I was a coach for decades. This coach did three things very wrong. One, he was disrespectful to the refs. Two, he wouldn't shut up after he was told what was going on. Third, and most importantly, he was TEN FEET into the court. That's a big no-no. If he could have run his mouth on the sidelines, he would have been OK.
he seemed to take it well. He was just asking why the ref called the foul. I was once the nominal coach of a team in a city league. The whistle blows and I say "how is that a foul?" just like I would if I was watching it on TV. To my utter amazement, the ref walks over to me and explained the call.
@@audit_the_frauditors the ref made a shitty call it doesnt really matter, they dont have to call a tech either, that was just a shit call that the coach was confused about
When I ref football games, you approach me with respect and I’ll answer your question every time, you yell at me I’m gonna ignore you, you keep yelling I’m throwing a flag
@@LGTV121, "substations"? I believe "substitutions" is what you meant here, but the point is correct. If there are administrative matters to be addressed, it's better to take a few extra seconds to make sure the foul has been recorded correctly & that any substitutes have entered the game correctly. IAC, the coach spent most of the time in the video on the playing court, so the officials were already giving him plenty of rope.
That was a no call. If anything it was blocking but I would have called it incidental contact. the defenders upper body moved into the offensive player as he was coming down. Then he flopped.
I once had a head coach of a boy’s varsity game yell this at me: “If you don’t start calling fouls, I’m gonna start coaching!” You heard that right. He didn’t say he was gonna STOP coaching. He said he was gonna START coaching. I was like: “Did you say you were gonna START coaching?” He yelled, “That’s what I said!” So I T’d him up. He wanted to know why I gave him a Technical. I said, “Because what you just said was just stupid.” He shrugged his shoulders and kinda grinned, then sat down. Didn’t say another word all night, until he came over and shook my hand at the end of the game and said, “That was the best T anyone’s ever given to me.” I thought he was kidding, or pissed, until I got a call from the Commissioner who told me to tell him about the T. The Commissioner laughed and said, “Coach _____ LOVED it! He told me he wants you on more of his games!” 😂
This is old, but to everyone what the T was, one out side the box for long period of time, yelling at the officials, and yelling for a pro long period of time. Notice how the ref waited till he did it another time. I was never a ref, but I did a few interest meetings, and that is the first thing they generally go over. They try to give coaches some leeway, and depending on the game and prior history, they can let some stuff slide. However, since his actions were delaying the game, kinda had to do it. And the reason why he settled down after the T, I have to double check the rules for GHSA, but once you get a T, you lose the ability to be in the coaches box, and also, getting a 2nd T would be easier since probably pissed the refs off and already had a warning. He took the T in stride, so kudos for the coach for at least getting it reasonable in my eyes.
To clarify, you lose the privilege to stand up and walk up back and forth in the coaches box...one T and you are confined to the bench for the rest of the game...put on that seatbelt!!
@@byronwilliams943 true. Also it gives another point of view. Of the other ref gave the r, the coach can file a complaint saying the ref got emotional. Ref covering refs back
The amount of coaches that don't get this is mind boggling. Like the ref isn't going to suddenly change their mind after coach input. It's not going to help win the game. And in many cases the ref actually has a better angle or the rule is complex and the coach is wrong. Just focus on the players instead of losing mind over the ref
Bro every single person in these comments is dumb ash...ofc the coaches are gonna argue with the refs, they literally tell you as a player to not argue with the refs because he gots it...that coach was just showing passion for his team, the call was controversial and all he did was argue it a little bit, soft ass era we live in nowadays
@@dkilla3513 None of our comments make sense to you because you don’t understand the rules. Coaches are not allowed to carry on and be as demonstrative as that. Do NOT yell across the court at an official. That’s an automatic T every time.
The first thing to do to to tell the coach to step back off of the floor...if he doesn't comply, then hit him with the T...he had been on the floor for a "long" time...it also depends on whether he had violated that line before and been warned in which case, the tech is warranted at this point in time...no obligation to explain an thing, but it IS good for game management unless the coach comes at me foul and nasty
I am a High school Wrestling Coach and I have gotten a few Misconducts because I speak my mind when I don’t agree with a “Bad Decision.” Most of the time, I am protecting my athlete’s safety and I still get hit with a Misconduct. Granted, I am totally fine when an official tells me “Coach I missed it, Sorry.” I am fine with that.
@@apacheking9776 if the offensive player runs into the defender in the air it's an offensive foul. The coach deserved the T he's on the court which you can't do. There's a way to talk to officials and that wasn't it
Ehhh, seen worse not whacked with a T. Now had he gotten it for “that’s not the rule,” yeah. That’s a lose-lose. I mean, the new trail interjected and told him enough was a enough. Continued to yell across the court, opposite sideline to the calling L now C. Perhaps a formal book warning could have been issued too. Of course, idk if he’s been riding an official earlier too.
Not sure what he is complaining about but from what I could see he took the T well didn't argue with the Ref calling the T. I would have to think there was some discussion at some point about him being on the court?
I went to the school that got the T not in 2013 but since then. The coach is a good guy. I don't know what the score is or how the refs had been calling it before this clip. I have seen some bad refs at Messiah Basketball games and good ones. It is D3. If the game is at Messiah the call probably goes the other way. The court says Penn State Harrisburg which is just up the road from Messiah. I loved going to these games! I will admit our Women's team has had more success than our men's team and the coach for the Women's team the better coach.
Several things to consider. Was the defender legal? Was he legal before shooter became airborne? Was he outside of the restricted area? After watching it several times I do believe it was a good call. But it’s hard to tell from this angle if he was outside the restricted area. But it looks like he may have been.
Agree with you. Hated this rule and it was one reason I stopped officiating. Absolutely stupid to take away good defense, which coaches SAY they want to reward (used to hear players tell me all the time they got benefits for taking a charge or the team had to run if they didn't take one in a game, etc.). Yet college wanted to go the way of the NBA and essentially outlaw defense around the basket. Be my guest -- I'm out. Don't even watch basketball anymore. As far as the T, I would have told him to get back in the box and if he didn't, I would have issued it, but different supervisors have their own way of having guys do things. I honestly never cared much for what they SAID as long as they weren't on the court, out of the box, or in rare cases, charging at me (mostly HS). If they kept whining, I just quit talking to them. I told them the first incident that they have a choice -- ask me what I've got and be respectful or whine, yell, scream, etc. and I will ignore them. Then, of course, they go into the whole long argumentative thing, but I end it with, "coach, that's what I had; we're playing ball..." though it rarely ended it. Some other call came up and they forgot about it. Sheesh. I was amazed at how many years these guys could go with an 300/200 blood pressure (it seemed) for an hour and a half at a time!
great T call by the official. the coach was on the court for an extended period of time. T him up. as for the charge, that is a tough call to make at any point of the game. i hate when kids take charges and i hate when kids "flop"
TH3GPS True, but he wasn’t. You can see the semi-circle and the defensive player was outside of it. The coach was wrong. It was close, but he was wrong.
@@th3gps223 actually it is possible for it to be a charge, the arc restriction only is considered if it a secondary defender trying to draw a charge. To be fair to you, not the case in this situation.
@@mattpyper Not sure of the rules in PA high school basketball but the coach was arguing the defensive player was in the circle too close to the basket to take a charge
of course it does in some situations. it's a coach standing up for this players and letting them know that they made the right play and he has their back. it can act as positive reinforcement.
I must admit the T surprises me. Probably doesn't help that it's a small gym so it's not as easy for the ref to ignore the coach. But you regularly see far more animated scenes out of coaches with zero repercussions.
And he's on the floor. That's out of the coach's box. Add that to the yelling, it's a great call. If there were previous warnings, then it's an even better call.
Why do people think they can change a refs call by arguing? Basketball is the worst. I ref’ D through A league games for our town rec leagues. D leaguers could barely dribble let alone know the rules. A leaguers were retired pros and college players and would call fouls on themselves if I missed it. The worst for whining and complaining we the B leaguers. The wannabe A league players. If they missed a shot or tripped over their own feet it must be because somebody fouled them. I hated refing B league games because of the poor sportsmanship and crybaby attitudes.
the ref signaled a player control and team control foul. haha I wish they would just get rid of the player control and just have the team control cuz everyone knows what that means.
@@jordanissport The Player Control Foul signal still exists in both the 2017-18 and 2018-19 editions of the CCA Men's Basketball Officiating Manual. Apparently, NCAA Men's officials are allowed to use either the Player Control Foul or Team Control Foul signal to signal a charge. I am an NFHS official, so I must put my hand behind the head when signaling a charge. However, I stop the clock and punch with the same hand, while putting the other hand behind the head to signal a charge. I assume that my signalling sequence would be an acceptable compromise for both NFHS and CCA Men's Mechanics, should I later become an NCAA official as well. (Of course, NCAA-W only has the punch for team control fouls, with no separate player control foul signal).
@@jordanissport I only do that for player control fouls. By the way, as of this year's CCA Manual, the hand behind the head is now the required player control.foul signal.
So why is he arguing...maybe because the defender set up in the arc and that constitutes a blocking foul due to the arc. So he argues the arc and gets whacked. Double whammy
Only the Head Coach can stand the whole game UNLESS he loses his "Head Coaches Privilege" by having a Technical Foul called on him. Then he has to sit and can only stand during Dead Ball situations. Assistant Coaches do hot get the same Privilege to stand all game. They have to sit all game EXCEPT during Dead Ball situations. So during Timeouts, when the Ball goes Out of Bounds, after a Foul or Violation is called ANY Coach can stand because it is a DEAD BALL. Once the Player has the ball to Inbound it or to Shoot the Free Throw Coaches must sit again because the Ball is now a LIVE BALL. Another Dead Ball people don't think of is after a Shot goes through the Basket and for a few a little bit Coaches can stand. But it is usually a brief chance to stretch the legs because once a player has the ball and is looking to Inbounds it the ball is LIVE again and they must sit.
The coach can give them instruction during technical free throws. As long as the players stay on the court. The team that got the technical could have too if they wanted. During normal free throws they can't huddle up because they are supposed to be lining up for the free throw attempt. So they could get a technical for holding up the progress of the game during a normal foul call. A technical is a dead ball foul that only the shooter is allowed on the line. As long as the team immediately responds once the ref blows his whistle for play to resume.
Embarrassing. No humility. Uncontrolled. Kids get out of the gym. Leave the coaches and refs behind. Get outside on the courts. Get to the ymca. Forget about this organized crap. Over rated silliness.
I was a coach for decades. This coach did three things very wrong. One, he was disrespectful to the refs. Two, he wouldn't shut up after he was told what was going on. Third, and most importantly, he was TEN FEET into the court. That's a big no-no. If he could have run his mouth on the sidelines, he would have been OK.
he seemed to take it well. He was just asking why the ref called the foul. I was once the nominal coach of a team in a city league. The whistle blows and I say "how is that a foul?" just like I would if I was watching it on TV. To my utter amazement, the ref walks over to me and explained the call.
And the ref isn’t obligated to give him an explanation
@@audit_the_frauditors the ref made a shitty call it doesnt really matter, they dont have to call a tech either, that was just a shit call that the coach was confused about
@@Sick654 that’s your opinion
When I ref football games, you approach me with respect and I’ll answer your question every time, you yell at me I’m gonna ignore you, you keep yelling I’m throwing a flag
@@tigerguy1013 some people for some reason think yelling and screaming is going to get them their way
I feel like if they would’ve put the ball in play sooner he wouldn’t have gotten a chance to argue. Get the game going and he’ll be forced to forget.
Teams were subbing
No, coach is out on the floor arguing. You want the game moving faster, then T him up faster.
@@LGTV121, "substations"? I believe "substitutions" is what you meant here, but the point is correct. If there are administrative matters to be addressed, it's better to take a few extra seconds to make sure the foul has been recorded correctly & that any substitutes have entered the game correctly. IAC, the coach spent most of the time in the video on the playing court, so the officials were already giving him plenty of rope.
Those refs would be perfect in the nba
He likely got the T for being well on the court. Honestly his argument, right or wrong, was not that bad.
why is this im my recommended 8 years later🤣?
The official who gave him the T was the other official. Way to have each other's backs
That was a no call. If anything it was blocking but I would have called it incidental contact. the defenders upper body moved into the offensive player as he was coming down. Then he flopped.
I once had a head coach of a boy’s varsity game yell this at me: “If you don’t start calling fouls, I’m gonna start coaching!”
You heard that right. He didn’t say he was gonna STOP coaching.
He said he was gonna START coaching.
I was like: “Did you say you were gonna START coaching?”
He yelled, “That’s what I said!”
So I T’d him up. He wanted to know why I gave him a Technical. I said, “Because what you just said was just stupid.”
He shrugged his shoulders and kinda grinned, then sat down.
Didn’t say another word all night, until he came over and shook my hand at the end of the game and said, “That was the best T anyone’s ever given to me.”
I thought he was kidding, or pissed, until I got a call from the Commissioner who told me to tell him about the T.
The Commissioner laughed and said, “Coach _____ LOVED it! He told me he wants you on more of his games!” 😂
🤣
This is old, but to everyone what the T was, one out side the box for long period of time, yelling at the officials, and yelling for a pro long period of time. Notice how the ref waited till he did it another time.
I was never a ref, but I did a few interest meetings, and that is the first thing they generally go over. They try to give coaches some leeway, and depending on the game and prior history, they can let some stuff slide. However, since his actions were delaying the game, kinda had to do it.
And the reason why he settled down after the T, I have to double check the rules for GHSA, but once you get a T, you lose the ability to be in the coaches box, and also, getting a 2nd T would be easier since probably pissed the refs off and already had a warning. He took the T in stride, so kudos for the coach for at least getting it reasonable in my eyes.
I liked that the ref who gave him the T was the other official. You want to work with me, need to have my back
To clarify, you lose the privilege to stand up and walk up back and forth in the coaches box...one T and you are confined to the bench for the rest of the game...put on that seatbelt!!
@@byronwilliams943 true. Also it gives another point of view. Of the other ref gave the r, the coach can file a complaint saying the ref got emotional. Ref covering refs back
Too many coaches try to coach the officials instead of their players.
The amount of coaches that don't get this is mind boggling. Like the ref isn't going to suddenly change their mind after coach input. It's not going to help win the game. And in many cases the ref actually has a better angle or the rule is complex and the coach is wrong. Just focus on the players instead of losing mind over the ref
Bro every single person in these comments is dumb ash...ofc the coaches are gonna argue with the refs, they literally tell you as a player to not argue with the refs because he gots it...that coach was just showing passion for his team, the call was controversial and all he did was argue it a little bit, soft ass era we live in nowadays
@@dkilla3513 You're welcome to put on the stripes and grab a whistle. We need all the help we can get.
@@chrisarnold6267 huh?
@@dkilla3513 None of our comments make sense to you because you don’t understand the rules. Coaches are not allowed to carry on and be as demonstrative as that. Do NOT yell across the court at an official. That’s an automatic T every time.
The first thing to do to to tell the coach to step back off of the floor...if he doesn't comply, then hit him with the T...he had been on the floor for a "long" time...it also depends on whether he had violated that line before and been warned in which case, the tech is warranted at this point in time...no obligation to explain an thing, but it IS good for game management unless the coach comes at me foul and nasty
I am a High school Wrestling Coach and I have gotten a few Misconducts because I speak my mind when I don’t agree with a “Bad Decision.” Most of the time, I am protecting my athlete’s safety and I still get hit with a Misconduct. Granted, I am totally fine when an official tells me “Coach I missed it, Sorry.” I am fine with that.
he probably got the t for not only being on the court but arguing the call as well. from what I can see the charge was a correct call
It was the right call. He's just mad.
@@MariaSantos-em5jv the offensive foul was a dogshit call though
@@Sick654 What did the defense do wrong? Explain that and your opinion may improve in value.
It was a bad call. The defender jumped up. But the coach did deserve the technical.
@@apacheking9776 if the offensive player runs into the defender in the air it's an offensive foul. The coach deserved the T he's on the court which you can't do. There's a way to talk to officials and that wasn't it
Ehhh, seen worse not whacked with a T. Now had he gotten it for “that’s not the rule,” yeah. That’s a lose-lose. I mean, the new trail interjected and told him enough was a enough. Continued to yell across the court, opposite sideline to the calling L now C. Perhaps a formal book warning could have been issued too. Of course, idk if he’s been riding an official earlier too.
From that angle can't tell if correct call or not.......but D player did look to set up real low in 0 under rim
a coach fighting for his team I LOVE IT
Not sure what he is complaining about but from what I could see he took the T well didn't argue with the Ref calling the T. I would have to think there was some discussion at some point about him being on the court?
Another educational part of high school basketball
This is NCAA
In pro wrestling the zebras get chokeslammed !
I went to the school that got the T not in 2013 but since then. The coach is a good guy. I don't know what the score is or how the refs had been calling it before this clip. I have seen some bad refs at Messiah Basketball games and good ones. It is D3. If the game is at Messiah the call probably goes the other way. The court says Penn State Harrisburg which is just up the road from Messiah. I loved going to these games! I will admit our Women's team has had more success than our men's team and the coach for the Women's team the better coach.
Violation on the shooting team for not being at half court
Hive a chump a whistle n there I go.
i think the sweater vest crew just needs to take it down a notch
Is this at Penn State Hazleton?
Several things to consider. Was the defender legal? Was he legal before shooter became airborne? Was he outside of the restricted area? After watching it several times I do believe it was a good call. But it’s hard to tell from this angle if he was outside the restricted area. But it looks like he may have been.
Agree with you. Hated this rule and it was one reason I stopped officiating. Absolutely stupid to take away good defense, which coaches SAY they want to reward (used to hear players tell me all the time they got benefits for taking a charge or the team had to run if they didn't take one in a game, etc.). Yet college wanted to go the way of the NBA and essentially outlaw defense around the basket. Be my guest -- I'm out. Don't even watch basketball anymore. As far as the T, I would have told him to get back in the box and if he didn't, I would have issued it, but different supervisors have their own way of having guys do things. I honestly never cared much for what they SAID as long as they weren't on the court, out of the box, or in rare cases, charging at me (mostly HS). If they kept whining, I just quit talking to them. I told them the first incident that they have a choice -- ask me what I've got and be respectful or whine, yell, scream, etc. and I will ignore them. Then, of course, they go into the whole long argumentative thing, but I end it with, "coach, that's what I had; we're playing ball..." though it rarely ended it. Some other call came up and they forgot about it. Sheesh. I was amazed at how many years these guys could go with an 300/200 blood pressure (it seemed) for an hour and a half at a time!
Is this a HS game? if so, there is no RS area.
@@treanthony7336 no this is college
Nice shot will
The coach is right on this one, refs blew the call.
You mean the play that you can't see?
I tend to agree, the defensive player was still moving while the offensive player was going up for his shot. Shoulda been a no call.
Where was this
100% a charge. Not sure why the coach made his stand on that play.
great T call by the official. the coach was on the court for an extended period of time. T him up.
as for the charge, that is a tough call to make at any point of the game. i hate when kids take charges
and i hate when kids "flop"
It’s not possible for it to be a charge if the defensive man is in the restricted area, which is what he’s saying.
TH3GPS True, but he wasn’t. You can see the semi-circle and the defensive player was outside of it. The coach was wrong. It was close, but he was wrong.
@@th3gps223 actually it is possible for it to be a charge, the arc restriction only is considered if it a secondary defender trying to draw a charge. To be fair to you, not the case in this situation.
Desperate and whiny. That's how he is.
The coach was arguing the defensive player was in the restricted area..very close call
There is no restricted area in high school basketball.
@@mattpyper Not sure of the rules in PA high school basketball but the coach was arguing the defensive player was in the circle too close to the basket to take a charge
There's a rule against the coach stepping onto the court. T them up the first time they do it. One more and they're gone.
Penn St?
As all the political folks would say “context” what’s happened before this call?
Great stuff
Great charge call - not sure about the tech tho.
He is on the court delaying a game perfectly justified T we dont have to go into the yelling and stuff either
Does deliberately drawing a technical really work to motivate a team?
No
It did for my dad years ago. Won regionals :-)
Idk...seemed to work for Bobby Knight, Rollie Massimino, Al Mcguire and John Thompson.
@@russs7574 No. They didn't win because of losing their shit with the refs. They won because of better players and better coaching.
of course it does in some situations. it's a coach standing up for this players and letting them know that they made the right play and he has their back. it can act as positive reinforcement.
I must admit the T surprises me. Probably doesn't help that it's a small gym so it's not as easy for the ref to ignore the coach. But you regularly see far more animated scenes out of coaches with zero repercussions.
he could have been riding them all game. he had almost no reaction to the T. almost like he expected it at some point.
And he's on the floor. That's out of the coach's box. Add that to the yelling, it's a great call. If there were previous warnings, then it's an even better call.
Why do people think they can change a refs call by arguing? Basketball is the worst. I ref’ D through A league games for our town rec leagues. D leaguers could barely dribble let alone know the rules. A leaguers were retired pros and college players and would call fouls on themselves if I missed it. The worst for whining and complaining we the B leaguers. The wannabe A league players. If they missed a shot or tripped over their own feet it must be because somebody fouled them. I hated refing B league games because of the poor sportsmanship and crybaby attitudes.
High school or college it's still a T.
the ref signaled a player control and team control foul. haha I wish they would just get rid of the player control and just have the team control cuz everyone knows what that means.
are you a fucking psychic? we got rid of that signal this year! i see your comment is from over a year ago. bravo sir
@@jordanissport The Player Control Foul signal still exists in both the 2017-18 and 2018-19 editions of the CCA Men's Basketball Officiating Manual. Apparently, NCAA Men's officials are allowed to use either the Player Control Foul or Team Control Foul signal to signal a charge. I am an NFHS official, so I must put my hand behind the head when signaling a charge. However, I stop the clock and punch with the same hand, while putting the other hand behind the head to signal a charge. I assume that my signalling sequence would be an acceptable compromise for both NFHS and CCA Men's Mechanics, should I later become an NCAA official as well. (Of course, NCAA-W only has the punch for team control fouls, with no separate player control foul signal).
That's the first thing I saw too.
@@ilyazhitomirskiy9218 you should not be putting your hand behind your head for team or player control foul. Punch and go.
@@jordanissport I only do that for player control fouls. By the way, as of this year's CCA Manual, the hand behind the head is now the required player control.foul signal.
So why is he arguing...maybe because the defender set up in the arc and that constitutes a blocking foul due to the arc. So he argues the arc and gets whacked. Double whammy
Coach needs to sit down after tech. Why is more than one coach standing up from team?
silencedknight this appears to be college basketball. Coaches do not lose the box for a tech
silencedknight NCAA Division 3.....
Jeffrey McCloskey same rules apply, NCAA I, II, or III, and NAIA
Only the Head Coach can stand the whole game UNLESS he loses his "Head Coaches Privilege" by having a Technical Foul called on him.
Then he has to sit and can only stand during Dead Ball situations. Assistant Coaches do hot get the same Privilege to stand all game.
They have to sit all game EXCEPT during Dead Ball situations.
So during Timeouts, when the Ball goes Out of Bounds, after a Foul or Violation is called ANY Coach can stand because it is a DEAD BALL.
Once the Player has the ball to Inbound it or to Shoot the Free Throw Coaches must sit again because the Ball is now a LIVE BALL.
Another Dead Ball people don't think of is after a Shot goes through the Basket and for a few a little bit Coaches can stand.
But it is usually a brief chance to stretch the legs because once a player has the ball and is looking to Inbounds it the ball is LIVE again and they must sit.
It’s sapose to be a technical foul on the away coach too you can’t coach your team while shooting free throws
The coach can give them instruction during technical free throws. As long as the players stay on the court. The team that got the technical could have too if they wanted. During normal free throws they can't huddle up because they are supposed to be lining up for the free throw attempt. So they could get a technical for holding up the progress of the game during a normal foul call. A technical is a dead ball foul that only the shooter is allowed on the line. As long as the team immediately responds once the ref blows his whistle for play to resume.
Real significant game what with 150 people there
Coach asked for a tech and got it. Get off the floor coach.
LeBron James would be proud
Seems like it's d same ref n all these bogus t's
What happens if you head-butt a ref?
Ejection from the game and suspension.
You knock the ref out
Assault charges actually
Stay off the court
That was not a charge,,,,, Just sayin
well it's not clickbait.. but I was expecting something more exciting to happen
Haha I know. Hardly worth it. But, then again, here I am.
Embarrassing. No humility. Uncontrolled. Kids get out of the gym. Leave the coaches and refs behind. Get outside on the courts. Get to the ymca. Forget about this organized crap. Over rated silliness.
Cheap call
Fr
Lol funny cuz I just got a tech today and in only 11
Vince McMahon same
Same
Refs gotta have a little thicker skin than that...
It was cuz the coach was warned to get off the playing surface and didn't, can't delay the game like that.
++
White doesn’t get a free timeout. Get the kids on the center line.
18 yr old reffing a game?
When you don't have the ability to play... and don't know enough to coach.... the you ref
2 horrible calls!
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