Christian Mysticism Explained: With Dr. Sam Storms
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 3 авг 2024
- Christian Mysticism Explained: With Dr. Sam Storms
Dr. Sam Storms is back! And he is with us to discuss the history of Christian Mysticism. I noticed that Sam just published a blog and Podcast on Christian mysticism, and it just so happens that I have been reading a few of the mystic writings myself. So we decided to do a much-needed collaboration! We will start by defining the mystic tradition, Explaining the doctrines that are emphasized In mysticism, and taking a close look at the practices of the mystics. I suspect we will discuss mystics like Agustine, Teresa of Avila, St John Of The Cross, and whoever wrote the Cloud of Unknowing!
#remnantradio #christianmysticism
🌐📧 Visit our Website & Subscribe to our Newsletter: www.theremnantradio.com
![NoCap - Maliboo [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FUV7E0QyniU/mqdefault.jpg)
I really enjoyed the balanced take on mysticism, specifically the need to have both intellectual and spiritual development as a Christian, because they are not mutually exclusive.
If it wasn't for Christian 'mysticism', I wouldn't be here! When one faces chronic suffering / illness (and where healing doesn't seem to have happened yet and things are only getting worse in the physical), a supernatural touch from Jesus, a glimpse of Heaven, a sense of the reality of the Holy Spirit and a taste of the age to come, the supernatural joy of the Lord - this is what sustains you and keeps you sane!
Amen! ♥️💕
I feel this! Chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, pernicious anemia…I rest in the actual presence pf Abba. It feels healing in the moment.
I feel you. I know what you mean. I'll pray for you. Pleased do the same for me. The healing will come.
@@duncescotus2342 Thank you so much for saying that. We should all pray for each other. It’s weird knowing of genuine healings - knowing that God can heal, and encountering touches of Heaven that sustain - but also facing the felt “facts” of a long term, worsening condition (in this case, severe tinnitus, which is a whole other beast to “regular” tinnitus, and sound sensitivities and other things to do with the auditory nerves - in a musician no less!) I am around Christians who believe in healing and none of them have judged me or put the pressure on or anything, so I’m thankful for the love and balance of the church. At the same time, I can’t see how being incapacitated in this way brings Him too much glory, except in the fact He is sustaining us and we are comforted by the felt presence of the Holy Spirit. That is wonderful and true. Still, would like to be able to work, sleep, function, bear fruit in a more obvious way, and have a hope and a future in THIS life as well as the next! Too young to just be waiting for Heaven. Nonbelievers have also been confused as to how I keep believing despite what is going on. It does bring glory to God that I am able to share how He sustains me, but I do believe an actual healing would bring Him even more glory...Let’s indeed pray for one another!
@@Inharmonics Yes, my friend. We agree and rebuke that plan of the enemy to thwart us from yielding fruit in full measure for the kingdom. I will be lifting you up. I'm a disabled vet (mentally) so I know about tinnitus (number one veteran disability). Whenever I think about harmony, harmonics, music, listening, those kinds of things, God willing I will remember you. And if you think on IDK bad moods and low functioning people who have mental illness, remember me and my family. Thanks. In all things, may He be glorified, whether in sickness or in health.
And may our prayers be given a greater measure of weight in His kingdom which He is creating.
And it says somewhere, "pray one for another" and "confess your sins one to another that you may be healed." I can confess bitterness toward God for not healing me and others. And general default to worldliness because of it. And not walking in love to the brothers who believe so differently from me. So I repent of that.
Mysticism being a intimate and internal relationship with Jesus is what the majority of Christians are missing 👏
A majority of christians are not converted. They maybe Born Again, but Born Again is Not conversion.
Bro Lawrence has a great book, well it’s actually a collections of conversation and letters, called “The Practice of the Presence” that is actually really good. He basically talks about doing everything with God in mind doing all things because you love Him, keeping your mind focused on continually thinking of God and conversing with Him.
Who is Brother Lawrence?
@@republiccooper he was a Carmelite monk in the 17th century France.
Yep was missing that name in the initial line up, along with Francis Xavier.
I’ve also fallen out in the Spirit once in my life… I was at my home church and there was a guest preacher…. I went forward for prayer. No one laid hands on me, I jus put my hands up busted out in tongues and gracefully fell over backward… thankfully there was a catcher lol but it was amazing.. I didn’t try to fall, didn’t expect to fall, I simply fell 😇 things like this are wonderful because they remind us that He is always with us.
Sam Storms is wonderful. Thoughtful, spiritual, articulate and humble. A treasure.
I appreciate Josh’s honesty about his conflicts and wishing there was a proof text.
Yes. I was cracking up. Josh is usually so Protestant on the show I don't know if there's anything charismatic he would agree with sometimes. He described it perfectly though. I had a similar experience in the last year as I've walked away from the boundaries of the Assembly of God and let my "Lutheran" inner child out to play. Maybe I just got tired of waiting for Revival decided to wander off the reservation. In any case it is like Josh describes it
@@H.Nenningger I grew up AG myself went to Bible college and deconverted. Just came back to the Lord two years ago, almost settled into a Presbyterian church but I’m still figuring out my church home.
Brother Lawrence, 1600's, famous for the book 'Practicing The Presence of God' was an ordinary person who was a mystic, he had an extraordinary close relationship with God, the experiential love of God. His writings are perhaps the most accessible of all the famous mystic writers.
A healthy dose of mysticism is essential to the Christian faith. Peter and Andrew left their nets, not knowing exactly what lay ahead. Paul was hit with a heavenly light. Dreams, visions, and all manner of holy unctions abound. Miracles from cover to cover. And the "mystery that was hid from all the ages" is this: Christ in US, the hope of glory. But let's get down to the nuts and bolts of the faith, and be DOING what He tells us to do.
I think you guys identified 2 important aspects that distinguish between an encounter with God and human emotionalism. An insatiable appetite for the Word accompanies "mystical" encounters and they are experiences initiated by God, not by any human means or effort.
True!
Sometime last year I woke up in the middle of the night and I felt like someone was standing over me…. Not in a demonic way either… I felt this crazy intense peace and love and then it felt like this presence was giving a big hug… it’s really hard to describe but it was beautiful… zero doubt in my mind it was the presence of God 🙌🏻😇
The "danger" that Sam speaks of, especially for the newer Christian is a pride of self that GOD has granted this experience to one. I feel like I have experienced moments of this ecstatic joy that has always been followed with an caution to not take any kind of pride from the experience. I realize that this may be something that is only happening because of who I am, but I don't know for sure. Has anyone else experienced anything like this?
@Ev You know nothing about me or my background nor the situation in which I experienced a joy of understanding something about GOD or His Word. How is it then that you make judgements on what I do or do not practice?
This is an AWESOME episode!! You guys spoke on a topic that has put WORDS to my EXPERIENCE!! It was profound & he revealed himself to me, for the 1st time, in ways that I think many Christians are afraid of. I often say, "Don't put God in a box". He has never contradicted his word but like Josh says, I can't find it in scripture. I also know that not all knowledge is written in God's Word. To me, it was a precious time alone with God, during prayer, praise & worship. I was alone in my home when it occurred and I now have a few occurrences of experiential knowledge of my father in heaven. He's one awesome God! Thanks so much for speaking on this topic! What an awesome gift!!!❤❤❤😁😉👍🙌
How hilarious I just randomly thought today I should look into Christian mysticism, and searched it wanting to find a reliable source to get the basics and this gets posted. Awesome
absolutely love this--thanks. good to see reasonable Christians speaking of experiences that I have had, but almost never share
Thank you so much for struggling through this and sharing so openly. The topic is verboten, people having these experiences feel so out of place in the church…and feel sure they are experiencing some of the greatest insights into what it all about. My best description is we are piercing beyond the veil into the Holy of Holy and truly tasting some return to Eden as a foretaste for what is to come.
Christian mysticism is when the separation between the creator and the created is dissolved and the person becomes aware that the separation was always an illusion to begin with. We received our life and being from God as Paul says in Acts 17 we live and move and have our being in God. The life that is within us is God's life, we don't have a life of our own. The way to experience our Oneness or Union with God is by making God our one and only desire living according to the commands of Christ and contemplating the scriptures. Before people called it mysticism it was simply referred to as contemplation or theoria which is beholding God within our heart. We see God not with eyes of flesh but with the inner eye of the heart. God is found within the heart and it is in the heart that this union is realized. It is also fully accepting Gods Sovereignty over everything. The ego has to be completely dissolved and that happens as we follow Christ and give God the credit for our whole life. As Paul said it is no longer I but Christ. That is the vision of theoria, watchfulness. We become One with that which we love the most. What prevents people from being aware of God's presence is sin in their lives and/or false beliefs. Before we can enter into God's presence we must be radically honest with ourselves and to purify ourselves through obedience to the Word. Every habitual sin must be repented of.
I find Jeremiah 31:26 Thereupon I (Jeremiah) awoke and looked, and my (trancelike) sleep was sweet (in the assurance it gave to me). AMPC to be an explanation of experiences I have had when I am just experiencing God in a type of ecstatic encounter.
What I feel is that this is a state that pleases the Lord so much, when we rest in Him and give ourselves over to His presence and turn our thoughts toward Him, that He cannot resist us and He rewards us with more of Him. He loves us, we acknowledge His goodness and then we are met with a heavy dose of His loving presence, which increases our awareness of Him. We become entwined in a sort of sweet dance of reciprocal appreciation that carries us away into His Love.
Our faith in Jesus as the loving kindness of God and our diligence in seeking His presence is what prompts Him to reward us with deepening experiences in Him.
Great discussion. Appreciate the openness and humility shown by all in tackling this topic. I've recently started speaking in tongues and experiencing some of the beautiful manifestations of the Spirit described in the video. It's reassuring to hear other believers speak of having similar experiences.
As I've learned more about the gifts, Remnant Radio and particularly Sam have been a huge blessing in helping me correlate experience with the teaching of Scripture.
God bless you all. 🥰
Enjoying the show guys! Catholic dude here (of the Roman rite). Just wanted to say as Catholics we believe the sacraments are the primary means of imparting grace but we do not believe God is bound to them in any way. He can and imparts grace as he sees fit. 😀
Teresa of Avila also talks about how essential times of silence with God is. She was John of the Cross’s mentor.
Thank you for this 🙏🏼
Thank you so very much 👍😊🙏.
The timing of this video is so perfect. I have been struggling with my love of the biblical fundamentals as well as my love for what the mystics had to say. And I agree that we should be able to take the beauty of what they said and leave behind the questionable theology without it all being considered heretical. This is the video I needed to confirm for me and which direction my RUclips channel I’m gonna make will go in. I’m just truly thankful for all three of you for making this great informative video, bringing light to such a beautiful section of Christianity many are unaware of, and helping me on a personal note.
The "sweater vest" comment in the thumbnail got me here. D'oh!! You guys made me fall for a funny thumbnail again. 😆
Don't forget Brother Lawrence, Fenelon, Guyon and Molinos.
Love Dr. storms.
I have been down this path in relation to constant prayer (fellowship) and spending time in the word. During these times He has gloriously showed up and taught truths from His word shining His life and revelation of their meaning. It happens for me in "suddenlys". The experience in of itself is not sought, but comes as the hunger to visit with God and spend more time with Him in prayer increases.....what is continually revealed is inexhaustible, however, I continually ask for explanations from the word of God.
Sister, bless you! Your words and sincerity have ministered to my soul. How can we ever have enough of the LORD intellectually or emotionally? The best place we can spend our time in this world is in eternity with our LORD Jesus, who is God of both time and eternity.
Just the other day I watched a video by one of your critics who is a Christian brother that condemns seeking “experiences” or cautions against tuning into our emotions regarding spirituality.
In the video I watched, he argued that Eve made her decision to eat the forbidden fruit because of emotions, which I personally could not confirm in the text. He used this as an example of why we should not participate in emotional, spiritual practices.
As I’ve been reading the Bible this year I’ve been marking scriptures that speak to human emotion and also God’s emotions and attributes. I honestly don’t understand how someone can possibly read the Bible and come away concluding that emotions and experiences with God are bad!
It seems that perhaps because of examples of people “taking things too far” that some prefer to throw the baby out with the bath water.
Anyway, I choose to serve God wherever he leads me. He makes it clear in scripture that he cares about the heart, our sincerity, and about having relationship with Him, even though He is GOD and we are mere humans. It’s amazing he wants intimacy with us! I don’t see how you can be open to those things if you completely throw out emotions and experiences. I will serve him in times of emotional experiences and times when things don’t feel that way. I’m not seeking him because of the emotions and experiences, I am seeking Him because He is God. And when I meditate on the word and think about the sacrifice He’s made, how can I not possibly find that moving?
I'm with you 100%. Excellent thoughts!
As I’m watching this I can completely relate to the experiences that have been shared. Coming to know Christ as a 5 year old child I have since an adolescent into adulthood have had numerous ex with the divine presence of God. I am just know I’m this video learning of the term mysticism. I give myself to continuing to learn scripture and truth of Gods Word in the anticipation of learning more of who He is that I may experience Him in an even deeper level.
I think that you are getting really close to aligning with the orthodox faith. A lot of what you’ve been discussing lately seems to be in alignment with and is really represented in orthodoxy.
I hope you consider doing an episode on how orthodoxy fits in with some of the things you’ve been discussing in past episodes with the church fathers, theosis, and mysticism. And perhaps a second episode on how orthodoxy still has some areas that are not in alignment with your Christian beliefs.
I think it would help you personally to discover perhaps something that may be better suited for you and at the same time help your viewers understand the similarities and differences between these topics and orthodoxy.
Thank you for all of your hard work and the great content that you’re releasing regularly.
Wow excellent teaching!! I seek His face not His hand thru worship with His names...Malachi 3. But I also had to dive deep into His Word. I learned from Dr. Michael Heiser, Dr. Michael Brown, Perry Stone, Bill Cloud, Dr. Hollisa Alewine and now you guys. Lots of confusion out there. Thank you!!
I have found myself asking "Jesus what does that mean...?" When reading the word. As was mentioned I have asked "what does it mean when Paul said "Christ in me...? And other passages that I might be able to have an intelligent understanding (which ain't wrong) but a true knowing. I have always enjoyed A.W Tozer and it was through him I found out about these "mystics" but never really looked in to anything along them lines. But after listening to to this here talk I find I seem to be in mighty good company in some of the questions and thoughts and feelings I have had. I don't make sense to me and yet there is a knowing in my knower if I can put it that way. To know that some of the experiences I have had seem to line up with what I have heard today and even read about. I admit I have had my apprehensions and not wanting to be deviced or lead as astray especially cause I was raised up in fundamental baptist churches that this kind of talk would cause them to dang near pass out from their blood pressure boiling over. So in the learning there is also an unlearning that I'm finding. Ain't arrived nor obtained but "this one thing I do..."
Gonna pressing on and in trusting that the Spirit of Truth will lead and guide me.
Grace and shalom and thank you for addressing this topic
I had one of these after your interview with Shane & Shane, while listening to "King Beetle on a Coconut Estate" on your recommendation
My Guy! What I say, Im Just saying!
BE STILL….. and KNOW that I Am God😊
Josh nailed it. Knowing God personally vs knowing about Him from head knowledge.
You can't know Him personally without having head knowledge of God
If you don't have the head knowledge who knows what god you're Knowing personally
This was SO good. This is my resolution this year.. to experience God not just know theologically about him.
Thanx, Gentlemen 🌹🌹🌹
I have had these kinds of experiences from just worshipping God in my car. I have always been obsessed to music and God has used that as a means for me to experience him. I think a lot of the methods aren't universal because God wants a personal relationship with us so he engages us personally.
Listening to hillsong or bethel music?
@@JohnGodwin777 both ... God is in their music.
What I love about the unknowable nature of God is Job 36:26 tells us God is great and we do not know Him. Which should provoke us to search Him out even though we could spend our entire life searching God and would never exhaust a grain of sand in the vastness of God yet we will fully know Him in eternity.
I think John Mark Comer would be a great guy to bring on for this topic. His sermons at Bridgetown church were full of quotes and ideas from the mystics without going beyond orthodoxy. Love the show thanks guys!
In my brief studies of Orthodox fathers’ mystical practice I found that their practice is equivalent to Hindu advaita vedanta practices which I was a practitioner of before I was saved by God. These are gnostic/pagan/satanic practices that infiltrated into the church.
Sola scriptura! Don’t follow the teachings of men.
I think I'm a christian mystic just instinctively. They really resonares with me.
You know the ocean but not the depths of the ocean. An example of God's love for us.
“Faith Misguided: Exposing the Dangers of Mysticism” By Arthur L. Johnson provides some good counter perspective. This book is now several decades old and foreshadows what has occurred subsequently.
Why would God give this sense of not realizing what's around you/us? Why would He give us this sense of "ecstacy"? well to give us peace far beyond our understanding. To show us He loves us. Some ppl connect with God with great understanding others connect with great spiritual pull&longing(my understanding of how to explain what I feel) or emotional connection.
..even ppl who don't witness or experience those who intellectually "understanding the scripture have been fooled (by them self or something else) everyone is working that out("working out our own salvation")
..I love this episode. Been listening/watching for a while and don't tend to comment on RUclips just wanted to encourage you all that this program brings a lot to think and pray about.
Would be good to put a solid bibliography in the notes for this episode or for us Patreon Members ;-). I’d like to certainly do some reading on this but we need some guidance in terms of texts to start with
I know i've had, and have, mystical experiences in my relationship with our Lord Jesus Christ, and even with the presence of The Holy Ghost when He's moving me in the cause of Christ
To me a mystical experience with Jesus is but a deep and reasonable reciprocation of the depth of His union with us!
What did Jesus say to Paul about his persecution of human Christians? ... He said, "Saul why are you persecuting ... ME!?" ... And how about His intimacy with His own at Matt. 25:31-40? ... Jesus said, "‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these My brethren, you did for ... ME.”!
Our Jesus is so close to us individually and collectively that He feels whatever effects us ... To me Christian mysticism is when a believer feels the same way about Jesus, especially so when Jesus is being abused, and as in my case when it's His own who are doing the abusing to other believers ... To me what's strange about this so called "mysticism" is that there's less of it amongst His Bride!
My mystical experiences with our Master is why i've become so intune to being "loving" to my fellow siblings in Christ ... Jesus feels what we feel! ... So again, why don't more of us mystically feel what He feels!?!?
I will tell you this for sure in closing, and in particular to His Body segment here in America!
We are not making our Blessed Savior feel good. - Rev. 3:14-22
WE ALL NEED TO REPENT!
I'm not sure if replying to my first post is allowed, but Remnant Radio I love you guys for the topics you discuss that really need to be brought to the fore.
This topic of 'Christian mysticism' has struck me in such a manner as to unction me to leave another comment ... I fell off to sleep last night talking to our Lord about this, and woke up to it.
American Christianity may be 1,582 miles north to south and 2,800 miles east to west, but we're only about 3" deep when it comes to our diving deep into the mysteries of our everlasting life saving union with Jesus, via the will of the Father, and the power and might of the Holy Ghost!
I guarantee you if any saint, especially we self assured, self absorbed, self righteous rich and in need of nothing American saints, actually meditated on the Words of Jesus and the Epistles, and the supernatural Groom/Bride love union between Him and ourself, with the same intensity and devotion we pay attention to our phones, we'd have mystical/supernatural experiences too, because there is no way any of us saved couldn't if we actually allowed the Holy Ghost to anoint our eyes with Jesus "eyesalve"
to open up our spiritual vision to just what and who we are in, and to, Jesus Christ, and how nauseatingly lukewarm we actually are.
But no, we have Jesus on the outside of our busy (burdened under Satan's yoke) lives knocking to get into the hearts of we whom He's already fully bought and paid for with the ultimate price - His shed blood on Calvary.
Jesus own us, Jesus loves us, Jesus feels us, thinks about us, cares about us, to me the ability to have mystical experiences in Him is to simply but profoundly return His affection 100% in like manner.
Our problem my fellow saints in America is the majority of us are of the "Jesus this is what I need You to do for me" club, while those few in the "Jesus what is it that You need me to do for You" club are branded as having
hyper-faith, unreasonable spiritual goals, unrealistic spiritual expectations, and mystics, when many who are designated as such are simply 'believers' exhibiting the "mind of Christ" - 1 Cor. 2:12-16, Rom.12:2, Eph. 2:6,7, 1 Pet. 2:9
JESUS HELP US! - Rev. 3:19
I agree with what you guys are saying about emptying your mind being similar to the eastern method of meditation.
There was a time in my life when looking back, I believe I had a stronghold of believe. Every thought that came into my mind was filtered through a lie. I had many times in prayer when I did not say anything outside of Jesus I love you and I worship you. I think this over a prolonged period of time changed my mentality and I think God used it to empty my mind of the lie.
I believe my thoughts were so chaotic and excessive that I needed to calm down in my mind and be able to be still.
Just my experience, but I’m wondering if it sounds too far out there?
Dr storms was awesome. He was not only answering all the questions but was insightful as well. While christianity is too cerebral people today want to feel god whether it comes with chatsmatics singing and hare Krishna dancing.. infeel the church doesn't want mysticism because then nobody will come to church. Church needs community. I feel only abfew people get to be mystics that too after struggling and seeking god. Above all mystics are tolerant and loving and peaceful . We sorely need a dose of mysticism today to unite people
Ypur cerebral propositional religions are divis fividing people and encouraging the deadly conflicts that are pushing us near the end times. This was an excellent podcast with the interviewers steering the dialogue to cover all aspects about the subject
I was taught that emotions and feelings were dangerous to the faith. This conversation is almost shocking except I have had a few incidents that I would never share with "religious" people.
Bromigos, where is the link to the e-book? Would love to start reading that!
“Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God.”
Romans 5:1-2 ESV
“and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.”
Romans 5:5 ESV
John of the Cross well aware of the Eucharist as the Bread of Life wrote this:
"This eternal spring is hidden
in this living bread for our life’s sake,
although it is night.
It is here calling out to creatures;
and they satisfy their thirst, although in darkness,
because it is night.
This living spring that I long for,
I see in this bread of life,
although it is night.
This happens to me, when i totally focus on Jesus in Worshop and when ever God initiates it.
A great post-reformation mystic worth reading is Madame Guyon. Her autobiography is captivating.
Psalm 46:10 is the support for the quiet/still prayers imo. It also appears to be prescriptive
Liking what I hear so far, but ur website available. ?
Having myself many of the lives of those mentioned I would say there comes across as alien to the glorious gospel of The Lord Jesus Christ. There is an underlying sense of something that is not right. I have been a Christian for 58 years coming from a very dysfunctional non Christian family. Through many years of walking with The Lord through life with its sunshine, its storms, some pretty rough and challenging, I have known the Presence of God through obedience to His Word. I know the faithful assurance of Christ Jesus and His finished work on the cross and the power of the promised Holy Spirit. I know the love of God at working in me. Without these unbiblical practices and eastern influenced meditation I know what god wants me to know….the secrets things belong to God, the things revealed belonged to me. These mystics did not lead normal human lives but retired away from the responsibility of living in the real world. Visions, hearing the voice of god, praying to and adoring Mary, emptying their minds. Not sleeping or lying down for weeks or months on end. No, mysticism is a very dangerous path to go down.
He says not to empty the mind, but fill it with thoughts of God.
I'm at 36:46 and just before this he said that he's aware that evangelicals are scared of that (idk.. euphoric ) spiritual experience. I can so identify. I was a new Christian and was on public transportation at the time. I had to tell the Spirit in my head, no! I can't! This is too much for me! I now regret that because I want to see him change my mind, my way, my everything..but dude! It scares me. God's character is so all or nothing...I feel like.
As for "knowing the unknown" God did say that he will reveal mysteries to us and society in general has history that has been held back from us. So a lot is unknown to us in this age and generation. It's up to the Holy Spirit to teach, reveal and raise us up to maturity.
What if what we call mysticism is really is just plain and simple relationship. What if it is what the church is lacking. Not just knowledge but experiential knowledge. To actually experience what we say we believe. I know why we fear this stuff because of a fear of deception. But if we keep our eyes on one thing only -“to know HIM” , we would trust Him.
I really enjoy Sam's honest view of others and himself at about minute 58:30. I enjoy and find strength in the truth shared by Dan Mohler, after this discussion, which was a good one guys, if Dan would fit in the Mystic category, although Dan would probably reject categories or labels of this sort. I don't represent him or his position so forgive me if I'm speaking in ignorance, just wondered if anyone was familiar with the minsitry and would agree.
Thank you, enjoying the show, my question would be,
1. does God want a exclusive spiritual relationship with us?
2. Does worshipping other beings or objects, lead to frustration, destruction and confusion?
Yes & yes! Don’t let even the most spiritual man encourage you to venerate icons and saints. It’s not found anywhere in the Scriptures. To honor somebody is not to worship them.
The unknowability of God, at least how I understand it, is not that we may not have acquaintance with the God ahead, since the mystics certainly believe that we may intimately know God. Rather the unknowability of God refers to inability of God to be grasped and understood through human reason. God is meant to be known like a friend, through experience. One may now know many facts about Abraham Lincoln, but no one alive today can claim to know him, because they have no experience with him, no relationship. This is why salvation is said to be both by faith and through knowing God and his Son. Søren Kierkegaard is right in saying that the things which belong to faith are logical absurdities, because you cannot reason your way to them, but only reason your way around them. The sort of the faith which saves is the disposition of the heart that seeks to obtain that which it hopes for by means of that which it can never be certain of through mere reasoning.
I enjoyed this. Ephesians 3 is a 4-line equation from 3 words spoken to Moses. Just have to admit who was speaking from the bush.
You guys should get Eric Gilmour on. A modern day mystic, deeply rooted in the word. Has impacted by life richly.
John 14:20 "On day you will know that I am in my Father, and you on me, and I in you." Jesus himself says he dwells in us and us in Him. So certainly there is support for experiencing union with Him. Yes, we are not God, but this and other scriptures support the idea of union because we receive Christ as Savior and His Holy Spirit dwells in us. I have at times been overwhelmed by God's loving presence poured into my heart such that I could nothing but sit there with other believers. His manifest presence was like liquid love pouring in. This is not just an intellectual concept for me .
It wasn't mentioned here but I am intrigued by the concept of Theurgy; largely a neo-platonic idea but what explanatory power does it have in a general revelation sort of way. Perhaps they (platonists) were onto something in regards to how we partake of the devine nature even now? Something like the balance of practical and mystical 🤷♂️ I feel like Pseudo Dionysius now, words are hard! 😅 Let's be mystics!
Mystics can't explain what they experience, but it is conscious, experiential "Holy communion".
Your attention is conscious "in the spirit" realm. A specific trance state.
Thank you for such a great video! I think it's very easy to misunderstand Christian mystics for a reason that I don't think was touched on in this video (and if it was I am sorry that I missed it). And that reason has to do with the reality we grant to our everyday sense of our self, or our “I-ness”. I would venture to guess that the vast majority of Christians sense their “self” to be eternal - “real” in a philosophical sense - as well as created by, and therefore separate from, God, whereas the mystics have come to a realization that our everyday “self” is ephemeral and dreamlike, and by experientially realizing this one is brought into union with God.
As crazy / outlandish as this might sound, it is a common understanding in many (but certainly not all) of the spiritual traditions of the East. In other words, in Buddhism, Vedanta, and Yogic traditions identifying who we really are with any aspect of our body or mind - including our “soul” - is a mistake, and is what keeps us from the Divine. Or to put it another way, when our sense of self dissolves what's left is only the Divine (and what can be said about that is very limited). Even if that stance seems silly or simply unbelievable, it certainly breathes new life into sayings such as “I am the vine and you are the branches,” or “The kingdom of Heaven is within you.”
The experience of knowing God’s presence at times is to not just remind us He’s there but I think to give us a taste as it were of our future stay in Him. Reminding us this present reality isn’t the true reality. People talk about being in a matrix. It’s quite cognizant of there being something behind the curtain. As a vale to reality. These people are probably ripe for harvest seeing how they’re seeking truth.
My concern with “entertaining” mysticism is even though it could be acknowledged that these individuals were/are “intellectual” and “smart” in the world’s sense, they obviously lacked in regards to proper understanding of God’s word, evidenced by their practices. The point that also should be emphasized is we live in a “Bible-illiterate” time, so one’s ability to “chew the meat and spit out the bones” when it comes to proper orthodoxy with mystics is always going to be a long shot. These mystics pose danger not so much in what they know that seems scripturally sound, but where their improper “orthopraxy” can lead people astray. Unbiblical and deceptive “wormholes” are everywhere. I am all about the emotional aspect of worship, but I refrain from the practices and teachings of mystics because one could easily be swayed to “myths”. Intellect and emotion are properly married in correct understanding of God’s word.
So should we spend more time on RUclips or sitting silently with god?
Their practices were neither improper nor unbiblical. They are giants of the Great Tradition.
Uh oh, ‘divine ecstasy’ and ‘resonating with ideas’, new age alert 🚨😂
Jk, that kind of poetic abstraction is necessary to capture and discuss Christ mysticism, and as a very mystically focused Christian myself, I really appreciate you all exploring this territory!!
In fact it’s my birthday today and I consider this providential and the perfect gift for me to enjoy listening to today 🙏🏼💙✝️
God bless you all~
Happy Birthday!! God bless you
@@AnastasiaR thank you! 💙💙
can you guys interview brandon barthrop from red letter ministries? he is a mystic but doesn't use that name also john crowder, georgian and winnie banov, joshua mills
Josh, have you ever heard of the eastern "weird" kind of meditation?
If you abide in Me and My words abide in you... Dr. Storms is right to connect the word of God and the Holy Spirit. They are inseparable. All scripture is God-breathed.
hey, I don't see the free ebook. Is there a link
my apologies Download Free Ebook
eepurl.com/hSCQRv
What about Thomas Merton?
Was this what the martyrs experienced as they were tortured? The onlookers were amazed at their ability to withstand. Kind of like Daniel in the furnace.
I didn’t know about the mansion scale! 😂
For clarification, Teresa of Avila died in 1582, was beatified 32 years later and canonized 8 years after that. She was a Spanish Catholic nun who founded the austere, cloistered, Discalced Carmelites (with vows of poverty). She wrote Way of Perfection and Interior Castle to train prayer life in her monasteries. She is one of four female Doctors of the Church.
It is incorrect to make an assumption that Teresa "stood in opposition to the Roman Catholic Church" and that she rejected "Grace mediated through clergy through seven Sacraments". 9:40 timestamp
Perfection toward the Will of God for Teresa came through the Sacraments (not in spite of them).
And the name of her order means "barefoot ," I read.
I love Sam Storms in Christ!
All my adult life I’ve been expirriencing God on deep deep without words. I think speakingin tongues is somehow connected
I want to meet Mystical Mark!
I’m listening to this again & have a question. Teresa of Avila said that meditation is the door & silence was all important. So, I’m sorry to say this, but the word, Meditation has been demonized but much of Christianity, Pentecostals included. To them, meditation is an Eastern and even New Age practice, opening up the individual to demonic influence. Instead, they have replaced the word, “meditation”, with the word “soaking”. Bottom line, soaking is the same thing as meditation, just a change in semantics.
I do have a serious question that I sjncerely would like an answer. This feeling, or these messages, how do I know they are from God?
Is this that much different than being "slain in the spirit"?
I think being slain is a result of hands being laid upon you, and in that moment, God by His Spirit ministers to us . Mysticism in this regard is making a conscious effort to take time to be with God .. "to be still and know He is God"
Hmm... Mystical Mark... has a nice ring to it...
Can y’all make a video on John Crowder? 😂
Josh you said having those experiences made you want to seek them ALL THE MORE? Remember please, we walk by Faith not by experiences, and God WILL CALL YOU TO WORSHIP at times when you are feeling ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Because our worship is an offering to God. Remember David said "I will not give to God that which costs me nothing". God uses our pains and sufferings and similar difficulties at times to shape our worship. I would also say Josh there is such a thing as the IDOLATRY OF SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCES. PLEASE be careful you don't love your experience MORE THAN CHRIST. What are you seeking more --your experiences or Christ? Sorry if this was a bit direct....I love your show by the way.
Amen.
yep be still and know that I am God we are spirit.. God is Spirit .. Your spirit man is in the prescence of the LORD , Im in that place all the time. and its Glorious .as we get to know him deeper... our flesh resists...Why fear if you have the Holy Spirit, if the fruit is good ....and we get full of JOY .. its not the enemy , the deep and longer I walk with him, the less my mouth speaks .. I pray in toungues and recieve , and listen and be still After I surrender my will, repent and approach the LORD, as KING and LORD and my FATHER bowing and surrendering ,,, Then I REST and be still,, We are to become one with him , which means our flesh and will is out of the way our Spirit Leads in the KINGDOM ,, his weighty kavod is the prescence you are speaking of ...
When we seek God’s presence and guidance is it for knowledge to be a gain sayer or just to seek God? I think is the question. Revelation in who God is as apposed to just God’s knowledge. Knowledge puffs up.
Joh 10:8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
Isa 58:4 Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high.
Isa 58:5 Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the LORD?
Isa 58:6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
Isa 58:7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?
Isa 58:8 Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy rereward.
Isa 58:9 Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity;
Isa 58:10 And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday:
Isa 58:11 And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.
Isa 58:12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.
Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
Isa 58:14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
The practice of mysticism is called contemplation or contemplative prayer in the Western Church or theoria or hesychastic prayer in the Eastern Church. The Apostles practiced this prayer. Jesus' teachings, actions, and life teach this insight into the human soul, the soul's anatomy, and the dynamic in the soul that ails it, that heals it, that saves it, that reunites it with God. Jesus exemplified and fulfilled this. The inner anatomy and dynamic of the soul is also hidden in the creation stories. All Scripture gives insight into the soul and the soul's relationship with God.
I am reading about hesychasm at the moment. Very interesting area of practise to read about.
@@littleboots9800 Don't over read. Use your time to practice it instead. Some classical mystic's writings are over complicated and theologically encumbered. You can read overviews by contemporary writers, but Albert the Great's On Union with God, Michael Molinos' The Spiritual Guide, The Privy Counsel by anonymous, and Dionysius the Areopagite's Mystical Theology are short and more to the point. You might find them on audiobook or online.
Distinguish between the techniques or methods of prayer or practice vs the overarching context encompassing the prayer. If you do just the method, it isn't much different than eastern meditation techniques. (Eastern meditation may lead to enlightenment but may also lead to a sense of nothingness.) As you practice, read the Scriptures and you may come to realize they are revealing the inner make up and dynamic of the human soul or psyche. As you gain insight to your psyche or soul, you may come to see the underlying allegorical or mystical meaning in Scriptures. You may come to see what ails and heals the inordinate appetites and emotions of the soul. You may come to see the disorder of thinking in the psyche and how to reorder it. You may come to see what is truely good and beneficial, and learn to disregard all that you once felt and thought was right and good, but was detrimental and wrong for your soul and your relationships with others and with God. Your soul may then become right within itself, with others, and with God. You may then find inner calmness, peace, or equanimity, becoming unperturbed by irrational emotions and undisturbed by unreasonable thoughts. You may then become internally free, no longer enslaved or compelled by them. This is the purification and inner illumination of the soul or psyche.
The over arching idea is to quiet your inner dynamic, to dampen your appetites that perturb your emotions, to calm your emotions that disturb your thoughts and demand satisfaction, to quiet and disregard your thoughts that capture and carry away your attention from your awareness. Once your awareness is freed from the compulsion of your thoughts (unreal words and images in your head), emotions (desires, aversions, fears, anger), and appetites (drives, neediness), your awareness can then attend to her inner most part or chamber, the heart, where the Spirit waits, where the Spirit goes unnoticed and unseen because of all the clutter and noise from the appetites, emotions, and thoughts in the psyche that steal and disorientate the awareness' attention away from the Spirit to that of the flesh, just as the serpent crawling in the dust below distracted Eve away from Adam, and she disoriented Adam away from the Spirit who once walked with them in the cool of the day in the garden.
There's a cool shade garden in the center of the soul where the Spirit rests waiting. There's a cherubim with a flaming sword guarding the way ready to pierce the heart. Never mind that. Don't be afraid. Have faith. Faith is the antithesis of doubt and fear. Perfect love casts out fear. Christ has crushed the serpent's head. His heart and side has been pierced for us. He tore the veil separating us from the inner chamber of the Holy of Holies in the temple of the soul. He reorients the soul away from the dust and flesh to the Spirit. Let the old Adam of your soul be pierced by the flaming sword and die to himself. The good news is the new Adam rose from the tomb in the garden of our soul. Read the Gospels and he will teach you and reorient you to his Spirit who is waiting in the inner chamber of your soul for his bride. Someone, not nothingness, is there waiting. Christian contemplation is a foretaste of divine union in heaven. The soul like the bride is prepared, purified, enlightened while the Bridegroom prepares a chamber for her in his Father's mansion. He told his disciples his Father's mansion had many rooms he would go to prepare for them, the faithful.
@@littleboots9800 A Short and Easy Method of Prayer by Madame Guyon is another interesting work on contemplative prayer. You can find this audiobook under Radicalman on RUclips.
Any thoughts on John Crowder? Would y’all ever have him on your show?
I have never heard in a Catholic Church that my salvation or relationship with God has to be mediated by clergy.
I think that a lot of the writings of mystics are an attempt to convey what, or how, they are having the communion with the Lord that they are. For example; Love, God is love, doesn't focus on self. It focuses outward. So for the losing of self, I think what is being communicated is that in this "experience" they are not thinking of themselves, all of their attention is fulling consecrated upon the Lord. They aren't focused on if their doctrine or scripture is correct, or what others will think or say. Their whole being is consumed by God. love, etc. We are changed when we experience God's presence. It is entirely a work of God. No one comes unto the Father unless they are drawn of the Father. But, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us, and will answer. How, when, where, etc., is the walk of faith. But it is the will of the Father. That is the purpose Jesus Christ died and was raised for. May He be glorified.
Amen!
Got Saved as a teen when I first understood my lost condition and that Christ's Propitiation Is Sufficient to cleanse me from all sins and to Give Me Christ's Imputed Righteousness . My Conversion was the Most Sober Minded Devine experience though there was NO mystical element . Later got caught up in Charismatics which focus on a form of mystical experience. All Charismatics practice a form of mind altering exercises not too unlike pagan mystics
I believe Not every Christian is called into a mystic expierience.
It was my experience without knowing Anything of Christ.
These are deep eternal experience Ive never met one aside from myself but I know there must be. Yet everyone can delve deeper with their walk
There are proof texts though for the ineffability of some Christian mystical experiences. Acts 10:10 is Peter going into a trance, and Acts 22:17 is Paul going into a trance. Revelation is essentially an entire book of the Apostle John going into a trance or visionary state. It's scary, and horrifically misappropriated into today's worldly or nominal Christian culture, but there is precedent, and I have had just the smallest little tastes of it.
Before I fully committed my allegiance to Christ, I was a student of theosophists like J Krishnamurti, he was an apologist for the vía negativa as well and always said that “it is only the mind that is empty that can hold the total” that is the goal of contemplative prayer practiced by hesychasts, which is dangerously indistinguishable from Hindu mysticism. It is a beautiful practice, but one that must be done with carefulness so as to not open the wrong gateways.
I do think a lot of Christian’s are scared of such a deep union with God, spiritual ecstasy etc