@@GadgetsGearCoffee Tried Method 2..the long-hold of the Manual button. Didn't work actually. Even with the Manual button held down, after 7 seconds the pre-infusion ends and it ramps up to full pressure. Will try Method 1 next...
So, I'm gonna try to answer your question about low pressure pre infusion vs slayer mod: But first, congrats on your videos, I've watched them more than once. I had a La Pavoni, but I hope to soon be able to buy a BDB. Meanwhile, I watch BDB videos to taper the upgradeitis, and yours is the best on RUclips! The slayer mod is useful throughout the shot: you can (1) manipulate the flavor and texture by changing the flow profile (like a londinium style, where you taper the pressure at the second half or so of the shot, to keep the coffee flow constant as the puck degrades and it's resistance gets lower), or by doing slow ramp ups and downs of pressure, etc. This can be better controlled by coupling the machine with a scale that shows live liquid flow. and (2) salvage shots that would flow too quickly in a flat pressure profile, and otherwise be underextracted. The low pressure pre infusion is useful because the lower flow of water can allow for the puck to expand slowly and in a more uniform way, thus lowering the chance of channels when the full flow of water is happening. If the puck were exposed to this higher flow from the beginning, the puck expansion would be different, and less uniform. Lance Hedrick has a nice video about it! It is the one where he talks about whether this is te end game machine! Also, Kyle Rowsell has a video on shot profiles!
Maybe it's the coffees that I have these days but they seem less finicky OR I'm less finicky or a combination of both. I still track and tweak my coffees but once I'm quite dialled in with my KEY (which is also very consistent), if I like the flavour in the cup and I'm content enough, I don't infinitely keep tweaking to make it marginally better. "Meanwhile, I watch BDB videos to taper the upgradeitis, and yours is the best on RUclips!" 1. watching videos will only ENHANCE the upgradeitis haha 2. Thank you for the kind words! Comments like these keep me going.
Great video! Another thing I'd say for light roasts is to pull them hotter. In the video she has it set to 202F, and some beans benefit from even higher temperatures.
Great timing! I started doing just this on my BBE literally yesterday (on BBE you hold any shot button for as long as you want to pre-infuse)! I see first drops and let go of the button around 11-12 second mark. Had the same observation that I need to grind finer than with standard preinfusion. Light roast shots pulled this way come out really nice! Smooth, no harshness, sweet; still quite bright/acidic but not overpoweringly, lemony acidic. Regardless, still have to pull pretty long shots though to really tame that acidity - 18in/42 out or more
Wish I had found this video sooner. I’ve been struggling to pull a shot with what I now know is a light roast. Figured longer pre-infusion might help. Looks like I didn’t let it go long enough. I had the pre-infusion set to 25 seconds. Still didn’t make it to first drip. I’ll give your manual trick a try this afternoon.
How did it go? coffee is a finicky thing and every bean and batch tends to be different, so you have to constantly tweak and go back to the basics. If even at 25s pre-infusion you didn't get first drips and it looks like the it's choking, go coarser, slightly more than you think, then work you way back to fine to get the right extraction!
Hi we love your knowledge of coffee. We are new owners of the dual boiler. Do you have a video for beginners please? We have had 2 manual sunbeam cafe series for the past 15 years so this is a bit more technical for us. Thank you :-)
I had seen it before, but neither understood nor assimilated. After three months of using this machine, I come back to your video, and I tested the finger pressed on the button: 10 seconds of pre-infusion, then let the pressure rise, between 7 bars and 9 bars (less or finer grinding) the coffee is better at 7 bars. Thank you for your valuable experiences and advice 🙏👍✨💕 Je l'avais vu auparavant, mais ni compris ni assimilé. Après trois mois d'utilisation de cette machine, je reviens sur votre vidéo, et j'ai testé le doigt appuyé sur le bouton : 10 secondes de pré-infusion, puis laisser la pression monter, entre 7 bars et 9 bars (mouture moins ou plus fine) le café est meilleur à 7 bars. Merci pour vos précieux expériences et conseils.
super! contente ça a marché. J'ai plein d'autres vidéos sur le BDB sur mon channel qui pourraient t'aider. Un jour p-e tu pourras essayer le slayer mod
Low flow is talking about output into the cup, and pressure is relating to the resistance the water has meeting the puck. You can have low pressure and high flow if your grind is coarse (turbo shots) but you have a low pressure low flow when your grind is dialed in to creating resistance
Damn it's 10pm and I'm inspired to make another cup 😬. This may be the video that pushes me toward a flat burr grinder. Currently have the and Sette 270. Feel the Sette has had it's day 🤔
I went from Sette 270 to the KEY, I did a whole review on that and there is a comparison between the Sette 270 VS KEY coming up this week as well! If you're into light roasts, which I assume you are, then yes a flat burr or even the KEY, is something to look into. I've never had or played with a flat burr yet (though a friend has a Specialista Mignon and at some point we might have a coffee geek day together) to see.
@Jess Cuz can't wait to see it, will definitely help steer me to my next grinder 👌🏻. Leaning towards a flat burr but who knows, maybe ill end up with both 😬. Damn the rabbit hole. Either way, currently on the BDB i run a max time pre infusion at about 80 percent pressure. Effectively an 80 percent pressure shot. Its good. Today i went with your skills and reduced the pressure to minimum, made the grind finer then let it go after pre infusion once the first drops came. Was super nice 👌🏻
What I've been doing for years is, pressing the manual button for 8 or 10 seconds, let the pack sit for 2 minutes in the group head, and then doing the regular 20 or so seconds extraction, it's been working out for me fine!
BDB owner - with slayer mod. Would say you're 80% there with this approach. What you're missing is the ability to pressure profile post pre-infusion, which can be a lot of fun. The actual mod pretty simple, the hardest part might just be opening the machine up xD
It's actually already opened up :p cuz I had to adjust the OPV. If it's around 80% of a slayer mod, I may not bother with it. But who knows where I'll be... Would you say it affects the puck much more with the slayer mod? And how?
@@GadgetsGearCoffee as the shot progresses you can reduce the pressure (to give a pseudo lever effect) which will reduce puck erosion. Shots can taste sweeter as you are more in control of extraction rate. Also the mod is useful for saving shots when you don’t grind fine enough 😁 But honestly most days I do a very low pressure 25 second preinfusion and just let it do it’s thing.
Jess - once you have first drops and let go of manual how long should the shot take to reach target weight? Should it be a quick shot or doesn’t matter?
Have you tried doing the “slayer style” shot without the mod? Basically turn the hot water slightly open which diverts water from the group head to the hot water tap and limits the flow into the puck (mine can get as low as about 2ml per second). Usually I just set my pre infusion pressure to 55% then hold the manual button down, once I hit 3 bar I open the dial slightly to hold it at 3 bar until I’m happy with my saturation (I usually wait until there is 10% extracted in the cup which is 3-4g). I then release the manual button and close the dial allowing it to reach 9 bars. I then do a level style finish by slowly opening the dial to slowly bring the pressure down until I’m done. So usually goes for a 2:1 ratio with 40g out: 0-3 bar until drops form Hold 3 bar until 3-4g in the cup Allow it to get to 9 bar Once around 20-25g slowly open valve and bring pressure down to 5-6 bar until 40g out Only 2 issues with this compared to the proper mod is that a) you waste water and b) if you open the dial too much it diverts all the water from the group to the hot water. There is only a small window to open but it’s more than enough to play around with the flow.
I've heard of that mod and hadn't tried it cuz of the water waste but I suppose I could give it a go a few times to see if slayer mod would be worth it. I think slayer mod would be helpful for super light roasts, which I've had a few times. Most of the time it's a med light to light and this has been working out. The only diff with the water valve and slayer mod seems to be the slower ramp up to 9 and tapering down to 5-6 bar at the end but the puck erosion at the end doesn't seem to be an issue for me.
@@GadgetsGearCoffee I find it fun to play around with flow profiling and usually use this for most light to med roasts. Let me know if you notice a difference, I find it adds an extra boost to flavour/intensity in the cup
@@GadgetsGearCoffee you can catch the water in a cup and use it for something else or put the water back into the water tank. Also since you only open the hot water spigot a little to control the flow at the grouphead, not a lot of water comes out. For two shots in the morning with this mod, I'm only using around 20ml of extra water, which is literally a drop in the bucket. To do this mod, you need to open up the top and just adjust the position of the switch at the hot water knob. Very easy to do and easily reversible, also, no need to touch the water pipes. I've been using the mod mainly to lower the pressure at the end of the extraction of the medium roast coffee. The bitterness of the extracted espresso has reduced a lot.
come back with your findings! I just tried dark roast beans with the 20 sec pre infusion, the full blast pressure was low something like 5 and the shot was ugly and the whole thing was 29 seconds but it was still delicious surprisingly! I guess it was sort of like a turbo shot.
@@GadgetsGearCoffee thanks for the reply! I'll try both dark and light roasts as well. Ill report back and might even have some questions for you haha. Thanks again!
Thanks for this great video! I got better shots with this „mod“/hack. Did/do you also have stuck puck? I got stuck puck frequently especially when brewing light roast coffee. It seems to be more frequent using this „mod“/hack. I use IMS baskets since the very beginning. Any clues?
Has any1 tried this with a dark roast and is it any good. Btw love your content got a bdb and a niche grinder. I do love full bodied darker roasts and set my bdb to 60% for 8 sec. I will give this a go but with a darker roast and see how it turns out. Keep up the great work👍
I think it could help a little but if you're not struggling with dark roasts and usually, it's just easier to extract I think the long pre infusion won't help that much. If anything I find you may have a lower pressure overall but still have good taste so it might be confusing if you rely on the pressure but play around and report back for other dark roast lovers ♥ and also, thanks for being a viewer 😊
Hey, great video. I have a barista pro paired with a niche and now wondering if the upgrade to a bdb is worth it… any advice would be much appreciated. 🙏🏽
not sure if I got it. you hold the button then let it go after the first drops so it reaches the full pressure? but at the end how come you were still pressing the button? 🤔 What I saw people doing was setting the pre infusion to 60'' then setting the pump pressure(pp) to ,for example 71 ,so the machine would never reach the 9 bar during the extraction.
aha so I wrote the wrong thing on the video I think that's where the confusion is. While it's extracting my finger is on the MANUAL button but NOT PRESSING, the MANUAL button. "To manually control the low pressure pre-infusion duration, press and hold the MANUAL button. When the required pre-infusion duration is met, release button to begin full pump pressure. Press MANUAL button again to stop extraction."
New BDB owner and frustrated on getting good results on light roasted bean! Thanks for this input! One question though; will this method still works if using puckscreen?
Hi Jess. Got a follow up question on grind size. When u said we can "grind finer", how fine should we grind? I am using niche grinder and my usual grind size was 20. Then using this hack, I tried using grind size 18, even 15, and I got total time about the same (50s-ish). I was wondering if I can push even more. I guess my question is; when u brew, u have this golden ratio; 1:2 in 25-30s. Then u get which grind size u should have. How about when using this hack? How fine should u go? Thanks for inspiring us!
is pump mod the slayer mod or is that changing an actual part like the pump? I haven't changed the shower head or the basket, I had read mixed reviews about the shower head not always fitting well and for the basket I had read a lot of people mentioning it made no visible difference so I hadn't bothered
@@GadgetsGearCoffee I mean changing the Pump. Its supposed to quieten the machine down some and increase pressure stability. I was thinkig about doing the basket/showerhead Swap since I found a bundle With ims precision parts and a bottomless Portafilter. I tried your method Yesterday and it improved my flat white markedly still kind of rough/bitter in the aftertaste though. Might need to grind finer still.
@@alexanderz8052 ah yes the actual pump to the brass one? I thought about it but it seemed like more work than necessary and the sound isn't bad I only make 1-2 coffees a day I can manage with the noise
Hi jeeeeeess!!! Tnx for this video!! Short question: how could I set the pressure to reach 7 and not 9 bars during full pressure extraction phase? I use manual preinfusion and at about 20 secs I start seeing first drops, but with my light roast coffees as soon as the pressure jumps to 9 bars, espresso loses body and structure… I would like to extract at 7 bars but don’t know how to set up the pump pressure. Do you think that slayer mod is mandatory to achieve this??? Thanks a lot again!! 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
You pre-infuse as long as necessary, then let it run and then stop the shot once you've gotten the yield you want for the ratio you want (given it's dialed in)
I did not realize you Said initially that you're pressong the pre-infusion for Like 20 Seconds. Its about 12 for me right now. Guess I'll be going even finer on the grounds then.
Great video. I've got the BDB and tried this on my finest grind setting. Dripping starts early, about 10 seconds in (20g stock basket), I release the button around 2ps and the infusion is super super fast. Do you have any experience with Baratza 270i? I'm wondering if this grinder isn't fine enough. ideas?
I have a review of the Sette 270 (as well as the 270 vs WW Key) so yes I do have experience. It can grind fine enough, sometimes grinding too fine can do some weird things so if anything go coarser and adjust and then go finer incrementally. If you have a dark roast and are doing this long pre-infusion, I think it might give a low pressure for the rest and come out super fast.
Nice video and learning a lot to brew my coffee with light roast bean. Can you share the grinder size setting if ur Barazta sette 270 for light roast bean. Thx
there is no point in sharing grinder settings ever between grinders because every single grinder is always going to have slight variations, so I can't really :\ I also don't have it anymore I sold it, there are way too many variables in beans themselves, roast, density, batches then the grinders themselves even in the same model
@@GadgetsGearCoffee I just tried it. The first drop of coffee came out around 14s but the pressure of my dual boiler didn’t go up to 7-9 bars but merely reached 5 bars. Anything went wrong? Did I grinder the coffee too fine?
@@desmondchan6054 take note and try again, either you're grinding too fine, grinding too coarse, tamping isn't good, it's going to be a lot of studying up and figuring it out
@@GadgetsGearCoffee I try this morning with coarser grinder. The result was the other way around (1st drop at 12s with lower final pressure - ~3bars). It means not enough “blockage” for the pressure to go up. I will make it again after work today. 😂 hope it could finally make it.
@@GadgetsGearCoffee in fact the taste of light roasts is interesting. Never have that kinda fruit favours in a coffee b4. Worth to keep trying for a balanced favour cup of coffee that I like.
Ordered a dual boiler which should be here in June and may try the slayer mod but will play with pre-infusion first too. I keep coming back to Square Mile’s SweetShop which switches but is currently Kenyan and Peruvian. It is a blend of natural and washed. I never thought I’d like a coffee like this, it tasted a wee bit funky at first, but I’m hooked and keep coming back to it. Looking for natural/washed combos that are closer to the Sonoran desert. Hate to ship coffee around the world. I have tried everything from Mostra to Vibrant to Onyx to Tony’s to Hatch. Hatch has some of my all time faves too. Their Gamma and Blackout are my chocolate choice faves. Curious what your faves are.
I try to stay local but someone gave me some international coffee from Japan (Apollon's gold) which is suppppper light and I really liked it and now.. my local stuff isn't doing it for me unfortunately so my favourite local roaster isn't really my favourite anymore and I'm looking for new stuff, trying not to go international but at least still keep it national
been getting disappointed by roaster consistency as well - same bean (perhaps not same batch tho) and roasted uneven or darker than a previous time I purchased it - the more experience and the further I go into this journey, the more picky I get.. it's like the negative of gaining knowledge
@@GadgetsGearCoffee yeah SweetShop has never been as good as the first time. I’m searching for something funky like the first time. It was sweet and sour at the same time. Subsequent batches are good but never as funky as that first time. And once you have tasted that “god shot” you are forever jaded. Nothing is quite as good. Plus I’m on a Bambino until my BDB arrives. My Barista Touch’s grinder started acting up so I had to return it. Trying to pull a good shot on a smaller machine is so much harder. Flow is higher it seems and I think it’s set up for dual wall portafilter primarily so I’m wresting with that too. Wasted a lot of good beans this week. 🤪
New subscriber here! Love your content by the way. So I unboxed my duel boiler and smart grinder and am struggling with my shots. I’m using setting 12 on grinder and 18g of coffee. Am I close? Lol
Hate to break it to you but giving grind settings, even with the same grinder, is useless information since that changes from unique grinder to grinder even of the same brand and model. Try to go by coffee recipe if the roaster have it or start with the classic 1:2 ratio, 30 seconds and taste and adjust to your liking. In general, dark roasts I found to be 18.5g dose, lighter roasts 20g dose.
Thank you, great video. I’ve been using a 10 sec pre-infusion but getting inconsistent results with light roasts. I’m reluctant to go for the slayer mod so will give this a try. 2 questions if you don’t mind, first how does this impact your work flow? I also start my day with a flat white but steam and extract at the same time, this method will prevent that. Secondly I love light roasts but tend to prefer washed rather than natural when making milk based drinks, I’m not a fan of the fermented notes I get. Do you find this method brightens and cleans up the taste of naturals? I have a Niche Zero which is also has a conical burr set (I think maybe a bit smaller than your Weber?) so that may be a contributing factor.
@@GadgetsGearCoffee I tried it on a couple of different beans and I’m getting better sweeter results with actually minimal impact on workflow. Thanks for the tip!
What basket are you using? My IMS 18g is driving me crazy cause of the fancy nano, non-stick coating my puck always ends up stuck to the shower screen even when I drop my dose to 16g with a deeper tamp. Seeing your puck stay nice and intact in the portafilter, especially after the long pre-infusion really makes me want to switch my IMS. Oh, and as a bonus, it's not magnetic which I also discovered after buying it.
using the stock BDB basket! I considered upgrading but after reading through many posts on forums, seems there was no actual improvement and based on your comment, glad I didn't
@@GadgetsGearCoffee Can't use stock cause of my OCD for leaving accessories untouched for potential resell, will probably try VST then haha. Oh, and I'm sure plenty of people already told you, but have you tried the Minor Figures oat milk for your flat whites? It's sweet (so you could stop using you know what) and brings out the florals of the coffee really nicely which is something I can't say about Oatly or Mylk for example.
@@arianhoxha6413 I tried literally every single kind of non dairy milk but ultimately didn't like how it would alter the flavor a bit tho technically the flavor is being altered now with maple syrup and cow's milk but I like how it tastes. I might give it a go again
My setup is BDB with a C40 hand grinder. I really JUST started using a long pre-infusion workflow...about 20 seconds, with about a 18g in to 37g out recipe. The grind is def finer for this method which I think is exposing the limitations of my grinder. Some shots are bonkers, others...not so much. There's so many things to noodle, and I find it hard to isolate what factors are impacting my flavor. Temp? pre-infusion pressure? Profile? Duration?
it may be the grinder like you said, I'm not too familiar with the C40, I know some grinders are made to be espresso forward in terms of the burr and the adjustability between steps for example, but I also don't know what level of experience you're at with espresso, keep trying! Take notes and adjust.
I like how influencers are willing to break the rules and experiment. The coffee world is always evolving it seems. I just may give that Ethiopian coffee a try! Great video by the way, I like the analytical approach. You seem like a tinker'er of things. I wonder what you'd discover on different machines like a lever or De1?
so strange to be called an "influencer", I just see myself as someone who is on the internet trying things out. I wonder too, I don't have access to any it those machines
I wonder how I can achieve these results with my ECM Mechanica V Slim (E61). I've really shied away from light roasts. Do I really want a coffee that's fruity? Most of my life (before I discovered espresso) I drank dark roast from a french press. I worry about coffee that has taste, but no body. Thoughts or comments?
You gotta try it again. It took drinking light roasts a few times to like it and now I love it. And they're not all the same tasting or all super punchy fruit
slayer mod is full pressure, low flow, it will affect the pressure reading though but not the pressure of the water. It's odd and took me a while to understand
would that/is there a BDB version though? BDB isn't an E61 group head. They have their own thing. I also never upgraded the basket because I had once read: I just upgraded to the BDB and most of the consensus on Espresso Afficianados is that the Breville stock baskets are very good. There are cases where the higher flow VST or IMS baskets are useful, but most will tell you there isn’t a reason to upgrade other than curiosity (legitimate reason tho!).
@@GadgetsGearCoffee when I got my BDB I immediately switched out the baskets just because of past experience and the quality of the holes and corner curvature. It’s not expensive so it wasn’t a problem. But the differences in just the VST and IMS are clear and those are two mainly used baskets. I have now come to favor the forgiving nature of the VST lately for light roasts.
@@dirkl216 I do a long manual pre infusion for light roasts that make it more forgiving too, made a video on my channel about this. It's cool to see different ways it works for different people
I suggest doing lower pressure shots in general for all coffee. If you dont want to mod the OPV then just adjust preinfusion (PI) time to a higher number and PI pump pressure to 68-72% and do a full PI shot. Try 6/7/8 bar shots and see what works best for your coffee
you are really off with the names of the espressos....ristretto is a 1:1 ratio (dose: yield) example if you use 18 grams for ristretto you should have 18 grams. extraction time is about 17 seconds. Flatt white is made with 2 shots of espresso( 1:2 ratio) and about 4 oz of milk. Get your staff straight ...just bla bla bla bla
from what I've read/seen, there is a lot of debates on ratios and quantities for both ristretto and flat white. Also, if you literally google ristretto shot, the first thing that comes up is: "The ristretto shot is also known as a restricted shot, and typically features a brew ratio between 1:1 and 1:1.5. A traditional espresso is typically 1:2-1:2.5 and a lungo, or long shot, is usually about 1:3." Flat whites are also about 4oz, across the board.
Nothings seems to be very clear on this. Results seems to vary across area as well? Like North American countries vs European countries have different definitions of these terms?
Want even more control with flow profile? You can do a reversible hack on your Breville Dual Boiler! ruclips.net/video/kc0Y9MZO2sE/видео.html
BDB owner here...this was awesome. I'll try it. Your enthusiasm and joy is so good to watch. Thanks a lot!
if you try it feel free to report back how it was!
@@GadgetsGearCoffee Tried Method 2..the long-hold of the Manual button. Didn't work actually. Even with the Manual button held down, after 7 seconds the pre-infusion ends and it ramps up to full pressure. Will try Method 1 next...
@@solebrother9620 that's odd, if it's the 920XL I don't know what to say, maybe your machine has a glitch?
@@GadgetsGearCoffee Tried again. Confirmed, now works! No idea what I did wrong last time. Thanks a lot!
So, I'm gonna try to answer your question about low pressure pre infusion vs slayer mod:
But first, congrats on your videos, I've watched them more than once. I had a La Pavoni, but I hope to soon be able to buy a BDB. Meanwhile, I watch BDB videos to taper the upgradeitis, and yours is the best on RUclips!
The slayer mod is useful throughout the shot: you can (1) manipulate the flavor and texture by changing the flow profile (like a londinium style, where you taper the pressure at the second half or so of the shot, to keep the coffee flow constant as the puck degrades and it's resistance gets lower), or by doing slow ramp ups and downs of pressure, etc. This can be better controlled by coupling the machine with a scale that shows live liquid flow. and (2) salvage shots that would flow too quickly in a flat pressure profile, and otherwise be underextracted.
The low pressure pre infusion is useful because the lower flow of water can allow for the puck to expand slowly and in a more uniform way, thus lowering the chance of channels when the full flow of water is happening. If the puck were exposed to this higher flow from the beginning, the puck expansion would be different, and less uniform.
Lance Hedrick has a nice video about it! It is the one where he talks about whether this is te end game machine!
Also, Kyle Rowsell has a video on shot profiles!
Maybe it's the coffees that I have these days but they seem less finicky OR I'm less finicky or a combination of both. I still track and tweak my coffees but once I'm quite dialled in with my KEY (which is also very consistent), if I like the flavour in the cup and I'm content enough, I don't infinitely keep tweaking to make it marginally better.
"Meanwhile, I watch BDB videos to taper the upgradeitis, and yours is the best on RUclips!"
1. watching videos will only ENHANCE the upgradeitis haha
2. Thank you for the kind words! Comments like these keep me going.
I have owned BDB for the last 5 years.. this manual pre-infusion 'trick' is new to me.. thanks!
I thought I was extracting well - until I tried your method this morning. At least twice as good. Thanks so much
Very interesting video - traveling right now but will be trying this when reunited with my BDB!
Great video! Another thing I'd say for light roasts is to pull them hotter. In the video she has it set to 202F, and some beans benefit from even higher temperatures.
True! Right after video release I had put it up to the max of the BDB 205f
Great timing! I started doing just this on my BBE literally yesterday (on BBE you hold any shot button for as long as you want to pre-infuse)! I see first drops and let go of the button around 11-12 second mark. Had the same observation that I need to grind finer than with standard preinfusion. Light roast shots pulled this way come out really nice! Smooth, no harshness, sweet; still quite bright/acidic but not overpoweringly, lemony acidic.
Regardless, still have to pull pretty long shots though to really tame that acidity - 18in/42 out or more
oh that's cool, didn't realize you could do that on the BBE as well!
super good looking, intelligent and obviously up on her coffee game. Whats not to love! Im a fan!
Wish I had found this video sooner. I’ve been struggling to pull a shot with what I now know is a light roast. Figured longer pre-infusion might help. Looks like I didn’t let it go long enough.
I had the pre-infusion set to 25 seconds. Still didn’t make it to first drip. I’ll give your manual trick a try this afternoon.
How did it go? coffee is a finicky thing and every bean and batch tends to be different, so you have to constantly tweak and go back to the basics. If even at 25s pre-infusion you didn't get first drips and it looks like the it's choking, go coarser, slightly more than you think, then work you way back to fine to get the right extraction!
Hi we love your knowledge of coffee. We are new owners of the dual boiler. Do you have a video for beginners please? We have had 2 manual sunbeam cafe series for the past 15 years so this is a bit more technical for us. Thank you :-)
I had seen it before, but neither understood nor assimilated. After three months of using this machine, I come back to your video, and I tested the finger pressed on the button: 10 seconds of pre-infusion, then let the pressure rise, between 7 bars and 9 bars (less or finer grinding) the coffee is better at 7 bars. Thank you for your valuable experiences and advice 🙏👍✨💕
Je l'avais vu auparavant, mais ni compris ni assimilé. Après trois mois d'utilisation de cette machine, je reviens sur votre vidéo, et j'ai testé le doigt appuyé sur le bouton : 10 secondes de pré-infusion, puis laisser la pression monter, entre 7 bars et 9 bars (mouture moins ou plus fine) le café est meilleur à 7 bars. Merci pour vos précieux expériences et conseils.
super! contente ça a marché. J'ai plein d'autres vidéos sur le BDB sur mon channel qui pourraient t'aider. Un jour p-e tu pourras essayer le slayer mod
thank you for the vid, helpful
Thanks Jess. Helpful video
Nice art by the way!
Low flow is talking about output into the cup, and pressure is relating to the resistance the water has meeting the puck. You can have low pressure and high flow if your grind is coarse (turbo shots) but you have a low pressure low flow when your grind is dialed in to creating resistance
Damn it's 10pm and I'm inspired to make another cup 😬. This may be the video that pushes me toward a flat burr grinder. Currently have the and Sette 270. Feel the Sette has had it's day 🤔
I went from Sette 270 to the KEY, I did a whole review on that and there is a comparison between the Sette 270 VS KEY coming up this week as well!
If you're into light roasts, which I assume you are, then yes a flat burr or even the KEY, is something to look into. I've never had or played with a flat burr yet (though a friend has a Specialista Mignon and at some point we might have a coffee geek day together) to see.
@Jess Cuz can't wait to see it, will definitely help steer me to my next grinder 👌🏻. Leaning towards a flat burr but who knows, maybe ill end up with both 😬. Damn the rabbit hole. Either way, currently on the BDB i run a max time pre infusion at about 80 percent pressure. Effectively an 80 percent pressure shot. Its good.
Today i went with your skills and reduced the pressure to minimum, made the grind finer then let it go after pre infusion once the first drops came. Was super nice 👌🏻
What I've been doing for years is, pressing the manual button for 8 or 10 seconds, let the pack sit for 2 minutes in the group head, and then doing the regular 20 or so seconds extraction, it's been working out for me fine!
BDB owner - with slayer mod. Would say you're 80% there with this approach. What you're missing is the ability to pressure profile post pre-infusion, which can be a lot of fun. The actual mod pretty simple, the hardest part might just be opening the machine up xD
It's actually already opened up :p cuz I had to adjust the OPV. If it's around 80% of a slayer mod, I may not bother with it. But who knows where I'll be... Would you say it affects the puck much more with the slayer mod? And how?
@@GadgetsGearCoffee as the shot progresses you can reduce the pressure (to give a pseudo lever effect) which will reduce puck erosion. Shots can taste sweeter as you are more in control of extraction rate. Also the mod is useful for saving shots when you don’t grind fine enough 😁
But honestly most days I do a very low pressure 25 second preinfusion and just let it do it’s thing.
Do you count your pre infusion time in your shot time or just start timming as soon as coffee hits your cup
@@anthonybotonis5841 I wait until the drops hit the cup to start the timer.
@@skompieso ur doing 25 sec pre-infusion + 30 seconds after the first drop? (55s total?)
Hey I have the barista dual sage I can’t get any pressure at all with my new machine. What can I do
gonna try this on my BDB - seems easy enough. assuming with no actual timings to go by just need to go by taste
Feel free to come back and let us know how it went!
@@GadgetsGearCoffee went really well! Shot was super sweet! Probably didn’t even go fine enough as had some coffee coming out around 15s-20s mark
@@joelraivid5581 amazing!! :) that was easy enough, it's only going to get better
@@GadgetsGearCoffee looking forward, thanks for the tips
Jess - once you have first drops and let go of manual how long should the shot take to reach target weight? Should it be a quick shot or doesn’t matter?
Have you tried doing the “slayer style” shot without the mod? Basically turn the hot water slightly open which diverts water from the group head to the hot water tap and limits the flow into the puck (mine can get as low as about 2ml per second). Usually I just set my pre infusion pressure to 55% then hold the manual button down, once I hit 3 bar I open the dial slightly to hold it at 3 bar until I’m happy with my saturation (I usually wait until there is 10% extracted in the cup which is 3-4g). I then release the manual button and close the dial allowing it to reach 9 bars. I then do a level style finish by slowly opening the dial to slowly bring the pressure down until I’m done.
So usually goes for a 2:1 ratio with 40g out:
0-3 bar until drops form
Hold 3 bar until 3-4g in the cup
Allow it to get to 9 bar
Once around 20-25g slowly open valve and bring pressure down to 5-6 bar until 40g out
Only 2 issues with this compared to the proper mod is that a) you waste water and b) if you open the dial too much it diverts all the water from the group to the hot water. There is only a small window to open but it’s more than enough to play around with the flow.
I've heard of that mod and hadn't tried it cuz of the water waste but I suppose I could give it a go a few times to see if slayer mod would be worth it. I think slayer mod would be helpful for super light roasts, which I've had a few times. Most of the time it's a med light to light and this has been working out. The only diff with the water valve and slayer mod seems to be the slower ramp up to 9 and tapering down to 5-6 bar at the end but the puck erosion at the end doesn't seem to be an issue for me.
@@GadgetsGearCoffee I find it fun to play around with flow profiling and usually use this for most light to med roasts. Let me know if you notice a difference, I find it adds an extra boost to flavour/intensity in the cup
@@GadgetsGearCoffee you can catch the water in a cup and use it for something else or put the water back into the water tank. Also since you only open the hot water spigot a little to control the flow at the grouphead, not a lot of water comes out. For two shots in the morning with this mod, I'm only using around 20ml of extra water, which is literally a drop in the bucket.
To do this mod, you need to open up the top and just adjust the position of the switch at the hot water knob. Very easy to do and easily reversible, also, no need to touch the water pipes.
I've been using the mod mainly to lower the pressure at the end of the extraction of the medium roast coffee. The bitterness of the extracted espresso has reduced a lot.
thanks for this!! going to try this forsure
come back with your findings! I just tried dark roast beans with the 20 sec pre infusion, the full blast pressure was low something like 5 and the shot was ugly and the whole thing was 29 seconds but it was still delicious surprisingly! I guess it was sort of like a turbo shot.
@@GadgetsGearCoffee thanks for the reply! I'll try both dark and light roasts as well. Ill report back and might even have some questions for you haha. Thanks again!
Thanks for this great video! I got better shots with this „mod“/hack. Did/do you also have stuck puck? I got stuck puck frequently especially when brewing light roast coffee. It seems to be more frequent using this „mod“/hack. I use IMS baskets since the very beginning. Any clues?
Never have. Perhaps you're over dosing, you need about 2mm of space before brewing
Hello. Great technique after trying this for weeks. Can you tell what the pre infusion pressure (%) is? Mine is between 55 and 60
I believe I left it at the default which I can't recall now, it was either 60 or 70
Has any1 tried this with a dark roast and is it any good. Btw love your content got a bdb and a niche grinder. I do love full bodied darker roasts and set my bdb to 60% for 8 sec. I will give this a go but with a darker roast and see how it turns out. Keep up the great work👍
I think it could help a little but if you're not struggling with dark roasts and usually, it's just easier to extract I think the long pre infusion won't help that much. If anything I find you may have a lower pressure overall but still have good taste so it might be confusing if you rely on the pressure but play around and report back for other dark roast lovers ♥ and also, thanks for being a viewer 😊
Hey, great video. I have a barista pro paired with a niche and now wondering if the upgrade to a bdb is worth it… any advice would be much appreciated. 🙏🏽
Don't have a barista pro but definitely you'll get better coffee extraction with BDB + good grinder
I have found where you can get O RINGS
For the pre-infusion, what pressure percentage do you use?
I think I kept the 60 default
not sure if I got it. you hold the button then let it go after the first drops so it reaches the full pressure? but at the end how come you were still pressing the button? 🤔 What I saw people doing was setting the pre infusion to 60'' then setting the pump pressure(pp) to ,for example 71 ,so the machine would never reach the 9 bar during the extraction.
aha so I wrote the wrong thing on the video I think that's where the confusion is. While it's extracting my finger is on the MANUAL button but NOT PRESSING, the MANUAL button.
"To manually control the low pressure pre-infusion duration, press and hold the MANUAL button. When the required pre-infusion duration is met, release button to begin full pump pressure. Press MANUAL button again to stop extraction."
@@GadgetsGearCoffee Got it! Thank you so much ❤️
New BDB owner and frustrated on getting good results on light roasted bean! Thanks for this input!
One question though; will this method still works if using puckscreen?
Ya but try it without you may not need it
Hi Jess.
Got a follow up question on grind size. When u said we can "grind finer", how fine should we grind?
I am using niche grinder and my usual grind size was 20. Then using this hack, I tried using grind size 18, even 15, and I got total time about the same (50s-ish). I was wondering if I can push even more.
I guess my question is; when u brew, u have this golden ratio; 1:2 in 25-30s. Then u get which grind size u should have.
How about when using this hack?
How fine should u go?
Thanks for inspiring us!
Have you done the Pump Mod or Upgraded the shower head and basket to ima precision ones?
is pump mod the slayer mod or is that changing an actual part like the pump? I haven't changed the shower head or the basket, I had read mixed reviews about the shower head not always fitting well and for the basket I had read a lot of people mentioning it made no visible difference so I hadn't bothered
@@GadgetsGearCoffee I mean changing the Pump. Its supposed to quieten the machine down some and increase pressure stability. I was thinkig about doing the basket/showerhead Swap since I found a bundle With ims precision parts and a bottomless Portafilter.
I tried your method Yesterday and it improved my flat white markedly still kind of rough/bitter in the aftertaste though. Might need to grind finer still.
@@alexanderz8052 ah yes the actual pump to the brass one? I thought about it but it seemed like more work than necessary and the sound isn't bad I only make 1-2 coffees a day I can manage with the noise
@@alexanderz8052 where is this bundle you found?
Hi jeeeeeess!!! Tnx for this video!! Short question: how could I set the pressure to reach 7 and not 9 bars during full pressure extraction phase? I use manual preinfusion and at about 20 secs I start seeing first drops, but with my light roast coffees as soon as the pressure jumps to 9 bars, espresso loses body and structure… I would like to extract at 7 bars but don’t know how to set up the pump pressure. Do you think that slayer mod is mandatory to achieve this??? Thanks a lot again!! 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Hi! Technically you could open it up and adjust OPV (pressure) but slayer mod (water flow but will affect pressure at the puck) is also a possibility
@@GadgetsGearCoffee i think I’ll go for the slayer mod… easy and working 😉😊
Slayer mod: done ✅
Now I have to study new recipes!!!!
Do you stop the shot at say 23 seconds? I left the manual button on after a 30 second preinfusion and wound up with a huge coffee.
You pre-infuse as long as necessary, then let it run and then stop the shot once you've gotten the yield you want for the ratio you want (given it's dialed in)
Hey Jess, great video! Could you tell me where you got your portafilter? I find the one supplied feels cheap.
it's in the description :) the review of my bottomless portafilter is ruclips.net/video/UDDvEIig5zE/видео.html
I did not realize you Said initially that you're pressong the pre-infusion for Like 20 Seconds. Its about 12 for me right now. Guess I'll be going even finer on the grounds then.
It always depends on the coffee though and at the end of the day, if it tastes good then stick with the 12 sec
Great video. I've got the BDB and tried this on my finest grind setting. Dripping starts early, about 10 seconds in (20g stock basket), I release the button around 2ps and the infusion is super super fast. Do you have any experience with Baratza 270i? I'm wondering if this grinder isn't fine enough. ideas?
I have a review of the Sette 270 (as well as the 270 vs WW Key) so yes I do have experience. It can grind fine enough, sometimes grinding too fine can do some weird things so if anything go coarser and adjust and then go finer incrementally. If you have a dark roast and are doing this long pre-infusion, I think it might give a low pressure for the rest and come out super fast.
Nice video and learning a lot to brew my coffee with light roast bean. Can you share the grinder size setting if ur Barazta sette 270 for light roast bean. Thx
there is no point in sharing grinder settings ever between grinders because every single grinder is always going to have slight variations, so I can't really :\ I also don't have it anymore I sold it, there are way too many variables in beans themselves, roast, density, batches then the grinders themselves even in the same model
@@GadgetsGearCoffee I just tried it. The first drop of coffee came out around 14s but the pressure of my dual boiler didn’t go up to 7-9 bars but merely reached 5 bars. Anything went wrong? Did I grinder the coffee too fine?
@@desmondchan6054 take note and try again, either you're grinding too fine, grinding too coarse, tamping isn't good, it's going to be a lot of studying up and figuring it out
@@GadgetsGearCoffee I try this morning with coarser grinder. The result was the other way around (1st drop at 12s with lower final pressure - ~3bars). It means not enough “blockage” for the pressure to go up. I will make it again after work today. 😂 hope it could finally make it.
@@GadgetsGearCoffee in fact the taste of light roasts is interesting. Never have that kinda fruit favours in a coffee b4. Worth to keep trying for a balanced favour cup of coffee that I like.
Jess, is this method more like filter coffee than espresso? It looks like the pre infusion part of the shot was 80% of the yield?
def tastes like espresso
Ordered a dual boiler which should be here in June and may try the slayer mod but will play with pre-infusion first too. I keep coming back to Square Mile’s SweetShop which switches but is currently Kenyan and Peruvian. It is a blend of natural and washed. I never thought I’d like a coffee like this, it tasted a wee bit funky at first, but I’m hooked and keep coming back to it. Looking for natural/washed combos that are closer to the Sonoran desert. Hate to ship coffee around the world. I have tried everything from Mostra to Vibrant to Onyx to Tony’s to Hatch. Hatch has some of my all time faves too. Their Gamma and Blackout are my chocolate choice faves. Curious what your faves are.
I try to stay local but someone gave me some international coffee from Japan (Apollon's gold) which is suppppper light and I really liked it and now.. my local stuff isn't doing it for me unfortunately so my favourite local roaster isn't really my favourite anymore and I'm looking for new stuff, trying not to go international but at least still keep it national
been getting disappointed by roaster consistency as well - same bean (perhaps not same batch tho) and roasted uneven or darker than a previous time I purchased it - the more experience and the further I go into this journey, the more picky I get.. it's like the negative of gaining knowledge
@@GadgetsGearCoffee yeah SweetShop has never been as good as the first time. I’m searching for something funky like the first time. It was sweet and sour at the same time. Subsequent batches are good but never as funky as that first time. And once you have tasted that “god shot” you are forever jaded. Nothing is quite as good. Plus I’m on a Bambino until my BDB arrives. My Barista Touch’s grinder started acting up so I had to return it. Trying to pull a good shot on a smaller machine is so much harder. Flow is higher it seems and I think it’s set up for dual wall portafilter primarily so I’m wresting with that too. Wasted a lot of good beans this week. 🤪
I wonder why this long infusion time works also for a Brazilian medium roast?
New subscriber here! Love your content by the way. So I unboxed my duel boiler and smart grinder and am struggling with my shots. I’m using setting 12 on grinder and 18g of coffee. Am I close? Lol
Hate to break it to you but giving grind settings, even with the same grinder, is useless information since that changes from unique grinder to grinder even of the same brand and model. Try to go by coffee recipe if the roaster have it or start with the classic 1:2 ratio, 30 seconds and taste and adjust to your liking.
In general, dark roasts I found to be 18.5g dose, lighter roasts 20g dose.
Ugh okay I’ll keep grinding away! 😂 I think I need a better tamper as well. Thank you for the quick response Jess!😉
gonna put this right here 👀 ruclips.net/video/D_ohKWnd5vI/видео.html
Did you try this? how did it go?
The video was unclear for "let go of Manuel button" can you clarify when you press and let go of the button? Thank!
Thank you, great video. I’ve been using a 10 sec pre-infusion but getting inconsistent results with light roasts. I’m reluctant to go for the slayer mod so will give this a try. 2 questions if you don’t mind, first how does this impact your work flow? I also start my day with a flat white but steam and extract at the same time, this method will prevent that. Secondly I love light roasts but tend to prefer washed rather than natural when making milk based drinks, I’m not a fan of the fermented notes I get. Do you find this method brightens and cleans up the taste of naturals? I have a Niche Zero which is also has a conical burr set (I think maybe a bit smaller than your Weber?) so that may be a contributing factor.
how about you try it out and report back?
doesn't change workflow the much, I just have to be more focused when making my coffee
@@GadgetsGearCoffee I tried it on a couple of different beans and I’m getting better sweeter results with actually minimal impact on workflow. Thanks for the tip!
Does this work well for medium roasts?
"medium" is quote subjective. Try it! Experiment and let us know :)
Not sure if I missed it or was not mentioned: what pre infusion pressure setting do you usually use for such shots?
I left it at the default
Mind asking just got my first bdb how many grams of coffee I need? In portafilter? Some people say 20 grams??
I'm working on a RUclips shorts I'll release shortly since I've been getting this question quite a bit :)
just posted a short ruclips.net/user/shorts2WPMGiccdzs
What basket are you using? My IMS 18g is driving me crazy cause of the fancy nano, non-stick coating my puck always ends up stuck to the shower screen even when I drop my dose to 16g with a deeper tamp. Seeing your puck stay nice and intact in the portafilter, especially after the long pre-infusion really makes me want to switch my IMS. Oh, and as a bonus, it's not magnetic which I also discovered after buying it.
using the stock BDB basket! I considered upgrading but after reading through many posts on forums, seems there was no actual improvement and based on your comment, glad I didn't
@@GadgetsGearCoffee Can't use stock cause of my OCD for leaving accessories untouched for potential resell, will probably try VST then haha. Oh, and I'm sure plenty of people already told you, but have you tried the Minor Figures oat milk for your flat whites? It's sweet (so you could stop using you know what) and brings out the florals of the coffee really nicely which is something I can't say about Oatly or Mylk for example.
@@arianhoxha6413 I tried literally every single kind of non dairy milk but ultimately didn't like how it would alter the flavor a bit tho technically the flavor is being altered now with maple syrup and cow's milk but I like how it tastes. I might give it a go again
My setup is BDB with a C40 hand grinder. I really JUST started using a long pre-infusion workflow...about 20 seconds, with about a 18g in to 37g out recipe. The grind is def finer for this method which I think is exposing the limitations of my grinder. Some shots are bonkers, others...not so much. There's so many things to noodle, and I find it hard to isolate what factors are impacting my flavor. Temp? pre-infusion pressure? Profile? Duration?
it may be the grinder like you said, I'm not too familiar with the C40, I know some grinders are made to be espresso forward in terms of the burr and the adjustability between steps for example, but I also don't know what level of experience you're at with espresso, keep trying! Take notes and adjust.
I like how influencers are willing to break the rules and experiment. The coffee world is always evolving it seems. I just may give that Ethiopian coffee a try! Great video by the way, I like the analytical approach. You seem like a tinker'er of things. I wonder what you'd discover on different machines like a lever or De1?
so strange to be called an "influencer", I just see myself as someone who is on the internet trying things out.
I wonder too, I don't have access to any it those machines
I wonder how I can achieve these results with my ECM Mechanica V Slim (E61). I've really shied away from light roasts. Do I really want a coffee that's fruity? Most of my life (before I discovered espresso) I drank dark roast from a french press. I worry about coffee that has taste, but no body. Thoughts or comments?
You gotta try it again. It took drinking light roasts a few times to like it and now I love it. And they're not all the same tasting or all super punchy fruit
Slayer mod allows lower pressure, not full pressure.
slayer mod is full pressure, low flow, it will affect the pressure reading though but not the pressure of the water. It's odd and took me a while to understand
IMS Super fine 58mm will give better extraction for light roasted coffee.
would that/is there a BDB version though? BDB isn't an E61 group head. They have their own thing. I also never upgraded the basket because I had once read: I just upgraded to the BDB and most of the consensus on Espresso Afficianados is that the Breville stock baskets are very good. There are cases where the higher flow VST or IMS baskets are useful, but most will tell you there isn’t a reason to upgrade other than curiosity (legitimate reason tho!).
@@GadgetsGearCoffee when I got my BDB I immediately switched out the baskets just because of past experience and the quality of the holes and corner curvature. It’s not expensive so it wasn’t a problem. But the differences in just the VST and IMS are clear and those are two mainly used baskets. I have now come to favor the forgiving nature of the VST lately for light roasts.
@@dirkl216 I do a long manual pre infusion for light roasts that make it more forgiving too, made a video on my channel about this. It's cool to see different ways it works for different people
I suggest doing lower pressure shots in general for all coffee. If you dont want to mod the OPV then just adjust preinfusion (PI) time to a higher number and PI pump pressure to 68-72% and do a full PI shot.
Try 6/7/8 bar shots and see what works best for your coffee
Why not lower than 68%? I've put it to the lowest on 55%.
you are really off with the names of the espressos....ristretto is a 1:1 ratio (dose: yield) example if you use 18 grams for ristretto you should have 18 grams. extraction time is about 17 seconds. Flatt white is made with 2 shots of espresso( 1:2 ratio) and about 4 oz of milk. Get your staff straight ...just bla bla bla bla
from what I've read/seen, there is a lot of debates on ratios and quantities for both ristretto and flat white. Also, if you literally google ristretto shot, the first thing that comes up is: "The ristretto shot is also known as a restricted shot, and typically features a brew ratio between 1:1 and 1:1.5. A traditional espresso is typically 1:2-1:2.5 and a lungo, or long shot, is usually about 1:3."
Flat whites are also about 4oz, across the board.
Nothings seems to be very clear on this. Results seems to vary across area as well? Like North American countries vs European countries have different definitions of these terms?
All good jesse a ristretto is anything between a 1:1 to a 1:5 so it is a ristretto👍