Great video! There are a few things I would want to add. 11:23 you have 33kgs of water on the second layer. If you freeze water under 801kgs it will turn into debris and break the lock. There are charts around that say what mass turns into debris and what turns into a block because it's different for most useful liquid lock liquids. That's an edge case anyway and I'd argue if you are worrying about that, you probably need to make the liquid lock out of a different liquid most of the time. That being said it is worth thinking about adding more liquid than you need if it's possible for a dupe to move hot material across it. If a dupe drops a hot piece of obsidian in a low mass liquid lock it can flash to gas and ruin your day. Oil has more mass than petroleum but I now use mostly petroleum locks because I've had oil flashing to petroleum break some locks as it bubbles but the heat for petroleum to flash to sour gas is large enough that with enough mass, dropped hot debris won't instantly kill the lock. This warning also goes double for the upright liquid locks that can sometimes end up being just a few grams. I've seen dupes breathing out carbon dioxide be enough to push liquid if it's a small enough amount! Also don't discount single block liquid locks! For that wrong material smart battery example I'd recommend my favorite liquid lock. Just a single block on the wall and 1 drop of any higher boiling point liquid on top of that. You can then dig in 2 tiles into the steam room and sealing it up is as easy as just rebuilding the 2 blocks from the wall. It's more dangerous for sure with just 1 mop-able low mass liquid holding the steam back but for quick repairs it's fast and effective. 2 high vertical liquid locks are easy to break and give your dupe soggy feet. If I'm being fancy I like to make 3 high liquid locks with crude oil, naphtha, petroleum with the crude oil having a solid block on both sides. The dupes will jump the gap meaning no soggy feet, they can't drop stuff while they are jumping so not hot debris in the oil, the solid blocks on both sides prevent spills from breaking the lock(unless a dupe pees on the one jumping blocks but the heavier naphtha shouldn't move if you use enough), double vertical locks take the same space as a single staircase lock, and those 3 materials mean it can be as cold as -40c or as hot as 400c. I have no idea why I don't see anyone using them. I use bottle emptiers to make liquid locks over breaking pipes because you don't have to have a pipe all the way to where you want to lock and when enough liquid is in place you uncheck the material on the emptier to stop it. You said it's messier but it's the opposite. If you watch it closely you don't have to mop anything to make a lock. With the introduction of moving and emptying liquids I expect people to find even better less messy ways of making locks. (Maybe just drop some bottles of the right amount of liquid in a 3 high hole, empty them, and deconstruct the walls of the hole?) I also like passive cooling steam turbines a lot in the early game. If you aren't making enough power to keep it up all the time you can deadlock your active cooling loop which can be a nightmare to recover from. If your turbine is too hot to cool the steam and the aquatuner is too hot to run then you aren't getting away from that without some burnt dupes. I would highly recommend passive cooling early game if you are at all worried about not having enough power to keep the system running(which is the start of every one of my poorly run bases.) You can make it work for any heat load if you throw more water mass, and then turbines at it too. Just make sure to limit the steam room temp below 135c so it stays cool enough to cool itself. Enough water mass and turbines also make it way more power positive than if you have to use the aquatuner to cool itself since you can never recover all the power going into the aquatuners. About the single bridge bypass in the cooling loop, it works great if the loop is filled properly or you have a liquid reservoir on the loop to keep it from being overfilled. If it gets overfilled it can cause the aquatuner to get jammed and get stuck in a state where it stops and starts repeatedly as it gets jammed every other liquid packet. If you use a double bridge bypass it works like the liquid reservoir where it keeps extra space for a liquid so you can't overfill it. Underfilling the loop also works. Just be careful with the double bypass though because that extra pipe segment can have the liquid sit in it for a long time and if in a place that's too hot or cold that can break your pipe. That's where I put my first pieces of ceramic pipe before I can make enough for full loops. Still I started using double bridge bypasses when perfectly filled loops would break down on game load in late game bases and that shouldn't be an issue in most scenarios. Another issue I've had with large bases is the liquid temp sensors connected to the aquatuners. On game load I've had a packet of already cool water get to the aquatuner before it was turned off causing cold damage. If you've ever gotten mysterious cold damage on the exit of the aquatuner that might be the case. For that buggy game reason I have my polluted water aquatuners set to +10c which is fine for almost everything that isn't for sleet wheat and could get through 2 below temp cycles before causing damage. Maybe this only happens on heavy 1000+ cycle bases but it annoys me and figured it might be worth mentioning. I swear I didn't mean to write this much. Most of the caveats I mention are edge cases you don't need to worry about when starting out which is who this video is for. I just find it exciting and thought I'd share what works in my chaotic playstyle. Thank you for making this as it is perfect at demystifying one of the biggest hurdles for new players.
Holy cow, what a detailed comment highlighting literally all the edge cases :) Yes, the 33kg on the second layer is a mistake on my end. Everything else though, even though you are 100% right, couldn't make it into a beginners video because it would make the video wayyyy too long and may overwhelm a new player. I really appreciate you taking the time to write all this out. Maybe I will make a "Advanced" video as a follow up to this one to cover those cases... but then of course with a huge shoutout for you! Thank you :)
16:19 Atleast mention that you need to tilt the auto sweeper to be touching the outside blob of crude oil that comes in contact with atmosphere so it never overheats,if people take the example for literally what it seems like,the autosweeper in a vacuum will eventually overheat since it has nowhere to disperse the heat to being in a vacuum,also most of the Liquid locks here could be replaced with a diagonal 1 blob design that doesnt even exchange heat,preferably using naphta which is much better for liquid locks than anything else aside visco gel since even if you had 20 KG of Naphta on a single tile,it wouldnt overflow to the side like other liquids would. If not replaced by the diagonal design,you could just have a blob to the left and right and rebuild 2 tiles in the middle,destroy them and get a vacuum for no heat transer without the need of 2 full side by side liquid locks like the examples,as long as the blobs on left and right are no more than 50g so they can just sweep in the middle to get rid of the excess before building the tiles and destroying them to make the vacuum.
14:00 replacing the tile touching the 2 liquids and putting a insulated tile 2 tiles below the tile you just replaced, forming another point on the bottom gives you a even less heat transfer, as it puts a vacuum between the 1 liquids. As it is now, the 2 liquids will transfer heat into the insulated tile, albeit very slowly, but over 500 - 1000 cycles, this can be a lot of heat, and you may end up with 60+c water in your lock, and will leak some heat out into the environment. For the cost of 1 metal tile, I use this every time now.
That can potentially be an issue, you are right. But, all the tiles insulated tiles would heat up a bit over that period of time, so there is really no way to contain it all unless you have a vacuum around the entire build which kind of defeats the purpose ;)
13:05, Unless you are dealing with insulite, there will be heat transfer over time, even to insulated tiles. So if you were doing something like this for a room that would remain hot potentially forever... as the room heats up and heats up the oil, it will SLOWLY heat up the tile touching the water. Putting a little vacuum gap between the locks (and potentially around the room) is a bit more labor intensive, and requires a decent amount of extra space, but it guarantees to NEVER fail. This is also nice because it perfectly contains your system surrounded by a vacuum, which makes long term heat calculations a lot more reasonable. . It is kinda breaking the game a little bit... essentially forming the room into it's own planet. But hey, it's a single player sandbox game, so it is what it is.
I've had water liquid locks turn to small ice pebbles instead of ice tiles before allowing gases to pass. Don't know why, but it did. Luckily some CO2 was in the way so the chlorine didn't sneak out but watch out.
I would have liked to see you freeze that liquid lock with the hydrogen. You say it would be a solid and still contain the gas. I think the bottom tile of the lock would freeze solid, but the other tiles have so little water in them that they would just be debris, instead of being a solid tile. There by causing your gas to escape.
something you didnt show but it's "easier" is using visco-gel as a liquid lock. reason i said "easier" is because it's a late game item. but it doesnt flow like a normal liquid it can stack 2 tiles high in just one tile without needing to use 2 different liquids. just look up visco gel liquid locks and see how easy it is to make.
I didn't show Visco Gel on purpose, because it is a endgame material. And obtaining it with Resin/Isoresin is one of the more difficult tasks in the game and really warrants it's own video at some time :)
I don´t know how I got her. I literally made a pause from a thermodynamics calculation to be presented with some interesing heat-pump design fron´m inside a game, presented by an german engineer XD 10/10 would like the heat capacity of the super coolant
Very true, they are usable. In a pinch for sure, if you have nothing else. But I highlighted Polluted Water because it should always be available, even if you just use the "output" from your dupes ;)
@@BierTieryou might have mentioned ethanol for cooling on the lower end of the spectrum. better freezing point than petroleum and a bit higher shc, worse evap point though.
Hi BierTier, I have a question. I made myself a petroleum boiler, not the conventional zig zag version but the "place all crude oil in one room and heat it" version. My question is, why does petroleum starts to form when the crude oil reach 350c in general? Shouldn't crude oil starts to transform into petroleum at 400c?? Oh, and I use magma to heat it.
Insulated pipes or walls do not insulate 100% unless they are made out of insulation(a very late-game material with 0 heat transfer). So putting insulated pipes into insulated walls actually combines the "insulation power". Any insulated material(other than insulation itself) will eventually heat up. The best early-mid game material to use is igneous rock, followed by ceramic in the later stages and insulation for very high heat applications in the very end game.
It's gonna happen eventually, but I don't have a timeline as of this moment. I'm currently in Germany on vacation with family and friends, when I'm back in the US I will try to come up with a gameplan :)
The liquid reservoir is technically not required, but can help in a couple different ways. For one, it has an increased thermal mass, so if something should go wrong(power outage), you will not be stuck with hot fluid in the pipe instantly. Another benefit is future expandability, since the required resource(polluted water for example) is already there. I implement one in all my tamers and heat deletion devices of any sort. Has come in handy many times :)
=HMMMPHHHH........THANKS FOR THE TIP ABOUT THESE PIPE DECONSTRUCT METHOD ABOUT LIQUID LOCK, HEHE BC OF I WAS USING A BOTTLE EMPTIER OF 33.8g WATER ....... BUT AT LEAST IT WAS MORE SUITABLE IF NOT WANT TO DO MESS =AND.....FOR BASIC BASE COOLING, ISNT JUST A WORT COOLING ENOUGH....LIKE HYDROGEN PIPES/CHAMBERS/FLOWER POTS
Thanks for the video, the explanations are clear and informative, If I may, can you make more advanced tutorials or perhaps something on a general abstract timeline on what to build. Sometimes or most of times I get lost in big projects, that is not necessarily bad but I tend to plan more for the future (eg big farms etc:)
Yeah, I did say game, didn’t I, haha 😂 I noticed while editing, but left it as is :) I will make more advanced tutorials, I do have more in the pipeline for sure :)
@@BierTier whiskey and chocolate. Translation errors ends here. Just listed some notable features of a somewhat notable RUclipsr in ONI community without telling his name. He also often comes back.
Great video! There are a few things I would want to add. 11:23 you have 33kgs of water on the second layer. If you freeze water under 801kgs it will turn into debris and break the lock. There are charts around that say what mass turns into debris and what turns into a block because it's different for most useful liquid lock liquids. That's an edge case anyway and I'd argue if you are worrying about that, you probably need to make the liquid lock out of a different liquid most of the time.
That being said it is worth thinking about adding more liquid than you need if it's possible for a dupe to move hot material across it. If a dupe drops a hot piece of obsidian in a low mass liquid lock it can flash to gas and ruin your day. Oil has more mass than petroleum but I now use mostly petroleum locks because I've had oil flashing to petroleum break some locks as it bubbles but the heat for petroleum to flash to sour gas is large enough that with enough mass, dropped hot debris won't instantly kill the lock. This warning also goes double for the upright liquid locks that can sometimes end up being just a few grams. I've seen dupes breathing out carbon dioxide be enough to push liquid if it's a small enough amount!
Also don't discount single block liquid locks! For that wrong material smart battery example I'd recommend my favorite liquid lock. Just a single block on the wall and 1 drop of any higher boiling point liquid on top of that. You can then dig in 2 tiles into the steam room and sealing it up is as easy as just rebuilding the 2 blocks from the wall. It's more dangerous for sure with just 1 mop-able low mass liquid holding the steam back but for quick repairs it's fast and effective.
2 high vertical liquid locks are easy to break and give your dupe soggy feet. If I'm being fancy I like to make 3 high liquid locks with crude oil, naphtha, petroleum with the crude oil having a solid block on both sides. The dupes will jump the gap meaning no soggy feet, they can't drop stuff while they are jumping so not hot debris in the oil, the solid blocks on both sides prevent spills from breaking the lock(unless a dupe pees on the one jumping blocks but the heavier naphtha shouldn't move if you use enough), double vertical locks take the same space as a single staircase lock, and those 3 materials mean it can be as cold as -40c or as hot as 400c. I have no idea why I don't see anyone using them.
I use bottle emptiers to make liquid locks over breaking pipes because you don't have to have a pipe all the way to where you want to lock and when enough liquid is in place you uncheck the material on the emptier to stop it. You said it's messier but it's the opposite. If you watch it closely you don't have to mop anything to make a lock. With the introduction of moving and emptying liquids I expect people to find even better less messy ways of making locks. (Maybe just drop some bottles of the right amount of liquid in a 3 high hole, empty them, and deconstruct the walls of the hole?)
I also like passive cooling steam turbines a lot in the early game. If you aren't making enough power to keep it up all the time you can deadlock your active cooling loop which can be a nightmare to recover from. If your turbine is too hot to cool the steam and the aquatuner is too hot to run then you aren't getting away from that without some burnt dupes. I would highly recommend passive cooling early game if you are at all worried about not having enough power to keep the system running(which is the start of every one of my poorly run bases.) You can make it work for any heat load if you throw more water mass, and then turbines at it too. Just make sure to limit the steam room temp below 135c so it stays cool enough to cool itself. Enough water mass and turbines also make it way more power positive than if you have to use the aquatuner to cool itself since you can never recover all the power going into the aquatuners.
About the single bridge bypass in the cooling loop, it works great if the loop is filled properly or you have a liquid reservoir on the loop to keep it from being overfilled. If it gets overfilled it can cause the aquatuner to get jammed and get stuck in a state where it stops and starts repeatedly as it gets jammed every other liquid packet. If you use a double bridge bypass it works like the liquid reservoir where it keeps extra space for a liquid so you can't overfill it. Underfilling the loop also works. Just be careful with the double bypass though because that extra pipe segment can have the liquid sit in it for a long time and if in a place that's too hot or cold that can break your pipe. That's where I put my first pieces of ceramic pipe before I can make enough for full loops. Still I started using double bridge bypasses when perfectly filled loops would break down on game load in late game bases and that shouldn't be an issue in most scenarios.
Another issue I've had with large bases is the liquid temp sensors connected to the aquatuners. On game load I've had a packet of already cool water get to the aquatuner before it was turned off causing cold damage. If you've ever gotten mysterious cold damage on the exit of the aquatuner that might be the case. For that buggy game reason I have my polluted water aquatuners set to +10c which is fine for almost everything that isn't for sleet wheat and could get through 2 below temp cycles before causing damage. Maybe this only happens on heavy 1000+ cycle bases but it annoys me and figured it might be worth mentioning.
I swear I didn't mean to write this much. Most of the caveats I mention are edge cases you don't need to worry about when starting out which is who this video is for. I just find it exciting and thought I'd share what works in my chaotic playstyle. Thank you for making this as it is perfect at demystifying one of the biggest hurdles for new players.
Holy cow, what a detailed comment highlighting literally all the edge cases :)
Yes, the 33kg on the second layer is a mistake on my end. Everything else though, even though you are 100% right, couldn't make it into a beginners video because it would make the video wayyyy too long and may overwhelm a new player. I really appreciate you taking the time to write all this out. Maybe I will make a "Advanced" video as a follow up to this one to cover those cases... but then of course with a huge shoutout for you! Thank you :)
16:19
Atleast mention that you need to tilt the auto sweeper to be touching the outside blob of crude oil that comes in contact with atmosphere so it never overheats,if people take the example for literally what it seems like,the autosweeper in a vacuum will eventually overheat since it has nowhere to disperse the heat to being in a vacuum,also most of the Liquid locks here could be replaced with a diagonal 1 blob design that doesnt even exchange heat,preferably using naphta which is much better for liquid locks than anything else aside visco gel since even if you had 20 KG of Naphta on a single tile,it wouldnt overflow to the side like other liquids would.
If not replaced by the diagonal design,you could just have a blob to the left and right and rebuild 2 tiles in the middle,destroy them and get a vacuum for no heat transer without the need of 2 full side by side liquid locks like the examples,as long as the blobs on left and right are no more than 50g so they can just sweep in the middle to get rid of the excess before building the tiles and destroying them to make the vacuum.
So we should liquid lock auto sweeper too, maybe now that can work. Xd
14:00 replacing the tile touching the 2 liquids and putting a insulated tile 2 tiles below the tile you just replaced, forming another point on the bottom gives you a even less heat transfer, as it puts a vacuum between the 1 liquids. As it is now, the 2 liquids will transfer heat into the insulated tile, albeit very slowly, but over 500 - 1000 cycles, this can be a lot of heat, and you may end up with 60+c water in your lock, and will leak some heat out into the environment. For the cost of 1 metal tile, I use this every time now.
That can potentially be an issue, you are right. But, all the tiles insulated tiles would heat up a bit over that period of time, so there is really no way to contain it all unless you have a vacuum around the entire build which kind of defeats the purpose ;)
13:05, Unless you are dealing with insulite, there will be heat transfer over time, even to insulated tiles. So if you were doing something like this for a room that would remain hot potentially forever... as the room heats up and heats up the oil, it will SLOWLY heat up the tile touching the water. Putting a little vacuum gap between the locks (and potentially around the room) is a bit more labor intensive, and requires a decent amount of extra space, but it guarantees to NEVER fail. This is also nice because it perfectly contains your system surrounded by a vacuum, which makes long term heat calculations a lot more reasonable.
.
It is kinda breaking the game a little bit... essentially forming the room into it's own planet. But hey, it's a single player sandbox game, so it is what it is.
I've had water liquid locks turn to small ice pebbles instead of ice tiles before allowing gases to pass. Don't know why, but it did. Luckily some CO2 was in the way so the chlorine didn't sneak out but watch out.
I would have liked to see you freeze that liquid lock with the hydrogen. You say it would be a solid and still contain the gas. I think the bottom tile of the lock would freeze solid, but the other tiles have so little water in them that they would just be debris, instead of being a solid tile. There by causing your gas to escape.
That would have been a good test, to be 100% safe you’d definitely have to fill the top tiles above 500kg per tile! Good catch!
something you didnt show but it's "easier" is using visco-gel as a liquid lock. reason i said "easier" is because it's a late game item. but it doesnt flow like a normal liquid it can stack 2 tiles high in just one tile without needing to use 2 different liquids. just look up visco gel liquid locks and see how easy it is to make.
I didn't show Visco Gel on purpose, because it is a endgame material. And obtaining it with Resin/Isoresin is one of the more difficult tasks in the game and really warrants it's own video at some time :)
I don´t know how I got her. I literally made a pause from a thermodynamics calculation to be presented with some interesing heat-pump design fron´m inside a game, presented by an german engineer XD
10/10 would like the heat capacity of the super coolant
Lmao, the YT algorithm played in my favor on that I think ;)
Thank you very much for that nice and wonderfull guide.
Thank you 😊 😊
6:30 salt water is also a good choice when pwater is not so plentiful, or brine in a pinch.
Very true, they are usable. In a pinch for sure, if you have nothing else. But I highlighted Polluted Water because it should always be available, even if you just use the "output" from your dupes ;)
@@BierTieryou might have mentioned ethanol for cooling on the lower end of the spectrum. better freezing point than petroleum and a bit higher shc, worse evap point though.
This is a really good explanation, thanks
Thank you, appreciate it :)
Hi BierTier, I have a question. I made myself a petroleum boiler, not the conventional zig zag version but the "place all crude oil in one room and heat it" version. My question is, why does petroleum starts to form when the crude oil reach 350c in general? Shouldn't crude oil starts to transform into petroleum at 400c?? Oh, and I use magma to heat it.
Why would you bother making insulated pipes inside insulated tiles?
Won't the tiles already prevent any temperature exchange?
Insulated pipes or walls do not insulate 100% unless they are made out of insulation(a very late-game material with 0 heat transfer). So putting insulated pipes into insulated walls actually combines the "insulation power". Any insulated material(other than insulation itself) will eventually heat up. The best early-mid game material to use is igneous rock, followed by ceramic in the later stages and insulation for very high heat applications in the very end game.
Nicely done. :)
Thank you :)
Man I miss your videos, when are you gonna do a playthru on the "lab" map?
It's gonna happen eventually, but I don't have a timeline as of this moment. I'm currently in Germany on vacation with family and friends, when I'm back in the US I will try to come up with a gameplan :)
@@BierTier ok cool have fun on vacation!
I know this vid is a year old but what’s the purpose of the liquid reservoir? Most builds I don’t see it and you didn’t really specify. Thanks!
The liquid reservoir is technically not required, but can help in a couple different ways. For one, it has an increased thermal mass, so if something should go wrong(power outage), you will not be stuck with hot fluid in the pipe instantly. Another benefit is future expandability, since the required resource(polluted water for example) is already there. I implement one in all my tamers and heat deletion devices of any sort. Has come in handy many times :)
It's funny to me that all the sciency stuff that ONI models, it doesn't really do anything with pressure past making Dupes grumpy.
How do you even get the liquids into a liquid lock? A pump and 50000 meters (if lock is far away) of pipe?
Usually a pitcher pump and a bottle emptier with some dupe labor. Unless a liquid is nearby, then piping is viable as well 😊
One block on the side drop water on it break walls the 1 block will hold the drop the same as the other simple locks.
steam turbine 2.0 life changing update to the game no shit this basically makes everything possible
Steam Turbine is insanely powerful indeed. Nothing gets rid of heat better ;)
=HMMMPHHHH........THANKS FOR THE TIP ABOUT THESE PIPE DECONSTRUCT METHOD ABOUT LIQUID LOCK, HEHE BC OF I WAS USING A BOTTLE EMPTIER OF 33.8g WATER ....... BUT AT LEAST IT WAS MORE SUITABLE IF NOT WANT TO DO MESS
=AND.....FOR BASIC BASE COOLING, ISNT JUST A WORT COOLING ENOUGH....LIKE HYDROGEN PIPES/CHAMBERS/FLOWER POTS
we did pause the game, I mean video :)
Thanks for the video, the explanations are clear and informative, If I may, can you make more advanced tutorials or perhaps something on a general abstract timeline on what to build. Sometimes or most of times I get lost in big projects, that is not necessarily bad but I tend to plan more for the future (eg big farms etc:)
Yeah, I did say game, didn’t I, haha 😂
I noticed while editing, but left it as is :)
I will make more advanced tutorials, I do have more in the pipeline for sure :)
Одни из лучших гайдов ONI!
Thank you! Appreciate it ;)
Ты видимо не видел(а) ирландца, любящего виски с шоколадом.
A Irishman who loves whiskey with chocolate? Are you drunk or is the google translator? Lmao 😂
@@BierTier whiskey and chocolate. Translation errors ends here. Just listed some notable features of a somewhat notable RUclipsr in ONI community without telling his name. He also often comes back.