What the EBU still doesn’t realize is that they didn’ just disqualified Joost Klein, but an entire country. Eurovision was more hyped in the Netherlands this year than ever before, even more than when Duncan Laurence won. The whole country was looking forward to the final, but it was taken away from us without explanation. It truly felt like all your friends having a party but only you are not welcome.. Thats how it felt for all the dutch people. The way the EBU acts does not create a healthy and save environment for participating countries and artists. If you can be disqualifed anytime without justification…
As a fellow Dutch person I couldn't have said it better. It felt like not just Joost but everyone got the blame. But I'm really happy that Joost still got more views than the official winner which made Joost rise even more even tho EBU had hoped he'd fall. It just really sucks how they keep standing on the disqualification. 😢
Very well said! I have never experienced such a positive Dutch vibe in the run up to the contest as this year. It went through all layers of societies and many families young and old were so looking forward to watch the final. I don't think he would have won, however it would have been for us Dutchies are very memorable evening indeed. Like mentioned this whole affair happened because EBU lost their control over the contest a long time before the incident. . I am not so sure about Joost his eventual return to the contest. Remember it's all about the song and it'll be extremely difficult to surpass the Europapa vibe. 2021 is a good example how many singers came back with less quality songs than submitted the year before. The big issue right now the disagreement and breakdown of trust between EBU and AVROTROS. AVROTROS has made big contributions to the contest over the last years and saved the contest during Covid times. This made this whole affair extra painful. Obviously EBU has put their heels in the sand and if both parties do not come to an agreement it might end up in a court case for compensation
+ all fans who rooted for the Netherlands I was really hyped about the contest and happy for Joost and the Netherlands and I felt so bad for both. I'm living in Germany very close to the dutch border, so I feel somehow connected to the Netherlands.
This, they could have gone with another type of penalty like a fine. Now the whole country was punished for the (probably not so serious) actions of one man.
I'm a dutchie myself who always loved Eurovision. But I don't anymore. It hurted what the EBU did to Joost and my country and they don't want to apologize. They just decided to give us another punch in the face. I repeat Cornald Maas his words...F*** the EBU!!
EBU might as well write: "We are always right, because we write the rules, will interpret them as we see fit, and are prosecutor and judge all in one."
So they took his once in a lifetime chance, as a front runner, away from him.....and NOTHING has come of it. This was ALWAYS going to happen. Yet, a certain delegation that deliberately harassed, annoyed and mocked other artists and delegations openly on social media saw NO repercussions. We now know where the EBU's allegiances lie. I do hope Joost doesnt come back because he doesnt need Eurovision. He has won so many new fans even without taking part in the finals. Hes better than the sh*tshow the competition is becoming.
@@t-minus-qj7sd it was heavily reported by many different news outlets and many delegations complained so clearly it was true. And Keren Peles mocked Joost on her socials. That was also true. I saw the videos. So please, stop trying to manipulate the facts.
great statement from Dutch broadcaster AVRO-TROS: it is time the EBU gives some real answers (to questions that were already asked MONTHS ago) not the evasive mumbo jumbo they've been saying so far. oh and Martin Osterdahl: you are good to go.
What I don't understand about the reaction from the EBU, is that they want a safe work environment. But when there were multiple complaints about the Israeli delegation, they did not do anything about that.
I think it wasn't just this year. S10 said that at her edition, artists where also constantly filmed back stage and didn't get a minute of rest. The Dutch team also filed a complaint back then already. The EBU should change their policies about filming back stage, to protect the artists.
It was the Israeli singer who was bullied and harassed by some of the other contestants!!! Enough with your BS propaganda lies against Israel. It's getting tiring!
King William spitting facts!! The EBU acted wayyy to prematurely and got proven wrong. We finally have the long awaited Joostice, still a person's dreams were destroyed and there isn't even a proper apology from the EBU's side... I'm kinda worried about the future of Eurovision ngl
Yeah no, they’re not gonna admit they were wrong otherwise they’ll have to take responsibility for their actions or maybe even admit why they had to disqualify him in the first place. And I doubt they’d ever want to do that
I'm a dutchie myself who always loved Eurovision. But I don't anymore. It hurted what the EBU did to Joost and my country and they don't want to apologize. They just decided to give us another punch in the face. I repeat Cornald Maas his words...F*** the EBU!!
Compensation ! Appropriate to reimburse NED for 2024 contest entry cost, plus comp them for 2025 cost. Guaranteed qualification straight into 2025 GF. I'd also like to see statement from EBU acknowledging they had an obligation to also provide the artists a safe environment free of harassment as it is now clear that was the trigger.
Yes! The least EBU should do, is to admit they were not able to ensure the safe environment for the artists. They use that as their reason to validate the disqualification, so why not admit they failed to do so in the first place to let this whole situation happen.
If they would do that, it would mean that ALL OTHER countries would pay more, which would effectively make smaller countries think about not participating.
He did not have “a fit”, he pushed a camera away after being harassed by it. And none of the official statements mentions that he lunched a fist. I don’t know where people get that from.
I got to see Joost live in Sziget last week and I have to say, that man is killing it. He has a real connection with his audience and story that makes his music not just catchy but emotionally engaging. Well done @joostklein1 and keep doing what you are doing.
I’m so relieved you guys are also now making a statement abt it and stand with Joost, the Netherlands and all participating artists. The EBU is ofc doubling down on their decision still. Also their argument for doubling down, instead of apologizing, is because he, supposedly in their eyes, still broke their own rules. Even though it’s 1. their fault for the backstage harassment he dealt with and the conflict to have even happened, and 2. in that case, why not DQ this one other country’s delegation for openly harassing and bullying multiple other artists backstage and online??! The proof was all there, live, in front of everyones eyes. Even after multiple delegations and even their ARTISTS have complained directly multiple times abt that one delegation during the WHOLE event …. SMH Double standards pretty much ofc and we all know why
EBU seems to completely forgot that there was an agreement before, to not film Joost when he was going back stage after his performance. They don't take accountability for breaking that agreement anywhere.
With all what happened at the last Eurovision songfestival, It's clear to me that The Netherlands should not participate this festival as long as EBU doesn't make any excuses to The Netherlands, Joost Klein and his team and all the listeners/viewers. No appolagies? No particpation ever again
I still didn't watch 2024 final after all the shenanigans. It's a first for me in my whole life, after watching it for 20 years live on tv and once in the arena. I'm just like your any other Eurovision fanboy, consuming all the content about Eurovision all year round. But honestly how things were last year ruined it for me. It's like I've lost my inner child who was so passionate about it as far as I can remember. I can't make peace with last year's competition as long as we don't see any satisfying changes and actions, and seems like we aren't getting any. I'm not sure if I'll even follow next year's edition.
@@biggestbubblenc same, buddy. I feel the same. At the end of this year's Eurovision, I actually felt so exhausted and worn out from all the drama, trolling, and the tension and I was seeing on all the platforms that I enjoy consuming my Eurovision content on. This year has been full of nothing but deception, manipulation, threats, antagonisation and trolling. Israels participation made an absolute mockery of the show, and the EBU's clear bias and lack of control/assertiveness in stamping it all out made it worse. The EBU need a dominant, non-biased and intolerant stance on anyone flouting the rules that surround the nature of the show. Joost was never the enemy. The whole thing has just left a really bitter taste in my mouth and I've also lost that feeling of excitement and magic for something I once loved.
I remember one thing that the AVROTROS said. That this would give staff member the control on who can or can't be in the finals. If they want to see one team out of the finals. Then just fill in a complaint of inappropriate behavior so that he EBU have to disqualify that team. Seems the complaint doesn't have to be legal based. Just say it feeled you being unsafe.
I also read somewehere the employee concerned was considering appealing the decision because she was traumatized by what happened. I do not want to dismis that she might have felt traumatized but are you fit to do this kind of work than. She was not hurt, it only lasted a few seconds, it was an intuitive reaction and witnesses clearly stated that Joost apologized immediately after his first reaction. Prosecution found no evidence of malice or intent to do harm, so why is she traumatized? I cannot help thinking that she is perhaps traumatized by the hype she created and the storm of events that followed. If she had walked away and perhaps had asked for payment of damage to the camera (if there was any, and not for an apology since he already gave that), she would have probably forgotten all about it two days later. This traumatizing storm now seems to be instigated by her complaint. So in that regard EBU did not protect her either. After all: by blowing it out of proportion the whole world had something to say about this.
And if she was that upset she could have called the Swedish 911 right away after the “incident”. But no, she waited until the next day to go to the police, after that she had had a talk with the EBU management, who just MIGHT have given her the suggestion to file a complaint with the police (and refuse all contact the Dutch delegation)
Did the EBU give Joost a safe place? they just trampled all over him even though they made an agreement and repeated asking not to film him at that moment.
I am so happy for Joost but still mad at EBU, I hope joost will achieve every goal he has, if he ever goes to eurovision again ı will 1000% support JOOST KLEIN 💙💙💙
It's simple the EBU just trusts one side, didn't want to believe the other side, and now they are too arrogant to even consider if they were in the wrong. If the EBU was a safe place for everyone, then they would have taken the parties involves (Joost and the camerawoman) and try to get to an agreement or in the very least get to the bottom. There was ample room for that and even a very high probability for it to be a resolved behind closed doors. If those talks hadn't resolved it, then one (or both) of the parties would have had ill intent. Basically what the prosecutor is saying that this situation is nothing more than a harmless accident, like bumping up against someone.
@@WhoStoleMyAlias It's more prove that the EBU isn't going to change its mind, and even try to apologize for their bad handling of the situation, let alone reimburse affected parties in any way. Because they are not willing to admit that an agreement was made to not film Joost backstage after the song, If they did then it would mean they'd be capable of admitting mistakes, and to this point there has been no shred of evidence that would support such a possibility.
@@albert_vds They may not want to, but they may find themselves needing to because there were in fact multiple complaints about the unsafe environment back-stage. Dutch editorial today stated that what transpired in Malmö couldn't possibly have happened at the Olympics. Only way for reporters to talk to an athlete was to wait until they came to them. EBU treats artists even worse than the filth they are themselves.
Great video as always William, since they signed that contract with tiktok, it's been like a cult, press is not welcome and artist are obliged to do whatever the ebu demands which leads to an unsafe enviorment.
This it's ofcourse very sad that she felt threatened (maybe she misinterpreted the movement and thought he was gonna hit her for a sec who knows) but it doesn't mean she was in fact threatened. In the end the whole situation souns like it could've been solved by simply talking it out. She could've explained why she felt threatened than Joost could've apologized for that and make it clear his intention was not to threaten her but to simply stop her from filming. Boom done no need for all this drama for months on end! Avrotros and Joost also offered to do this at the time but sadly she didn't wanna talk.
The EBU is unlikely to ever apologize or admit they were in the wrong. This is typical behavior for large organizations-they avoid admitting fault because too much is at stake. If they were to do so, many countries might consider withdrawing next year or demand changes, as it would reveal serious issues within the EBU and the contest. The EBU will likely accept that the Netherlands may not participate for the next few years, and as time passes, most people will probably forget about the situation. There is a possibility that the EBU and AVROTROS will hold a private meeting where the EBU might apologize and offer compensation to AVROTROS in some form. However, they will never issue a public apology.
It *must* be noted that: - the EBU made a clear undertaking to assist and adhere to certain requests due to this participant's condition. - the EBU did not comply with this undertaking, because its staff member breached this undertaking. - the EBU, then, disqualified the affected participant, and made a statement that it could not make a statement due to the police investigation. So, the EBU was explicitly relying on the police investigation to justify its disqualification action, not their own 'policies and procedures'. - but now that the police investigation did not go the EBU's way, they are *now* making the statement that this is a breach of their 'policies and procedures'. So clearly, they could have let him perform, and inform the participant and broadcaster that an investigation is underway and it may impact the result that can be decided at a later time. At the same time, ensure that the staff member's safety and entitlement by paying them but removing from the event (or ensure they are kept apart). All this is called risk management.
The woman who reported Joost filmed him (although he didn't want to). Where is the video? Even if she deleted it from the memory card after the alleged incident, any layman could have restored it on a PC. Why wasn't the woman's camera seized in the first place? Because then they would have had the evidence they needed. The EBU doesn't seem to have the video itself either, otherwise they would have given it to the public prosecutor's office. Ergo, an artist has been ruled out on the basis of a statement (by a woman - perhaps that is the reason). Without evidence and after an alleged "threatening gesture that made someone feel uncomfortable who did something they shouldn't have done - filming."
The EBU stated that the police investigation has nothing to do with the disqualification, while Martin Osterdahl stated on the 11th of May that it would be “inappropriate” if Joost was in the final now that the police was involved. This contradiction should be stressed when AVRO/TROS sues the EBU, which they will certainly do if the EBU keeps doubling down.
What EBU doesn't seem to realise is that artists like Joost Klein and Käärija decided to compete at Eurovision because of their happy memories from childhood. Sitting on the couch, watching with their parents, allowed to stay up way later than usual. All the parents I've talked to had the same stories: their children absolutely loved Europapa and eventually it started to grow on them too. They cannot afford many more of these cases, because many of the children who were now dissapointed in Eurovision will become parents in the future. If they don't have happy memories themselves from watching the competition, they will not create those memories with their children. I feel that EBU has been treating their artists the same way since the 1970s. This is our show, you belong to us now and we decide what is best for you (read: us). Joost already had to make some big sacrifices: he was not given freedom on social media by EBU, eventhough he understands that medium far better than anyone at EBU and that is where his original fanbase can be found. Yet he complied. EBU needs to completely rethink the way they engage with the artists and enter the 21st century.
What surprises me: this whole thing started because Joost was being filmed, right? So why is there no video evidence then??? Where did the video go? I might be biased because I am Dutch, but something tells me the video is kept under wraps because it puts the camera lady (and the EBU) in a bad light.
@@heroicnonsense You can restore videos on SD cards after they have been deleted. Even a layman can do this. Even if the woman's camera had broken, you could do it. So the question remains: Where is the video?
What still confuses me is that in certain statements, articles etc I read about a photographer. And in others they talk about a camera woman, or someone making a video. So, if it was a photographer, it makes sense that there is no video. There may be photos but they will probably not show what happened.
What surprises me is that everybody is talking about a safe environment these days. But if their favourite male artist herasses a female backstage cameraperson by hitting a phone out of her hand we think it's normal behaviour and make up of all kinds of lame excuses to justify it.
Ironically there IS footage of one of Israel's contingency harassing Joost after he missed the semi. "Joost - where were you? We missed you!" in a super sarcastic voice. But the EBU wouldn't want to offend them by doing anything about that. 😒😒 (And now come to find out the Netherlands folks wrote the EBU and they IGNORED it?!)
Oooh, we are not allowed to say anything negative about the Israel delegation and their harassments. That's anti-semitic. The EBU should have investigated that behaviour after all the complaints from different countries. 🙄
This whole situation is so bad. To me, it feels clear that the agreement to not film Joost in the moments after his performance was violated. And this decision by the Swedish police basically saids and confirms that he "pushed the camera away" and they couldn't prove that there was any harm or threat intended by that. Of course, I don't know what the EBU knew at the time, nor any past experiences that may have triggered the person holding the camera. With that said, how can the EBU double down on their own decision here? They acted too harshly, too quickly. An apology for that would have been appropriate way to respond. He should have been allowed to compete somehow. At the very least with showing the semi final recording if they couldn't figure out something better at the time. I hope AVROTROS does not back down on this. Get a full explanation, an apology, and possibly a refund or some other agreement before you even consider returning.
The EBU has done so many mistake during this years Eurovision. So I'm actually surprised that so many countries has said yes to participate in 2025. Also. I'm not surprised if The Netherlands decided to not participate. Where EBU afraid that NL would win again? That's why they disqualified Joost Klein instead of warning him? What did they do to the photographer who also did a mistake by not respecting Joost wish? We will probably never know.
I would understand if it was just a talent show, but no. The whole country was disqualified. I can imagine how upset the people of the Netherlands are.
Thank you so much, William! I ask myself all the time: As an organization that invites artists from so many very different countries to another different country every year, then they must have been seriously aware for decades that there are lots of cultural differences (also in behaviour/language/mimicry/gestures) that may have to be accompanied. The fact that the EBU is so incompetent and even unwilling shocks me to the core, that can hardly be surpassed in arrogance! The protection of the EBU's most important guests (without the artists there would be no ESC) is a joke. In every day life no guest would want to visit such a bad host - but just because it's a big organization they can behave like that?! Immediate changes are needed for sure - including learning what should take place in toddlerhood: How to apologize sincerely. A superordinate body should take care of this organization asap. And what happened to innocent until proven guilty? I'm not Dutch, so I can only speak for myself: I wish Joost that if he has the courage and the desire to compete again, that I would grant him this chance with all my heart! But that EBU doesn't apologize is sad. As if no one would realize that they still need Joost as a scapegoat, because they must be really scared: If he were to participate again, people from all over the world would be watching the EBU's actions more closely than ever before in 70 years!
Let me preface this that I'm not much of a fan of Joosts Klein's music. That said... The EBU is now doubling down on their decision after claiming to provide a safe working environment for everyone involved. So how would the EBU characterize the camera harassment of Mr Klein? Surely there will be sanctions for the camera person, right?
Eurovision was so big in the Netherlands and the EBU killed it for us. I can't remember an entry we were more hyped for than Europapa. Not even top entries like Duncan Laurence and The Common Linnets received as much support in the run-up to the contest as Joost did. Have fun Europe next year, but this little country is OUT.
Israel didn't do ANYTHING to deserve the kind of harassment and bullying they received from everyone there! Shame on you for pushing your nasty anti-Israel propaganda lies here!
It’s a kind of “shouldn’t have”. Joost shouldn’t have made the movement towards the camera, the camera woman shouldn’t have filmed behind stage and complained about this non-incident, the public prosecutor shouldn’t have been involved and the EBU shouldn’t have disqualified someone without evidence and now hiding behind shady rules. The EBU people involved and responsible for this decision have to go. But most of all, it shouldn’t have been a case to begin with. Everyone had their minute of fame, except Joost Klein.
NL should have 5 demands: 1) An apology for Joost Klein. 2) An admittance that EBU overreacted about the whole sutuation. 3) Free entrance for the final 2025. 4) No costs for participation 2025. 5) A completely new staff. This one failed miserably. If only 1 of them is ignored, NL will quit Eurovision and start an own edition. I think there are more countries joining that if the time comes.
I think classify some areas in the bubble and on the backstage and green room for "camera shooting forbidden", and mark cameras of the production with special line that mark them "production" only, could help remove a lot of scandals from this year.
I honestly think we shouldn't participate next year, not just to make a statement but also to see if the Netherlands will even miss the event. Was there even a repercussion for the videographer for recording when not allowed? The EBU were very adamant with 'not showing the footage' for the police report, now that the case is put to rest they sure must be allowed to show the footage to prove innocence? I have so many questions still haha
I have to wonder if Sweden did what they did this year with Finland, and let Joost perform the chorus of his song as a a surprise to the crowd in the Grand Final?
Lawsuit against EBU because they don't follow their own rules and make it unsafe for artists. Full compesation for the Netherlands for 2024 and quit with eurovision. Its sadly not about songs anymore.
What is clear as well is that the EBU doesn't protect neurodivergent people and doesn't feel the need to respect our boundaries even when arrangements have been made. I'm Swiss and was looking forward to attend next year, now I'm not that sure. We face enough ableism in our daily life to actually go and support an organisation that doesn't care to be accessible for everyone.
That is the sad part. Eurovision should be a fest for diversity and acceptance, bringing together people from different countries and cultures, "united by music". People should be able to feel good about participating and winning, enthusiastic about attending. It should be a great honour to be able to host it and to be able to attend it when it is held in your country. Instead of now having to think about what political statement are you making either attending or not, or if you should support the organisation behind it and it's values, by going there or voting for your favourite act. I really really hope we can find the right track for this event again, but I right now I really do not like where it is going.
That’s what we were saying all along, he did nothing that should have disqualified him. Now he should get compensation, it has cost the Dutch television organisation lots to get him ready and Joost never got to perform. The EBU argument is BS, its just a lame excuse for their wrong decision.
How on earth did it take 3 months to come to the conclusion that there was no evidence to charge him. The damage is done now. You cannot turn the clock back. Why did they take the word of a member of staff over his version. Disgraceful over the top actions by the EBU. The investigation should have taken place after the final and not before. That member of staff should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves as they totally ruined that guys contest and actually ruined the contest for most fans.
EBU made a huge mistake and fail to acknowledge that. And instead of trying to do a bit of damage control they made it even worse with their statement 😂. Other countries complained about things backstage and they did ……….. exactly nothing about it.
Yeah, they are only digging their own grave deeper by statements like that. Using the "making it safe place for everyone" to back up their decisions, when that is exactly what they didn't manage to do and what caused this whole ruckus.
I think the entire situation is sad because Joost made a little mistake (while understandable) and AVROTROS offered so many options to make things right, offering to make a public apology, pay a fine etc etc. Joost never getting the opportunity to apologize is just so disappointing. The EBU response is plenty of reason for the Netherlands to skip 2025.
It feels like the EBU made a rushed decision and are now unwilling to admit their mistake. They couldn't possibly have made a fair decision in a matter of hours if it took the prosecutor 3 months to come to his conclusion that there was no evidence that a crime was committed. Given that the crime he was investigated for wasn't that serious and it was unclear what happened, the EBU should have let him compete and punished him afterwards after a more careful investigation. They could have fined him, for example.
I can see a big backlash with this I can see alot off countries pulling out off next years contest that have not confirmed there participants ie Holland ireland ect ect
It was totally wrong what happened from the beginning 😢 I am from Germany and I am also confused what was happened to the other ones . Who have any trust in the ebu now?
EBU obviously doesn't have an issue with their employees forcing themselves on the contestants, since they can do whatever they want without consquences...
The only reason The EBU is doubling down on their decision and the mystery woman (show your face girl) going to appeal is because they know and are very afraid of the lawsuits that are coming their way. If they apologize now they admit fault and they stand no chance in court
It does not sound like the EBU is going to make any changes at all. Maybe they will invest in more anti-booing technology because seems like they are going to need it. Joost Klein was done wrong and so were many other other artists. If Israel is there in 2025 I expect it to be just as bad as 2024.
@@GPBKM The camera woman was Israeli, the delegation has been harrasing Joost behind the scenes. Israeli TV stations have also mocked him and a couple others. None of this drama would have happened if the Israeli delegation wasn't there. Morrocanoil is literally the main sponsor of eurovision.
@@sav0001 We don't know the nationality of the one that had the camera/phone. ESC is a multinational operation & people from all over come to work on it. We do know that she wasn't israeli as that was specifically denied, because that came from a conflation with another bit of filming that the writer of that song did of Joost, while claiming that she only filmed a dancer. Reprehensible behaviour again from the israeli delegation, as they did throughout, but that wasn't the person the court case was about.
I'd say there is plenty of ground now to sue Martin Österdahl for aiming to destroy someone's career to deflect from his own mismanagement, additionally for spreading misinformation about the circumstances (e.g. hinting that it was all about Israel) that would grant the disqualification, and lastly causing massive financial loss to several parties.
The prosecutor wasn't available untill somewhere in august, that's why it has taking this long. Heard that somewhere on some news outlet (can't remember where I heard it :P )
Listen to the camera women? We are all have been waiting for that! Silence is what we get in stead, now she wants to appeal. Joost did not murder her.....strange way to look at this minor thing that had happened. .... Note: i was reacting to some one. But didn't push the answering button. 😂
The Netherlands should sit 2025 out, but get from the EBU that the next time we compete, we'll get a final spot. So we can make a statement and still benefit. Joost indicated somewhat that he wants to represent Belgium next year, so that way we still get to see him. Win win win
The final spot was earned by Joost, IMHO it's just making things even more unfair to hand a spot in the finals for this (it's already a bought spot by some countries IIRC)
EBU: "We do not tolerate inappropriate behaviour and will always respond to any workplace issues that are reported to us." Also EBU: well, unless it's Israel...
I want to EBU to announce they did had an agreement with Joost he would not be filmed and that one of their employees has broken that promise and is liable for the damages caused.
I keep coming back to the same feeling, which is that the last thing the EBU would have wanted on the morning of the 2024 Grand Final would be to disqualify anyone, let alone a fan favourite. Enough things were going wrong anyway, so they must have had their reasons. It would help kill the rancour if they gave a better explanation of those reasons. What was the nature of the threatening behaviour?
Well the press release from the Swedish prosecutor states: "the man made a movement that hit the woman's film camera". We don't know with what intensity he hit the camera, but according to the prosecutor it wasn't enough to cause serious fear. So I guess it can't have been that hard. I think he pushed the camera away, just like Cornald Maas of the Dutch delegation said. That deserves a reprimand, not a disqualification.
It seems EBU broke their side of a contract but Joost behaved also badly. Was it enough to disqualify him? Probably not in the context of an agreement... Irritation of the moment... But I hope the Dutch participate in 2025 and the delegation manages to get some delivery behind the scenes. Especially when there was a talk of rough behaviour from the members of the Israeli crew...
Israel is a hot potato. It should be obvious to anyone in their right mind that the EBU is not tackling this. If they had kicked Israel out, there would have been a shitstorm and there has been one. If they hadn't allowed Israel to compete, there would have been a shitstorm, and there was. The only difference is simply how the EBU, and therefore Sweden, wanted to position itself politically towards Israel. This is a statement that is being sent to the whole world, and above all to Europe. You can't compare that with a Dutch artist, and if you do, then you have absolutely no idea how the world works and what consequences the exclusion of Israel would have had for the entire country. Just think about it. There is even an example: When Japan recently commemorated the deaths of the atomic bombs, Israel was not invited. As a result, many Western heads of state and government also did not come to Japan. Such a decision against or for Israel has far-reaching consequences for the country.
They wrote that they want to participate in 2025 and they don't want to continue this conflict with EBU- they are not brave and afraid EBU, unfortunately
I don't know if NL will withdraw, but if they do, I do wonder what it means for the contest in terms of finances (and if so, will participation be more expensive for other countries?) and politics. I'm afraid it might have a huge ripple effect and lead to more countries withdrawing. ESC has been under fire in many places for its expenses, international politics, and general 'culture war' reasons. I am afraid that if the Netherlands withdraw's that might be the first domino of a big downfall of ESC in the next years. Not saying it will stop but they might have to downsize.
The Netherlands is the number 6th biggest contributor, so it will have financial consequences, the participation fee will probably go up and it will effect smaller (more poor countries)
6th biggest contributor and a drop in viewership of a couple of million. Also a lot of social media engagement coming from the Netherlands, that'll be less too. But I think that that financial setback is worth it for the EBU to keep the Netherlands away. It will only become difficult if more countries withdraw, but that does not seem to be the case now.
In the press release from EBU published right after the decision to dq, they wrote: "We are not pre-judging the legal process but, given the circumstances of what occurred and the fact that the police case will shortly be handed to the prosecutor, it would not have been appropriate for Joost to participate in the Grand Final." So, back then, the legal investigation was clearly used to justify the decision. Someone ought to dive into how "it's not appropriate to let him continue because there's a police investigation going on" has now become "all that legal stuff had nothing to do with our decision".
Not so long ago, he was open to the idea to participate and represent Belgium at Eurovision. I think it would be bad move for his career if he let his ego be bigger than his will to get more fans (more exposure leads to more fans). EBU did him dirty and he can be mad, he has all the right to do so, but it is wiser to participate if he has the correct song.
I think lots of good points have been made in the comments here. The only personal frustration I'd like to share is how the Dutch finally sent an entry that was unmistakably Dutch with the gabber sound - something they hadn't for a long time and we're criticized for - but because of what happened in Malmö, sending another entry in that genre will forever be tainted and feel.... Off. Europapa was the entry Dutch people had been waiting for for the last forty years and EBU just went and wasted all of that opportunity. Like dropping a million euro vase.
I’m worried about 2025, if the EBU does not apologise to the Netherlands and Joost in particular, his fans will keep spamming EBU’s socials, and if they keep Israel in the competition, there will be a lot of unnecessary drama again. I can see another failure coming.
I mean there was sort of an tragedy. Why did Italy share the teelvote results the thursday evening and then next morning Joost was DQ. I think something did have to do with Israel in some way or form also because EBU didn't want Israel to win and were maybe shocked to see the leaked results of Italy that Israel won the televote.
Terrible that she could damage his career and his participation in the contest. And now she wants to play the victim again and "move on". Joost should sue her and the EBU.
What the EBU still doesn’t realize is that they didn’ just disqualified Joost Klein, but an entire country. Eurovision was more hyped in the Netherlands this year than ever before, even more than when Duncan Laurence won. The whole country was looking forward to the final, but it was taken away from us without explanation. It truly felt like all your friends having a party but only you are not welcome.. Thats how it felt for all the dutch people. The way the EBU acts does not create a healthy and save environment for participating countries and artists. If you can be disqualifed anytime without justification…
As a fellow Dutch person I couldn't have said it better. It felt like not just Joost but everyone got the blame. But I'm really happy that Joost still got more views than the official winner which made Joost rise even more even tho EBU had hoped he'd fall. It just really sucks how they keep standing on the disqualification. 😢
Very well said! I have never experienced such a positive Dutch vibe in the run up to the contest as this year. It went through all layers of societies and many families young and old were so looking forward to watch the final. I don't think he would have won, however it would have been for us Dutchies are very memorable evening indeed. Like mentioned this whole affair happened because EBU lost their control over the contest a long time before the incident. . I am not so sure about Joost his eventual return to the contest. Remember it's all about the song and it'll be extremely difficult to surpass the Europapa vibe. 2021 is a good example how many singers came back with less quality songs than submitted the year before.
The big issue right now the disagreement and breakdown of trust between EBU and AVROTROS. AVROTROS has made big contributions to the contest over the last years and saved the contest during Covid times. This made this whole affair extra painful. Obviously EBU has put their heels in the sand and if both parties do not come to an agreement it might end up in a court case for compensation
+ all fans who rooted for the Netherlands
I was really hyped about the contest and happy for Joost and the Netherlands and I felt so bad for both. I'm living in Germany very close to the dutch border, so I feel somehow connected to the Netherlands.
This, they could have gone with another type of penalty like a fine. Now the whole country was punished for the (probably not so serious) actions of one man.
I'm a dutchie myself who always loved Eurovision. But I don't anymore. It hurted what the EBU did to Joost and my country and they don't want to apologize. They just decided to give us another punch in the face. I repeat Cornald Maas his words...F*** the EBU!!
EBU might as well write: "We are always right, because we write the rules, will interpret them as we see fit, and are prosecutor and judge all in one."
Sadly they do so indeed....
Netherlands should sue them
So they took his once in a lifetime chance, as a front runner, away from him.....and NOTHING has come of it. This was ALWAYS going to happen. Yet, a certain delegation that deliberately harassed, annoyed and mocked other artists and delegations openly on social media saw NO repercussions. We now know where the EBU's allegiances lie. I do hope Joost doesnt come back because he doesnt need Eurovision. He has won so many new fans even without taking part in the finals. Hes better than the sh*tshow the competition is becoming.
Indeed
Which certain delegation has harassed people?
@@erikonthefloorI believe it was the delegation from Israel.
@@mountainsong73Nope, not true we was harrased by paps from the EBU.
@@t-minus-qj7sd it was heavily reported by many different news outlets and many delegations complained so clearly it was true. And Keren Peles mocked Joost on her socials. That was also true. I saw the videos. So please, stop trying to manipulate the facts.
great statement from Dutch broadcaster AVRO-TROS: it is time the EBU gives some real answers (to questions that were already asked MONTHS ago) not the evasive mumbo jumbo they've been saying so far.
oh and Martin Osterdahl: you are good to go.
Cornald Maas is the spokesman of Avro/Tros. He is on top off it from the beginning. I wish him all the luck! ❤
What I don't understand about the reaction from the EBU, is that they want a safe work environment. But when there were multiple complaints about the Israeli delegation, they did not do anything about that.
Exactlyy!!! Thankyouuu!!
they want a safe work environment, unless they have to call out the Israeli delegation.
I am sure Avro/Tros of the Netherlands is going to talk about that. They want a meeting with the EBU soon! Cornald Maas is furieus from the beginning!
I think it wasn't just this year. S10 said that at her edition, artists where also constantly filmed back stage and didn't get a minute of rest. The Dutch team also filed a complaint back then already. The EBU should change their policies about filming back stage, to protect the artists.
It was the Israeli singer who was bullied and harassed by some of the other contestants!!! Enough with your BS propaganda lies against Israel. It's getting tiring!
King William spitting facts!!
The EBU acted wayyy to prematurely and got proven wrong. We finally have the long awaited Joostice, still a person's dreams were destroyed and there isn't even a proper apology from the EBU's side... I'm kinda worried about the future of Eurovision ngl
Such an arrogant response from the EBU!
The EBU doubling down and saying that the right decision was made at the time is just so petty I'm lost for words.
Indeed
Yeah no, they’re not gonna admit they were wrong otherwise they’ll have to take responsibility for their actions or maybe even admit why they had to disqualify him in the first place. And I doubt they’d ever want to do that
I'm a dutchie myself who always loved Eurovision. But I don't anymore. It hurted what the EBU did to Joost and my country and they don't want to apologize. They just decided to give us another punch in the face. I repeat Cornald Maas his words...F*** the EBU!!
Exactly the same. I will stop follow Eurovision. Love from France
Dat ze dit jaar oekraine niet weer lieten winnen😂
Compensation ! Appropriate to reimburse NED for 2024 contest entry cost, plus comp them for 2025 cost. Guaranteed qualification straight into 2025 GF. I'd also like to see statement from EBU acknowledging they had an obligation to also provide the artists a safe environment free of harassment as it is now clear that was the trigger.
Yes! The least EBU should do, is to admit they were not able to ensure the safe environment for the artists. They use that as their reason to validate the disqualification, so why not admit they failed to do so in the first place to let this whole situation happen.
If they would do that, it would mean that ALL OTHER countries would pay more, which would effectively make smaller countries think about not participating.
Good luck with that, I don't see any of that happening, maybe only some compensation if the case goes to court. But that's it
So whenever an artist has a fit backstage and lunges at an employee.. The EBU should pay compensation for that artist? What is this?
He did not have “a fit”, he pushed a camera away after being harassed by it. And none of the official statements mentions that he lunched a fist. I don’t know where people get that from.
I got to see Joost live in Sziget last week and I have to say, that man is killing it. He has a real connection with his audience and story that makes his music not just catchy but emotionally engaging. Well done @joostklein1 and keep doing what you are doing.
Poor Joost what a storm in a teacup!
I’m so relieved you guys are also now making a statement abt it and stand with Joost, the Netherlands and all participating artists. The EBU is ofc doubling down on their decision still.
Also their argument for doubling down, instead of apologizing, is because he, supposedly in their eyes, still broke their own rules. Even though it’s
1. their fault for the backstage harassment he dealt with and the conflict to have even happened, and
2. in that case, why not DQ this one other country’s delegation for openly harassing and bullying multiple other artists backstage and online??! The proof was all there, live, in front of everyones eyes. Even after multiple delegations and even their ARTISTS have complained directly multiple times abt that one delegation during the WHOLE event …. SMH Double standards pretty much ofc and we all know why
EBU seems to completely forgot that there was an agreement before, to not film Joost when he was going back stage after his performance. They don't take accountability for breaking that agreement anywhere.
With all what happened at the last Eurovision songfestival, It's clear to me that The Netherlands should not participate this festival as long as EBU doesn't make any excuses to The Netherlands, Joost Klein and his team and all the listeners/viewers. No appolagies? No particpation ever again
Avrotros will not never participate again. Maybe not next year, but I’m even doubting that. Unfortunately Avrotros doesn’t have the balls.
@@lorenzo_smit agree they are too soft to not go i think
I still didn't watch 2024 final after all the shenanigans. It's a first for me in my whole life, after watching it for 20 years live on tv and once in the arena. I'm just like your any other Eurovision fanboy, consuming all the content about Eurovision all year round. But honestly how things were last year ruined it for me. It's like I've lost my inner child who was so passionate about it as far as I can remember. I can't make peace with last year's competition as long as we don't see any satisfying changes and actions, and seems like we aren't getting any. I'm not sure if I'll even follow next year's edition.
Feel the same way.....lets see how this continues.....
😂😂😂
same
@@Patrick.V. what's funny?
@@biggestbubblenc same, buddy. I feel the same.
At the end of this year's Eurovision, I actually felt so exhausted and worn out from all the drama, trolling, and the tension and I was seeing on all the platforms that I enjoy consuming my Eurovision content on.
This year has been full of nothing but deception, manipulation, threats, antagonisation and trolling. Israels participation made an absolute mockery of the show, and the EBU's clear bias and lack of control/assertiveness in stamping it all out made it worse. The EBU need a dominant, non-biased and intolerant stance on anyone flouting the rules that surround the nature of the show. Joost was never the enemy. The whole thing has just left a really bitter taste in my mouth and I've also lost that feeling of excitement and magic for something I once loved.
I remember one thing that the AVROTROS said. That this would give staff member the control on who can or can't be in the finals.
If they want to see one team out of the finals. Then just fill in a complaint of inappropriate behavior so that he EBU have to disqualify that team.
Seems the complaint doesn't have to be legal based. Just say it feeled you being unsafe.
A precedent has been set here.
Which could destroy the ESC.
I also read somewehere the employee concerned was considering appealing the decision because she was traumatized by what happened. I do not want to dismis that she might have felt traumatized but are you fit to do this kind of work than. She was not hurt, it only lasted a few seconds, it was an intuitive reaction and witnesses clearly stated that Joost apologized immediately after his first reaction. Prosecution found no evidence of malice or intent to do harm, so why is she traumatized? I cannot help thinking that she is perhaps traumatized by the hype she created and the storm of events that followed. If she had walked away and perhaps had asked for payment of damage to the camera (if there was any, and not for an apology since he already gave that), she would have probably forgotten all about it two days later. This traumatizing storm now seems to be instigated by her complaint. So in that regard EBU did not protect her either. After all: by blowing it out of proportion the whole world had something to say about this.
And if she was that upset she could have called the Swedish 911 right away after the “incident”. But no, she waited until the next day to go to the police, after that she had had a talk with the EBU management, who just MIGHT have given her the suggestion to file a complaint with the police (and refuse all contact the Dutch delegation)
You are sooooooooo right!
Did the EBU give Joost a safe place? they just trampled all over him even though they made an agreement and repeated asking not to film him at that moment.
I am so happy for Joost but still mad at EBU, I hope joost will achieve every goal he has, if he ever goes to eurovision again ı will 1000% support JOOST KLEIN 💙💙💙
It's simple the EBU just trusts one side, didn't want to believe the other side, and now they are too arrogant to even consider if they were in the wrong.
If the EBU was a safe place for everyone, then they would have taken the parties involves (Joost and the camerawoman) and try to get to an agreement or in the very least get to the bottom.
There was ample room for that and even a very high probability for it to be a resolved behind closed doors. If those talks hadn't resolved it, then one (or both) of the parties would have had ill intent.
Basically what the prosecutor is saying that this situation is nothing more than a harmless accident, like bumping up against someone.
Except that the trigger was harassment by the camera woman, which by their own referenced ESC they should have protected Joost from.
@@WhoStoleMyAlias It's more prove that the EBU isn't going to change its mind, and even try to apologize for their bad handling of the situation, let alone reimburse affected parties in any way. Because they are not willing to admit that an agreement was made to not film Joost backstage after the song, If they did then it would mean they'd be capable of admitting mistakes, and to this point there has been no shred of evidence that would support such a possibility.
@@albert_vds They may not want to, but they may find themselves needing to because there were in fact multiple complaints about the unsafe environment back-stage. Dutch editorial today stated that what transpired in Malmö couldn't possibly have happened at the Olympics. Only way for reporters to talk to an athlete was to wait until they came to them. EBU treats artists even worse than the filth they are themselves.
It has nothing to do with sides
Moroccan oil is the sponsor
It needs to go
Great video as always William, since they signed that contract with tiktok, it's been like a cult, press is not welcome and artist are obliged to do whatever the ebu demands which leads to an unsafe enviorment.
And to the camera woman I want to say; feeling threatened is not the same as being threatened.
This it's ofcourse very sad that she felt threatened (maybe she misinterpreted the movement and thought he was gonna hit her for a sec who knows) but it doesn't mean she was in fact threatened. In the end the whole situation souns like it could've been solved by simply talking it out. She could've explained why she felt threatened than Joost could've apologized for that and make it clear his intention was not to threaten her but to simply stop her from filming. Boom done no need for all this drama for months on end! Avrotros and Joost also offered to do this at the time but sadly she didn't wanna talk.
The EBU is unlikely to ever apologize or admit they were in the wrong. This is typical behavior for large organizations-they avoid admitting fault because too much is at stake. If they were to do so, many countries might consider withdrawing next year or demand changes, as it would reveal serious issues within the EBU and the contest. The EBU will likely accept that the Netherlands may not participate for the next few years, and as time passes, most people will probably forget about the situation. There is a possibility that the EBU and AVROTROS will hold a private meeting where the EBU might apologize and offer compensation to AVROTROS in some form. However, they will never issue a public apology.
EBU owe him a HUGE appology😮❤
And the whole of the Netherlands + fans of joost
It *must* be noted that:
- the EBU made a clear undertaking to assist and adhere to certain requests due to this participant's condition.
- the EBU did not comply with this undertaking, because its staff member breached this undertaking.
- the EBU, then, disqualified the affected participant, and made a statement that it could not make a statement due to the police investigation. So, the EBU was explicitly relying on the police investigation to justify its disqualification action, not their own 'policies and procedures'.
- but now that the police investigation did not go the EBU's way, they are *now* making the statement that this is a breach of their 'policies and procedures'.
So clearly, they could have let him perform, and inform the participant and broadcaster that an investigation is underway and it may impact the result that can be decided at a later time. At the same time, ensure that the staff member's safety and entitlement by paying them but removing from the event (or ensure they are kept apart). All this is called risk management.
The woman who reported Joost filmed him (although he didn't want to). Where is the video? Even if she deleted it from the memory card after the alleged incident, any layman could have restored it on a PC. Why wasn't the woman's camera seized in the first place? Because then they would have had the evidence they needed. The EBU doesn't seem to have the video itself either, otherwise they would have given it to the public prosecutor's office. Ergo, an artist has been ruled out on the basis of a statement (by a woman - perhaps that is the reason). Without evidence and after an alleged "threatening gesture that made someone feel uncomfortable who did something they shouldn't have done - filming."
The EBU stated that the police investigation has nothing to do with the disqualification, while Martin Osterdahl stated on the 11th of May that it would be “inappropriate” if Joost was in the final now that the police was involved. This contradiction should be stressed when AVRO/TROS sues the EBU, which they will certainly do if the EBU keeps doubling down.
That statement from the EBU was unbelievably tone deaf. They would have been better off not writing anything at all.
I think Joost shouldn’t participate in ESC 2025. He is too much of a free and creative spirit to be caged by the strict EBU rules…
after all of this, it wouldn't be fair for the EBU to get to profit off of him again, especially after washing their hands of the issue like this
What EBU doesn't seem to realise is that artists like Joost Klein and Käärija decided to compete at Eurovision because of their happy memories from childhood. Sitting on the couch, watching with their parents, allowed to stay up way later than usual. All the parents I've talked to had the same stories: their children absolutely loved Europapa and eventually it started to grow on them too. They cannot afford many more of these cases, because many of the children who were now dissapointed in Eurovision will become parents in the future. If they don't have happy memories themselves from watching the competition, they will not create those memories with their children.
I feel that EBU has been treating their artists the same way since the 1970s. This is our show, you belong to us now and we decide what is best for you (read: us).
Joost already had to make some big sacrifices: he was not given freedom on social media by EBU, eventhough he understands that medium far better than anyone at EBU and that is where his original fanbase can be found. Yet he complied. EBU needs to completely rethink the way they engage with the artists and enter the 21st century.
They never will, like Putin never will resign “spontaneously”.
agree
What surprises me: this whole thing started because Joost was being filmed, right? So why is there no video evidence then??? Where did the video go?
I might be biased because I am Dutch, but something tells me the video is kept under wraps because it puts the camera lady (and the EBU) in a bad light.
my guess is that video got deleted shortyl after the incident for the reasons you state.
But it's only my guess - I have no proof.
@@heroicnonsense You can restore videos on SD cards after they have been deleted. Even a layman can do this. Even if the woman's camera had broken, you could do it. So the question remains: Where is the video?
What still confuses me is that in certain statements, articles etc I read about a photographer. And in others they talk about a camera woman, or someone making a video. So, if it was a photographer, it makes sense that there is no video. There may be photos but they will probably not show what happened.
@@spiderschaf Not if she was using an iPhone.
What surprises me is that everybody is talking about a safe environment these days. But if their favourite male artist herasses a female backstage cameraperson by hitting a phone out of her hand we think it's normal behaviour and make up of all kinds of lame excuses to justify it.
Ironically there IS footage of one of Israel's contingency harassing Joost after he missed the semi. "Joost - where were you? We missed you!" in a super sarcastic voice. But the EBU wouldn't want to offend them by doing anything about that. 😒😒 (And now come to find out the Netherlands folks wrote the EBU and they IGNORED it?!)
Are you talking about the woman who asked Joost by the elevator? When Joost said nothing? Or some other footage ?
@@simplybibi6043No, that was just a Swedish reporter. The video is about an Israeli guy who asked those sarcastic questions to Appie/big blue bird.
@@hk8414 dat kan ik mij vaag herinneren inderdaad! 😢
Oh please!!! You just had to push your anti-Israel BS propaganda again... What a cry baby!!! Get over it!
Oooh, we are not allowed to say anything negative about the Israel delegation and their harassments. That's anti-semitic. The EBU should have investigated that behaviour after all the complaints from different countries. 🙄
THANK YOU! Just thank you, you are speaking my mind💙
This whole situation is so bad.
To me, it feels clear that the agreement to not film Joost in the moments after his performance was violated. And this decision by the Swedish police basically saids and confirms that he "pushed the camera away" and they couldn't prove that there was any harm or threat intended by that.
Of course, I don't know what the EBU knew at the time, nor any past experiences that may have triggered the person holding the camera. With that said, how can the EBU double down on their own decision here? They acted too harshly, too quickly. An apology for that would have been appropriate way to respond. He should have been allowed to compete somehow. At the very least with showing the semi final recording if they couldn't figure out something better at the time.
I hope AVROTROS does not back down on this. Get a full explanation, an apology, and possibly a refund or some other agreement before you even consider returning.
Thank you for your stance on this situation, William!
The EBU has done so many mistake during this years Eurovision. So I'm actually surprised that so many countries has said yes to participate in 2025.
Also. I'm not surprised if The Netherlands decided to not participate.
Where EBU afraid that NL would win again? That's why they disqualified Joost Klein instead of warning him? What did they do to the photographer who also did a mistake by not respecting Joost wish?
We will probably never know.
I would understand if it was just a talent show, but no. The whole country was disqualified. I can imagine how upset the people of the Netherlands are.
Thank you so much, William!
I ask myself all the time: As an organization that invites artists from so many very different countries to another different country every year, then they must have been seriously aware for decades that there are lots of cultural differences (also in behaviour/language/mimicry/gestures) that may have to be accompanied.
The fact that the EBU is so incompetent and even unwilling shocks me to the core, that can hardly be surpassed in arrogance!
The protection of the EBU's most important guests (without the artists there would be no ESC) is a joke.
In every day life no guest would want to visit such a bad host - but just because it's a big organization they can behave like that?!
Immediate changes are needed for sure - including learning what should take place in toddlerhood: How to apologize sincerely.
A superordinate body should take care of this organization asap.
And what happened to innocent until proven guilty?
I'm not Dutch, so I can only speak for myself: I wish Joost that if he has the courage and the desire to compete again, that I would grant him this chance with all my heart!
But that EBU doesn't apologize is sad.
As if no one would realize that they still need Joost as a scapegoat, because they must be really scared: If he were to participate again, people from all over the world would be watching the EBU's actions more closely than ever before in 70 years!
Let me preface this that I'm not much of a fan of Joosts Klein's music. That said...
The EBU is now doubling down on their decision after claiming to provide a safe working environment for everyone involved.
So how would the EBU characterize the camera harassment of Mr Klein? Surely there will be sanctions for the camera person, right?
I'm a woman but I feels to me that the belief is that (straight?), white men don't need protection.
Eurovision was so big in the Netherlands and the EBU killed it for us. I can't remember an entry we were more hyped for than Europapa. Not even top entries like Duncan Laurence and The Common Linnets received as much support in the run-up to the contest as Joost did. Have fun Europe next year, but this little country is OUT.
It’s crazy that Isreal can do everything they did behind the scenes and that vote
It all cos the main sponsor of Eurovision - Moroccanoil ( Israel company) - Israel can do all and in 2025 it will be in such way also...
Israel didn't do ANYTHING to deserve the kind of harassment and bullying they received from everyone there! Shame on you for pushing your nasty anti-Israel propaganda lies here!
Why always Israël?
There are a lot of hypocriets.
@@wondergirlsara maybe you can be the next sponsor! Dismiss bad Israel! 🤣🤣🤣
as joost said - love always wins 💙
He should sue EBU and sue them GOOD
It’s a kind of “shouldn’t have”. Joost shouldn’t have made the movement towards the camera, the camera woman shouldn’t have filmed behind stage and complained about this non-incident, the public prosecutor shouldn’t have been involved and the EBU shouldn’t have disqualified someone without evidence and now hiding behind shady rules. The EBU people involved and responsible for this decision have to go. But most of all, it shouldn’t have been a case to begin with. Everyone had their minute of fame, except Joost Klein.
NL should have 5 demands:
1) An apology for Joost Klein.
2) An admittance that EBU overreacted about the whole sutuation.
3) Free entrance for the final 2025.
4) No costs for participation 2025.
5) A completely new staff. This one failed miserably.
If only 1 of them is ignored, NL will quit Eurovision and start an own edition. I think there are more countries joining that if the time comes.
I think classify some areas in the bubble and on the backstage and green room for "camera shooting forbidden", and mark cameras of the production with special line that mark them "production" only, could help remove a lot of scandals from this year.
Hope you’re keeping well William! good to see you back
Thank you so much ❤️
Thank you so much💙🙏
for finding all the facts and give them to us 👍
Very greatful. ❤
Thank you William. I agree 1000% with everything you said here!!!! You say exactly what i think with each and every line!
Thanks for watching!
This was very clarifying. Well made. Thanks
Thank you for watching!
Just skip next year and maybe the years after. The EBU is not going to change enough.
I honestly think we shouldn't participate next year, not just to make a statement but also to see if the Netherlands will even miss the event. Was there even a repercussion for the videographer for recording when not allowed? The EBU were very adamant with 'not showing the footage' for the police report, now that the case is put to rest they sure must be allowed to show the footage to prove innocence? I have so many questions still haha
Thank you so much William for your respectful and honest reaction to all parties involved in this. And of course I'm so happy for Joost ❤
Thank you for this video! I now understand fully what is going on and it’s such a shame that Klein did not get the right attention that he deserved ❤
I have to wonder if Sweden did what they did this year with Finland, and let Joost perform the chorus of his song as a a surprise to the crowd in the Grand Final?
Lawsuit against EBU because they don't follow their own rules and make it unsafe for artists. Full compesation for the Netherlands for 2024 and quit with eurovision. Its sadly not about songs anymore.
.
Netherlands is big6, so not unimportant to cover the costs. EBU has made efforts to get back less wealthy countries
What is clear as well is that the EBU doesn't protect neurodivergent people and doesn't feel the need to respect our boundaries even when arrangements have been made.
I'm Swiss and was looking forward to attend next year, now I'm not that sure. We face enough ableism in our daily life to actually go and support an organisation that doesn't care to be accessible for everyone.
That is the sad part.
Eurovision should be a fest for diversity and acceptance, bringing together people from different countries and cultures, "united by music". People should be able to feel good about participating and winning, enthusiastic about attending. It should be a great honour to be able to host it and to be able to attend it when it is held in your country.
Instead of now having to think about what political statement are you making either attending or not, or if you should support the organisation behind it and it's values, by going there or voting for your favourite act. I really really hope we can find the right track for this event again, but I right now I really do not like where it is going.
That’s what we were saying all along, he did nothing that should have disqualified him. Now he should get compensation, it has cost the Dutch television organisation lots to get him ready and Joost never got to perform. The EBU argument is BS, its just a lame excuse for their wrong decision.
How on earth did it take 3 months to come to the conclusion that there was no evidence to charge him. The damage is done now. You cannot turn the clock back. Why did they take the word of a member of staff over his version. Disgraceful over the top actions by the EBU. The investigation should have taken place after the final and not before. That member of staff should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves as they totally ruined that guys contest and actually ruined the contest for most fans.
EBU made a huge mistake and fail to acknowledge that.
And instead of trying to do a bit of damage control they made it even worse with their statement 😂.
Other countries complained about things backstage and they did ……….. exactly nothing about it.
Yeah, they are only digging their own grave deeper by statements like that. Using the "making it safe place for everyone" to back up their decisions, when that is exactly what they didn't manage to do and what caused this whole ruckus.
I think the entire situation is sad because Joost made a little mistake (while understandable) and AVROTROS offered so many options to make things right, offering to make a public apology, pay a fine etc etc. Joost never getting the opportunity to apologize is just so disappointing. The EBU response is plenty of reason for the Netherlands to skip 2025.
EBU has made a big mistake! I hope the EBU understands that it has made a mistake with Joost. It's really sad!
It feels like the EBU made a rushed decision and are now unwilling to admit their mistake. They couldn't possibly have made a fair decision in a matter of hours if it took the prosecutor 3 months to come to his conclusion that there was no evidence that a crime was committed. Given that the crime he was investigated for wasn't that serious and it was unclear what happened, the EBU should have let him compete and punished him afterwards after a more careful investigation. They could have fined him, for example.
The Netherlands should never enter this contest.
We where pushed out and for me the contest is done..... forever.....
Yes KING WILLIAM I knew you were on the right side! SERVED
EBU jumped the gun, made a fool of themselves, and now they're doubling down.
So his got wrongly disqualified… terrible feeling right now :(
We know from the start......at least i did.
No. The EBU is following different standards than Swedish law. Its not equivalent.
I can see a big backlash with this I can see alot off countries pulling out off next years contest that have not confirmed there participants ie Holland ireland ect ect
It was totally wrong what happened from the beginning 😢 I am from Germany and I am also confused what was happened to the other ones . Who have any trust in the ebu now?
Well said William!
EBU obviously doesn't have an issue with their employees forcing themselves on the contestants, since they can do whatever they want without consquences...
When i saw the title A HUGE weight dropped off my shoulders😭
The only reason The EBU is doubling down on their decision and the mystery woman (show your face girl) going to appeal is because they know and are very afraid of the lawsuits that are coming their way. If they apologize now they admit fault and they stand no chance in court
Yeah, I think everybody wants to know the name of this woman "hero"...
It does not sound like the EBU is going to make any changes at all. Maybe they will invest in more anti-booing technology because seems like they are going to need it. Joost Klein was done wrong and so were many other other artists. If Israel is there in 2025 I expect it to be just as bad as 2024.
Again with the Israel bashing... This has NOTHING to do with Israel! Enough already!
@@GPBKM The camera woman was Israeli, the delegation has been harrasing Joost behind the scenes. Israeli TV stations have also mocked him and a couple others. None of this drama would have happened if the Israeli delegation wasn't there. Morrocanoil is literally the main sponsor of eurovision.
@@ttt5205 No she wasn't, she was Swedish
@@sav0001 We don't know the nationality of the one that had the camera/phone. ESC is a multinational operation & people from all over come to work on it.
We do know that she wasn't israeli as that was specifically denied, because that came from a conflation with another bit of filming that the writer of that song did of Joost, while claiming that she only filmed a dancer. Reprehensible behaviour again from the israeli delegation, as they did throughout, but that wasn't the person the court case was about.
@@sav0001 Nope, it was likely Keren Peles, the Israeli song writer for Hurricane.
This bullshit would have never happened under Jon Ola Sand
Exactly
I'd say there is plenty of ground now to sue Martin Österdahl for aiming to destroy someone's career to deflect from his own mismanagement, additionally for spreading misinformation about the circumstances (e.g. hinting that it was all about Israel) that would grant the disqualification, and lastly causing massive financial loss to several parties.
Eurovision died when they barred Joost
The prosecutor wasn't available untill somewhere in august, that's why it has taking this long. Heard that somewhere on some news outlet (can't remember where I heard it :P )
@@OneTheAndOnlyOne no because they wanted some Dutch witnesses to be heard, that took some time.
@MariaMariamuzieklove yes I know. But they also told the prosecutor part in various tv shows (RTL Boulevard, Hart van Nederland, etc)
Listen to the camera women? We are all have been waiting for that! Silence is what we get in stead, now she wants to appeal. Joost did not murder her.....strange way to look at this minor thing that had happened. ....
Note: i was reacting to some one. But didn't push the answering button. 😂
It still hurts 😢
I feel sad for joost😢
The Netherlands should sit 2025 out, but get from the EBU that the next time we compete, we'll get a final spot. So we can make a statement and still benefit. Joost indicated somewhat that he wants to represent Belgium next year, so that way we still get to see him. Win win win
The final spot was earned by Joost, IMHO it's just making things even more unfair to hand a spot in the finals for this (it's already a bought spot by some countries IIRC)
EBU: "We do not tolerate inappropriate behaviour and will always respond to any workplace issues that are reported to us."
Also EBU: well, unless it's Israel...
yea, forgetting to not respond to the complmaints filled by countries
King William! That’s a great analysis
I want to EBU to announce they did had an agreement with Joost he would not be filmed and that one of their employees has broken that promise and is liable for the damages caused.
I keep coming back to the same feeling, which is that the last thing the EBU would have wanted on the morning of the 2024 Grand Final would be to disqualify anyone, let alone a fan favourite. Enough things were going wrong anyway, so they must have had their reasons. It would help kill the rancour if they gave a better explanation of those reasons. What was the nature of the threatening behaviour?
Well the press release from the Swedish prosecutor states: "the man made a movement that hit the woman's film camera". We don't know with what intensity he hit the camera, but according to the prosecutor it wasn't enough to cause serious fear. So I guess it can't have been that hard. I think he pushed the camera away, just like Cornald Maas of the Dutch delegation said. That deserves a reprimand, not a disqualification.
It seems EBU broke their side of a contract but Joost behaved also badly. Was it enough to disqualify him? Probably not in the context of an agreement... Irritation of the moment... But I hope the Dutch participate in 2025 and the delegation manages to get some delivery behind the scenes. Especially when there was a talk of rough behaviour from the members of the Israeli crew...
They disqualified Joost and The Netherlands but not even thought about disqualifying Israel over what’s going on.
Israel is a hot potato. It should be obvious to anyone in their right mind that the EBU is not tackling this. If they had kicked Israel out, there would have been a shitstorm and there has been one. If they hadn't allowed Israel to compete, there would have been a shitstorm, and there was. The only difference is simply how the EBU, and therefore Sweden, wanted to position itself politically towards Israel. This is a statement that is being sent to the whole world, and above all to Europe. You can't compare that with a Dutch artist, and if you do, then you have absolutely no idea how the world works and what consequences the exclusion of Israel would have had for the entire country. Just think about it.
There is even an example: When Japan recently commemorated the deaths of the atomic bombs, Israel was not invited. As a result, many Western heads of state and government also did not come to Japan. Such a decision against or for Israel has far-reaching consequences for the country.
i hope AvroTros still decide not to participate next year in this circus
They wrote that they want to participate in 2025 and they don't want to continue this conflict with EBU- they are not brave and afraid EBU, unfortunately
I don't know if NL will withdraw, but if they do, I do wonder what it means for the contest in terms of finances (and if so, will participation be more expensive for other countries?) and politics. I'm afraid it might have a huge ripple effect and lead to more countries withdrawing. ESC has been under fire in many places for its expenses, international politics, and general 'culture war' reasons. I am afraid that if the Netherlands withdraw's that might be the first domino of a big downfall of ESC in the next years. Not saying it will stop but they might have to downsize.
The Netherlands is the number 6th biggest contributor, so it will have financial consequences, the participation fee will probably go up and it will effect smaller (more poor countries)
6th biggest contributor and a drop in viewership of a couple of million. Also a lot of social media engagement coming from the Netherlands, that'll be less too. But I think that that financial setback is worth it for the EBU to keep the Netherlands away. It will only become difficult if more countries withdraw, but that does not seem to be the case now.
Avrotros should give a 2nd chance to Joost, for real.
In the press release from EBU published right after the decision to dq, they wrote: "We are not pre-judging the legal process but, given the circumstances of what occurred and the fact that the police case will shortly be handed to the prosecutor, it would not have been appropriate for Joost to participate in the Grand Final."
So, back then, the legal investigation was clearly used to justify the decision. Someone ought to dive into how "it's not appropriate to let him continue because there's a police investigation going on" has now become "all that legal stuff had nothing to do with our decision".
He should sue the EBU
We should see the video evidence.
FYI Joost has already confirmed personally, he will never perform at the Eurovision again
Source?
Source? He has written Eurovision 2025 in his Instagram bio.
He never said that
Not so long ago, he was open to the idea to participate and represent Belgium at Eurovision. I think it would be bad move for his career if he let his ego be bigger than his will to get more fans (more exposure leads to more fans). EBU did him dirty and he can be mad, he has all the right to do so, but it is wiser to participate if he has the correct song.
@perlaserrano1791 u didn't say anything about HIM not wanting to participate, u just said that in your opinion, he shouldn't
I think lots of good points have been made in the comments here. The only personal frustration I'd like to share is how the Dutch finally sent an entry that was unmistakably Dutch with the gabber sound - something they hadn't for a long time and we're criticized for - but because of what happened in Malmö, sending another entry in that genre will forever be tainted and feel.... Off. Europapa was the entry Dutch people had been waiting for for the last forty years and EBU just went and wasted all of that opportunity. Like dropping a million euro vase.
The reporter recorded footage of him, but there is no footage of the event? 🤔
You don't need any proof if a woman accuses a man of being abusive. *irony on*
@dinosarrus this isn't true at all.
@@AmyLarien it was for the EBU
I’m worried about 2025, if the EBU does not apologise to the Netherlands and Joost in particular, his fans will keep spamming EBU’s socials, and if they keep Israel in the competition, there will be a lot of unnecessary drama again. I can see another failure coming.
this contest was a mess now im happy that jesc will soonly take part in Spain
I mean there was sort of an tragedy. Why did Italy share the teelvote results the thursday evening and then next morning Joost was DQ. I think something did have to do with Israel in some way or form also because EBU didn't want Israel to win and were maybe shocked to see the leaked results of Italy that Israel won the televote.
Terrible that she could damage his career and his participation in the contest. And now she wants to play the victim again and "move on". Joost should sue her and the EBU.