Piston Engine Gear Head Talks BEV, PHEV & FCEV - AAH 687
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- Опубликовано: 20 мар 2024
- TOPIC:
- Micky Bly is the head of global propulsion system development at Stellantis. He talks about all the work they’re doing with BEVs, PHEVs and fuel cells. But he’s also a total gearhead and he lays out Stella’s efforts to keep its ICE powertrains going until the market goes fully electric.
PANEL:
Micky Bly, Head of Global Propulsion Systems, Stellantis
Larry Webster, Hagerty
Gary Vasilash, shinymetalboxes.net
John McElroy, Autoline.tv
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This fellow was really good. Thankfully our hosts just let him speak and he was full of good information.Thanks John.
One of the best programs ever! Excellent information and good questions and good follow up, keep up the good work
This would have to be the best discussion on vehicles Autoline has had.
The future is still EV regardless what the Big3 says. Auto companies are now global, if you don’t have electric investment you’re done.
Your position is clear. What do you say to the 5 of 6 North American buyers who don’t yet share your view?
@@Thatdavemarsh I don’t believe that your 5 out of 6 is accurate. My point is…China is quickly going electric, Europe is quickly going electric. A large part of profits for GM, Stellantis, and German nameplates is from China. Now China is abandoning ICE vehicles from foreign nameplates and buying the many electric China nameplates. You cannot remain profitable if you only sell vehicles in USA.
@@Thatdavemarsh- Always takes time to overcome the misinformation by oil companies and companies against EVs. As EVs are understood as being more powerful, cleaner, almost no maintenance, and far cheaper fueling, people will gravitate to EVs faster and faster.
@@Thatdavemarsh The same thing as they were told when they did not want to wear seat belts. Or emission controls, or... It is not your choice. Living in a democracy is not a license to continue polluting the planet.
@@danharold3087You can’t pollute in a democracy? I think you’re misinformed.
Great show, broad open minded view of future auto propulsion.
Ice can never beat the efficiency of electric motors....fact....these dinosaurs need to go
Or the performance!
No ICE engine gets 40% efficiency. To make a claim like that, they have to do a lot of mental gymnastics.
@davidbeppler3032 electric motors achieve 80 -90 percent efficiency....anything with fuel burning as a means of propulsion is obsolete...legacy are wasting time and your money
Autoline"s 2015 AAH with Sandy Munro is why we have a Range Extender i3 the past 4 years (102k miles).
RAM is gonna have a winner with this👍
The reality of a smallish, simple ICE paired with a modest size battery is brilliant, especially in a truck.
In our case, we drove 24,000 miles last year on 25 gallons of gas.
Never hostage to public charging while on long trips or towing is fantastic.
Commuting daily on fuel that cost$ 75% less than gas is $$$$$$.
This is why Autoline is incredible - otherwise you arent going ti see interviews with someone this high up in the industry thay ISN'T a C-suite echoing a matketing message.
Awesome interview
The Ram charger with the engine would be great for towing or carrying heavy loads. It would also make a great power train for an RV. Use the generator to recharge the batteries when needed or while boondocking.
Yep👍
Gotta believe word-of-mouth and personal testimonies will get the word out.
General public will be totally confused (as usual) if they try to advertise this on TV.
There's smart people even now who still think every Prius sold has a plug🙄
Stop stealing my ideas 😂
I’m thinking of the possibility of putting that system in a Newell or Marathon Coach. A Cummings X15 as the power-plant connected to a generator charging a 400 kw battery would be epic
@@mauraece Newell and Marathon = Top line coaches in production today. I've got a Super C by Nexus w/ 6.9 liter Cummins. Newell would be 3 x the money as this sytem.
Yep, synth fuels will be a thing but they would be only for sports/trackday or historic cars, kind of like how people still buy hay to feed horses for riding and racing.
Nailed it.
I don't think they'll go synth fuel entirely, the amount of carbon released for track days and weekend sports cars will be inconsequential. That said the CC people are nuts enough to care about a drop in the ocean; it's a religion for them.
Horse and buggy yep
Horses are like trees, we didn't invent them. Horses are not automobiles. Horses have always been costly to keep in captivity. Horses consume 25 percent of a farm output, but horses can reproduce themselves - something electric vehicles cannot do.
@@timothykeith1367yet
This guy Micky Bly makes a lot of sense. More people like him please.
John's mic is more powerful than the rest, should turn his down a bit next week
Great show as always. Your guest is well versed and is knowledgeable about both ICE systems and EV systems. What’s disappointing is his admission that they have no intentions of moving away from ICE expansion. As is typical, if they’re stymied in the US they will pursue expansion in South America. I get it because they are trying to protect their current business but it leaves them susceptible to being further disrupted.
I hope GM resurrects their Voltec program and uses the new Ultium batteries with it. They have the tech, I think folks are ready for it now. Like they could have built at least ten Volts and made higher profits off of them (especially if they just used the tech in a better selling CUV) for every one Hummer EV since they are so battery constrained right now.
Yes, then there's the EV1 legacy and the fact that Mary is distracted by her job at Disney and is pumping the stock for her retirement this year.
Mary Barra CEO and Mark Royce President have each sold more shares in the last three years than they currently hold in gm. YT Connecting the Dots video, check out the sec filings he shows.
Buybacks with borrowed money?
Move on, nothing to see here.
Yep.
An Equinox-sized Voltec would have been a huge hit.
They were busy chasing the darling of the 2008 era, the Prius.
It’s always what could have been with GM
Very insightful, podcast.
God bless have an awesome weekend, the Highlander.😊
John can we get a update on Achates Power. When am I getting a opposed piston four-cylinder eight piston engine for my F-350
One question I wish was asked, if GM couldn’t make the Volt into a profitable technology why does Chrysler think they can make it work?
Marketing.
They should have touted 14,000 commuting miles per year gas-free (42 miles x 365 days).
They confused people with the confusing 230mpg 😳 claims.
@@donswier I actually think the Volt was a sales success. My question is in reference to profitability. GM discontinued the Volt because they lost money on every car they built and they never attempted to make an SUV version (which would validate that the technology was profitable).
Hydrogen costs 2 times any fuel out there. Tesla got a truck with payload to go 400 miles. The fact you waste money with that tech that has failed in California cracks me up. I hope you using grant money for this.
Toyota would subsidize the cost of hydrogen since so high & now gives it away if you actually buy the Murai! They are banking that what they stated on this show will actually materialize. That Amazon will have outlets everywhere & produce hydrogen & deliver the product to you and install it into vehicles. In one Scandinavian country they closed all hydrogen stations because no one was using. They hardly sold the products.
Do these guys not know that there are precious metals in ice cars?
The Sheffield UK roadcleaners reckoned that they could make a £million ($1.2m) a year from the roadside dust for its Platinum group metals in the city, in a test they did a few years ago. Catalytic-converters are fragile and bits blow out.
Platinum is very hard to mine and is used in jewellery.
Lithium is everywhere.
Seawater, brackish (on land) well water, rock spodumene and even 300 old Cornish tin mine workings.
No links. If you can read this you have interweb access.
Do your own research.
The new advancement of the V6 and potential V4 is incredible news! I wonder how well they'll do against all the new Chinese brands once they come into our mkt. Not to mention Tesla improving their current form factor of batteries. I'm kind of getting the sense of what the buggy makers Were saying as that new fangled horseless carriage was coming into market.
“There’s liars, dam liars and battery suppliers.” 😂😂😂
That's 'damn liars' to you Mauraece!
Don’t let them lie to u, the 4xE’s are a huge lie. Most of the time if you’re north of mason Dixon line for half the year the engine locks you out of electric mode, insisting that you use the engine so as to protect it from damage due to non-use! I speak from experience.
Maybe they should also dump more fuel into the cylinder head to cool it while there at it 😉
I'm glad to have heard about the Ramcharger. Electric propulsion is the most efficient presently available, and shrinking the battery to a daily use size has plenty of benefits while still relieving range anxiety - I think it's a winning paradigm. Think too - that's basically the modern railroad "engine" design and railroads maximize efficiency for profit.
I'm looking forward to someone scaling down the concept to small passenger appliances.
Cars do not face the tow and drag trucks do. It would be a step backwards to use them in cars. Every time batteries improve these vehicles become less praticale. Mostly they justify the existence of dealer service departments.
Thank you
The range extender is a good bridge technology till we have ubiquitous charging stations and improved battery efficiency.
Yea, why Stellantis hasn't signed on to join the Tesla Supercharger network is beyond stupid.
Would be funny if Cybertruck range extender turns out to be a lightweight gas generator you can forklift into the bed.
I drank the Kool-Aid six years ago and working on my fourth Tesla, also had a Kia GEN 1 Soul for the wifey. Unless you're driving over 250 miles a day you don't need to supercharge. I wake up every morning with a full tank of electrons from the courtesy of my garage. If you don't have that convenience, then you'll just have to wait until the network builds out just like gas stations did back in the 1940s. I've driven to Orlando, Savannah, Charleston, Charlotte & Richmond from Long Island and that was the only time I supercharged.
Also why they don’t use the exhaust after the converter for the egr. It would cause less engine wear due to carbon particulates being burned off, prior to entering the intake.
Hope to see an electric Dodge Charger here in Europe 😍❤
I've serviced are repaired all my ice cars over 20 years. Have an EV 3 years now and put 100k km on it. I'm converted and will never go back. I just see engines now as noisy loud rattling smelly lums of tortured metal. Uncivilised and inefficient use of energy. Fumes are killing people. They gotta go.
Car guys sometimes like doing maintenance... I mean I do some too.... but the almost zero maintenance of electric propulsion is very convenient. Lawn mowers, leaf blowers, snow blowers, bikes, EVs, you name it! Everything else is already electric.... just a few more devices left...
The sane week I bought my EV, I traded my petrol lawnmower in for a battery electric one just to be officially rid of engines. I've never looked back. Fantastic machine and no maintenance besides oiling up the wheels and sharp up the blade. Solar battery is the new home generator these days. Engines are so dead. Eventually the supply chain will fall apart for engine stuff and that will be the end of them. Electric motors are the king.
Same here! I bought mine 15mos ago after driving ICE for 37 years. I will NEVER buy another ICE vehicle.
Great retrospective discussion looking back. But the future is E!
They new Charger Daytona is a beautiful looking car.
Since you guys are journalists, John, it's "champing" not "chomping" at the bit.
"The Tesla thing where you carry around all the weight but you don't get the capability unless you pay". Can someone explain what he is talking about.
You can buy a Tesla Model S LR with 402 miles range, but it costs $75K or so. If you only need 310 miles, you can get a Tesla Model Y for $48K or so. So you're paying in part for range which requires more batteries that weight and cost more and is less efficient. If you don't need the range, don't buy that varient.
I took it to be a reference to when Tesla sold some Model S with software limited batteries. The same car with the full capacity unlocked cost more. If you bought the less expensive version, you could pay to unlock the capacity later. The software locked versions were actually a good deal. You could charge to "100%" every day, and battery degradation is slower due to not using the full capacity of the pack. I don't know of any current Tesla models that have software limited packs.
@@georgepelton5645 ⬆⬆⬆ This is accurate. They do it from time to time. It does have pro and cons like any decision. 🤷
@@georgepelton5645 Gemini: As of March 2024, there are no reports of Tesla directly limiting range based on price for new models.
Long live the Volt.
Anyone else think we had Jay Leno as a guest (side profile)?
0:19: 🚗 Discussion on historic Buick vehicle, horsepower, and compression ratio with special guest Mickey B.
5:18: ⚙ Transition from horsepower to kilowatts in measuring power efficiency causing confusion among consumers.
9:35: 🚗 Discussion on advancements in engine technology, including achieving high horsepower per liter and transitioning to turbocharged engines.
13:39: ⚙ Innovative engine design prioritizes efficiency and performance without sacrificing power or fuel economy.
18:15: ⚡ Company confidently expands electric vehicle lineup in North America and Europe.
22:35: ⚙ Transition to electric vehicles requires maintaining brand authenticity while appealing to rational buyers.
26:47: 🚗 Innovative hybrid system introduced in the Ram Charger by surprising viewers with a range extender concept.
31:19: ⚙ Discussion on efficiency and capability trade-offs in electric vehicles for towing and urban driving.
35:28: ⚡ Transition to electric vehicles attracting new buyers and expanding market opportunities.
39:52: ⚙ Comparison of diesel vs. after treatment systems in terms of cost and efficiency for plug-in usage.
44:15: ⚡ Stellantis plans to launch a variety of EVs in the Northern Hemisphere by 2030.
48:54: 🔋 Discussion on the transition to electric vehicles focusing on charging anxiety and range needs.
53:39: ⚙ Flexibility in engine options assured for future Ram models, including BEV and ICE variants.
he's right, price is right rules dictate
Fufu dust - I assume you immediately trademarked that.
Reports say Hemi gets same milage as Hurricane
Currently one tube tanker of H2 will deliver enough to fill 50 - 80 cars.
Maybe fewer work vans.
One tanker of diesel carries the same energy as 18 tube tankers of H2.
Filling nozzles and cells can freeze (the reaction creates water).
Shell has pulled out of H2 public stations.
"Shell to close 1,000 gas stations to focus on EV chargers"
I think the Hurricane it going to be a success.
In my opinion you have to drive an EV. Once you see what it’s like, you will understand. I bought an Tesla EV 5 years 7 months ago, and it’s has been one of the best cars I have ever owned, reliable & low maintenance, if any. I charge at home & use one of the many superchargers stations in route. I know areas like Laughlin & Bullhead needs them if they want further adoption. Many of us go to the river. A person just shouldn’t listen to the FUD out there & continue to recite it. I hard to change one’s behavior once we have become complacent. Change is difficult.
Yup. Takes like 5 minutes to plug your "road trip" routes into A Better Rote Planner and see if it works for your ACTUAL trips.
A comment from my BYD factory friend: "I have a feeling that the US big three car makers except Tesla will not be able to sell their ICE cars anywhere in the world. Except maybe for rich people. Everything I heard was like something we heard 5 years ago in China, it's outdated info based on old data and thinking."
Then he talked about how the Chinese EV's will take over Asia and Africa because electricity is cheaper to produce than gasoline followed by why BYD will have a dozen or so car carrier ships. And, how EV manufacturing in China has reached a point where the prices will start dropping faster.
If America stopped subsidizing Big Oil today, gas prices would be over $12/gallon by tomorrow.
The media does not wanna talk about that
Oil is "subidized" by accounting write-offs that all extraction industries take advantage of. Oil is heavily taxed.
Electric vehicles receive direct tax subsidies because the government thinks the EV companies need more practice to work out the defects. The CPP heavily subsidizes BYD - will destroy Tesla globally.
Government regulations make small fuel efficient unattractive and unprofitable. My 30 year old cars get better fuel economy than most new models. You can't even see out the back of new cars without cameras. The same rules keep low priced EV unprofitable - they can't be subsidized out of the economics trend without erasing tax revenue. New taxes are needed to cover the green subsidizes.
The roads are paved with asphalt, the residue from oil refining. Oil is irreplaceable in sophisticated economies.
Hybrids will improve, if batteries get as good as proponents claim. A horse can pull more than it can carry - that's still not true for electric trucks - can't tow very far, no tax credit can fix that EV defect.
Serial PHEVs are the perfect solution for pick-ups where most driving is around a region on battery only, but there is no problem to tow a trailer when you need.
Better to put the power generator for towing on the trailer... Carrying around an engine capable of moving a 26' horse trailer (the maximum towing capacity for the truck) when you actually only tow a 16' popup camper is silly.
As batteries continue to improve in density and price other than pure BEV solutions make less and less sense. Tesla could build the perfect tow vehicle. But due to batteries and lack of a way to charge it you would not like the price. This will change.
How can anyone say "horsepower per liter" with a straight face? There ought to be a law.
I'm sorry to say this guy is woefully ignorant about what's happening with the pace of advances in electrification technology in his own industry, which is pretty disappointing.
Why is he talking about $70 or $80 cells "might be possible" when CATL and BYD are making LFP cells for $55 / kWh today already (and not stopping there)?
Hydrogen FCEVs are dead in the water. They sold under 1 / 1000 the volume of BEVs in 2023. They need 3x the electricity as BEVs, and always will, which means 3x the "fuel" cost. Shell is pulling out, and shutting down all its hydrogen stations worldwide. The Japanese are still in FCEV only because of the sunk cost fallacy and their senior-can't-be-questioned business culture.
The old idea of the advantage of hydrogen's 5 minute refilling speed has effectively evaporated, since CATL are *today* selling BEV batteries (Shenxing) that recharge in 10 minutes, and the battery industry continues to work to reduce that charge time further. Are commercial fleets really going to pay 3x the fuel cost to save a few minutes per day (when drivers anyway need mandated break times)? Nope.
This guy needs to wake up and get up to speed, or get out. But sadly, his thinking just reflects the backwardness of the legacy auto industry.
Good, it wasn't just me 🤯🤯🤯
Seemed to ignore the importance of EV charging networks. Ionna is years out, so their strategy is to offer every variety of power source. That’s a hedging strategy that’s not going to produce the best in class of anything.
Yea..that was painful to watch. They have not joined Supercharge network yet, only the "NACS" plug. Their customers will have the worst charging availability of all EV in the US. Funny no one asked him about "days on hand inventory" 🤭
I'm 13 minutes in and there is no BEV PHEV or HEV talk.
Bly excellent. Webster, not so much.
I’ve owned two Chevy volts they were decent cars. it’s not all some sunshine and rainbows so I had a battery interconnect failure and it took GM four months to fix it. Now I have a Tesla Model S with 175k flawless miles on the original battery and it’s 11 years old. I’ll never go back to gasoline any sort
28:00 Let me get this straight... batteries are heavy, so Ram is putting a light weight V6 motor and a gas tank? Adding 400lbs to a BEV truck as a generator. The pure battery is 97% efficient, the ICE engine is maybe 27% efficient. This is added complexity just to keep from having to plug it in, increase service, maintenance, and cost?
Yea, I think Tesla ran out of slots to join the Supercharger network and poor Stellantis got left without a charging network 🤣
Stellantis made a very good eevee, Fiat 500e 2014 to 2019, could have done minor upgrades sold it nationally, instead canceled it and sold EVs in Europe
I'm pretty sure Bosch and Magneti Marelli made the first Fiat 500e as a complete afterthought compliance effort. I'm not saying it was bad, but watching a teardown series made my head hurt. It was terribly complex in its thermal mgmt. system.
Prob very expensive too. It's a very good reliable car, needed a little more battery mostly. Maybe couldn't be made cheaply.
Is the short term, is the secret to towing a portable generator to plug into the truck while it drives. Something lightweight? Like the Konnesigg 3 cylinder no camshaft engine?
These are some of the most unreliable cars in the industry.
Gary needs to retire. He hates every change.
Give the automakers only one mandate: grams of toxic pollutants / kg of vehicle. This single metrics will fix all regulation talk. And let them build V8, or hydrogen or PHEV. Whatever they wish, as long as they do not emit max allowed pollutants per kg of vehicle weight per year.
We need to be looking at CO2 for estimated vehicle lifetimes.
He is already obsolete in battery pack cost. "he 173-Ah VDA-spec square cells (148 mm x 26.5 mm x 91 mm) can be fully charged in less than 3o mins and will be sold to several EV manufacturers for an average of RMB 400/kWh (or $US56.47/kWh), according to the report. This represents 50% reduction in price this summer. CATL news.
Hey, is Bly looking for a job after last nights bloodbath?
I’m surprised that the automotive industry hasn’t figured out how to extract energy from the water jackets and exhaust heat from the engines to generate electricity for an electric boost motor.
phev is best of both worlds till battery tech improves enough to match ice refueling times and sustainable battery materials
Arguable PHEVs are the worst of both worlds. If the user plugs in and manages to stay on EV mode (20 miles?) most days just think how far they could have got in a proper EV (250+ miles)?
Or if the PHEV driver regularly exceeds the EV range then their real world mpg will be worse than a half decent ICE.
The main aim for PHEV is to keep making combustion engines, keep service bays going and keep burning oil. Notice none of those objectives benefit the owner/buyer/driver!
I drive a lot in my job. I would REALLY appreciate PU Truck COURTESY Training. Many PU drivers use their egos to navigate through traffic. Please stop training A Holes.
Full BEV adoption is the same as fusion.... It will never happen 😂
Try telling Norway that! The rest of Europe not far behind. Just because NA slowest to adopt doesn’t mean it will never happen. When a product it significantly better and cheaper, adoption will follow. Yes I know the D3 struggle to make them affordable but others can and do.
In our town San Jose (larger than San Franciso) 25% of new cars bought are EVs in 2023 and growing. People here understand EVs are so much better - more power, easier to drive, fun, charge at home, fueling costs 1/3 of gas, almost zero maintenance, no smog tests, and the list goes on and on. It take time and work to overcome the misinformation from the oil industry and dealers who profit greatly from unreliable ICE cars (and all ICE are unreliable in comparison with EVs).
Sorry guys, I’m not buying anything from a foreign owned company. I’m sticking with GM and Ford. 🇺🇸
And Tesla THE most American car!!!
People said that in the 1970’s and 1980’s, then bought millions of Toyotas and Hondas.
Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha……. Chrysler would have disappeared long ago if it hadn’t been bought out by Mercedes, then Fiat, then Peugeot. Just as Chrysler purchased American Motors from Renault.
@@Mpr47276Nope! Chris Farley’s incompetent cousin’s brand owns that position!
Pardon me... yet another semi-useless guest from Stelantis... Noone mentioned about quality.. Ford with all their defects... Chrysler had the crapppiest reputation for quality and all these new technologies.. ?!?! and the prices... ??? In fact their 2006-2008 crew cabs are way HIGHER in price.. since most want to buy these than the new ones ;) !!! some go for 50k-60k ;).. since they are indestructable, or thus they say.. comparing... to new stuff coming out... 1st time when a non-classic will commant APPRECITING prices :)))).. Being in the industry for 25 years.. this guest leaves much to be desired...