Since when are the Uruk-hai the same as smaller orcs?? O.k, seems a arbitrary term according the search results. But Suruman made his own species as well The frame you used for this video also adds to the confusion
Didnt in the Hobbit they describe the head Orc chieftain is the son of Azog the Orc. Im big Tolkien fan. He had 3 different origins of Orca bred from Elves bred from the cave men we see briefly in Return of the King and created or spawned from primordial slime. He (Tolkien) never made it clear.
I think you’re right. My issue with ROP is that they were trying to make us sympathetic to the Orcs. Likes soldiers going off to the war. We’ve always ever seen them as beasts used to kill.
"For the Orcs had life and multiplied in the manner of the Children of Ilúvatar; and naught that had life of its own, nor the semblance of life, could Melkor ever make since his rebellion in the Ainulindalië before the Beginning: so say the wise" "There must have been orc-women. But in stories that seldom if ever see the Orcs except as soldiers of armies in the service of the evil lords we naturally would not learn much about their lives. Not much was known." "To the unfriendly who, not knowing them well, declared that Morgoth must have bred the Orcs from such a stock the Eldar answered: "Doubtless Morgoth, since he can make no living thing, bred Orcs from various kinds of Men" "The Shadow that bred them can only mock; it cannot make: not real, new things of its own. I don't think it gave life to the orcs, it only ruined and twisted them, and if they are to live at all, they have to live like other living creatures." When I first saw this scene, my first reaction was to laugh, which I think was the intention. The writers don't actually want us to really feel sympathetic to the orcs, they just want to explore the idea that they are not mindless drones who follow Sauron without question. The Rings of Power has done a lot of daft stuff, but they have clearly read more of Tolkien than you have. Your video is pretty much just a rehash of Critical Drinker's analysis. He's normally pretty good at analysing films but it does appear that ROP writers know a bit more about Tolkien's thoughts than they gave away in the (admittedly poor) series 1.
Orcs in Tolkien’s works are rarely, if ever, depicted with personal agency, individual lives, or emotions like love or familial bonds. They are shown as being bred in pits, as disposable tools for dark lords like Sauron and Morgoth. The idea of an Orc family, or a father Orc who doesn't want to go to war, would be at odds with how Tolkien presented them. This is not just a deviation but an outright misunderstanding of what Orcs represent in Tolkien’s legendarium. Tolkien is explicit that Orcs are not born in the traditional sense- they are bred, often in a grotesque, industrialized manner. The Uruk-hai, a variant of Orcs created by Saruman, were literally grown in pits and sent out as fully-formed killing machines. They have no childhood, no parentage in the conventional sense, and certainly no family units. The idea of an Orc "father" implies a degree of normalcy and humanity that Tolkien never intended. Family structures, emotional bonds, or a father figure with protective instincts toward his children are concepts that simply do not belong in the Orcish world. They are twisted parodies of life, devoid of the very things that make familial bonds possible. TL;DR this reduces Orcs from being nightmarish symbols of total corruption into misunderstood creatures who, if only given the chance, might live peacefully. This simply put cheapens Tolkien's message in a childish egotistical way that only the little Amazon minions could accomplish.
Azog is Bolgs father. So there is clearly a depiction of an orc father. Gollum murders and eats a goblin child before meeting Bilbo. At no point are orcs born fully grown in pits except in the PJ films. Seriously you're basing all your knowledge on the films.
Bolg's position as the son of Azog does not imply familial bonds in the human or Elvish sense. Orcs may have “offspring,” but these relationships are not based on affection or familial love. Instead, they are purely utilitarian. Orcs follow power and violence, and the idea of “lineage” among Orcs likely reflects a form of hierarchy or dominance rather than an emotional father-son relationship.
Orks spawn from spores. Orcs, nobody is sure because nobody has ever gotten close enough
Since when are the Uruk-hai the same as smaller orcs?? O.k, seems a arbitrary term according the search results. But Suruman made his own species as well
The frame you used for this video also adds to the confusion
Didnt in the Hobbit they describe the head Orc chieftain is the son of Azog the Orc. Im big Tolkien fan. He had 3 different origins of Orca bred from Elves bred from the cave men we see briefly in Return of the King and created or spawned from primordial slime.
He (Tolkien) never made it clear.
I think you’re right. My issue with ROP is that they were trying to make us sympathetic to the Orcs. Likes soldiers going off to the war.
We’ve always ever seen them as beasts used to kill.
Always have been
"For the Orcs had life and multiplied in the manner of the Children of Ilúvatar; and naught that had life of its own, nor the semblance of life, could Melkor ever make since his rebellion in the Ainulindalië before the Beginning: so say the wise"
"There must have been orc-women. But in stories that seldom if ever see the Orcs except as soldiers of armies in the service of the evil lords we naturally would not learn much about their lives. Not much was known."
"To the unfriendly who, not knowing them well, declared that Morgoth must have bred the Orcs from such a stock the Eldar answered: "Doubtless Morgoth, since he can make no living thing, bred Orcs from various kinds of Men"
"The Shadow that bred them can only mock; it cannot make: not real, new things of its own. I don't think it gave life to the orcs, it only ruined and twisted them, and if they are to live at all, they have to live like other living creatures."
When I first saw this scene, my first reaction was to laugh, which I think was the intention. The writers don't actually want us to really feel sympathetic to the orcs, they just want to explore the idea that they are not mindless drones who follow Sauron without question.
The Rings of Power has done a lot of daft stuff, but they have clearly read more of Tolkien than you have. Your video is pretty much just a rehash of Critical Drinker's analysis. He's normally pretty good at analysing films but it does appear that ROP writers know a bit more about Tolkien's thoughts than they gave away in the (admittedly poor) series 1.
Unfortunately, Amazon just ruined everything. They completely butchered. Galadriel and the lore is horrible.
Orcs in Tolkien’s works are rarely, if ever, depicted with personal agency, individual lives, or emotions like love or familial bonds. They are shown as being bred in pits, as disposable tools for dark lords like Sauron and Morgoth. The idea of an Orc family, or a father Orc who doesn't want to go to war, would be at odds with how Tolkien presented them.
This is not just a deviation but an outright misunderstanding of what Orcs represent in Tolkien’s legendarium. Tolkien is explicit that Orcs are not born in the traditional sense- they are bred, often in a grotesque, industrialized manner. The Uruk-hai, a variant of Orcs created by Saruman, were literally grown in pits and sent out as fully-formed killing machines. They have no childhood, no parentage in the conventional sense, and certainly no family units.
The idea of an Orc "father" implies a degree of normalcy and humanity that Tolkien never intended. Family structures, emotional bonds, or a father figure with protective instincts toward his children are concepts that simply do not belong in the Orcish world. They are twisted parodies of life, devoid of the very things that make familial bonds possible.
TL;DR this reduces Orcs from being nightmarish symbols of total corruption into misunderstood creatures who, if only given the chance, might live peacefully. This simply put cheapens Tolkien's message in a childish egotistical way that only the little Amazon minions could accomplish.
Azog is Bolgs father. So there is clearly a depiction of an orc father.
Gollum murders and eats a goblin child before meeting Bilbo.
At no point are orcs born fully grown in pits except in the PJ films. Seriously you're basing all your knowledge on the films.
@@IS-Benni 🤘💯
Bolg's position as the son of Azog does not imply familial bonds in the human or Elvish sense. Orcs may have “offspring,” but these relationships are not based on affection or familial love. Instead, they are purely utilitarian. Orcs follow power and violence, and the idea of “lineage” among Orcs likely reflects a form of hierarchy or dominance rather than an emotional father-son relationship.
None of these people in the comments read lmao
they always did