I did a few styles of karate when I was in college/grad school (I always had to change because the next university invariably had a different style) and a couple years of TKD at one of the universities. Although a style of TKD I'd call ITF-esque (maybe it was ITF, I didn't know enough at the time to even think about there being more than one style of TKD), I could definitely feel a big punching gap between karate and TKD. Karate spends so much time practicing reverse punches (gyaku zuki), stepping punches (oi zuki), and punch-kick combinations (insert Japanese word here), whereas in the rare instance there was punching in TKD, it was to chest pads (we didn't have pads in karate) and it was almost more like a way of pushing someone away. Punching felt very much like an afterthought. That said, I'd actually suggest that most people study TKD over karate, or really most martial arts. TKD is such a fun, mobile, active style. It's one of the most fun to just work on your kicks on a bag or focus pads and sparring, in my limited experience, was actually very frequent (albeit unrealistic), and fun is by far the most important factor in choosing a style since 99.999% of people doing martial arts will never have a career in combat sports or successfully use their martial art in self-defense anyway.
I would definitely not suggest people train tkd rather than karate or boxing if you have any goals rather than an Olympic medal while being able to be beaten up by a local grandma.
@@monarch1651 I prefer karate personally. I prefer the pedagogy of Japanese styles broadly, the emphasis on absolute technical perfection is something I found to be very helpful compared to both TKD and BJJ, and I have a bias for punching because, as it turned out, I wasn't a particularly good kicker. But when I'm alone in the garage with the heavy bag, I just want to do awesome jump kicks and spinning hook kicks and tornado kicks (even if I'm not good at them). TKD has such an addictive quality to it. But that's for me personally. In my opinion, people should do martial arts primarily because they find it fun, and I think that most people will find TKD to be more fun than karate. I think a certain kind of person (namely me) also finds BJJ really fun because of the game-like quality that rolling has every class, but I find that most people just aren't up to the soul-crushing reality of getting tapped out 15 times a night the first year they take it up.
I think adding TKD on top of your primary martial art benefits the practitioner because of the high level of body coordination that's required in TKD, it gets you more familiar with yourself and your abilities because hell, if you can 540 hook kick you can most definitely low kick.
One problem with the TKD guys is that they never seem to want to use their simpler kicks. It would help them a bit in situations like these where they're being walked down. More kicks, and more volume to keep them off you. Kyokushin guys advance like a mean turtle and just start punching the fuck out of your body. The TKD guys are being smothered by that forward march. Their kicks are being neutralized because they're trying too hard to hit with fancy spinkicks. My only advice to the TKD guys is to blast away with simple kicks and oblique kicks. Save the fancy stuff for an opening.
A TKD instructor I know boasted how TKD has the most diverse collection of kicks in martial arts. I don't like that, would rather have a smaller set of tools I could train to great proficiency, than a wide range of tools and a lot of them being useless.
@jackreacher4489 I agree that simplicity can be a strength, but I also feel that having a well developed arsenal is worth the time. The kicks in TKD are devastating when used by someone with fighting experience outside traditional McDojos and their idiotic training methods. Take a look at some kickboxers with a TKD background. They are absolute killers with it, but that's because they know how to judge distance, timing, and opportunity. Most of the guys we see here are incompetent fighters who've only sparred in their own styles, if at all. In this case, I blame them for misusing the techniques and their stupid instructors for being martial arts parrots instead of innovators. Anyone who thinks a style is complete without a grappling component or leg kicks is delusional. Same goes for punching and ground game. People just repeat the shit their master taught them without thinking.
@@justinwallace269 I agree with you. I did karate for a while, it was really fun, and I learned the first four heian kata. I do them on occasion, when I have no one to train with, but I don't want to devote so much time into learning 20+ kata when my time could be better spent on other things. Still, I'd rather devote my time to mastering 10 kicks that are proven, and might slightly verge to flashy, than a bunch of flashy kicks that have no chance to work in sparring or self defense.
@jackreacher4489 That makes sense. I feel the same way when it comes to dabbling in too many styles. I'd rather only learn a few that cover the bases and just get really good at the necessary parts of them. I'd totally ditch katas in favor of more time spent on shadow boxing and sparring. I don't know about Karate katas, but TKD katas made absolutely no sense. They were basically unrelated dance moves with no connection to what we were doing. TKD is one of those styles you can learn in a week and get good at in a month. The dojang training itself is extremely outdated and doesn't properly prepare someone for a fight. It just stretches out its usefulness to make more money off you. My only interest is in learning what's practical or at least fun.
@@justinwallace269 I recommend you check out the book The Killing Art: History of Taekwon do. It goes into detail how the founders trained Japanese martial arts, most of them in Shotokan, and wanted to create something Korean. At the time they were quite innovative, most modern kicks we see in combat sports came from them, but unfortunately it was dumbed down a lot after the Vietnam war because people didn't want to do the hard training. Another problem stems from the founder, General Cho, wanting it to differ from karate as much as possible that he deliberately made some of the dumbest changes to techniques, just to make them appear different. Old school TKD is a beast, punches to the head, low kicks, throws, trips, joint locks, chokes, and weapons. Unfortunately there are maybe a dozen dojang in the world that still teach it, and I have no clue where they are.
Bruh, Tkd guy here and who ever told these guys that fighting kyokushin guys at their own game was a good idea is terrible person. They literally just batter each others bodies constantly for training. Plus kyokushin leg kicks may even be slightly better than Muay thai. Like these fights just straight up arent fair lol
@@myhandlehasbeenmishandled I kind of had the opposite feeling. When I was just beginning college kata drove me insane, but 4 or 5 years later they really grew on me. I’m still unconvinced that they’re a useful training tool, but I did find them eventually enjoyable, almost meditative.
It's a shame how much modern karate emphasizes kata, when all the old masters knew maybe 3. The rest of their time was spent on actually drilling techniques. Karate could easily rival muay thai if they spent more time on pads, partner work, sparring... Look at kyokushin and it's offshoots, very respected by the Thais.
@@jackreacher4488yeah exactly the old masters would master a small number of kata to the point where they were excellent training tools to sharpen technique as well as pass on technique
I practiced Kyokushin for over 15 years. Some rules: Do not start with "big techniques" - start with small ones. Keep the "Kyokushin stance". Be tough to receive full=force punches and kicks. Again: do not be a fool and use big techniques without preparation: your opponent is smart, too, and can see them coming... Btw, Bruce Lee said once that the one who is a better puncher would win in a fight...
First striking art my parent's enrolled me in was kyokushin( my first martial art was judo as a little kid) in the 1970s under a student of Mas Oyama.....i was a skinny little kid and crawled out of evey class wondering why my parents sent me there ...it was brutal Karate was still karate in the 70s, it was full contact and you got hurt first class. Discovered TCMA later....ahhh at last kids my size.
Gotta say, the TKD guys at least look like their strikes have some impact compared to most flappy tappy strikes you see from tkd guys on this channel! Hard to beat Kyokushin pressure and conditioning though
Even your more limited arts like TKD use to have balls. A lot of old clips like this showcase TKD dudes and Shotokan dudes being pretty damn scrappy. Yeah the technique is limited in scope but they had balls.
How to tell TKD styles by uniform: Sport TKD has a light pull-over v-neck top with a logo at the bottom of the V. ITF also has pullover top but looks sort of like over lapping lapels found on karate gi and is medium weight cloth.. ITF black belt will have stripes along length of arm and leg. Traditional TKD do bok will be the same a karate gi, a heavy weight material with front overlapping top with side ties. Stripes will be a long lapel, and bottom of top, some times around cuffs of arms and legs. Style differences depend on linages. May have trained in different TKD styles, and all have punches, throws, locks, pressure points in forms, however sparing: WT sport TKD does not allow punching to head, strikes below the belt, blocking with the knee, more than three kicks without putting foot down, no knees or elbows or grabbing, full contact no stopping 3 rounds. Points: punch 1, kick to body 2, kick to head 3, spinning kick +1. Designed to look good for Olympics. ITF sparring: touch or full contact. Kicking and punching above belt, no knees or elbows. Looks like kick boxing, or point karate. Traditional TKD: depends on the Kwan (family style) of it's lineage. It may look like Shotokon, kung fu, jujitsu, yudo (judo) Tae Kyeon (2000 yr old korean kicking / throwing art. Sparring is usually point with touch contact like ITF but often allows low kicks and throws. You will see traditional TKD in "open" tournaments competing with all different hard styles. WT and ITF have closed tournaments , only allowing members of their organizations. WT and ITF will sometimes compete in open tournaments too. Hope that helps. Bonus: WT probably has best cardio training, ITF will have more "tool" conditioning than WT (hitting hard objects), Traditional TKD may have the most conditioning of tools (in addition to feet and fists, shins & forearms). So TKD can go from athletic baby sitting, to hard core calcification for combat (rare).
@@andresvalentin6924 i know it is but I'm trying to do like Jesse enkamp and bring it back to it's roots in karate and plus since you can't punch in the face you develop some nasty kicks and leg mobility Wich helps a lot with my judo and taido training
@official_liberal_chungus7825 No doubt. I train in both Muay Thai and Dutch kickboxing. I also have a Capoeira background and used to do it even after getting into Muay Thai. For many of the same reasons you've mentioned.
As someone with almost 20 years in TKD (Both WT and ITF styles), I can admit to seeing the "TKD is the ultimate" mentality. For me, I thought i was solid till i got deployed and had the opportunity to play with Kali. A I met another Martial Artist and i was able to see so many of the gapping holes in my art. Whereas i still believe in TKD as a legitimate martial art and fighting art, it needs some outside assistance. This isnt an insult, but i feel TKD as an M.A. needs to step away from the sports aspect so it can grow better I will stand on this comment that if you mix in some Boxing ( i dont mean 1 or 2 lessons either) with your kicks you will dominate. If you dont set those kicks up with some punches you deserve to get punched in the face. Leg kicks are another technique I know ive been teaching for several years. Target those legs and dont rely on that spinny stuff. Outside a ring, you're going to get your head ripped off doing that.
It always amused me that if martial arts came up when I was in China it inevitably came down to judo or TKD discussions. Almost no one in my experience had any interest in kung fu except, I think, as a sort of traditional dance perhaps that I think Americans would roughly consider on par with seeing knight battles reenacted at Renaissance fairs.
@@elenchus No mutual welfare, even if you used grappling from Kung Fu, you'd still be trying to dump people on their heads and that's no good for longevity.
@@kaijenkins4513 That's a good point, so I usually would explore with qualifiers like "Shaolin" kung fu or mantis kung fu to make sure we're on the same page.
I think the difference really between Wing Chun and Taekwondo (I have practices both arts) in that regard is that. It doesn't take a lot of tweaking to make Taekwondo functional and dangerous. You don't even need to change the move set of Taekwondo to make it functional and dangerous. The kicks are lethal and devastating and can come out of nowhere. Really its the mindset that's the problem or at least how they compete works against them when it moves to a more full contact environment against other style. They have a tendency to throw out their flashiest, fight ending moves right off the bat without the set up. Because in the point style system of their competition, they can get away with that. If the miss and land in an uncompromising position or a position of vulnerability, it's generally reset and they go again. Where as, when its a fight like this. You land like that, you're paying for it. The ref doesn't tend to stop it so you can recompose yourself. Though, when you take these guys and throw them in a proper kickboxing class or an MMA class for a few months and get that point fight attitude out of them. Damn are they lethal. They make scary sparring partners once they managed that range control and they've learned to stuff takedowns. They can hard and from anywhere. Wing Chun doesn't have the same luxury. While I do use Wing Chun when I spar and fight. It's more cherry picked stuff with a base amount of it dumped, even the stuff I do use is heavily modified to get working. It makes a great supplementary art to add to your game (with adjustments) though I don't think it has the same level of practical foundation that Taekwondo has. Though that's just my opinion on the matter from my experience.
Remember, few decades back in the day famous kickboxers who mastered taekwondo was still rooted in Tang Soo Do giving the fighters a firm, strong foundation to stand on before the Tang Soo Do rooted foundation was watered down to simply being removed.
Taekwando simply lacks body conditioning because they use chest guards, thefore not used to taking real heat in hand to hand combact. Wingchun is a storage for double sword fighting/Shield and sword fightig which is disguised in slaping hands. It can be activated in Kali/Filipino martial arts like Balintawak or it's own butterfly swords systems, otherwise the empty hand system is only a storage system just like trapping hands of JKD. Empty hand wingchun can only be use when you have another system like boxing. Karate/Kyokushin fights a headless opponent because they do not punch the face which is a strategic target therefore incomplete aswell. Muay Tai and Kickboxing are complete and acurate stand up fighting systems in hand to hand catergory. Peace from Swazialand .
It seemed a lot of what gave the Russians an advantage, in addition to their size, was that Kyokushin conditioning and physical toughness. The karate guy seem to be able to just walk in and eat kicks and punches from the taekwondo guys. However, once the karate guy started landing punches, the taekwondo guys couldn't weather the storm. This is another difference between striking and grappling. Physical toughness is enough to resist strikes for at least a little bit. However, physical toughness when someone's applying a joint lock or choke will just get your limbs broken or leave you unconscious.
Russian Kyokushin guys have a rep for being brutally tough. I was taking it in Winnipeg at that time. It was tough but fun. Dropped almost 30lbs my first month training.
@@sunnibirdin Russia the government provides funding for martial arts. Obviously for big ones like judo but even some for kyokushin or more niche things so their talent pool is much deeper than other countries. Russia, Brazil, and Japan being the best countries at kyokushin.
Taekwondo in its purest form is not too different from Karate since it derived from it, the most important difference is the level of conditioning, since Kyokushin especially focuses heavily on body conditioning and Taekwondo doesnt do much of it at all it is usually quite hard for a taekwondo practitioner to hurt a kyokushin guy
Exactly taekwondo origins come heavily from shotokan before it was branched into two federations, the difference was the dexterity and power in the kicking.
taekwondo isnt derived from karate. the earliest mention of taekwondo dates back to the 1840s. this is much older than most styles of karate. although there are many similarities between the two, as karate was introduced to TKD in the 1940s due to the occupation of japan, there where many instances of taekwondo being used in international competitions that where clearly not of japanese origin. even the creator of kyokushin karate was originally korean, he just mixed what he learned from karate and the traditional korean martial art.
@@morijinsbrother hmm the original TKD book from Choi himself states that the art has heavy influence from shotokan during the Japanese occupation (similar stance but not as deep and really takes the upper body movements like strikes and blocks). They were then combined with the old Korean martial arts taekkyon witch had influence from kung fu and 100s of years of history behind it. So TKD had similar arts but it was not developed until the 40s.
Kyokushin guys are legit. Mas Oyama trained very hard and that carried over to the schools. TKD too watered down because of sport. Real Karate, at least Mas Oyama interpretation, is fighting for war and to the death. And you can see that mindset in the training. Very hardcore
I did TKD for 3 years before receiving the most valuable TKD lesson...when I tried out Sanda and had my ass handed to me. Started boxing and BJJ after that. I've since ended numerous matches with a well-placed back kick to the liver. Alone, TKD really is useless, but utilized correctly, it can be deadly.
That’s why I’m interested in it tbh, but I’m not interested until I get to advanced level in Jiu Jitsu and start practicing Muay Thai again. TKD kicks are an excellent supplement, but they are just that…. A supplement to the more rounded styles.
@@Darth_Bateman I'd suggest just sticking to Muay Thai and being aware of TKD fighters' abilities. TKD kicks takes a long time (years) to practice before you can make them useful in a real fight, so if you're only interested in TKD as a supplement, then I'd say it's not worth your time. Unless you find a school that incorporates (but doesn't focus on) TKD specifically to supplement kickboxing. Speaking from 10 years of TKD experience here.
@@Darth_Bateman Hahaha yeah they are pretty sweet. On the other hand, I've seen experienced Muay Thai fighters learn TKD kicks pretty quick because once you're up there in skill, it's a lot easier to pick up other arts. So you can do it! :D
This was good. As a Kyokushin Karate and Chung Do Kwan TKD practitioner from the 1970s I see TKD has changed for the worst. It was once pretty hardcore. Oh well.
@@iROChakri Yeah, it was. I came up in a era when everything wasn't captured on video, but I know from experience. My particular TKD instructor was a Korean Vietnam war veteran from the "Tiger division" and training was hard, there may be footage of some 1970s on RUclips, I just know what I did and saw, besides many U.S. Vietnam war veterans who competed in the karate tournaments of that era were trained in TKD. Sh*t wasn't soft then.
People who say “TKD was never hardcore” haven’t seen any history from before the turn of the century. 90s university-level TKD was intense enough that they wore two body guards/pads for partnered kick training. 80s and earlier was before they tried to adapt TKD (at least in South Korea) into something that might be picked up by the Olympics, because there were TKD demonstrations at the Olympics from… 1988 I believe. Some people after that did try to retain their older serious roots, but competition was and is popular (same as being a casual who just wants to have fun) - and the competitions specialised in perceived effect on the opponent [ie. singular kicks and not much else], until even that disappeared from 2010 onwards with the electric hogu / pads.
TKD guy #3 got hit so hard it actually crashed my PC. Ok, it was probably a complete coincidence and more likely related to a failing stick of RAM, but still. I 'studied' TKD for about 3 months just after I turned 40. Not a midlife crisis or anything, I got dragged there by a friend at work. I enjoyed it a lot - the instructor was cool, I got some great exercise, and just hanging out in that environment was a lot of fun, but I never thought for a second that I was now some kind of ready-for-the-mean-streets badass. 8.5/10, would definitely do again.
100%. TKD is super fun, people should definitely consider practicing it because it's fun, and also have a realistic mindset as to how applicable it is outside of TKD rules. It's that balance of self-awareness.
I dragged my friends to tkd but turned out the club is this super traditional non Olympic club where we spend one hour of just continuous sit ups for conditioning, everything is super hardcore, and we sometimes wear pads just so we don't completely wreck our bones. All my friends quit, but there was something so addictive about the discipline and philosophical lessons being taught that I can't find at a commercial martial arts place.
@@eagleye2893 kyokushin roundhouse is a hybrid between karate and muaythai kick. Their low kick is basically Thai lowkick. They usually can roundhouse kick you to the face at very close range thus more pratical than TKD where you have to keep some distance .
@@phanhuyduc2395 Perhaps. But in a Conventional MMA scenario. Most people are already looking out for Muay Thai Style Low Kicks and Roundhouses. Let alone Kyokushin. No one is expecting a well timed Tornado Kick to the head after conditioning your opponent to guard yet another Roundhouse.
It always comes down to durability in these things. The TKD guys are glass cannons. Capable of dealing damage but not taking the same level of punishment as the Kyokushin guys.
TKD guys need to dodge more but have a larger variety of Kicks that when used right, can be devastating. Karate is more well rounded. But unlike Boxing and Taekwondo they neither excel nor lack in either Striking Department.
The way TKD fighters effortlessly fall to the ground at there own admission after every missed spin kick sets them up for that ez ground n pound submission. Like taking candy from a baby.
My advice as a practioner of TKD myself, is know the basics. Know that TKD has part of its roots in karate. TKD means way of the HAND and foot so train both. Forget wtf and itf in regards to fighting and remember TKD originally came from the battlefield although it was called something else. Prepare for all ranges of combat. That means having at least some training in grappling to be able to defend against it. Whether you're facing boxing, karate, muay thai, or grappling, study and prepare for the strategies those styles use.
@@morijinsbrother During the Japanese occupation of Korea, Korean martial arts were banned from being practiced even though some still trained in them secretly. There were also many Korean teachers that studied karate and other Japanese arts and infused them with their own arts. After the Japanese occupation was over Korea wanted its own identity including martial arts bringing about the name taekwondo. This why I said its roots are in karate. The founder of my school of taekwondo Song Moo Kwan, Byung Jik Ro was a direct student of Gichin Funakoshi, founder of Shotokan karate.
@@shamaraban82 taekwondo during the warring states period was originally a folk martial art. and the earliest use of the word taekwondo actually takes place in 1840. im not saying karate was not a big influence in taekwondo, but not its roots. being somethings roots means its the foundation it was built on. karate was used to refine what taekwondo already had, as an amalgamation of a few korean martial arts already. however after the warring states period many korean practitioners did go to japan to learn karate and incorporated what they learned there into the traditional korean martial art, that was mainly passed down through senior members of the community than any master student relationship
@@morijinsbrother Interesting point about the term taekwondo dating back as early as 1840. I've never heard that before. Could you send a reference for me to look into that? I'm aware of the folk art taekkyon you spoke about unless you're talking about something else. I know there were a few names that were used for Korean martial arts before the name taekwondo came about. I was speaking more on the term you used "refined" taekwondo we know today. The version that was used in war and not the modern sport, which I hate.
@@shamaraban82 yeah sure. theres a channel called traditional taekwondo tv that goes into detail on this subject and has a whole series based on it, which is where im getting most of my information from. although the first use of the term taekwondo was used in a book in 1840s referring to a branch of taekkyon that was different to what was taught elsewhere
because kyokushin karate is a full contact martial art, physical endurance is prioritized, hard as a rock because of sanchin breathing exercises , press the opponent without stopping, minimal attacks but deadly,
Kyokushin karate = specializes in close range combat. Extreme body conditioning & extreme workout for strength. Can take a lot of hits because of their close range style. And move a slower in general because higher stances = smaller steps & they fight close, no need to move fast. Most other styles of karate prefer mid range or longer range combat = wider stances = bigger steps = leap in leap out, “fighting from the outside” (we call it point-fighting style). We fight & move faster. Managing distance is important in karate. And being karatekas, we all train the same stances and shift to wider/higher stances to change our ranges. I see the Kyokushin guys started close, realized they had to fight in and out point-fighting style to get further to avoid the kicks. George’s St Pierre is also a Kyokushin. But he uses lower stances to and adopted “point fighting style” to fight in and out, because he knows boxing/Muay Thai based fighters fight close and he doesn’t want to get involved in a close range punching/kicking contest with them. We don’t have fancy flying kicks, only spinning kicks. But we don’t use them very much during competitions or set up bait or feints first, with punches or simpler straightkicks, then move in with a spinning kick or whatever when the opponent is off balance. Not just throwing aimlessly, since our karateka opponents are good at dodging, deflecting or catch the leg and can move in fast.. For that exact reason: if we hit on target it will probably be a knockout. But if we miss, we get off balance or fall flat on the floor. And they will definitely close range fast before you can recover and blitz the hell out of you (like Wonderboy/Machida). But since the Kyokushins have scary powerful strikes, a couple of liver punches seemed enough to knock someone down.
As someone who has years of training in both Kyokushin and Taekwondo, I can confidently say always bet on the Kyokushin fighter. Kyokushin practitioners are conditioned to fight in the pocket, exchange blows, and win by destroying the opponent’s body. I can only speak for WTF and not ITF Taekwondo, but in Taekwondo we did not receive that level of rigorous body conditioning nor did we ever get to feel a full contact body shot because we were forced to wear pads and armor.
If anybody says kyokushinkai fighters can't take punches to the face are wrong. George st piere did kyokushinkai and still does train and michael jai white is kyokushinkai and he still trains as well. Alot of kyokushinkai guys do k1 and win alot of the fights and there has been kyokushinkai fighters in mma.
Kyokushin don't F around, bruv. Been there, done that. First, you learn to have you ass kicked, to power through it. Then, after you become built like a F'ing TANK, you get to know how to punch, kick, and take people who are going to hurt you, get hurt first. Kyokushin is more alike Muay Thay than it is alike TKD.
Kyokushin is brutal. They also have spectacular head kicks. That's why they keep their hands up. When I trained kyokushin they were always yelling "keep your hands up"!
These weren't even top Kyokushin figthers and they were still tough as nails. The top Kyokushin fighters can kick your head off when you're in close range.
The rules really make all the difference. Kyokushin guys are tough as nails but I've seen dozens of videos on RUclips where they fight a MT or kickboxing guy who accidentally touches them in face on reflex and they freak out. It's a huge flaw that they don't train for the most common type of attack.
I agree that's why I want to train in Kyokushin since I already do Kickboxing. The reason why is that Kyokushin has more kicking techniques than kickboxing does and it has better conditioning plus it's more suited to MMA because Kyokushin Karate has judo in it
@@kennethkotelo893ot so much judo since there is no grappling allowed in sports kumite, you might do some grappling techniques, drills, ect. in some classes but it's not that common even in very legit schools, or in seminars you are deffinitely gonna see bunkai grappling stuff but i'm not sure about how deeply beacuse i have never gone to one until now honestly.
Very good..years ago I had the honor of training with a Tang Soo Do Master in Harrisburg, PA. Tim Bai, he was incredible no one wanted to fight him. He was used to full contact fron the old world in Korea and Japan. He punched trees wrapped in rope etc...He could leap 6ft vertically and execute flying roundhouse and sidekicks...he almost broke my ledt big toe showing me how to effectively use a low block...I question if even Bruce Lee could of beat him..he wore glasses thick as a coke bottle bottom..this was in the seventies...axe marks on his back from gang fighting...Tae Kwon Do as taught in the modern era is not a Martial Art...lessons from Tim saved my life several times on the street.
Taekwondo should get rid of the protectiv gears. Just like in Kyokushin. This allone would give Taekwondo much more reapect in the world of martial art
Kyokushin students are conditioned like rocks as brawlers. Check out their black belt gauntlets. They arguably hit harder than MT to the body and legs. TKD has zero conditioning regimen. Once you bridge past the kicking range, it's like passing the guard in BJJ--their weapons become ineffective. TKD is great for distance management, timing, and the surprise attacks, but it has no other fundamental techniques that are effective.
I do Kyokushin and trust me it is one of the toughest form of martial arts in striking arts and against TKD which is a semicontact point system shit, thats not gonna work! we r trained to get hit before we learn to hit!! osu
As a long time Taekwondo Master I can say this depiction is not accurate. As a kid, we used to go to one of Steve Arneil's Kyuksushinkai clubs for the full contact sparring - they were like walking punchbags. Later on, win adulthood, I organized a community martial arts demonstration, which included displays of Judo, Jiu Jitsu, Kyuksuhinkai, Kung-Fu and Tai Chi - all were invited to participate in full contact sparring matches with Taekwondo Students, all refused.
Against a Taewondo dude you try to close the distances well by using lateral movements, working angles, to avoid their spin kicks, and you use 2, 3 and 4-punch combos; body/head, head/body, straights, hooks...with good weight transfers behind them. Nasty calf kicks with the rear leg and from both stances here and there as well. Using both stances is a good thing against them.
I practice both kyokushin and wing chun, and i can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you can't make wing chun effective, then you dont know wing chun. Wing chun is very technical, and those who can't make it work typically misunderstand application. Much like TKD, you also see these guys often dont pressure test their skills. Its all on the training. Kyokushin training can be brutal and actually conditions you for abuse and aggression. Learning multiple arts is useful. The strengths of one compensates for the weaknesses of the other and vise versa. Tapping into a little wing chun in class gives me a large speed advantage when training with my classmates. It's arrogant to think you have nothing to learn from a different art.
The Taekwondo style is silly - you give them a target and they always take it, they can't resist it, and then before they kick they send this text message from left field and your phone beeps and they're like, hey that, I'm launching this, its coming...it's so dumb.
Thanks for posting this. It illustrates exactly why I'm not angry with my former sabumnim for dismissing from her dojang for "having too much not Taekwondo in my style." Don't get me wrong! She was amazing! But she got tired of me beating her black belts with my hybridization of Taekwondo and the other styles I have trained in. She basically said "Taekwondo or Taekwon-DON'T. And if you choose the second one, you have to leave." So I left. No fear, no regrets.
I think most Taekwondo practitioners are not trained to withstand the painful punches and kicks from the Kyukushin, because most Taekwondoin train for self-defense and only do martial arts. not many tae kwondoin have gone into the professional freestyle arena full body contact and hard... some of the hard-hitting tae kwondo figures include Serkan Yilmas from Turkey, Lawrence Kenshin
Taekwondo is like a glass cannon with huge cooldown timer. The 3rd TKD guy put a good fight but get exhausted doing too much kick. When they do fancy kick they fall down to ground, the wrestler, Judo & BJJ people will submit them on the ground The Karate guys throw less kick, more punches, more effective. The first 2 Karate guys won via punch.
Yeah. As a TKD practicioner myself, it's best to save your fancy kicks after conditioning your opponent, as just doing a series of kicks alone can slowly toil away at your stamina. There's no shame in doing beginner level kicks often. I speak as a black belt that has done as few spinning kicks in sparring as possible.
It's all in how the style is taught, and for what purpose. TKD was a LOT more dangerous in the 80s when it was taught to obliterate the opponent and break his ribs or kick his head into the next postcode. Kyokushin is better conditioned: they fight bare-knuckle full-pelt to the body. Those guys can take a punch. TKD guys often try to get fancy, but it's the fast and hard basics that win fights. Their kicks are second to none in terms of form or how they can kick from almost any position. Teach them to mostly fight to cause damage and really set up those kicks, and they'll be a scary opponent.
I just switched to Kyokushin after 20+ years of shotokan and boy oh boy... kyokushin is brutal. Not only they give focus on endurance and strike hard as a mule (way harder than it seems on videos), their close range combat is super intimidating for long ranged martial arts like shotokan or Taekwon do. One impressive thing is that they can kick at super short distances, including head kicks. Super intimidating.
I'm From a ITF Taekwon Do background and we use to compete against Kyokushin from time to time. We won a few, we lost a few, overall, it was about 50/50, the Main difference, was that the Kyokushin guy's would just keep coming forward, and they can take a hit. They train for it. You have to train your body to take a hit. If not, your setting yourself up for failure. Also the rules your fighting under can have a huge bearing on the outcomes. Mostly we competed under their rules. Which we sometimes struggled with the no punches to the face.
I question if Kyokushin is traditional. Mas Oyama was Korean and kyokushin itself was not one of the Ryu that had a direct lineage from Japan or Okinawa clans. It’s a synthesis of many of those styles developed by a Korean. It’s taekwondo with more contact a squared off stance and different rules.
Wrong, oyama trained goju ryu and shotokan under the the founder of shotokan and went to challenge muay thai fighters from thailand and lost but then chaged the style ( oyama kyokushin style) to better deal with them, and they one 2 out of 3 fihts if i remember correctly, that's why it looks like muya thai a bit , kyokushin origins come from goju and shotokan cause same katas , just ask a old kyokushin master and you'll learn a bit more
@RealLifeManOfSteel do you know which karate style all of the founders of the taekwondo Kwans studied in before they developed taekwondo? My point was not that Oyama ( Choi Yong I) studied taekwondo but that he did something similar to the Korean founders of taekwondo.
low kicks are the demise of TKD fighters. The karateka just need to wait for the kick and then answer with a low kick to the thigh. After 3 or 4 of these, the TKD guy cannot kick anymore
If you put the hardening of kyokushin and low kicks into taekwondo literally at the time of combat, taekwondo and kyokushin are almost the same, you just have to watch the video to realize... Since a large part of taekwondo comes from shotokan karate . Ancient taekwondo put more emphasis on grappling and realistic combat (it was super similar to old school shotokan karate) until it became just an unrealistic sport.
taekwondo outdates shotokan karate by almost a hundred years. although it wasnt the complete martial art it is now the first instances we see of TKD take place in the 1840s. meanwhile shotokan was founded in the 1930s. true taekwondo has been influenced by karate, but its not the same.
@@morijinsbrother Thanks for the info bro! In the same way, taekwondo seems to me to be a martial art that disturbs in a realistic way and for real fights it is super effective, you just have to see it in the ufc and how is it that their kicks do work, you just have to practice and put a little more emphasis on the blows (in the case of WT) but the truth is that I do not understand the lower price of taekwondo, it seems to me an effective martial art although it is not at the level of muay thai or kyokushin karate, but taekwondo practiced for real fights has already proven to be effective And more if it is mastered to its full potential...
Time and time again, TKD itself is proving that it is a safe space martial art - basically like a Ballet Dance. TKD is just for kids, for fitness of the kids. But for combat? TKD is Useless.
The problem with TKD is it relies more on kicks than hands. A fighter who can control or get inside to lessen the effectiveness of one’s kicks and is better with their hands like a boxer, wing chun, aikido, judo, jujitsu, karate, Kenpo etc… is more likely to win the fight. Kicks are best used for parrying, or distance fighting but if you lack hand skills…you are toast.
Agreed. Having done TKD myself. You generally need to close the distance just to shut down the effectiveness of kicks. While I do full contact it's with armor. And generally to compensate for the lack of proper guards, you are encouraged to dodge. Edit: You definitely still have to watch out for the Spinning Kicks though, a good practicioner knows when to use a fancy high knockout power kick. Otherwise, those kicks will keep you at a distance if you're ill prepared to work around them. Especially push kicks (I developed a love for the sidekick).
In these challenges between styles, it's all about training and rules. If a Taekwondo fighter faces a Kyokushin fighter under the Kyokushis rules, the result is obvious. If the rules were those of Olympic Taekwondo, the Kyokushi fighter and probably any other fighter of any other style would be embarrassed. These challenges are fun and instructive but cannot be overrated.
There was a world Sabaki champion that was Tae Kwon do. Which is a successor version of Kyokushin with Judo concepts. But he had to adapt his style to be able to have success. Its important for any style to understand their limitations and strengths and also how they would be able to go against other styles.
different conditioning for different purpose. Kyokushin karate is condutioned for ko opponent while Taekwondo is conditioned for taking point in olympic competition.Even the taekwondo guys do simmilar with Kyokushin conditioning for 1 year as preparation they still lack behind mostly.
Its important to understand, that all these fights are going by kyokushin rules and also that in those times russian national team of kyokushin was the strongest team in the world! They beated even a japanese team. So, kyokushin school in Russia is very-very strong. So we see the strange competition, where strongest karatekas beat usual tkd-practicioners by karate rules. Its cruel and have no sence...
If you go by older WT rulesets, strikes must be "trembling-shock" visibly makig your opponents move or stagger or counter-so punches must be able to visibly make a person move for it to count.
Two things - the Taekwondo guys were clearly WT practitioners. Second, IDK what the ruleset was but in terms of legal strikes, this was the full kyokushin arsenal. This also includes all legal taekwondo moves, but with the addition of leg kicks and knees, which are illegal in taekwondo. Taekwondo also uses body, leg, and head armour. In other words this was basically taekwondo athletes trying to compete under kyokushin conditions. Also no weight classes apparently, which I think matters much more than the fact that the TKD athletes came from one city. In general WT practitioners will have less body conditioning for sure and less experience with unprotected strikes, so the emphasis on training is less about effective ways to deal damage and more about scoring points. I imagine if they did away with the armour, taekwondo would eventually morph into something that looks more like kyokushin since practitioners would actually have to deal with pain from body punches, something they don't need to care about with armour. Still the issue with no leg kicks and knees, and the point system... but I do think removing the armour would be a decent first step to making tkd more legit. They'd need to start caring about dealing consistent and reliable damage instead of just the kicks that score well.
I did 8 years of judo, then 3 of french style boxing (kinda similar to kickboxing), and now 2 years ITF (ongoing). In a tkd spar I will respect the tkd rules. In a real fight i can mix theses, i would start with a low kick, then medium/high kick, and punches. Can use judo to put the guy down too. I think it’s completely pointless to compare martial arts that way. None are perfect, they are not meant to attack someone, these are meant to give you some keys to defend yourself. If you get multiple keys, you can defend yourself properly. If you stick to the inly ones your martial art offers, you have more chance to get taken down by an attacker because these dudes won’t care about distance and not hitting your back. We should all remember these martial arts are not science but only keys you can use
I think they should allow 5 seconds of ground fighting. Getting pounded on the ground as punishment for attempting and missing a flashy kick. And perhaps 3-5 seconds of clinch work as well as allowing throws.
I would disagree with Taekwondo guys being as delusional as Wing chun guys. A lot of us Taekwondo practitioners know that we don't stand a chance against most striking styles like Kyokushin and Muay Thai
Maybe you’re right. And without a doubt most TKd people can beat wing chun people. So with that in mind: Aikido guys are number one in overestimating their abilities, wing chun guys number two, TKD number three, and American Kenpo guys number four. How does that ranking sound?
I'm mildly hyped on the next Rizin where that ex- kyokushin world champ guy (Ueda) fights again. You really don't see those scary yet beautiful kicking skills these days.
@@jestfullgremblim8002 Totally agree, it's just I haven't really seen that applied at the highest levels yet, whereas you can find a lot of great karatekas in the UFC, Bellator, etc. that are able to pull this off against elite strikers reliably. I would actually say TKD fighters were more evasive in my experience. They are so incredibly light on their feet. However, when I see this put to the test, the TKD guy usually eats a lot of punches. To be honest, you can see this when kyokushin guys go do full contact with face punches too. Oddly, I find it's the less combat-intensive shotokan and shito-ryu guys that are doing the best distance management. The big issue for TKD trying to pull off these kinds of tactics in, say, MMA or full contact kickboxing, is that the attacks are so incredibly high commitment that I don't think you're going to be able to create space again reliably enough. Most, if not all, of those jump kicks and many of the spin kicks, for instance, would have been badly punished in MMA.
To fight TkD u just have to fight them closer with punches n render their kicks useless.Without their kicks they are useless.Thats why Muay Thay so effective against TKD.
This seems to be WTF-TKD style, they are used to fight with body armor and not used to be hit with punches in the body (uppercut/hook) unlike Kyokushin style. I cannot remember a time on my WTF-TKD days that we did not wear body armor when sparring. Only when our instructor is not around that we blackbelts have fun doing full contact sparring with body uppercuts and diving punch at close range. WTF-TKD does not allow punches to the head, only in the body. Same with Korean karate called Tang Soo Do (Moo Duk Kwan/Soo Bahk Do). Damn, old school TKD is much more fun than modern TKD :P
![KSI - Dirty [Official Visualiser]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VoDh1h1dPUE/mqdefault.jpg)
I did a few styles of karate when I was in college/grad school (I always had to change because the next university invariably had a different style) and a couple years of TKD at one of the universities. Although a style of TKD I'd call ITF-esque (maybe it was ITF, I didn't know enough at the time to even think about there being more than one style of TKD), I could definitely feel a big punching gap between karate and TKD. Karate spends so much time practicing reverse punches (gyaku zuki), stepping punches (oi zuki), and punch-kick combinations (insert Japanese word here), whereas in the rare instance there was punching in TKD, it was to chest pads (we didn't have pads in karate) and it was almost more like a way of pushing someone away. Punching felt very much like an afterthought.
That said, I'd actually suggest that most people study TKD over karate, or really most martial arts. TKD is such a fun, mobile, active style. It's one of the most fun to just work on your kicks on a bag or focus pads and sparring, in my limited experience, was actually very frequent (albeit unrealistic), and fun is by far the most important factor in choosing a style since 99.999% of people doing martial arts will never have a career in combat sports or successfully use their martial art in self-defense anyway.
I would definitely not suggest people train tkd rather than karate or boxing if you have any goals rather than an Olympic medal while being able to be beaten up by a local grandma.
@@monarch1651 I prefer karate personally. I prefer the pedagogy of Japanese styles broadly, the emphasis on absolute technical perfection is something I found to be very helpful compared to both TKD and BJJ, and I have a bias for punching because, as it turned out, I wasn't a particularly good kicker. But when I'm alone in the garage with the heavy bag, I just want to do awesome jump kicks and spinning hook kicks and tornado kicks (even if I'm not good at them). TKD has such an addictive quality to it.
But that's for me personally. In my opinion, people should do martial arts primarily because they find it fun, and I think that most people will find TKD to be more fun than karate. I think a certain kind of person (namely me) also finds BJJ really fun because of the game-like quality that rolling has every class, but I find that most people just aren't up to the soul-crushing reality of getting tapped out 15 times a night the first year they take it up.
Chest protectors and no punches? definitely WTF.
I think adding TKD on top of your primary martial art benefits the practitioner because of the high level of body coordination that's required in TKD, it gets you more familiar with yourself and your abilities because hell, if you can 540 hook kick you can most definitely low kick.
@@DreanPetruza chest protectors with punches (to the body)
One problem with the TKD guys is that they never seem to want to use their simpler kicks. It would help them a bit in situations like these where they're being walked down. More kicks, and more volume to keep them off you. Kyokushin guys advance like a mean turtle and just start punching the fuck out of your body. The TKD guys are being smothered by that forward march. Their kicks are being neutralized because they're trying too hard to hit with fancy spinkicks. My only advice to the TKD guys is to blast away with simple kicks and oblique kicks. Save the fancy stuff for an opening.
A TKD instructor I know boasted how TKD has the most diverse collection of kicks in martial arts. I don't like that, would rather have a smaller set of tools I could train to great proficiency, than a wide range of tools and a lot of them being useless.
@jackreacher4489 I agree that simplicity can be a strength, but I also feel that having a well developed arsenal is worth the time. The kicks in TKD are devastating when used by someone with fighting experience outside traditional McDojos and their idiotic training methods. Take a look at some kickboxers with a TKD background. They are absolute killers with it, but that's because they know how to judge distance, timing, and opportunity. Most of the guys we see here are incompetent fighters who've only sparred in their own styles, if at all. In this case, I blame them for misusing the techniques and their stupid instructors for being martial arts parrots instead of innovators. Anyone who thinks a style is complete without a grappling component or leg kicks is delusional. Same goes for punching and ground game. People just repeat the shit their master taught them without thinking.
@@justinwallace269 I agree with you. I did karate for a while, it was really fun, and I learned the first four heian kata. I do them on occasion, when I have no one to train with, but I don't want to devote so much time into learning 20+ kata when my time could be better spent on other things.
Still, I'd rather devote my time to mastering 10 kicks that are proven, and might slightly verge to flashy, than a bunch of flashy kicks that have no chance to work in sparring or self defense.
@jackreacher4489 That makes sense. I feel the same way when it comes to dabbling in too many styles. I'd rather only learn a few that cover the bases and just get really good at the necessary parts of them. I'd totally ditch katas in favor of more time spent on shadow boxing and sparring. I don't know about Karate katas, but TKD katas made absolutely no sense. They were basically unrelated dance moves with no connection to what we were doing. TKD is one of those styles you can learn in a week and get good at in a month. The dojang training itself is extremely outdated and doesn't properly prepare someone for a fight. It just stretches out its usefulness to make more money off you. My only interest is in learning what's practical or at least fun.
@@justinwallace269 I recommend you check out the book The Killing Art: History of Taekwon do.
It goes into detail how the founders trained Japanese martial arts, most of them in Shotokan, and wanted to create something Korean.
At the time they were quite innovative, most modern kicks we see in combat sports came from them, but unfortunately it was dumbed down a lot after the Vietnam war because people didn't want to do the hard training. Another problem stems from the founder, General Cho, wanting it to differ from karate as much as possible that he deliberately made some of the dumbest changes to techniques, just to make them appear different.
Old school TKD is a beast, punches to the head, low kicks, throws, trips, joint locks, chokes, and weapons. Unfortunately there are maybe a dozen dojang in the world that still teach it, and I have no clue where they are.
Bruh, Tkd guy here and who ever told these guys that fighting kyokushin guys at their own game was a good idea is terrible person. They literally just batter each others bodies constantly for training. Plus kyokushin leg kicks may even be slightly better than Muay thai. Like these fights just straight up arent fair lol
I find this Karate matches more entertaining to watch than MMA etc. Just gives me this Street Fighter vibe that is just so cool.
I miss karate but so over katas. I just can't anymore. I did it as a teenager. I had more patience.
@@myhandlehasbeenmishandled I kind of had the opposite feeling. When I was just beginning college kata drove me insane, but 4 or 5 years later they really grew on me. I’m still unconvinced that they’re a useful training tool, but I did find them eventually enjoyable, almost meditative.
@@elenchus Yes they should be thought of as meditations
It's a shame how much modern karate emphasizes kata, when all the old masters knew maybe 3. The rest of their time was spent on actually drilling techniques. Karate could easily rival muay thai if they spent more time on pads, partner work, sparring...
Look at kyokushin and it's offshoots, very respected by the Thais.
@@jackreacher4488yeah exactly the old masters would master a small number of kata to the point where they were excellent training tools to sharpen technique as well as pass on technique
I practiced Kyokushin for over 15 years.
Some rules:
Do not start with "big techniques" - start with small ones.
Keep the "Kyokushin stance".
Be tough to receive full=force punches and kicks.
Again: do not be a fool and use big techniques without preparation: your opponent is smart, too, and can see them coming...
Btw, Bruce Lee said once that the one who is a better puncher would win in a fight...
Wise concepts Sr. Respect. 🙌🏻
@@vvilches1312 Thank you!
I learned these concepts from Sensei Tats Nakamura.
@@marcelnowakowski945 Best! 🙌🏻🥋.
what is the "kyokushin stance"? you can't use other karate stances?
@@portela132 You can use anything you want.
Check out YT about Kyokushin.
Kyokushin, Ashihara, Enshin and Kudo Daiko Juku.
The good stuff.
First striking art my parent's enrolled me in was kyokushin( my first martial art was judo as a little kid) in the 1970s under a student of Mas Oyama.....i was a skinny little kid and crawled out of evey class wondering why my parents sent me there ...it was brutal
Karate was still karate in the 70s, it was full contact and you got hurt first class.
Discovered TCMA later....ahhh at last kids my size.
Gotta say, the TKD guys at least look like their strikes have some impact compared to most flappy tappy strikes you see from tkd guys on this channel! Hard to beat Kyokushin pressure and conditioning though
Even your more limited arts like TKD use to have balls. A lot of old clips like this showcase TKD dudes and Shotokan dudes being pretty damn scrappy.
Yeah the technique is limited in scope but they had balls.
T.K.D. give black belts out in two years.
How to tell TKD styles by uniform: Sport TKD has a light pull-over v-neck top with a logo at the bottom of the V. ITF also has pullover top but looks sort of like over lapping lapels found on karate gi and is medium weight cloth.. ITF black belt will have stripes along length of arm and leg. Traditional TKD do bok will be the same a karate gi, a heavy weight material with front overlapping top with side ties. Stripes will be a long lapel, and bottom of top, some times around cuffs of arms and legs.
Style differences depend on linages. May have trained in different TKD styles, and all have punches, throws, locks, pressure points in forms, however sparing: WT sport TKD does not allow punching to head, strikes below the belt, blocking with the knee, more than three kicks without putting foot down, no knees or elbows or grabbing, full contact no stopping 3 rounds. Points: punch 1, kick to body 2, kick to head 3, spinning kick +1. Designed to look good for Olympics.
ITF sparring: touch or full contact. Kicking and punching above belt, no knees or elbows. Looks like kick boxing, or point karate.
Traditional TKD: depends on the Kwan (family style) of it's lineage. It may look like Shotokon, kung fu, jujitsu, yudo (judo) Tae Kyeon (2000 yr old korean kicking / throwing art. Sparring is usually point with touch contact like ITF but often allows low kicks and throws. You will see traditional TKD in "open" tournaments competing with all different hard styles. WT and ITF have closed tournaments , only allowing members of their organizations. WT and ITF will sometimes compete in open tournaments too. Hope that helps.
Bonus: WT probably has best cardio training, ITF will have more "tool" conditioning than WT (hitting hard objects), Traditional TKD may have the most conditioning of tools (in addition to feet and fists, shins & forearms). So TKD can go from athletic baby sitting, to hard core calcification for combat (rare).
3rd taekwondo guy lost, but damn he was tough. Respect
Been cross training in kyokushin to improve my kickboxing and lemme tell you its painful
Dutch kickboxing is basically an offshoot of Japanese kickboxing. Japanese kickboxing is largely based on Kyokushin.
@@andresvalentin6924 i know it is but I'm trying to do like Jesse enkamp and bring it back to it's roots in karate and plus since you can't punch in the face you develop some nasty kicks and leg mobility Wich helps a lot with my judo and taido training
@official_liberal_chungus7825 No doubt. I train in both Muay Thai and Dutch kickboxing. I also have a Capoeira background and used to do it even after getting into Muay Thai. For many of the same reasons you've mentioned.
@@andresvalentin6924boa
As someone with almost 20 years in TKD (Both WT and ITF styles), I can admit to seeing the "TKD is the ultimate" mentality. For me, I thought i was solid till i got deployed and had the opportunity to play with Kali. A I met another Martial Artist and i was able to see so many of the gapping holes in my art. Whereas i still believe in TKD as a legitimate martial art and fighting art, it needs some outside assistance. This isnt an insult, but i feel TKD as an M.A. needs to step away from the sports aspect so it can grow better
I will stand on this comment that if you mix in some Boxing ( i dont mean 1 or 2 lessons either) with your kicks you will dominate. If you dont set those kicks up with some punches you deserve to get punched in the face. Leg kicks are another technique I know ive been teaching for several years. Target those legs and dont rely on that spinny stuff. Outside a ring, you're going to get your head ripped off doing that.
It always amused me that if martial arts came up when I was in China it inevitably came down to judo or TKD discussions. Almost no one in my experience had any interest in kung fu except, I think, as a sort of traditional dance perhaps that I think Americans would roughly consider on par with seeing knight battles reenacted at Renaissance fairs.
Those are the Olympic sports, so it makes sense there's been a lot of people training in those styles!
@@Autonamatonamaton that, and I think people just enjoy competing in sports in general and TKD and judo have lots of local/regional competitions too
@@elenchus No mutual welfare, even if you used grappling from Kung Fu, you'd still be trying to dump people on their heads and that's no good for longevity.
I think “kung fu” in China just means martial arts and not an actual style itself.
@@kaijenkins4513 That's a good point, so I usually would explore with qualifiers like "Shaolin" kung fu or mantis kung fu to make sure we're on the same page.
Kyokushinkai are so good at taking hits, it's really hard for a Tae Kwon Do practitioner to do much to them in terms of damage
True that
And that is why Kyokyshin full contact is the supreme fighting style
@@danlomanalo4161i say sanda is the.most.complete standup but kyo rules
I think the difference really between Wing Chun and Taekwondo (I have practices both arts) in that regard is that. It doesn't take a lot of tweaking to make Taekwondo functional and dangerous. You don't even need to change the move set of Taekwondo to make it functional and dangerous. The kicks are lethal and devastating and can come out of nowhere. Really its the mindset that's the problem or at least how they compete works against them when it moves to a more full contact environment against other style. They have a tendency to throw out their flashiest, fight ending moves right off the bat without the set up. Because in the point style system of their competition, they can get away with that. If the miss and land in an uncompromising position or a position of vulnerability, it's generally reset and they go again. Where as, when its a fight like this. You land like that, you're paying for it. The ref doesn't tend to stop it so you can recompose yourself.
Though, when you take these guys and throw them in a proper kickboxing class or an MMA class for a few months and get that point fight attitude out of them. Damn are they lethal. They make scary sparring partners once they managed that range control and they've learned to stuff takedowns. They can hard and from anywhere.
Wing Chun doesn't have the same luxury. While I do use Wing Chun when I spar and fight. It's more cherry picked stuff with a base amount of it dumped, even the stuff I do use is heavily modified to get working. It makes a great supplementary art to add to your game (with adjustments) though I don't think it has the same level of practical foundation that Taekwondo has. Though that's just my opinion on the matter from my experience.
Remember, few decades back in the day famous kickboxers who mastered taekwondo was still rooted in Tang Soo Do giving the fighters a firm, strong foundation to stand on before the Tang Soo Do rooted foundation was watered down to simply being removed.
Taekwando simply lacks body conditioning because they use chest guards, thefore not used to taking real heat in hand to hand combact. Wingchun is a storage for double sword fighting/Shield and sword fightig which is disguised in slaping hands. It can be activated in Kali/Filipino martial arts like Balintawak or it's own butterfly swords systems, otherwise the empty hand system is only a storage system just like trapping hands of JKD. Empty hand wingchun can only be use when you have another system like boxing. Karate/Kyokushin fights a headless opponent because they do not punch the face which is a strategic target therefore incomplete aswell. Muay Tai and Kickboxing are complete and acurate stand up fighting systems in hand to hand catergory.
Peace from Swazialand .
@@NjabulisoNdzimandze-cx7jcayy,are there peculiar fighting styles in Swaziland?
Excelentd comentario👍👏
then you didn't learn Philipp Bayer (WSL) style which is absolutely sparring focused. Principles over technique.
It seemed a lot of what gave the Russians an advantage, in addition to their size, was that Kyokushin conditioning and physical toughness.
The karate guy seem to be able to just walk in and eat kicks and punches from the taekwondo guys. However, once the karate guy started landing punches, the taekwondo guys couldn't weather the storm.
This is another difference between striking and grappling. Physical toughness is enough to resist strikes for at least a little bit. However, physical toughness when someone's applying a joint lock or choke will just get your limbs broken or leave you unconscious.
Russian Kyokushin guys have a rep for being brutally tough. I was taking it in Winnipeg at that time. It was tough but fun. Dropped almost 30lbs my first month training.
Your coach was a Russian kyokushin guy?
@@FightCommentary No, that’s the reputation they had. We knew about them from tournaments some of the students went to.
Oh! I see!
@@sunnibirdin Russia the government provides funding for martial arts. Obviously for big ones like judo but even some for kyokushin or more niche things so their talent pool is much deeper than other countries. Russia, Brazil, and Japan being the best countries at kyokushin.
@@sunnibird So just made up. Cool story.
Taekwondo in its purest form is not too different from Karate since it derived from it, the most important difference is the level of conditioning, since Kyokushin especially focuses heavily on body conditioning and Taekwondo doesnt do much of it at all it is usually quite hard for a taekwondo practitioner to hurt a kyokushin guy
Exactly taekwondo origins come heavily from shotokan before it was branched into two federations, the difference was the dexterity and power in the kicking.
taekwondo isnt derived from karate. the earliest mention of taekwondo dates back to the 1840s. this is much older than most styles of karate. although there are many similarities between the two, as karate was introduced to TKD in the 1940s due to the occupation of japan, there where many instances of taekwondo being used in international competitions that where clearly not of japanese origin. even the creator of kyokushin karate was originally korean, he just mixed what he learned from karate and the traditional korean martial art.
@@morijinsbrother hmm the original TKD book from Choi himself states that the art has heavy influence from shotokan during the Japanese occupation (similar stance but not as deep and really takes the upper body movements like strikes and blocks).
They were then combined with the old Korean martial arts taekkyon witch had influence from kung fu and 100s of years of history behind it. So TKD had similar arts but it was not developed until the 40s.
@@morijinsbrother Taekwondo certainly has roots from karate. Look up Won Kuk Lee
@@morijinsbrother that is not correct, you must mean Taekkyon
Kyokushin guys are legit. Mas Oyama trained very hard and that carried over to the schools. TKD too watered down because of sport. Real Karate, at least Mas Oyama interpretation, is fighting for war and to the death. And you can see that mindset in the training. Very hardcore
Some Kukkiwon tkd guys were scrappy and strong but yes modern tkd in general is lacking.
I did TKD for 3 years before receiving the most valuable TKD lesson...when I tried out Sanda and had my ass handed to me. Started boxing and BJJ after that. I've since ended numerous matches with a well-placed back kick to the liver. Alone, TKD really is useless, but utilized correctly, it can be deadly.
That’s why I’m interested in it tbh, but I’m not interested until I get to advanced level in Jiu Jitsu and start practicing Muay Thai again.
TKD kicks are an excellent supplement, but they are just that…. A supplement to the more rounded styles.
@@Darth_Bateman I'd suggest just sticking to Muay Thai and being aware of TKD fighters' abilities. TKD kicks takes a long time (years) to practice before you can make them useful in a real fight, so if you're only interested in TKD as a supplement, then I'd say it's not worth your time. Unless you find a school that incorporates (but doesn't focus on) TKD specifically to supplement kickboxing. Speaking from 10 years of TKD experience here.
@@HangmanActual I see, yeah that makes sense….. But damn I want those kicks!
@@Darth_Bateman Hahaha yeah they are pretty sweet. On the other hand, I've seen experienced Muay Thai fighters learn TKD kicks pretty quick because once you're up there in skill, it's a lot easier to pick up other arts. So you can do it! :D
@@HangmanActual it’s my flexibility that I’ll need to work on. Even now my lack of flexibility is a gigantic liability.
This was good. As a Kyokushin Karate and Chung Do Kwan TKD practitioner from the 1970s I see TKD has changed for the worst. It was once pretty hardcore. Oh well.
Show the old footage of "hardcore" TKD. TKD has never been hardcore lol
@@iROChakri Yeah, it was. I came up in a era when everything wasn't captured on video, but I know from experience. My particular TKD instructor was a Korean Vietnam war veteran from the "Tiger division" and training was hard, there may be footage of some 1970s on RUclips, I just know what I did and saw, besides many U.S. Vietnam war veterans who competed in the karate tournaments of that era were trained in TKD. Sh*t wasn't soft then.
People who say “TKD was never hardcore” haven’t seen any history from before the turn of the century. 90s university-level TKD was intense enough that they wore two body guards/pads for partnered kick training. 80s and earlier was before they tried to adapt TKD (at least in South Korea) into something that might be picked up by the Olympics, because there were TKD demonstrations at the Olympics from… 1988 I believe. Some people after that did try to retain their older serious roots, but competition was and is popular (same as being a casual who just wants to have fun) - and the competitions specialised in perceived effect on the opponent [ie. singular kicks and not much else], until even that disappeared from 2010 onwards with the electric hogu / pads.
@@jonharker9028true , Olympics have ruined karate and tkd😢😢
TKD guy #3 got hit so hard it actually crashed my PC. Ok, it was probably a complete coincidence and more likely related to a failing stick of RAM, but still.
I 'studied' TKD for about 3 months just after I turned 40. Not a midlife crisis or anything, I got dragged there by a friend at work. I enjoyed it a lot - the instructor was cool, I got some great exercise, and just hanging out in that environment was a lot of fun, but I never thought for a second that I was now some kind of ready-for-the-mean-streets badass. 8.5/10, would definitely do again.
That’s crazy your PC crashed when TKD guy got hit hard.
100%. TKD is super fun, people should definitely consider practicing it because it's fun, and also have a realistic mindset as to how applicable it is outside of TKD rules. It's that balance of self-awareness.
I dragged my friends to tkd but turned out the club is this super traditional non Olympic club where we spend one hour of just continuous sit ups for conditioning, everything is super hardcore, and we sometimes wear pads just so we don't completely wreck our bones. All my friends quit, but there was something so addictive about the discipline and philosophical lessons being taught that I can't find at a commercial martial arts place.
No denying that the TKD guys have great kicks, but the Kyokushin guys are so damn tough. They just eat the hits and march on forward.
They're like Tanks. But if we compare their punches and kicks to Boxers and Taekwondo practitioners, those 2 have them beat.
Kyokushin have much better kick than TKD
TKD look flashier for sure
@@phanhuyduc2395 Some TKD kicks can be useful to catch people off guard if used properly.
I feel like Kyokushin Kicks are generally more Linear.
@@eagleye2893 kyokushin roundhouse is a hybrid between karate and muaythai kick. Their low kick is basically Thai lowkick. They usually can roundhouse kick you to the face at very close range thus more pratical than TKD where you have to keep some distance .
@@phanhuyduc2395 Perhaps. But in a Conventional MMA scenario. Most people are already looking out for Muay Thai Style Low Kicks and Roundhouses. Let alone Kyokushin.
No one is expecting a well timed Tornado Kick to the head after conditioning your opponent to guard yet another Roundhouse.
It always comes down to durability in these things. The TKD guys are glass cannons. Capable of dealing damage but not taking the same level of punishment as the Kyokushin guys.
Yea they have to learn to kite
TKD guys need to dodge more but have a larger variety of Kicks that when used right, can be devastating. Karate is more well rounded. But unlike Boxing and Taekwondo they neither excel nor lack in either Striking Department.
The way TKD fighters effortlessly fall to the ground at there own admission after every missed spin kick sets them up for that ez ground n pound submission. Like taking candy from a baby.
Unless they lean some BJJ? 🤔 then, it would be a trap! lol
My advice as a practioner of TKD myself, is know the basics. Know that TKD has part of its roots in karate. TKD means way of the HAND and foot so train both. Forget wtf and itf in regards to fighting and remember TKD originally came from the battlefield although it was called something else. Prepare for all ranges of combat. That means having at least some training in grappling to be able to defend against it. Whether you're facing boxing, karate, muay thai, or grappling, study and prepare for the strategies those styles use.
taekwondo doesnt have its roots in karate. karate got introduced during the warring states period and was used as a supplement to TKD.
@@morijinsbrother During the Japanese occupation of Korea, Korean martial arts were banned from being practiced even though some still trained in them secretly. There were also many Korean teachers that studied karate and other Japanese arts and infused them with their own arts. After the Japanese occupation was over Korea wanted its own identity including martial arts bringing about the name taekwondo. This why I said its roots are in karate. The founder of my school of taekwondo Song Moo Kwan, Byung Jik Ro was a direct student of Gichin Funakoshi, founder of Shotokan karate.
@@shamaraban82 taekwondo during the warring states period was originally a folk martial art. and the earliest use of the word taekwondo actually takes place in 1840. im not saying karate was not a big influence in taekwondo, but not its roots. being somethings roots means its the foundation it was built on. karate was used to refine what taekwondo already had, as an amalgamation of a few korean martial arts already. however after the warring states period many korean practitioners did go to japan to learn karate and incorporated what they learned there into the traditional korean martial art, that was mainly passed down through senior members of the community than any master student relationship
@@morijinsbrother Interesting point about the term taekwondo dating back as early as 1840. I've never heard that before. Could you send a reference for me to look into that? I'm aware of the folk art taekkyon you spoke about unless you're talking about something else. I know there were a few names that were used for Korean martial arts before the name taekwondo came about. I was speaking more on the term you used "refined" taekwondo we know today. The version that was used in war and not the modern sport, which I hate.
@@shamaraban82 yeah sure. theres a channel called traditional taekwondo tv that goes into detail on this subject and has a whole series based on it, which is where im getting most of my information from. although the first use of the term taekwondo was used in a book in 1840s referring to a branch of taekkyon that was different to what was taught elsewhere
because kyokushin karate is a full contact martial art, physical endurance is prioritized, hard as a rock because of sanchin breathing exercises , press the opponent without stopping, minimal attacks but deadly,
Tell me more about the breathing exercises
Kyokushin karate = specializes in close range combat. Extreme body conditioning & extreme workout for strength. Can take a lot of hits because of their close range style. And move a slower in general because higher stances = smaller steps & they fight close, no need to move fast. Most other styles of karate prefer mid range or longer range combat = wider stances = bigger steps = leap in leap out, “fighting from the outside” (we call it point-fighting style). We fight & move faster. Managing distance is important in karate. And being karatekas, we all train the same stances and shift to wider/higher stances to change our ranges. I see the Kyokushin guys started close, realized they had to fight in and out point-fighting style to get further to avoid the kicks. George’s St Pierre is also a Kyokushin. But he uses lower stances to and adopted “point fighting style” to fight in and out, because he knows boxing/Muay Thai based fighters fight close and he doesn’t want to get involved in a close range punching/kicking contest with them. We don’t have fancy flying kicks, only spinning kicks. But we don’t use them very much during competitions or set up bait or feints first, with punches or simpler straightkicks, then move in with a spinning kick or whatever when the opponent is off balance. Not just throwing aimlessly, since our karateka opponents are good at dodging, deflecting or catch the leg and can move in fast.. For that exact reason: if we hit on target it will probably be a knockout. But if we miss, we get off balance or fall flat on the floor. And they will definitely close range fast before you can recover and blitz the hell out of you (like Wonderboy/Machida). But since the Kyokushins have scary powerful strikes, a couple of liver punches seemed enough to knock someone down.
As someone who has years of training in both Kyokushin and Taekwondo, I can confidently say always bet on the Kyokushin fighter. Kyokushin practitioners are conditioned to fight in the pocket, exchange blows, and win by destroying the opponent’s body. I can only speak for WTF and not ITF Taekwondo, but in Taekwondo we did not receive that level of rigorous body conditioning nor did we ever get to feel a full contact body shot because we were forced to wear pads and armor.
This is a sick find!
Karate kyokushin é incrível. A resistência dos praticantes é impressionante.
If anybody says kyokushinkai fighters can't take punches to the face are wrong. George st piere did kyokushinkai and still does train and michael jai white is kyokushinkai and he still trains as well. Alot of kyokushinkai guys do k1 and win alot of the fights and there has been kyokushinkai fighters in mma.
Kyokushin don't F around, bruv.
Been there, done that.
First, you learn to have you ass kicked, to power through it.
Then, after you become built like a F'ing TANK, you get to know how to punch, kick, and take people who are going to hurt you, get hurt first.
Kyokushin is more alike Muay Thay than it is alike TKD.
Kyokushin is brutal. They also have spectacular head kicks. That's why they keep their hands up. When I trained kyokushin they were always yelling "keep your hands up"!
These weren't even top Kyokushin figthers and they were still tough as nails. The top Kyokushin fighters can kick your head off when you're in close range.
The rules really make all the difference. Kyokushin guys are tough as nails but I've seen dozens of videos on RUclips where they fight a MT or kickboxing guy who accidentally touches them in face on reflex and they freak out. It's a huge flaw that they don't train for the most common type of attack.
I agree that's why I want to train in Kyokushin since I already do Kickboxing. The reason why is that Kyokushin has more kicking techniques than kickboxing does and it has better conditioning plus it's more suited to MMA because Kyokushin Karate has judo in it
@@kennethkotelo893ot so much judo since there is no grappling allowed in sports kumite, you might do some grappling techniques, drills, ect. in some classes but it's not that common even in very legit schools, or in seminars you are deffinitely gonna see bunkai grappling stuff but i'm not sure about how deeply beacuse i have never gone to one until now honestly.
Kyokushin for life! Osu
Very good..years ago I had the honor of training with a Tang Soo Do Master in Harrisburg, PA. Tim Bai, he was incredible no one wanted to fight him. He was used to full contact fron the old world in Korea and Japan. He punched trees wrapped in rope etc...He could leap 6ft vertically and execute flying roundhouse and sidekicks...he almost broke my ledt big toe showing me how to effectively use a low block...I question if even Bruce Lee could of beat him..he wore glasses thick as a coke bottle bottom..this was in the seventies...axe marks on his back from gang fighting...Tae Kwon Do as taught in the modern era is not a Martial Art...lessons from Tim saved my life several times on the street.
Wow! Tell us more please!
Old school tkd is is deadly
oooh nice, looks like once they got into close range that was it, they entered the Kyok pain zone!
All the spin kicks are useless when you get one good liver punch or one round house kick to your thigh 😂
kyokushin practitioners are trained to have tough body to receive any punches and kicks
3 Martial Arts to avoid when choosing an art:
TKD
Wing Chun
Aikido
MA that fucks opponents up badly:
Muay Thai
Kyukushin
Judo
Jiu Jutsu
Oh my god. The way he just "osu" at around 1:00 is so King of Fighters. Ha ha ha ha ha!
Well, never mind then. It seems they all do that at the end of each match. Ha ha!
I thnk one of the guys with blond hair and orange gi is a kyokushin figter, at least what i heard,
Taekwondo should get rid of the protectiv gears. Just like in Kyokushin. This allone would give Taekwondo much more reapect in the world of martial art
Kyokushin students are conditioned like rocks as brawlers. Check out their black belt gauntlets. They arguably hit harder than MT to the body and legs. TKD has zero conditioning regimen. Once you bridge past the kicking range, it's like passing the guard in BJJ--their weapons become ineffective. TKD is great for distance management, timing, and the surprise attacks, but it has no other fundamental techniques that are effective.
I do Kyokushin and trust me it is one of the toughest form of martial arts in striking arts and against TKD which is a semicontact point system shit, thats not gonna work! we r trained to get hit before we learn to hit!! osu
As a long time Taekwondo Master I can say this depiction is not accurate. As a kid, we used to go to one of Steve Arneil's Kyuksushinkai clubs for the full contact sparring - they were like walking punchbags. Later on, win adulthood, I organized a community martial arts demonstration, which included displays of Judo, Jiu Jitsu, Kyuksuhinkai, Kung-Fu and Tai Chi - all were invited to participate in full contact sparring matches with Taekwondo Students, all refused.
You crack me up. 🤣
I grew up doing TKD. If I have kids, I'm enrolling them in Kyokushin
Kyokushinkai Karate is the top in the martial arts.
Against a Taewondo dude you try to close the distances well by using lateral movements, working angles, to avoid their spin kicks, and you use 2, 3 and 4-punch combos; body/head, head/body, straights, hooks...with good weight transfers behind them. Nasty calf kicks with the rear leg and from both stances here and there as well. Using both stances is a good thing against them.
Social media: "Taekwondo and karate isn't "real fighting." Only MMA is real fighting. Everything else is BS because all humans are grappling experts."
I practice both kyokushin and wing chun, and i can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you can't make wing chun effective, then you dont know wing chun. Wing chun is very technical, and those who can't make it work typically misunderstand application. Much like TKD, you also see these guys often dont pressure test their skills. Its all on the training. Kyokushin training can be brutal and actually conditions you for abuse and aggression. Learning multiple arts is useful. The strengths of one compensates for the weaknesses of the other and vise versa. Tapping into a little wing chun in class gives me a large speed advantage when training with my classmates. It's arrogant to think you have nothing to learn from a different art.
The Taekwondo style is silly - you give them a target and they always take it, they can't resist it, and then before they kick they send this text message from left field and your phone beeps and they're like, hey that, I'm launching this, its coming...it's so dumb.
Very funny analogy
Thanks for posting this. It illustrates exactly why I'm not angry with my former sabumnim for dismissing from her dojang for "having too much not Taekwondo in my style." Don't get me wrong! She was amazing! But she got tired of me beating her black belts with my hybridization of Taekwondo and the other styles I have trained in. She basically said "Taekwondo or Taekwon-DON'T. And if you choose the second one, you have to leave." So I left. No fear, no regrets.
I think most Taekwondo practitioners are not trained to withstand the painful punches and kicks from the Kyukushin, because most Taekwondoin train for self-defense and only do martial arts. not many tae kwondoin have gone into the professional freestyle arena full body contact and hard... some of the hard-hitting tae kwondo figures include Serkan Yilmas from Turkey, Lawrence Kenshin
Taekwondo is like a glass cannon with huge cooldown timer. The 3rd TKD guy put a good fight but get exhausted doing too much kick. When they do fancy kick they fall down to ground, the wrestler, Judo & BJJ people will submit them on the ground
The Karate guys throw less kick, more punches, more effective. The first 2 Karate guys won via punch.
Yeah. As a TKD practicioner myself, it's best to save your fancy kicks after conditioning your opponent, as just doing a series of kicks alone can slowly toil away at your stamina.
There's no shame in doing beginner level kicks often. I speak as a black belt that has done as few spinning kicks in sparring as possible.
Can we get live commentary on the Musk Zuckerberg fight? Por favor
Its it actually happening?
@@FightCommentary uh hard as it is to believe, but it seems increasingly likely. Fortunately or unfortunately :/
It's all in how the style is taught, and for what purpose. TKD was a LOT more dangerous in the 80s when it was taught to obliterate the opponent and break his ribs or kick his head into the next postcode.
Kyokushin is better conditioned: they fight bare-knuckle full-pelt to the body. Those guys can take a punch.
TKD guys often try to get fancy, but it's the fast and hard basics that win fights. Their kicks are second to none in terms of form or how they can kick from almost any position. Teach them to mostly fight to cause damage and really set up those kicks, and they'll be a scary opponent.
Kyokushin ... utter beasts.
I practice shotokan karate & filipino sikaran... i blv in kyokushin...
I just switched to Kyokushin after 20+ years of shotokan and boy oh boy... kyokushin is brutal. Not only they give focus on endurance and strike hard as a mule (way harder than it seems on videos), their close range combat is super intimidating for long ranged martial arts like shotokan or Taekwon do. One impressive thing is that they can kick at super short distances, including head kicks. Super intimidating.
I'm From a ITF Taekwon Do background and we use to compete against Kyokushin from time to time. We won a few, we lost a few, overall, it was about 50/50, the Main difference, was that the Kyokushin guy's would just keep coming forward, and they can take a hit. They train for it. You have to train your body to take a hit. If not, your setting yourself up for failure. Also the rules your fighting under can have a huge bearing on the outcomes. Mostly we competed under their rules. Which we sometimes struggled with the no punches to the face.
I question if Kyokushin is traditional. Mas Oyama was Korean and kyokushin itself was not one of the Ryu that had a direct lineage from Japan or Okinawa clans. It’s a synthesis of many of those styles developed by a Korean. It’s taekwondo with more contact a squared off stance and different rules.
?????
Wrong, oyama trained goju ryu and shotokan under the the founder of shotokan and went to challenge muay thai fighters from thailand and lost but then chaged the style ( oyama kyokushin style) to better deal with them, and they one 2 out of 3 fihts if i remember correctly, that's why it looks like muya thai a bit , kyokushin origins come from goju and shotokan cause same katas , just ask a old kyokushin master and you'll learn a bit more
@RealLifeManOfSteel do you know which karate style all of the founders of the taekwondo Kwans studied in before they developed taekwondo? My point was not that Oyama ( Choi Yong I) studied taekwondo but that he did something similar to the Korean founders of taekwondo.
Karate guys are definitely much tougher than TKD fighters
low kicks are the demise of TKD fighters. The karateka just need to wait for the kick and then answer with a low kick to the thigh. After 3 or 4 of these, the TKD guy cannot kick anymore
Back when i was in karate we fought Taekwondo,s guys easy leg trap sweeps, ashin barai they have no defence against this
kyukodhin kai is tough sport even in Japan
If you put the hardening of kyokushin and low kicks into taekwondo literally at the time of combat, taekwondo and kyokushin are almost the same, you just have to watch the video to realize... Since a large part of taekwondo comes from shotokan karate .
Ancient taekwondo put more emphasis on grappling and realistic combat (it was super similar to old school shotokan karate) until it became just an unrealistic sport.
taekwondo outdates shotokan karate by almost a hundred years. although it wasnt the complete martial art it is now the first instances we see of TKD take place in the 1840s. meanwhile shotokan was founded in the 1930s. true taekwondo has been influenced by karate, but its not the same.
@@morijinsbrother Thanks for the info bro! In the same way, taekwondo seems to me to be a martial art that disturbs in a realistic way and for real fights it is super effective, you just have to see it in the ufc and how is it that their kicks do work, you just have to practice and put a little more emphasis on the blows (in the case of WT) but the truth is that I do not understand the lower price of taekwondo, it seems to me an effective martial art although it is not at the level of muay thai or kyokushin karate, but taekwondo practiced for real fights has already proven to be effective And more if it is mastered to its full potential...
Face punches... tha makes big difference. This is kyokushin style. Sure, kyokushin will do better. It's still sports.
A Kyokushin master put about 5% into a kick while showing me some techniques. It still felt like I got hit by a truck. Terrifying power.
Difference is because kyokushan karate is a martial art while Taekwondo is a sport... Being good at giving but very poor at taking hits!
Time and time again, TKD itself is proving that it is a safe space martial art - basically like a Ballet Dance. TKD is just for kids, for fitness of the kids. But for combat? TKD is Useless.
The problem with TKD is it relies more on kicks than hands. A fighter who can control or get inside to lessen the effectiveness of one’s kicks and is better with their hands like a boxer, wing chun, aikido, judo, jujitsu, karate, Kenpo etc… is more likely to win the fight. Kicks are best used for parrying, or distance fighting but if you lack hand skills…you are toast.
Agreed. Having done TKD myself. You generally need to close the distance just to shut down the effectiveness of kicks.
While I do full contact it's with armor. And generally to compensate for the lack of proper guards, you are encouraged to dodge.
Edit: You definitely still have to watch out for the Spinning Kicks though, a good practicioner knows when to use a fancy high knockout power kick.
Otherwise, those kicks will keep you at a distance if you're ill prepared to work around them. Especially push kicks (I developed a love for the sidekick).
In these challenges between styles, it's all about training and rules. If a Taekwondo fighter faces a Kyokushin fighter under the Kyokushis rules, the result is obvious. If the rules were those of Olympic Taekwondo, the Kyokushi fighter and probably any other fighter of any other style would be embarrassed. These challenges are fun and instructive but cannot be overrated.
There was a world Sabaki champion that was Tae Kwon do. Which is a successor version of Kyokushin with Judo concepts. But he had to adapt his style to be able to have success. Its important for any style to understand their limitations and strengths and also how they would be able to go against other styles.
84 takewondo guys with 5 month old black belts watched this vid
different conditioning for different purpose. Kyokushin karate is condutioned for ko opponent while Taekwondo is conditioned for taking point in olympic competition.Even the taekwondo guys do simmilar with Kyokushin conditioning for 1 year as preparation they still lack behind mostly.
Those taekwondo and karate guys are so good🔥i wanna see them fighting Muay Thai guy from Thailand 🙈
Search Katsunori Kikuno Versus Kuntap Charoenchai and Chinzo Machida VS Cristiano Rosa.
Start with boxing for foundation.
Than move to kyokushin or muyi thai.
For ground may be judo is enough.
Kyokushin dojo is hard to find though.
Its important to understand, that all these fights are going by kyokushin rules and also that in those times russian national team of kyokushin was the strongest team in the world! They beated even a japanese team. So, kyokushin school in Russia is very-very strong.
So we see the strange competition, where strongest karatekas beat usual tkd-practicioners by karate rules. Its cruel and have no sence...
I don't ever remember being told to punch to the face in TKD. I think you get points if you punch to the body but it's less than a kick.
If you go by older WT rulesets, strikes must be "trembling-shock" visibly makig your opponents move or stagger or counter-so punches must be able to visibly make a person move for it to count.
Dude Los Angeles, Canada is my favorite place
Hey Jerry! Just confirming that "Taekwondokas" is absolutely the correct term for someone who does TKD
Good to know!
"Taekwondoin". Taekwondo is korean, adding "-ka" to refer to its practitioner is japanese.
@@mrstrdknmabalz1412 that makes sense, I've only ever heard *doka not *doin but it does sound more Korean that way. Like the suffix(?) "Nim"
Right body shot then a left to the liver, that was textbook Karate man stuff.
1:48 nuh uh, im not delusional
Kyokushin make you as hard as a rock 🥋🗿 osū
I am considering learning both. Kyokushi. (or shotokan) and TKD
Comment 20 on video catching up
The third match was my favorite, kudos to the TKD Guy for doing so well for a while 😄🥊.
01:11 Taekwondo-in or Taekwondo-ja. Not Taekwondo-ka. In my fights, I use Wing Chun blocks, Karate punches & Taekwondo Footwork & Kicks.
The TKD dobak looks WT and yes you can't punch to the head in WT.
Two things - the Taekwondo guys were clearly WT practitioners. Second, IDK what the ruleset was but in terms of legal strikes, this was the full kyokushin arsenal. This also includes all legal taekwondo moves, but with the addition of leg kicks and knees, which are illegal in taekwondo. Taekwondo also uses body, leg, and head armour. In other words this was basically taekwondo athletes trying to compete under kyokushin conditions. Also no weight classes apparently, which I think matters much more than the fact that the TKD athletes came from one city.
In general WT practitioners will have less body conditioning for sure and less experience with unprotected strikes, so the emphasis on training is less about effective ways to deal damage and more about scoring points. I imagine if they did away with the armour, taekwondo would eventually morph into something that looks more like kyokushin since practitioners would actually have to deal with pain from body punches, something they don't need to care about with armour. Still the issue with no leg kicks and knees, and the point system... but I do think removing the armour would be a decent first step to making tkd more legit. They'd need to start caring about dealing consistent and reliable damage instead of just the kicks that score well.
I did 8 years of judo, then 3 of french style boxing (kinda similar to kickboxing), and now 2 years ITF (ongoing). In a tkd spar I will respect the tkd rules.
In a real fight i can mix theses, i would start with a low kick, then medium/high kick, and punches. Can use judo to put the guy down too.
I think it’s completely pointless to compare martial arts that way. None are perfect, they are not meant to attack someone, these are meant to give you some keys to defend yourself. If you get multiple keys, you can defend yourself properly. If you stick to the inly ones your martial art offers, you have more chance to get taken down by an attacker because these dudes won’t care about distance and not hitting your back. We should all remember these martial arts are not science but only keys you can use
I think they should allow 5 seconds of ground fighting. Getting pounded on the ground as punishment for attempting and missing a flashy kick.
And perhaps 3-5 seconds of clinch work as well as allowing throws.
I would disagree with Taekwondo guys being as delusional as Wing chun guys. A lot of us Taekwondo practitioners know that we don't stand a chance against most striking styles like Kyokushin and Muay Thai
Maybe you’re right. And without a doubt most TKd people can beat wing chun people. So with that in mind: Aikido guys are number one in overestimating their abilities, wing chun guys number two, TKD number three, and American Kenpo guys number four. How does that ranking sound?
@@FightCommentary From what I've seen Systema guys might be as bad as Aikido guys. Those two stand far above the rest imo.
@@FightCommentary sounds fair enough
Oh yeah! I forgot about systema!!!
@@FightCommentary How could you?! 😂
I'm mildly hyped on the next Rizin where that ex- kyokushin world champ guy (Ueda) fights again. You really don't see those scary yet beautiful kicking skills these days.
the main issue i find with TKD is that they don't drill into student to always keep their hands up to protect their head
karate also has this issue most of the time though (although this is mostly handled via distance management)
@@elenchusi mean, you could say the same about Taekwondo! They are all about distance
@@jestfullgremblim8002 Totally agree, it's just I haven't really seen that applied at the highest levels yet, whereas you can find a lot of great karatekas in the UFC, Bellator, etc. that are able to pull this off against elite strikers reliably. I would actually say TKD fighters were more evasive in my experience. They are so incredibly light on their feet. However, when I see this put to the test, the TKD guy usually eats a lot of punches. To be honest, you can see this when kyokushin guys go do full contact with face punches too. Oddly, I find it's the less combat-intensive shotokan and shito-ryu guys that are doing the best distance management.
The big issue for TKD trying to pull off these kinds of tactics in, say, MMA or full contact kickboxing, is that the attacks are so incredibly high commitment that I don't think you're going to be able to create space again reliably enough. Most, if not all, of those jump kicks and many of the spin kicks, for instance, would have been badly punished in MMA.
@@elenchus exactly! You are pretty much right in everything you said
@@CoryPchajek yup
To fight TkD u just have to fight them closer with punches n render their kicks useless.Without their kicks they are useless.Thats why Muay Thay so effective against TKD.
Taekwondo and Kyokushin are my top favorites
This seems to be WTF-TKD style, they are used to fight with body armor and not used to be hit with punches in the body (uppercut/hook) unlike Kyokushin style. I cannot remember a time on my WTF-TKD days that we did not wear body armor when sparring. Only when our instructor is not around that we blackbelts have fun doing full contact sparring with body uppercuts and diving punch at close range. WTF-TKD does not allow punches to the head, only in the body. Same with Korean karate called Tang Soo Do (Moo Duk Kwan/Soo Bahk Do). Damn, old school TKD is much more fun than modern TKD :P