Can Monkey Kungfu Work In The Ring? Li Shun Gen Tests Hou Quan
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- Опубликовано: 31 май 2024
- Probably the most innovative and formidable kungfu/JKD practitioner in China comes back with more tests of the various styles of kungfu that he experiments with. In this three clip analysis, we look at Li Shun Gen trying out Monkey Kungfu (Hou Quan) in a sparring context, a ring context, and a defense-only context. Li Shun Gen continues to inspire us all with his embracing of pressure-testing but also his ability to look at existing kungfu and make it work.
Li Shun Gen's channel is not too easy to find if you don't know Chinese, so I will show you guys how to find it in the pinned comments!
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Timecodes:
0:00 In sparring
0:55 Slower motion analysis
2:25 Monkey Kungfu vs Tai Chi
4:36 Slower motion analysis
7:18 Testing his defense 
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李顺根老师，有时间我们做个采访。我们在油管上都很欣赏您的传武测试。Everyone, if you want more Li Shun Gen, I will try to get in touch with him.
Omg that is Chinese name of RUclips lol. I was wondering what is oil pipe means lol
@@kidd32888 Yep. Now you know ;) Such an unflattering name too ;)
I’d like more of him. Really intriguing stuff. The next thing I want to figure out is if most or all of this stuff is actually found in the monkey style forms themselves. I think the answer is yes, but I don’t actually know for sure.
yes please this guy is epic
Yes pls
What i like is this guy calls himself a hobbyist Instead of a master even though he's better than most of the fake masters
Dunning Krueger effect
@@jacksonbrown1830yeah
Exactly!! He is actually managing to use moves and stances from the forms when fighting lol
It isn't like all of those moves are meant to be used like that, but he's doing it anyways!
@@jacksonbrown1830 I think that the qualification to be a "master" is worthless and is just a matter of doing the stretches and forms nonsense for 60 years, rather than doing any fighting.
Tbf if you use a style and spar with it and adapt it, it will eventually become a viable combat style because you will figure out what works and how to make it work, and discard what is useless
i love that China has all these martial arts fights in the middle of a shopping mall in the middle of the day
This guy is always having fun, wether he is sparring or fighting, I think that's commendable. His usage of monkey kung fu mirrors in some ways what I have been able to learn and apply, and as always, you can get better results when you properly mix it with some more conventional techniques. In my experience, the philly shell-like guard monkey has is the one thing you can keep up most of the time without exposing yourself to a dire counter technique. But you are supposed to turn the monkey on and off, you can't fight the whole time like you are doing the mimic form (no surprise there).
The monkey is supposed to be an unpredictable trickster, an animal that's skilled at making humans let their guard down to then lash out in wild, nasty fashion.
You translate that to fighting by fighting like a human, but letting the monkey out here and there. When you watch monkeys fight in the wild, their fights are carried in short bursts of intense violence, they go from 0 to 100 as fast as they go from 100 to 0. You let your oponent think you are a regular kickboxer, a human, then you let the monkey out, maul him and then call it back in.
All of that theorical, esoteric stuff just means "set a pace, then change it up to throw your oponent off". I think anybody from any style can see how that's usefull for fighting.
Finally I agree with your point that if your kung fu only looks like kick boxing, what's the point of calling it kung fu and not just kickboxing. There's a fine line to walk there, you can't discard what's simple and effective for every martial art in existence, but you also can't discard what makes your style distinct, or else why practice it all.
I think another value to practicing something a bit esoteric is the fact that your opponent may struggle if they haven't people who fight differently and are able to use their techniques effectively. I mean, that is why in the beginning, strikers had trouble with wrestlers, they just weren't used to be grabbed, and if the wrestler could get a handle on the striker the grappler tended to win, at least anecdotally speaking.
@@thejinn99 Completely agree. I have used my kung fu techniques while sparring with mma practitioners and kickboxers, and they work fine, even against people that are way above my level of skill, I can get them with a few techniques before being beat up, because they plain simply do not expect such things.
@@kevinlobos5519 Just be careful trying esoteric stuff on Muay Thai guys. They just keep moving forward if they see you do stuff, especially stuff that involves drastic level changes. ;)
@@FightCommentary I agree, I wouldn't go as far as punching the foot like our guy here, that was all kinds of wrong lol. Just like you have mentioned in the video, if you are going that low and that close, you may aswell attempt a takedown.
You are right about the switching on and off, I used to throw a few scissor kicks (inspired by Cung Le) and sweeps in the old days during my sparring, it does work. It gives the opponent an element of surprise when they can't figure out what you are going to do next.
The Muay Thai Guy was curious. He was like "Im not even mad. What else you got?".
Fun to watch these guys giving it an honest try. I wonder if Monkey style intends the leg punches to instead be leg grabs or ankle picks. I've definitely seen chimps pull or trip each other's legs out from underneath...
leg jabbing can be done with a low lead hand, Benson Henderson used it against Nate Diaz in their UFC fight, basically you jab at their lead leg a couple of times if they're heavy on their front leg, then once they're conditioned to it you look low and then pop the jab up to their face from a low stance, ideally you'll get them trying to shift their leg out of the way and hit them when they're off balance
More Li Shun Gen please. This guy’s great
Tai chi guy looked like he was straight out of a kung fu movie. That was clean. I want to see more of him lol
Li Shun Gen is my favorite Kung Fu hobbyist!
condition would make a big differences in using Monkey Fist. The leg sweep technique in 1st light sparring video could work if he gets enough leg and waist twist speed and power behind it, as well as the distance.
The 2nd one we can see that Li got really tired at the end due to lack of proper conditioning. His Tai Chi opponent still have some powers left.
Not sure about effectiveness of some of these techniques but it looks dope.
Well, Kung Fu was more about grappling (Trapping itself is a way of grappling but with some striking involved) so those punches that he throws at the legs are probably meant to be used as takedowns (like a single leg or something) and when he attacks with his legs from the ground position, he is supposed to be aiming for leg entaglement techniques. Most things aboyt Kung Fu are meant to be used as grappling entries, when you look at them that way, Kung Fu suddently looks very formidable
Comment 19 on video catching up
So glad to see my favorite Kung Fu Guy back again, him using Monkey Kung Fu is so fun to watch.
Also who is that Tai Chi Guy, he looks awesome 😄🥊.
I would call this, at least the first match, light sparring. Monkey Kung Fu guy would have gotten mauled if the other guy was serious. All the Tai Chi guy had to do was grapple with him if that's part of his skill set.
Nah. You should train instead
@@angelloakira Who said I didn't?
@@Haboogie your comments lack of awareness for other martial arts. If your u really trained. Idk man idk. You be more open minded. I've met all sorts of martial artist training. And sparring. And enough to know. It's not the art. It's the guy behind it.
@@angelloakirayeah a lot of weird techniques will work a lot of the time just because people haven't seen it before, and if something catches you by surprise it could actually do considerably damage.
@@angelloakira If you were watching the footage, you could see that the other guy wasn't going too hard and it was only one round. It's because I have trained with pressure testing that I could see that.
Oh ! This man is the guy with the monk 'ao ba' ba the other day . He's a entertainer my friend . The shirt with the cut up line to the waist that is .
Great video!
Glad you enjoyed it
Monkey vs taijiquan was really cool.
now if that monkey kung fu utilized BJJ we got something. We can see there are some natural movements in the beginning where it seems like a precursor to some inversion/imanari roll techniques...
I mean it makes sense, a lot of animal movements are naturally very effective. Jamie queue up Joe Rogan narrating Bear wrestling.
There is actually a bit of ground fighting in some Kung fu styles often using the legs to sweep or as you mention iminari roll. Unfortunately it got taught less in favour of standup. Its also just taught In forms without understanding application
Add in Louhan, Drunken Boxing, and Southern Dog Style - Dog is a ground style.
HAHAHA its very fun to watch i love it!
Awesome!
I remember a team of Five (Chinese) 'Tai Shing Pekwar' (Monkey Kung Fu) beat a (Thai) team of Muay Thai boxers in Hong Kong, way back in the 70's. They fought in a Ring.
Can you imagine getting knocked out by someone practicing this fighting style?! Lol 😂
Some would consider it an honor ;)
This style looks like something Tony Ferguson would do.
It's interesting because turning your back cuts off a lot of targets, but usually a ref wouldn't allow it because it's impeding on the fight. Often a foul or considered quitting.
Sparing enough will make styles viable, unorthodox is great as long as you spar with resisting opponents, you will find what is useful and useless and adapt what needs adapting to fit an actual fight
So, at around 0:56 or so, where he kind of looks like he was mid-bowl, then he steps back, then steps back into bowling stance, I feel like that could work practically. The problem is that the bowling stance looks hella unstable. All that weight is on the front leg and a simple side kick could topple him over.
Now, versus the Taichi guy, at one point, he looked like he had an opportunity to do an arm bar. Maybe if this style is coupled with some Jiu Jitsu, I think this is a viable fighting style. ... Then further down, there was an opportunity to do an ankle lock. Very interesting! But... I don't know if it'll last against an extremely aggressive attacker. I'd like to see him apply this with a bit more pressure.
I think what Li used in the last session of this video is the 'Bong Sau', which can be seen in Wing Chun and Hung Quan.
As far as I am aware, kicking up into the air to hit a standing opponent from the ground in mma is illegal, but I absolutely think that it should be allowed and it would open up a whole new way to bring open guard back into the sport because it would have strikes, sweeps, and submissions altogether.
Not to mention this type of striking from the ground and a few sweeps are a key part of “dog fist” kung fu.
I think they do allow up kicks
@@badart3204 Yes, I just checked the rules again. For UFC up kicks are generally allowed but up kicks cannot be done to the head of a grounded fighter. So you cannot heel kick someone in the face from open guard if they have a knee on the ground. This kind of limits the effectiveness of the open guard because those same kicks thrown to the body won’t do much.
I had a LITTLE exposure to a monkey style thru a Choy Li Fut instructor . Not the form ,which i found to be a bit TOO monkey-ish , but some of the techniques . There was a lot of rapping type downward strikes with the knuckles and of course hammer fists . You'd target the opponents limbs a lot , stuff that wouldn't translate very well with gloves so I'm guessing the man is practicing some of that even though it wouldn't get results in this setting .
Tai Ci originally is a thought. 'Tai Ci Quan' comes from a book's name 太極拳經 (Tai Ci Quan jīng, 'Tai Ci Fist Scripture'), which uses the idea of Tai Ci to approach Kung Fu.
Most styles of Kung Fu when you put on those boxing gloves you're already at a disadvantage, unless you use the type of gloves that allow you to use your fingers.
There is a lot of power that is gone right there.
The rules also restrict you being able to utilize all the moves such as grounding attacks. How do you finish it off in 10 seconds unless your opponent is already on the way to passing out.
exactly..kung fu isnt meant for ring fighting or sparring
@@fazares Some moves are effective for street combat and self defense but not combat sports.
And some moves are only effective for combat sports and not street fighting due to rule restrictions.
Also they really need to change the way they train, none of their sparring partners will go full out all guns blazing for fear of hitting your training partner which of course makes it unrealistic. If Kung Fu fighters trained like Shaolin Monks they could fare much better in MMA. Not sure of UFC rules.
That monkey kung fu style is open to a strong nut kick when he goes backwards. That would hurt.
I like it.
From what I have seen, there's a lot of distance control, angles and limb attacks in Monkey Style. I can be effective but probably takes a lot of cardio and flexibility. Without the "monkey" imitation between strikes, it would have a peek-a-boo boxing feel to it. Real monkeys tend to target the crown jewels... 😁 🐒
Love Monkey Kung Fu. My favourite film is Snake in the Monkeys Shadow. ❤️
That monkey stuff certainly looks nice. But in a hard sparring session he'd be crushed so quickly, conditioning or not. Just crouching that low makes him open to good roundhouse kicks to his head and back.
Funny that you mentioned Capoeira. I was thinking just that before you mentioned Capoeira, that the Monkey Kung Fu guy looked like he was learning his first steps at Capoeira.
Yeah, one day (maybe next week) I'll finally show that one Monkey kungfu move that could work from a capoeira negativa. I keep procrastinating because I don't usually enjoy filming myself, but since I keep promising this, I will make an exception and get it on camera.
Sometimes messing with your opponent's head can give you so much of an advantage. They even do that in Muay Thai, you look at the opponent's leg, he thinks you're gonna low kick, then suddenly you kick him in the head.
"this guy used to be a chef!" 🤣🤣🤣
Those leg punches could have been an ankle pick
Credit to the Tai Chi guy
I think that punch at the leg is really ment for the groin. Monkey steal the peach 🍑.
Interesting thing I noticed here is turning his back to his enemy is kinda protecting his organs in a way. A punch to the back doesn’t hurt as much as a punch to the stomach.
Unless to the kidneys 😘
what's interesting about monkey style is the disengages and various ground and pounds .
this is really great. it makes you wonder what kung fu fighters would be capable of if they actually tried to use kung fu instead of trying to imitate kickboxing
Agreed - 99% of the time kung fu fighters are bad kick boxers !
@@nickdadonyeah
Yeah. Kung Fu is the way it is because it worked for people of the past that were good at using it.
Kung Fu is just practiced badly nowdays
it would heavily depend on their physical/athletic conditioning as well. if they were all trained physically/athletically as a Shaolin monk or even an advanced sport fighter you’d probably see way better results in what theyd be able to pull off
You say that, but kickboxing comes from Karate, which itself comes from some form of chinese martial art, and clearly there are big differences between these. Then you have muay thai and other forms of "kickboxing" kind of martial arts that have different histories. You can also see the same thing with Koryu Jujutsu -> Judo -> BJJ.
I think that is just how kung-fu looks when its to be practical and all the other nonsense is just how it evolved with no competition or actual fighting. BTW if you look at old footage of boxing matches, they are noticeably different from modern boxing, so it can be seen that the timescale for "evolution" of a martial art is very short.
monkey-style desperately needs to adopt Jeff Glover’s donkey guard attacks. It’s just so perfectly set up for Glover-esque jiujitsu
If I can get in touch with Li Shun Gen, I'll send him videos on the donkey guard. If he uses that, plus the Capoeira donkey kick, he can be very very deceptive when turning his back. On the heavy bag, the only fancy kick I'm able to do is is the capoeira donkey kick. The martelo de chao, the meia lua de compasso, even spinning chapas (push kicks) need so much distance management and timing. The capoeira donkey kick will hit the target and do destruction on it, and it's risk of hurting yourself is small (just don't fall on your head when upside down, of course).
@@FightCommentary that'd be awesome. Even most jiujitsu guys aren't experienced with donkey guard (outside of guys just joking around I don't think I've ever encountered it IRL) and it seems like he is pretty interested in doing some weird Iminari-roll-esque takedowns too, so it might be a match made in heaven. And I can totally see some of that capoeirista movement happening as well. It would be SUPER interesting if he could make that weird stance work to his advantage.
Yeah the Taijiquan guy is awesome
Works well when hands r conditioned enough to have a death grip on leg joints or hard enough to punch legs and damage them
Dog, Monkey, Drunken and Ground dragon I would classify as Ditangquan. Ground tumbling style. Acrobatic kicks + Ground fighting./grappling. Capoeira is similar
How about master monkey kungfu Jiang Yu Shan? maybe we can see another perspective of monkey style
cool matches eheh
Look at JiangYuShan for Monkey fist.
Li Shun Gen is in great shape.
Yep, esp for his mid 40s.
I want to see him in one championship against Muay Thai fighters
More Tai Chi guy please? 😲
Capoeira next please. :). (Wrote that before you just said Capoeira-esque lol)
On it!
What people dont understand who never practice monkey Kung Fu is that we don't scratch our head for guard its too confuse our enemy we do this monkey movements too confuse some one just think of what were doing as a feint we do this movements too make our enemy confuse and hard for them too read our intentions and we can do those silly moves too also open you up like a feint for a offensive attack
He only seems like he’s not a paper Thai Chi guy because he fighting this guy lol. It was somewhat interesting to see someone using something different, but it’s obvious he gas bad fundamentals. Toe punches might be a funny option to style on people though.
Do a vid on Jiang Yu Shan plz
Tell me more!
this stuff is cool as f***
The monkey king spirit was elsewhere in this sparring match.
I wanna see more of the monkey master
On it!
Any style with some odd feature like monkey or drunken style may baffle the average practitioner. But to experienced Or professional MMA fighters, they will figure out a solution quickly. Having said that, Pena list to Nunes in the 2nd fight just because Nunes decided to fight southpaw and Pena did not have an answer with just switching side
With adaptation bring this kind of old style to modern competition is possible
Does he tries to hit groin all the time
The taichi guy is good
if the monkey style practitioner put more power to his style...but may be, because this was a light sparring.
I don't think anything he's doing is a waste of energy, he's experimenting hard and taking notes, I quite like Li Shun Gen . He punched the ground just to go _full monkey_ .
Monkey style works on the rare occasion that it employs standard fighting techniques.
That's an elder monkey master.
He bow instead of squat.
30 years old is grandpa for monkey style.
It's hard on legs.
Impressed… it would only take 2 - 3 business days for monkey man to hurt his opponent..
Ouch..
"Chineses making monkey dumb tricks!" (Free translation from a Brazilian expression)
Thats super fun!
Get up with the guy that’s the keeper of the Monkey fist Door.
My understanding of Monkey is this. A good boxer can box when he is standing on his two feet. Now can that same boxer fight flat on his back? Money style is supposed to get their opponent on the ground first. Then from there, throw punches and kicks. It's a ground fighting system.
That’s super interesting! If you have any footage, please send me.
@@FightCommentary I don't remember. You can start looking now. Search Monkey Style on youtube. One of the Monkey style fighting teachers says so. Monkey Style is supposed to be a ground and pound fighting system. Which is how a monkey fights.
With stance like that
It's easiest way to literally get your ass kicked 😂😂😂
When Kung Fu looks like kickboxing is for a few reasons. That's the rules or the kung fu master doesn't know how to make the forms applicable and last they do Morden wushu and train Sanda for the fighting side .
:S this makes me sad isn't JKD about getting from A to B using the least amount of wasted energy possible and fastest travel trajectory (straight line)?
He does all the opposite, unnecessary moves, I get it they are fun sparring I guess... but I don't think this would work, he would be gas'd in no time right?
I don't mean to sound like an expert, cus I'm not, just curious.
It's entertaining tho... the simulation of a tail with his hand I find that funny lol
Is he a king fu master?
Hobbyist
That thai boxer is one hundred years old.
😅
Why do I think that Muay Thai guy is fake or got paid so that he didn't hurt the Kung Fu guy.
I don't know but this looks really ridiculous. He must be thinking he's in a movie.
is it against the rules to kick someone on the back? I don't like how monkey guy exposes his back.
The blind leading the blind or in this case vs lmao
HOO FLUNG POO
Lots of sausage punches.
Why doesn't western boxing speedball and skipping rope show up in the ring? 😤
I'm tellin' ya! Try that speedball move in UFC and any western boxer will get floored! 😤🤭
😂🙊🙊
the more brutal is Chimpanze, Orang Utan, Gorilla and Baboon. I dont think any MMA Style capable of defeating them.
😂😂😂😂😂😂
🐵🐒
😂
規則保護對手.否則對手生殖器早就爆了.
He definitely has to incorporate monkey steals peach into his next match
What did i just watch?
This is the correct response
Hahaha schöner Spaß aber ernst nehmen kann man den Typ nicht
I would be considered a master of the style I created. Right.
Donkey Style - The Art of Making an Ass of Myself.
There's better monkey kungfu than this. It could work.
Man in red absolute joke thing
thats not kung fu monkey style
He thinks he's cool..
Sorry buy any decent MMA or Muay Thai fighter would knock these clowns out in less tha a round.
Monkey Kung Fu will not work against anyone. Lol!
ANYONE? Lol
What about against monkeys?
@@youtubeaccount3704,
Yes. Lol!
@@dojanglesclimb,
Use Snake Kung Fu. Lol!
@@lionsden4563 not just monkey kung the entire kung fu is a joke. muay thai mma boxing are the real deal when it comes to fight