Family Exclusion in Mormon Temple Weddings
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- Опубликовано: 23 авг 2024
- In order to be married in the temple within the LDS church, only adults who have an active temple recommend may attend the wedding ceremony. In this Mormon Stories excerpt, Shannon Caldwell Montez opens up about what it was like to be excluded from her own daughter’s wedding, which took place in the LDS temple shortly after Shannon and her husband decided to leave the church - thus disqualifying them from attending.
This excerpt is from Mormon Stories episode number 1337 - “Shannon Caldwell Montez: From Wife and Mother to Groundbreaking Historian”
The full interview can be found at: • Mormon Stories #1337: ...
Chapters:
* 01:33 - Shannon learns of her daughter’s engagement
* 02:42 - Questioning why it had to be this way within the church
* 03:45 - This has happened for generations in her family
* 04:34 - Shannon implored her Bishop to grant her a recommend
* 05:26 - Tells her bishop why she feels worthy to attend
* 06:33 - Her recommend is denied
* 07:18 - On the day of the Wedding, Shannon resigns from the church
* 10:40 - Hardest day of her life
* 11:23 - Lack of sympathy from others
* 12:08 - No mother deserves this
* 12:34 - This practice is "Cruel and Unusual Punishment"
* 13:53 - The gospel undermines empathy
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#LDS #Mormon #TempleWedding
“You shouldn’t have to qualify to go to your child’s wedding”. Well said.
I'm am so impressed by her confidence and how she recognized The harm being done and called out people (like the Bishop) to let them know how this is wrong. Powerful woman
Agreed!
Every whining woman on these sites is called "Powerful" "brave" "confident" "intelligent", etc....They are none of these and are only here as a hater's "trophy" and to gain the fawning approval of the cretins as long as they bash the faith of the Mormons. Sad.
The UN-Christ like attitude of the church on many procedures based on excluding policies and not actual doctrine is hurtful to members and families which it claims to be it's main focus. It's not "complaining" to bring attention to hurtful, gaslighting, abusive practices that are used as a leverage tool to keep members in the church and keep them paying to the Church's corporation. It is a powerful thing to stand up to for what you believe and shine a light on abuse when the offending party has only hurt and try to silence you. A religion that silently crushes it's members who question these hurtful practices is not truly a religion of Christ but only interested in its own gain and appearance. Christ searched for the missing 1 sheep and left the 99. The Mormon church tries to quietly slaughter the 1 sheep and purchase a new one with deceit to fill its position and pretend like the other 1 sheep never existed.
@@awilk07 So only haters' whining, spiteful and vile criticisms (like yours)are acceptable? Mormons who defend their faith are just brainwashed apologists doing Satan's bidding? Is that how it works in your world? You'd better get used to pushback, A Wilk, no more response-free bashing for you!...you're so powerful...lol
@@johnlee1352 It's just trying to point out a constructive criticism that could stop the hurt of so many people. the fact is that she, myself and MANY others have been hurt by the practices of the church and if you have only had positive experiences with the church then great! I'm happy for you-no sarcasm intended. But that is not always the experience for countless others. Until you have been in our shoes it's impossible for you to understand, I only know because I've been in your shoes, shaming others for their disbelief and doubt until I went through my own faith crisis and experienced this same pain and hurt. Some of this pain and hurt could be avoided with simple policy changes from the church which is what she, John and others are trying to bring attention to. So please to not discount our experiences with the church just because they seem different from your own, It just stopped working for us. To those who have not experienced that pain and hurt it may seem as if we are attacking. Instead of complaining about how we are going about this, suggest meaningful alternatives to get changed to happen. Sitting quietly, keeping our mouths shut, and not calling out the church when practices are hurting people is not a solution for change. To suggest otherwise is a form of gaslighting and abuse. I don't doubt there are those who the church works for and I hope it stays that way for them because going through a faith crisis is the hardest thing ever especially with people like you discounting and attacking our experiences. It is HARD to say these things with people shaming is for it. We wish we didn't have to....
Wow, she took them to task. What an intelligent, well spoken, powerful person. When I was in the church I didn't understand how bad this was.
This made me UGLY CRY!! I feel for you and empathize with you.❤ I missed my oldest son's wedding for the same reason. In addition to the complete heartbreak of missing the wedding I felt a stinging pain of being judged by hypocritical, un-christlike, inlaws who blame me for leaving my abusive ex-husband and losing my testimony. Thank you so much for sharing this excerpt (I loved the long-form interview also) and thank you so much for putting in writing the feelings and pain unnecessarily inflicted on so many family members in this situation! ❤ YOU ARE MY HERO!!!
BYU-Idaho is basically a Mormon indoctrination camp. Students get expelled for skipping church or not following church teachings. The science gen-ed classes are a 50/50 split of science and apologetics.
This is partly why I left the church, they say they're about family but they separate families, they say they're about God but they put themselves between you and God. As a member I never would have seen it that way, but once I experienced the doctrine harming my family and trying to destroy my relationship with God everything else fell apart for me.
Ill never forget when my dad (a non-Mormon) was LIVID when he found out from my cousin (Mormon) was going to have a wedding he couldn't attend. My cousins stunned and staggered reaction spoke to how he truly felt about the ridiculous practice and how hurtful it was to other non-Mormon family members.
You know you are in a cult when the “church authorities” tell you who can and can’t be invited to watch a wedding.
“It undervalues their ability to be empathetic because theyre so concerned with being right.” I used to be exactly this.
It's shocking to see how much this is relevant even in some of the other comments on this video. People blaming her, ridiculing her, even mocking her pain.
In my experience, it seems all to clear that, to many, many Mormons, "Christlike love" only applies to people they agree with.
@@kelleren4840 💯🤕
I’m chocking up watching this, how dare a church cause this much pain 😢
I sat in a ceremony in what looked like a Sunday school room while my friend Ray and his new wife had a bishop explained to everyone in the room including my best friend Ray's mom that they could not enter the temple to witness the marriage. Not so much for me, but his mom was truly devastated. They are cruel and ridiculous. You don't ban the groom's mom, bad look, bad form, irreligious.
Ah yes, nothing like being treated like a second-class relative when the rest of the "worthy" family is witnessing the sealing. Waited outside for my brother's first, and later after that divorce, his second wedding (sealing). At the second wedding my nevermo husband and I waited outside with my SIL's gay sister and girlfriend. My other foot was out the door soon after that event.
That's how the Celestial kingdom will be, remember the parable of the 10 virgins, it's tough but fair
@@legacy756 Yep, that's how it's gonna be alright (not to mention "imaginary"!)
@@mylesmarkson1686 could be imaginary, but if I die I die and lived a good life but if it's true then sorry big trouble
@@legacy756 Yeah, I'm sure that such a loving God wants us all to live in constant fear of him.
@@mylesmarkson1686 the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, also the concern should be with what body we will be resurrected
I watched this full interview, and I am happy to see that you decided to spotlight this gripping account of a mother's heartbreak. This church (and a few others) needs to rethink its approach. There is more inter-faith marriage these days. The Mormon church needs to look around. Most reasonable churches welcome everybody to marriage ceremonies. Nobody needs a religion ID to walk through the doors. This is just another policy that divides groups in our country instead of building community that is inclusive for all.
I was 16 when my cousin got married, I was outside with my grandma because her temple recommend expired. I can’t believe my grandma missed my cousins wedding. I got married last January and I didn’t get married in the temple, and all my friends were able to attend my wedding, I hadn’t left the church yet, but it was a dream wedding and I’m so glad I did that!
We're glad too...that you left.
@@johnlee1352 Every member a missionary, huh, John? I love it when you make your snarky comments! Those curious and investigating the church see what you post on this channel and it just confirms what these stories have been saying for years: the church and its members are a nasty bunch, including you.
@@scandia67 Ahhh...the sound of Christian/Atheist judgment...feels right.
@@johnlee1352 John, How do you reconcile the fact that the Mormon church fought against the civil rights movement and taught the world that segregation and racism was doctrinal and gods will until 1978? This is 14 years after the US passed the civil rights act in 1964. Your prophets taught that people with African decent were cursed with dark skin for generations and generations. Today the church disavows this earlier doctrine and teaching. So was your church lying to the world for 150 years about gods will or was god really racist and changed his mind in 1978?
@@scandia67 John=snark. A very nasty man. But I think he is helping to keep investigators from wanting to learn more. Who would ever want to be in a church with a person like him? So good job John!
@Shannon my heart breaks with yours. Please know that if I would have known your circumstances I would have come to the temple that day, stood by your side, loved and supported you in every way possible all of which holds true even in this moment. ♥️
My parents couldn’t attend either. They tithed but it wasn’t “full” so although they were active members, they were excluded. Obviously, it was hard for my mom. Sisters from my Ward volunteered to go with me in my mother’s place. But I knew my mom would be crushed if I said “yes”. So I went alone. My future MIL was there but she had a neurological disease that made it so SHE needed assistance and so it was a mess! And I found out later they [my FIL] had “white lied” about THEIR tithing so they COULD get a recommend. No words for the sadness. I’m glad the policy has changed. It was past time.
Interesting because being considered a full-tithe payer is supposed to be up to the member to judge themselves. So if it's a full-tithe in your own opinion then it's a full tithing. I asked my bishop if I am supposed to pay on the Gross or net income. He said it's based on what I feel is a full-tithe. So I pay based on my increase and the needs of the church, based on one talk we shouldn't have to pay tithing anymore. So $0 is a full tithing to me.
@@josephsmith7015 And 0 intelligence is your plight...
Whats the policy now.i have been inactive for 10 years.i would like to know.thsnks
@@johnlee1352 oh ok, your so much smarter then me, so keep paying your tithing
@@josephsmith7015 Just ask Mark Norton for a Temple Recommend - he does them for free.
First wife: Jewish, I was asked to convert in order to have a temple wedding.
Second wife: LDS, I was asked to convert in order to have a temple wedding.
Third wife: Catholic. I was asked to prove I was a Catholic to be married in the church.
Yet, all 3 religions would take money from me ( tithing ) no questions asked. What a sham religion is.
Married 3 times I guess you didn’t learn the first two times
I was a convert to the church slowly on my way out now though after 10 years , but this is one of my biggest regrets and pain is that my parents never got to see me get married. I feel your pain now and see the other side of it and can only imagine now the pain my parents would have felt as non mormons.
Please consider leaving now and take your weakness and confusion out from among us.
@@johnlee1352 You are such a nasty human. And a terrible example for the church. Thank heavens you are in the minority of how Mormons feel and act.
@@michelereber8680 Look away if you don't approve.
I can understand both sides of this. I was there to love & hug my children as they came out of the temple. It was beautiful.
What a good mom.
My daughter refused to get married in the Temple since her family could not attend.She had an outdoor wedding.They have been married 30 years and never sealed which is a big No No.After many years of going and trying to adhear to all the rules,etc.the whole family quit.My grandson was married in the Temple 3 years ago and his parents could not attend....only my SIL's parents and the girls parents.It was a sad situation but they insisted.Now they are already not going regularily.
This just breaks my mommy heart.😪
But it satisfied your hater's heart...
@@johnlee1352 You are so clueless and mislead. I think you are just rolling but on the chance, you are not. FU
@@hal8683 Thanks Hal...your mask slipped. Nice to know what you really are...
@@hal8683 He is clueless and a very nasty human. A troll for sure.
WOW. This is powerful. I’ve thought about this so much. I haven’t been able to be in the room for ANY of my siblings who have been married. Most of them just because I wasn’t even old enough to be there. And that makes me sad. And it makes me even more sad for parents who can’t be there for their children.
I think the reason underage members aren't allowed to see the sealing is because it would deflate the mythology of how wonderful it all is. If teens or younger saw it they would just shrug at how mundane and boring it actually is. They want to keep it built up as this INCREDIBLE event in the minds of youths so that they strive to get married in the temple themselves.
@@blackalien6873 WELL SAID! AMEN.
To be honest that ceremony was so over rated. I sat in one of my friend’s wedding. But yes I feel u Sister !!
Yeah the sealing ceremonies I went to before giving them up for good, were super cringy. They were about the religion and its leaders not about romance, or love.
Is not about the ceremony per se but the sealing power that it carries, that of course is the important thing to a believer.
It’s not about that. It’s about being kept out of her own daughter’s wedding
I remember getting married in the temple and my ex-wife's mother and father could not be there because they weren't members. As we told her she could not be in the ceremony or even witness it, I could see the pain in her eyes, and it really bothered me to see her mother hurt, she was a good mom. She asked why and then she stated that it was "unfair that she couldn't see her own daughter get married". She asked if the church could accommodate them in some way, I had to say no. The father didn't say much, but I know that it made him uncomfortable to hear.
Exclusivity in religion to this extreme is deeply unhealthy. Parents not being able to witness their children get married in the temple feels like another "us against them" tactic mentality. In retrospect, the church seems to have a couple (if not more) of these Exclusivity "VIP, Members access only" type things. For instance, I know not everyone can attend temple prep classes, not everyone can watch or be in the Elder's quorum meetings (women being one of those). Not everyone can have the priesthood. I'm sure there is more, I just can't think of any more right now. This whole thing with "you can't do this, you can't see that, or you have to have this in order to be able to see or be a part of that" seems extreme, and it feels like the church is always trying to hide something, good grief.
They stopped the one year wait period recently. You can now have the sealing in the morning and an open wedding that afternoon. You can also have the invite all wedding and then do a sealing without a one year wait period.
Beautiful point to end it on. Though unfortunate. “Being right is more important than being loving”. So many stories shared, but I don’t think I’ve heard that single point stated so perfectly.
I know John doesn't like calling the church a cult, but the shoe seems to be fitting.
She is so I intelligent to note that damage can be done by good people. When you are in the church, you are taught to prioritize faith over everything including family. Many members do not understand the harm that is being done. The harm is usually unintentional, and she is right. It's easy to absolve oneself of blame just and defer to the larger organization (like her bishop did). When I was a member, I would not have even thought twice about letting my (non-member) mother miss my wedding. Now my little sister is about to get married in the temple and it is crazy how devastating it is for me. I cannot go because I truly don't believe. I dont believe. Just sad that different beliefs can create a barrier between families on these special occasions.
I don’t have many regrets in my life, but I do wish our wedding ceremony had been more special. Every time I watch a non-Mormon wedding, I am reminded of how much more special a wedding ceremony can be.
My father and sister weren’t able to attend and had to stay outside (father was in a repentance process). Crazy to think that I once thought that was okay.
The sealer didn’t know us and the whole ceremony had nothing personal to it. There was no meeting with him before the sealing so that he could get to know us at least a little bit.
😂
There is, of course, no recording of our ceremony that we can watch together on wedding anniversaries.
Getting dressed after the sealing, I had to argue with a temple worker about how to wear the garment (our area presidency had taught that it didn’t matter whether you wore it on top of your bra or underneath). My mom turned into a momma bear, so that was an awkward experience right after our sealing.
„Normal“ weddings are just so much better and memorable.
A family traveled all the way from Nicaragua to Manti just to find out they couldn't actually be at their daughter's/sister's wedding.
What idiots!
@@johnlee1352 I agree with you - what idiots not letting them attend!
So well said! I too was unable to attend my daughters wedding in the Temple. It was heartbreaking to say the least.
For a church that focuses on family, this is inexcusable. I, too, waited in the waiting room when my son was married. It has hurt me for years…
Wow! What a rockstar of a woman.That letter was amazing! Thank you for sharing this honest and heartfelt perspective. It's completely heartbreaking when you realize what the church policies are actually doing to real-life families (which, by the way, EVERY family is a real-life family, whether we see it from the outside or not). I'm so sad to think that I put my father (one of my best friends in life) through this same thing on my wedding day.
How could her daughter feel good about this??
Brainwashing.
she probably didn't feel good about this. It was probably a really hard decision to make.
She traded her mother for a new husband. Husband's don't always last, you only get one mother. The daughter is as cold hearted as the church.
@@mbtadhl Seems like a bit of an over-simplification. It's entirely possible it was extremely difficult for the daughter too. The bad guy here is the Mormon church for holding 'eternal families' hostage and manipulating people into thinking they need to choose a multi-billion dollar corporation over their family in the first place.
The worst story a friend told me was when his brother was getting married. The bishop denied the father of the groom from getting a recommend. He was self employed, was struggling financially, and had fallen behind on tithing. The stake president supported the bishop. The bishop told father to pay the back tithing based on the "bill" he had calculated owed by the father. So he had to get a bank loan, pay the tithing, get the recommend and then attend the son's wedding. He never forgave the bishop or stake president for that incident and never returned to church until both had been released.
I’m getting married Catholic in less than a year and I am so excited to rub it in my family’s face to show them that they can bring their kids and see the love profession between me and my soon-to-be husband. To show them that all are welcome to see two people declare their unconditional love for each other. Most of my wedding experience has been in a waiting room, which is absolute cruel and unusual punishment. My two older siblings got married when I was a child, but I had to sit and wait until everyone came out celebrating. Same thing with my cousins. But I’m not gonna make my Mormon family sit tucked away in a corner because they aren’t “worthy” of being in the chapel or “ready” to participate.
When I got married and invited my Mormon colleagues to my wedding, one of them asked “I can actually attend the ceremony?” in total disbelief. I said we welcome everyone.
Funny how I did do the civil ceremony my return missionary brother had to as well then sealed a year later. While in hindsight it makes sense to be married for a bit before being seal for eternity. But it was a scarlet letter doing things this way it’s like being punished and feeling shamed as a couple at the very beginning of the relationship it left a Mark for sure. That inability to be perfect is too heavy a weight for anyone I hate right now the strong connection I have with the church in my thoughts and actions it doesn’t make me a good person I’m so judgmental even after falling away I judge myself most harshly of course. Sorry for the venting. I wish you well your so intelligent and well spoken I wish I was half as energetic as you both(John included) thanks for sharing and I’m sending hugs and support!
Can’t agree with you more and I feel your frustration and anger. Believe me, I know intimately how hurt you feel. This is such an amazing quote. “It does bad things with good people. It undermines their ability to be empathetic because they are so concerned about being right. Being right is more important than being loving.” If that doesn’t describe the faith…... Wow! So passionate and true to the core!
I'm so sorry you were treated that way. I can't imagine their doing that to you. God bless you.
The ability for church members to “dig in their heels” is enormous, and has the ability to destroy relationships in so many ways, it is such a self righteous life style, and it is more important to be “right”, than to figure out how to bring family members together, it COULD be figured out. I find this attitude so very disgusting. SO disgusting I can’t stand it.
I hope the church sees what they do. It’s sick. It is cult like. And she is right, not one other church does this. Cult vs religion. My heart just breaks for her. It’s sick!!!!!!
Crazy how much this channel has taught me over the time I've followed it. I'm not a Mormon nor have I ever been. I'd align more with Messianic Judaism. For some reason I always felt the need to know everything about all types of religions. So when I first spoke to LDS members here in Mesa I was as I have always been the King of hard questions. So I took to the internet and found this channel. It's like finding that gem that you never expected. (Well not just this channel spent more time on your other channel)
check out the video 50 problems with the Mormon church, the mormon informant also puts out excellent stuff.
Good to see people waking up.
If I could hug you through the screen, I would. How heartbreaking for a mother.
Another friend of mine had to wait outside the temple for three of his four kids' sealings. He had to suck it up and look happy for his kids' wedding days. The reason was he was faithful to all the covenants, except for church attendance.
The Temple ceremony is basic and there is nothing special about it. They're not even allowed to exchange rings.
The cost of doing this , is because they know what it's like to have control over your mind and over your body and over your person. Complete control over your money.
Such a disgrace of this invention by joey.
I want to vomit.
None violence
But they can give a recommendation to a guy who watch pornography, tray his kids like crap and test woman like carpet? That what I saw over and over to my ex husband, my son was 14 years old and he was to be something and his dad had to do the blessing or something, I told the bishop back then, he didn't do anything about it but get mad of me and test me like crap, for that and many reason I left the church.
Here it is the proof that it is a cult not a church!!
Wait why did someone that was married civilly have to wait a year before they can get sealed in the Temple?
That is how long it takes a Convert to gain the Melkesedic priesthood.thst is doctrine
It's literally to discourage people from getting married civilly and then getting sealed shortly after. Strict manipulation and control, and, to my knowledge, it's a US-only policy.
It's a shaming tactic. But they changed it recently because they are losing membership. It's just a business trying to keep its captive customers. They will change if they have to. Expect a lot more changes as more people leave.
@@janetnewcomb54 That rule applied to all members including born-ins. Anyone who chose to marry civilly first had to wait year to get a temple marriage because that policy was recently changed.
@@janetnewcomb54 I prayed about it and requiring members to wait a year to be sealed doesn't feel right so it must not be right.
I also prayed about the requirement for being worthy to partake of the sacrament and the answer I got was that bishops should not be advising the restriction of the sacrament.
While they may not have answered you directly, you may have been instrumental in preventing other mothers and family members missing out in the way you did. Remember God moves in mysterious ways
I know John doesn't like to use the word "cult" but 19th century secret cult rituals do not mix well with 21st century sensibilities. It works extremely well in an isolated commune-like community under an oligarchy - far away from normal society.....and I think that was by design. Hey, when you're far away and remote from law and order, you can do whatever you want. Just ask Jim Jones. But as the church started spreading out across the globe and tried and somewhat succeeded in trying to legitimize itself as a normal Christian religion, it invariably ran into mixed faith family associations and circumstances. The secrecy of the temple does not make allowance for the church in the modern age. It causes heartache and tension. I've heard stories of parents raising a daughter or son and being there for all of her/his important moments - even paying for the wedding - and they are relegated to having to sit outside and not be apart of it. And I do not believe the secretiveness has anything to do with sacredness. I think it had/has more to do with people not finding out that Joseph Smith ripped-off the Masons. It's all emotional abuse and no Q15 has the testicular fortitude to break from convention. You're not much of a prophet if all you do is do what you've always done. I know the church has now allowed civil weddings and not having to wait a year to be sealed, but let's be honest - in Mormon society that is seen as a less-than proposition.
Thank you for sharing. So much control. So wrong, but they still believe they are so much better.
Dont be mislead anyone and non members can go to their normal big wedding its just after their wedding if they have a Temple recommendation they go into the Temple to be cealed for time and eternity it is very quick and quiet in a small room no food or drink etc it isnt like traditional wedding where you get married till death you do part as i said you can have that as big as you like without going into the temple and leave the Temple marriage cealing for another time
I'm one of those people who genuinely cares and just want to help in any way I can
My daughter had a very big normal wedding with non member friends and family where they vow to death they do part like all weddings and most religions then in the temple they kneel and the few words are said that they are married for time and all eternity which can be done later in life or if they dont want the big wedding family can go if they have a temple recommend but there is no cost
Very good try i wish your efforts would have got you in to your daughter's wedding you are a great mother the suffering needs to stop everyone deserves to go to their own children's wedding ceremony
I feel the pain of being excluded like her, but I can't help but wonder if my parents would feel the same pain if I didn't get married in the temple. All this pain, wrapped up in a belief system.
President Hinkley didn't get married in the Temple initially.
@@josephsmith7015 good for him i guess?
Weaponizing “the most beautiful day of your life” is one of the most sadistic things the church has implemented.
The church sucks. Perhaps that reads sophomoric, but I think it gets to the point.
Agreed. And to think that this whole temple-wedding thing started just because Joey Baloney wanted to take more wives in secret (Oops, I mean "sacred").
Ohhhhhhhh John!.... watching the Inauguration so I cannot join in Real Time. Bummer.
Ohhhhhhhh @John Dehlin...see above
I feel so sad for you. My heart hurts for you.
My heart hurts because you lost your faith. These are troubling times you need to pray
@@SarahB-mr6cn Believing in things that are demonstratively not true because of "faith" is foolish. Stop accepting claims that are demonstratively false because of feelings. Its amazing to me in 2021 there are still people this delusional. Wake up Sarah.
This is sad. She did deserve love, hugs, support, expressions of empathy from local leaders. I am an active member. I've seen the opposite from some local leaders. I've also seen unkindness, harsh judgement, etc. The fact is They are just people. They don't do a perfect job. I'm not condoning their lack of empathy. I think if they watched this I would hope they would reach out in love and understanding. Some local leaders in the church do just that. The prophet and apostles have so much on their plate that they literally can't meet every demand from 16 million members. Imagine 1 million writing a letter to them. Then they oversee financial committee, missionary committees, building committees, foreign aid, etc. The list goes on. They spend a lot of time and have too much to do. Thats why they delegate out to local leaders. Well, not every stake president and bishop have the loving characteristics of an apostle. How could a local leader reach out well when they are rough around the edges, too strict or too judgemental based on their own upbringing and social circumstances. I've seen a whole host of examples of different leadership styles. The church has taught in conference that we are all just normal people trying to do the Lords will. I think the early apostles were no different. Only the Savior handles things perfectly. But anyhow. Bless this woman's heart. I'm sure she is a great mom. How hard it would be to deal with not believing and then ironically having that disbelief be a reason why she is unable to attend her daughters wedding. I'm sure God is looking down with love and compassion. I promise the church is trying its best. Its still growing and learning all the while trying to keep the rules and standards in place.
Just a future topic suggestion:
Re the Churchs' secretive Granite Vault, in Salt Lake, located up Little Cottonwood canyon.
How long
Amen
Such a self-righteous policy. Disgusting. And very clearly an instrument of control.
Has it been there??
Why is it so securely guarded??
Why so secretive??
So many questions to be answered re it!!
I'm my humble opinion, religion just divided people. I have an step son , and probably I won't be able to go. Its sad, because I don't make nothing wrong. I just a mon that works hard for my kids. A lot's of challenge at life. And one more thing to be worried about. 😥
Why not give her the recommend? The week after the wedding she could turn back the recommend to the bishop.
Why do you need to have anything to watch a ceremony especially a wedding /sealing? What makes it ok for a "good" mormon to attend by not ok for others to attend just because they are not mormon or not in good standing with the church? You saved by grace alone and not by the deeds you do.
@@marygable5824 Hi Mary. Grace alone is a start. If you are truly converted your actions will reflect the conversion. Christ and His apostles talk about that in the New testament. There are a series of requirements for the recommend. Currently that is the only way to get into the temple. I don't know what other solution there would be to get into the sealing ceremony. Maybe a side door to only that part of the temple. But that's what we have to deal with now. The sealing ceremony is not secret, but it is so sacred. I know a lot of members have two weddings: the sealing ceremony and marriage in the temple and then have a public wedding for everyone else so they don't feel left out.
Highly manipulative organization. So wrong.
Did you keep attending Church even as you were losing your faith? If so, your daughter went to BYU-I and to the Temple because you kept going. If I’m wrong, sorry. But why did you expect your kid to do any different?
it means too much to you, suffering
Wedding ceremonies are overrated. What comes after is what matters.
Mom needs to take responsibility for her actions raising her kids in the church. What did she expect? You can't just change your kids beliefs especially after having them programmed for so long. Sad.
Mormon stories dont tell it as it is if you want to understand the true teaching ask an active member of the church of jesus christ of latterday saints there are plenty of them like me who was married in the temple too
No mother deserves that. Jesus I know is one of inclusion. May God heal your pain.
The lack of sympathy, inclusion etc totally falls on your daughter. I can't imagine choosing a religion over my Mama.
You’ve never been in a cult then.
@@UnderstandingMormonism oh but I have, it's called Fundimentalist Christianity... I would never choose a religion over my Mama
@@annachristie377 I agree, but many mormons firmly believe that the only way they can be with their family forever is through the church's ordinances. So, it is difficult to get angry with your family members because they think that they are acting in the best interests of their family in the long run. I lost my faith in the church within the last year but I am still active because my wife still believes and she hopes I will come around. I know she believes that she is trying to save our eternal family by "keeping her covenants". I try to show her historical documents that go against many things the church taught about it's history but every time she is presented with factual evidence that counters the church's narrative she gets upset and thinks I'm trying to "harm her faith". It is a delicate thing to approach with a loved one.
As Mark Twain once said, "It is easier to fool someone than it is to convince them that they have been fooled". It is very difficult to show someone information that counters what they believe with all their hearts. I still remember the anguish I experienced once I realized the church had withheld information and misled us. They feel as if you are attacking them personally for believing it.
So, it is not as clear cut as "They are choosing a religion over family" because they truly believe that they are choosing family THROUGH religion. It has been difficult these last several months to be patient with my wife and I hope she eventually comes around and becomes willing to look at the information objectively with me.
@@annachristie377 Then you should be well aware that different cults indoctrinate their adherents into different behaviors.
There is nothing bad in the church many are comming back because they checked out what is said on these mormon stories podcasts and proved mormon stories is very misleading a lot of them know the correct way to explain the church teachings but arnt interrested in living a christian life to partake the sacrament to remember Jesus Christ and sadly they have lost there understanding there is a podcast called COMMING BACK if you want a close relationship with Jesus Christ peace and happyness watch that
I live right by byu I . It is a total cult .
It's heartbreaking that Mormons (and Jehovah's Witnesses) live under domination and control. And because of that, they cannot see the cult. Christ is freedom... freedom is Christ. Leave the cult dear friends and run to Jesus. He is waiting.
Lets not use one delusion to put down another. The bible condones rape, genocide, slavery, and murder. The bible gives specific instructions on how to enslave people and transfer them as property. The bible is not a moral book , or a book to base your life on. The earth is not 6000 years old, a global flood as described in the bible never happened. Its time to stop accepting claims that defy logic and reality on bad evidence. Doing so is what causes people to end up in cults.
The string on the kite keeps the kite in the air. You only like the wind.
@@kennance115 The Mormon truth claims are not only demonstratively not true, but cults are damaging. Lets not defend cults or legitimize their pursuit for financial gain and control. People do much better without the cult strings.
I would've said spiritually lazy...they do not seek after God as they should...they cling to the rigidness of their minds....always leaning but never coming to the truth!! Educated beyond their intelligence!
Not defending the church, but is the temple not a sacred space that an apostate or non-members presence would essentially tarnish? Seems a tad illogical to beat yourself up over an unchangeable tenant of the religion? Why should they renounce their practices for disbelieving parents? Just advocate for the dissolve of the church and enjoy your freedom. What am I missing?
I feel bad that you are sad. Why should those who do not follow the rules be rewarded the same as those who do? Why didn't your daughter get a wonderful civil ceremony that you could have enjoyed? She likely offered you that that option, I think. Now you insult the Church and your daughter even more by associating with Dr. Dehlin. This after all of those concerned have given you options to work around your dilemma. You are still Mormon or you would not care. Don't worry about your tithing debt; There is always a way back home.
Unfortunately, because her daughter was married a year before the LDS church changed its policy on civil ceremonies, they did not have the option to have a civil ceremony (unless the couple waited an entire year to be officially sealed in the temple, which often results in a lot of shame and judgement from other members of the church). I would encourage you to go listen to Shannon's full interview in order to gain a fuller perspective of what her experience was.
@@UnderstandingMormonism What is weird that a lot of Mormon who have had sex just lie about it and go a head and get married in temple anyway.
Gees... I get her point but talk about whinge... 🙄
I feel sorry for you, but the Bishop didn't make this decision. The Lord didn't make this decision. YOU made this decision! If you are looking to blame someone then blame yourself. You chose a course of action that you knew would keep you from entering the temple. Besides, if your daughter wanted to have a civil marriage after her sealing, she could have made that choice. My son married a girl whose mother was not a member of the church, and unable to attend the marriage in the temple. So they decided to have a ring ceremony at the reception so her mother could be a part of the wedding. It turned out to be very nice.
Check out her response at 11:23
And while John may be a better person than I, and maintain his excellent politeness, I will do no such thing.
You should be ASHAMED of yourself. Your miserable, compassionless cruelty, as demonstrated in this comment, is as shocking as it is revolting. By your own example, you've made it abundantly clear that your 'God's' injunction to 'mourn with those that mourn, [and] comfort those that stand in need of comfort' means NOTHING to you, should someone DARE commit the sin of exercising their freedom of conscience.
How could you possibly sleep at night knowing that your understanding of religious freedom is self-serving, and your sense of empathy so catastrophically corrupt, that the MOMENT someone exercises their own religious freedom, and exposes their own emotional vulnerability, your *immediate* response is to exacerbate a wound so raw, that you WATCHED it bring them to tears?
You, Larry, are a bully, and a coward. SHAME ON YOU for your astonishing cruelty and ignorance. You should be disgusted with your flabbergasting lack of empathy for "they who are heavy laden" and your hypocritical blindness to the suffering and genuine pain YOUR religion (NOT Shannon's) has inflicted on someone.
This response took me 30 minutes to write, because of ALL the things I've seen, heard, and read on the internet, your comment uniquely stands out as one of the most shocking, insensitive, and hypocritical examples of intentional cruelty I've witnessed.
Absolutely disgusting.
@@kelleren4840 Are you related to doctor John?
@@larrychristensen8253 Not even remotely. Nor is it in any way relevant to your comment, or my response.
Even if I was John himself, it would not change the validity of the actual arguments above. If you want to address those, do so directly.
I don't see any reason you would even ask other than to try and discredit the points raised above through some pathetic ad-hominem.
So are you here to apologize/rescind your original statement? Or are you going to dig your heels deeper and stand by your gaslighting, dishonesty, and calloused disregard for another person's pain?
Dear Larry,
As she states in the video, yours is the sentiment of many believing members. But do you understand how hypocritical it is to teach people to “follow the spirit” and “have integrity” and then to condemn them when they receive answers different to what you expected? This woman could not go to the temple or to church because she did not in her heart believe it was true. This was after years of searching.
So many active members don't understand that people don't leave just because they are offended or lazy. They leave because they want to believe and try to believe and pray to believe and cannot.
Not allowing non-members into wedding ceremonies is discrimination based on belief. I don't know what Lord you are talking about that condones this. But the Jesus I read about in the gospels teaches us to love radically and welcome the stranger. That is not what the church does.