We all know what prey drive drive is but this video is the best way I’ve heard/seen to describe what training IN prey drive IS! The rabbit, the cat with a mouse, the human neck…describing that it’s a living, breathing “prey” that puts them in a different frame of mind is a big “ah ha” moment. Also the difference between the dog working for himself (the cookie or toy) and working for his handler was another lightbulb moment.
As a breeder & trainer of many, many personal protection, family protection, property protection, business protection, warehouse protection & police department K-9 dogs for over 50 years, one thing that I have seen & strongly disagree with is when the 'DECOY' comes to a complete STAND STILL when the 'out' command is given. This is NOT REAL LIFE! When a person has a very large, very powerful dog biting on their arm, leg, where ever, it does not matter & 9 times out of 10 that person is absolutely not going to stop moving, at all! Which the dog keys in on then causing the dog to respond in 'prey drive' which will cause the dog to continue to bite, disregarding the handler's 'out' command! I have ALWAYS trained ALL of my dogs with my 'DECOYS' continuing to move even fighting back so that once the 'out' command is given by the handler, the dog instantly 'outs' & returns to the handler. This is something that starts with the dog's obedience training & the unquestionably solid foundation that I am the 'be all & end all' to the dog's understanding! THEY WORK FOR ME!! WITHOUT QUESTION, THEY DO WHAT THEY ARE COMMANDED TO DO! AT ALL TIMES!! This does not involve any form of abuse or fear or intimidation of the dogs! Just absolute obedience training for the unshakable foundation to start with! The obedience foundation must be 100% perfect in all conditions & circumstances BEFORE BITE WORK! This combined with a 'DECOY' who continues to move, even to fight back, when the 'out' command is given by the handler, that dog instantly 'outs' & returns to the handler! WITHOUT FAIL!!!! There is NEVER a need to try to pull the dog off, use a break stick, pry the dog's mouth open, choke the dog out or any of the other pure failures I have seen with dogs & handlers who don't have that rock solid obedience fountaion established BEFORE the bite training begins!
Great insight but I have a question.. many people I know will purposely not focus on obedience first because they want the dogs to retain their dirty side so to speak. Wouldn't this be preferable for military dogs especially?
I saw this a long time ago. I am only two minutes into the show and I will say that 1) there was NO need whatsoever for the dog to be deployed, 2) the cops actually push the trash can over, which leads to the dog having a limited area to bite the guy, and unsurprisingly leads to a bite in the face and head area. The dog found the guy. Get him back to the handler, push the trash can over like the did in the video and then arrest the guy. Keep the dog near by in case he guy gets away.. These cops use their dogs in the worst of ways. I've seen them send them on a naked guy literally carrying a machete on a road with no one around. Guess what happened to the dog? These cops that stuff dogs through broken car windows do the exact same thing- open up the great possibility for a bite to the face or neck. Confined space plus dog= bad situation. Finally, how would you like it if your grandmother was putting the trash out when this off lead dog is searching for human odor?
If I remember right, it was the danger of the guy could probably had a knife - that's according to German police the worst case - you shoot and risk the death of the guy, or you don't shoot and risk the life of innocent people - or you send the dog.. Most K9 Officers with experience say that sending the dog saves lifes And yes, there can happen horrible mistakes But also please count the lifes saved, because a dog was sent How to avoid mistakes like that from a dog trainers perspective is the talking point, not accusing
@@Klugschieterin The could have had a knife? So lets send the dog to most likely be stabbed, or lets tip the trash can over first and see what he has? There were multiple cops there all armed. If the guy did have a knife, or a gun, I'm sure he would have been neutralized by the police. The dog did his job and found the guy. The rest the police should have done on their own. This savings lives argument is complete rubbish most of the time. Finally, if the cops did not tip the trash can over and send the dog in a confined area none of this would have happened regardless of the dog's training. 'Dog off lead in a residential area searching is mistake number one. After finding the guy the dog is sent into a confided area because the cops were scared the guy may have a weapon, mistake two.
As to the above don’t send a dog on an armed suspect unless he is charging you. You get a dead dog and may still have to shoot the guy. As to saving the guy with a knife from shooting. Who cares he made that decision why lose your dog. As for the trashcan scenario above biggest issue is a timely out.
@@k-9mantrailing324 im not a police officer, but confident that all of them doing their best to protect citizens. And they are humans, they are making mistakes, the dog is an animal, never makes mistakes, just following the instincts. Even when you know your dog the best, you can mistake a situation during action and making decisions. Im not a K9 officer, because i never could send a dog in a dangerous situation, will always protect my dog and therfore i have not the skill to be a K9 officer Outside on the streets is a war - so it needs kind of military mindset...so the discussion is how to prevent mistakes, not to blame in general When it's not sure, if a suspect is armed and the suspect doesn't surrender it's always the best choice to send a dog, because it's neither deadly for the suspect, nor for the officers. Even in the discussion about this specific case, the suspect survived and that's all what counts in the end 😉 And i am absolutely convinced, that each intervention with a K9 is analyzed in the aftermath in the unit to become better So in the end it's a question of trust you have or you don't have in the police
@@Klugschieterin Sorry, but I have to say that you sound very ignorant. Just because a suspect was not killed, doesn't mean the bite is Okay. Would you be Okay, if a K9 dog bite your face off. You wouldn't be killed, but your face wouldn't be the same however many plastic surgeries you would go through. There is a reason, training is there to teach dog to bite in certain body part instead letting dog to randomly choose. You're wrong. K9 dog is not a scout, to test the water when police officers ain't sure if the suspect is armed or not. Police officers should assume the suspect is armed, which means they shouldn't push the dog to the front line. In this situation, get the dog back, use a pole to lift the bin lid off. Command the suspect comply, hand up and stand up slowly. Why pushed the bin to fall, and send the dog?
fantastic description's and information of a dog's mind. A big, gigantic takeaway for me was your statement "mind in a different dimension" explains so so much......... thankyou much
@hans-alpinek9real should one be done before the other? I don't want to ruin anything in protection if teaching obedience first. If I get the package deal, will I get the step by step process in these videos? Thanks for your reply and patience.
Makes perfect sense. If you have one dog and you want to do sport. Will you recommend start the training out of drive first. Once the out of drive training has been established can you transition to sport exercises.
Thanks for watching. ALWAYS train in defense first. Grafting protection into sports you will have equipment orientation which will be there for the dogs life. That’s why I train protection first and if you want you can do sports.
Makes total sense. I have no access to decoys yet for training defense 😢 i can't be on the opposing end, opposite my rottweiler when he's defensive. I can train him in prey because its fun and games, sleeve, tugs etc.. you need decoys to challenge the dog.
@@jw-vx8im I already have a certain knowledge and insight. I understand how to train and bring it out in the dog. It's decoys or helpers I need, not DVDs. However they would be a good reference no doubt.
It's hard today to defend the opinion the dog has to work for the handler... My Dutchy Lady once took the chance to catch a pigeon walking fine and relaxed on a short leash - she picked the pigeon just walking without any sign of attention on another thing I even didn't see the pigeon well hidden under the leefes of a massive tree crown, which crushed before in a storm - and yes it was a different thing to demand "out"... Needed at least the eternity of a minute 😅 Could touch her, trying to open her mouth.... In the end was a deep view into her eyes.. to late for the pigeon of course, was killed instantly by the grip This difference is huge and gives me a huge respect for hunters and their way to train their dogs
Han’s can break things down for everyone to understand !!! 50 years of experience - can’t be beat !!! Sells the best Imported German Shepherds - smart , loyal and protective !!! We owned One for 12 wonderful years - that Han’s sold US !!!
2 stupid people will only achieve their level of competency which is low in this case. I worked as a security guard with my attack trained German shepherd and he did have bites and blood and still listened well. If you think you can’t call him off, you won’t be able to. There is a book about a German shepherd … Strongheart: Wonder Dog of the Silver Screen which excelled in intelligence and in the book it talks about how he jumped a random guy and stood on top of him while gesturing biting motions over his throat absolutely terrifying everyone. That dog knew something about that man that we don’t have the intuition to recognize. I saw this with my dog too. He on rare occasions, would pick out someone in a crowd and we were often amongst lots of people, but for whatever reason, a certain person, to him, was dangerous and worthy of highly focused intent! One of them did get sent to the hospital. In this video, lots was done wrong by the dog handler and with a guy in a garbage can, only the top part of his body was available so the dog couldn’t grab an arm so he grabbed an available soft spot.
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We all know what prey drive drive is but this video is the best way I’ve heard/seen to describe what training IN prey drive IS! The rabbit, the cat with a mouse, the human neck…describing that it’s a living, breathing “prey” that puts them in a different frame of mind is a big “ah ha” moment. Also the difference between the dog working for himself (the cookie or toy) and working for his handler was another lightbulb moment.
Bite work is such an interesting topic
I am having some excellent series on training protection and obedience. look at alpinek9real.com
As a breeder & trainer of many, many personal protection, family protection, property protection, business protection, warehouse protection & police department K-9 dogs for over 50 years, one thing that I have seen & strongly disagree with is when the 'DECOY' comes to a complete STAND STILL when the 'out' command is given.
This is NOT REAL LIFE! When a person has a very large, very powerful dog biting on their arm, leg, where ever, it does not matter & 9 times out of 10 that person is absolutely not going to stop moving, at all!
Which the dog keys in on then causing the dog to respond in 'prey drive' which will cause the dog to continue to bite, disregarding the handler's 'out' command!
I have ALWAYS trained ALL of my dogs with my 'DECOYS' continuing to move even fighting back so that once the 'out' command is given by the handler, the dog instantly 'outs' & returns to the handler.
This is something that starts with the dog's obedience training & the unquestionably solid foundation that I am the 'be all & end all' to the dog's understanding! THEY WORK FOR ME!! WITHOUT QUESTION, THEY DO WHAT THEY ARE COMMANDED TO DO! AT ALL TIMES!!
This does not involve any form of abuse or fear or intimidation of the dogs! Just absolute obedience training for the unshakable foundation to start with!
The obedience foundation must be 100% perfect in all conditions & circumstances BEFORE BITE WORK!
This combined with a 'DECOY' who continues to move, even to fight back, when the 'out' command is given by the handler, that dog instantly 'outs' & returns to the handler! WITHOUT FAIL!!!!
There is NEVER a need to try to pull the dog off, use a break stick, pry the dog's mouth open, choke the dog out or any of the other pure failures I have seen with dogs & handlers who don't have that rock solid obedience fountaion established BEFORE the bite training begins!
Great insight but I have a question.. many people I know will purposely not focus on obedience first because they want the dogs to retain their dirty side so to speak. Wouldn't this be preferable for military dogs especially?
I saw this a long time ago. I am only two minutes into the show and I will say that 1) there was NO need whatsoever for the dog to be deployed, 2) the cops actually push the trash can over, which leads to the dog having a limited area to bite the guy, and unsurprisingly leads to a bite in the face and head area.
The dog found the guy. Get him back to the handler, push the trash can over like the did in the video and then arrest the guy. Keep the dog near by in case he guy gets away.. These cops use their dogs in the worst of ways. I've seen them send them on a naked guy literally carrying a machete on a road with no one around. Guess what happened to the dog? These cops that stuff dogs through broken car windows do the exact same thing- open up the great possibility for a bite to the face or neck. Confined space plus dog= bad situation. Finally, how would you like it if your grandmother was putting the trash out when this off lead dog is searching for human odor?
If I remember right, it was the danger of the guy could probably had a knife - that's according to German police the worst case - you shoot and risk the death of the guy, or you don't shoot and risk the life of innocent people - or you send the dog..
Most K9 Officers with experience say that sending the dog saves lifes
And yes, there can happen horrible mistakes
But also please count the lifes saved, because a dog was sent
How to avoid mistakes like that from a dog trainers perspective is the talking point, not accusing
@@Klugschieterin The could have had a knife? So lets send the dog to most likely be stabbed, or lets tip the trash can over first and see what he has? There were multiple cops there all armed. If the guy did have a knife, or a gun, I'm sure he would have been neutralized by the police. The dog did his job and found the guy. The rest the police should have done on their own. This savings lives argument is complete rubbish most of the time. Finally, if the cops did not tip the trash can over and send the dog in a confined area none of this would have happened regardless of the dog's training.
'Dog off lead in a residential area searching is mistake number one. After finding the guy the dog is sent into a confided area because the cops were scared the guy may have a weapon, mistake two.
As to the above don’t send a dog on an armed suspect unless he is charging you. You get a dead dog and may still have to shoot the guy. As to saving the guy with a knife from shooting. Who cares he made that decision why lose your dog. As for the trashcan scenario above biggest issue is a timely out.
@@k-9mantrailing324 im not a police officer, but confident that all of them doing their best to protect citizens. And they are humans, they are making mistakes, the dog is an animal, never makes mistakes, just following the instincts. Even when you know your dog the best, you can mistake a situation during action and making decisions.
Im not a K9 officer, because i never could send a dog in a dangerous situation, will always protect my dog and therfore i have not the skill to be a K9 officer
Outside on the streets is a war - so it needs kind of military mindset...so the discussion is how to prevent mistakes, not to blame in general
When it's not sure, if a suspect is armed and the suspect doesn't surrender it's always the best choice to send a dog, because it's neither deadly for the suspect, nor for the officers.
Even in the discussion about this specific case, the suspect survived and that's all what counts in the end 😉
And i am absolutely convinced, that each intervention with a K9 is analyzed in the aftermath in the unit to become better
So in the end it's a question of trust you have or you don't have in the police
@@Klugschieterin Sorry, but I have to say that you sound very ignorant.
Just because a suspect was not killed, doesn't mean the bite is Okay. Would you be Okay, if a K9 dog bite your face off. You wouldn't be killed, but your face wouldn't be the same however many plastic surgeries you would go through. There is a reason, training is there to teach dog to bite in certain body part instead letting dog to randomly choose.
You're wrong. K9 dog is not a scout, to test the water when police officers ain't sure if the suspect is armed or not. Police officers should assume the suspect is armed, which means they shouldn't push the dog to the front line.
In this situation, get the dog back, use a pole to lift the bin lid off. Command the suspect comply, hand up and stand up slowly. Why pushed the bin to fall, and send the dog?
Dutch vs. Czech working dogs: different dogs with different drive profiles that require different training methods.
Indeed
fantastic description's and information of a dog's mind. A big, gigantic takeaway for me was your statement "mind in a different dimension" explains so so much......... thankyou much
Listen Hans and reread White Fang. Explained everything.
Great explanation on how to avoid it to start with.
Hans, Makes perfect sense. Thank you--
Thanks for listening
Do your videos explain how to teach obedience and protection at the same time?
They are separate videos
@hans-alpinek9real should one be done before the other? I don't want to ruin anything in protection if teaching obedience first. If I get the package deal, will I get the step by step process in these videos? Thanks for your reply and patience.
Makes perfect sense. If you have one dog and you want to do sport. Will you recommend start the training out of drive first. Once the out of drive training has been established can you transition to sport exercises.
Thanks for watching. ALWAYS train in defense first. Grafting protection into sports you will have equipment orientation which will be there for the dogs life. That’s why I train protection first and if you want you can do sports.
Thank you for the term teaching the dog brain. Amen!! I've always said there are dogs that are dogs and there are dogs that have brains
You are so welcome!
What went wrong is being a criminal!
Makes total sense. I have no access to decoys yet for training defense 😢 i can't be on the opposing end, opposite my rottweiler when he's defensive. I can train him in prey because its fun and games, sleeve, tugs etc.. you need decoys to challenge the dog.
Buy the first of Hans protection videos that will give you insight
@@jw-vx8im I already have a certain knowledge and insight. I understand how to train and bring it out in the dog. It's decoys or helpers I need, not DVDs. However they would be a good reference no doubt.
It's hard today to defend the opinion the dog has to work for the handler...
My Dutchy Lady once took the chance to catch a pigeon walking fine and relaxed on a short leash - she picked the pigeon just walking without any sign of attention on another thing
I even didn't see the pigeon well hidden under the leefes of a massive tree crown, which crushed before in a storm - and yes it was a different thing to demand "out"...
Needed at least the eternity of a minute 😅
Could touch her, trying to open her mouth.... In the end was a deep view into her eyes.. to late for the pigeon of course, was killed instantly by the grip
This difference is huge and gives me a huge respect for hunters and their way to train their dogs
Han’s can break things down for everyone to understand !!! 50 years of experience - can’t be beat !!! Sells the best Imported German Shepherds - smart , loyal and protective !!! We owned One for 12 wonderful years - that Han’s sold US !!!
😊
HUMM i have two dogs both of which will let me take food out of their mouths ......i trained them from puppies to let me do this .......
2 stupid people will only achieve their level of competency which is low in this case. I worked as a security guard with my attack trained German shepherd and he did have bites and blood and still listened well. If you think you can’t call him off, you won’t be able to.
There is a book about a German shepherd … Strongheart: Wonder Dog of the Silver Screen
which excelled in intelligence and in the book it talks about how he jumped a random guy and stood on top of him while gesturing biting motions over his throat absolutely terrifying everyone. That dog knew something about that man that we don’t have the intuition to recognize. I saw this with my dog too. He on rare occasions, would pick out someone in a crowd and we were often amongst lots of people, but for whatever reason, a certain person, to him, was dangerous and worthy of highly focused intent! One of them did get sent to the hospital.
In this video, lots was done wrong by the dog handler and with a guy in a garbage can, only the top part of his body was available so the dog couldn’t grab an arm so he grabbed an available soft spot.
So Gabor, do you use a leash to train your dog. Why would you add something if you are going to phase it out.