hold up, equality is bad now?!
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
- what's on the other side of the fence?
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People threatened by talk of equality: "Ooh let me guess, you want to cut Snap off at the kneecaps"
Underrated comment! That really does tend to be how defensive privileged folks react to equity. They see anything done to help or protect those in need as a personal attack on them.
Why don't I get a ladder ?
Because you can already see over the fence.
Why do I don't get water ?
Because your house is not on fire
Why do I don't get protests for my rights ?
Because you already have those rights.
We're not pulling you down, we're not pushing everyone higher than you, we are bringing all to the same level.
And the people who say "I'm not privileged. No one ever gave me anything for free."
Yes, that's because it's already yours. You never even noticed that the culture is designed to suit and benefit you. You didn't cause it, but it's still there.
Damn. This is so true 🙈
not related to this video, but today i wrote 3 pages about Jamie in my english exam 🤣 the question was ‘write to your head teacher about an inspirational person who should come and speak to the students and the teacher about a topic.’ Jamie was the person who came to my head first and i wrote lots about transgender things :))
that's amazing! I'm sure you did great on the exam :)
Nice
can we talk about the BISEXUAL OCTOPUS ON HER SHELF???? DOES ANYONE NOTICE THAT. and from your neighborhood chaotic bisexual: it’s fucking adorable🤧
Thank you for your time
Yes very good. Thanks for pointing it out.
It is! I didn’t notice it at first.
yessss I want one
I think I might have seen that on Etsy.
I was just thinking about equity vs equality vs justice a little while ago!
One metaphor I've seen quite often is very similar, with boxes instead of ladders.
In this metaphor, the fence = discrimination.
Inequality has no boxes, equality gives everyone 1 box, equity gives the amount of boxes needed to see over the fence, and justice removes the fence entirely (or replaces it with a chain-link fence, showing how the discrimination is kinda always there, even just as a memory).
I really love the added layer of 'justice' in this one, because if we didn't have a fence in the first place, everyone could see, even people like Pop.
I just came to say that I've seen a similar one before, but with crates instead of ladders.
This is a very good example.
I've seen that too, and this is where I think this video got mixed up - removing names from CVs isn't using the 'equality' solution to barriers, it's actually removing the barrier in this scenario (asian names being judged more than white ones on CVs), surely? I realise this is part of the bigger barrier of racism, which is much harder to tackle
I think removing the fence would be destroying the system kinda😅
I wasn't bothered by this. It seemed to me that what mattered was that each candidate was granted an interview (equality). How that happened (by their names being hidden) seemed to me to be not really part of the analogy. @@red_velvetcake1759
Thank you for including disabled people & access to buildings. I genuinely don't think that most able-bodied people are aware how often there is no disabled access to a building or shop or flat. Even being homeless you're discriminated against because if you're in a wheelchair you won't be able to access all available flats & even if there is a lift in the building you also have to worry about fire safety if you're not on the ground floor.
This brought my EU law nerd out because "The principle of equal treatment or non-discrimination requires that comparable situations must not be treated differently and that different situations must not be treated in the same way unless such treatment is objectively justified."
We were always taught the "sleeping under a bridge" metaphor.
It is illegal to sleep under bridges in the town. This law is applied equally to all citizens in the town. But when it rains, the homeless person has to sleep under the bridge whereas everyone else can go inside their homes. The homeless person is the only one actually being impacted by a law applied equally to everyone.
It's similar to things such as speeding fines or parking fines. For some, a parking fine is no different to paying for parking. For others, it means not eating for a week (or more). Again, applied equally with vastly different consequences
When I first clicked on this I was like “HUH?” Now it makes sense and I completely agree. I’ve never thought about it but this is so true.
unrelated but is that the omni flag on ur pfp ?
@@galaxychill9578 yea 😊
@@livjohnson132 OOoooOOoooo, what's omni?
@@wolffierywolf8699 Omnisexual is when you are attracted to all genders. Unlike pansexual people who usually define themselves as genderblind Omni people notice gender but don’t care. Hope this helped!
@@livjohnson132 I'm aroace but I try to support allos too; that being said, I'm having so much trouble with pan vs bi vs omni vs poly. I know you're only omni, but I assume you know more about them than I do, so can you please explain the difference between them because I'm seriously lost, and I can't find any actual pan/bi/poly/omni people to explain it
You and Jamie have taught me so many things. I was raised to believe that the internet is awful and there’s nothing you can learn from it but I’ve learnt more useful things on here than in school.
So true.
Brainwashed
@@alfieclayton3418 how am i brainwashed? learning new things and seeing things from different view points isn’t brainwashing
@@mairuzu465 Pretty sure they're just trying to put you down. Being stuck in ignorance and being close minded is not how we change the world for the better. Learn away!! and discover and choose your own choice based on the knowledge you have learned!
@@cattusorb thank you!
I do a lot of work with Equality Diversity and Inclusion in my work place, and I've started to use a different metaphor which talks about keeping animals (I use snakes as an example because I keep snakes but it works for birds or fish or whatever). So my metaphor goes. Imagine you have 2 snakes that you're keeping as pets. One is native to the Saharan desert, and the other to the Amazon rain forest. If you treat them exactly the same then one or both of them is going to struggle to survive because they need different environments to thrive. If you keep the rainforest snake in dry arid conditions it will die from a lack of hydration, and if you keep the desert snake in damp humid conditions it will get respiratory infections and scale rot. Each animal needs it's own unique set of conditions to thrive, and equality is when they are both given access to the things they need to thrive. And the only way to know what they need is to do your research.
I know not everyone is a snake fan, but switch out the snakes to a different animal. Most people get this metaphor, because strangely a lot of people seem to be more invested in the welfare of animals than people so it strikes home more.
Of course, removing the fence altogether would improve conditions for all three.
Are you talking about deconstructing capitalism? Or am I just biased and want to see socialism in everything ;-;
I *hope* that's what they're talking about! No more fences! Acrobatics for all!
that's a third frame to a not uncommon riff on the equity v equality comic: liberation
Removing the fence would still mean a lot of work to fix the biases with even more people not wanting to acknowledge those problems because "everything is fine now".
@@carimavandijk1091 yes! Let's do this
This is an awesome way of explaining! I now realize that some of the privileges my disabled boyfriend can get are a form of positive discrimination that are designed to compensate for the problems he has to live with. Some people can react badly to this too. When my boyfriend was let on the airplane first because the flight attendants noticed he walked with a crutch a guy in line made some comment about how easy it was to jump the queue if you just bring a crutch. I gave him a really hard stare. If I’d been more quick witted a would have said “you want to trade??” A friend also said once she didn’t understand why disabled people get to park for free in the city center (not the case in every town but it is where we live) I had to explain that disabled people don’t have all the options able bodied have, like walking or cycling or using public transport to avoid parking fees. Every time we park in disabled parking I feel like there might be people judging us, checking if we’re “really disabled”. I now feel more of an understanding for the discrimination that POC and LGBT+ people face.
I hope you have a great day today. Daily reminder to never forget that you are worthy and valid. No matter what is going on in your life it will get better. You are truely loved and deserving of respect. You bring so much to this world and are very valuable. Don't forget how much you truely matter. Stay safe and be well.
@@the-pan-potato3139 not the best, how are you?
tysm for saying this all the time (i know i keep saying this, but you make my day :D)
@@the-pan-potato3139 Just one of those many days dealing with misgendering and dysporia.
well this was just a sweet lil message :>
A simple example of how equal treatment vs. equity affect outcome:
Two children need equality in their ability to see the teacher's notes at the front of the class.
Equal treatment means giving or refusing *both* children glasses, where either both get them or neither do. This results in inequality of outcome: one can't see the teacher's notes well or at all.
Equitable treatment means the child who needs it gets corrective lenses for their vision, and the child with perfectly fine vision does not receive them. This results in equality of outcome: both can see the teacher's notes.
as a teacher one of the first thing you learn (at least in Sweden) is this picture of the elephant, monkey and fish get the same test to be fair: climbing a tree... In sweden we have a saying that loosely translae goes: true equailty means someday means treat people differently. And the meaning behind is what Saba explains in this video...
ah yeah! I did my teacher's training in Switzerland, and we also discussed exactly this same image :-D
Equity?
Edit: yep, that actually makes a lot of sense
Currently writing my bachelor thesis partially on Inequality vs. Equality vs. Equity (in connection to disability) and I'm internally CHEERING you on whilst watching! Love that you're talking about this!
How very timely
Equity is how we achieve Equality
It doesn't fit as well in the context of racism, homophobia, sexism etc., and fits better for disability, mental illness, etc., but: Crackle could jump. Or he could stand on his toes. And at the end of the performance, people would say "What do you mean it was difficult, you saw it didn't you?" even though he had to try harder and struggled more just to manage.
This was very well-explained.
I saw the word equity as part of a Girlguiding motto in the past, and questioned it, asking why not equality. I got schooled and rightly so.
This makes so much sense and needs explaining and highlighting more.
Thanks Shaaba.
I heard about a teacher that started off the year with her little elementary kids and taught them this lesson. Kids sometimes have IEPs and so are treated differently. She didnt want her students to complain about why Suzie has different homework, or why Jack gets more time to take a test.
She told each kid to imagine they had a boo-boo and to point to it. She then went up to the first kid, asked where the boo-boo was (cheek), and put a bandaid on it. She went to the next kid and asked where their boo-boo was (knee). This kid also got a bandaid but it was placed on their cheek. This repeated for the whole class. Where is your boo-boo, and bandaid placed on the cheek. This is equality as everyone was given the same support: a bandaid on the cheek. Equitably would be giving each kid a bandaid where it was needed. Later on, she could reference the bandaids to explain why certain kids got different help or were helped differently.
I hope everyone here has a great day/night! Remember your worthy and loved!
omg ik it wasn't specific to me but thank you! that was a very nice thing to say in general
Yeah! When people don't all start in the same place, it takes more for them all to get to the same place.
Yep! The concept of equity to achieve equal opportunities and outcomes should really be taught more widely. This is the whole reason we have social support systems
I like this metaphor but with Snap, Crackle, and Pop standing on a slope. It’s not inherent differences between them, but an uneven playing field.
When I got to the metaphor part, I excitedly thought "Is she going to do the fence with the boxes?!" which turned out to be ladders but all the same! I saw this picture one day with boxes and it was Equality vs Fairness :D Thank you, and Jammi, so much for your great content, it's always enlightening and funny!
Really good explanation to a sometimes delicate topic. It seems more people are wilfully ignorant about equity vs equality nowadays and so it's nice to see such a straight-forward video about it.
Easier explained: Why we don't give school books in Braille to everyone. Or anti-depressants to people who aren't depressed. It's useless because there is no need.
Anti-depressants are great for some people, but downright dangerous for others. For example, people with bipolar disorder can be triggered into mania by anti-depressants.
@@ettinakitten5047 Haha... I know all about getting bipolar epsiodes from antidepressants! Happens to me quite a lot! Still I'm depressed as fuck and need an antidepressant, so yeah...
I am in a wheelchair and lgbt, and feel very much included in the example. I need a two foot ladder. Have been fighting for more than three years now for euqipment and trainings to compensate for my disabilities, so for in vain. It sucks to be unable to work a proper job just because the job center refuses to pay for braille classes and tactile displays.
I remember being 15 or so and this one guy I knew was explaining equity vs equality, but he was a misogynist, so I didn't listen to him. Spouting out about needing equity and then immediately turning around to say the wage gap doesn't exist.
I'm glad I came across this video, you explained it very well!
Gonna be honest I really think the characters you made in the example are quite endearing. I might make a little fan art. Also I am glad you talked about this because I had agreed with this stance, but didn’t really have the words to take the hypothetical ladders and apply the logic to a more realistic situation.
an amazing explanation! I love how you elaborated on the classic fence and crates image. great video!
My motto is always equity over equality because the latter implies that everyone is the same and have the same hardships while the first seeks to address the imbalance so that we can apply equality over equitable situations! Thank you for bringing this up and your examples were very great and very charming! 💖
Beautifully explained.
Thanks Shaaba. I'm now educated AND hungry. 😂
Yesss I always try to explain the difference between equality and equity to people and now I can just direct them to this video!! Thanks so much!
I’ve seen a similar metaphor to this, where eventually, a mesh fence was put in place so all three could watch the performance, so nobody needed the support, which is hopefully what the world will be like in the future.
Thank you for explaining this, Shaaba
'you can't judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree'
Best metaphor Shaaba. I have some of your videos, Jamie's and OT's, all bookmarked in a folder for when my grandparents ask me complicated questions.
As soon as I read the title, I thought "Well yeah equity is what's we're supposed to do" *Another version I remembered seeing of the fence analogy pops into my head*
Wonderful analogy!
I do agree. But the problem arises when people have to choose _who_ has to be given the ladders. In today's society, wrong people are given ladders thru bribery, better reach in general, you name it.
I was SOOOO... confused at first, but this makes sense now. Thanks for that :)
There is a quote from Rick Riordan that I didn’t understand when I first read it, but has been resonating with me more and more hat really fits here. “Fairness does not mean everyone gets the same, fairness means everyone gets what they need.”
I feel like I had heard this concept but didn't fully understand how it worked until this analogy. Thank you!
I totally agree with you, but I would like to add that giving pop a 2 feet ladder doesn't take anything away from snap's opportunity. They aren't being disadvantaged. And I think that's what scares a lot of people...
I saw a very good addition to this metaphor a few months ago which was that while equality is ladders, justice is tearing down the fence
i've always seen this metaphor with boxes, they tend to stack better than ladders! 😂
I didn't really look at it from this angle... you're right, it really should be fair treatment rather than equal treatment
I remember in my last year of high school we saw that metaphor but the ladders were boxes and and the acrobat show was apples in a tree, and there was still the three people with different heights!
Equity over equality.
Just made a reference to this in a comment and I just wanna say, that little fence and stick figures definitely made an impact! ♡
This is a wonderfully presented video, Shaaba. Thank you for putting in the effort to explain this important concept. Lots of love to you and anyone else who needs it! 💜
I've seen this example before - there's another version where it goes even further and simply takes away the fence
As someone with aphantasia I really appreciate the visuals ♡♡
We learned about this at a lecture during my teacher education in Norway! They showed a clever cartoon of different animals trying to eat from a tall tree with a similar effect as this metaphor!
yes!! And people shouldn't even have unconscious biases or consider certain traits as disadvantages, but to achieve a world like that, using equitable treatment is great. And even after we achieve that, there's still going to be people with disadvantages - like disabled people, etc. So we should continue using this treatment even then
Being from Brazil I'd seen this analogy being used for a football match. And the kids would stand on boxes, which are usually easier to stack than ladders
I know this is a little off topic but you would be an amazing mother like seriously your kids would be so wise with how well and clearly you explain things
i was confused at first but this does make sense! thanks for explaining!
RIP melvin he will live on in our hearts
I adore this metaphors and am saving it for later
Excellent explanation!
Equal respect, not equal treatment 👏👏 haven’t watched the video yet but I already know I agree with you!
As basically snap in this circumstance, I had a really hard time making it to the end of this one.
I agree with your points, though
hi shaaba. this is not related to this video, but one time in a video i think you said resilience and strength were two different things and at the time i thought it was a bit silly but then i had a crisis about it and THEN went on a little ~journey~ and i now feel more self-aware than ever. you were right. thank you love x
i love this, you explained it so well!!
this is late but i’m a real life example of where equality doesn’t work. i’m disabled, i have information processing issues, a speech impediment, and dyslexia, adhd, and autism. generally i’m ok because i’ve learned to work with my disabilities but there are situations when i need more time and patience in order to process information properly or navigate a certain social interaction. if you have the same amount of patience and understanding as you have with the neurotypical person, chances are the interaction isn’t going to be positive for either of us. sometimes i just need a bit more help understanding things or processing things and figuring out how to handle them, and that’s ok! i just need that extra ladder :)
I hope everyone is having a great day! Shaaba thank you for talking on this!
This is really well explained, thank you! I get very wound up when I hear fellow white writers complaining about "these writing contests that only BAME people are allowed to enter. How is it fair to have things that are ONLY for them, and EXCLUDES us white people?" So... out of the hundreds of awards, contests and scholarships out there that you, as a white person, are perfectly eligible to enter and more likely to progress further in, YOU'VE decided YOU need be one of the Honorary White Folk in all of the *small minority* of BAME ones as well? You know that's the very definition of 'privilege,' right?
What a beautiful, simple but precise metaphor!
Shaaba, you are wonderful!
I’m like twenty seconds in: hoping it’s about equity lmao
OMG THE TITLE JUST CHANGED THATS SO KEWL
I can’t say anything other than wow. What a video. Thanks Shaaba ❤️
I really like this metaphor and this video :DDD (idk just felt the need to say that)
It’s rlly helpful :))
True story....I'm white and male (30+yrs)....I went for a job last year, it was an informal GROUP interview. Everyone in the room other than me was under 25. I didnt get the job, I wanted to know why so I asked...they told me I was too old for the role and not deemed in thier eyes- appropriately fitting for the role I applied for- to which I laughed, why!? Because what I didn't tell them was I was already doing that job role in another company and had been doing so for over 10yrs and was extremelycompetant at that role. I just wanted a changed of work place. Once they realized this, their tact changed and apologised for the bad treatment. I then turned around and said this:.....I may be over 30, but can jump over the heads of the kids in that room at the time. Please dont judge a book by its cover as you've just discriminated against a person who not only fitted the role perfectly, but would have been an asset to thier company. Thanks for the interview...but no thanks.....I them left laughing my socks off. The moral to this is simply you cannot judge based on anyones looks....SO DONT DO IT. You might just find because of your discrimination/prejudices you miss out on something great. Never judge a book by its cover👍🙂
To me it's shocking that they thought 30-something is old... WOW. Can't believe it in this day and age.
I already knew all of this, but you did a great job explaining it for those who wouldn't understand. I just wish those people would watch this video! also, I made a graphic of this same scenario once. I used boxes instead of ladders. Less likely to fall. lol
Another metaphor connected to this that I've really liked - ladders facilitate access to an existing system, but the fence represents systemic barriers that are still maintained. Instead of ladders, some of us want to tear down the fences, and rework the system to not have such barriers.
For eg. Having a paying job should not be a the condition for accessing healthcare/housing (as it often is in the US), but should be freely accessible.
How about we get rid of the fence? Or lower the fence? As in, let's change the system that was put in place
Love this metaphor. Take it one step further and make the fence a chain-link fence. Then you have Universal Design!
Here's another way to describe this. You could have two students, one is doing great in all their classes, and the other is barely passing their classes. The first student doesn't need extra help, they've already got a handle on things. The second student may need a tutor to help them learn and understand, or a place away from distractions so they can work in peace, or both! They started in different places, but end up in the same place.
Equity v equality
Imagine there is a house on fire in a neighbourhood
Equality would have the firefighters treat all the houses in the neighborhood as though they are on fire even though it is only one house on fire.
Equity would recognise that there is one house on fire and that the firefighters need to focus on that one house to put out the fire.
I saw this example in a comic. I can't remember who drew it.
I think this example is a good one to show the difference between equity and equality.
This video is approved by the epic people administration, and gets a rating of Very epic default skin 10/10. This video is very epic and informational, it does confront the issues on using equal treatment. Very epic.
This is why I get so angry when people want to use the term "equalist" instead of feminist. Why? It's the women we are to be giving the step ladder to, not the men who already see the acrobats.
This example is only about gender, but it's the same kind of principles for marginalised groups. Rise them to OUR level, give THEM the same opportunities in the first place. Equality through equity.
This is how I've always seen the term equality, but it was in university that I learned about equity and why that term is important when bringing up matters of this kind. Love your video, it's SO important to highlight, thank you!
I understand exactly what you're saying. It's just like the controversy about black life's matters, or Trans rights.
I'm a woman but I'm also childfree. But employers still might assume that I will have children and not give me a job. So I would like if the interviewers asked me about my plans to have/not have children at the interview, as then I'll be able to tell them that I'm fully dedicated to my job, as I've decided to be childfree for life.
That is such a good analogy
The ladders are fine as a temporary solution but really the fence is the problem. If you switch the fence to chain link, Snap, Crackle and Pop can be themselves with no additional consideration. For the analogy, changing the fence is equivalent to a systemic change.
I live in a small town right now, and being bipolar there are a lot of jobs I can't mentally and emotionally do. But I'm stuck in the same place, in a job that's super stressful to me in ways people can't seem to understand, because there's a severe lack of jobs that I CAN do. I really want to leave, but there's nowhere to go.
wow, you explained it sooo well, thank you for your amazing work
I really like your metaphor because with equal treatment they stand on the same level, but we see that some are higher than other, but with fair treatement, sure, some have more ladders than others, but their heads are on the same level. We don't need to water all the houses if only one is on fire. Give the right amount of help to get people on the same level
there's a meme using a baseball game that shows this....however many people cut off the last panel. Justice. Turning the picket fence into a chain link fence so all can see without the barriers. Equity is needed now until our society grows but the goal should be justice. removing the barriers that allow for inequity in the first place.
Gotta love them acrobats, lol
I don't think I've ever been this early to anything.
i think there is a pretty big issue with this concept that needs to be addressed. You should treat everyone you meet equally, on an interpersonal level. This doesn't mean that people should be treated equally on a society level. The things Shaaba spoke about was about Society and I agree with her, however her comment about how people say "We should all treat people equally" is often intended to be on an interpersonal level, Which IS true, you should do that.
The framing shouldn't be everyone gets a boost, it's everyone who needs help gets it. This means in your analogy, Snap didn't need help, they didn't get help. But if Snap let's say fell over, we'd help snap up off the ground, because we'd help them equally. Crackle just needed some help, and once gotten it, is good. Pop Needed help, got it but needed more, and got it. This is treating them all equally because everyone who needed help, got it.
Liberation is taking the fence down.
I would agree, except for one crucial problem with equity to achieve equality: equity sets a precedent. Once equitable treatment becomes the norm, it will not stop once equality is reached, simply because it's now the norm. This would lead to resentment and tensions between groups.
EDIT: I meant in connection with societally oppressed groups, not physically or mentally disabled people.
I love the tree graphic that's been going around online explaining this
I've seen a comic with the same idea but it had one more panel and that panel was to remove the fence entirely so that we don't need to give more to one person than another (even though unequal assistance can help address inequality). If we didn't have a racist, abelist, homophobic, transphobic society none of this would be needed. Ah the dream.
i came back to this video because i'm really confused now that i just saw people against the notion of equity/the use of that imagery qwq
Equal treatment ideology ignores the history of discrimination against black and brown people. It would only hypothetically “work” if racial inequality never existed (which we all know isn’t the case). If everyone is given a box to stand on, that’s “equal treatment”, but it doesn’t consider the fact that one box was left in the rain for years - the wood is warped and rotten, and could break at any moment. You can’t look at that and still say “well everyone has a box, so it’s fair!”