@@olivetaelizabeth It is Jesus' church and only His. It was never Peter's church or any popes church. Peter is the cornerstone but Jesus is the foundation
@@bcalvert321 hey you are right. The Church that Jesus started in 33 AD is the Church of Christ. And Jesus assigned Peter to feed his Sheep; all Christians. So Peter and all Popes are the Leaders of Team Catholic. If you do play Soccer you would have a Team lead… right? So there is nothing wrong if we have a Team Lead as well who is our beloved Pope Francis.
Yes, because it is a blessing. Jesus blesses Peter. Jimmy Akin talks about this somewhere. Not about the hand on his shoulder, but about the format being a blessing.
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” That’s because the Scripture has Jesus saying this TO Peter. Not to all who could hear him and then tells them not to tell anyone. Wild.
@@John_Six ! ’ve read that analysis. It’s what convinced him of the papacy. Akin mentions D.A. Carson, Baptist scripture scholar, basically saying in his commentary on Matthew that Peter is obviously the rock. It’s only anti-Catholic bias that keep people from admitting it
Even if I’m not always in full agreement with some of the teachings of the church as a Catholic when I see the insane hatred from some protestants and the total disregard and distortion of what we actually believe it makes me glad I’m part of Christ’s church. Their theology is truly embarrassing.
@@FunkadereI hate seeing the bigotry against protestants on these sites. From the saying we don't know the Bible to that stupid idea, we are not saved. Both show hate and ignorance that you haven't a clue about what Jesus taught and what the Bible actually says. Catholics would rather trust men who never knew Jesus than those who did.
I wonder about the actual demographic of those who watch the show. I noticed some protestants refusing to watch because they believe the show to be “graven images”.
I've seen that objection on IG. I responded to the guy "what are the photos in your profile if not graven images of anything on Earth or Heaven?" The meltdown was real. The low church definition of idolatry is utter nonsense.
Growing up Protestant (but in RCIA and becoming Catholic next Easter), I heard many sermons on this part of the Bible. I can see why there wasn’t an uproar of backlash about these scenes, because it’s how most Protestants imagine it also when reading the Bible. They acknowledge that Peter was indeed chosen as a leader by Jesus to establish the initial *foundation* for his church. That this would be Peter’s task during his lifetime - to lay a solid foundation with which others could stand and to lead Jesus’ disciples (only the ones that Jesus knew - not future generations) after Jesus died. Therefore Protestants also believe that once Peter eventually died, this task was complete…and since Jesus didn’t explicitly mention that a successor would be needed…and since the New Testament doesn’t talk about appointing a successor after Peter…then that’s the end. That is the typical Protestant belief and I don’t think the show deviated from that or went against that in any way.
@@dherpin4874 correct -- now back up to verse :13 -- the Topic is Christ, and the 'rock' His church is build upon is the Fact that Jesus is Messiah and the Son of the Living God. there are multiple verses, proofs making this clear. see 1 Peter 5:1 -- Peter is -the leader- a fellow elder -- nothing more. see Matt 18:1 -- didn't they get the memo? this is only 2 of many, many proofs -- showing this just isn't so, Sir.
@@tony1685 thank you! This major point is missed so often in the context. God did not build the foundation of His church on a man ( Peter) but on the truth of who Jesus really is. That's the context.
I don't really watch The Chosen much, but this scene and the little "dialogue additions" they added actually enhance the scene quite well -- the "dead gods" have nothing to offer their followers, but the "Living God" is able to produce a Son, and those who follow Him and His Church also become His children. Jonathan Roumie's performance after that line was also great, he sells that feeling of indescribable joy Jesus must've been feeling when he realized his top student was one step closer to becoming His brother. The Catholic Church is such a gift, it's The Way to obtaining theosis, and we should always pray, fast, and sacrifice for those who don't have unity with Peter's successors.
I saw a video of Dallas, the director, consulting with many theologians before writing the scripts. Many of those theologians where catholic, even Bishop Barron was there once!
.I hope he comes back to the round table. He spoke more in a respectful way that the other kind priest. I kept waiting for him to say "Catholics believe this" but he just stayed quiet. I am grateful although I didn't like how Mary speaks of the birth of Jesus later and other things, I am grateful he left "other children" very ambiguous.
Another thing is the subtitles. When he addressed Peter and gave him his new name it was a capitalized Rock, but when he said and on this rock it was lowercase
@@RealAugustusAutumn The Catholic Peter isn't the only one who is different from the Biblical Peter. But also the Catholic Mary is totally different from the Biblical Mary.😪
Luke 22 24 A dispute also arose among them, as to which of them was to be regarded as the greatest. 31 “Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you, that he might sift you like wheat, 32 but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned again, strengthen your brothers.” Imagine you're an apostle sitting at the last supper and Jesus says this to Peter in front of everyone when you literally just discussed who is the greatest amongst each other. How would you feel?
Why should Vigano watch something in which he already believes, that is, that Kepha is the earthly head of the church? Aren't you clear that Vigano believes the See is vacant, that the current occupant is, unfortunately, not Kepha's successor?
@@SipswithSerra I don't know why +Vigano "should" watch an episode relating what +Vigano already believes, that Kepha is the earthly head of the Church. +Vigano believes in the office of the papacy, what he doesn't accept is that the current occupier of that office is legit. +V believes the See is vacant.
In Jesus’s Aramaic it’s much more implicit. He calls Peter ‘Kephas’, and on this Kephas I will build my church. There’s no other words for rock and the fabled ‘pebble’ like there is in Greek.
@@eddardgreybeardYeah because Peter is a male, the Gospel writers didn't want to use petras (feminine) to describe Peter, because he is a male, so they used petros. Not because he is the "little rock" but because petros is masculine.
I have heard a few explanations, the most frequent being that the "rock" is that specific act of faith of Peter or maybe that Jesus was pointing at himself as the rock. Honestly, all of them are quite weak arguments. In this passage, Jesus says that Simon Peter is BLESSED because the power revealed it to him in person, and no one else. That shows two things: the first being that Peter was somehow enlightened by the Father through the Holy Spirit, which means that the infallibility of Peter and its continuation in the Apostolic See comes entirely from a special act of God: and the second being that this gift is independent of Peter's worthiness. This is the mystery of God choosing whoever he wants for his mysterious purposes: we just have to submit humbly to his will, whatever it is, because God gets the greatest good even from the most terrifying evil.
Yeah although people could argue He was speaking Greek at the time, but the point is Peter’s real name in aramaic is “Cephas” thats what Jesus changed it to in John 1 so the verse is “you are petros (really cephas) and on this cephas i will build my church”
Catholics derive the papacy from Matthew 16:13-19. There's a peter/eliakim typology explaination used here from Isaiah 22 showing parallels to help build the argument. God bless
@@byzantinebeauty Indeed, Suan Sonna quoting all the modern protestant scholars' interpretations and completely ignoring all the Church Fathers of the pre and ante-Nicene period. Sorry, but not convincing at all.
Peter has been depicted throughout this series as the "alpha" of the group (apart from Christ, of course) and everyone tends to look to him for leadership and guidance, particularly after this scene. Personally, I want to see how they handle the incident with Ananias and Sapphira, assuming they go that far.
..brother you have to explain the connection. Isaiah 22 shows us the institution of a prime minister under a king, in similar fashion to that of the pope under Christ. Which is what Matt 16 harkens back to with binding and loosing and the connection with doors opening and closing. The best explanationof this ive found online comes from Suan Sonna on youtube. @jamesmonahan9408
Thinking on Jesus of Nazareth tv miniseries from 1977, it re-aired in the 1980s. Growing up as Protestant...never thought of Peter as an unimportant disciple when seeing that movie. Feel the resistance in history is to corrupt men in the Chair of Peter. If you use that to deny miracles & visions of godly Roman Catholics, you need to live in mystery more..and not say you know the good ones' hearts...when you do not. As Catholic I have more rest to who God is and His plans and Life ...future Presence with Creation. God supports what He wants and hides from others- those that don't love Him where He calls. I believe God is over all regions and souls with other degrees of illumination ...and not judge them as finished, fixed to who they are -cause you are called to be a servant to the Holy Spirit.
I also think the papacy is affirmed biblically when Jesus asks Peter 3 times if he loves him. And tells him to take care of and feed his sheep. The church.
Its not even hard. His name was Simon and in that moment Christ changed his name to Petras/ Kephas. Its not pebble its rock. Pride and mental gymnastics. Protestants deny Peter was the first bishop of Rome and whether he even died in Rome. Anything they can do to deny the Papacy and Authority. The authority that was willed by God.
They literally affirmed the Catholic (aka the original) interpretation of the Papacy (so the role of Peter), I’m PROUD and HAPPY that the show shows literally how it HAS TO BE INTERPRETED. Glory to God, yall this (and other parts in the Chosen) shows the TRUTH of the Catholic Church. “And the gates of hell shall now prevent on it” (Jesus said that, not me. Got it antixclericals and protestants?)
The Chosen has done a decent job at neither confirming nor denying Catholic/Protestant. I respect them for that because I watch various RUclips channels that flesh out biblical history as it pertains to the show, and there was so much turmoil around Peter. One creator would literally laugh at the Catholic perspective while doing some serious mental gymnastics when trying to explain the protestant perspective. And, the comment section was full of liberated posters who were quite insulting over this topic. So, I do appreciate that The Chosen does it's best to depict what is biblically accurate without imposing any particular point of view. I look forward to the roundtables that are coming out soon. I like hearing all perspectives and deciding for myself.
That second scene was funny. It made me laugh a lot. As for how it was depicted, "Simon becoming Peter" the truth is the truth as recorded in scriptures, our feelings about that are immaterial.
My personal take on The Eucharist is: when Jesus said, "Will you leave me too?" Peter's attitude wasn't an adoring, "where else would I go but You!", but more a disturbed, offended, "there isn't anywhere else we CAN go. We're not comfortable with this teaching either, but You are the only source of Truth. We'll stay and hope it makes sense later."
Im orthodox. Yes Peter has a place of primacy amongst the apostles do to his faithfulness. However, these Catholics never seem to be able to make any logical connection between this papal primacy and Vatican I papal indefectability, infallibility and the papacy’s geopolitical claims. Remember even Peter himself defected and denied Christ three times before returning to him. And if the pope is indefectible then why have the past three popes done things like pray with Muslims toward Mecca or venerated the Quran (an action that would indicate defection) according to the Roman church.
Each one of the disciples represents people, the church. No one is orthodox or Catholic or other. This was conforming local churches regional. The more we get in to the denomitional wars the more we lose the message. What i took the message from the disciples is that they were making it about rank and not about God, jesus.
Another RUclipsr pointed out that the Chosen has not given us the "Bread of Life" discourse and the Transfiguration. They may bring them in as "flashbacks" or something like that.
Dallas Jenkins said that he wasn't going to include the transformation on the mount because he technically didn't know how to do it effectively on the screen.
@@michaelhaynes6172When was that? Because around August 2023, he had posted- People keep saying the transfiguration would be an important scene, and I'm confused as to why...what purpose would it serve our story?
Peter is the leader, it is very clear in the Bible. Paul went to Peter about the circumcision issue and it was Peter who had the vision to settle the matter. Peter has the keys to the kingdom and the early church has written that Peter knew he was to be replaced when he dies. I don't understand how people can say the Catholic Church made it up when the early church fathers confirmed this papacy centuries before the establishment of the Roman Catholic Church. How can people literally deny it when the evidence is right there? To me, that is satan having his hold on the person. Those people seriously need Jesus
They did good but the keys of heaven and rest of the dialouges they made it was for everyone. I was so mad for that. It's so obvious one knows the bible truly will know, Peter is the Rock. My dear protestants who don't believe in Papacy. Just forget what your denominations preach you for a minute. Just have the Holy Bible in your mind and answer to these questions: Psalm 23 says, The Lord is ____ (shepherd) John 10 says, I am the ___ (good shepherd); I lay down my life for the ___ (sheep) In Mathew 16, Jesus gave Simon a new name, he called him Kephas which literally means Rock in Aramaic. Rock here doesn't mean a physical element but a firm foundation. (Explained in Mathew 7:25) He gave Peter the keys of kingdom of heaven and said, "whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”(indications in Isaiah 22). (2) Who's the shepherd - Lord is; Now who is a Shepherd?- a person whose job is to look after sheep. Now moving on to John 21, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Feed my lambs", “Take care of my sheep" "Feed my sheep". Jesus rests the responsibility of being a Shepherd on the earth To Peter(since Jesus ascended To heaven). Thus Peter becomes the successor, a person or thing that comes after somebody/something else and takes his/her/its place. And then when Peter died of Crucifixion his responsibility goes to another one, and then to another. Thus the succession of being the shepherd happend for 2000 years. And Pope is a Latin word for Papa, Father. Fathers usually leads the family. On earth pope is being the leader of the catholic church. He leads us to Lord Jesus. And do not twist my words, God Is one and he's in three forms. Saint Peter was a mere human, who glorified God by his martyrdom. But he was elevated by the Christ and the father. So he's a saint. Deep down in ur heart you know this is the truth. But false interpretations of your churches will make it difficult for the brain to accept this simple thing.
Yes that was my reaction at first why did they make it look like everyone got the keys I got so annoyed but later there was a scene which says Peter has the keys and no one else does. So they kind of saved it.
@@george484-ns7ck I hope they give importance to him. I was not impressed by 4th epidode too. I loved it, but they made Thad, James and mary Magdalene understood Jesus's prognosis and they have been listening while peter arguing over pomegranates. I love how they are giving importance to everyone but st.Peter was the one who acknowledged it first took him aside and said this should not happen and God inreturn gave him an earful😂 but they showed like he didn't care at all. St.peter has always been viewed as a protective hot headed person but here they split his role of being protective to simon z and hothead role to son of thunder. They are doing a great job but some areas are still not acceptable to me. They have a good actor, hope they use him well.
the feed my lambs and take care of my sheep is just the reinstatement of Peter. Peter denied Christ three times, so he told Peter those things 3 times. He asked Peter "Do you love me more than these" because Peter was the only one to say that he wouldn't fall away, though the other "disciples" would. I am leading more towards Eastern Orthodoxy. Peter answered him, “Though they all fall away because of you, I will never fall away.
@@dumbnumb162 You will say anything but won't accept the truth. Everyone left Jesus except for John, Thomas even doubted him. Peter said he would die for him, the others said that too. But they were saved. Though he denied Jesus, he didn't realize that until the second crow. If you read carefully you yourself can see that. Why Jesus didn't ask anyone else other than Peter to take care of his lamb? You can deny, protest like every protestant do. But you can't ignore the truth for a long time. He was the leader of apostles, even a child can understand that from reading the Bible. Peter was the pope and the other apostles were thr Cardinals present now.
I always felt they did a good job of staying in the Mere Christianity lane. Which does mean you won't make a ton of people excited, but also not disappoint. But I don't think they are pro-Catholic, though they flirt with it. During the Nativity they showed BVM having some discomfort during birth, which is against Catholic tradition. Though they did in ep 1 of this season focus rather heavily on the Annunciation. An event many Protestants treat as an afterthought.
My thoughts are that most Christians affirm Peter was first among the apostles, Papal Supremacy & Peter being first among the Apostles aren't identical concepts at all, the Eastern Church would contend that Peter was First among the Apostles, which functioned as First Among Equals, some will point to James the Brother of Jesus seeming to have primacy over Peter in theological disagreements, others will point out that Peter was Bishop of Rome & Antioch, meaning both branches in schism have claim to the Bishopric of Saint Simon Peter, others would say that the testimony Peter gave was the Rock Jesus built his church upon, some would claim the literal rock they were standing on which was known for idols & had a place literally known as the Gates of Hell there was the rock, some say Peter was the pebble and the rock was a boulder/foundation stone...I think The Chosen intentionally left it open to every single one of those interpretations, and I personally believe we're all right about it in some weird way...of course I tend to think most serious traditional branches, especially with Apostolic Succession are right about this whole Christianity thing & wrong about it in their own special ways.
I heard that in the episode when Jesus says to Peter he will build His church on him that they had Jesus step back and say it like he was talking to all the apostles and not just Peter which would be biblically wrong and very Anti-Catholic?
Yes they did. And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
Jonathan Roumie just presented at the 2024 Eucharistic Congress and indicated they weren't going to do John 6... so he did it there. I highly recommend you watch it.
I had the same thought. They went out of the way to point out that Jesus named him "rock" and "upon this rock I will build my church." Jesus explicitly gives Peter authority over His other followers in this scene.
Peter has not been given any authority here, he was only given another name, so people could remember what he actually said! Instead of concentrating on Simon-Peter, maybe it would help if one actually read the whole passage from start to finish to even try and discern what this whole passage was about, don't you think?
@@pauldbeer v18 can be argued, but the meaning of v 19 cannot. Jesus is an eternal king and He established Peter and the first occupant of the perpetual office of steward.
@@pauldbeer Jesus does not just change name just so we can remember it? You don't think our God like that right? Its always for a very very important reason, and if so then didn't you believe that scripture alone is the only one that He left on earth, then why the need for changing name of one of his disciples just for us to remember a teaching from Him about His church you dont even believe visible, where in fact Jesus establishes there a visible church that the gates of hell wont prevail, you dont even believe that do you? Cause if you do then you must believe in the Church to remains standing for thousand year, surely God can do that something evil cant.
Many people don't know that Jesus actually gives the name Peter to Simon in their first encounter (John 1:42). So, the rock upon which Christ builds his Church is not only Peter's confession, but the person of Peter himself.
Nobody tell the Catholics that after 2 chapters, all the Apostles got the office of the Keys. It has always been a "first among equals" situation. Peter was the first among equals and then Rome became the first among equals.
Alternative Title: “Does any of it really matter, Jesus came to earth, to save you from your sins, died on the cross & rose 3 days later, who cares about “who did what first” or “the origins of so & so” what matter in life is the message of Jesus Christ, not petty differences amongst churches
Well, though I firmly believe that Matthew's passage definitely asserts the Primacy of Peter, I also know that there are others who feel it refers to Jesus as 'the Rock' and Peter as only a lesser rocker. Using the Greek to denote a pebble over the Aramaic that implies a boulder. Neither side of the issue should take offense as to how it was done in "The Chosen". The same, IMO, can be said of the institution of the Eucharist, or the Bread of Life narrative of Jn. 6. I'm fairly sure it will not step on anyone's toes, but will use what the Bible says.
I could be completely misremembering, but isn't there a point later in the season where they bring this up again and Jesus species that they are all the foundation of the church? Maybe that was just a RUclipsr's interpretation, but I thought I remembered hearing that in one of the episodes themselves.
I take it as Jesus was personally addressing Simon-Peter when he gave him the title of the rock. It was given person to person. It never has came off to me as something that was supposed to be passed down. On Simon-Peter he did build his church and clearly it was built on a rock because it has lasted for this long, with so many people not supporting the pope.
Even Protestant scholars generally agree Peter had some kind of leadership role in the early Church, based on the evidence in Acts etc. They try to claim it was a lesser authority than the Pope.
Channel: Patristic Pillars Channel: Classical Christian Thought Book: Rev. S. Herbert Scott, ‘The Eastern Churches and the Papacy’ Book: Rev. Dr. Christiaan Kappes, B.A William Albrecht, ‘The Complete Guide to the Papacy in the Holy Bible’
The real interesting part will be post Resurrection if in Acts Peter will be shown as a first among bishops. Hopefully they do but i also understand they have to be careful and neutral
As a Anglican I understand apostolic succession. A disciple had students who had students who had students and each is a successor. Peter is the rock and he had successor and his priesthood lineage was the most important of the apostles. So I tend to see this as affirming the proto papacy. That said there's two lineages. The Coptic and Catholic popes who descend from different students of Peter's teachings. I'm Anglican myself because I think kings over popes but I personally respect the papacy position and have no problem if the Anglican, Catholic and Coptic churches reconcile ecumenical unity. Since Copts have a pope and Anglicans high church apostolic tradition, to be honest the Copts and Anglicans can reunited with Catholics as a rite. A English rite and Copts join the Catholic Alexandrian rite. The greatest representation of Christianity is unity so that they (non Christians) may know God's kingdom. As a protestant I defend the reformation as it happened but now think the controversies have ended. (Communally I'll stay Anglican but ecumenically would be happy if the King and Pope reunited in religion) So unlike most Protestants I'm not hostile towards Catholicism. Or yes the Pope. So why am I not Catholic? Because nothing is achieved if I just joined. It's better if the whole Anglican institution converted and the 80 million of this denomination enter communion with the Catholic Church as a institution and pray for such reconciliation.
@@noahtylerpritchett2682 But dude, you could also act on it. Just sayin'. And do you know why it is important? Here is the specific passage from John 17:20-23 (NIV): "My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one-I in them and you in me-so that they may be brought to complete unity. *Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me."* In this passage, Jesus prays for the unity of all believers, emphasizing that this unity is a reflection of the unity between Him and the Father. The purpose of this unity is so that the world may believe that the Father sent Jesus and that the Father loves the believers as He loves Jesus. The prayer highlights the importance of unity among Christians as a testimony to the world of the truth of the Gospel and the love of God. As things are, the world mocks Christians because we are not unified. Change that.
Hmm, well I agree with you that the scene was "tastefully done" and it left the idea rather ambiguous on purpose (because after all, it's just a widespread show - not specifically intended to teach any particular form of Christianity). However, the problem (at least from a Catholic perspective) is that the scene only includes the verses Matthew 16:17-18, but conveniently left out the following verse which is so important: "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” (Matthew 16:19). It's that same following verse that many Protestants also conveniently forget to cite when they make the same erroneous argument of "the 𝘳𝘰𝘤𝘬 just refers to Peter's statement, not Peter himself" - nope, you can't give "the keys of heaven" to a statement nor the authority to "bind and loose" to a statement (plus of course it is obvious parallel language to the prophecy from Isaiah and references the prophecy in Daniel). There was such potential to introduce some thought-provoking biblical concepts to Protestants, but I guess the show decided to simply avoid any kind of remotely-possible conflict.
The scene does include that line immediately after the clip showed here, but it's with Jesus speaking as he does at the end of this clip (i.e. could be taken as addressing the whole group, including the women).
@@doateacher6492 Oh, really? Ok, then he just didn't show the whole scene. Nevertheless, by the way you describe it, that is still misleading - because in the scripture Jesus is clearly speaking only to Simon - in the original Greek text Jesus says "δώσω σοι" - "I give to 𝘺𝘰𝘶 (sg.)" - the Greek language has distinct words for "you" depending on if it is one person or multiple people - and in that verse, the singular form is used.
@@verdecillo9940 Agreed. I wish they had staged it better. But given that Dallas Jenkins isn't Catholic and they have people from several faith traditions working on the show, I guess it could have been a lot worse.
Simon surnamed Peter WAS NEVER a bishop of any Christian congregation in the Imperial City of Rome. Linus is Rome's first Christian bishop. 'The Acts of the Apostles' makes this plainly clear without fail.
I remember in the original trailer for the season seeing a clip from this scene and it gave me the impression it was trying to say this rock was the the living faith so interesting that the final cut appeared more affirming this way.
They present it as a point of inquiry -as a question. This is most likely a projection of our modern separation rather than the actual events. It is clear from scripture that the one speaking out (someone times for good , and other times in error) most of the time. Peter seems like Jesus' best friend, and although the apostles do squabble about who is first at some time during the Gospels, it is clear that Peter is a leader.
If "The Chosen" is at all orthodox in doctrine, it is all but certain to "affirm" some Catholic doctrines; because Protestant doctrines overlap at many points with those of Catholicism. The "Catholic distinctives" are not the only Catholic doctrines, nor are they usually the most important ones.
This verse in the Bible was never ambiguous to me. It was always clear to me that Jesus did affirm Peter as the material rock on which He would build His church. 1- the disciple's name was Simon 2- Jesus purposefully changed Simon's name to Peter (rock) 3- immediately after changing Simon's name to Peter Jesus says on this rock I will build my church. So if we replace 'Peter' in the sentence with its actual meaning it read as Jesus saying: 'And I say you are rock and on this rock I will build my church'. Now we know that Jesus is also refered to as the Rock in the Bible. However this is where we must take the whole Bible in its holisticl context. When we do that it becomes clear that Jesus is the spiritual Rock, God and the foundation upon which all material and immaterial things rest on. However Jesus is not the material worldly rock since the world is not His true kindgom but instead His creation. Jesus said to Pilate in John 18:36 "My kingdom is not from this world. If my kingdom were from this world, my followers would be fighting to keep me from being handed over to the Jews. But as it is, my kingdom is not from here.” Therefore Simon was made to be Peter the material wordly rock upon which Jesus was going to build his visible church on earth and make him the leader of the material and visible church which the Holy Spirit would then be sent to guide until the end of times when Jesus will finally return for the final judgement. So yes Jesus is the spiritual Rock and founder of the Church and the foundation for the whole of creation but Peter is the earthly material rock upon which the visible and material church was built upon and became the leader of the material and visible church of Christ on earth. No contradiction or ambiguity here in my view.
The Chosen ended up not including the immediate following sentences in the same conversation were Jesus also calls Peter Satan. I think the show disciples would've been a lot less jealous if that part wasn't omitted.
Paul corrects Peter on 2 occasions. Peter may have been a leader, but he, like the Roman Catholic Church got things wrong. He wasn't the Vicar of Christ, and I bet he would absolutely object to that.
I think it appears to affirm the Papacy because when scripture is treated fairly, and not viewed through a lens, an earthly leader of the Church, in the same vein of the High Priest in the old testament, is evident.
What's funny is that they are trying hard to show that Peter is not actually THE ROCK but A STONE by adding a lot of words that are nowhere in the Bible to the show. As an example in the show one disciple told his mother that Jesus changed Simon's name to Peter and it means something like a corner stone of a house.
I think the Chosen has had some Catholic leaning moments. But what I like about it is that it makes its money in the shadows, or in between the lines, of what the Bible doesn't say. There is no end to the number of movies, shows, miniseries, etc...that just use the Bible as a script. Think of the movie "The Ten Commandments." It lived very much within what the Bible says. However, anyone that reads the Bible knows that reading the Bible just leads to more questions and it leaves you to wonder about the rest of the story. The Chosen isn't afraid to go into those shadows and give a representation of what was happening behind the scenes, so to speak.
Im honestly interested how they will do the institution of the eucharist. Jesus speaks metaphorically alot but he repeats it, and then lets the disciples leave without correcting them because he was teaching transubstantiation and in a literal sense.
It’s about time people laid 0:53 down their lies to embrace the seat of authority and interpretation that predated the Church and started with the chair of Moses. Moses (who not only wrote the first books of the Bible) but it says he took his seat and judged the people.
I'm surprised I haven't come across your Channel before. Good video. I haven't been keeping up with this show, and I'm glad to see they handled this sense so well.
In a later episode in this season, Jesus clarified with the disciples that what he meant is that all of them are leaders who will build his church. So therefore, I don’t believe they were trying to confirm the papacy.
Ive heard a number of Protestant arguments. I think it's best to keep it simple. If Simon is not the first among the apostles, then why change his name to "Rock"? No other apostle did this.
I'm catholic, and I truly think that taking the biblical records seriously makes you more catholic and less protestant. Yet, about this topic, the tipical protestant position is not shaken by Peter beeing the leader because the argument they try to push is: "Jesus makes Peter the leader among the apostles, but doesn't follow that he should have sucessors with the sabe blessings or power". I think the argument is a excuse and the history of the Church and even Acts goes against this argument. What I would like to point out is that the series in this clips isn't enought to call it "a catholic defense" in itself. Peace brothers in Crist 🙏
I love the show, but I was waiting to see how they were going to handle John 6:32-66. Will Dallas and Company confirm the Eucharist or are they just gonna sort of skip over this one? Also curious as Jonathan Roumie is a supposed to be Catholic.
Yeah, then they blew it right after when Jesus backed up and looked at everyone when he said, “to you I give the keys of the kingdom of heaven.” Jesus, to stay consistent would’ve remained looking at Peter exclusively.
Could you cover the Christmas Special, especially in regard to the actual moment of Jesus' birth? The show seems to imply Mary had birth/labor pains. However, it seems widely held in Catholicism that she (Mary) did not experience labor pains, though I don't think the Church has ever made any explicit teaching on if Mary had labor pains.
It absolutely did not hint at the papacy. Christ declared Peter as the first Patriarch and he would later move to Rome. He was the only first ordained Patriarch and everyone who came after him slowly became more power-hungry and tried you usurp more and more authority, with the result of the Patriarch of Rome declaring absolute power. This was not what the early church advocated for and everyone at the time knew it, so the now new Pope added new doctrine to legitimize this split.
1. Orthodox (all of the other patriarchate than the one of Rome) do believe in papacy they just have a different conception of it. 2. The verse is about Peter's confession about Christ. Peter was indeed the chief of the apostles but subject to make mistakes and to be corrected by Paul for exemple.
On the road walking, Nathaniel says “I’m pretty sure Jesus is the rock on which the church is built.” So they still snuck in a Protestant clincher with a script written line found no where in the Bible.
I do think it's not such as the authority peter has but the confidence he has one Jesus being his Lord that is portrayed. The other disciples where talking about "yeah everyone will say that if someone said it first" but peters confidence of Christ, the genuine confidence Christ saw on Peter, it was no other intentions that was in Peters heart. That's why he is called rock due to the faith he has with Jesus, not because he is the rock of the church but his foundation of faith was admirable and is a standard, and also because the rock of the church must be Christ in Corinthians 3:11 and Ephisians 2:20. Though yes Peter has the character of a leader, but it also means that we if we have a character of a leader then we can lead, everyone has a part in the Kingdom of God. But only God has the authority over us through the Holy spirit, that's why we need to practice intimatcy with our Lord to give us a discernment that we need if that calling is for us or by ourselves.
Also, when the disciples were talking about not bearing false witness, can't remember the exact episode or scene, Big James mentioned that as the 8th Commandment. Which affirms to the Catholic Ten Commandments, not the protestant.
Catholicism is based on a misunderstanding of what the word "church" means. "Church" everywhere in the Bible is used to refer to a local assembly, such as the church in this place or the church in that place. Jesus was making Peter the head of the church at Jersusalm. He was not making him the head of some "universal church" because, in Biblical terms, that is a completely nonsensical use of the word "church".
It was an affirmation! By the way, what could be the protestants ' perspective on changing the names of the appointed people like when God called ABRAM ABRAHAM, And SIMON PETER?
That last scene definitely depicts us Christian. Some doesnt affirm Papacy like Orthodox and Protestant. So yeah, that scene for me is very interesting.
I hope they do the eucharist and the last supper correctly. They said they were going to make the last supper, like passover because it is. There going to do the Jewishness of passover which does give me hope for them. Because as Scott Hahn and many others affirm a correct understanding of passover leads to a correct understanding of the eucharist especially with the 4th cup and stuff. And the fact that they eat the lamb after it's been sacrificed.
Portraying the Bible accurately means you are going to end up making something Catholic .It is very typical .
But the show isn't accurate. It's almost all made up.
W
Except that part where Jesus reproached a woman who praised Mary (His mother) and told His disciples to let no man call them “father”. Oops! 🫢
@OneTrueVikingbard literacy is dead amongst protestants.
@@OneTrueVikingbard A matter of misplaced interpretation. e.g. Do not love any earthly "Father" more than your Heavenly Father, IMO.
"You must sumbit a written formal inquiry to speak to the rock."
I love that scene
they were all illeterate no?
@@notasinglesoul1179 I'm pretty sure they knew how to read
The Rock indeed who holds the keys to the Kingdom of heaven❤ and the gates of the netherworld can never prevail against it. Period.
@@olivetaelizabeth It is Jesus' church and only His. It was never Peter's church or any popes church. Peter is the cornerstone but Jesus is the foundation
@@bcalvert321 hey you are right. The Church that Jesus started in 33 AD is the Church of Christ. And Jesus assigned Peter to feed his Sheep; all Christians. So Peter and all Popes are the Leaders of Team Catholic. If you do play Soccer you would have a Team lead… right? So there is nothing wrong if we have a Team Lead as well who is our beloved Pope Francis.
I always imagined Jesus saying those words with his hand on Peter’s shoulder!
Same here!
Yes, because it is a blessing. Jesus blesses Peter. Jimmy Akin talks about this somewhere. Not about the hand on his shoulder, but about the format being a blessing.
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
That’s because the Scripture has Jesus saying this TO Peter. Not to all who could hear him and then tells them not to tell anyone. Wild.
@@John_Six ! ’ve read that analysis. It’s what convinced him of the papacy. Akin mentions D.A. Carson, Baptist scripture scholar, basically saying in his commentary on Matthew that Peter is obviously the rock. It’s only anti-Catholic bias that keep people from admitting it
@@John_Six Three fold three fold blessing, not just a blessing or even a three fold blessing. Not the only place it is affirmed either.
I'm hiding out here for a while from the rabid anti-Catholic attack mob. They haven't found this channel yet.
They're here.😬
Even if I’m not always in full agreement with some of the teachings of the church as a Catholic when I see the insane hatred from some protestants and the total disregard and distortion of what we actually believe it makes me glad I’m part of Christ’s church. Their theology is truly embarrassing.
@flockinchillin37 not to mention their awful, overused, and blatant use of "gotchas" built on misunderstanding the Church
@@FunkadereI hate seeing the bigotry against protestants on these sites. From the saying we don't know the Bible to that stupid idea, we are not saved. Both show hate and ignorance that you haven't a clue about what Jesus taught and what the Bible actually says. Catholics would rather trust men who never knew Jesus than those who did.
@@bcalvert321 this is what catholics are talking about 👆
They handled Peter so well!
Too bad they portrayed Our Lady as having a painful childbirth, and thus a heresy.
I wonder about the actual demographic of those who watch the show. I noticed some protestants refusing to watch because they believe the show to be “graven images”.
...really, lol.
That’s insane if true.
I've seen that objection on IG. I responded to the guy "what are the photos in your profile if not graven images of anything on Earth or Heaven?"
The meltdown was real. The low church definition of idolatry is utter nonsense.
I didn’t watch it because I thought it was like the movie where he acts more like a sorcerer than a man who commands the universe
@@totallynotthebio-lizard7631 you should watch it for yourself, that also absurd in my mind.
Growing up Protestant (but in RCIA and becoming Catholic next Easter), I heard many sermons on this part of the Bible. I can see why there wasn’t an uproar of backlash about these scenes, because it’s how most Protestants imagine it also when reading the Bible. They acknowledge that Peter was indeed chosen as a leader by Jesus to establish the initial *foundation* for his church. That this would be Peter’s task during his lifetime - to lay a solid foundation with which others could stand and to lead Jesus’ disciples (only the ones that Jesus knew - not future generations) after Jesus died.
Therefore Protestants also believe that once Peter eventually died, this task was complete…and since Jesus didn’t explicitly mention that a successor would be needed…and since the New Testament doesn’t talk about appointing a successor after Peter…then that’s the end. That is the typical Protestant belief and I don’t think the show deviated from that or went against that in any way.
Acts 1: 25
If Judas Iscariot had someone take his seat then Peter definitely had someone take his seat too.
Matthew was about Peter's Confession -- Jesus as Messiah , not at all about Peter.
@@tony1685 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
@@dherpin4874 correct -- now back up to verse :13 -- the Topic is Christ, and the 'rock' His church is build upon is the Fact that Jesus is Messiah and the Son of the Living God.
there are multiple verses, proofs making this clear.
see 1 Peter 5:1 -- Peter is -the leader- a fellow elder -- nothing more.
see Matt 18:1 -- didn't they get the memo?
this is only 2 of many, many proofs -- showing this just isn't so, Sir.
@@tony1685 thank you! This major point is missed so often in the context. God did not build the foundation of His church on a man ( Peter) but on the truth of who Jesus really is. That's the context.
The Bible confirms the papacy
I don't really watch The Chosen much, but this scene and the little "dialogue additions" they added actually enhance the scene quite well -- the "dead gods" have nothing to offer their followers, but the "Living God" is able to produce a Son, and those who follow Him and His Church also become His children. Jonathan Roumie's performance after that line was also great, he sells that feeling of indescribable joy Jesus must've been feeling when he realized his top student was one step closer to becoming His brother. The Catholic Church is such a gift, it's The Way to obtaining theosis, and we should always pray, fast, and sacrifice for those who don't have unity with Peter's successors.
I saw a video of Dallas, the director, consulting with many theologians before writing the scripts. Many of those theologians where catholic, even Bishop Barron was there once!
.I hope he comes back to the round table. He spoke more in a respectful way that the other kind priest. I kept waiting for him to say "Catholics believe this" but he just stayed quiet. I am grateful although I didn't like how Mary speaks of the birth of Jesus later and other things, I am grateful he left "other children" very ambiguous.
Another thing is the subtitles. When he addressed Peter and gave him his new name it was a capitalized Rock, but when he said and on this rock it was lowercase
Nice catch I missed that
It was also a one word sentence, so it could’ve been capitalized for that reason.
It's a different Peter, the Biblical Peter was never a Catholic.
@@benjaminfalzon4622 A different Peter is wild 😂😂 " tell me you've never read the Bible without telling me"
@@RealAugustusAutumn The Catholic Peter isn't the only one who is different from the Biblical Peter. But also the Catholic Mary is totally different from the Biblical Mary.😪
Additinally, I love how the Chosen captures the authentic love of Jesus and Mary in the simple, tender, ordinary moments.
Luke 22
24 A dispute also arose among them, as to which of them was to be regarded as the greatest.
31 “Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you, that he might sift you like wheat, 32 but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned again, strengthen your brothers.”
Imagine you're an apostle sitting at the last supper and Jesus says this to Peter in front of everyone when you literally just discussed who is the greatest amongst each other. How would you feel?
The most beloved Apostle was John, however Peter is still the leader of the Apostles
@@jd3jefferson556
John couldn't be John if he was the leader of the Apostles.
@@eddardgreybeard exactly. God has such a wonderful plan for each of us.
I’m Protestant but I love the Argentina jersey! As an Argentine, +1000 aura.
Viganò should watch this, lol
LOL YES
Why should Vigano watch something in which he already believes, that is, that Kepha is the earthly head of the church? Aren't you clear that Vigano believes the See is vacant, that the current occupant is, unfortunately, not Kepha's successor?
@@SipswithSerra I don't know why +Vigano "should" watch an episode relating what +Vigano already believes, that Kepha is the earthly head of the Church. +Vigano believes in the office of the papacy, what he doesn't accept is that the current occupier of that office is legit. +V believes the See is vacant.
@@pmlm1571 Don't you have a Taylor Marshall to put in your mouth?
@@pmlm1571so he believes the gates of hell has prevailed against the church
In Jesus’s Aramaic it’s much more implicit. He calls Peter ‘Kephas’, and on this Kephas I will build my church. There’s no other words for rock and the fabled ‘pebble’ like there is in Greek.
Even then, it's distinguishing between the masculine nomative and an actual rock.
@@eddardgreybeardYeah because Peter is a male, the Gospel writers didn't want to use petras (feminine) to describe Peter, because he is a male, so they used petros. Not because he is the "little rock" but because petros is masculine.
Anyone can volunteer an answer to this. What is the Protestant explanation of why the Lord names Simon as Peter?
I have heard a few explanations, the most frequent being that the "rock" is that specific act of faith of Peter or maybe that Jesus was pointing at himself as the rock. Honestly, all of them are quite weak arguments.
In this passage, Jesus says that Simon Peter is BLESSED because the power revealed it to him in person, and no one else. That shows two things: the first being that Peter was somehow enlightened by the Father through the Holy Spirit, which means that the infallibility of Peter and its continuation in the Apostolic See comes entirely from a special act of God: and the second being that this gift is independent of Peter's worthiness. This is the mystery of God choosing whoever he wants for his mysterious purposes: we just have to submit humbly to his will, whatever it is, because God gets the greatest good even from the most terrifying evil.
Yeah although people could argue He was speaking Greek at the time, but the point is Peter’s real name in aramaic is “Cephas” thats what Jesus changed it to in John 1 so the verse is “you are petros (really cephas) and on this cephas i will build my church”
It affirms the Catholic understanding because that is exactly how it is in the Bible.
Chosen expands Bible stories beyond the Bible
As catholic doctrine goes beyond the Bible so does the Chosen
@@edithhewson7208 The Catholic Church compiled the Bible. How can the Catholic Church go against what it created?
@@jamwiddle6642 It wasn't the catholic church that compiled the bible lol
@@AmodeusR It was.
First compiled at the council of rome.
To be historical and biblical honest is to affirm the papacy
BOOO-HOOO! How? in what passage in the Bible did you get that from? Please inform?
Catholics derive the papacy from Matthew 16:13-19. There's a peter/eliakim typology explaination used here from Isaiah 22 showing parallels to help build the argument.
God bless
@@OhmandomStudioswe have Suan Sonna to thank for this one 🙏🏼
@@byzantinebeauty Indeed, Suan Sonna quoting all the modern protestant scholars' interpretations and completely ignoring all the Church Fathers of the pre and ante-Nicene period. Sorry, but not convincing at all.
@@pauldbeer Mt. 16:19 + Is 22:20-22 + 2 Tim 2:2 = Papacy
Peter has been depicted throughout this series as the "alpha" of the group (apart from Christ, of course) and everyone tends to look to him for leadership and guidance, particularly after this scene.
Personally, I want to see how they handle the incident with Ananias and Sapphira, assuming they go that far.
they wont cover acts
@@InitialPClet’s hope they do
@@InitialPC that is very disappointing to hear.
To affirm the papacy, look to the readings on Eliakim & Shebna in Isaiah 22 starting in verse 15, not just Peter.
I don't see it, explain more.
@@justgreatmagic read it and do a deep study on it.
@@jamesmonahan9408 I’ve read it. All of 22.
@@justgreatmagic Research it and study it. After reading do a DEEP STUDY on it.
..brother you have to explain the connection. Isaiah 22 shows us the institution of a prime minister under a king, in similar fashion to that of the pope under Christ. Which is what Matt 16 harkens back to with binding and loosing and the connection with doors opening and closing. The best explanationof this ive found online comes from Suan Sonna on youtube. @jamesmonahan9408
Thinking on Jesus of Nazareth tv miniseries from 1977, it re-aired in the 1980s. Growing up as Protestant...never thought of Peter as an unimportant disciple when seeing that movie.
Feel the resistance in history is to corrupt men in the Chair of Peter. If you use that to deny miracles & visions of godly Roman Catholics, you need to live in mystery more..and not say you know the good ones' hearts...when you do not. As Catholic I have more rest to who God is and His plans and Life ...future Presence with Creation.
God supports what He wants and hides from others-
those that don't love Him where He calls.
I believe God is over all regions and souls with other degrees of illumination
...and not judge them as finished, fixed to who they are
-cause you are called to be a servant to the Holy Spirit.
I'm a Filipino Roman Catholic and I watch The Chosen and I greatly appreciate the show. ❤🙏🏽
I also think the papacy is affirmed biblically when Jesus asks Peter 3 times if he loves him. And tells him to take care of and feed his sheep. The church.
Its not even hard. His name was Simon and in that moment Christ changed his name to Petras/ Kephas. Its not pebble its rock. Pride and mental gymnastics. Protestants deny Peter was the first bishop of Rome and whether he even died in Rome. Anything they can do to deny the Papacy and Authority. The authority that was willed by God.
They literally affirmed the Catholic (aka the original) interpretation of the Papacy (so the role of Peter), I’m PROUD and HAPPY that the show shows literally how it HAS TO BE INTERPRETED. Glory to God, yall this (and other parts in the Chosen) shows the TRUTH of the Catholic Church. “And the gates of hell shall now prevent on it” (Jesus said that, not me. Got it antixclericals and protestants?)
The Chosen has done a decent job at neither confirming nor denying Catholic/Protestant. I respect them for that because I watch various RUclips channels that flesh out biblical history as it pertains to the show, and there was so much turmoil around Peter. One creator would literally laugh at the Catholic perspective while doing some serious mental gymnastics when trying to explain the protestant perspective. And, the comment section was full of liberated posters who were quite insulting over this topic. So, I do appreciate that The Chosen does it's best to depict what is biblically accurate without imposing any particular point of view. I look forward to the roundtables that are coming out soon. I like hearing all perspectives and deciding for myself.
That second scene was funny. It made me laugh a lot. As for how it was depicted, "Simon becoming Peter" the truth is the truth as recorded in scriptures, our feelings about that are immaterial.
My personal take on The Eucharist is: when Jesus said, "Will you leave me too?" Peter's attitude wasn't an adoring, "where else would I go but You!", but more a disturbed, offended, "there isn't anywhere else we CAN go. We're not comfortable with this teaching either, but You are the only source of Truth. We'll stay and hope it makes sense later."
Im orthodox. Yes Peter has a place of primacy amongst the apostles do to his faithfulness. However, these Catholics never seem to be able to make any logical connection between this papal primacy and Vatican I papal indefectability, infallibility and the papacy’s geopolitical claims. Remember even Peter himself defected and denied Christ three times before returning to him. And if the pope is indefectible then why have the past three popes done things like pray with Muslims toward Mecca or venerated the Quran (an action that would indicate defection) according to the Roman church.
Each one of the disciples represents people, the church. No one is orthodox or Catholic or other. This was conforming local churches regional.
The more we get in to the denomitional wars the more we lose the message.
What i took the message from the disciples is that they were making it about rank and not about God, jesus.
Another RUclipsr pointed out that the Chosen has not given us the "Bread of Life" discourse and the Transfiguration. They may bring them in as "flashbacks" or something like that.
Dallas Jenkins said that he wasn't going to include the transformation on the mount because he technically didn't know how to do it effectively on the screen.
Both are directly related to Eucharist.
Hopefully he does do the bread of life discourse in a flashback especially during the last supper secne in season 5 it will be perfect
@@michaelhaynes6172When was that? Because around August 2023, he had posted- People keep saying the transfiguration would be an important scene, and I'm confused as to why...what purpose would it serve our story?
Peter is the leader, it is very clear in the Bible. Paul went to Peter about the circumcision issue and it was Peter who had the vision to settle the matter.
Peter has the keys to the kingdom and the early church has written that Peter knew he was to be replaced when he dies.
I don't understand how people can say the Catholic Church made it up when the early church fathers confirmed this papacy centuries before the establishment of the Roman Catholic Church.
How can people literally deny it when the evidence is right there?
To me, that is satan having his hold on the person. Those people seriously need Jesus
They did good but the keys of heaven and rest of the dialouges they made it was for everyone. I was so mad for that. It's so obvious one knows the bible truly will know, Peter is the Rock. My dear protestants who don't believe in Papacy. Just forget what your denominations preach you for a minute. Just have the Holy Bible in your mind and answer to these questions:
Psalm 23 says, The Lord is ____ (shepherd)
John 10 says, I am the ___ (good shepherd); I lay down my life for the ___ (sheep)
In Mathew 16, Jesus gave Simon a new name, he called him Kephas which literally means Rock in Aramaic. Rock here doesn't mean a physical element but a firm foundation. (Explained in Mathew 7:25) He gave Peter the keys of kingdom of heaven and said, "whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”(indications in Isaiah 22). (2) Who's the shepherd - Lord is; Now who is a Shepherd?- a person whose job is to look after sheep.
Now moving on to John 21, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Feed my lambs", “Take care of my sheep" "Feed my sheep". Jesus rests the responsibility of being a Shepherd on the earth To Peter(since Jesus ascended To heaven). Thus Peter becomes the successor, a person or thing that comes after somebody/something else and takes his/her/its place. And then when Peter died of Crucifixion his responsibility goes to another one, and then to another. Thus the succession of being the shepherd happend for 2000 years. And Pope is a Latin word for Papa, Father. Fathers usually leads the family. On earth pope is being the leader of the catholic church. He leads us to Lord Jesus. And do not twist my words, God Is one and he's in three forms. Saint Peter was a mere human, who glorified God by his martyrdom. But he was elevated by the Christ and the father. So he's a saint. Deep down in ur heart you know this is the truth. But false interpretations of your churches will make it difficult for the brain to accept this simple thing.
Yes that was my reaction at first why did they make it look like everyone got the keys I got so annoyed but later there was a scene which says Peter has the keys and no one else does. So they kind of saved it.
@@george484-ns7ck I hope they give importance to him. I was not impressed by 4th epidode too. I loved it, but they made Thad, James and mary Magdalene understood Jesus's prognosis and they have been listening while peter arguing over pomegranates. I love how they are giving importance to everyone but st.Peter was the one who acknowledged it first took him aside and said this should not happen and God inreturn gave him an earful😂 but they showed like he didn't care at all. St.peter has always been viewed as a protective hot headed person but here they split his role of being protective to simon z and hothead role to son of thunder. They are doing a great job but some areas are still not acceptable to me. They have a good actor, hope they use him well.
@@doodleart7692 yeah I know and the bible said none of the disciples understood and they were scared to ask him about his death and resurection
the feed my lambs and take care of my sheep is just the reinstatement of Peter. Peter denied Christ three times, so he told Peter those things 3 times. He asked Peter "Do you love me more than these" because Peter was the only one to say that he wouldn't fall away, though the other "disciples" would. I am leading more towards Eastern Orthodoxy. Peter answered him, “Though they all fall away because of you, I will never fall away.
@@dumbnumb162 You will say anything but won't accept the truth. Everyone left Jesus except for John, Thomas even doubted him. Peter said he would die for him, the others said that too. But they were saved. Though he denied Jesus, he didn't realize that until the second crow. If you read carefully you yourself can see that. Why Jesus didn't ask anyone else other than Peter to take care of his lamb? You can deny, protest like every protestant do. But you can't ignore the truth for a long time. He was the leader of apostles, even a child can understand that from reading the Bible. Peter was the pope and the other apostles were thr Cardinals present now.
I'm crying with Joy, Christ is king!!
I always felt they did a good job of staying in the Mere Christianity lane. Which does mean you won't make a ton of people excited, but also not disappoint.
But I don't think they are pro-Catholic, though they flirt with it. During the Nativity they showed BVM having some discomfort during birth, which is against Catholic tradition.
Though they did in ep 1 of this season focus rather heavily on the Annunciation. An event many Protestants treat as an afterthought.
The Annunciation is lost in translation for most.
My thoughts are that most Christians affirm Peter was first among the apostles, Papal Supremacy & Peter being first among the Apostles aren't identical concepts at all, the Eastern Church would contend that Peter was First among the Apostles, which functioned as First Among Equals, some will point to James the Brother of Jesus seeming to have primacy over Peter in theological disagreements, others will point out that Peter was Bishop of Rome & Antioch, meaning both branches in schism have claim to the Bishopric of Saint Simon Peter, others would say that the testimony Peter gave was the Rock Jesus built his church upon, some would claim the literal rock they were standing on which was known for idols & had a place literally known as the Gates of Hell there was the rock, some say Peter was the pebble and the rock was a boulder/foundation stone...I think The Chosen intentionally left it open to every single one of those interpretations, and I personally believe we're all right about it in some weird way...of course I tend to think most serious traditional branches, especially with Apostolic Succession are right about this whole Christianity thing & wrong about it in their own special ways.
I heard that in the episode when Jesus says to Peter he will build His church on him that they had Jesus step back and say it like he was talking to all the apostles and not just Peter which would be biblically wrong and very Anti-Catholic?
I think they played both sides
They’re doing it objectively to not offend anyone. Remember, the director is protestant
Yes they did.
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
How they did the part about the key made it look like he gave it to all the apostle.
It's unacceptable for Catholics.
This channel will become famous one day,and I can say that I was subscriber when this channel was around 2k.
Thanks for being an OG! If God wills it, we will reach 1M in no time 😎
@@SipswithSerraoh I am absolutely certain, there is no doubt in mind about that 😃 God bless you 🙏
only because of Amos 8:11
I LOVE THE CHOSEN
The Chosen doesn’t seem to understand the foundation of The Holy See, much less love Saint Peter. smh
Also when he asks Peter if he loves him, 2-3 times, to which Peter is instructed to guide the flock! Is that coming up in a later episode? 😊
most definitely that will be in a future episode, but probably season 6 at the rate they're going...
Idk if they’ve done John 6, but I can’t wait to see how they handle that
They've done (miracle of the multiplication) and nothing of John 6 was mentioned.
Jonathan Roumie just presented at the 2024 Eucharistic Congress and indicated they weren't going to do John 6... so he did it there. I highly recommend you watch it.
Well, if they followed the gospel readings, then yes!
I had the same thought. They went out of the way to point out that Jesus named him "rock" and "upon this rock I will build my church." Jesus explicitly gives Peter authority over His other followers in this scene.
Peter has not been given any authority here, he was only given another name, so people could remember what he actually said! Instead of concentrating on Simon-Peter, maybe it would help if one actually read the whole passage from start to finish to even try and discern what this whole passage was about, don't you think?
@@pauldbeer if hes not referring to peter then did Jesus build a church there in the place where he said that ??
@@pauldbeer v18 can be argued, but the meaning of v 19 cannot.
Jesus is an eternal king and He established Peter and the first occupant of the perpetual office of steward.
@@pauldbeer Jesus does not just change name just so we can remember it? You don't think our God like that right? Its always for a very very important reason, and if so then didn't you believe that scripture alone is the only one that He left on earth, then why the need for changing name of one of his disciples just for us to remember a teaching from Him about His church you dont even believe visible, where in fact Jesus establishes there a visible church that the gates of hell wont prevail, you dont even believe that do you? Cause if you do then you must believe in the Church to remains standing for thousand year, surely God can do that something evil cant.
@@pauldbeer so you're just going to ignore the other verses and John 21??? You ignorant people!!!
Many people don't know that Jesus actually gives the name Peter to Simon in their first encounter (John 1:42). So, the rock upon which Christ builds his Church is not only Peter's confession, but the person of Peter himself.
The actor who plays Jesus is , Maronite Catholic actually;)
He was baptized Orthodox and is now Roman Catholic
Nobody tell the Catholics that after 2 chapters, all the Apostles got the office of the Keys. It has always been a "first among equals" situation. Peter was the first among equals and then Rome became the first among equals.
Great breakdown
Alternative Title, "Did the Chosen accurately portray reality?"
Alternative Title: “Does any of it really matter, Jesus came to earth, to save you from your sins, died on the cross & rose 3 days later, who cares about “who did what first” or “the origins of so & so” what matter in life is the message of Jesus Christ, not petty differences amongst churches
Some were mad on the RUclips for that episode but not as bad as I thought
I suppose there wouldn’t be too much controversy because even anglicans can affirm that he was the first among equals, just not papal infallibility.
Well, though I firmly believe that Matthew's passage definitely asserts the Primacy of Peter, I also know that there are others who feel it refers to Jesus as 'the Rock' and Peter as only a lesser rocker. Using the Greek to denote a pebble over the Aramaic that implies a boulder. Neither side of the issue should take offense as to how it was done in "The Chosen".
The same, IMO, can be said of the institution of the Eucharist, or the Bread of Life narrative of Jn. 6. I'm fairly sure it will not step on anyone's toes, but will use what the Bible says.
I could be completely misremembering, but isn't there a point later in the season where they bring this up again and Jesus species that they are all the foundation of the church? Maybe that was just a RUclipsr's interpretation, but I thought I remembered hearing that in one of the episodes themselves.
I take it as Jesus was personally addressing Simon-Peter when he gave him the title of the rock. It was given person to person. It never has came off to me as something that was supposed to be passed down. On Simon-Peter he did build his church and clearly it was built on a rock because it has lasted for this long, with so many people not supporting the pope.
I agree with you! I believe that our Lord Jesus Christ chose Saint Peter as our first Pope of our Catholic Church Amen⭐️❤️🔥🕊✝️🙏
Even Protestant scholars generally agree Peter had some kind of leadership role in the early Church, based on the evidence in Acts etc. They try to claim it was a lesser authority than the Pope.
Somehow they miss the importance of Christian unity in the process.
Channel: Patristic Pillars
Channel: Classical Christian Thought
Book: Rev. S. Herbert Scott, ‘The Eastern Churches and the Papacy’
Book: Rev. Dr. Christiaan Kappes, B.A William Albrecht, ‘The Complete Guide to the Papacy in the Holy Bible’
The real interesting part will be post Resurrection if in Acts Peter will be shown as a first among bishops. Hopefully they do but i also understand they have to be careful and neutral
As a Anglican I understand apostolic succession.
A disciple had students who had students who had students and each is a successor.
Peter is the rock and he had successor and his priesthood lineage was the most important of the apostles.
So I tend to see this as affirming the proto papacy.
That said there's two lineages. The Coptic and Catholic popes who descend from different students of Peter's teachings.
I'm Anglican myself because I think kings over popes but I personally respect the papacy position and have no problem if the Anglican, Catholic and Coptic churches reconcile ecumenical unity.
Since Copts have a pope and Anglicans high church apostolic tradition, to be honest the Copts and Anglicans can reunited with Catholics as a rite.
A English rite and Copts join the Catholic Alexandrian rite.
The greatest representation of Christianity is unity so that they (non Christians) may know God's kingdom.
As a protestant I defend the reformation as it happened but now think the controversies have ended.
(Communally I'll stay Anglican but ecumenically would be happy if the King and Pope reunited in religion)
So unlike most Protestants I'm not hostile towards Catholicism. Or yes the Pope.
So why am I not Catholic? Because nothing is achieved if I just joined.
It's better if the whole Anglican institution converted and the 80 million of this denomination enter communion with the Catholic Church as a institution and pray for such reconciliation.
"Nothing is achieved"? Jesus prayed that we would all be one. Is unity nothing?
@@randycarson9812 i also pray for unity
@@noahtylerpritchett2682 But dude, you could also act on it. Just sayin'.
And do you know why it is important?
Here is the specific passage from John 17:20-23 (NIV):
"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one-I in them and you in me-so that they may be brought to complete unity. *Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me."*
In this passage, Jesus prays for the unity of all believers, emphasizing that this unity is a reflection of the unity between Him and the Father. The purpose of this unity is so that the world may believe that the Father sent Jesus and that the Father loves the believers as He loves Jesus. The prayer highlights the importance of unity among Christians as a testimony to the world of the truth of the Gospel and the love of God.
As things are, the world mocks Christians because we are not unified.
Change that.
@@randycarson9812 truth
Hmm, well I agree with you that the scene was "tastefully done" and it left the idea rather ambiguous on purpose (because after all, it's just a widespread show - not specifically intended to teach any particular form of Christianity). However, the problem (at least from a Catholic perspective) is that the scene only includes the verses Matthew 16:17-18, but conveniently left out the following verse which is so important: "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” (Matthew 16:19). It's that same following verse that many Protestants also conveniently forget to cite when they make the same erroneous argument of "the 𝘳𝘰𝘤𝘬 just refers to Peter's statement, not Peter himself" - nope, you can't give "the keys of heaven" to a statement nor the authority to "bind and loose" to a statement (plus of course it is obvious parallel language to the prophecy from Isaiah and references the prophecy in Daniel). There was such potential to introduce some thought-provoking biblical concepts to Protestants, but I guess the show decided to simply avoid any kind of remotely-possible conflict.
The scene does include that line immediately after the clip showed here, but it's with Jesus speaking as he does at the end of this clip (i.e. could be taken as addressing the whole group, including the women).
@@doateacher6492 Oh, really? Ok, then he just didn't show the whole scene. Nevertheless, by the way you describe it, that is still misleading - because in the scripture Jesus is clearly speaking only to Simon - in the original Greek text Jesus says "δώσω σοι" - "I give to 𝘺𝘰𝘶 (sg.)" - the Greek language has distinct words for "you" depending on if it is one person or multiple people - and in that verse, the singular form is used.
@@verdecillo9940 Agreed. I wish they had staged it better. But given that Dallas Jenkins isn't Catholic and they have people from several faith traditions working on the show, I guess it could have been a lot worse.
Simon surnamed Peter WAS NEVER a bishop of any Christian congregation in the Imperial City of Rome. Linus is Rome's first Christian bishop. 'The Acts of the Apostles' makes this plainly clear without fail.
Well I find it encouraging that they said you are Peter, rock and not Peter, pebble. 😂
I remember in the original trailer for the season seeing a clip from this scene and it gave me the impression it was trying to say this rock was the the living faith so interesting that the final cut appeared more affirming this way.
They present it as a point of inquiry -as a question. This is most likely a projection of our modern separation rather than the actual events. It is clear from scripture that the one speaking out (someone times for good , and other times in error) most of the time. Peter seems like Jesus' best friend, and although the apostles do squabble about who is first at some time during the Gospels, it is clear that Peter is a leader.
All our questions and doubts are answered in the Scripture of Truth \ Word of God in its original writing and not blurred in traslations!
If "The Chosen" is at all orthodox in doctrine, it is all but certain to "affirm" some Catholic doctrines; because Protestant doctrines overlap at many points with those of Catholicism. The "Catholic distinctives" are not the only Catholic doctrines, nor are they usually the most important ones.
This verse in the Bible was never ambiguous to me.
It was always clear to me that Jesus did affirm Peter as the material rock on which He would build His church.
1- the disciple's name was Simon
2- Jesus purposefully changed Simon's name to Peter (rock)
3- immediately after changing Simon's name to Peter Jesus says on this rock I will build my church.
So if we replace 'Peter' in the sentence with its actual meaning it read as Jesus saying:
'And I say you are rock and on this rock I will build my church'.
Now we know that Jesus is also refered to as the Rock in the Bible. However this is where we must take the whole Bible in its holisticl context.
When we do that it becomes clear that Jesus is the spiritual Rock, God and the foundation upon which all material and immaterial things rest on.
However Jesus is not the material worldly rock since the world is not His true kindgom but instead His creation.
Jesus said to Pilate in John 18:36 "My kingdom is not from this world. If my kingdom were from this world, my followers would be fighting to keep me from being handed over to the Jews. But as it is, my kingdom is not from here.”
Therefore Simon was made to be Peter the material wordly rock upon which Jesus was going to build his visible church on earth and make him the leader of the material and visible church which the Holy Spirit would then be sent to guide until the end of times when Jesus will finally return for the final judgement.
So yes Jesus is the spiritual Rock and founder of the Church and the foundation for the whole of creation but Peter is the earthly material rock upon which the visible and material church was built upon and became the leader of the material and visible church of Christ on earth.
No contradiction or ambiguity here in my view.
Yeah definitely confirming Catholic beliefs 🙏🏻❤️
The chosen was always meant to be catholic. Most protestant branches are iconoclast so they wouldn’t be making this show anyway.
The Chosen ended up not including the immediate following sentences in the same conversation were Jesus also calls Peter Satan. I think the show disciples would've been a lot less jealous if that part wasn't omitted.
Paul corrects Peter on 2 occasions. Peter may have been a leader, but he, like the Roman Catholic Church got things wrong. He wasn't the Vicar of Christ, and I bet he would absolutely object to that.
I think it appears to affirm the Papacy because when scripture is treated fairly, and not viewed through a lens, an earthly leader of the Church, in the same vein of the High Priest in the old testament, is evident.
What's funny is that they are trying hard to show that Peter is not actually THE ROCK but A STONE by adding a lot of words that are nowhere in the Bible to the show. As an example in the show one disciple told his mother that Jesus changed Simon's name to Peter and it means something like a corner stone of a house.
I alwaus imagined that scene without passersby behind them😂
I think the Chosen has had some Catholic leaning moments. But what I like about it is that it makes its money in the shadows, or in between the lines, of what the Bible doesn't say. There is no end to the number of movies, shows, miniseries, etc...that just use the Bible as a script. Think of the movie "The Ten Commandments." It lived very much within what the Bible says. However, anyone that reads the Bible knows that reading the Bible just leads to more questions and it leaves you to wonder about the rest of the story. The Chosen isn't afraid to go into those shadows and give a representation of what was happening behind the scenes, so to speak.
Im honestly interested how they will do the institution of the eucharist. Jesus speaks metaphorically alot but he repeats it, and then lets the disciples leave without correcting them because he was teaching transubstantiation and in a literal sense.
It’s about time people laid 0:53 down their lies to embrace the seat of authority and interpretation that predated the Church and started with the chair of Moses. Moses (who not only wrote the first books of the Bible) but it says he took his seat and judged the people.
I'm surprised I haven't come across your Channel before. Good video. I haven't been keeping up with this show, and I'm glad to see they handled this sense so well.
In a later episode in this season, Jesus clarified with the disciples that what he meant is that all of them are leaders who will build his church. So therefore, I don’t believe they were trying to confirm the papacy.
You know at the end of the day, we WILL find out who the TRUE church, (CATHOLIC), is, when we're standing before God!!
Ive heard a number of Protestant arguments. I think it's best to keep it simple. If Simon is not the first among the apostles, then why change his name to "Rock"? No other apostle did this.
We need to get back to 1950s way our connection to God is what we do
I'm catholic, and I truly think that taking the biblical records seriously makes you more catholic and less protestant. Yet, about this topic, the tipical protestant position is not shaken by Peter beeing the leader because the argument they try to push is: "Jesus makes Peter the leader among the apostles, but doesn't follow that he should have sucessors with the sabe blessings or power".
I think the argument is a excuse and the history of the Church and even Acts goes against this argument. What I would like to point out is that the series in this clips isn't enought to call it "a catholic defense" in itself.
Peace brothers in Crist 🙏
It is just as open for interpretation as the verse itself.
I love the show, but I was waiting to see how they were going to handle John 6:32-66. Will Dallas and Company confirm the Eucharist or are they just gonna sort of skip over this one? Also curious as Jonathan Roumie is a supposed to be Catholic.
Yeah, then they blew it right after when Jesus backed up and looked at everyone when he said, “to you I give the keys of the kingdom of heaven.”
Jesus, to stay consistent would’ve remained looking at Peter exclusively.
Could you cover the Christmas Special, especially in regard to the actual moment of Jesus' birth? The show seems to imply Mary had birth/labor pains. However, it seems widely held in Catholicism that she (Mary) did not experience labor pains, though I don't think the Church has ever made any explicit teaching on if Mary had labor pains.
It absolutely did not hint at the papacy. Christ declared Peter as the first Patriarch and he would later move to Rome. He was the only first ordained Patriarch and everyone who came after him slowly became more power-hungry and tried you usurp more and more authority, with the result of the Patriarch of Rome declaring absolute power. This was not what the early church advocated for and everyone at the time knew it, so the now new Pope added new doctrine to legitimize this split.
1. Orthodox (all of the other patriarchate than the one of Rome) do believe in papacy they just have a different conception of it.
2. The verse is about Peter's confession about Christ. Peter was indeed the chief of the apostles but subject to make mistakes and to be corrected by Paul for exemple.
On the road walking, Nathaniel says “I’m pretty sure Jesus is the rock on which the church is built.” So they still snuck in a Protestant clincher with a script written line found no where in the Bible.
I do think it's not such as the authority peter has but the confidence he has one Jesus being his Lord that is portrayed. The other disciples where talking about "yeah everyone will say that if someone said it first" but peters confidence of Christ, the genuine confidence Christ saw on Peter, it was no other intentions that was in Peters heart. That's why he is called rock due to the faith he has with Jesus, not because he is the rock of the church but his foundation of faith was admirable and is a standard, and also because the rock of the church must be Christ in Corinthians 3:11 and Ephisians 2:20. Though yes Peter has the character of a leader, but it also means that we if we have a character of a leader then we can lead, everyone has a part in the Kingdom of God. But only God has the authority over us through the Holy spirit, that's why we need to practice intimatcy with our Lord to give us a discernment that we need if that calling is for us or by ourselves.
That's exactly what I thought when I saw that scene and episode.
Also, when the disciples were talking about not bearing false witness, can't remember the exact episode or scene, Big James mentioned that as the 8th Commandment. Which affirms to the Catholic Ten Commandments, not the protestant.
Jenkins probably researched this. That or he saw or joined Steve Ray's pilgrimage
Catholicism is based on a misunderstanding of what the word "church" means. "Church" everywhere in the Bible is used to refer to a local assembly, such as the church in this place or the church in that place. Jesus was making Peter the head of the church at Jersusalm. He was not making him the head of some "universal church" because, in Biblical terms, that is a completely nonsensical use of the word "church".
Yes, I do and since it’s the truth, that’s the way it should be portrayed.
Love the jersey. VAMOS 🙌
No it did not affirm the claims of the papacy. Far from it.
It was an affirmation!
By the way, what could be the protestants ' perspective on changing the names of the appointed people like when God called ABRAM ABRAHAM, And SIMON PETER?
That last scene definitely depicts us Christian. Some doesnt affirm Papacy like Orthodox and Protestant. So yeah, that scene for me is very interesting.
I hope they do the eucharist and the last supper correctly. They said they were going to make the last supper, like passover because it is. There going to do the Jewishness of passover which does give me hope for them. Because as Scott Hahn and many others affirm a correct understanding of passover leads to a correct understanding of the eucharist especially with the 4th cup and stuff. And the fact that they eat the lamb after it's been sacrificed.