Battletech: 40K Refugees, is the Grass Really Greener?
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
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This week we explore whether or not the claims that Battletech is a blessed and sacred refuge for disenfranchised Warhammer 40K players, are in fact true. We'll compare and contrast the two offerings and see why it is that specifically Battletech, seems to be where people are landing, for their life after 40K.
I’ve dabbled in Battletech in the past, but when their Kickstarter came along in… 2019? with significantly improved models, my interest level went up considerably. I haven’t played 40K since 7th edition and while GW still has their hooks in me with their “boxed games” (Blood Bowl, Adeptus Titanicus, Necromunda) I’m pretty wary of their DLC-style sales strategy. They’re going to take you for every dollar/pound/euro they can given the opportunity. I don’t have to feel like a confessed drug addict playing Battletech and that’s a refreshing change from the GW lifestyle. ;-) Also: subbed to your channel, having found you via the previous “5 alternatives to GW” video and this one. We seem to be on the same page when it comes to wargaming. :-D
shame you can't get any any more.. I like painting minis and want minis to paint if I was going to get back into it
@@Sugar_K don't worry! Covid and the suez canal did a number on the battletech supply, but you can often find the boxes at your local Barnes and Noble and the second wave of the kickstarter is delivering as we speak, so other retailers should have plenty of stock very soon!
@@Insaniac99 You can also find some pretty close analogues for a rather good price with Reaper's CAV line.
@@Sugar_K You can always 3D print models to paint and use.
@@KillerofGods I don't get why the community doesn't just take over 40k as it has been doing and turn their skills over to SLA printers
i once said that a way to describe Battletech and 40k differences setting-wise is.. Warhammer 40k is a setting about mankind dealing with the horrors and atrocities of the universe while Battletech is more about the universe dealing with the horrors and atrocities of mankind.
With mobs like Snord's Irregulars having a grand ol' time.
That's good. I'm gonna use that.
In a lot of way, 40K is the struggle of humanity against a cruel, uncaring universe, while Battletech really is just mankind having exported, politics, wars, famines and every other human problem into their little sector of the Milky Way (look it up, the Inner Sphere is TINY - I think Ultramar is genuinely bigger).
In 40K, the future is grim; in Battletech, the future is much like the past: kinda shitty, but still handleable and quite humane.
@@Akranejames The future is Tuesday.
I used to think that Battletech was the Thirty Years' War -- IN SPACE! However, all the horrors in the Thirty Years' War were inflicted by foreign mercenaries. Battletech is actually the Diodache (the break up of Alexander the Great's empire after his generals all squabbled for power, after his death) -- IN SPACE!
One of the things that battletech is really good at is its ability to smoothly mesh its tabletop and roleplaying games. Being able to play a DnD style game where you and your fellow players create a futuristic top gun crew where your stats carry over to the tabletop and where your characters can be permanently killed is an amazing experience.
I didn't know they had a roleplaying game. Now I'm definitely interested.
WHERE HOW DO I DO THIS
@@BAGELMENSK Mechwarrior: Destiny is the rpg side of the game. Don't need miniatures or a hexmap at all to play it. The book, however, has sections how to convert your created character over to the table top side of the game (battletech classic rules or alpha strike rules).
Does that require a GM?
@@dickbison Yep
The real funny thing is that, as most grogs can tell you, Battletech was the og king of wargaming, but it got gutted hard by legal battles back in the day, which left a void that 40k grew into. This isn't an exodus, this is the hobby coming home.
THE RETURN OF THE CLANS
Fantasy/science fiction wargaming maybe. Historical wargaming is significantly older.
@@winterine4827 Nope. Those will have to wait another 1030 years or so. I'm more reminded of the return of the Northwind Highlanders though. When shit is looking dire and all of a sudden you begin to hear bagpipes across all radio frequencies, you KNOW what is about to happen....
Yo we may well get a proper BT TV series if enough demand exists.
@@ranekeisenkralle8265 of course - you've unleashed THE Black Watch! Sorry, missed that part with Northwind Highlanders, who succeeded Black Watch.
GW: You want that special one-off model? Give us £45!
Catalyst: SURPRISE! WE SNUCK A FREE SHILONE MODEL INTO YOUR BOX!
This next example will be more IWM but still: "We took a poll from you fans and decided the next mini we're working on is this one... Now who wants to chip in money for the master mold? All your cash is credit for your account and you'll be helping us bring a new mini to life!"
Yeah the differences between the companies is rather alarming.
@@Atlas3060 and IWM will make bits for you if the bit is not already on the website they will set you up like GW did 10+ years ago
Mantic did me dirty the same way that one time.
"What's this? I didn't even order this! How dare they try and slip something extra into my order for free! ... Oooooooh."
@@Atlas3060 Games workshop is a publicly traded corperation that has to answer to it's shareholders. CGL is owned by one dude more or less (Loren L Coleman) and it's basicly a company "for the fans" GW thus wants to "make as much of a profit as possiable for it's share holders" (in fact as I understand it they're legally obligated to do so) CGL is basicly a small company whose main goal is to "keep battletech alive now that FASA has folded"
@@Atlas3060 That sounds so cool!
A note on the 80s Battletech cartoon: Its so bad that its actually part of the official lore now as in-universe propaganda for the planet it is based on.
It was made in the 90s actually.
@Couchsader No Remote The best part, That is actually what Happened when the Actual Nicolai Malthus saw the Cartoon.
It did not go over well for him.
The interesting part is that, though it is propaganda, the characters in the show do technically exist in BT canon. The events are fictionalized versions of something that did somewhat happen.
Also Adam Steiner becomes Archon of the Lyran Commonwealth. Granted, this is after the LyrCom goes through a devastating civil war and then gets its capital besieged and their current Archon assassinated.
So basically he gets picked because... there's nobody else left alive and it can't possibly get worse for them ;)
That's a bit of a tongue-in-cheek description of course; Adam does manage the LyrCom pretty well and he's not a bad military commander. But there is definitely the sense throughout it of "everybody else is dead or unavailable, so let's go with that guy".
It's not really bad at all.
@@tanith117 The part where he got publicly humiliated or the part where he got dogpiled by bailiffs when the presiding judge "dared to refuse my batchall?"
I actually feel like I SHOULD give Catalyst Game Labs money, even when they offer so much stuff for free. I WANT their attitude and approach to win.
The Initial impression when they took over was a bit mixed, since they spliced parts of the rulesystem over multiple books... and you know grumpy boomers. But the recent publications are quite nice, because they did the opposite and merged what was formerly scattered over multiple publications* (the TechManual Book is excellent).
* I know, I know, technically Master Rules, but come on. Catalyst Expanded on the System and compiled everything (in terms of equip) so far into one single book. So the newcommers won´t have to hunt on Ebay for the Aerotech and Civil War/Dark Age Supplements. And don´t forget that they kept franchise alive without screwing it over *cough Wizkids *cough*
I would LOVE to give Catalyst Game Labs some money, but it's impossible to find their miniatures. It'd be nice if they could actually keep up with demand, because they made these lovely minis, but if you didn't actually learn about it until after the Kickstarter was closed (like me), it is apparently impossible to get your hands on any of them!
@@bronco5334 The Kickstarter is in fulfillment now and they should have a lot more stock by the middle of September.
If you have issues with how GW does business, look into CGL. They're scummy in ways that GW would never even dream of.
@@DaddyWarCrimes78 Yeah I know... :/ Went away from the game when they took over the franchise due to senseless splicing of the rules.
For a brief second I thought the bettered themselves, but trying to get into the campaignstuff made me roll my eyes...
in a certain way one has to admire (in a bad way) how they manage stuff 150 rulebook pages with useless nonsense, only to justify spreading the relevant stuff over 4 publications where in the before times 1 (maybe 2) book(s) was enough.
Not to speak of the micro changes like increasing hex sizes on new maps to invalidate old ones *sigh*
Early BattleTech was pretty grim, and personally I love the pre-Clan setting the most; it was very wild-feudal-west, where might made right. It had a great moral ambiguity to it that is hard to find. Failure often meant death, so it was always a question of what were you willing to do to succeed? It was very knightly too. Fights weren't to the death but until one side felt they could no longer win, and would surrender if they could not retreat; often fighting was the last thing anyone wanted to do because mech parts were so hard to come by. You lost? well you might be able to ransom back your mech. Are you a PBI who just chanced upon a wreck? Be the first to claim it as salvage! You're now a noble mechwarrior.... with a huge repair bill. But a mechwarrior none the less, so congratulations.
In the original Black widow Company source book, the most feared mechs of the most elite and successful mercenary unit of the inner sphere, some 10 of the 12 mechs had permanent damage. Only 2 or 3 were pristine. And that is a successful merc company, so you can imagine how it must've been for the not-so-successful.
You're absolutely right. They took inspiration from an anime called Dougram (which I highly recommend) to make a universe about water barons and feudal lords in a Mad Max setting of disrepair after a golden era of [enforced] interstellar harmony. Time was kind to the Inner Sphere and technology rebounded to allow for mass production and progress that was previously unknown. With new villainous factions, both internal and external, and the eventual blackout of the communications network, various eras in the centuries of conflict allows for some very different tones of settings as a backdrop.
But always remember to pay your bills, fucko.
@@tetsatou2815 "And thank you for choosing ComStar!"
@@Andulvar It's a good thing I didn't use 'grimdark' then.
@@Nitram4392 Watch out for Space AT&T! They'll get ya good.
I've loved the BattleTech universe since I first encountered the Mechwarrior 2 computer game, I love the tabletop game, the novels and the video games. The ONLY downside to battletech, and it is a big one: A vastly smaller audience and fewer people to play against. if this current issue with GW leads to more Battletech players than I'll be happy, even without my 40K.
Indeed. The smaller audience is a real thing.
My approach is that I ordered several extra lances in the Kickstarter to paint up and build back-stories for. I'll tweak them so they play a little differently but are still balanced. That way I can offer someone a choice of complete lances to play based on how they like to game.
MW2 was my gateway drug too :-D
Log onto Mechwarrior Online, the game is growing. MechWarrior 5 got a pretty massive update and, to be honest, got a lot easier.
Haven't played 4K, but I do know that Battle Tech can be taught to basic competency in 20 minutes or so. Not Mech design and such, but the move and shoot stuff required to play a match.
@@nexusdrop7863 That is a video game.
I agree with what you say here. I have the opposite perspective. I was exposed to Battletech in my childhood. Initially through the video games. It wasn't until just before 9th dropped that I started with Warhammer 40k. The biggest issue with Battletech tabletop has always been how few people play it. I am someone who like to play the game first and foremost. I do enjoy the hobby side, but I am a game player first. As you know, my excitement for Battletech is at an all time high right now.
The sad problem with the complaint of "Few people play it" is that is a perpetuating problem. What I mean by that is, everyone saying "There isn't enough people so I won't play either." well then how can it ever grow if people keep that sort of mentality, that just keeps it with very few playing. I am hoping that this might turn that around, more people deciding few play it now but with people leaving GW maybe more will start. So good to hear despite the lack of players you seem excited for it.
@@Actalzy I've got 3 lances of models plus infantry and apcs, so I can introduce people to the game if they're interested ^_^
You might try just hosting a few games at a game store. I've found that if you do that invariably old battletech players come crawling out of the woodwork.
@@Insaniac99 Before the pandemic, I ran a couple introductory games at my FLGS. Every time, I got a decent player turnout as well as a couple people walking up to the table saying how much they used to love the game back in the day. Once circumstances allow for it, I'm going to try to get a lot of those older players (and some new ones, too) together and hopefully get a regular Battletech day going.
@@josephjones6520 That's great to hear. I can't wait to start hosting games at my FLGS too!
just wanna say that I have fallen in love with the battle tech lore, first started listening about the Amaris civil war by Tex talks BattleTech. and my god the Black watch are just amazing, and they nearly ended their version of the horus heresy by themselves. I think not having giant demigods to actually make things happen makes the setting feel more human, we do not need a giant god to tell us what to do. and the games for Battletech are so much better all Mechwarrior games are just amazing.
The lore really is very addictive, and Tex delivers it fantastically 👌
Honestly, seeing all these 40k players moving over to battletech is like watching a herd of slaves being freed if I'm honest. I've been absolutely disgusted with how GW price gouge, deflate, ridicule, and harass their fan base. The absolute obscene amount of money one has to put out for a decent army is just insane compared to that of Battletech (or really any other game/hobby out there)
So I welcome the new Battletech players. Welcome to a better, safer, and more enjoyable hobby, game, and community. We aren't run by companies who seek to sue their own fan creators into the dirt. We aren't run by people who hate their own lore. (Not all of it is perfect. But ratio wise is wonderful)
Welcome, to actual greener pastures.
Thank you! I'm really looking forward to turning those pastures into smoking craters in a Catapult!
@@Parktrizzle ahhh good choice. Van never go wrong in a trusty Catapult
@@Wildcat144 I tell my 40k buddies, hey I finally found a game with "enuff daka". Lol
@@Parktrizzle can never have enuff dakka. Only Battletech does it better x3
@@Parktrizzle Enjoy your War Crimes!
And remember:
*Don't Feed the Emerald Budgies.*
If your loving Mercenary Star and Decision at Thunder Rift, then good sir I can promise you the Warrior Trilogy will have you loving Battletech even more - Warrior En Garde will have you chocking up; Warrior Riposte will have you wide mouthed with possibly the biggest and best announcement of war you’ll ever see in fiction; and warriors coup will have you smirking warmly going “well played”
I want him to make a reaction video of him reading that and realizing everything involved.
@@GundamChief a reaction video woud be like a... lovely dessert...
The only problem with the Warrior Trilogy is the twist at the end. It doesn't have the same "Oh. My. God." impact unless you've read "The Sword and the Dagger" by Ardath Mayhar (which wasn't easy to find, even way back in the day).
I'm personally a Gray Death Legion guy myself but both series are incredible. But in the Warrior trilogy's favor it is available entirely on audiobook.
The old novels are amazing. Everything written by Stackpole back then was beyond amazing. I read those books so many time they turned yellow and started falling apart. I even had a dog named Morgan.
One slight correction: Iron Wind Metals has a license for making minis for Battletech, they are not a 3rd party mini maker per se.
Licensed manufacture IS 3rd party. 3rd party just means "not the owner of the IP."
@@TesseractMinis yeah but the distinction I would like to make is that IWM was the sole provider of minis for a number of periods of Battletech's existence so that kinda makes things different. 1994 to 2007 was a period in which no plastic or in fact any minis were released from 1st party sources leavin the whole mini making side of the IP to IWM. So them advertising IWM is no surprise considering the 1st party minis cover only a fraction of official units.
@@TesseractMinis Well, IIRC there never was a first party to begin with. FASA licenced out the production of miniatures early on, to among other Ral Partha and Citadel and IWM got the license later on. GW didn't originally make minis either, they started as a distributor for D&D, then carried minis by Citadel and the Citadel asked them to develop a game where people would use more of their minis than in an RPG setting. GW made Warhammer and ultimately Citadell bought them, then used their name for the combined company. AFAIK the only minis Catalyst makes are the Plastic sets and they don't manufacture in house. Citadel/GW is primarily a miniature company, which added games design, retail and fiction around a core of manufacturing. All 3 companies resposible for BT over time (FASA, FanPro and now Catalyst) were/are publishing houses, which mainly produces rules and fiction and license out their IP.
@@simongunkel7457 IWM is a Ral Partha subsidiary iirc
@@cptncutleg It's a lot more convoluted. Ral Partha started as a US miniature maker and they set up a deal with Citadel to produce and distribute for them in the US, while Citadel would do the same for Ral Partha in Europe. Some time later FASA gets started, eventually makes BT and SR and licenses out mini making to Ral Partha. Citadel ends up setting up their own manufacturing in the US and their capabilities in the UK are hatd pressed to meet the demand in Warhammer minis, so they don't continue the deal. Ral Partha buys Minifigs in the UK and rebrands it as Ral Partha Europe. Late stage FASA has a go at being GW and buys the original US manufacturing from Ral Partha, but not the brand, so Ral Partha Europe is the only Ral Partha left. The US portion, now a subsidiary of FASA rebrands as IWM and becomes an independent company again when FASA goes bust. Both IWM and Ral Partha retain BT licenses, though all the FASA, WizKids, fanpro, catalyst turmoil. IWM licensed the brand Ral Partha from Ral Partha for a special product line.
I dabbled in battletech universe here and there mostly in the pc games. Once I read the Grey Death Legion trilogy I was hooked. I would highly recommend the Warrior trilogy next. It's such a fantastic series and absolutely blew me away. If nothing else at least read/listen to those books.
Absolutely! 👍🏻👍🏻
The warrior trilogy were the first three books I read, and it provided an awesome summary of the universe.
Warrior Trilogy 30th Anniversary is on the shelf at Barnes & Noble now. I picked one up yesterday.
Kinda laughing at how lengthy and in depth all this analysis is 35 years later. Back in the 80's when we played both games in a basement, over a weekend, on a piece of ply wood set up on saw horses, up all nights eating pizza's from Little Caesar's(who else remembers Double Double?) and 2 liters of coke and 7up, suffice to simply say that we loved them both. So simple. Play it. Enjoy it. Carry on. Anyway, yeah. Have fun out there!
Little Caesars commercials were great.
Beyond the human aspect of Battletech's lore and fiction, the geopolitics, military strategy and so on tend to make more sense. If you have an interest in history, especially military history, things often seem to shake out in a way that feels realistic. While the lore has a few conceits to make big stompy robots a thing, they're all well-excused, and there's some great harder sci-fi concepts at play too. If Warhammer 40k is Dune, then Battletech is The Expanse.
For me at least, it's refreshing to see sides winning and losing in the lore for a REASON and not just because one of them happens to be 'The Good Guys.' All of the Battletech factions get treated with reverence and respect for their abilities and situation, while 40k lumps all its focus on The Imperium and actually tends to shit pretty harshly on fans of other factions. I liked Eldar when I played and quit because I started to feel genuinely insulted by GW. Since I was little I liked the Clans in Battletech, but I never felt insulted when they lost because it made sense when they did.
I mean both 40k and Battletech are Dune, just different sides of it.
40k is Dune's scale. Billions of worlds, Thousands of years of life, Grand palaces that could fit any modern cathedral in the front lobby.
BT is Dune's politics. Houses vying for control, honour duels to avoid nukes, technology going weird ways due to constraints and limitations.
Even Dune's idea of future sight wasn't outlandish. Mix a human computer with the knowledge from their previous lives. Able to run billions of calculations and having access to ancestral memories allows you to predict the future with some pretty good accuracy.
@@SendarSlayer Battletech is, IMHO, a combination of Dune and Isaac Azimov's Foundation. Before the Clan invasion Comstar more or less represented The Foundation maintaining a high level of technology while the rest of the galaxy went into a dark age and could no longer build replace mechs factories or build new ones.
I hardly see either series as Dune, they're both unique and do sci-fi proper justice, especially the battles.
@@starager73I've not read foundation, but I don't know if you agree or not, but I think people seem to miss that before the clans/losttech, battletech was like mad max but with battlemechs, and I wish there would be more emphasis on the technological decline!?
Kinda funny that some 40k players went on an exodus to Battletech when there literally was the Sldf exodus in the lore
And then, a thousand years later, the (Ork) klanz returned.
Their message to the inner sphere? 'ERE WE GO, 'ERE WE GO, 'ERE WE GO, WAAAAAGH!
And just like the SLDF they are going to warp Battletech into something completely different from what we loved.
One thing I've appreciated was the ease of trying the game. Some colleagues and I downloaded the free rules, some paper counters and mech cards, set up a map, and were jumping right into the game in a couple hours. We've since bought multiple mini packs and hard copy books because we really enjoyed the trial and wanted to invest more into the system.
I remember playing Battletech in the early 90ies, when the world was still okay
First….awesome painted bull shark. I didn’t even know battletech was still played as a late eighties and nineties player and min collector (quite a few of the old lead machines). When we played it was all about building a mech that could last the longest with being soft on ammo. Great balanced vid🤠
Long time BT player and former 40K player (5e and back) here in the States. Battletech has had a resurgence in the last several years between the release of various video games, the new resculpts of the classic mech designs from TRO 3025 and 3050, and the lack of major changes to the game system. You can pick up a BT unit from 1985, plop in down in a game in 2021, and it will function almost identically to when it was first released. Battletech also doesn't have any issues with using proxy units for play. It was designed as the start as a beer and pretzels sci-fi wargame, and it shows.
GW adopted the 3 year software plan for both their rules and miniature designs when they went public. They emphasized video game/media development over standard rules sets, and their overabid defense of their IPs obviously turned off many fans. The other thing that GW continues to insist on is that older models can't be used in tournament play. Their minis and rules are also hugely expensive, especially to overseas customers and stores.
In conclusion, I would recommend BT to 40K players if you like easy to use rules, a less grim dark settings, no aliens or psychic powers, and tactical variety.
And are more intreasted in buying books for the lore then for new OP rules. as someone who still plays both games THAT seems to be the biggest differance between the games and player bases. 40k operates a bit on a "power creep treadmill" you need to keep buying books etc to get the latest and greatest rules for your faction. codices, codex supplements, campaign books, and then a new edition starts and it comes all over again. and, as much as they claim they dislike it... this is what the fanbase WANTS. because when GW has released a rules lite, fluff heavy book (for example the sub faction supplements during 6th edition which where almost all fluff and a page of sidegrade rules) people hated it. in battletech this is the NORM.
@@briandavion Yeah, I was getting into 40k back during 4th and it had been years since they released a new edition so when word of 5th being released we all jumped in and paid the extra $$ for the Collectors edition rule books. We justified the expense as it had been YEARS since the last update.....only for GW to invalidate 5th less than a year later with the release of 6th....OH how we were PISSED. We did not get to enjoy a whole year with the new edition and books we paid extra for to get the collectors edition. All of us basically walked out after that.
@@AD-1138 err 5th edition was released in 2008. 6th edition was 2012. 4th edition, for the record, was 2004.so 4 years in between each edition. it was 6th to 7th that had a VERY short duration, sure you're not thinking of that?
@@briandavion Gah, yes, my bad. It's been a while since I looked.
@@AD-1138 yeah the 6th to 7th jump was nuts; granted unless you play space marines (I do BTW) you didn't nesscarily get a new codex for 7th if you got one in 6th. with 8th and 9th editions we now get a codex for each faction... means the book churn is more but at least your not stuck with a crappy codex for years on end. another benifit of battletech TBH is everyone uses the same stuff, more or less. sure you're told that a Capellan lance is more likely to include these mechs and a davion lance those mechs but at the same time thats pure flavor and ultimately nothing stops you from running a men shen, a templar and a hauptman all at the same time
Battletech has one of the simplest and most comprehensive combat systems I've ever seen its beautifully elegant. And the mechs are readily printable for virtually nothing.
A lot of people think that 40K's broader success is an indicator that it's "better". But it's a fallacy to equate popularity with quality. Popularity merely indicates an appeal to the lowest common denominator. No one would ever contend that McDonald's makes the best food in the world. It's hardly fine dining.
Simple economics:
That which appeals to the lowest common denominator will have broader appeal than more sophisticated alternatives.
No, I don't think it's a matter of appealing to the lowest common denominator in this case. 40k just has A LOT of factions. If one doesn't appeal to you, another might.
I have next-to-0 interest in the Imperium, especially the more militaristic aspects like the Imperial Guard. If there was nothing to 40k except Space Marines punching each other then I wouldn't be into 40k. Incidentally I'm also not into 30k because that's basically what 30k is.
But I love the sleek design of T'au armor and battlesuits and their utilitarian and morally grey attempt to try to carve out a hopeful and somewhat egalitarian way of life in a universe that is otherwise a terrible place to live. Also, even though I don't like Space Marines, I do love the super hammy evil space wizard vibe and lore of the Thousand Sons. Even in factions I don't collect, I also love the space elf aesthetic of the Craftworlds eldar, and the orks are always good fun. Also like the video said, if you want monsters like the tyranids, they have that covered, too.
Battletech (as an example) doesn't that kind of variety. It seems like I'm just looking at something akin to the Imperial Guard (one of my least favorite factions) except with mechs that aren't as cool looking (to me) as T'au battlesuits. Also, as you can probably guess, I'm less into realism and more into fantastical elements like aliens and magic, and Battletech doesn't offer that at all. So unfortunately I'm not in the demographic for what they're selling.
That doesn't make Battletech bad, it's just focused on a very specific niche which I'm not in. But 40k does appeal to my interests, and the fact that I can see the elements I like interacting with the elements other people like makes it fun. Like we're expressing our individual tastes through our armies.
Microsoft has shown the power of a good marketing department
@@Zakon673 I didn't imply that 40k caters to the lowest common denominator, I am simply stating why popularity does not correlate with quality. AOL was once the most popular ISP in the country, but it was always a steaming turd.
Very few things, if any, have a quality equal to their popularity. 40K maybe could if GW cared about more than the almighty dolla.
Your McDonalds analogy works on two levels, since they also charge jaw-dropping prices for something you would assume should be fairly cheap.
As someone who plays neither game system but enjoys the fluff of both, the Battletech novels/books are far better written and more engaging than the 40k ones.
Thanks for the vid! :)
As someone who, as you can see from the video, has consumed WAY more 40K books than BT... I agree.
I’ve been more invested in the 40k lore than the game. Yet been fairly picky about which authors / subjects I choose.
Is it more that battle tech novels are better written in general (they are collectively better) or that the peaks are better or both?
Having just listened to a sample of a battle tech audiobook, the style reminds me more of mainstream sci-fi authors like John Scalzi than the 40k novels. Now I’m trying to figure out why the 40k novels feel different 🤔
British narrators probably does a lot. But I'm definitely finding I prefer the Battletech audiobooks.
@@marcjohnson5991 I feel like, for a large portion of the 40k books, the experience they are trying to relate or the perspective the author is trying to write from is too far removed from their experience (and ours) to write properly or relate to easily.
Battletech has the advantage of most people having learnt to drive a car or imagined piloting a machine from a cockpit. Therefore the stretch is less for both author and reader.
I always like to sum up Battletech as Game of Thrones in Space ;)
Our Dragons are either the actual mech or someone managed to fly on a Branth! lol
Is the grass greener? Short Answer: How do you feel about charts and combat spreadsheets?
Really though, as someone who plays both, I really like btech. I think it lends itself more to narrative gameplay. Not everyone has the same 3 named characters in every list, and depending on what 'era' you choose to play, there are a lot more interesting choices baked into each unit you choose to bring to the table. Just a lot of fun all around.
Another route would be historicals.
Warlord makes alot of nifty historical stuff
Edit: I feel as though a big part of the difference between Catalyst and Games Workshop is the former is doing everything they can to stay alive, and the later most likely just doesn't really care that much because they're "the big kid on the block".
Good vid too, thank you.
Historicals will do wonders for the 40k fans that are moving out of 40k in a tantrum, seeing as a lot of them love bootlicking fascistic regimes they'll be able to do it even more with that.
Not really any need for this kinda unprovoked aggression is there? I hate a Nazi as much as the next person, but this is just being needlessly contentious. Behave.
Simply making a jab at one of the worst parts of a fanbase that has put me right off battletech, at least the community. Thought it'd be funny but I suppose not.
Look into Blood & Plunder by Firelock games if you like historicals 28mm skirmish/small engagement size 17th and early 18th century with 28mm scaled ships
Warlord also makes Judge Dredd and Beyond the Gates of Antares. 40K steals so heavily from JD that the setting ought to feel pretty familiar, and Gates is by Andy Chambers, uses the popular and quite good Bolt Action engine. Both ranges have rather a lot of very nice sculpts, although newer GW ex-fans will need to get used to metal figs as well as plastics.
Speaking as someone who first played wizkids mechwarrior dark age, then battletech (blood angels, elder, and tau), and having bought the recent clan invasion box set for battletech, I would say battletech is better, the resources for armies and lore are all readily available and super cheap (compared to having to drop 600 on terrain, 100 on rules book, upwards of 1500 on an army), I’ve spent probably 300 total on battletech and have more than enough for a fun game night with the wife. Another plus is the community seems better, far less elitist and snobby than in wh40k. But to each their own, enjoy what you enjoy and whatever you pick at least have fun doing it.
Dude mech warrior dark age was getting good but they never finished it still have all mad-cat’s mks 1-4 and the jihad mechs that did some much damage but I tried 40K and it was too fucken toxic in the community like I can recast models of my army and 3D print some old one that are not sellable any more all and all battletech and mech warrior in general are still my top 5 favorite games sadly halo beats all for it is my favorite
My VERY FIRST miniatures for Battletech were from the Republic of the Sphere from the Clicktech game. It was the thing that really got me into the tabletop portion of the fandom. Before that? Mechwarrior 4 and Mechwarrior 4 Mercenaries (with _DUCAN FISHER_ doing commentary! I never had commentary like that before that point) were my go-to stuff with all sorts of Dark Age books filling my _ABSOLUTE NEED_ for scifi novels. ;)
Glad to see another republic player, Highlander/republic was was I chose, new age of the battletech game I run draconis combine or clan wolf
@@TheTrueAdept The BlackPantsLegion youtube channel does lore. The voice actor for Duncan Fisher is friends with the creator and does skits at the end of some of his videos.
So what your saying is the 40k fanbase is basically the inquisitors where battle tech are just a bunch of normal humans that aren't getting their heads beaten on by big beefy men in baby cradles
Good analysis. I feel Catalyst is more open because they're not the original IP holders and they acknowledge they are resurrecting a game we all love. As for the novels, the BT ones are superior for giving more than a nod towards women. The Dark Library always reminds me of a Boys Own series where girls may give you cooties.
Catalyst has some of the old Fasa employees and writers that started and contributed to the original Battletech, Mechwarrior and Shadow Run games. So they do have a direct connection.
@Couchsader No Remote dude that was a horriable fight with a lame ending. #justicefornatasha
@Couchsader No Remote Sun-Tzu Liao is male. Also, he's the best character in the fiction.
And also evil. But the best.
@@GeneralBolas The best? ehh.. not sure. He is a great character and even better "antagonist", alright. But there are so many good characters in that setting that it is difficult to pick. Justin Allard, Morgan and Phelan Kell, Ardan Sortek, basically the entire Gray Death Legion from the early novels, the list goes on...
After what they’ve just done, I’m buying everything 3D printed.
Been playing Battletech since it was Battledroids. Different game in style, also that it can accomodate hex and paper board gamers as well as miniatures players. Welcome to the Inner Sphere, lads.
I have several 3D printed mechs that I love painting, and apparently a Catalyst is more than happy to see people kitbash and make their own minis.
Hey man, algorithm brought me here, and I was interested to see a 40k painter/player look into Battletech. I'm glad you are enjoying the universe and the games as well! In my town, we have managed to grow our group to roughly 15 odd players (lots of them new and several of them are long time 40k players), which we are pretty proud of. Also, when I hear a hobbyist say they are going to do Battletech minis painting I immediately subscribe!
Thank you so much, I'm glad to have you here! There'll definitely be more Battletech in the future, I promise.
@@TesseractMinis as well, if you have the time, I would recommend checking out the painter Brushido and Arclight miniatures. They have both done some stunning work with battletch minis, some cream of the crop work.
I also recommend Camo Specs Online as he's been with BattleTech since the early days and what I'd consider a Duncan Rhodes of BattleTech Painting
The Black Pants Legion has a wonderful series of lore called Tex Talks here on RUclips that is really good. The Amaris Civil War series is amazing and presented documentary style.
I second that tex is awsome
These are a great watch even if you don't care to get into battletech, they'd stand on their own even if they were just making up a story.
I third this opinion. Videos like the Atlas Battlemech lore are damned funny.
As an 80's Battletech player I think back when all the Battletech players disappeared and started playing 40k in the mid 90's... Huh, it flipped back?
I've been playing BattleTech since 1987 and I can still use the miniature I bought for the game back then. None of my friends can say the same for 40k.
That’s actually not exactly true lol ou can use old metal models in 40k as long as it’s in the right base size
Kind of... Except in tournaments, where the older models are almost always smaller and therefore count as "modelling for advantage" in the tournament rules. Not to mention the vast number of discontinued units in 40K, the many models who's loadouts are no longer available in current codices.
It might not be _exactly_ true...but it is basically true.
@@TesseractMinis there’s an argument for both sides tbh
I got interested in Battletech via the overwhelming endorsement of Razorfist. I later started to get into 40k after I witnessed the Astartes fan animation and now that GW is making that blocked behind a paywall... That just left such a sour taste in my mouth as I probably would not have gotten into 40k without it. So yeah... Back to Battletech lol
I do quite like the description of "refugees" for 40k players vacating the fandom. It's quite accurate.
And, unfortunately for my RUclips name... it very much includes me.
What's keeping you from applying that color template to your mechs though? There are plenty of mechs to suit the combat style of the White Scars. Perhaps base the name for your outfit on the Scars' pre-unification name and tweak that a little? If you want it, you can do it. So long as you pay your HPG-bills on time that is...
Just make a merc company of White Scars who eventually went too fast and ended up in another universe, forming lances made entirely of Locusts, Wasps, Phoenix Hawks, and other speedy boi 'Mechs- probably with lots of high-speed fighters as well.
@@ranekeisenkralle8265 I've learned from Tukkayid, don't worry. I know not to piss off the phone companies.
@@poke548 Yeah, unfortunately, I've already taken a liking to the Jade Falcons. Do clans 'adopt' mercs?
@@ladywaffle2210 You could form a Star of bondsmen. Basically outsiders taken into servitude and, if they prove exceptional as a part of their new clan, may in time be granted full citizenship in the appropriate caste.
One of the things I really like about Battlech is how scalable combat can be. You can go from Lance level (Classic, 4-6 units/side) to company level (Alpha Strike, 12-16 units/side), to Battalion and Regiment Level (Battleforce/Strategic Operations, 36 to 240 units/side) to full warfare across light-years (Interstellar Operations, entire armies/side) and still have that same feeling.
Add in the RPGs (there are two, each with different levels of complexity) and you can bring in a narrative framework to your games few other wargames have.
Definitely great points!
Don't forget that the Mechanicum are pretty well "Heavily inspired" by the lore for Comstar. Comstar, your friendly communications provider. You have no choice (tm).
I feel like there was a quasi-religious mechanic organization in an old Heinlein story.
I can't pin it down, I could be hallucinating, but I feel like it's right there. I think they were maybe maintaining the ship they were on?
I started 40k about 7-8 years ago. I was looking for battletech stuff but the game was near dead and near impossible to find other players.
Fast forward to now, I'm hooked! I played bt 20-25 years ago and was deeply saddened it wasn't around much.
The way bt has stormed back is quite pleasing.
Heck, I thing I have a couple of battalions of mechs in the loft, played massive classic games back in the day (30 YEARS AGO), glad to see it's having a resurgence.
Me and the guys in my squadron, 20 Marines, re enacted the Wolfs Dragoons vs Kurita warfare on Misery. 3 full Regiments of mechs and tanks. Took all weekend but was s total blast.
I have really gone all in with Battletech, I got the game and tons of models for the price of a Land Raider.
Me too, I've purchased so many force packs, maps, every rulebook except alternate eras, a handful of salvage boxes.... you get the picture. The problem is I'm having trouble getting ANYONE to try it with me. I've even laminated datasheets and got some wet erase markers for the beginner box and AGOAC. 😔I just want 1 friend
Great video, thanks for posting it! One of the things I really love about Battletech - if you played back in 2nd Edition, and are coming back today, the rules have really not changed much. A few clarifications ,or a few additions of new tech, but it really is the same game mechanics. 40K, on the other hand, also comes out with a brand new rulesset every few years, forcing you to buy new books, codexes, etc. Oh, and Battletech won't invalidate an entire army or hit you with power creep.
I started off as a Battletech player in its first iteration. Back in the late '80s there was a large player base. It had its share of "contentious" players, but in my experience never as many as in WH40K. Plus, I think you are spot on about price point. BT enables anybody to jump in at a low price point to field a lance (4 mechs) and be off to the races.
Been a Battetech fan off and on for most of my life at this point. Introduced to the game by my uncles. I always loved the lore and the gameplay but the issue was always finding people to play. Once my uncles moved away it was pretty much my brother and me playing and once I moved away neither of us could get a time and day to visit and play. I recently painted up my minis from the Kickstarter and introduced my kids to the game.
Battletech players tend to create new players more then find existing players lol but thanks to the internet there are many ways now to find people in you local area or a short drive away
I discovered BattleTech at summer camp, introduced by a friend. This was the first edition of BT, the one immediately after they changed the name from BattleDroids. The game I learned way back then is still compatible today. And, all of the badly-considered 'Mechs that I scribbled out back then are still valid today.
Chances are those badly made mechs arent much worse than the initial succession wars era bad mechs
Ive been at it for 36 years, the BT community has and always will be there. Its been there during every edition of 40k, Im glad more people are exploring BT.
Best way I've described Battletech on the fly is to think of it as Game of Thrones in space with big stompy robots with guns, it's more nuanced than that but I feel it gets the basic point across.
I think that's totally reasonable
It sounds great but where do I start sir?
Also have to say that your rapidly becoming one of my favourite miniature/hobby channels, loving the lack of an agenda when offering an opinion it's bloody refreshing
That's such a huge compliment. Thank you. I certainly do have vested interests in the hobby. I run a miniatures store, I run a Patreon. But I try to make sure that those things don't hassle my viewers, and I try to give as broad and fair an approach as possible.
If you wanted to get started with Battletech, of recommend the Beginner Box or the Game of Armored Combat box. However if you're in the UK both are awaiting restock.
If you can't get a copy, I'd recommend just buying a mech and painting it, to see how you like that side of the hobby, whilst you wait for the boxes to restock.
@@TesseractMinis I am indeed UK based sir so it's the waiting game for me; not that I do not have a huge pile of Stargrave models to keep me busy! However I can't see the harm in throwing a Mech or two in there to keep things fresh 😁
Keep up the excellent work!
Cheers Sean! There's a bunch of places where you can get mechs just to have a paint with. Ironwind metals make official metal mechs, there's a guy called Matt Mason who has a great Patreon for 3D printed files, and with a bit of digging you can probably find plastics and printed mechs directly on sale too. eBay is also a shout.
@@TesseractMinis Also if you want weird and cool, there's PolygonMasterWorks who has some really cool Periphery pirate variants, including print ready Bull Shark minis (the HBS' custom mech that's in the video cover :D). Ion Raptor makes cool redesigns, can find some rarer things from them too like the Owens, but most of the STLs are off the internet now because people ripped the models and sold them as their own.
Some models missing from Mason can be fround from Brian Banzai (namely the Champion, "old" Robotech Marauder, and Hatchetman), Captain Fathom has hosted bunch of Marauder and Locust variants if you like those mechs as much as I do heh. SomeAssemblyRequired does some custom models too on their Patreon, largely reimaginations of some mechs that aren't part of the Clan Invasion KS, a bit more retro feel to them though. And SmallRobotsInAContainer has some MW5 vehicle STLs and such :D
Also, if you want to search for Battletech related stuff on Thingiverse, Cults3d, or such, use "american mecha" as search word. It's kinda mutually agreed way of calling it Battletech without calling it Battletech :D
@@seankavanagh3742 If you want to test the game out without any commitment you can also just print out the paper stand-ins(Or even as pointed out in the video, anything of roughly the right scale.), some mech sheets and the basic free rules from the Catalyst website. Give it a go with a friend to see if it fits and it has cost you a bit of ink and a few pieces of paper. Personally I see this as a win-win really.
Enjoyed this video a lot. As a hardened Battletech player from back in the 1990 it's great to see new people discovering the it :)
Played a long running campaign with 5 friends over the course of a year and still remember the names of several of the pilots even now. My favourite mech is the first one I ever bought, a Banshee 3S, and 'Snakebite' Simpson was the character that piloted it to many victories in the campaign :) Happy days :)
A fantastic channel for Battletech is Death From Above Wargaming which covers Battletech Classic, Battletech Alpha Strike and Battletech: Destiny.
7:27 this is probably the biggest reason why I can't really get into battle tech. whether it's the the miniature game it self of the lore. I might just be shallow or something like that but I just like my some space bugs. or ancient Egyptian robots that killed the gods (who ,on average, have crazy abilities like spawning black holes out of no where or teleporting stuff/people to before time even existed) who enslaved them and trapped their shards in what essentially are pokeballs to be used as weapons.
I need my monsters.
Yup thats a big difference of battletech that I also find a little sad (though it wouldnt be battletech without it): its a big space setting, but there is no aliens whatsoever, with the clans during the initial invasion (before they lost their technological edge) being the closest to aliens the setting will ever get. Means that while factions have flavor in lore, once in game it doesnt matter what faction you play as anymore. I do love myself colorful factions with unique abilities, and battletech just doesnt have that. That and the emphasis on mechs that reduces the flavor a little further (when the setting has tanks, aerospace fighter and infantry), and the relative small scale of fights (you aint gonna see the equivalent of an awe-inspiring 40k apocalypse table with swarm of infantry towered over by giant vehicles with a clear aesthetic difference beyont paint on each side... Not that most can afford an apocalypse size army, but its damn cool to look at).
Overall, a little sad that the game often seems (from my outsider view) to just end up as "mechs against mechs, small squad only", which feels pretty restrained.
I mean, in fairness, as long as you aren't playing historical/lore accurate games, there's nothing stopping you from making a Morkanaut or something in hour battle line. Especially if you're playing with the ability to build your own Mechs and vehicles, there's a lot of buried options or aesthetics you can create to get close to your desired theme.
I made a Trukk, down to the mob of boyz in the back and the wrekkin' ball hungering for the shins of a big mek to loot.
You could absolutely make a Carnifex look alike or maybe a Necron Destroyer using those rules, that, while not completely supported in rules, at least has a very similar feeling.
The Ork aesthetic is especially compatible, though, especially since some of the more makeshift industrial weapons, or offbeat weapon configurations translate well to the aggressive, poorly thought out, and blunt forwards force of Orkz.
As a long time Battletech fan, I say welcome aboard. Battletech as a game and as a community has brought me more joy and satisfaction than 40k ever did. I appreciate how well thought out and objective your video was. And the great thing about the novels is that they are all canon. Some advice about the audio books I would give is avoid the abridged versions of any of the novels. They cut the stories to ribbons. The unabridged ones you were listening to are the way to go.
I know this is an older video but I want to give my experience with the Battletech community. I was big into the computer games at first, Mechwarrior 2 was an amazing experience. I never knew it was a tabletop game until several years later. I got into playing with a group back in 2017/2018, hosted by a Catalyst demo agent. Since then, my collection has been growing, and the demo agent has even helped me get setup to host my own games. He gave me a mat, 3D terrain to use, and has gifted me various mechs I didn't have as well as vehicles. We've always been eager for other people to join in. If someone walks up and looks we are more than willing to go over and talk to them, answer any questions they have, and if they want to join in we are more than happy to give them some of our own units to play with and teach them the rules. It's been a great ride and I hope it continues. Cheers.
EDIT: There are in fact more 'organic' looking units in Battletech, they're still machines mind you but they do exist.
I remember seeing your post in the subreddit! I forget if I commented on it, but I definitely upvoted it! I’ve been engrossed in the Battletech Universe since the late 90’s, with my first game being Mechwarrior 3. Nowadays I have purchased the tabletop and this is my first time painting any miniatures, I love seeing painted mechs by other painters. So far it’s probably my favorite thing about this community, also I have not seen any kind of rude players or toxic people in the community. Chances are, whatever you post people will love it because we love seeing new players!
I've always thought Battletechs Achilles heel was that they didn't produce there own models. Always thought the game would be a bit bigger, maybe not GW big, if it could produce a steady stream of models for the players. Catalyst is trying but is small with not a lot of monies and IronWind is also small and still prints its models as the name suggests, in metal lol. It isn't the cost of the models that'll kill you it is the shipping cost. Hoping with the rise of 3D printers and Catalyst being so supportive(Even making a lore youtuber into a dang canon figure in the lore as a teacher lol.), that Battletech will start to get more play and recognition.
Lastly great paint job sir, don't usually see mechs done up so nice. Generally see a simple camo pattern, house colours or a coat of gun metal primer lol. There is somewhere an official guide to House, regimental, company and down to lance colours if wanting to do something a bit more lore friendly I guess? Best is merc paint jobs, the sky is the limits, knew someone who painted a lance pink with bunny decals and would say "I hope you brought your holy handgrenade!" before a fight. Heck in the lore there is a pilot just referred to as The Bounty Hunter, his mech is always a dark green with dollar symbols all over it. Basically just saying, the mechs may be simpler to paint but the variety you can do is endless, simple for new people, infinite possibilities for master painters like yourself.
Some people have started doing their own prints and other people are selling prints and files. CGL grumbled about it a year ago, but backed down when the fans got angry at them (pointing out the supply issue CGL and IWM had even BEFORE the coof).
@@dubuyajay9964 You are sadly mistaken. CGL did not "back down" and you will see them doing Cease orders some time in the future here once they start to get product on the shelves. They are a very, very small company and have to prioritize at the moment. Oh and BTW you cannot use 3d printed stuff or in that matter jelly beans in Official CGL events.
@@markcalhoun9480 Since when have they had official events outside of Conventions?
@@dubuyajay9964 They have yearly World Wide Events and if you have your Catalyst Agent run events they are not allowed. Also you are putting CGL out of business by not buying the new Plastic mini's. Granted I give they are having a hard time getting that product on the shelves. But you need to support them. Not stolen 3d designs from a video game CGL has nothing to do with and gets no money from
@@markcalhoun9480 I think you are blowing things a bit out of proportion with the putting CGL out of business. If anything it is the third party sellers charging three to four times the price for official models because they know they are scarce. At least in Canada where I currently live that is the case. I admit I currently own a great deal of 3D models, I use them to help get people into the hobby and if I charge it is usually enough to cover material. Through this method I'd say CGL has made money as those people who wouldn't have even tried the game now went out and put there money down on the books, both rules and lore. Also own many official models and strongly support the kickstarters and official models when they can be purchased for reasonable prices.
This whole the sky is falling, 3d printing is the death of TTG's is BS. Just like the advent of high speed internet and movie pirating had minimal impact on the industry as a whole neither will 3D printing kill these companies. Force them to evolve, yeah, but that is business. If Catalyst was smart they'd produce more models but also offer selling of official STL files and join in. They make money, support the community and make the models easier to obtain so more can join in and buy more product elsewhere with Lore/Rules books.
9:39 Games Workshop is like Comcast, they hate their customers.
I've been playing BattleTech on and off since the 80s.
Around the late 90s/early 2000 I got into Warhammer 40K, but even back then it was stupid expensive and I got out of it. I still have an Imperial Guard Army, and they will always be the Imperial Guard to me, but I have not played probably since like 2003.
Very much so.
You said Comcast and I read ComStar
"boxy thing with guns"
YAAAY! that sounds cool, i love boxes, lol
The best thing about Battletech: It's a game that can be whatever you want- small, complex, micro-detailed game rules or 'basic, fun, chill' one-off games, campaigns with progression, etc. If GW tried to replicate this with actual games that they supported, I'd be inclined to buy some of their stuff more often.
I played Adeptus Titanicus 1st edition. The group I was in spent more time arguing over rules then play. We gave Battletech a try and I’ve been playing it ever since (31 years). I love the titans and AT lore, I just can’t deal with GW, and the costs of the game( and the variety of ways they go about making players buy new editions).
Yes, so far it’s much better
To expand on my thought: I played BT back in the 90s and loved it. I got into warhammer after high school. I love oldhammer and 40k but I really cannot be bothered to give a shit about AoS. Frankly I’m happy to not be bothered by whatever the newest release is. I love many of their paints and I’ll not be setting my beloved orks on fire but frankly I was able to acquire a whole new “army” for battletech for 30$
and the beautiful thing is that 30 buck "army" could probably work for any era in the game. The designers try to look at old chassis and wonder "okay what new fun stuff could be put on this ride?" So a Thunderbolt mini from the 80s could represent anything from 3025 up to whatever given current era is. Solid investment there.
The main thing that keeps it better is that the rules don't break preexisting builds.
Because you play with eras. Not rulesets.
Wow! I was just directed here by one of the folks at CGL who told me that you commented on the audiobooks.
I must say that I am ecstatic to hear that you are enjoying them! I'm in the process of narrating several more, so here's to hoping you enjoy those as well. Thanks again!
Oh wow... The voice of the Grey Death Trilogy likes my work!? This is a huge honour. Thank you Tren!
@@TesseractMinis See? That's exactly what I was thinking! "Wow! This guy likes my work. What an honour!"
We shall honour one another!
You don't understand how much this has made my day, Tren! Doubly so that you also intimate that CGL are aware of what I'm doing. You have literally changed my perception of the depth that can exist in audio storytelling. To say I'll be a lifelong fan is an understatement.
I've been playing Battletech on and off since 1990. It's one of my favorite universes to play in. I disagree with the general direction some of the metaplot events have gone in, but hey, that happens. One thing I like is how much it encourages you to do your own thing. If you want to build a unit that focuses on quick slashing attacks with highly-skilled warriors? Go for it, they'll give you the rules to build it. You want a Wall of Steel? Go for it. Anything in between? Can do. I've seen everything from a horde of tiny little one-man hovertanks armed with popguns to a combined-arms artillery-laden juggernaut.
There actually -is- a yet more complex version of the game, as well. Although it's out of print and somewhat obsolete and unsupported in the current edition. The "Solaris VII" boxed set (centered around the planet Solaris VII, known for its arenas of battlemech gladiatorial combat) included a high-detail system designed for one-on-one combats (although it works just as well in lance-v-lance). It's my favorite way to play for small battles, but lance-v-lance can be an all-afternoon thing - compared to the Alpha Strike game we played last night that was 8 mechs on each side and finished in under two hours.
Is the grass greener on the Battletech side?
As a player of both games since the 80's . . . YES! YES, IT IS! I gave up 40k years ago for the most part because Games Workshop is a rouge cabal of assholes overly obsessed with greed and malice and that has translated to the player base as well. Battletech has ALWAYS been a welcoming game and community. I have never had the fights, arguments and problems I had with 40k. Battletech has had the same basic ruleset since the beginning. It's just been expanded and refined, not completely replaced with a new one every edition. Battletech requires no more than 1 rulebook and a lance of paper markers and a printed out hex map to play. Battletech does not hate like 40K does. Battletech does not care if you're WYSIWIG to play. Of course everyone would prefer you actually had the mechs you play, but nobody's going to stop you from doing otherwise. Battletech won't make you take out a second mortgage on your home to pay for it. Battletech is inclusive whereas 40K is exclusive. Play what you want. If you want to paint cool looking monsters there are a LOT of choices besides 40K. If you want to paint awesome stompy bots, they're all over the place. But, if you want to get into a game and have enough miniatures to play a variety of games for years to come and and even be competative for years to come for under $100, there is simply no comparison. 40K isn't even in the same state, let alone the same ballpark. Come paint awesome stompy bots and use them in a game that's fun with a community that's fun.
YES, Battletech is that much better than 40K. It's not even a contest at this point.
Another point in Battletech's favor is the lore around individual mechs. The Succession wars meant new mechs were hard to come by, so houses would have hereditary mechs passed down from generation to generation, kept together with whatever could be scrounged. Each mech had its own heritage and story potentially over hundreds of years of warfare.
I love that part of the lore. I think it adds a ton of richness to the setting
One thing you didn't mention about painting which I thought you would simply because you were so thorough is that the scale makes a big difference in regards to painting the the level of detail of the model - although granted, the older sculpts for BT can be.. interesting 😜 Anyway I was going to say the style adopted in the BT community necessarily tends to be "simpler", or with techniques like shading or outlining of panels amplified to convey depth at such a small scale.
At any rate i can't wait to see more of the your results on battletech minis if you decide to do more! 😉
Interestingly the 6mm scale of a Battlmech makes anything up to a medium not significantly bigger than a current generation Primaris space marine. That was why I didn't mention the scale difference :)
But I can promise you this, I'll be doing my best to introduce the Battletech community to a ton of cool painting techniques. Which means definitely more painted mechs on the channel...in fact, spoiler alert... I'm working on something in the next few days ;)
@@TesseractMinis I didn't mean the size of the actual mini but more the size of the unit being represented - I was under the impression Primaris space marines were about 9'-10' whereas your average Battlemech is about twice that. Of course, there's still plenty of detail work to do. I look forward to seeing more of your work man
you could paint up your mechs to be cultist mechs, or church-y mechs, or add some bits to make an ork-inspired looking mech, but theres no equivalent for a tyranid bio titan, squiggoth, or demons, sadly
There are no aliens in general, and it's likely to stay that way. There was Far Country, but they were primitive and far removed from the Inner Sphere and unknown to anyone not stranded in their system. And many choose to ignore that because BT fans really don't like the idea of aliens in general in the setting. It's all about human conflict and the madness of ambition, and the poor fuckers caught in the middle.
Yo some Word of Blake 'mechs done up in bright church fashion would be awesome, and ork 'mechs are even in the rules using the various scrap/patchwork armors
thats a sharp lookin Bullshark! I love me some third party mechs that just bring flavor and mystery to games.
I think Battletech's draw is the Lore more than any other thing.
If I ever choose to play BattleTech the board game I'm going to buy directly from BattleTech after hearing all the positive things that you've said about them and the way they handle their business and IP
It’s been since the 80’s that I’ve played battletech, so I’m not up on what’s going on in the tabletop game but I’m glad to see it’s getting a renaissance. I might have to pick up the starter box and make one of my kids play with me.
That's the man, officer! He threatened his kids with a good time...
That's really interesting dude. It's good to see companies working with and for their community and everybody being able to access and enjoy their game rather than doing as much as they can to ensure the game is only played in The One True Way. I guess when you're the biggest fish in the in the pond you can afford to upset people a bit more than if you're just about getting by.
💯 mate. In fact I'd say just by being that big fish, you'll have the kinda die hard fans who will actively defend and side with your toxic behaviour. Some might step back from that and say "maybe we shouldn't support this after all?" Others would lean into it.
@@TesseractMinis But this happened aswell to BT, people forget what happened when jyhad launched and skiped the timeline and the uproar , and the first years of wizkids etc where not exactly good.
@@santiagopeligros4768 jihad wasn't the timeskip, Jihad just started when Wizkids jumped straight to dark age, reusing a lot of the story and characters from previous eras, which threw the writers for an absolute loop.
The later jihad was all filled in later to try and make up for the hackjob.
@@cptncutleg poor wording for my side but it remains as soemthing realy fucked up the franchise , Fasa always tried to advance the lore to fast and in my opinion it did hurt alot the potential of BT
@@santiagopeligros4768 I think the big difference is that while they were trying to advance the lore, they never fully moved off the old stuff either. Jihad and DA were a money grab and justification by a new company trying to turn a quick buck on what they saw as a dying but exploitable IP... they were very mistaken
Started with Mechwarrior via the TV show and thinking it was a fever dream
Played 40k videogames and minis, GW gives me the figurative finger to my Kriegers
Now I have a Lance comprised of a Warhammer, a Locust, a Panther, and a Marauder. Plus when my other Lance or my Star of Clanners get here, I'll begin teaching my neighbor.
As a 40k Refugee, I've never made a greater decision than to move over to Battletech. I've saved so much money on models it's not even a joke, I don't get fucked sideways anymore when I just want a single model. I've even sold off my 40k models for Battletech. Oh, and I can actually understand how the fuck to play the game. I painted 40k models for 3-5 years and never played one game. Oh, another bonus, the community doesn't go for your throat if you get a paint scheme wrong or don't paint the best of miniatures. Constant encouragement from the BTech community.
Not to mention the lore is actually graspable (y'know, not being over 40 thousand years long), and you don't need an entire library sub-company (Black Library) for the lore.
Hell, if we're talking Lore, there's multiple historical points in battletech that are quite similar to Battletech. Horus Heresy? Amaris Coup. Emperor of Mankind? Ian Cameron. The Forces of Chaos, the greatest enemy to mankind? The Clans, the greatest enemy to the Inner Sphere.
The absolute best part though? There *are* aliens and big monsters in Battletech, all of The Clans are named after dangerous alien creatures! (Ghost Bear, Nova Cat, etc)
Even Clan Wolf is named after the "Strana Mechty Wolf", which is basically just a living Dire Wolf. We even know that on some planets, there are monsters large enough that could easily take on the largest and most lethal mechs. There's just no game mechanics for it. *Yet.*
Blakeists seem more like chaos to me.
Battletech is a frontrunner as it has longevity.
However im seeing a lot of good reviews for Godtear, Warmachine/Hordes, and Bryond the Gates of Antares, and there's plenty of other games as well. These are what I get comments on anyway.
Can confirm WarmaHordes is well worth getting into. You can play with much smaller armies than 40k, and the rules don't change as often as 40k. The biggest negative I can call out is that the miniatures are generally a little lower quality and not much cheaper. For example, a unit of 10 minis for Warmachine runs $40-50 (USD), depending on where you find them. Individual hero-type characters are generally $7-20. The namesake warmachines can be anywhere from $15 - 200. One nice thing is retailers like Miniature Market frequently have sales for WarmaHordes miniatures that you're not going to get with GW products.
Beyond the Gates of Antares is definitely a fun game. Model count is slightly lower than you’d see on a 40K tabletop. It’s setting is refreshingly different: science and technology are EXTREMELY advanced compared to what you’d be used to with GW. There were some balance issues with the Ghar faction at one point, but iirc, they fixed that ASAP several years ago. Each book that’s released has included a narrative set of scenarios with a story that advances the timeline a little and a few new units for every faction. I haven’t played it recently, but I enjoyed it for sure.
@@frocat5163 see, I didn't have a big issue with the mini cost. Id pay 50 bucks for 5 terminator-sized models or 10-12 regular infantry, partly because I'm not getting gouged for the solos and warjacks. 12 bucks for a solo, maybe 15 for a caster, 35 for a warjack-I WISH a space marine dreadnought still cost that much!
@@SavageBruski Yeah, I don't have an issue with the prices, either. I was simply pointing out that some people might be miffed that the "trooper units" are pretty close to GW prices while being a little lower quality. I looked at the factions, picked the one I liked the most, then used 1d4chan to help put together my lists. I found a lot of stuff on sale during a Miniature Market sale, and I think I spent about $150 for a fairly competitive force with room to grow. And, yeah...a heavy warjack for $25 - 35 is pretty decent. It's really only the colossal 'jacks that get into the $100+ range.
As a person who switched, I say the grass is greener
I fully agree...although Battletech isn't where I ended up settling on my new main game. The last year or so I've been slowly committing more and more to Infinity and I am absolutely in love. Such an incredibly detailed and freeing game system, it's really amazing.
Just going to touch on painting for Battletech, and choosing a faction. First thing, there is no reason as a player to choose a faction. Most games of Battletech occur between mercenary units. As such, you have absolute freedom of how to paint your mechs. Mercenary units could paint everything to be uniform, or they could paint to match the style of each pilot. You don't have to conform. If you do want to represent a specific house, or a specific unit you just need to find art assets to guide your decisions. Each house is broken up into hundreds of smaller commands ranging from planetary garrisons, to noble units, to House controlled regional units. There is plenty of room to allow you to go in the direction you want.
The smallest units in Battletech is a single mech usually run as a lone wolf mercenary that wants to hire on to a bigger unit. A single could also be a gladiator. Solaris 7 is very famous for having a Gladiatorial circuit of arenas. The most common unit is the lance, which consists of 4 mechs. Those mechs tend to cluster around a weight category, often with 1 above and 1 below that category. So for instance a medium lance could be 4 medium mechs, or 1 heavy and 3 mediums, or even 2 light, 1 medium and 1 heavy mech. Lances are often built with tactics in mind. So for instance you could have a lance that all move about the same speed, or an assault lance that is suppose to do close combat, or a support lance where 3 units provide long range fire and 1 acts as a guard. Four support mechs would be more common with other lances acting as a screen.
The next biggest organization of mech is a company, which consists of 12 mechs, or 3 lances. It is very normal for lances to have a special purpose. Like one support lance, one scout lance and one assault lance being excessively normal. If a company is part of a larger organization all of the lances may be of the same weight category and the entire company might have a single specialty. A scout company, or an assault company, or even a sniper company.
Three companies make a battalion. Battalions are honestly too big for most players to handle. Not as a painting project, but for game play. Battalions don't significantly differ from companies. Each lance could have specialized roles to play, or the entire Battalion could be made up of a single mech type. Miller's Marauders comes to mind when talking about a mercenary company that did this. Each of the houses has some mechs they mass produce and can easily be found in company sized groups of a single mech type. This is more true of the lighter mechs than heavier mechs.
Mech unit sizes are guided by the system to deliver these machines to the battlefield. Drop ships ferry mechs from battlefield to battlefield, and from planet to jumpship. A drop ship is often what a mech pilot feels is their home. The Leopard is the most common military drop ship in the game. It carries 4 mechs. The Union class drop ship carries a compliment of 12 mechs, and is the most numerous of 'large' mech drop ships. Most battalions depend on 3 Union class ships rather than the rarer Overlord. Overlord class ships carry up to 36 mechs. There are other classes of drop ships but the mech drop ships other than these 3 are much less common. These 3 are the standard drop ships that unit sizes are designed around.
A regiment is the largest formal military structure in the Inner Sphere. A regiment is made up of 3-5 battalions. Regiments usually include infantry, air support and tanks. This is where the unit size limits impressed by drop ships breaks down. Larger military units consisting of numerous regiments vary wildly in size, and in name. Mercenary companies top out at the regiment size. Any bigger and a house would start to think you're a huge liability rather than just an asset.
I started in Battletech and I am back into Battletech after getting my 40k group to dip their toes.
I also only play Underworlds from GW now for the low model count and variety, things that I get with Battletech already. The grass feels greener, especially when I actually feel the love and appreciation from those making the game on a near weekly basis.
If I had to choose, the BattleTech universe is easily my first choice. Nothing against GW, it's just what appeals to me the most. In the end though, if you can, why not enjoy them both? Take a break from GW and try out BattleTech. Hopefully, GW will listen to the masses and correct its direction. Either way, right now is the best time for tabletop gaming in general, regardless of genre!
An', wurst case, I don't fink 'dere's anyfing in da lore dat expressle sez 'dere ain't no mob a green 'umies wif improbable, brutal mekks
An', wurst case, I don't fink 'dere's anyfing in da lore dat expressle sez 'dere ain't no mob a green 'umies wif improbable, brutal mekks
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 Fair enough the periphery is a big place.
I've been eyeing up table-top Battletech for a while. Mostly because I'm a huge fan of the PC games (except the ones released by PGI), and I'm a sucker for the lore.
As a replacement for BFG, I've been playing Babylon 5: A Call to Arms for a while now. The boxed set comes with card counters for all the ships you'll ever need. I'm getting fairly proficient with my Shadow fleet, even though it handles completely differently to my old Chaos fleet.
MechWarrior 5 could be a good pick if you want an MW co op experience. The host is still the head of the company and thus manages the jumps, missions, and purchases but the in fight experience is IMO is one of the best co op FPS BT experiences.
Paired with the heavy modding attention of the community with Merctech and Piratetech being my two favourite mentions it might be worth picking up. The main story however is oddly paced and the writing isn't the best out there but for me it is the narrative my role play sense inserted with my mates that made all the difference.
i can remember when the clans came out, we had a lance of mechs and a demi battalion of 2 tank, 2 mech if., 2 leg inf, 1 srm inf, and 1 jump inf platoons. Then the battery of arty. A nova ran into us (5 mechs, 25 toads). my first shot decapitated the nova commander and the DM though that was bad, but our rolls just decimated the clanners. Little to say that was decades ago now, and it still rings in my head the first time I engaged clanners. We were protecting the drop ships, so we got away with collecting all the suits and clan mechs due to having all the support elements there to bug out. We had a union with a tank one SRM inf, one leg inf and mech inf platoons with our lance and we were supporting a regiment for Drop ship security. We could not carry a full company due to converting some of the mech bay into bunk space. Still that campaign ended up being the stuff of legends in my Archer. I can not remember how many times first shot, head shots happened or the oh you are too close for LRMs, so here is a fist for your cockpit. The nice and surprising D6 rolls that can make any night memorable. Especially, when the DM hands you another set of dice and you do the same thing.
How do we keep making money.
GW: Let's raise prices. Let's release new editions every time we finish all races and force the players to have to buy new minis, and rule books.
Catalyst: Rulebooks as pdf Let's update the owners when rules update or change.
Looking forward to some painting tutorials. Subbed!
Thank you!
Give Dropzone a look, they're inspired by 40k but haven't fallen for the shitty practices. also they recently (within a year) doubled the amount of units you get in the starter army and didn't even raise the price
Is its holding company still alive?
another interesting thing to note about Battle tech is that the rules set is basically unchanged after 30 years! that speaks to it being pretty well designed, I'd say!
Agreed!
I first came across Battletech way back in 1984 and its a game that has stayed with me ever since, I mean who doesn't like big stompy robots? But there really wan't a whole lot of interest where I live for the game, but never the less the game stayed on my radar and with the onset of PC and console games the spark never truely died out. Then in the early 2000's I got into WH40K, mostly for the minature painting but also to play at home. I built up four decent size armies of Space Marine, imperial guard, Tau and necrons, with the Space Marine and imperial guard being the two bigger armies, I also had several forge world resin models as well and overall I spent around six thousand pounds on the hobby, thats not including the dozens of books as well. But I fell out of love with GW when they started ramping up the price of their minatures to a point where the game became almost inaccessable to most of the player base and nothing GW has done since has gotten any better, in fact GW seems to be going out of their way to shit on anyone who tries to make the 40K universe attractive to new players. The Battletech/Mechwarrior universe may not be as fully fleshed out as 40K but there is still a ton of lore behind the game and the strategy and game play are just as intense and has a community that actually welcomes and helps new players get the best experience for as little money up front and doesn't focus on gouging the hell out of your wallet. For me Battletech wins hands down on that score alone.
Welcome to the Inner Sphere. If you have Chaplains in your roster, those can, in Battletech compliant rules, be considered modified Atlas mechs. Transition easy! Have fun ^_^
That some Atlas AC/20 models look like boltguns helps nothing at all.
Black Templar's Chapalin Grimaldus and an Atlas does inspire the same feelings of dread should either come rushing toward you.
Oh man are you in for a treat! While it's true BT doesn't have an extensive audiobook library there are some absolutely fantastic novels awaiting you. The first Gray Death books are good and all but they don't hold a candle to the Warrior trilogy.
Yesterday, Tren Sparks commented on this very video and let me know that he's currently recording more! So we have more to look forward to soon, hopefully!
I was exposed to battletech through a friend in twenty twenty with Mechwarrior Online, I found a favourite mech and then found models for a tabletop game.
By now I had been cut off from 40K since after 8th and before 9th, so I slot in slowly with buying a few more bits and pieces since, I am now making a tank army.
I think a good way for Battletech to make a play for 40k players is to push a renewed emphasis on the 1st/2nd Succession War era, which is when Battletech was at its most "40k-like". The scale of warfare was much larger with scores of regiments and hundreds of dropships being deployed at once, atrocities and weapons of mass destruction were relatively more commonplace (though not as common as the fanbase sometimes exaggerates them as; nuking whole planets was pretty rare and shocking even then, though it certainly did happen). It would feel a lot more familiar to 40k players than the small scale, limited warfare of the 31st century and onwards.
Not only that, but at the same time, most of the fiddly advanced rules (and the balance problems that came with them... cough cough double heat sinks, cough cough Clan ER large lasers) weren't introduced yet, and compared to post-clan-invasion gameplay where battles have a "rocket tag" feel to them, Succession War battles feel slow, plodding and clunky with mechs often ending up in melee combat with one another. Plus, conventional infantry was still somewhat useful, and having poor bloody infantry running around dying around the flanks of your heavy war machines makes things feel a bit more brutal in ways 40k fans would appreciate.
so its been a very popular game in my area as GW games seem to attract toxic players. The newer easy access to cheaper good looking plastic miniatures has caused a re-surge in Battletech. It did survive pre painted click minis, alpha strike not being my thing really. I don't think it has anything to do with GW at all. I have to admit I don't find painting battletech minatures all that fun. -- "Boxy thing with guns"
Hey be nice to the Ice Ferret
I actually like the BT aesthetic.
I played both games on and off years back but haven't for years because of RL stuff. That said, Battletech is vastly superior in every way. Comparing WH to BT is like comparing Laddy Ga Ga to Beethoven frankly. WH's vast "lore" is childish, silly, and basically a massive grab-bag of plagerized ideas. BT is incredibly deep and well-considered. You can delve into it as deeply as you can authentic military history. Secondlty, and most importantly, the community is way nicer and more accessable. If you show up with carboard counters and say, "hey, I don't have the money for minis" no one will bat an eye. You'll get a hardy and warm "welcome aboard" and "have a seat."
In fact, when I first started playing I was given several old minis by the guys who taught me the game as a welcome aboard.
Speaking of painting....
I remember back in the "golden years" of Battletech when we actually had honest to G*d "Conventions" where we would meet to play Battletech on a large square...
There was this guy that would show up who LITERALLY had a rolling tool box full of hand-painted 'Mechs... He had probably close to a thousand of them; all set up in REGIMENTS and each Regiment being painted in the same color scheme.
The best was an entire Regiment of the "Northwind Highlanders".... He had painted each mech with some variation of the "Royal Blackwatch" Tartan.... By Hand....
It was pretty damn amazing.
So... Welcome to the Club... It's been a long time since I attended a meeting but I'll be getting back involved soon...
When you mention the difference in game figures, that is one of the reasons why I have never tried 40K. For battle tech, unless you want to go down that route, you could keep the ones in the starter boxes no matter how you customize your mech or even what type of mech you use (So what if my King Crab looks like a locust). The main thing I see with 40k is the huge amount of figures you would need (heck, there is a shop in the mall next to me that has a whole place dedicated to just buying and painting 40k figurines). From an outsider, 40k seems more like a game you play with the figurines you bought while Battletech is more like a game you play that just happens to have figurines included (yes, I did love the jelly bean as a mech part).
I haven't played any GW stuff since the early '90s, which was also when I stopped playing Battletech. I started playing the Battletech tabletop again last year, and the ability to 3D print the few required miniatures was absolutely a large part of that. Even though I ended up printing and painting way more than I originally intended. I was also surprised at how much the lore had expanded, since people were just starting to introduce the Clans into games when I stopped playing, and how little the ruleset had changed. That said, I'm really not a fan of the changes in the factions and mech designs (the art and miniatures) that came with MWDA and the Jihad and Dark Age eras (So I just don't play them). I was also never really a fan of the novels, even as a teenager they seemed a bit too YA for me. Like a soft scifi version of the Dragonlance novels. Loved the computer games though. Starting from The Crescent Hawk's Inception.
To be fair, you're in the majority opinion when it comes to the Jihad and DA. Jihad was Fasa just trying to advance the time line without any real direction and DA was brought to you by Wizkids, Wizards attempt to make battle tech hero clicks (so you can imagine how much effort was given to lore in the midst of that colossal cash grab).
@@merrick1588 The lore got more love during DA than most people realize, and the novels from that period are actually better than some of the classic FASA novels.
DA would have likely done better if more BattleTech players had given it a chance, but when the Old Guard really didn't, Wizards didn't really push forward with the full tabletop version over the Clix version that WOULD have pleased the Hardcore Crowd.
the way I see it, all the new 40k players coming in has a downside. We'll see an uptick of the chuddy fashy scumbag type of gamers try infect our fandom, and it's important we nip that in the bud right away.
We gotta be careful about what's acceptable.
100% and it's right of you to point that out. But I also think the Battletech community are pretty good at saying "Fuck off, Nazi" and then moving on with their day. So I don't feel too worried about it, as a whole.
But I can ban you :)
@@TesseractMinis it`s the problem to become to much mainstream u always drags people with issues wich try to raise shit storms. and u will have always the battle of old vs new debate of the game and the issues of both sides clash over wich lead to angry people throwing tantrums
@@santiagopeligros4768 Battletech and the handling of the franchise respectively, had it´s shitstorms in the Forums of olde.
You have to understand that the old guard was nerdy in a time when it wasn´t as socially accepted to be nerdy, a lot of us didn´t just share the interest for the game at hand.
I guess it´s safe to say that a lot of us didn´t have the most pleasant teenage years, and finding a bit of escapism at the weekend with friends and peers was cherrished.
Most of us wouldn´t have risked that over some petty shit. Otherwise you´d be spending weekends alone because you were a dick.
It´s kinda hard recreating this nowadays with entertainment available left, right and center though.
The real veterans of the game aren´t appauled by the influx of interest by Warhammer guys, since BT has been the better system all along anyways :P
We all dipped into other systems at times and had fun with warhammer, but the realization about the dickishness of GW comes in waves accross the generations... if that makes sense.
A lot of us had their problems with GW that got voiced on Games Days, hence it doesn´t exist anymore, that´s where our gen learned their lessons and got cynical, without doing a good job communicating that to the young gen. While beeing entranced by the recent video game releases, because they do a better job (by design) satisfying the desire for gaming than the table.
I don´t get why the young guys don´t look into what the Andy and Rick have released on youtube over the last years, it baffled me how their GW´s supposed buisness partners and the customers got - in essence - lied to in various shades. -sigh-
All that to say: FFS feel welcome already, and nerd out.
Amen I don’t want any more Capellens in my hobby Either.
When you go from a Star Wars Refugee to a 40k one before ending up here.
As a battletech fan/player/person looking in on all of this (and having been enjoying much of the lore of 40k as its youtube popularity has gone up) .... I think the approach is considerably different to how the games are built.
Warhammer 40k seems to be rooted in deck building - similar to a card game where collection is a key component to play. This kind of predicts, and makes obvious, the aggressive moves made by Games Workshop. It's not a tabletop game. It's a card collecting game and anything 3rd party is a forgery. Imagine entering into a magic tournament with cards you printed yourself. Because the official tournaments need to use only the 'genuine card' - they will choose to aggressively shut down anyone they can. This also means that each miniature is scrutinized not just for authenticity, but also its physical features may define its characteristics in game play. This will, rather predictably, lead to the up-tight and snobby demeanor of parts of the community - they must be in a world where the color a model is painted affects its gameplay.
By contrast, Battletech is a tabletop RPG with stompy robots. It's built to be you and your friends (or their character) in robots that deal and take damage with progressive decline of systems. Taking too much damage to an arm destroys it and everything you had there. Battle fundamentally plays out on paper and any miniature is just for flavor.
A battle in battletech can be a tournament style setup with lore constraints, but many players seem to use it as a D&D platform for a campaign - where the players build and grow through success. There are even rules for human characters and combat for humans outside of said stompy robots. So you could have your merc team get into a bar brawl if you really wanted.
Obviously, I am a bit partial to battletech - because I am more of an RPG player than a collection piece tournament player. I think that will ultimately be one of the dividing lines - I think many warhammer 40k fans wanted a tabletop game to play with friends and 40k was popular - but when they started to try and have fun with the game on their own, games workshop made it clear the game is not on your kitchen table or living room floor, but in the tournaments.
For those people, I think Battletech will be extremely popular. Though some may venture over to the Star Wars rpgs or to the pathfinder side of things.
As for the lore...
To me, 40k is a meme of a universe. It's absurdity compounded on absurdity and is hilarious for the sake of fun and cool factor.
Just the concept of orks and how they... 'function' is simply ridiculous. Why is that a thing and how has it not destroyed everything?
By contrast, Battletech's lore seems more methodical and episodic. Everything is humans and human conflict with a pragmatic approach on how a space-faring humanity, given a few key technologies, might pan out to be like. There has been a rather long effort to keep the battletech lore coherent and presentable - where battlemechs came from, where the factions came from, how everything went to hell, and so on. Many of the factions tend to be embodiments of earth's cultures - these things didn't go away, but lived on. Most everything is designed to make sense from a plausible and methodical standpoint.
Which I think fits the "grimdark" idea a little better. The grim and the dark is not that humanity is on the verge of being wiped out by absurd things, but that humanity is still struggling to achieve peace with itself and that it can create ideas so profound as to result in creating its own aliens (the clans).
As the advertising line for the first MechAssault went: "It took 1000 years to create the perfect battle machine, bit it only takes a second to pull the trigger. Machines have evolved - man hasn't."
As much as mechassault is heresy within the battletech community. ... And I think that actually serves up an interesting example of why the lore of battletech is the way it is. Mechassault is treated as a heretical game series not only because it is a very, very simplified mech action game, but because what few bits of lore point it has are ... Silly and absurd. It takes place during the word of blake jihad and as part of the wolf's dragoons... But... When "lostech" now includes a "lava gun"...
It's seen as the red headed step child that should be treated with cries of heresy before admitting it was an okay game for its genre... If it wasn't battletech/mechwarrior related. Compared to MechWarrior 3 or 4, the game was radically simplified and the lore shoved into the background with the tone one of gag humor. Which fit its genre and target demographic... But not battletech/mechwarrior.