Tesla's Cybertruck: A Cringeworthy Masterpiece - AAH 676
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- Опубликовано: 20 дек 2023
- TOPICS:
- Can anyone get past the styling?
- Sales proof, or chart buster?
- Technological masterpiece, or overkill?
- Profit turbocharger, or foolish investment?
PANEL:
- Sandy Munro, Munro & Associates
- Tu Le, Sino Auto Insights
- Joe White, Reuters
- John McElroy, Autoline.tv
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WEBSITE: www.autoline.tv 
Авто/Мото
I think Sandy’s autobiography should be titled “At the End of the Day.”
I heard one time there was a drinking game where they took a shot every time he said “at the end of the day.”
There were no survivors.
@@thedownwardmachinebrilliant.
Make it happen at the end of the day.
And whatnot.
Sandy Munro talking about alotropes of steel. This is the best Autoline afterhours ever.
nah, the Peter DeLorenzo and guy from TTAC was the best AAH :)
Tu Le, Sino is a very bright guy!
I loved his comments :)
Some time ago Munro and Associates offered their cost analysis report of the BMW i3, which they had written some years before, to the public for a negligible sum. I think it was less than $20. I bought one. It sits on my PC desktop. It is an astonishingly detailed piece of work, going down to every fastener and screw. Any automotive company that is not using their expertise in the future of automotive design and build is, in my opinion, cutting off their nose to spite their face. If they are still offering this report for sale, and if you are interested in EV design, I'd encourage you to buy it.
Sandy, I beg to differ on tire wear with an EV. I just replaced tires on our S at 26,900 miles. All the social media that I follow say tires wear faster than ice. Two main reasons. Torque and weight.
"most professional users (Taxi, Bus, Rental) experience similar tyre wear as for ICEVs."
Users' experiences of tyre wear on electric vehicles A survey and interview study, June 2022 Report number: 1126AAffiliation: Swedish National Road and Transport Research Institute.
"Tires on a modern electric car will wear down much slower than in a car with a traditional internal combustion engine. This is due to good traction control. The driver assist systems reduce slipping by utilizing the electric motor's rapid power adjustment. This system is much quicker than in ICE vehicles, where it is based on braking and limiting engine RPM,"
Nokian Tyres
That's been my experience as well, at least on the OEM Michelins. I got 34k on that set.
Torque for certain but really how you drive. I am pretty sure the tires on my wife's car will last longer than the tires on mine!
13:56 "Cybertruck is the BMW i3 of our time"
My ugly REx pumped out its little chest today😂
It's beautiful
@@rp9674 Yes I like the look of it too, think it works better in Europe
@@rp9674You're right. Cybertruck also looked ugly at first glance, until I learned there's a logical reason for it.
Same with i3.
I like products that challenge tradition as long as it's not purely aesthetics.
One of the best RUclips reviews of the i3 swears the interior is BMW's finest, but backs away from calling the exterior ugly, preferring "German pretty". ;)
@@donswier I went thru a phase of hating i3, now I own 1 & love it, I don't like boring cars, most people do
This is such a great episode of Autoline After Hours. You have as guests, Sandy Munro, and two of the nerdiest guys ever.
Great show Guys!
Over two million back orders for Cybertruck and counting at 10,000 new orders every day
Guy from Reuters opens with "I have no idea."
Hallelujah
What a great way for Autoline to close out 2023. Great Show!!
The best show of the year, Regards
Sandy is a legend who I wish were decades younger. We need more Sandy's.
Reuters. Short seller's best buddy.
Calling someone "riff-raff" for backing out of a deal that is no longer $40,000 is a low blow.
That was a great conversation. Thank you.
People don’t get the savings of 48 volt over 12 volt because it’s all about wire cross section area. When we are talking about cutting down high current stuff the savings in wiring metal are huge.
BUT fine wires need better support so expect to see thicker insulation. Aluminum is cheaper and lighter but it’s less flexible. For both we should see see better connectors and locating clips.
I learned more in an hour from this team about the EV industry than listening to all the nonsense blogger hoopla over the last few years. Thanks John.
Brilliant thanks, I think we are living in interesting times....
Speaking of which, I wonder if anti-EV brainwashing and FUD might someday be a topic of this show.
Some people are so passionate about the impossibility of EVs, they can't see the world being transformed before their eyes.
This has to have some implications for automakers.
This needed to be 3 hours long
Wow! That was an amazing show. Awsome information.
That was fantastic, my first time watching. Will definitely tune in again. Thank you to Sino Auto Insights.
Tu Le is the Man! More Tu Le!
🚀🚀🚀 *WOW........ Sandy's in the house!*
The Cybertruck is a trojan horse that carries 48V and Zonal Control with the gigabit ethernet ring instead of a plethora of CAN interfaces running through the vehicle, these will be instrumental in a low cost vehicle. Moreover as TESLA disclosed, in the cybertruck only 1 of the 3 motors in the beast uses a permanent magnet motor so the low cost vehicle will not need expensive rare earth magnets. I am not a Tesla fanboy but it is clear where they are going.
"Rare earth magnets" is a misnomer, they aren't expensive nor rare as they are man made out of plentiful materials like iron and boron and others with cobalt which is being phased out. It's more political because China makes everything including rare earth magnets and the US just doesn't make anything especially as important as magnets. Obviously Tesla is trying to change that. 👀
Nailed it 😉
Why not build a CHEAP SIMPLE EV for short daily commute directly ??? THIS WOULD BE GREAT and useful !
@@ellsworthm.toohey7657They are battery constrained. They will sell like hot cakes, so 4680 battery production needs to hit on all cylinder. Plus, they have to engineer it to be profitable, unlike the GM Bolt that is sold at a loss.
@@Teddy_M85the Chevy Bolt is a SS.
Best Autoline in a long time!
Fun discussion and good info regarding China's state of industry and how they may react to protection policies. The Japanese had another ace up their sleeve in the '80s: 250 yen to the dollar. I also discovered we should never let Sandy near the word martensite, haha!
Very informative!
Another great show with Sandy!
Best after hours in a while. You gotta bring sandy over more often. Finally a show that talks about the future without “journalists/experts” that are stuck in the past. Those who think GM and others will survive no matter what need to learn history… same has been said about Nokia and BlackBerry, not to mention Kodak (which invented the digital camera!). So many people can’t handle the change and are in denial that the automotive world is changing right in front of our eyes. Was great to see open minded people finally talking about those issues.
Sandy dropped prophecy 7 or so years ago here on this show. Interesting times indeed.
Love it. Please part 2
Great show guys, please do it again soon. Such great information. I agree with you guys in every way. The legacy carmakers really are in for a rude awakening if they don't fundamentally change but like Sandy said, changing corporate culture is the hardest thing to do and even if they finally make that decision, it will probably be too little too late for them.
Really looking forward to the continuation to this episode.
Austenitic Stainless Steel is highly corrosion-resistant, ductile, and formable, while Martensitic Stainless Steel is highly wear-resistant, hard, and strong. The choice between the two types of stainless steel depends on the specific application requirements and conditions.
That's not a very useful generalization because austenitic can be turned into martensitic, simply by work hardening and without changing the alloy, while also increasing its corrosion resistance.
@@ZipZoomZip rather than just complaining, why don’t you offer more useful information?
@@rok1475 No one complained, I was trying to be helpful by pointing out that the generalizations you made about the corrosion resistance differences between austenitic and martensitic stainless steel are not necessarily reliable or accurate. It's a complex subject and RUclips comments are not the place to delve into the intricacies of this. Just be aware that it's not as simple as you made it sound.
@@ZipZoomZip how would you characterize your “that’s not very useful generalization” comment?
My comment was not intended to be a lecture on metallurgy but rather a simple explanation of two terms Sandy used. If you think you can do better please post a comment explaining those two terms in a manner you find appropriate for this forum.
"EV demand is dropping" but the model Y is now the best selling vehicle in the world.
Ordered two for my business, as local service trucks. The tonneau cover is perfect for securing tools and instruments. Range is great and we can charge at our shop at very low cost. No oil changes or other regular service. Diesel trucks get about 20 on about $4.00 in fuel. Electrical cost should be about
Hope you have patience.
You should have bought one at launch. You could have got one for 40k dollars US and range of 500 miles. That would be even better
@@jimpackard8059 Cybertruck price did not change. The value of money did.
Why didn't you buy a lightning 2 yrs ago?
@@rjbiker66 Almost did. First of all, it does not have quite enough range for all our routes. And then local dealer was an ass. At first they did not even want to sell one. Then when they had one in inventory they wanted $10K over MSRP.
Best episode in a while. Great show.
Terrific show to finish out the year. Well done guys. Thanks for your great work in 2023.
Great hour🎉
Great discussion!
Great episode. Time well spent. Merry Christmas everyone
The stock rear Goodyear on my 2018 CT6 2.0E plug-in do all the braking and acceleration and have 60k. But that includes 6,000-8,000 miles off the car when snow tires are on. Not sure if insurance company know mine has a 18.4kw li-ion battery but was $300/6-months for full coverage before recent insurance hikes of 25%.
John is so locked in to traditional OEMs he is always pushing fud on evs.. and now he is even buying the lie that there is no ev demand.
People want EVs .. just not the shit being pushed by the big OEMs
When personal computers cost thousands of dollars people didn't want them. When flat screen TV cost thousands of dollars people didn't want them.
EVs will become cheaper to manufacture than similar-feature ICEVs. As competition brings down prices people will snap up EVs.
@@bobwallace9753 EVs COULD BE CHEAP already ! Just make them SIMPLE, just a TOOL for daily commute, short trip.... Currently the infrastructure can't cope with the requirments of these big EVs !
@@ellsworthm.toohey7657 There's only one company that understands this, and came up with a solution. But it recently dawned on Jim Farley, so maybe there's hope. Unfortunately, he doesn't want to build cheap cars.
@@ellsworthm.toohey7657
Given that the cost of EVs is largely driven by the cost of batteries, the only way to make a less expensive EV (aside from downgrades like cardboard door panels, etc.) is to market a low range EV. I'm not sure there's enough market for an EV with a very modest range.
Give it one to two years. China is driving down the cost of EVs and Tesla is about to start construction on factories for less expensive EVs. Tesla should be in the catbird seat as they scale up their 4680 battery production. Those cells should cost considerably less than any other battery on the market.
So, in other words.... They aren't buying EVs. Which is exactly the same as not wanting them, today.
good stuff guy's! ready for go time.. Merry Christmas from the Great State of West Virginia!
I was glad to see Texas Instruments products being used in the automotive industry.
I was surprised at the end that John didn't ask Sandy if the bottle opener was austenitic or martensitic stainless.
Talk to a boiler engineer or better a gas turbine engineer and the metallurgy gets off the page.
That was great.
Great episode!!!
Really good program.
Brilliant convo
Until you can produce on large scale your product can only be a niche product. I doubt Tesla will have any trouble selling them, but production will be very limited. I suspect Toyota is holding back from full EV until new generation batteries are available. Current battery technology is not great - it is 'wow' compared to where we were but a lot of development is still happening because there is a lot of avenues for significant improvement.
Prediction: Model 2 will be 48V
Definitely, because the etherloop is exactly what they will be using in the unboxed assembly technique
Cybertruck is a Trojan horse - not important in itself, but containing the forces to overthrow the old empire.
48V and steer by wire. All these technologies in the Cybertruck will be used in all of Tesla's future cars.
Thti
Many pearls of wisdom here. Very interesting to hear. Thanks.
Great show.
Thanks Joe! Take care
I want one!
Interesting to listen to the non-Sandy folks here and think back to when this channel was laughing at Tesla in 2017-19. The worm really turned with some time and success.
I'm at 35k miles on my Model Y, and my tire tread is at 6/32 - 7/32. Can i go 20k more miles? I sure can
My wife had a Mercedes AMG and she had to have tires replaced at 8k miles. High performance ICE cars eat through tires equally.
Excellent show- would like to have heard more about Sandy's factory discoveries - what most surprised & impressed him & why - on to part deux!
BYD class 8s are already hear. GE uses them. Tesla's tractors are way way better but BYD is already in the market.
Good ahow. AAH needs to keep bringing guests like these who are truly knowledgeable and technical. The usual Detroit dinosaur journalists provide no useful insights and typically have no idea what's really going on.
It's just not very organized but that's probably by plan.
Great stuff!! Enjoy your time off and Happy Holidays!
The CT orders are at 10K per day. That's the ball game.
48V was proposed by GM together with a flywheel integrated alternator/starter motor and electric fans and pumps back in the 1980s. It never happened.
Because it was never cost effective to throw out the compatibility with other manufacturers. It's expensive when your suppliers have to make everything special for you. Tesla is about to find that out. GM and Toyota looked at 48V when hybrids were popular for the same reasons. They ended up with the AC compressor and high power items on the 48V battery circuit, and everything else still wasn't cost effective so they left it at 12V. Not to mention, all of the computers run at 5V or 3.3V, and your DC to DC converters are more expensive dropping from 48V than dropping from 12V.
Thank you for the consistent quality! Respect 👍
Wow!!!
Knowledge bombs
All over the place
Great show!!!
Excellent discussion!!!;)
Yes.
The insurance is so high on the Tesla because so many people find out the hard way how fast the car will stop on the freeway
Great commercial for Tesla!
(cybertruck is a superstar )
Autoline has reluctant admiration for Tesla and the transition to EV. John McIlroy had a road to Damascus revelation some time ago, but he’s still a Detroit car guy through and through, he just sees which way the wind is blowing.
@@commuterbranchline8132(electric is superior being vehicle )
After 11000 miles on my Model Y the tires look new as do the brakes
Maravilha muito esclarecedor conhecimento e vida nos liberta sucesso boas festas muita luz
Maybe time to Update the cameras. Little bit like watching tv in 1990.
lol I was just checking my fuel savings on my 2017 Model S through my app $2500 US for the last 11 months so $19k saving in seven years. Yes the early tires wore quick but guess what tire manufactures improved the tires for the heavier EV's and now I get same tire wear as I did pre EV days.
My Tesla insurance is $37/ month. Tesla insurance is awesome!
Bless this show
Good show, Tesla is still pushing ahead in Technology while the rest are still trying make the old systems work.
…With futile devotion
I'm gonna challenge the notion that Tesla has wired their speakers to be driven via the gigabit ethernet signal. Sure, you could power a CAN transceiver, DAC, and amp at every speaker, but how is that a savings? Plus, quality audio power amps don't fit on speaker housings. Will someone please challenge this assertion that the Cybertruck speakers are all only connected to 48V power, ground, and a CAN bus. This generalization that 48V plus gigabit CAN system powers everything including the speakers is bogus. Imagine the imaging problems you'd create with trying to time over a dozen distributed DACs?
I have no idea, but the speakers could have a voltage converter on each of them like they do in resraurants, malls, buildings etc.
My guess is they will combine the window regulator and speaker. Or move the speakers into the dash
When you are powering a single speaker you don't need a powerful amp the only speakers that need any serious power are your bass\subs. When you know that you have the datarate and use all the same DACs timing is easy you only have issues if you are trying to make it work with limited through put. In software adding micro seconds of delay is easy rember that in a Tesla it is the main computer talking to the speakers not headunit>amp>speakers
@@jackdbur- but let's see the proof that this is the length that Tesla went to to eliminate unnecessary wiring and replaced it with stupid increased redundant additional chips /circuits/bespoke powered speakers. Munro talks out his ass a lot, and no one actually challenges him when he speculates way beyond his understanding. Yes, Sandy Munro BSs as badly as Elon does. Let's stop that irresponsible shooting off of the mouth.
@@karlInSanDiego You can run one 48V wire into the door to run the locks, switches, sensors, windows, and speaker. Then the 'net sends commands and data, and on the speaker you have a DAC and DSP that corrects the response of the (cheap) speaker, then a Class D amp powers it. Not rocket surgery.
Tesla insurance is half of most insurance companies
In Va they were expensive about 2 years ago. Now they are very competitive.
It was only going to save me like $30/mo when I checked a few weeks ago. I'd lose my home+auto discount if I switched, which is more than that savings.
Whenever Sandy's on, there's really no need for other guests😂
😂 Especially in this topic
Enthusiasm.
He knows a lot about manufacturing but it's not that strong another areas.
There is little point in being agile if you dont have a plan.
The 2 aren't opposits. The point is to keep one eye on the horizon instead of both pf them on your feet.
More please.
58:13 100 years plan is for things that don't change in 100 years like low price, excellent quality, etc. GM Ultium battery is not one.
Rum and coke. After hours.. kickin' it
they told you they were going to be the leader in mfr tech over 5 years ago
last time I looked at a 18 wheeler, dump truck and a bus they looked VERY heavy and they had rubber tires!
WOW, GOOD VIDEO., CYBERTRK 2025.
Haters will be haters, show me any other vehicle that has 2 million deposit pre orders. I'll wait
pre-orders are a meaningless metric when it comes to market and costs 50% more with 40% lower specs.
We don't know that BYD is making profit on EVs, they make profit overall, not a lot, but they produce an awful lot of PHEVs, so the PHEVs may be subsidising their BEVs. The ONLY company which we KNOW is making profit making EVs is TESLA
True, but BYD is brute forcing their way in. They're getting their production capacity up and their market share built out DESPITE slim margins. They're gonna be a major contender, unless perhaps if Tesla solves FSD with the next gen form factor and gobbles up the entire industry worldwide.
43:00 It's **2023 por dios**, and software with any perceptible lag should absolutely **not** be acceptable.
Autoline Network team another great year with your awesome podcast and daily episodes , can't wait for next year to hear more from you. Greetings from sLOVEnia 😊❤❤
Enjoy your holidays Merry Christmas and Happy New Year 🎉🍷🎉
Never tire of Sandy Interviews, the whole panel was great
i have an electric car...no, i have a tesla - a smart phone on wheels. It's very different than an 'electric car' and that's what the big 3/VW, etc are not comprehending, it's why they're having trouble selling CARS - tesla is selling a very different item.
Like the first iPhone - it's a phone - NO, it's so much more/different/advanced than a 'phone'. And those that didn't catch on - blackberry/nokia/motorola are not in the business anymore
I have a tesla... it's an electric car & full self driving human killing machine.
I would never compare Tesla to Apple its like comparing Apple to Oranges. I wonder if in the distance future will we be going to 96 volts?
fuck it, straight to main pack voltage
Great show. Exciting to listen.
John McElroy said of the big Chinese EV producers at the 53-minute time mark, that Chinese government will prop them up even if their losing money. I swapped the word Chinese for U.S. and realized the same statement is true. Except for Sandy, these guys seem anchored to legacy auto.
So true!
Tesla will sell as many Cybertrucks as they can make as fast as they can make them. The difficulty of the ramp will determine the speed of deployment. I miss Corey Steuben with Sandy, they were a great team.
Sandy said something happened st Munro
Corey went to Lucid. Like Sandy he is a cornucopia of automotive engineering knowledge and probably wanted to make his mark in the automotive manufacturing space.
He’s a director at Lucid
@@HilaLeftMe I know, I thought he meant something else happened
I'm very pleased for him great stuff.
BYD is definitely gonna swoop in, wether it be on their own or under a Trojan horse. Checkers vs chess is exactly right. They are ready to take the money of those that want to save it. 2025 will be an interesting turn in the auto industry.
Buy cheap... buy twice.
Rear steering has been around for 40 yrs
Eventually John will wake up. Great show guys!
I assume John is the white haired dude. He's so clueless about the change. GM doing a good strategic job? Hahaha