What is the Core of Borderline Personality Disorder?
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- Опубликовано: 10 дек 2018
- This video answers the question: What is the core of borderline personality disorder? The term ‘core” refers to the most basic, central concept that we can link to borderline personality disorder. Borderline personality disorder is a Cluster B personality disorder in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, so it's in the same cluster as antisocial, histrionic, and narcissistic, personality disorders. This cluster is the dramatic, erratic, and emotional cluster. The symptom criteria for borderline personally disorder include frantic efforts to avoid abandonment; unstable relationships (idealization and devaluation, love/hate cycle); identity disturbance (unstable sense of self); impulsivity and at least two areas that could be self-damaging; suicidal behavior; affective instability (emotional dysregulation); chronic feelings of emptiness; inappropriate, intense anger; and paranoid ideation or severe dissociation.
Meares, R., Gerull, F., Stevenson, J., & Korner, A. (2011). Is self disturbance the core of borderline personality disorder? An outcome study of borderline personality factors. Australian & New Zealand Journal of Psychiatry, 45(3), 214-222.
Borderlines are oscar worthy actors. I think the borderline is really good at walking around in the world and pretending like we're okay. acting normal so to speak when inside there's this wheel that keeps turning, that no one can see, all of the symptoms, and you almost feel like everyone else seems to get this thing called life, and Im like, why do I feel out of sync all the time, why is it so hard for me, and why is it always been so hard for me I feel like I'm a spectator not a participant
patrick lane wow, only one who has lived it can understand. I get it!
Spectator!!! Wow, that’s it
Never give up!
Is how I been feeling all my life
That could be a good half baked idea for a show. 6 main protagonists all with different types of Cluster B Personality Disorders, and they're all at the same acting school. Juilliard
I think at the core of most borderline disorders (not all) is trauma, especially emotional neglect and invalidation. This creates differing ego states, which is at the core of the fragmented self. That's also the reason for switching, also idealization and devaluation (there the ego states are combined with the fear of abandonment).
@joe curtin yes, society values beauty. But that doesn't mean you will get familial validation for it. Some parents will withhold out of jealousy and spite.
Something to think about. Thanks.
I strongly recommend Dr. Daniel Fox YT-video “Origins of the 4 BPD Subtypes.”
He really gets BPD; is an experienced expert in the field working with helping and treating people with this disorder.
✨✨👋😊✨✨
What do you mean by switching? Do you mean splitting?
@@TL-ch1xd I second this, he's incredible and very helpful with how educational he is without demonizing those suffering with the disorder.
You are doing such a HUGE service to the online community with your youtube channel Dr. Grande. There is so much educational value here and you break it down into such simplistic language and examples and make it so easy for the layperson to follow along. I appreciate your channel so much, it has helped me understand myself, my family and my relationships much more deeply.
I second your comment, Im using Grande in place of my professor because he is just more enjoyable to watch
It's the emptiness of not feeling understood. I have closed down due to feeling left behind by so many people throughout my life. My mother and father abandoned me as well as both siblings. Friends were never real or trustworthy, yet I feel I am an honorable friend. Female colleagues were gossips and I could no longer handle the backbiting. It was a trigger. I don't know how to navigate in the world without feeling empty and drained by so called "loved ones." That causes me to "split" and feel angry and let down. My core feeling is loneliness/emptiness. I am hypervigilant and easily triggered. Trying to reach out pushes people away. Thus, I keep to myself and isolate/numb the pain.
Same and I'm not being understood tired of explaining and feel left out I'm completely shutting down it became so bad that I dont like people anymore dont want any form of relationship but I'm in a relationship but I split bad and dont want no closeness even though I do at the same time I'm tired of wearing a mask I just dont care no longer and I feel like others blame me for everything even if it something that can be fix it spins in my head all day long it dont stop its draining me I'm very unstable and I can no longer feel love or sympathy for others that'd how tired I became I'm easy triggered so I numb myself and isolate myself more
Donna Eastman God, I feel you and this was a year ago and I just wrote the same thing. So crazy. Hope all is better for you
I hear that too. I am very cautious of ppl who say they were "abandoned". It can easily be misused or manipulated. BPD are known for being manipulators that twist and distort things in order to gain approval or sympathy or validation. Another thing that I also find odd, is people who always have bad things happening to them or people always leaving them. What is that likelihood? That 100% of people in your life were terrible? Probably not that high. However, it is likely that you attribute too much intent to meaningless actions and require so much undivided attention that you drain other people. BPD attach to strangers too easily. I understand why, but one must realize where to each of your circle belongs on your stepladder of life. This is why men are unlikely to be BPD. They are able to compartmentalize each area in its box, and don't really care about external validation. My point is, context is everything. It is easy to label everyone else as bad (also a known trait of BPD), when in reality its just you misinterpreting the situation. I just don't feel bad for ppl with BPD. More so the ones who continually complain to twist situations or those who intentionally put themselves in bad situations despite being told to stop.
I would say how to fix that, but then I realize I can Easily Revert back to that at like any moment, and have. Especially at the end of the day, good times and feelings begin to melt away, invalidation and failures rear their ugly head and can consume my whole being if I'm not careful (& even then... But ultimately I know taking my own life is irrational- there's absolutely no way to know all the evidence of what will happen in the future for better or worse...)
Life is about living is about fun... Even if maybe concerning for how much I hate most types of excercising nowadays hah, will/ should become more difficult in the future... Altho this is worrying about worrying, I'm sure I'll be passionate enough about Something and see the light and keep pushing the powers & people that probably want me to kill myself, away lol
@@panama2468 That's interesting. BPD's are not collecting feelings in a jar. It is only after we've exposed ourselves and the relationship has failed that we analyze it and then realize it happened again. There is no manipulation. We give ourselves wholehearted. Then fail to set or recognize when boundaries are not properly placed to managed our expectations and then disappointments.Boundaries are what we have to work on in relationships. However, we get worn out and sometimes don't think about what we should be doing. We are in the moment and enjoying what we believe is real.
Painful divide between true self and public self
PKV1611221 1611221 exactly its so unnecessary to
yes,bits feels like, someone please understand and validate me. I'm lost without someone to bounce myself off of
There is no public self... In the public the self gets lost. Source: WW2
@@mad7fisher
“I m nobody! Who are you?
Are you nobody, too?
Then there’s a pair of us - don’t tell!
They’d banish us, you know.
How dreary to be somebody!
How public, like a frog
To tell your name the livelong day
To an admiring bog!”
~ Emily Dickinson
YES
The Core is childhood trauma. It’s time to start talking about this so we can heal this. 💗
Diana Lund it is talked about a lot. Let’s start doing something about it. 😃
Exactly right my friend
Diana Lund but there are those with BPD who didn’t experience childhood trauma.
Birdsong childhood trauma can be caused by something as common as your parents splitting up. Doesn’t even have to be an ugly divorce. I was in a training on titled “Becoming Trauma Informed” for my job and the expert was convinced that Adverse Childhood Experiences(ACE) = trauma induced rewiring of the developing brain.
Crappy childhood fairy has an entire channel devoted to coping with cptsd. She's very good at avoiding psych labels and talks through ways of stabilizing trauma now u are an adult.
People with borderline are always portrait as monsters, and people advice others to run if they meet a borderliner. I was diagnosed as an adult, but don't have much in common with the 'general' person with this disorder. I've read about the quiet or silent borderliner that take everything out on themselves, suffer in silence, and are extremely introverted. That is the category that I can identify with. Not everyone with that disorder is a 'manipulative, violent, irrational, narcissistic freak', ya know?
Jennifer Long So true but people love to talk about that crazy borderline. I guess that’s fun to them.
Same
@@christar9527 not really. It's quite painful.
I agree with you. There is a stigma about this disorder that "borders" on complete ignorance.
Me too...
Identity disturbance is probably the biggest because imomost bpd sufferers are gonna be child abuse survivors. The anger comes from it and the hypervigilant and uncertain sense of self is a haunting holdover from not always knowing who and how we are supposed to be in any given environment, socially or intimately. It can look like "angry anxiety" I guess to people who have never heard of borderline.
When you go through abuse, even if it's not so traumatic that you completely fragment to the point of DID I think there is still an emotional and cognitive fragmenting that happens when you have to switch between "I'm with abuser" mode and " I'm with safe people" mode and "I'm with average strangers..be vigilant." Mode and "I'm with FAVORITE PEOPLE DON'T PISS THEM OFF BECAUSE THEY'RE THE BEST YOU'LL EVER GET." mode. Part of taming the disorder is realizing that you don't have to and shouldn't have to abide by extreme internal rules to survive at all times. Normal people don't usually do that, and that you can relax and be authentic without dying. I also think that borderline might be more common in girls who were abused and maybe on the autism spectrum but were maybe so smart /appeared gifted that it never was diagnosed so they are just written off as sensitive (both emotionally and sensory wise). But if you are sensitive with rigid thinking tendencies, and raised by an abusive parent who will manipulate both your precocious intelligence AND your intense emotions, it is a ripe as all hell breeding ground for BPD.
I don't wanna be mean but my first thought was: Why is he in prison?
I had to think for a second to get this - brain is moving slowly this morning :)
@@DrGrande Lol.... Actually orange is the colour of the Dutch national football team and I'm from Holland. So I like your shirt very much doc 😃 !!
Ha you thought you were behind on this Grande? Lol
xy z - me too! 😆
😂
In my opinion the core of BPD is "doubt" about everything. It includes doubt about: Self conception - identity - love - trust - intimacy - career - future - present - past - truth - honesty - commitment - their body - their feelings - their sex and in one word everything...
I agree. And that that doubt stems from being a highly sensitive child that grew up in a (neurotic?) home with (self-centred, immature?) grownups without enough clear guidance or stability, and with emotional and/or physical abuse and/or neglect.
very true.. I doubt everything about me.. I doubt my own intentions before I do something or approach someone.. I end up alone in isolation
I think this theory is pretty much spot on. I feel like if I had a solid sense of self, a persistent, largely unchanging foundation for me to fall back on in times of crisis and for CONSISTENT introspection to help build a cohesive ego then I wouldn't have developed BPD. I think the extreme emotional sensitivity is also a huge component and certainly precipitates and perpetuates the disorder, but there are many mental illnesses that revolve around or to some extent include abnormal emotional lability (e.g. bipolar). You don't know who in the fuck you are because your personhood/ego/self constantly and AUTOMATICALLY changes depending on your environment/the external context. I cannot ground myself like other people can because I am always osmosing, always blending in to my surroundings like a chameleon to the point where I can't pull myself together long enough to say "hey, that's me!". And even if that does happen it's only temporary. It's like I don't have a center, a core, a captain at the helm (really, an ego) that commands his entire ship as if it were a direct extension of himself...I feel like I am every plank, net, canvas, crewman, porthole, mast, and puke bucket on the ship and it makes for a real fucking mess when you're so "spread out" and can't ever ever EVER consolidate yourself and become that captain like everyone else. It's like a never ending acid trip - the outline of your body is just so weak and permeable to the point where you're spilling into everything like a liquid.
Space Violet, well put, I like yor creative imagery & descriptive narrative
Exactly. I feel like my boundaries are too fluid which corresponds with emotional sensitivity. We already pick up on everything going on around us. There’s no central commander to steer me through life, especially in different and difficult situations. I think it’s a misunderstood gift that we need to learn to channel. Sorry, I’m exhausted right now and probably don’t make sense.
i consider myself as "personality fluid" 😢😢😢
sometimes I'd behave like ENFP. ppl would call me "funny, outgoing, witty" but then during family situation, if i see mother/father/paternal figure, I'll be anxious and switch to INTJ kinda vibes. ppl who dont know my story, would assume that im Jekyll and Hyde, at worst, they'd call me "narcissist". I never had bad intentions to ppl, i don't wanna hurt them, but my personality isn't stable. i can switch from summer to winter real quick. It depends on my mood, my surroundings, if there's flashbacks or not...
thank u for writing this. i just screenshot'ed this cuz i want to remember that im NOT ALONE with this feeling. 😢🙏
Hey do you write? Like a blog or sth. Love your writing, and I couldn't have expressed my 'fluidity' any better
You wrote this such a long time ago, but it very poetically put the way I feel at very upsetting intervals. I've not been diagnosed, and still not sure bpd is me: I am the captain, I do navigate in anything to do with career, my art, and situations where I am the one taking care of others... but when it comes to close personal relationships, I feel myself become a liquid/gas, my sense of self, that solidity leaks out somehow, and I morph into the wallpaper. It's weird reading these comments and chiming with things people are saying. I'v ealways felt like the only alien on this planet! Thanks for sharing
tread lightly, with me, as I have no emotional skin to protect me from your words, or gestures...I'm riddled with scars you cannot see, and I frequently pull the scabs off of wounds, (ruminating) wounding myself again
Damn. Those your words? They touched me.
I wish I could help. I do this myself regarding the last two years of my mother's life. I'm not sure I ever was able to disconnect from her because I never created s family of my own. 2 of my siblings did, and that strengthens ones identity of self, I believe. Don't be so hard on yourself. Meditate...to be more Ptesent. Forgive everyone and especially yourself.
Naturally.
I think this is a lie
I’m writing this down. You are
Profound.
When you say "the idea that someones existence comes to an end if they loose a close relationship" is at the core of BPD, it reminded me of "the fear of death", as if someone with BPD has experienced a terrible, life threatening event at one point in their life, that was so intense that it shook and broke them at their core.
It's true. There is an event that breaks something inside. You don't realize it at the time because you can't process what happened. When those around you ignore what happened or fail to notice your suffering, the only thing you can do is to leave the pain and grief inside. Years pass until something big happens and you're not equipped to deal with it. This happens when you become so weary and brittle, it's a matter of time when you finally collapse.
You have no words to describe what you're feeling because, well, you stopped learning words that are about emotion. Without words, feelings have no meaning. To know our feelings is critical because they are the only way we can identify who we are.
Very interesting...”what am I supposed to be now?”, “How am I supposed to be?”, in relationship I’m the “pleaser” in the beginning even a little codependent, very feminine, very giving, but if I don’t get back the love and care I try to give, I’ll start to feel like “why even try?” “Nomatter who I’m I cannot be everybody”...than I show my “true” self ( which nobody wants to experience) or ....which one is my true self? I feel like I lost it long time ago...Soooo so complicated....I really hate this struggle....I am not meant to be in a relationship...that’s the safest if I don’t let anybody close...
Zsuzsanna Molnar same..you explained it so welll!!
B’s world 1989 glad to know I’m not alone feeling this way...hug you Lovely!!
Wow. I completely get what you are saying. Many of the same types of feelings/thoughts/experiences here.
text book modus operandi for borderlines... bait and switch... not that complicated... who you are agaisnt who you want to be perceived, majority of people embrace who they are.
@@antoniolima1068 That makes so much sense, Antonio. I just learned something about the illness and about myself. Thank you. :)
I believe the deep core is devastating insecurity. If you never had in childhood a secure person to attach to. Think about this as the factor which leads to all other symptoms...
As BPD I can attest to that as being a leading factor in developing the disorder. IMO BPD can be a form of PTSD or a product of the latter to the point of being almost indistinguishable from each other.
@@chapiit08 That was exactly my thought. Cptsd in early childhood if remained untreated leads to personality disorders.
My dad is maybe borderline and narcissist and my mom not protective at all, scared, dependent, avoidant of the reality, no other people around to protect me and the result is me struggling daily with existing even tho I'm in recovery
Been there done that! I agree.
I totally agree with you! That’s the core problem!
I agree with you completely ...I have no clue who I truly am ...and that affects every aspect of your life ....
Me too and it's exhausting
I go to the darkest, most negative thoughts about other people because I know they do not understand me. I may have no intention of being mean or hurtful to anybody but this is how I seem to come across. I am not even aware of it! This is at the crux of my life story beginning at a very early age. I thought adults were stupid people who enjoyed bossing me around and tormenting me because I was physically smaller than them. I thought my peers were intellectually inferior and very ignorant because they did not "see" who I really was. I learned to keep my so-called personality hidden from human beings; I found solace in animals, art, music, dance and writing. Thank you for your video.
Mmmm. I just LOVE animals, music, art and writing.
Wish I could get paid to do all of them 😊
MissFAtwo yes!!!!
Same
No. You were aware of how mean and hurtful you were. In fact, you chose to say those exactly because you knew they were destructive. Let’s say, when you meet someone new, there is no chance you would lash out on them. So the lack of awareness doesn’t justify what you did. The key part is, recognizing that you were not able to regulate your mood, your word of choice, or, taking accountability is a good starting point. When we got a serious disorder, it’s out of one’s willpower and capacity for a self-recovery. Doctors and experts are there to help. It could be difficult but you will be on the track of recovery with their expertise. But, rationalizing wrongdoing is very likely to lead to your next tough moment.
For me, at least, the core is trauma. trauma that happened so early in my life i cant quite understand or even remember, and then trauma i piled up because i thought "this is normal" and then just had to burt out of me... I've always felt empty, displaced, out of touch with reality or like i belong to another time or reality...I question my entire existence and if the people around me are real or my thoughts even mine... but the core of it is having been exposed to trauma, abuse, abandonment, violence or neglect when you needed it the most. -F
yep
IMO, identity in BPD is formed externally, and this is because of their extreme responsiveness to anything that triggers an emotional stimulus. If every emotion or feeling experienced is as if it's the utmost importance, due to being in a state of "fight or flight" while experiencing, it can be very difficult for a person to write a firm narrative of what their self actually is, and stick to it. Their self becomes wrapped around whatever the most recent emotion or feeling that they feel. As a result, a sense of self can't be maintained, and past experiences are not internalized into a learning process, because these each feel so relatively insubstantial in comparison to the current emotional state and feelings. Thus, I would say the core feature of borderline that drives all others, is an overresponsiveness to environmental stimulus (overactive amygdala/underactive neural pathways linking to cortex to the amygdala?)
Oh, thanks for this.
I find that true in me, giving importance to things at the expense of everything else. I thought it was how thinking works till recently. 😅
I feel like my main desire is to b relaxed and *not care*. But I don't know how to do that. BPD trains of thoughts also push me personally into sacrificing myself my time my energy for others wellbeing. I think it's because once they're feeling good then they "can take care of me". " Once they're all set... it's my turn" or something along those lines.!🤔
You're so correct and that's why some people think we're vampires looking for ""supply". We just want to be around someone calm.
I do feel this resonating with my problem. Thank you for the insight
@@blue_sky_bright_sun7599 thanks again for explaining it from your point of view. You are certainly not alone in that! This is exactly why I vowed not to have another favorite person. Ever.
A lens of attachment trauma in combination with understanding the nuanced relationships with caregivers helps give us insight into clusters of (CPTSD) symptoms knows as personality disorders. From my direct experience combined with research it seems that attachment trauma and family dysfunction is at the core of all personality disorders.
In my case one parent was a “covert narcissist” and one was authoritarian. Neither attended to my emotional needs and I learned to dissociate from them as a survival response. I also took on perfectionism and people pleasing to keep the peace. I was all about making others happy so they would not abandon me or punish me. In turn my sense of self was based completely on what others needed from me.
I would certainly be completely comfortable saying that you probably do not have BPD & you actually have C-PTSD, which can look a lot like BPD, but isn’t. There has been a chronic issue with ppl being misdiagnosed with BPD when they should have been diagnosed with C-PTSD, but were not properly diagnosed because it has not been a disorder that is in the DSM, despite being widely known & accepted by medical health professionals & within the mental health community as an actual disorder, although I believe that has recently been changed & for good reason. BPD, imho, should not be a diagnosis given to anyone who experienced repeated traumas over a period of time as a child...the whole basis of the disorder is that the thoughts, fears, emotional responses, anger, & outbursts of the individual in regards to abandonment, relationship issues, & their sense of self are irrational. There is no reasonable, logical, or realistic reason or basis for the individual to be fearful of these things, react so extreme, or even believe that they are going to happen to them...However, on the contrary, someone with C-PTSD who has endured repeated traumas & even abandonment by a parent, guardian, caretaker, or trusted-close-loved one during their developmental years is not acting or thinking irrationally, they are not being unreasonable. There is a very realistic, reasonable, & logical reason for them to have these fears, thoughts, beliefs, emotional responses, etc. because they were hurt, abandoned, betrayed, etc. by someone they were suppose to be able to trust & depend on to take care of them & love them...so if it’s happened to them already by a parent, guardian, caretaker, or loved one when they were a child, then it is reasonable for them to believe that anyone is capable of doing that to them...that would be a very normal brain/thought/emotional response to that type of experience, which does not mean they are suffering from a mental “disorder” or “illness”. Therapy & healing the trauma will help to resolve some of those fears, beliefs, & emotions...whereas someone with BPD will not benefit from therapy as much & they don’t have any traumas to heal from...it is truly caused by a “disorder” or “illness” within the brain.
@@ldivine2550 Completely agree. 👍👏 Except the last sentence: BPDs were traumatised as children as well.
Wow, that must've been tough to deal with. I hope you find healing because you could attract controlling persons. Out of curiosity. How does a narcissist & authoritarian go together? What was the relationship like and are they still together?
Kay Child of God They actually are still together - married for 48 years now! Both of them have mellowed out as they have gotten older. My Dad was more authoritarian towards us kids, but not so much towards my Mom. She was pretty good at holding her own with him, though the fights when I was young left a strong imprint. The fights were mostly due to his drinking and both of them being young, insecure, and immature. It was a rough start for them. They still don’t seem to have great heart-centred communication but they still live under the same roof and share a life. They just don’t have any emotional intimacy. My mother’s Narrcisstic traits are more of the covert type, so it is more subtle. She would say really hurtful things and never notice all of my emotional turmoil. She is capable of doing really nice things but she seem kinda flat emotionally.
In Inner Family System Therapy there is the concept of the Grown Wounded Child. I see them both as that, though their wounds are different and I do my best to remember that despite their flaws, they are human.
L Divine2 Yes I agree 100%.
In Inner Family Systems (IFS) therapy, there’s the concept of the Grown Wounded Child (GWC). Majority of “personality disorders” can be though of in those terms it seems. I like it because it humanizes everyone, no matter how damaged we are.
I was diagnosed with bpd, I only have 4 traits but they diagnosed me so I could get DBT therapy. The core for me would be being a sensitive person that grew up with narcissistic/ invalidating parents. This is very painful. I feel like a toddler that's been dumped at the side of the road. Mild ssri's limit my stress response to situations therefore my anger is controllable. I have gone no contact with my parents and trying to work on trusting my inner logic which is working :) my life has improved and I'm creating abundance around me. My life has improved. I have been single for 3 years I haven't been with anyone and that's ok. Its noone elses problem what happened to me. I spend a lot of time practicing self care and loving the self. But I don't have an identity as such in society, I don't feel I can work I'm ashamed of my label. I'm a bit of a recluse and am very aware when venturing out in public. I don't want to mess things up for my son.
I experience a high level of stress for a minor situation because I grew up in chaos emotionally. I never got taught boundaries or encouraged to trust my self and my ideas or interests were flattened and ignored so you don't grow much of a self. I was taught I would be given silent treatment and that I was selfish for having dreams. It will take the rest of my life to come to terms with what my parents did to me. They caused my mental illness but I'm going to improve my life as much as I can and pass down the tools and validation I had to find for myself
Hollie Louise Cooper this is exactly what happened to me as well 😮😢
@@GMarieBehindTheMask it's horrible isn't it :-( I am sorry you are experiencing this. All we wanted was to be seen and loved xx
Hollie Louise Cooper exactly and they are oblivious to it !!! It’s so embarrassing and unfair 😓😢
I feel strength in you. You have guts and perseverance that maybe you don't even recognize. Wishing you the best and good luck.
I feel that deeply. I have it too because of childhood trauma and invalidation. You have a positive outlook on your life now and that is someting to applaud. You are not alone because others feel your pain and understand.
This was an interesting watch! Before watching this, I would have said that fear of abandonment would be the core, but upon further reflection, I think identity disturbance could further explain that fear of abandonment. If there is no sense of self, it becomes easier to rely on others to get that anchor on emotions and security, which makes the idea of abandonment something to be feared more than it might be for people who have more of a sense of self. I know that personally, there have been times when I've felt that I wouldn't exist if someone left my life, and even after I fell out with some of those people, it took me weeks or months to untangle which traits were my own personality and which were pieces of that other person I'd picked up to feel more whole.
Miranda Christy Well said. I agree.
Brilliant observations, Miranda! I agree and can relate to EVERYTHING you said. We have ALOT in common.
I think that's it in a nutshell. One friend I have is diagnosed. She's very frank with me. She hangs out with family and people she says she doesn't even like. She has a narcissistic relative freeloading simply because my friend has BPD and bipolar so she can't handle being left alone. She tries to be helpful, but not because she wants to, actually she resents it, but because without them she is nothing, blank, empty. As you impled, unmoored. I can hear her pain and cries when she tells me this. And her anger at them but also even more at herself. I can sense her self hatered and revulsion. Like a cripple looking at their twisted and deformed body. She keeps trying but she's fallen and can't get up.
From my experience as a borderline, my emotional instability is what leads to my unstable sense of self and all the other symptoms.
I feel they feed one another; at times for me, it's hard to know where I stand... almost like a codependent but with hyper severity/sensitivity. Feeling like they are or I am an enemy 1 to the other. Then the reactions flow in privet on my self or in public to the person if I'm feeling threatened.
correct, emocional inconsistency breeds a faulty perception of reality, great insight.
@Ryan C shame is a feminine tool for correcting behaviour and breeds inedequacy and insecurities ( thats why males responded so outraged to gillette comercial it dosent work on males) becouse males use experience, they show how its done.
In the disorder its the result of deep feelings of unworthiness when primary trust bonds fail. be safe
@@antoniolima1068 what you're talking about is a fragile sense of masculinity. It has nothing to do with identity disturbance when you rely on the oppression of someone else to feel good about yourself.
Nicollete James, yea that makes sense but is the emotions the core? or a reaction to something deeper??
I think the anger criteria for BPD is definately a symptom of a deeper core issue so I wonder if the other emotionality is as well?
But I get y u'd say that cause it does make sense that the emotions disrupt enuf to make one (?) whoT.H. am i? & I can see how it makes sense that it leads to or contributes to all other symptom criteria
This guy is a genius. He explains things SO very clearly for the lay person.
I have BPD, was diagnosed around age 14, I am 38 now. After watching this video, I 100% agree that the core of my issues are with self identity. I was in DBT therapy twice a week for over 2 years and the skills I learned helped me gain control over my emotional disregulation, suicidal ideation, compulsive behaviors and severe anger. My public identity is stellar. I have an MBA in management and international business from a really good school, I'm an IT system consultant making over $100k/year and enjoy my work. My parent's only have highschool diplomas and don't make a lot of money, so I am pretty much "self made". I bust ass at work and had 2 jobs for a long time, so I have paid off all of my college loans, have money saved in the bank and am on track to retire comfortably. From the outside looking in, I have it made. But on the inside, I wonder if any of this is worth living for, I feel completely empty, and I see life in general as pointless. My self and my identity are in 2 seperate dimensions. In thinking about it, I do a lot of things as "all or nothing". I think when I go all in on something it keeps my identity so busy that I don't have time to think about my self, so I don't notice the emptiness. But if I have too much time to think, or when I first wake up in the mornings, I pay attention to my self and get depressed.
from my own experience id say that the identity disturbance is the core for me. at the end of everything im angry and dissapointed in not knowing who i am or what i should do. im frustrated. ive always wanted to help people, but i cant seem to help myself. looking at getting help now again. had some episodes recently, and really want to get to the bottom of this. thank you
Great video! I agree with your assessment of what is at the core of BPD. It helps explain the person's internalization of their early childhood experiences, and why not all those who experience a chaotic and /or traumatic childhood develop BPD. I learned from a seminar a few years ago to view BPD as a sort of learning disorder - that clients (potentially already highly sensitive) never learned how to self soothe or have healthy relationships, and that they feel things much more acutely. I can see how a fragmented sense of self could create constant destabilization causing the nervous system to be constantly on alert and hypersensitive. And how addressing this core with other skills building could be life changing!
Mia Hall, very interesting thoughts! Thank you for sharing.
To go along with your idea, I think a lack of secure attachment is perhaps the most impactful aspect on how a child processes trauma. That seems like the foundation for learning how to cope with their emotions and feel validated.
Mia Hall exactly the case
Resiliance development, too, maybe? If possible?
I tend to agree with the video that however hard we try, whatever skills we learn, the sense of a secure, stable self cannot be retrieved. Maybe it works just as language learning, it has an optimal age, and it closes down around 7-9, growing a self also has an optimal age time. On the other hand, if the self gets fragmented through abuse, all the king’s horses and all the king’s men... It feels like being Cinderella, the clock strikes and the horses turn to mice, the ball gown to rags, and often even if people ask about the glass slippers we have been flashing around, it is hard to believe it was ever ours.
From my experience with a person in my family with this diagnosis, it was brought on due to lack of recognition of positive behavior (lack of praise).
This person also experienced unwarranted blaming at home and labeling as a "problem child" in school due to bullying.
This resulted in persistent low self-esteem (lack of self-worth) and self-destructive behavior.
Yes
I was never praised for my successes as a kid - was never acknowledged - when it mattered most / only after the damage was done, and it’s the neglect from that one person you romanticized. He’s literally a walking reminder of everything I’ve failed at or am going to fail at.
Dr Grande, I am 10/10 bpd. It began in childhood. We lived with great uncertainty about our family unit. I was in charge of my 2 younger siblings. My mom had a lover....we didn't tell my dad. I am impulsive. I was never wanted or loved in childhood. I was molested by my cousin and his friends. You speak about all this, but don't live it. I was with a narcissist for 18 yrs. Now I am finding peace, somewhat.
Yes. Living in a chaotic family, feeling unloved , abused and getting involved with narcissistic people creates BPD.
I seem to have quite a severe manifestation of this disorder and the thing that troubles me the most is this constant uncertainty about everything, from who I am to what is happening. I just see an infinite amount of interpretations and I don't know which one is mine. So maybe the core is uncertainty or something along those lines.
I am with you here friend, I feel the same, pure uncertainty and its terrifying., The mind searching for some sense of safety or control or regularity. and it never really finds it.
Omg 😮 This is true for me 100%
Omg so relatable !
Sound like what Hellen Keller might have gone through. I hope you can find and understand yourself gently. Best wishes.
i think that's one of the most troubling things to deal with, it goes hand in hand with the unstable sense of self, im always extremely indecisive about almost anything and a lot of the time im not fully able to trust my own thoughts or feelings which becomes very apparent in relationships
This makes sense to me. I've often said that I don't know who I am or what I want. And I also don't feel like I'm in touch with my feelings. Or that I connect with others. Recently I could see that one thing is the ideas I have about myself and the reality.
❤
7:03 this small part hit hard for me. four years ago i came out as trans to my mother who has bpd, and her constant outbursts of rage and ignoring me made me repress my feelings and live as a girl instead. because beyond her i didn't have anyone. this year i came out as trans to everyone and she refused to talk about it. i have great friends now and i'm a bit older and felt like i could take what she dishes out, but this time her feelings were different. she talks to me apathetically, and doesn't have the time to listen when i speak. one day she said to me "so i'm going to lose the whole you."
it really stuck in my head, made me feel awful. this part of the video helped me understand why she feels that way. she thinks she's losing me completely, when i'm still the same person i've always been. part of her identity is having a daughter, and she feels that if she has a son we'll be less close, and its like an abyss to her.
thank u for helping me understand!! x
I'm quite impressed by your ability to out into words the psycho-spiritual splits in a person with BPD and even the existential issues people with BPD grapple with. Learned a lot thank you Dr. Grande
My name is Kathleen and I have BPD. I was diagnosed about five or six years ago, but I see the ways in which it manifested in me as a child and before I was diagnosed.
I'm also an addict, and I started attending NA meetings and working the program when I was 22 years old, about 4 years before my diagnosis. And I'm forever grateful to that 12 step program for teaching me how to self analyze and be self aware, because I definitely consider myself to be more aware of my borderline tendencies and motives than other borderlines usually are.
I believe the core of BPD is ultimately abandonment trauma, because for me, everything seems to stem from that. And I know various people have a variety of these nine criteria, so not everyone has the frantic efforts to avoid abandonment etc., but the majority of us do seem to carry that trait. My unstable sense of self stems from abandonment because I tend to conform to who I think my partner is or who I think they want me to be, and sometimes develop or pretend to develop their interests or hobbies as a way to further connect. And when that relationship dissipates, I end up very lost and unsure of who I am once again, since that relationship may have given me a particular identity. Obviously unstable relationships has a lot to do with abandonment because I'm always worried someone is going to leave and always looking for possible signs, clues, facial expressions, reading between the lines in conversations (aka assuming); and clearly this also pertains to those paranoid thoughts. I've often used self harm or suicide as a way to get my partner to understand how badly they're hurting me or how I need them and I "can't survive if they leave" because I "love them so much", so those end up often used as manipulative tools (even though the manipulation isn't really intentional, it's based on wanting to relieve suffering). Anger is also related to abandonment trauma because I'm sensitive to situations where I feel like someone doesn't like me or they look at me the wrong way or use the wrong tone of voice, and that provokes anger because I feel like I'm being misunderstood. Impulsiveness clearly relates as well. I already mentioned I'm an addict, so drug use is one impulsive aspect for me as well as sex. And I will use drugs more if I think someone is going to leave me or they DO leave me, and I've also used drugs as a way to connect with a partner and try to share a common experience or feeling. Sex is a difficult subject due to past trauma, but I've definitely used it as a means to connect and to feel loved and wanted, and if those sexual advances etc. aren't reciprocated, I feel very rejected and spiral into abandonment trauma mode. I also deal with dissociation sometimes when emotions get to overwhelming, especially sometimes emotions about someone leaving etc. I could go on and on, but you get the gist.
I've been enjoying your videos often. My ex partner/friend/who knows has ASPD, and falls into the sociopathic traits category, so I've been seeking information from your videos in relation to that relationship because there are so many core differences between us.
I would love to discuss BPD etc. more with you and I am more than willing to provide any personal insight into this disorder for you. Thanks.
kmulcahy316@gmail.com
If painful incongruence between the identity and the self is at the core of BPD (I feel it is), then treatment such as Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT) isn't sufficient to heal BPD.
Sara Keisler Right.
No but It's a start. And it is very helpful. Schema is recommended for NPD but I think it would be beneficial for BPD also.
Great analysis and I think you're very close to the truth. I have BPD myself and based both on my own experience and on a ton of material I've read about it, I have no doubt at all that the corner stone of BPD is SHAME. By shame I mean "I am X" or "this part of me is X" (X being a negative judgment of some sort like "bad", "stupid", "unworthy" etc'), as opposed to guilt which is more like "I *did* something bad/stupid" etc'. I think shame is actually a fundamental building block in every person's personality actually because I believe it's the way in which the child's mind *edits out* all the parts that it realizes are unwanted (aka "invalid" / could lead to society *rejecting* him or her). I think in a healthy environment there is a healthy level of shame, like shame over things like hitting another kid for no reason etc', however with BPD there was constant shaming over everything - or in other words - constant INVALIDATION (which afaik Linehan believes was every BPD child's childhood environment). The constant invalidation/shaming/rejection will cause the child to try to edit out more and more of his personality until there is nothing left and he is left with the conclusion that literally *everything* about him, including his very core, is inherently invalid/shameful and he must reject every part of his true self in order to avoid being rejected by all of society - which deep down he believes will happen if he ever allows any part of his true self to be revealed to the world, which is why he must constantly (and brutally) repress ALL of it.
Anxiety!! Is at the core of BPD.
Fear a close second. Every choice and thought has anxiety and fear sitting on top. The best description of a BPD person like me is a 4 year old who has lost their parents in a mall. That feeling is all pervasive in me every minute of the day. But I will go one further and give a better description.
Imagine a movie where the hero is hidding behind a wall with no ammo left and must run and dodge bullets to get to safety. Except there is no safety! Life is nothing but building up the strength and courage to go running from one wall to another. BUT in fact there is no man with a gun intent on killing me. It's all in my mind. This is why BPD is exhausting. I'm 48 now and realize I'm not a hero - just a skilled hidder. Whatever caused my loneliness and fear and anxiety in the first place is long gone. And this is why BPD is a also a form of PTSD. And the ANGER of this enemy is projected onto everyone I know. I am tired of running, my health and looks are fading making it even harder to survive. 😔
Good vidz doc
I think you did a great job of explaining the paranoia and anxiety still reverberating from childhood abuse.
Agree the unstable identity sounds like a probable core.
Lova aaa if so what is the cause?
@@GMarieBehindTheMask yes. What is the probable cause of the probable core?
Another great video, thank you Dr Grande! I think that the anger is the symptom that is more obvious and the first thing that indicates that something is wrong. Bpd seem to be constantly angry over everything ,even when they appear calm or even depressed i think there is still anger in them. The core problem in my view is a deep feeling of inadequacy , i havent seen this mentioned but i believe is a major part of the disorder
I agree, the anger is the most obvious symptom many times, which can distract attention from other symptoms that are also important.
Ella, I def think the anger indicates something IS wrong & I believe that is exactly how that emotion is sposed to serve an individ: as an indicator
(even tho I think it is so pervasive/ingrained/longstanding in BPD that it almost metastasizes & is not as well serving until a person gets educated on BPD)
That inadequacy bit makes sense
I think it’s deeper than that. They don’t know at all who they are and feel totally lost. If it was just inadequacy there wouldn’t be the extreme rage.
I agree. My anger is always in the background because I'm an insecure douchebag.
@@blorkpovud1576 there's no need to talk about yourself like that. You should be your best friend and best friends don't say things like that. Please be gentle.
I admit I have a problem with envy most people I see as having their s*** together and being able to maintain things especially employment enabling them to progress in life I can not sustain anything its tormenting to have this disorder it’s invisible to people so they don’t take it seriously you’d be envious too if u had it
Thank you dr. Grande. For my entire life I was loking for some fix. And what ever I have tried it helped in a mounth or two. That would be religion, spiritualty, educations on mental health, all kinds of different psycho therapy all possible activites ect. Borderline personality opened my eyes for me to see the truth of how "normal" people are limited by they beliefs system but that's exactly what gives them a secured sense of who they are. That's how they live normal lives. Their brains subconsciously works perfect everything is strong wired maybe they're wrong about something but they don't give a sh*t That's how self confidence works. When In borderlines we have so unstable patterns that you literally don't know how to respond to life challenges. Today if you watched a Marvel movie you'll probably be a superhero that day and take all the responsibilities save the world. But tomorrow you get resseted again and who knows what you're going to think and feel about yourself. Most of my time is just severe anxiety, social anxiety because I really don't have idea who am I and what are my interests and beliefs. I just pray how I'll menage and survive my emotions.
Self-hate is the core of borderline.
I do believe self hate is a key factor, especially when suicidal. However, they say depression is anger turned inward. I think that the hate flips back and forth between hating others and hating self. I guess that when you come down to it, is the foundation of splitting.
no its a symptom a symptom i have
@@pauladuncanadams1750 "I hate you don't leave me" I have that book somewhere in this room I read it years ago, I wonder if its even still valid its been so long
Dr. Grande i am amazed. I think you hit the nail. At the core of BFD-is the identity and the self-disassociation. I suffer from BPD. Three criteria didn't make sense to me but now it does. The impulsivity i could not match to myself. But when you say- Seeking Sensations- bingo- it matches. Po.rn and Gambling gave me these sensations. Also disassociation also did not make any sense but now it does with the awareness of the self and the public identity. Anger i did not relate to because i believe my intellectual cognitive nature helps me control my anger/emotions. Although i know colleagues to explode in anger from zero to 100 in a few seconds. At the core- i would say the feeling of emptiness is prime for me. I knew that since i was 5 years old.
I think at the core of BPD is an emotional turmoil - inaccurate and constantly changing emotions. It's like walking through the forest with malfunctioning compass - you either don't see the needle (feelings of emptiness) or the needle is rotating. It reminds me the scene from the movie Pirates of Caribbean :). The identity disturbance is the manifestation of this symptom (causal relationship).
@Dr. Grande: What is the best strategy, when a person with BPD struggles with identity disturbance?
See Dr. Daniel Foxe’s you tube videos on this subject.
Dr Grande another great video. You explain all your videos in such a way everyone understands. Even the most profound subjects. I am a borderline. For me, the core is " Who am I? " I feel differently all the time. I am one person with you, another person with them, another person with someone else. It's like having tons of hats on or getting ready to act on stage or in a movie I can't explain it well. I also bounce off from the person I am with at that time. Example= With Jane having coffee then clothes shopping I am fun, little-girlish like taking it all in with excitement. Jane likes to be around me, however, she has never seen the other sides to me. I'm just different and always have been and it never stops. It's like I have been searching and searching for me all my life and I never find her/me. Now I am so ranging pissed off I gotta go.
It makes a lot of sense the way you laid it out that Identity:Self disturbance factor would be the foundation for the outward observable symptoms, so therapy aimed at exploring the pt's sense of identity vs self, dissociation, etc., could help cut through a lot of peripheral baggage in each session and help make treatment more expedient and effective by getting literally to core of the matter. This absolutely sounds worthy of exploration, and if I were someone seeking treatment, I think I would find it more engaging to focus on my self more than on the negative symptoms stemming from that splintered sense of self. It would be like healing the infection beneath the wound rather than applying bandages & salves to it.
I would be curious to learn more about the relationship between self vs identity, how to recognize dysfunction; how, when, & where it develops; and how to achieve a more synchronized, congruent relationship betw inner self and identity do when disturbances exist between them.
Also doesn't the sense of self and identity constantly change as time goes on? So is it possible that maybe more congruent life experiences going forward could help facilitate healing these rifts?
As a healing bpd I can tell you every time I find myself acting the way I actually AM and not what I think I am or should be, is tremendously rewarding. So, in answer to your question, yes, this kind of approach is allowing me to change and develop slowly but surely to a more coherent way of being.
Bpd is a genetic brain disorder that is the mirror opposite of psychopathy it’s a physical brain variant you cannot change it through therapy you cannot talk a dog out of being a dog through therapy you can’t talk a psychopath into feeling emotions they have never felt through therapy you cannot talk a borderline into controlling emotions when they don’t have the tools a neurotypical has to do so that is the core of bpd to try to do so only prolongs the agony of hope when the only thing you can really do is medicate mitigate and accept there is no healing you can’t change your physical brain wiring per say with talk
My borderline ex insisted on keeping the milk outside of the fridge in our summer weather - 40C or 100F. I realised that she had learnt this from her mother and her mother had learnt this behaviour from HER mother who came from Scotland where 75 years ago it was normal to keep milk on the kitchen bench during colder months. So BPD can be understood as clinging to legacy behaviours that are no longer adaptive. it is demanding that as ab adult, my childish behaviours are correct and demanding that the environment accommodate itself to me. This is also known as psychic equivalence and is a very primitive form of thinking. BPDs are psychotic and will demand that you enter their insane world and live according to their insane ideas. The only way to survive is to enter into a shared psychosis with them and praise them unceasingly. Any statement of truth such as "it's hot today" or "it's getting late" even statements like "I'm hungry" or "I'm feeling tired" will trigger them and invite an attack. So stay silent. What is at the core?? I would say lack of object constancy - leading to chronic instability of identity. Even the suggestion of going to the shop to buy a loaf of bread will trigger them. you have to be there for them all the time whilst at the same time not voicing an opinion or a statement of fact. OMG, it's a mad world living with a BPD.
So true! Anything I come up with is usually followed by a response of .... “No, I think you’ll find that ....”! Also the milk scenario - the “always done it that way” mentality, can’t possibly work otherwise, and if you give a reason why it won’t work or may be not a good idea and give a reasonable explanation then you are apparently criticising them/bringing them down! When you are really trying to help them. Goodness knows how my now estranged husband (filing for divorce) got through his school years!
I knew this guy who threw his banana peel into the street on a hot days (stinky, flies). He claimed he was recycling. It wasn't composting because he was throwing it into a city street, every day in Los Angeles.
I though he was being a smart ass, but then I realized he was nearly deranged in his belief about it.
I have bpd, and I have always felt like I was in some way different from my peers and always struggled to find a place I could "fit in". This is probably along the lines of the "fractured sense of self" criteria you mentioned. The core of bpd should include this in my humble opinion. Thank you for your work in this area. I'm 9 for 9 with these criteria unfortunately....Valerie
My wife is 9 for 9. We just learning this after 17.5 years together and 8 kids. I am worried she doesn’t love me bc she has been doing some crazy stuff to me.
Does you think my wife loves me?
Thanks
DT - I’m a mother of a 20yr old BPD daughter - it feels like she doesn’t love me, I feel abused and I have healthy boundaries, but I KNOW she NEEDS my love - the way only a mother can love - so in that sense she desperately loves me deep down. Your wife desperately needs your love - this may be the strongest way she can love you. But unless you have no needs and like abuse, you should change things and take care of yourself/your life. We only get one life here. I can’t change the fact that my daughter doesn’t act like a daughter or show love like other daughters and I won’t abandon her, but I will have to distance myself as self-preservation. I hope your children are your biggest consideration as they’re surely shaped by the experience too.
As far as I can tell by my own experience, I think it is the lack of structure and sense safety in my childhood that laid the groundwork for my unstable sense of self, incongruent identity, affective instability and so forth. It stems from confusion and fear, for me at least.
As someone growing up with childhood trauma and neglect, I have been diagnosed with BPD. I agree with your assessment. I can briefly succeed at many things, but no stable sense of self describes me perfectly. I take refugee it not being too connected, even to myself. Thank you.
I think I agree this could be the core of it. In all of the criteria in the DSM, you can link back all 9 to never being able to count on yourself or soothe yourself. Because the fear there could be “what self?” Any sort of relief we achieve can only come about by outside validation, because of this unreliable person we feel we are (among other things). Thanks for the video
My core for BPD is SHAME. This causes the identity disturbance, the emotional outbursts, the unstable relationships, the RAGE that feels so all-pervasive--just everything. Your video on BPD guilt and shame was helpful to me on getting to the bottom of things, but even knowing that my core is SHAME, what can I do about it? I've been in therapy for 14 years consistently, without resolving this issue.
I agree with you that the fragmented sense of self is at the core. Also central seems to be emptiness, but I think the fragmented sense of self comes first.
When it comes down to it, aren't they the same thing? You feel empty inside because you are not filled with self.
Thank you Dr. Grande. I was hurt by a vulnerable narcissist. I searched for answers and while there is some good information out there on mental health issues a lot of it is very technical. Most of it is brief and difficult to translate into actual life experience. Your channel has helped segue how the real world is defined by the clinical diagnosis. Thank you and please continue the valuable content you provide to the layperson.
I think the core is getting love from people around you and having self love. You can be who you want to be having both of those.
I have a constant feeling in my chest. A hollowness. It feels almost like anxiety but it isn’t, although it certainly contribute to it. It might be rage. I’m not sure but the only world I can use to describe it is chaos. I have the deepest painful urge to simply destroy. My body, my relationships, my life, everything. I want to run away before they can run away from me. I have only recently learned that this is not a normal feeling. A falling-out with a friend shouldn’t make someone so upset that they aren’t sure what they might do. A wrong glance shouldn’t be a reason to hurt yourself.
Dr Grande, Thank you so much for putting into perspective the co-occurrence of DID and BPD. I do so appreciate your research.
You are spot on about Borderline Personality disorder. I always knew that I had PTSD and depression and while younger was able to manage and function although I always knew there was something unique to me going on. It was because of listening to these online vids of your diagnosis that I realize that like my mother , I have it. It is not the same as the way she had it and I don’t know if it’s just that it was learned from her behaviors or if I genetics . I do know that it is exciting because I realize that this understanding is the missing piece to my own recovery and happiness!
im not suicidal but i truly cannot see how i can keep on living like this
From spending 2 years with a BPD and meticulously studying this area I've concluded the following:
As an infant the person was not nurtured or tended too when they cried out or needed something. This created the child's reference point for people and the world. Not being worthy of love and the inability as a child to develop this understanding of true care nurturing and real love.
This empty and horrific feeling carries into adolescence and adulthood. When in a relationship with a borderline, when you are intimate and loving towards them, which creates healthy vulnerability within them. It's okay for a while but because they are not wired or use to genuine love, it then activates a defence within them that because of their parents lack of real nurturing, they find it impossible to believe it is real and then fear (as they are used to/programmed to think) the fear that they will soon be abandoned like they were and then this vulnerability > inability to receive, trust or understand real love > triggers fear of abandonment > which leads to paranoia of being abandoned > which leads to sabotaging the relationship as a form of protection.
Supporting the individual to be okay with vulnerability or through professional therapy, DBT, and so on is the way forward. Focusing on the above formula and breaking it down piece by piece. Positive affirmations, nature, mindfulness and meditation can also support the healing process. Also healing the inner child and providing themselves with the love they never received in guided process, as a child and receiving the love from the toxic parent they always yearned for can help to bridge the gap that was never built due to the lack of nurturing ie: imagine being little again and the parent hugging you from behind and telling you how special, loved and cherished they are and things of that nature can help to wire this receive and give love part of the brain, simultaneously contributing to bridging gaps of arrested development emotionally and neurologically.
That was beautifully put ❤️ you sound like a very understanding person!
@@victoriaross3263 thank you Victoria, have a great day 🌞
I agree with your core answer. It seems that many people are focusing on the symptoms, but not on what causes those symptoms. After all, humans are logical creatures, there's always a reason for seemingly stupid behavior.
Thank you for not villianizing us and providing great insights... they really do help some of us become more self aware and improve our behaviors the best we can. I’ve been working on myself for years and while everything else has improved, i still feel the pang of “identity disturbance”. I stay very proactive in my life and now have learned to enjoy giving care and love without the expectation to receive back... but it took a very long time to get to that point... I’m also better at setting boundaries for myself on how much to give.
Wow! I simply love this! Thank you so much for the easy breakdown. I have BPD and totally agree that this identity disturbance is my core issue. Thank you for helping me understand myself!😊
your channel has such educational and scientific value,you really reallllyyyy help me with my psychology seminars,i cannot thank you enough!
I have bpd and you score 100 percent on this analysis. That was a perfect breakdown on what I go through.
Thank you for this. I'm over 60 and have a cluster-B mixed PD that's mellowed after tons of therapy, but you are so right, I can't get this down. All my life I've surprised people once they got to know me, including many mental health providers, because I "don't seem like someone who would" do or be or say this or that. "Integration" was a thing we worked on in therapy for a long time back in the 90's. But it's always there, and pronounced. Always looking for other women to admire, to know how to be. Copy their style and live according to what (and what I imagine) their values are. I'm over that now but if I start conforming to what a loved one needs from me there is no "off" switch so I can be quite preemptive about boundaries and confrontational when I feel my hard-fought sense of self is threatened. It doesn't take much.
Flawedplan Lifecouch, how did u wrk on "integration"? I mean wat was the approach---I can't pict this but it makes sense especially if the core of BPD 'IS' identity incoherence.
@@juliebraden A good way to see integration is that your thoughts feelings and actions fit together. So you're hungry, you think about a sandwich, you make a sandwich and eat it. As for the approach? Three sessions a week of psychodynamic (neo-Freudian, not CBT!) therapy with "experiential" "humanistic" "gestalt" ""third wave" feminist" psychologists. This was the fad in psychology 30 years ago, and I was lucky to ride that wave. They lit incense while doing therapy, you yelled at empty chairs, and they'd bring in a massage therapist, to work out the blocked energy. And all on a sliding fee scale. Anyway, I digress. I think your best bet today is Marsha Linehan's DBT theory, but that's hardcore behaviorism no matter how much lipstick they put on that pig. I know many people swear by DBT and I must believe in whatever helps, but I don't like being pushed around like that. A more humanistic behaviorism can be found in ACT, Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, which adds mindfulness to the mix. A third approach, that has had good outcomes with BPD folk is SCHEMA THERAPY, and if I were looking for a treater today, this is what I would pursue if I could find one.
@@flawedplan good info, I'm surprised to hear u thought of DBT as being pushed around?
@@juliebraden Anyone who prefers a psychoanalytic approach is going to feel pushed around by a technique-heavy method, no matter how great they are, and hers are terrific.
Yes, schema is recommended for NPD but I think it if would be good for BPD too. I was considering suggesting Gestalt also.
I love that this channel is so reliable and you have no clickbait titles for videos. Bless you for this!
Lets create an alternative youtube culture than the current one (wich Will persist) one where the videodescriptions are false on purpose and you click them so you can point this out.
OR start having clickbaitvideotitles and get more views and more people learn about bod for instance instead of how to shop!
Living with someone who has this disorder is very painful, disruptive and stressful on a family. My daughter has this condition, and we suffer as a family for it....... she's cruel at times, insensitive, and displays hatred for us. I know she suffers too, but she projects her misery on us and it's really tough to manage as loving, caring parents. thank you for providing this educational content. parent's need support and information on how to best manage this difficult relationship.
For me this rings so deeply accurate. A lack of a core sense of self & emptiness, combined with a very sensitive child with RSD
I think it's the utter lack of self that is more important than identity-disturbance when figuring out the core of BPD. The lack of self enables the BPD to "fill" the void they feel with other people's personalities, other people's bodies, and other people's validation. Identity disturbance is the symptom of a lack of self.
I tend to agree. I've watched my sister struggle with this and I totally see unclear identity as a result of abuse at it's core.
You probably caused it. Great job a hole
its great that dr grande is willing to work with borderlines. the sadness of an alcoholic borderline is beyond description. the prisons are more full of them than sociopaths
Your videos are so insightful & helpful for those of us who have dealt with a person with this disorder. Thank you for the factual, thoughtful and concise explanations.
I'm male aged 48 and have acute BPD. Don't really know what to say but hey. Flare ups for me are the thing. When someone tries to control me or doesn't like my opinion or knowledge I can rage. Within hours or so, I will feel huge feelings of possible abandonment and fear of rejection. So, for me, the core is self worth. Great video @Dr. Todd Grande and very informative.
UK PI Could there be narcissism going on? It seems men have that problem. I don’t mean to be rude.
@@christar9527 you don't want to let gender bias influence your opinion.
I think too many BPD men are undiagnosed/wrongly diagnosed which can be devastating.
Based on my own experience, I would definitely agree that this identity disturbance factor comes first, then you go into being dissociative and partioning. Anger is a huge factor for some but that’s a defense as a result from the identity disturbance that kicks you into blocking and becoming dissociative. IMO
Thanks for your kind insightful videos.
Healing is a good thing 😊
Dr Grande your other videos I’ve viewed have given me much clarity on the 20yr relationship with my daughter, but you have my utmost respect and gratitude with this one.
Everything you’ve parceled out on the other theories of what is essential or main component of BPD checks out 100% with everything I’ve lived through with my daughter. It makes sense to me also that fear of abandonment has as its core - the desperate need to protect her identity. Then her ideal childhood, the self, is better matched to the identity, to receive copious amounts of love and admiration.
I can’t even begin to tell you how this helps my understanding of my daughter’s pain and how to improve my interactions with her.
Thank you.
Fascinating topic- this concept of identity/self disturbance is very interesting.
Thank you Dr. Grande!❤️
Thank you, again, for your great videos! The outward identity and the inner self don’t work well together. That’s a really interesting way to put it and an interesting situation to consider. I don’t think I’m in a position to comment on the core of Borderline, but I am intrigued to consider these ideas nonetheless.
Aside from the suicidal behavior, BPD really mirrors what I know of the vulnerable narcissist. (I noticed you mentioned DID as well, and that’s yet another kind of grey area, from my perspective.) I’m curious, is it common for individuals to be considered to have a dual diagnosis of NPD AND BPD or are they still thought to be quite separate, but perhaps melding into and borrowing from other Cluster B disorders? There’s so much overlap that I continue to find myself confused about the distinctions.
You are quite welcome!
Another fascinating and insightful video. Looking at my abuser through this info, now I do see one particular aspect that permeated the relationship--which is at his core. Tracing that back to his childhood, I can see how it shaped his personality. It's the abandonment and anger. He was a military brat left alone with his narcissistic mother for weeks and months at a time. In addition, each time he arrived at a new school, he had to fight the school bully on the first day. A lot of anger and abandonment issues as one can imagine.
In my experience with a borderline partner... you are spot on in your breakdown of the article and assessment of BPD Dr Grande!
Dr. Grande, I really appreciate the time and efforts in making your videos to educate us who are either suffering with mental health issues or trying to maintain relations with others who are afflicted. You are the most interesting and informative RUclips video creator that I've ever seen and have helped me so much!! Awesome work!!!
I think education and learning how to think are great remedies for BPD. That's why DBT can be helpful. My research showed that the short-term nature of it and lack of follow up is problematic.
Wonderful video!! I have been binge watching your videos lately and this one has really spoken to me. I feel like this finding maybe right, all my other BPD symptoms could be a result of the emptyiness and Identity/self split I have.
Dr. Grande is here on point 100%. Based on my own experience with BPD wife, I too think that identity disassociation is the leading cause of BPD. My wife has fixed rage and even impulsivity - compared what it used to be. It's far from good, but less frequent and manageable. However, she's absolutely unable to fix identity crisis and it was the major cause of her suffering for years. She still mirrors me or people she likes, literally mimicking me, my thoughts and behaviour, both good and bad. I find it harder and harder to cope, because ultimately, her search for identity seems futile and appears to be losing her own kindness in the process that I always loved.
So it made me cry when you described the difference between identity and self and the fact that despite treatment and improvement with other key criterion of this disorder that one persists and it strikes me as correct. I do think it's a dissociation in and of itself and no other dissociations are required. I went through an amazing yearlong program involving daily groups for CPT and DBT after a bout with completely debilitating PTSD where they were also attempting to rule out BPD. I'm happy to say that a lot of the other debilitating and troubling thoughts and behaviors I was suffering with have been changed, that inexplicably I still ... suffer. I think that I don't belong and perhaps cognitive dissonance is too much for me to counter that ultimate current that despite working and "doing things others find enviable" (like travel) I'm still depressed and I still wish I would die. It truly is the emotional suffering that I'm prone to at any setback which when I try to apply CPT or DBT skills it just doesn't alter that I don't think I was equipped to BE here.
Man, Dr. Grande you seem to know your stuff! I find your analysis and deconstruction of the components of BPD very precise and encompassing. My experience with and observations of an ex-girlfriend (10+years, undiagnosed BPD) fit very well within that paradigm.Thank you!
Until a few days ago, I used to believe the “I’m not alive”/“this is not my body”/“everything’s artificial”-feeling (dissociation) was a universal human experience, like deja vu - except no one talked about it... But I also used to believe vivid nightmares of violence, torture and murder were “normal nightmares”, and that everyone “lost their mind/control over their body” every now and again while others were just really good af hiding or suppressing it.
Why,is it not that way for everyone? I'm not borderline ( not that I am aware of) and I believe exactly that 😅
I cannot tell you how much I appreciate your hard work Dr.
I have encountered a lot of the homeless people in my town (in South Ga). I’ve spent a good bit of time with them thru the years.
Many of them are afflicted with the disorders and psychopathy you talk about.
I believe this is spot on. The unstable sense of self is really a fractured sense of self/identity. It gives rise to any combination of the other symptoms of the disorder as they're all additional coping mechanisms to avoid facing the pain of their reality. They're also typically repetition compulsions, probably reliving the way their caregivers treated them in past-- in the present moment.
A stable and unimpeded sense of self allows us to take responsibility, learn, and avoid too much impulsive behavior. We can integrate experiences throughout life because there's a "container" for those to be applied to, and there are better emotional regulation skills preserved probably as a result of having a core self/identity.
BPD sufferers probably had that sense of self murdered by caregivers or overall environment as children. Maybe they denied it themselves as a result of neglect. Until they are able to reach back into that wound and begin to develop this particular area, they're doing to deal with the same emptiness that's plagued them their entire lives. They'll be prone to relapsing right back into all of the behaviors that manifest as a result of this.
I´ve given more thought to your search for the "core" of BPD. and I´d now say: UNCLEAR (unstable) CONCEPT OF SELF. I´d say that with that as a base you can arrive (without too much contorsion) at the 9 defining characteristics of Borderline.
It seems that once one separates, with as much layman's discernment as possible from resourceing credentialed sources list of traits, that a disordered persons self built up persona is really at the core of a relationship need. A prop, a strut, a primary flying monkey, a source of unquestioning requital. Such is the need to always have a line of overlapping succesion with zero object constancy. Interuption in that requirement, cetainley the lessoning of availability due to age or local reputation is a form of bpd decompensation, to be avoided at all cost. One thing guaranteed in all these bpd / npd relationships is the fact that an expiration date is known by the repetative party while the line of wishful thinkers delude themselves till the moment they can no longer. They must leave. They must recover and reexamine where self care went horribly wrong.
Thank you Dr. Grande for keeping these informative vlogs comprehendable by layman yet pushing the boundaries of learning something new not a part of our daily expertise.
You are quite welcome!
What? The two don’t equate. Please simplify your comment.
I am 54 years old. I have lived most of my life with BPD, I just didn't know what it was called. I have no official diagnosis, but I have struggled my years as functional to semi functional addict.
I wasn't abused, abandoned, or neglected. Except emotionally. There were some traumatic occurrences in my childhood. I suffered from severe stress over these couple things that happened and it became a internal struggle that I couldn't handle and I set myself into pretending that they never happened. I held a ton of guilt that was not my own.
When I was 7 and my brother was 3, he was running to tell on me, because we had fighting over rocks we collected. No one came to holler at me, I found my brother had tripped hit his head and unconsciously sank to the bottom of our swimming pool. I got my parents and watched them give him CPR for a long time ( because I grew up in the mountains, about 30 miles from phones, stores, paved roads). I felt guilt for his death that I couldn't speak to my parents about. We stopped functioning as a family. Somewhere in here I was molested by a nearly adult person not related to me, who came to spend time in the mountains because he was getting in trouble in the city life. I could not talk to my parents about this either, because my parents were kind of critical, and unbelieving in counseling. So, I knew that at some point I'd have a mental breakdown.... Which I did. But mostly, I tried to live normally until the symptoms of the BPD finally overwhelmed me beyond anything I could hide. I was always looking for the answer of what was wrong with me, because I always felt that no one really was affected by things like I was. That I was different in some way than others. That's it 8n a nutshell. Now it feels weird to like make some announcement about having BPD to my family because it would be nice if they had some understanding.
Super helpful in my role as a Psychiatric RN Dr Grande! Managing BPD patients in the Hospital setting is very challenging. That's why I spend a lot of time studying this Disorder. Your explanations/discussions are really appreciated. Thanks.
Orange is the new Grande
My comment is popular yeye!
Haha! 😂😊
Lol..he looks good in orange 🍊 yes, and somehow more relaxed in this video. 👍🏻
@@rightnow5839 well there's not much to do in jail but stay in your cell and sleep, so yeah relaxed
This is the color of University if Texas football team. It's a status symbol to own UT polo shirts in this color. It's more like a burnt orange but this looks very close.
How does paranoia play out in BPD? I have only experience of one person. Her fear that people were going to dislike her or mistreat her was realistic. She was incapable of insight into how her own behaviour, like temper tantrums, provoked negative reactions from others but she knew that others would not treat her well.
Yes, most (all) of the time I feel like a floating empty shell. I have no sense of self or my identity (role amongst people/ society), or it changes/ varies so often as from even hour to hour- hope that makes some sense. Thank you so much for all your videos, Dr. Grande, they are soothing because to me they give a feeling of understanding and non-judgement.
As always: Extremely well presented and clear educational content. Very useful. Thanks!
Impulsivity x identity fragmentation.
Also explains dissociative aspects.
This was very interesting and informative. Thank you.
I can only speak for myself but I believe the fear of abandonment is at the core of everything I think and feel. There have been times in my life where identity and sense of self were very similar. Even feeling somewhat whole at these times my behavior was always based on fear of abandonment. I'm having an incongruity of identity and self the last 4 years but the abandonment issue never changes. jmo
Fearless Kitten I think it’s the fear of abandonment too. Its true of me.
Theres a great video out there called "Back from the edge" with Marsha Linehan that also does a wonderful job explaining what it feels like to be someone with bpd. I have a lot of respect for Ms. Linehan and she is very easy to listen to, just like Dr. Grande.
This is so insightful. I identify with many of the traits of BPD but not so much with the fear of abandonment in the classical sense-I tend to cut ties with people rather than cling to them. This might be a coping mechanism so as to not be ‘dumped first’ but mainly I feel like my personality and opinions can shift so quickly that the people I thought I liked in a certain mind set don’t ‘match’ with my new personality. It sounds weird I know and a lot of it might have just been growing up and processing some family issues in childhood (although I did experience some minor trauma it seems very mild and I think I messed a lot of my life up all by myself haha). I take Lamictal and was tentatively diagnosed with Bipolar II. The medication has helped a lot but I can’t help but noticing that the core problem seems to be me. I feel so raw and vulnerable all the time... I described it once as feeling like I had no emotional ‘skin’ and was just in pain and extremely sensitive to everything.
Thank you for speaking about this without judgment. I’m hoping to get insight so I can be better, stop hurting people around me, and stop falling apart all the time.