Well that is just dumb. Do you want to talk about the mic placement? The debate will continue. The debate will never end. This is the way it should be. When drum debate ends, life ends. Nobody wants life to end.
I just bought a 1980’s Gretsch USA Custom power-tom kit… LOVING them! I grew up on Matt Frenette (Loverboy) and his power tom kit - just heaven to see and hear!
I usually prefer shallow toms, but that I’m using an 8x8 as a rack and a 10x10 as a floor Tom, the extra depth is perfect for small drums in my opinion.very cute
I like a deeper shell but use a more shallow set of rack toms. I don't like to tilt my toms towards me and would need to with deep toms to keep the batter surface low enough and playable.
@@bassedtaz no need to do that, just use an off-set configuration, like if you had a double bass drum kit. It works very well, unless you have more than 2 deep rack toms and a big bass drum. In this case you can also try an "Ian Paice's set up". It looks weird, but it works fine. In fact it's a very ergonomic set up, regardeless of your toms dephts. It also helps to sit up relatively high (hips at around 70° of flexion), wich in fact is more ergonomic than sitting too low (90° of flexion or further).
I way prefer the shallower tom. It seems to get down to business quicker. Am I actually hearing the delay of the two heads working together? I dunno but the sound of the shallow drum is what I always aim for when tuning.
I personally prefer the sound of the deeper Tom a bit more, but obviously that’s subjective. I’d always heard it described as shallower Tom’s having a bit more “attack,” while deeper toms have a bit more “depth” (pardon the pun). To my ear, that’s what I hear in this example - a bit more “front end” on the shallow tom, and a bit less attack but more “bottom end” on the deeper tom. Now, I’d like to see a another comparison side by side: One with the deep tome set like this, and the other with the deeper tom tuned slightly higher - so the overall tone matches the shallow drum and see what that does to it’s attack.
The only different I can hear is that the deeper tom is a lower note (because there's more mass). Decay, sustain, attack... To me there was no meaningful difference. My guess is that if you tuned the drum (as opposed to the heads) to the same note (ie. tightening the heads on the deeper tom) it would have more sustain/resonance, because that's what happens when you tune a tom higher into its range. Because it has more mass, the baseline note is lower, thus you can tune it higher to get the same note, producing a more resonant sound at the same note.
exactly the greater mass of air in the shell causes the pitch to be lowered while increasing the body to the sound regardless of whether you tune the skin resonant or leave it slow..
I prefer the deeper one. I could describe it as lower, darker and richer in tone, and also more powerful. Nothing a good eq can't achieve with shallower ones, of course, but deeper ones sound very satisfaying to my hear in person. On he oher hand, shallower are easier to set up in an ergonomic position, especially in a big multi toms set up. Anyway, my go to is a very convenient middle ground. My 12" tom is in fact 10" deep, just the middle point between these 2 (8" vs 12"). It sounds awesome and is also easy to set up comfortabily.
The best 12 inch tom i've heard in real life was a 12x10 Sonor Delite. I haven't heard deeper ones tho, so idk if i should go deeper. I know it sounds insane, but right now i'm planning for 12x10, 13x11 and 15x12 over two 26x20 bass drums with 18" and 20" floor toms.
A lot of what I have always thought about drum brand, wood, heads, etc., is being proven with these vids. Both drums sound good. I can hear the slight difference in tone and sustain in this set up, however, I don't think I'd hear those differences with the whole drum set in action or within the mix of the rest of the music.
Shallower or deeper toms of the same diameter produce the same note. Depth adds greater volume hence those 80s deep toms being termed 'power toms'. Shallower drums have more clarity, attack and speak quicker. Deep drums sound thinner than their counterpart shallower cousins. That's it.
The deeper/longer tom sounds “tuned down” a half step. So does depth ultimately determine note value? Meaning if the tom were 24 inches long would it sound another half step down i.e. inverse square law? Or am I “way off”..?
I couldn't tell the proportion, but depht definitely affects the note. Think of octobans for example. The longer they are, the lower the note, having all of them the same diameter and even at equally tensioned heads (all of them in the high side of the spectrum, of course, since they are small diameter drums).
The depth is the main factor that determines note value IF you are tuning the drum to its resonant note, as the resonant note is a function of the enclosure size. But you can in theory get any note you like out of it depending on the characteristics of the skin.
I prefer deeper toms as the tones will match up better, When you compare a shallow tom vs a deep one to the floor tom the shallow will sound disconnected and punch out too much.
Nice demonstration. No need to eq boost the fundamental tone with the deeper drum. In this age of over-processing sound, it's not surprising that sacrificing tone isn't a big concern.
Problem with deeper drums is they not as good ergonomically. Shallower drums are easier to position around the kit while making fewer compromises with your cymbals.
So I presume these drums are tuned to the same tension but the fundamental note is certainly not the same. naturally the deeper shell will be lower, and sustain longer. this much was obvious. I think a more conclusive experiment would be to have tuned both to the same pitch and then see the actual difference having deeper toms makes.
The heads were tuned to the same exact pitch, to the cent. With a tune bot. The fundamental as well apparently changes with size, which does make sense. I was surprised to, but the heads, while muting the other head, on their own, sounded identical.
@@giuliocarmassi ah I see. It’s still not so shocking, I think I’d still like to hear the tonal nuances that come with deeper toms given they’re cranked to the same fundamental note. Thanks for your reply!
I mean it’s a tad bit deeper bass, but that could be tuning. I’ve played deep toms for 27 years and I’m looking to buy a new kit and I think I’m sold on 3 top shallow toms and 2 floor toms
The difference in overall 'note' was actually less than I expected. But the difference in response was huge. I guess this phenomenon is why those really deep kick drums fell out of favour.
Nah, it's just fashion stuff... in some years deeper ones will also become fashionable again, then shallower ones again, and so on, over and over again.... 🤷🏻♂️😂
I heard both drums sustaining for pretty much the same length. I thought the only difference was the deeper was darker and just slightly lower in pitch. Not sure if same tuning means both tuned with the same tension or the same pitch. But i thought the shallower drum had a clearer overall sound. Like someone did some slight eq to clean up the muddiness. The other sounded darker like it was more muddier.
@@RockBoBsteRMusic both sutains are similar, but I still find the deepest tom's a bit longer. Beside the lower tone in the deepest, that I also notice, I also seem to spot more volume on it. It could be due to the fact that there is more mass vibrating (wood and air), but it could also be just the player hitting harder one than the other... 🤷🏻♂️
INdeed...I have always disliked this "baby tom" trend of the last 20ish years. I grew up with 70-mid 90's normal sized drums aka power/square size tom, standard 24&26 inch kick drums, and standard 16x16,18x16/18 & even 20 inch floor toms.I also don't like the 'table top' angled and down low height rack toms ...bring those things up and angle them towards you. I like sitting low and having my drums be tall and big and feel like I disappear behind a wall of toms slowly enveloping me.
Better? What is"better" for you? I mean, it's a very subjective thing, I prefer the deeper one, but I'd like to know what do you consider better or worse.
Guys like you are hilarious. Is dark blue "better" than light blue? Is French vanilla better than vanilla? lol It's asinine to assign "better or worse" to something when the topic is 100% subjective. *_YOU_* prefer the sound of shallow toms over deeper toms. And there's no apostrophe or capital M in "toms." lol
Shorter tom sounds much better in my opinion.Deeper tom sounds deader/not as lively and not as good. I cannot stand playing deep power toms on a 24" bass drum like i did before for many years since i am now playing shorter modern sized toms on a 22'" kick.I enjoy playing the drums more now and everything is in the right position now.
The shallow is way more aggressive and presence. I stinking love it
Thank you for this video! It effectively settles an endless debate on the various drum forums.
Well that is just dumb. Do you want to talk about the mic placement? The debate will continue. The debate will never end. This is the way it should be. When drum debate ends, life ends. Nobody wants life to end.
@@GeoffreyCairney lmao, you're funny man
Never in a million years would I have thought that a shallower drum produces silkier attack. What. Thank you so much
I have a custom kit from Beetroot drums here in South Africa . 20x 8 kick 12x4.75 and 14 x6 toms , Keller shells sounds ❤
I just bought a 1980’s Gretsch USA Custom power-tom kit… LOVING them! I grew up on Matt Frenette (Loverboy) and his power tom kit - just heaven to see and hear!
I usually prefer shallow toms, but that I’m using an 8x8 as a rack and a 10x10 as a floor Tom, the extra depth is perfect for small drums in my opinion.very cute
Lol you should tell people you use square toms and they’ll be like “wow he must be in an 80s tribute band” then show them your kit.
An actual comparison! Awesome thanks
I like a deeper shell but use a more shallow set of rack toms. I don't like to tilt my toms towards me and would need to with deep toms to keep the batter surface low enough and playable.
Or, you could put your kick drum on the other side and use a lefty double kick pedal. You could then use power toms and mount them low and flat.
@@bassedtaz no need to do that, just use an off-set configuration, like if you had a double bass drum kit. It works very well, unless you have more than 2 deep rack toms and a big bass drum. In this case you can also try an "Ian Paice's set up". It looks weird, but it works fine. In fact it's a very ergonomic set up, regardeless of your toms dephts. It also helps to sit up relatively high (hips at around 70° of flexion), wich in fact is more ergonomic than sitting too low (90° of flexion or further).
Excellent video, thank you. I like the deeper drum better.
Thank you, Giulio! Super helpful.
I liked the deep shell best. Maybe it's the room/reverb? but I like the follow through better.
I way prefer the shallower tom. It seems to get down to business quicker. Am I actually hearing the delay of the two heads working together? I dunno but the sound of the shallow drum is what I always aim for when tuning.
I personally prefer the sound of the deeper Tom a bit more, but obviously that’s subjective.
I’d always heard it described as shallower Tom’s having a bit more “attack,” while deeper toms have a bit more “depth” (pardon the pun). To my ear, that’s what I hear in this example - a bit more “front end” on the shallow tom, and a bit less attack but more “bottom end” on the deeper tom.
Now, I’d like to see a another comparison side by side: One with the deep tome set like this, and the other with the deeper tom tuned slightly higher - so the overall tone matches the shallow drum and see what that does to it’s attack.
@@bradcrosier1332 ive never foudn deeper toms easy to put in a record.
@@scoremix8556 Not enough room!
Yes. I think the deeper tom would better suit a single head concert tom style.
Wow, big difference. I prefer the shallow one.
Shallow! Smaller drums to me just sound and feel more lively which I love, the attack and volume are greater also along either roundness.
deep toms sound thicker but they give you more overtones which can make them hard to tune
The only different I can hear is that the deeper tom is a lower note (because there's more mass). Decay, sustain, attack... To me there was no meaningful difference.
My guess is that if you tuned the drum (as opposed to the heads) to the same note (ie. tightening the heads on the deeper tom) it would have more sustain/resonance, because that's what happens when you tune a tom higher into its range. Because it has more mass, the baseline note is lower, thus you can tune it higher to get the same note, producing a more resonant sound at the same note.
exactly the greater mass of air in the shell causes the pitch to be lowered while increasing the body to the sound regardless of whether you tune the skin resonant or leave it slow..
I prefer the deeper one. I could describe it as lower, darker and richer in tone, and also more powerful. Nothing a good eq can't achieve with shallower ones, of course, but deeper ones sound very satisfaying to my hear in person. On he oher hand, shallower are easier to set up in an ergonomic position, especially in a big multi toms set up.
Anyway, my go to is a very convenient middle ground. My 12" tom is in fact 10" deep, just the middle point between these 2 (8" vs 12"). It sounds awesome and is also easy to set up comfortabily.
The best 12 inch tom i've heard in real life was a 12x10 Sonor Delite. I haven't heard deeper ones tho, so idk if i should go deeper. I know it sounds insane, but right now i'm planning for 12x10, 13x11 and 15x12 over two 26x20 bass drums with 18" and 20" floor toms.
Shallow all day long!!!!☝️ looks and sounds better!!
9x12 would be just perfect
A lot of what I have always thought about drum brand, wood, heads, etc., is being proven with these vids.
Both drums sound good. I can hear the slight difference in tone and sustain in this set up, however, I don't think I'd hear those differences with the whole drum set in action or within the mix of the rest of the music.
Shallow rack toms and deep floor toms seem to be the winning combo
ive always preferred shallow toms.
Shallower or deeper toms of the same diameter produce the same note. Depth adds greater volume hence those 80s deep toms being termed 'power toms'. Shallower drums have more clarity, attack and speak quicker. Deep drums sound thinner than their counterpart shallower cousins. That's it.
The deeper/longer tom sounds “tuned down” a half step. So does depth ultimately determine note value? Meaning if the tom were 24 inches long would it sound another half step down i.e. inverse square law? Or am I “way off”..?
I couldn't tell the proportion, but depht definitely affects the note. Think of octobans for example. The longer they are, the lower the note, having all of them the same diameter and even at equally tensioned heads (all of them in the high side of the spectrum, of course, since they are small diameter drums).
The depth is the main factor that determines note value IF you are tuning the drum to its resonant note, as the resonant note is a function of the enclosure size. But you can in theory get any note you like out of it depending on the characteristics of the skin.
I really prefer the 12x8
perfect, thank you!
I prefer deeper toms as the tones will match up better, When you compare a shallow tom vs a deep one to the floor tom the shallow will sound disconnected and punch out too much.
Shallow all day.
Do you like a boing fusion sound in the attack of your drums, or do you like a tribal low end?
Deeper has more dynamic!
it raises the fundamental pitch.
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Nice demonstration. No need to eq boost the fundamental tone with the deeper drum. In this age of over-processing sound, it's not surprising that sacrificing tone isn't a big concern.
Problem with deeper drums is they not as good ergonomically. Shallower drums are easier to position around the kit while making fewer compromises with your cymbals.
So I presume these drums are tuned to the same tension but the fundamental note is certainly not the same. naturally the deeper shell will be lower, and sustain longer. this much was obvious. I think a more conclusive experiment would be to have tuned both to the same pitch and then see the actual difference having deeper toms makes.
The heads were tuned to the same exact pitch, to the cent. With a tune bot. The fundamental as well apparently changes with size, which does make sense. I was surprised to, but the heads, while muting the other head, on their own, sounded identical.
@@giuliocarmassi ah I see. It’s still not so shocking, I think I’d still like to hear the tonal nuances that come with deeper toms given they’re cranked to the same fundamental note. Thanks for your reply!
I mean it’s a tad bit deeper bass, but that could be tuning. I’ve played deep toms for 27 years and I’m looking to buy a new kit and I think I’m sold on 3 top shallow toms and 2 floor toms
The difference in overall 'note' was actually less than I expected. But the difference in response was huge. I guess this phenomenon is why those really deep kick drums fell out of favour.
But they sound amazing, i kinda want one now after playing on my drum instructor's Ludwig kit.
Nah, it's just fashion stuff... in some years deeper ones will also become fashionable again, then shallower ones again, and so on, over and over again.... 🤷🏻♂️😂
👍
The deeper tom sounds less focused, more messy.
The main difference was the sustain of the note on the longer drum of course and only makes sense.
I heard both drums sustaining for pretty much the same length. I thought the only difference was the deeper was darker and just slightly lower in pitch.
Not sure if same tuning means both tuned with the same tension or the same pitch.
But i thought the shallower drum had a clearer overall sound. Like someone did some slight eq to clean up the muddiness. The other sounded darker like it was more muddier.
@@RockBoBsteRMusic both sutains are similar, but I still find the deepest tom's a bit longer. Beside the lower tone in the deepest, that I also notice, I also seem to spot more volume on it. It could be due to the fact that there is more mass vibrating (wood and air), but it could also be just the player hitting harder one than the other... 🤷🏻♂️
8x12 👍
Man you are so fucking amazingly talented in every single instrument you play
Do the same thing but 12 x12 no reso head compare all 3
deeper shell..under percussion it swings a lot
I like shallow one. recent trend is more better to me.
So it's basically a traditional rack tom size vs a square size comparison?
I’ll take the power toms over shallow toms every time.
Hell yes...my 4 racks are power sizes. I love my deep shells.
@@andrewkalipetis7128 check out my power tom kit! ruclips.net/video/AlcG--7piII/видео.html
INdeed...I have always disliked this "baby tom" trend of the last 20ish years. I grew up with 70-mid 90's normal sized drums aka power/square size tom, standard 24&26 inch kick drums, and standard 16x16,18x16/18 & even 20 inch floor toms.I also don't like the 'table top' angled and down low height rack toms ...bring those things up and angle them towards you. I like sitting low and having my drums be tall and big and feel like I disappear behind a wall of toms slowly enveloping me.
The difference is noticeable. The deeper tom sounds better, it has better low end and more rumble... I like it.
That ain’t a 12x12 rack tom, that’s little Jimmy’s floor tom
shallow
Size is not document!! The shallow have more full bodye
Nothing
The shallow Tom's definitely sound better
Better? What is"better" for you? I mean, it's a very subjective thing, I prefer the deeper one, but I'd like to know what do you consider better or worse.
Guys like you are hilarious. Is dark blue "better" than light blue? Is French vanilla better than vanilla? lol
It's asinine to assign "better or worse" to something when the topic is 100% subjective. *_YOU_* prefer the sound of shallow toms over deeper toms.
And there's no apostrophe or capital M in "toms." lol
@@Alfred_-vp9ys what are you ranting about? I just said I think the shallow Tom sound better which they do to me what's your problem?
Deeper shells give more attack
The Hardest thing to do is to find $Work$
This is all subjective. Variations of rims, heads and TUNING all make a difference. I don't like the tuning on either of these drums.
Did you not read the title of the video? All rims and heads and tuning are the same. SMH
Yeah sis you not read it? How would you tune your drums and how would they sound compared to these drums?
Shorter tom sounds much better in my opinion.Deeper tom sounds deader/not as lively and not as good. I cannot stand playing deep power toms on a 24" bass drum like i did before for many years since i am now playing shorter modern sized toms on a 22'" kick.I enjoy playing the drums more now and everything is in the right position now.
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻