BattleTech Unseen 'Mechs v New Classics: Which looks cooler?
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- Опубликовано: 22 май 2024
- The definitive ranking of which 'Mechs look better now than they did in 1984.
MegaMek online BT game used for demonstration: megamek.org/
Music by Karl Casey @WhiteBatAudio
Check out The Excaliburs Saga, my narrative single-player campaign for BattleTech/MegaMek: sites.google.com/site/battlet... 
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I will not hear this blasphemy to laser ball-turret Wolverine. He carries a briefcase with extra ammo so he can slap people with it.
It's my favorite Unseen I felt so bamboozled when I saw it lol
The Laser ball is awesome, I bet some mechwarriors ride a Wolverine simply so they can grab a joystick and just aim it manually ...
the older one feels like he is wearing the classic evil bisnes man suit seems mutch more fun to shoot at but maybe that is just me^^
@@rotwang2000 100% it is a beautiful thing.
and the Unseen wolverines briefcase AKA the magazine reload for the AC
unseen Wolverine is holding a magazine for the AC in the left hand
Yep!
I like to think it is holding its lunch box.
I really liked the side by side comparisons. IMO the Thunderbolt got the biggest cosmetic upgrade
The original Locust was a small 1 metre tall security robot from the anime Crusher Joe.
Hahaha I didn't know it wasn't even a mech
Looks to be about 12-14 feet tall, not 1 meter.
It's name "Ostall".
One thing I appreciate about all the new designs is that the weapons are actually on the correct scale for what they represent. I know that was a pitfall of creating in-game stats for another IP's concept art back in the day, but seeing that dinky pistol on the OG Griffin and having to buy in that it's a PPC was laughable, or the Shadow Hawk having that massive cannon on it's arm, and "oh, it's just a Medium Laser." The new designs did a great job of representing what they actually bring to the table while keeping a lot of the spirit of the OG designs.
Regarding the Wolverine briefcase/ammo pack. Remember that the Hatchetman is also featured and at the time there were no rules for hatchets. People just assumed it had a permanently attached club or something.
Of course it's a legacy from Dougram, where apparently the model carried a spare ammo pack for its gun and I assume that it was yet another thing BT at the time glossed over. I recall people making house rules saying that the Wolverine had another 20 spare rounds, took a round to reload and couldn't use its arm until the ammo was either dropped or used to reload. There are mentions in the fluff that certain mechs can be quickly reloaded, by other mechs in the field if necessary. That's why the TR3025 had ammo carriers and coolant trucks. It seems the intent was to add the option to step back and cool down your mech or refresh your ammo when needed.
I like the new Locust better because the cockpit orientation actually makes sense.
I will still vote for my classic unseens.
For me, I did not really grow up on Battletech apart from MechAssault. As a result I almost entirely prefer most of the updates, except for the ones that are basically identical. They have a much closer and IMO more aesthetically appealing art style. There's a few exceptions though, the Archer, Shadow Hawk, and Wolverine look awesome to me (Edit, D: thats my favorite of the bunch)
Anthony Scroggins and CGL have done a great job with re-imagining the unseen 'mechs.
And the dood plays MWO to this day.
@@PeterBoddy to be fair to accuracy, I mostly stopped playing MWO a few years ago. When Faction Play didn't work out I lost a lot of drive for it. But I think MWO has had a great run, kept me playing for years and is still going. I play a lot of tabletop battletech these days though.
@@ShimmeringSword Ooooo its you. I love your art, especially with the Ranger stuff you do
Some of em absolutely, others gotta say had some downgrades. Also the Dasher no longer looks like it's trying to punch VTOLs and that's a sin. Embrace the weird Shimmy. EMBRACE THE WEIRD.
The Briefcase on the wolverine hand is supposed to be an AC 5 Magazine.
New wolverine looks fantastic....but he left home without his briefcase!
From Macross/Robotech in order, we have a VF-1A (Stinger), VF-1S (Wasp), VF-1S + FAST Pack (Phoenix Hawk), Phalanx Destroid (Rifleman), VF-1A Armored Pack (Crusader), Spartan Destroid (Archer), Tomahawk Destroid (Warhammer), Zentradi Gaulg Officer's Pod (Marauder). All of these are timeless classics, Super Dimension Fortress Macross was a major ground-breaking series that was poorly handled here in the west, but it's spirit does live on through Battletech.
Actually, I had to dig out my old Robotech player's handbook. And the Phoenix Hawk is actually a super veritech fighter. The only change to the Wasp is actually they just moved the laser over with no hand. And the Crusaders actually veritech with armor, which can be blown off after they fires off all its missiles. The Warhammers actually called an Excalibur. The Archer is called the Gladiator. The Rifleman is called a Raider X, and the Longbow is actually called the Spartan. And you can see the Valkyrie is also loosely based on a veritech. Even the Ostscout Ostroc and the Ostsol are all loosely based on the Zentraedi battle pods.
The PPC on the new Griffon tips the scale in its favour IMHO
Wolverine losing the ball turret has been the biggest slap in the face when it comes to the redesigns
First you skip the Scorpion and Goliath and then you give the win to the absolute worst of the redesigns - the Wolverine?
Absolute madness
The greatest improvement is the Thunderbolt, which used to be kinda wonky as unseen.
If you want to compare the "originals" you should check out the plastic kits originally sold with Battle tech. They were 1/200 Macross Valkyries and Destroids and 1/144 Fang of the Sun Dougram.
You cannot grok the art design of the originals without seeing them in their original media. That means watching _Crusher Joe_ for the Locust and _Fang of the Sun Dougram_ for the Griffin, Shadow Hawk, Battlemaster, Wolverine, Goliath, and Thunderbolt in addition to _SDF Macross_ for the rest.
You'll see that weapon systems in the source materials were omitted or misinterpreted (e.g. Warhammer loses its torso missiles and head MGs, missiles across the board are actually how Rockets are used in the game, obvious guns are labelled as lasers for no good reason), as are the ability to take damage (everyone gets one-shot, including named characters from time to time) because BT uses tanks as its paradigm of play when the source material is either jets or infantry (neither known for durability under fire; being able to limp home isn't the same as no-selling direct hits).
Then there are the WTF mistakes. Several designs take what are clearly smoke launchers (Locust, Shadow Hawk, etc.) and call them guns, lasers, or SRMs. That Thunderbolt, in reality, has a rocket pod and an autocannon as per source material (and piss-weak armor). So do most _Dougram_ designs, with the title unit (the Shadow Hawk in BT) being one of the few exceptions (and it only had TWO guns instead of one as well as far superior armor).
Weapon placement is also WTF because of rules issues. The Marauder's big gun is clearly CT-mounted, but you can't do that in BT by the book hence it's either RT or LT, a problem that persists with the M2. Designs that clearly use hand-held weapons (which are also used in melee in the source material) don't Because Reasons, and designs that have hand weapons in the game don't have proper mountings that would prevent them being shot off before being used Because Reasons.
Because of all these legacy issues, the clear direction that the game went and is going (walking tank game) had to deal with analog spaghetti code in the form of all sorts of bullshit workarounds to Make It Make Sense when the smart thing to do is to just rotate the designs out of the game permanently in favor of replacements that do the same job but don't have these problems. A snap decision over 40 years ago is now a lasting headache that either requires a significant rules revision, a significant content revision, or both to permanently fix- and none of these options will make everyone happy.
Love the detail here, lots of great thoughts. I have never seen Crusher Joe and I've only seen clips of Dougram
@@TrailblazerBT Fang of the Sun Dougram is actually a really good mecha/political drama show. Currently, all 75 episodes are available on youtube fully subtitled.
ruclips.net/p/PLm_615Q2LgcBdzirnajuX1XVMfOhUVOgE
You do yourself a disservice by not learning about the true origins of some of the original Battletech designs.
@@sleeplessknight99 That's great, I will try watching it for real!
I haven't seen the new Unseen art, so thank you for showcasing it... it is pretty good IMO. I kind of wish they made the feet bigger like the OG unseen, as that and the legs seem to be some of the bigger differences to me.
I’m a fairly new player but I am totally in love with the classic BT art style. The old designs have a sort of awkwardness to them, with lanky limbs and oversized guns, that’s just really charming to me. I appreciate that most of the Iron Wind Metals designs are more in line with the classic style. I think the new designs are perfectly serviceable, but most mechs feel overdesigned to me. With all of the added detail and blockiness, I find that many mechs sort of blend together and aren’t very distinguishable. They don’t have the charm that the classic designs have.
new crusader looks like it has DD chest implants
I would instead compare it to Schwarzenegger ca 1981
When you ask the tech why the crusader is the only mech he calls she and he just points lol
I do love the older "retro-futuristic" look of most mechs but I'm thankful for all the new designs. You'd think the ones that could be reproduced would have gone through new iterations as per their timeline in lore.
Don’t forget Alex Iglesias’s designs for Piranha Games. Some of them are damn good in their own right. I love his Raven and Atlas.
Edit: New Phoenix Hawk wins by a mile.
I won't forget these designs. They look awful. The current redesigns for tabletop however are very good.
I like his thunderbolt, wolverine, the firestarter, and I'll second the Atlas. There were a couple I didn't like as much though. I far and away prefer the CGL highlander and nightstar.
Good content…keep em coming.
Gen X here, and started playing CBT in middle school 35+ years ago (dating myself to explain my perspective).
Regardless of your individual tastes, It’s worth newer fans’ time to search some of the old anime stuff that FASA used, before all the Harmony Gold legal drama. For historical appreciation if nothing else.
Crusher Joe (locust…and I still think OG locust is the best)
Fang of the Sun Dougram mechs (shadowhawk, griffin, wolverine, t-bolt, battlemaster, scorpion, etc)
Of course Macross/Robotech veritechs, (stinger/wasp/Phoenix hawk), destroids (Warhammer/rifleman/longbow/archer) and the BAMF Glaug (marauder)
RE: The Shadow Hawk - The Mini had the same circular LRM pod that came with the Griffin, and the full-kit Dougram had it in the anime. It looked good with it. I personally liked to pretend that the Pod housed both the LRM-5 and the SRM-2 together, instead of that goofy panel showing the LRM in the right breast, and the smoke dischargers being the SRM-2. It especially worked for upgraded designs later.
But interestingly the plastic mini did not have the missile pack visible!
The Marauder is really awesome, I would totally field a lance of both unseen and new classic Marauders, with even more Marauder IIC filling up the rest of the lance
Yeah they all look great. You should reconstitute Miller's Marauders!
@@TrailblazerBT Oh damn, I didn't even know these guys existed, they are awesome!
The unseen marauder on the video thumbnail honestly doesn't even look like it should be the same weight as the new classic. The legs and especially the arms look so much smaller and the torso looks smaller as well. In my head I like to think of the unseen marauder as a glass cannon medium mech, and the new classic version is a bulked up evolution that has similar firepower, but it has enough armor to take a beating.
I needed this video. I have been away from Battletech for a number of years (3060TRO) so now Im having to relearn Mechs and identify new ones.
The original TRO 3050 thunderbolt in my opinion is the best looking Thunderbolt ever!
I love that New Classics mechs retain some of that original DNA (like I can clearly see Kawamori design on Warhammer as it literally looks like an update on original Tomahawk where Unseen version just looks like a fanart attempt at it for some reason. And Tomahawk/Warhammer is nothing short of Iconic mech for me)
Marauder tho looks extra cool because it looks like "What if Humans designed Glaug and not Zentradi?" - it has this UNS blocky design seen in Tomahawk, Armored Valkyrie, Spartan and Defender but still retains original design that in Macross was even more round with that odd ringular main camera
You weren't showing the original unseen Archer, but a second, reseen version. The original Archer had its cockpit on top, as it can be seen on the old CityTech box. Together with the Warhammer those were the most menacing mechs of the original mech set.
Yeah the image I used was from TRO 3050
Our unit favorites were the Thunderbolt (we retrofitted ours like the Eridani version) and a salvaged Wolverine-K (it was an absolute menace to vehicles since the SRM was able to cause all sorts of critical damage).
Wolverine K is one of the best mechs period, especially if playing for BV
Dude. You're speaking my language in a lot of cases in this. I've been playing BT since the 90s, and the Unseen have a great look to them in some cases, look better in miniature form, and some of the new art is decent.
I generally like most of the redesigns - and there are usually just few minor elements that do not quite like, but I struggle to find anything I outright hate.
The ball turret on the Wolverine, for example is something I miss in the new design. I always saw it as something similar to the hull autocannon of modern attack helicopters and found it to be a nice feature.
Also - the thing I find missing in the revised Locust (and Cicada redesign as well) is the characteristic combined leg/arm joint that was was very characteristic for these mechs - with hull basically "hanging" from leg mounts. Instead we have a more conventional "chicken" design.
But these are really small gripes if I'm being honest.
This was what the fans were looking for. This and also what mechs each faction primarily uses. I am glad they finally got around to the tech readouts on the factions.
Knowing the entomology of the Unseen. I'm glad Battletech puts its own spin on it. Growing up, people who weren't familiar with Battletech called it "The one that ripped off Robotech". (Technically, Battletech shares more DNA with Dougram, but whateves.)
So I'm glad Battletech was able to find its own voice when reimaging the unseen.
So what you're saying is, Battletech should be called "The one that ripped off both Dougram and Macross."
@@sleeplessknight99 and Crusher Joe (the Locust, the Galleon light tank, early versions of the Corsair and Sai aero-space fighters.
Not so much rip off but licensed from Big West. Of note, when they went to distribute to Japan, they had to replace those licensed designs as their license only covered territories outside of Japan.
@@downix I saw those designs years ago. They re-used some for the Solaris VII boxset illustrations for some hero 'mechs. A few of them looked pretty cool.
@@downix They weren't licensed from Big West, that was the problem. FASA obtained the license from Revell which made models/toys outside Japan. Probem was Revell wasn't supposed to be able to do that.
I'll have to side for all the original designs. The redesigns are sleeker in some cases, but knowing where the originals were taken from is part of the attraction for me. Especially the Marauder. It was Khyron's machine. The backstabber! I can't see one and not remember that description for Khyron. I am still a big fan of Robotech and those borrowed/stolen designs bring back great memories.
The one thing I really wish they would have adressed when designing the new classic mechs is the wrong placement of components. The Thunderbolt has its LRM 15 in the RT in the rules, and the Marauder has its autocannon in the RT (because it wouldn't fit in the CT). They could have easily changed that up on the model. I can't really say if that would have destroyed the aesthetics, but I don't think it would have.
I disagree with you on the Shadow Hawk and the Archer, but otherwise I think you are pretty spot on.
The new phawk, shadowhawk, and stinger show the fluff semi-rules based detachable lasers that don't seem prevalent in the new models.
The old mechs are just the best.. albeit Battletech did some upsies in atributing weapons to the the original japanese mechs, except for the veritech stuff.. for LAMs it just makes more sense to take an avoid shape and do less transformation then full on fighter form to mech in 3 stages
Project Phoenix Shadowhawk with the Cobra Commander face isn't too bad. It;s not a Shadowhawk, but it looks nice.
Ohhh funny how people diverge, that's one of my least favorite PP mechs even if you forget it's supposed to be a SHD
I personally like the new designs more, since I like the blocky war machine look of them, but the old designs are charming to me because they're relics of their time. They are VERY 80s.
For me, only the Locust, Crusader and the Marauder were where I wasn't _quite_ sure, but ultimately I think the new classics are universally better. I've been doing a bit of thinking, and I believe it comes down to two things: line thickness in the original art, and disproportionate legs. Having so little difference in line thickness in the OG artwork makes it really hard for the various bits to stand out, and it all sorta blends together for me. As for the legs, they're just _way_ too chunky. The Archer in particular looks severely mismatched with its legs and hips; like they're twice the size of the torso and arms.
The old Archer mini looks better than the art I think
If the new Locust had the old cockpit, it would be perfect. On the new Stinger, I miss the gun pod looking laser. I do really miss the ball turret on the Wolverine and wish it had carried over as well. What got me into Battletech was finding a copy of Camospecs back in the early 90s and seeing the original unseen Wolverine and reading the Eridani Light Horse fluff. Between the two I was hooked. Overall I think they did a great job on the new mechs.
Agree about the Stinger's laser!
I love the old unseen mechs I'm a huge fan of em but then... I liked robotech too 😂
I grew up with 3025, so have a soft spot for those designs (I remember buying the original Battletech an Citytech boxes with cardboard cutouts). But I’m pretty impressed with the new design language. All those FASA lead minis were passed on to others. It makes me smile thinking back on the good old days and how a new generation of players is keeping the game alive. Hell, it boggles the mind that I used to play BTech ASCII Muds/Mux over a dial up modem.
I dislike the modern archer's cockpit placement. It seems odd for a short armed firesupport mech to place the cockpit so low and jutting out so far.
Original Japanese Anime designs were amazing. A pity that Dougram and Crusher Joe never achieved the awarenes that Macross did.
Idk why the new locust has a reinforced antennae on it. I feel like it should be a big spindly thing. Otherwise, the redesigned cockpit looks so much sleeker and more aggressive and I dig it.
Honestly, after years of being disappointed in the various attempts at 'reseens' (Jesus that project phoenix Marauder was trash), I was pleasantly surprised at how hard CGL nailed it.
I love the original designs, I'm a fan of Macross and Dougram, and I've been in the game since the 90s but the new ones all look good and fit in nicely with the modern aesthetics
The problem with the new 'mech designs, they all look like they have rolled right out of the same assembly plant.
I enjoy all of Trailblazer videos
If there's anything that I think the new designs could take away from the old, it's that a bit of "War of the Worlds tripod" vibe isn't a bad thing. Not every mech needs to be chunky as hell, these are highly mobile far-future machines.
I play mw5 with a mod that inputa some of the older models into the game.ill admit alot are pretty cool but i do enjoy the more bulky tank armor plat style its evolved into, has giving battletech its own look of western mech as apposed to slim sleek eastern mech.
I've been playing since it was called Battledroids (1984).
I actually agree with Trailblazer for the most part with a few exceptions.
1.I consider the Shadowhawks equal because the original medium laser
was way out of scale.
2.I consider the Wolverines equal. The new version is more accurate
to the stats but the old is more accurate to some source materials.
3.I consider the Riflemans equal. I'm used to the old ascetic as
much as anyone but the new is recognizable as a Rifleman AND
more accurate to the stats as well as some source material.
4.I consider the Archers as equal. I prefer the beefier build of
the newer one but maybe they went a little to beefy.
Especially with the arms.
Stinger, Wasp, and Phoenix Hawk all have 1 thing in common
that could be a make or break comparison.
The new classics do NOT yet have an LAM version.
The IWM LAMs currently available are from TRO 3085.
They were abominations made years before the new classics.
Yes, would love to see new classic LAMs
I love most of the Unseen designs, but they are dated in a way that is unavoidable. I love the more militaristic designs of the newer look, but you're correct, at least none of them are those horrendous Project Phoenix redesigns.
Edit: The only good Project Phoenix design was the Rifleman, which actually looks cool as hell.
The marader project phenox would have done well the design was introduced as an entirely new mech.
I think the Project Phoenix Scorpion isn't terrible
Most Project Phoenix mechs were not good, but for me there is one great exception: The Thunderbolt.
And you know why? Because it's the only model that correctly places the LRM launcher on the right side. Jesus Christ, I cannot stand the fact that cgl did not match the new classic with the data sheet.
As a new player I am totally split down the middle i love both.
I'm not gonna lie, some of the unseen mechs remind me alot about transformers
Especially with the Stinger, wasp, & phoenix hawk
Phoenix Hawk actually was a Transformer: tfwiki.net/wiki/Jetfire_(G1)/toys
@@TrailblazerBT Actually, the Phoenix Hawkins is actually a super veritech fighter from the anime Robotech or Macross. And the Crusader is actually a veritech fighter in armor. The armor can be blown off after it fires off all its missiles. And the Warhammer is actually called an Excalibur. The Archer is called the Gladiator. The Rifleman is called a Raider X, and the Longbow is called the Spartan. I had to dig out my Robotech handbook and look that up it's a fun game, but you die really quick sometimes.
@@richardnicholson3827 Yes but the super veritech was also licensed to Hasbro to use as Jetfire in transformers
@TrailblazerBT Cool, I didn't know that. I learn something new every day. Well then, Trailblazer, you have a great and awesome day. Keep up the great videos.
I miss the double barrel PPC of the battlemaster, still a great redesign overall
Would def have been better with double barrels
I got Battletech mixed up with Robotech. I thought the boxset with the unseen Warhammer on the box cover was the Tomahawk from Robotech. Been in BT since then. I do have to say the new art and the way Battletech mechs were bulky I like most that look like they couldn't be made by slimmer armor.
Great origin story!
I just want to add that I like new Phoenix hawk more that any other iteration. it's just perfect IMO.
I like new Shadow hawk design more.
And I have to say that I really like new Marauder. And I must add that I like PGI Marauder even more.
Great video & hope you do more along these lines. I'm 46 & just got into BT about 18 months ago. I played MW since 97, played ClickyMech in the early 2000s, but first came across BT in the late 80s & instantly fell in love with it seeing the mechs & the record sheets as there was so much to them, but only just had a chance to start playing.
I was playing last Sun, and an old Grognard in our group was running a Ral Partha Locust & with the nice but likely paint job the mech just looked so good surrounded by new plastics. Whike I may disagree with a couple of your choices (like the Archer) I do agree some of the old mechs look great & I completely understand the nostalgia some of you may have for the old designs. I may have issue with some of the recent things CGL has done, but I am very thankful for what they have done & continue to do when it comes to updating the art & minis. I've heard they have had arguments over the location of antenna on the new designs, & I really appreciate the attention to detail & keeping the new designs at least at the core true to the original, but just better & maybe even a bit more "realistic".
Love hearing people's Battletech stories. One of the top ranked MRC players was just telling me a similar story, that he played MW2 in the old days but only recently got into tabletop BT
For me it's 11 - 0 for the new classics x)
The way the new designs are made are right on the spot for me so.... xD
The only unseen that i found cool are those stolen from Robotech. But that's because i'm a fan of macross design :)
Have a good day ^^
I just like the Ostmann Industries Nee Classics
Love the Ostroc!
i like the true MAcross looks but for battletech i prefer the new CGL in table top minis
The new designs are good. I find most of them better, despite growing up with the originals. I'm not sure if the Project Phoenix mechs are bad, but they don't come close to matching the Battletech asethetics. It's almost like they were going out of their way to not match any other mech.
There are some mechs that I never used because of the designs. The Wolverine and King Crab stand out in memory. Then I encountered them in Megamek and the BT video games. Now they're favorites.
I like the look of the 2750 KC!
I really love the new Marauder
To each their own, but none of the old designs look good side by side with the new ones. Maybe the Stinger and the Griffin but the rest no dice.
The biggest problem with the new redesigns is how they all look so similar in style. There's no "soul" in them. They don't look like they were manufactured by different companies in different star nations.
I shifted some of the manufacturers around. Earthwerks did all the Dougram designs except for the Quads. Those still stayed with Brigadier. The Destroids from Macross were all from Starcorps. The Veritechs/Vakyries (including the Crusader) were all originally General Mechanics. GM designed the Valkyrie then licensed it to Corean to free up room for bigger 'mechs (also I decided to give the Valkyrie a VF-1J head) Shocked that, that Veritech/Valkyrie never got any representation. I was torn about the Ost series. I had them stay with Ostmann, who would later sue GM over the Marauder. I still saw the Ostmanns as keeping that Regult/Zentraudi Battlepod look. You can still see the remnants of that look in the leg design. There were exceptions because those might have been smaller contractors who licensed the design.
Dont forget that the Unseen Mechs are mostly ALL plastic Kits and were designed as such with some exceptions(like Urban Mech)from Bandai and other japanese Kit Manufacturers that were designed for Robotech and MAcross before Battletech existed!So between the unseen and the NC are lying over 40 years!Most of the NEW Classics look to bulky!Greetings from a from the beginning BT player!
My favorites were the veritech looking mechs, as well. But you forgot the Valkyrie!
I prefer all of the original Unseen on all of them... But the new ones do look neat.
Will probably do some more unseen mechs eventually, including the Valk. I thought the original 14 was a good place to draw the line for one video though.
I've been introduced to Battletech by the HBS video game so I am biased when it comes to mech appearance. But the way it is described in the lore is a mix of old and new. The stinger for example, in the original GDL trilogy carries it's laser like a hand held rifle. But the marauder has always been described as having the AC5 in it's side torso as opposed to center top mounted.
Also the old designs didn't look like they could endure the damage described in the novels by just being built out of future steel or whatever. They looked like they work thanks to some Clark tech super material.
I like the new look very much, for almost all mechs. The battlemaster is the only standout for me, it looked so much better with the bubble glass cockpit and pushed out chest. It looked like a master of battle. The new model looks like a brick. It looks like a derivative of the shootist.
Does anyone else find it odd that he is talking about the "miniatures" and how they look on the table the whole time, but is displaying drawings for comparison, rather than the actual miniatures? Other than that oddity, I enjoyed it
It's a good point, but I don't have all the minis myself and I didn't want to use unpainted versions or painted ones that other non-CGL people had done, so I used the TRO images instead. There aren't really Camo Specs pictures of the Unseen minis anymore.
I do miss the unseen but hey, a)I still have all the old minis and b) Some of the new designs look a-ok
you should do an evolution of the paper/card stock to metal and plastics. some of these, like the locust, paper/card stock, I have 5 versions, and the metal/plastic, I have 6 versions. being able to see all of these in a line would be great.
You missed the ostcout, ostroc ostsol, scorpion and goliath
This video is about the original 14 from the first box set but I think I will cover those in a separate video!
I still don't understand how the non Macross/RoboTech stuff became unseen .......... And you're wrong the Shadow Hawk is the best of the three 55 tonners , better than a Wolverine at range , the best at medium range and better than the Griffin up close .
Interesting... I think my view of the SHD is pretty close to the conventional wisdom
@@TrailblazerBT oh I'm not saying your not . I just question conventional wisdom on it . I've only recently come around on the Shadow Hawk's flexibility myself
cus the non-Macross stuff were from different anime like Dougram and Crusher Joe.
As someone who saw RoboTech before they found wargaming I like both ........ And yeh project Phoenix art is mostly a miss
case by case for me
It's of course a matter of personal taste, but i know that mine is perfect. So i dare to say that your evaluation of the Rifleman is wrong. The new one is vastly superior. In my eyes, which as just stated, tell the absolute truth.
May Blake be with you. :D
I wanted to do a youtube channel doing this. The only difference i wanted to do was to show unseen, reseen, mwo, and catalyst comparison.
Archer. Hands down and the Marauder cause its arms look like ARMS not pipes
Just a friendly reminder. Have whatever preferences you want, but don’t make somebody else feel like shit because they aren’t using what is your opinion of the “correct version” of a chassis.
If you do this, you are the problem. Flat out, no questions asked.
Do not risk driving people away from the game because you have to make some sort of snide comment about their PP Warhammer (or whichever chassis it might be). That is what they introduced to the universe with, and they probably feel the same way about it that some feel about the “unseen”.
Wise words. I enjoy debating these things but only for fun
New Stinger looks a bit too bulky, espescially the legs. And I miss the pistol grip.
@22:26 "We can live!" ?
Not a fan of Duane Loose's art, as I prefer the original drawings by Shoji Kawamori and Kunio Okawara. ShimmeringSword has done a great job adapting the old designs made by both of the Japanese artists into the modern day.
Some of your art choices confused me. Some appear to be from 3025, others from 3050, and in all cases the 3025 art was superior. And the less said about Project Phoenix the better. Ugh!
I largely prefer the original unseen myself, but that's just my opinion. My biggest complaint with the New Classics relative to the unseen is that they made the barrel of the Shadow Hawk's AC/5 significantly shorter, Second biggest complaint (and to be fair, FASA started it with the Wasp) was how so many hand-held weapons got built into the arms. The whole point was that the 'mech would be able to 'sling' the weapon and use both hands to carry things; this was a major point in several of the early scenario books. Back when objective raids and looting strategic material was a big part of the game...
I chose the 3050 art when I thought it looked more similar to the miniature, but YMMV
@@TrailblazerBT : Ah. Fair enough.
I haven't seen all the old minis. I was very early to BattleTech (back when it was BattleDroids...), but very, very late to bring miniatures to the game.
The original Battletech art was so bad tho. It's like they hired a writer (not an artist) to copy/trace the source material, poorly.
And it does appear they are trying real hard to follow the art style of the guy who did them for MWO and Mechwarrior5 for the "New Classics".
So would have loved to have seen you use "better" pictures from both of the source materials instead of JUST the quick sketches FASA made.
MWO Locust by far outshines the original, by miles.
Unfortunately MWO doesnt have the wasp and stinger yet.
Original Robotech art of the Pheonix Hawk was a work of art, that FASA did no justice too. Neither did MWO.
Griffon, Shadowhawk, and Wolverine I never saw the originals from the shows until recently. But the LEAD figures were great (still have them). MWO did an ok job bringing those to life, but prefer the FASA (aka show) variants.
Thunderbolt, still to this day have not seen where the original came from. Always looked awkward in all but the best FASA art, which did exist, but MWO Really brought it to life well. So the new version wins.
Crusader looked kind of silly to me in Robotech, but there was some good FASA art back in the day. New MWO version is OK, but not great.
The real good art made of the original Warhammer is hand down the most beautiful. Use some I found as wall paper on this here computer. It really looks like an imposing weapon of war, unlike the Robotech or MWO versions, which just do not hold a candle to some of the stuff I have.
Battlemaster, again never saw the show, but it was my absolute favorite when looking at the toys and figures back in the 80s. MWO version's body looks better but lacks the bubble 2 seat cockpit that made me love the original, as well as not carrying the big ole gun.
But I'm a Clanner. Was absolutely sold on the look of the Clan mechs with the release of 3050 and all the art that poured out from that over the years. You freebirth scum dont know how to make mechs.
Archer, Rifleman, Longbow. Forgot about those....
Original Rifleman, MWO Archer (not so much the picture you posted), original Longbow.
I also got into the game during the invasion although I am a spheroid till the end
@@TrailblazerBT
I was there playing Battletech from the begining. Was a mega nerd for mechs, and wouldnt miss an episode of Robotech even though I hated the corny story.
Missed Mechwarrior 1, but played pretty much every Battletech centered computer game to death over the decades. Mechwarrior 2 is truly what turned me into a clanner. The Vulture, Mad Cat, and Masakari were my babies.
The unseen mainly came from these 3 Japanese manga/animations Macross, Fang of the sun Daougram, and Crusher Joe try searching for them.
lols your obsessed with head
The unseen archer looks like some sort of fat goblin with weirdly placed arms. Like a skinny fat man.
The new classic archer looks like it could end someone's day even before it pops open the missile bays (spelling fixed)
The unseen miniature looks way less fat than the illustrations, probably another case like the PXH where I should have shown the mini itself
@@TrailblazerBT I'll have to go look that up. I'm very familiar with Robotech so I knew what the PHX should look like. It's Roy Fokkers skull leader with the full kit.
Ok the archer was a Destroid Spartan. It's noit as bad as that one picture has it but it still has a round belly and skinnier upper arms than lower arms. I respect your opinion, but I still hold that the new one looks more like it'll wreck your day even with the doors closed
@@neobushidaro The mini is a bit skinnier than the Robotech Spartan but I can definitely see how it's fatter in the belly and forearms than the New Classic Archer!
Okay, boring old fart here, the trouble for me is that you're comparing the original FASA artwork with the new artwork, and the new artwork is just better.
However, the original designs from Dougram, Macross and Crusher Joe are iconic in a way that the new designs are not. But, model wise, no argument, the new CGL mechs kick it out of the park.
The Project Phoenix is an abomination, the Locust is cool
I do like the Project Phoenix Locust llC. CSO Archer
My favorite PP mechs were the Thunderbolt and the Marauder IIC. The T-bolt was too skinny but the mech didn't have far to fall, and the Mad IIC actually looked good.
OG Archer looks like an old man wearing a diaper. New Classics wins that hands down.
Hahaha why did you have to tell me that? Once you see that diaper thing it can't be unseen so to speak. Still prefer the old Archer because of the head though lol
Why are the original mechs considered "unseen"? I've read about and seen all these mechs in the books and figures.
www.sarna.net/wiki/Unseen
Seems like I fared well against your nostalgia. Some wins and losses I expected would go the other way around. Good and fair video all around.
I agree as well. I was with Anthony today, and steered him here, so he could see how his redesigns faired. CSO Archer
Honored to hear your thoughts on this! 🫡 And thanks for your great work, it's really helped revitalize the game, which great for everybody.
Also loved your character art for MW Destiny!
Quite a few of those choices really made me wonder what you be smokin’. Most of the new designs appear much too heavily armored with unnecessary heavy plating on arms and legs. Some are just freaking heinous looking in comparison to the originals. Particularly the Phoenix Hawk and the Crusader. Neither of them seems to give even the vaguest callback to their Veritech roots. The Phoenix Hawk is more unfinished looking and squared off in shape than fits a fast jumping medium. And the Crusader is just goofy. Poor thing looks like it needs a summer or three at fat camp and having the LRM15s in the forearms is silly.
Hahahahaha always glad to have dissenting opinions, to be clear I don't like the Pxh very much
Thats why they aren't calling back to the VF-1's roots, the original designs were technically illegal and already copyrighted so they needed to stray as far as possible from the original designs.
It's why soo many new ORIGINAL mechs from all era's look much better, they got actual mech design artists to come in and do fun, cool and interesting BM's that are still iconic to this day.
You have shown the original unseen: expect a process server. Harmony Gold lawsuit incoming.
Lol!
as an old fart, hard to go past the original Macross clones. Would have been interesting to see a side by side comparison of the unseen, project phoenix and reseen. I would rate the project phoenix Archer as the best looking Archer and the P-Hawk was pretty good as well - but tend to agree that many of the project Phoenix mechs were derpy...
one thing the new classics do better than the original unseen is consitency... what i mean is compare a unseen Warhammer and a unseen Marauder and it looks like they are from different technolegy bases... like one is a Impirial and the other an Elder unit (in Warhammer terms) whereas compare these in new classics form and they look like: yeah different ideas what to build but working from the same common tech base the end products look similar even on such different designs
Old is best but lead or putter was ugly and big compared to new sculpts
Good pewter well painted does well but a lot of the models weren't super well done either in the casting or in the cleaning glueing pinning and painting.
It's something where a really well done pewter figuring is better than a very well done plastic, but getting a good to above average plastic is easier and more common than a good pewter. There's very few masterwork of either but the masterwork pewters are more and better.
Just a and b grade plastic figs You See in plastic a lot more than pewter and the Plastics are just more forgiving. The ok I have it, the fig is ok but not going to show it off. Lots of those in pewter fewer in plastic, this is were those extra lower a b and upper c grade plastic figs come from. The plastic is just more forgiving.
There were also the Japanese edition of Battletech which had a new set of Studio Nue designs to replace the Macross/Dougram/Crusher Joe ones which were used complete with insignia from the original anime in the first few editions and were better looking than the Tech Read out version.
Oh yeah I saw those, that's another level of anime looking