later tonight I saw it when welding with my dry been stored loose on my basement for years. (My damp basement) the rod was grounding out on the flux not shooting on the base metal. As soon as I pulled out of the puddle the arc would re-establish and it was just like "game on" and continue as if nothing happened...
So Greg, what's going on is this normal? Am I just running to close? This is happening at 90 amps and at 30 amps. I was running 1/16 and 3/16 7018 rods on Black pipe. (So really mild steel)
Interesting, if the arc goes out when welding but when you increase the distance the arc re-establishes what must be going on is the rod is somehow direct shorting to the material. Basically a arc only exists if there is a “arc gap” and if that gap closes for some reason (maybe the flux is somehow shorted to the area around the weld) the voltage will drop and the arc will extinguish. Upon breaking the short or increasing the gap it will reestablish itself. To me that sounds like a issue with the rod, however if there is a loose connection somewhere it could do the same thing.
So welding with a 7018 rod from a pack that has been opened for a couple days results in a weld that will fail at 90% of its designed load, 80%, 70%, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10? How much weaker are we talking?
That’s the problem, there is no absolute. If you were to weld high strength steel with a moisture absorbed 7018 it’s possible that there would be no reduction in absolute strength. If hydrogen induced cracking happened you could easily see a 50% reduction or more in strength and a massive loss in ductility. The probability of a crack/weld failure would be high, especially if the material is subject to high impact forces or significant strain.
For normal mild steel it’s not really a concern, for ar500 and other high strength steels it would be a huge concern. In the near future I will be tackling welding high strength steels to see what happens when you do it wrong.
I thought most outdoor structure welding is done with stick. But im sure many bridge components are put together in a shop when able.
So stick is still relevant in structure welding (especially repair) however dual shield, metal core, and even specific self shielded flux core wires are used on site to build steel structures. If I had my choice I rather run a flux core wire simply because it’s far easier and faster on vertical ups.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg definitely makes sense
Not necessarily welding “to code,” but wanting to take as few chances as possible?
Like you don’t want the weldment to give up easily?
From a standpoint of strength, properly stored 7018 rods will produce the strongest welds on common metals. That is out of all the common rods. If they are improperly stored they will perform poorer than properly stored rods, but they won’t perform poorer than non low hydrogen rods. If someone wants to use stick and make the strongest welds possible on common stuff around, a properly stored 7018 is the best bet. The second best bet is an improperly stored 7018. Then a 7014,7024, other non low hydrogen 70 series rods.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg thanks.
Can you store your rods in an airtight container with a dessicant?
And does sticking your rod and letting it heat up to dry it out make a difference?
So I personally store left over rods in a airtight container with desiccant. This doesn’t actually meet code for proper storage, the reason is somewhat simple. The 7018 flux can absorb moisture from the air, much like desiccant does. If you put a “wet” 7018 in a airtight container with desiccant, the desiccant will not pull moisture out of the rod just as two packs of desiccant will not pull moisture from one another. The desiccant will only prevent more moisture from being absorbed into 7018.
The truth is for most jobs even a improperly stored 7018 will put less hydrogen in a weld than all other non low hydrogen rods, so you’re still safer using a 7018 over say a 7014 for a job that could have hydrogen embrittlement.
Man just the cost of keeping the rods at 300deg per month 12 per year.
Just wondering if you use Mig welding and cause you use C25 as a shield do you still have problems with hydrogen penetration. Recently took a trip to Northern Tool and picked up some 7018 by ESAB noticed the had a small sealed 4lb package for 25 dollars and a screw on 5lb package for 32 dollars. I bought the larger cause of convenience. I guess if I had to use this product I would have to heat in the oven at 350 for 2 hours before use and only heat what you will use on the project.
So hard wire Mig is a very low risk of hydrogen embrittlement since the wire doesn’t absorb moisture. The downside to it is welding higher strength steel generally means welding thick steel, and short arc MiG has poor penetration performance on thick steel. Spray arc will work for that however most home hobby welders aren’t capable of voltage high enough to “spray”. With most home hobby welders using flux core will give them great penetration however some flux core wire is specifically designed not to absorb moisture into the flux (flux core is a hollow tube with flux, if the tube isn’t sealed perfectly hydrogen can absorb into it, albeit far less than a stick rod).
I use those sealed packages of 7018 by esab (7018 prime). Rather than running a rod oven 24-7 I just open a fresh pack, weld the job, and store the rods in a box with desiccant. I will then use those rods for non critical work, and use a new pack for critical work. It works out well for me.
The biggest issue with the hydrogen embrittlement is when welding higher strength alloy steel. If you are welding mild steel you likely will never see the issue pop up, since it would pop up (even worse) if you welded it with 6010/11/13, all those rods that impart way more hydrogen into a weld than 7018. Per code you need to bake 7018 at much higher temps than 350 as a “bake off” to get all the hydrogen out so they meet code (generally 450-550 depending on manufacture). Realistically 350 in a oven for 2 hours would knock out most of the hydrogen, and I doubt you’re building nuke plant boilers, so you should be ok lol.
Hopefully that helps you out.
Edit: try the esab 7018 prime next time you need rods. They have a graphite tip that really makes starts easy and they help prevent starting porosity with 7018. I personally run those all the time and like them a lot.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg thank for the long in debt reply. I'm somewhat new to welding. Recently retired and thought I would learn how. I've had a Lincoln I think you call them tombstone welders for about 10 years and never really used it. I went ahead upon retiring picked up a Miller 220 multi in order to learn mig and stick and later after I feel confident I will tackle tig. I have burnt up about 3lbs of 6013 learning starts and stops and did some lap as well. Now I've been running some 7018 to see the difference. I have learned if you have a glove on with a new rod of 7018 it's easier to start if you grab the rod about 4 inches back I think I noticed you doing that. I have had trouble seeing the puddle even though I have a Lincoln 3350 hood but recently that has cleared up after adjusting the darkness a little more open. I'm not going to be mig welding with a 3 phase unit so looks like I will be using 7018 if I need to weld up a trailer tong or something that you can't afford to fail. By the way thanks you for what you do in pointing us hobbyist in the right direction. We need all the help we can get.
@@michaelmusson3593 the 220 is a great welder to learn on and it makes it real easy with the auto set. 7018 is definitely a different animal to 6013. I like the way 6013 starts/restarts but I find 7018 runs a smoother bead/less slag inclusions. You likely have seen me help start a rod with help from my other hand, sometimes to do things like that without even thinking of it. On a new rod it helps, especially with smaller diameter rods that flex/shake a lot.
What shade are you running on that 3350? I run the same hood and it’s the best for clarity in my opinion. With stick I tend to run a shade 10 or 11. If you wear reading glasses or your near sight is a bit rough they make slip in “cheater” lenses for the 3350 that work well. I am on the cusp of needing a low powered one, what holds me back is I have enough muscle memory that I can still make good welds without being able to see what’s going on lol. If I was starting out now I would have to use a cheater lens no doubt. Don’t be afraid to take a file or a awl and score some lines where the weld needs to be after you tacked the pieces up, it will help with visibility for sure.
Thanks again for the words regarding my work. I am happy to help, and it’s a good feeling to know all the information I have in my head is being used by other people trying to learn a new skill 😀.
Since I got my Everlast 200STi last week, I've been running 1/8 6013 over and over. I've avoided picking up 7018 because of not wanting to deal with a rod oven. It sounds like you are saying for a home hobbyist, it's okay to leave them stored in a sealed container for normal non hardened steel? By the way, it's going good! Learned I wasn't holding a tight enough arc, and was using too low of amperage, but it's getting better! Do you think I should try 7018, or something else first?
Glad to hear things are going well 😀. So what you talked about is pretty much accurate. If you were to weld any high strength steel with any rod besides 7018 you are imparting hydrogen into the material (especially 6010/11). So using different rods than 7018 will not solve the hydrogen problem, which is what most people are confused about. The storage requirements of 7018 allow a person to safely weld high strength steel if they are met. Using a improperly stored 7018 won’t cause hydrogen embrittlement any more than running 6013 or 7014 instead. As a matter of fact many 7018s have a moisture resistant flux that will probably impart less hydrogen than other common rods despite being stored improperly.
Using properly stored (rod oven) or new in sealed pack 7018s will not cause hydrogen embrittlement on high strength steel, which is something that no other common store bought rod can do. So the general thought is use 7018s as you would a normal rod, just make sure you keep them in the factory container, and only pull out what you need as you need it. If you are welding on a known (or suspected) high strength material use only rods from a rod oven or new from a sealed pack. That way you know the weld will not suffer from hydrogen embrittlement. Switching to any other rod will not solve that issue like I said. The great thing is for 16-25$ you can keep a 3-5lbs factory sealed container of new rods that are 100% dry and ready to rock on higher strength parts (no rod oven needed). Only bust them open when you know you need them. I personally like Esabs 7018-prime, and those come in 4lb sealed packages. I have heard atom arc 7018 is also really good, and those come in a sealed container.
My suggestion is pickup 7018 and get good with it. It’s a great rod and once you get used to it you won’t regret running it. It has less of a tendency of slag inclusion (especially at the start) than 6013. It also makes smoother beads, the puddle is easier to see, and I find it welds out of position way better. The only thing that’s hard with it is the starts/restarts. If you watch my 7018 videos you’ll realize that’s no issue at all. The predictability of the 7018 is what I like. The penetration is consistent, so is everything else when run right. 6013 is a great place to start, then go to 7018. Once you can run 7018 well going to 6010 or 6011 is good because they work great for poor fit up. Basically another tool for the toolbox. 😀
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Thanks for taking the time to explain things to me. I'm going to pick up a small pack of 7018, and keep them in a resealable container just for practice and some non critical welds. If I find myself ever doing anything structural, or hardened steel I'll get a fresh pack 👍
@@jeffpv. no problem. Once you get used to 7018 you will like it. 😀
20 minutes in a microwave sorts out old rods ,been doing it for years
Do they make 7018 that is individually wrapped?
The best option for this is the esab 7018 prime. It comes in small 4lb packs and meet spec for low hydrogen out of the package. I don’t use a rod oven any more because I just use a brand new pack for a job. Once I am done I put the left over rods in a sealed container and use those for non critical work.
jesse ventura teaches welding