They're both in the wrong. I'm not picking any side.. I know what both sides are capable of and I'm just interested in seeing how everyone defends their "team"...
I think there's an important detail in this episode When Viserys was suggested a C-section, he asked "can the child survive?" When Daemon is asked the same, he asks "will the mother survive?"
While it was nice of Daemon to not be prioritizing the mother over the child, I thought it was a bit hardcore for the mom to allow the baby to fry with her. She might know she's gone for sure, but the baby could be saved. Daemon, I assume, isnt that big on kids anyway, and wouldnt have stood in ehr way
Daemon married Laena over politics and to get away from Rhaenrya and his brother. The show makes it clear and Daemon was miserable without his Targ family. Asking if the mother will survive would be a way out. That's just Daemon. And, Raenys was suspicious about Laena's death. Daemon did not show any emotion but shock and admiration. The death of Viserys and his child with Rhaenrya brought him to his knees. Daemon had a fleet of ships, 2 childten to use as heirs, and dragons. That is what he wanted from that union. All to help..Rhaenyra.
I like that Alt Shift never directly spoils the show for the non-readers, but he drops little bits of wording that serve as winks for us who have have read the books.
I mean he did spoil that Helaena's prophecy will come true. Sure he censored what she said, but anyone who remembers what she said would have gotten spoiled.
It's kind of heartbreaking to watching the kids interact because they're... doing kid stuff. Aegon clearly likes his nephews. Their parents have failed them
Hard to tell. Aegon seems like a typical first royal spoiled child. Not sure if he likes his nephews or just likes that he is older and can manipulate them. The teasing of his own brother is pretty normal for siblings but definitely bad parenting for Alicent to say he can bully Aemond at home. The message should be no bullying obviously. It's interesting Rhaeneras kids know of the rumors about them and flat out ask their mom about it.
@@clemenIemon has nothing to do with their genes, they mostly have quirky personalities and Aemond being obsessed with being a dragon rider while seeing his nephews and brother have dragons is not strange at all
@@clemenIemon how much hatred you incest loving Daemyra shippers are holding for fictional complex characters, lol? A child is weird because of their mothers gene?🤦
@@justt1984 I just realized I was rewatching an old video I was like there's no way this man just described a drunken rapist as a quirky dude, but I get it hadnt happened yet lmao
Yup, hypocrisy at its finest. It's a huge theme. The standard of honor she imposes on others becomes suspiciously lenient when applied to herself or anyone that furthers her personal interest. She is corrupt already and it will only get worse. On the flip side, Rhanerya has been quite foolish. It would've been prudent to have at least 1 legitimate child, even if she had to go full Margarey Tyrell and bring in help to get her husband going. Really curious where this goes
@@onTimeAlways404 I believe both are shit anyway, Rhanerya is getting pass cuz of good acting cuz her job would be to gain people's favour as women cannot be "head of the state" instead of that affair. I believe Alicient is more "moral" in medieval times.
And wants her rapist son to ascend the throne, has a disgusting session of grossness with Larys and never punishes larys for killing his own family. Alicent doesn't think Rhaenyra would be fit to rule but her son, who rapes any woman who's not giving him consent would be fit to rule. Sure, there's not been Aegon the rapist.
@Bottlife 240 At least the Targaryens know they're at war with one another. Larys sets his house on fire killing his whole family seemingly out of nowhere - that's some psycho shit
I actually think Rhaenyra choosing to take Joffrey to Alicent herself rather than passing him to a servant was a display of strength, as well showing that she has become paranoid about Alicent and her intent towards her children (just as Alicent has of her).
I'm sure George thought naming extremely minor historical figures after Muppets (Elmo, Kermit, Oscar) would just get lost in the endless amounts of history, but it'd be hilarious if they had to introduce the characters now that they're expanding on Fire and Blood.
Vhagar and Caraxes having their first "Dance" in this episode, just flying and having a great time together is so poetic and ironic at it's very essence.
I think its really telling that a few episodes ago Viserys mentioned that he's not even the one making the minatures himself, he just tells the stonemasons what to make for him. He really needs help to do everything, even his hobbies.
I love the perspective you have in your analysis. The Dragons ‘dancing together ‘was so poetic and lovely. Pregnant Leana, knowing she will lose her life and baby and wanting to go out on her own terms and commanding Vhagar to burn her and the hesitance was so powerful and heartbreaking to watch. The pleading was the thing that got to Vhagar
In the history tome, they said Leana, delirious from dying to child birth, went out to ride Vhagar one last time cause she wanted to die as a dragon rider but then fell off her dragon. Idk, I think this might've been a better way for her to go, but obviously wouldn't have been so dramatic. Suicide of herself and the baby makes her seem a bit selfish. Not saying it's a bad change at all cause it was very interesting to see Vhagar's reaction, but I think the alternative route might've been a better overall for her character arc.
Yeah i think it's been established that Dragons are near if not equal in intellect as humans. So it would be like a queen asker her royal knight to kill her. I love how they are giving the dragons individual perosnalities. The dragons in GoT were largely interchangable save that Drogon was the one rode by Danerys.
@@thehumanity0 I disagree on it being selfish. Better not to suffer. She was going to die anyway, and I kinda see it like almost an assisted suicide for those that are terminally ill. The babe probably wouldn't have survived without her, and because they opted out of the c-section the child would've suffocated in the birth canal and it would've killed them both anyway. Hosting a dead babeh in you without being able to purge it is a poison.
@@thehumanity0 she fell on her dragon? Isn't it more like her falling on the stairs and daemon Carries her back to bed and she dies besides Rhaenyra and Daemon
@@lgt_jne Alt Shift X had said in another video she falls off her dragon. Idk maybe I'm remembering wrong and she was just on her way to try to ride her dragon before she died
17:54 scene reminds of the historical "Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?" ("What miserable drones and traitors have I nurtured and promoted in my household who let their lord be treated with such shameful contempt by a low-born cleric!") by king Henry II that led to the assassination of the Archbishop of Canterbury Thomas Becket. Alicent wants them dead, but retains plausible deniability. The fact that Larys is the son and the brother of those assassinated and possibly wants it even more than the monarch is a brilliant twist of the historical event, Martin is the best with these things.
I'm intrigued by Larys motivation. It seemed that his Father and Brother didn't mistreat him despite his physical condition, so his willingness to murk them shocked me. Alicent certainly showed her naivety, but I think eventually Larys will influence her much in the way that Littlefinger did Sansa. Moving from naive and smart to shrewd and calculative, except Sansa never went off the deep end, and I think Alicent will
I think we haven't seen enough of Laena to really care about her fate. That Vhagar scene would have been much more heartbreaking with more character development. It's a shame beacause the actress did really well in the few screen time she had
I feel Alicent is being eased into murdering people to achieve her goals. First protecting a murdering kingsguard, now having a straight up Kinslayer as ally. It would be a point to stop and go "am I the baddy?" and seeing that, so far, only her faction has straight up caused people to get killed. Instead she is learning to rationalize things she still feels shock and moral outrage towards.
I could see her slipping into a pattern of using Larys to dispose of obstacles from now on. She has definitely become much less Sansa-like in the 10 years since the last episode.
Yeah, Alicent says to Larys she 'didn't want anyone to die', but every action and step she takes is towards being more adversarial, destructive, and straight up playing at & pushing towards war. She's knowingly petty and spiteful, but equally foolish and ignorant to not think her actions wouldn't lead to death and chaos.
To be fair though, Rhaenyra is the one siring illegitimate heirs left and right and destabilising her already shaky claim to the throne. I can understand why Alicent is furious when she offers to marry her firstborn to her true born daughter who under the new president would be third in line. On the other hand I also understand Viserys does want to pretend that everything is as it should be not wanting to destroy his family over it. "You may know what is the right thing to be done but love stays the hand.”
I feel for Alicent a little bit when Larys basically blackmails her by including her in the guilt of his scheme, but realistically what did she expect would happen if “justice” was done and Rhaenyra’s children were publicly acknowledged as bastards? Harwin would have been killed, and maybe the kids, and maybe even Lyonel. She’s actively sewing the seeds of war in this episode while also feeling very sanctimonious about herself. A character greyer than she even realizes herself 10/10 writing
I think she is still a little naive but I def believe her when she expressed shock at the method. Also, while Larys does have dirt on Alicent kind of, she is still the queen, still a member of house hightower and I think could dispatch of larys(or attempt to) if she ever saw him as a threat
I think she would have no problem with Garwin etc. being executed after an official judgement - but this kind of underhanded backstabbing, that's too "dirty" for her. In this mediaeval culture that values honor and courage, execution and assassination are not the same - despite having the same end result.
@@Dell88music True, if she was scared enough but right now, she needs all the allies she can get and Larys has shown to be able to get things done. Larys also doesn't profess any outward ambition for himself, so is not an immediate threat to her. The show seems to be building up a moment were Alicent will try to distance herself from Larys.
Been watching your videos since my freshman year in college (2015) and even after all these years it still feels like a crime that you provide us this quality of content for free. Keep reigniting our love for fiction Alt, some of us greatly appreciate the effort.
Same here, started watching in college when Game of Thrones was huge and hear I am years later, enjoying these videos in a brand new prequel show. Crazy how time flies, I remember those GOT Sunday nights and reading reddit discussion threads but waiting most patiently for the Alt Shift X video to drop. What a ride we're in for, glad you're still here with us!
Daemon is teaching his kids Valyrian, but Rhaenyra isn’t teaching hers-they need translators for the dragonpit tenders and only learn the dragon command words in isolation
Did anyone notice the look that the midwife behind Rhaenyra made when saw the baby? As if saying, "Oh, no! Not another brown haired baby!" That's a great piece of direction that most would not even notice.
Haha, if true, that would be interesting. It's like "well, ive got good news and bad news. Good news is it's another boy...bad news...guess who he looks like"
I just realized Laenor should hate Criston more than Alicent hate Rhaenerya. Rhaenerya only lied to Alicent and got her father fired. Not that the Hightowers needed that job to eat. But Criston killed Laenor’s bf. Laenor should have planned for Criston to meet an “accident” in those 10 years. But he was there to support Rhaenerya and probobly put it aside for her
Seeing Vhagar was one of the best things I've seen, she's such a legendary dragon! Even in her old age she's still a badass and I can only imagine how she was during Visenya's time. The Dance with Caraxes was amazing! Hoping the book stuff with them happens later on.
I look forward to these breakdowns each week. Fantastic work, ASX, you're my absolute favourite ASOIAF expert! I would really love you to do more Stark/North-of-the-wall content in the future. Cheers! 💐
I think Viserys refusal to even acknowledge the allegations about his grandkid's parentage is the right move. It could have much bigger consequences that simply their claim being challenged. At best, it could lead to exile for all parties involved (Rhaenyra, her kids, Harwen, Laenor, etc). At worst, execution for some or all of them. Which could lead to armed conflict with houses Strong and Velaryon. Plus, they are still family.
At this point, it would essentially be starting a war with Corlys and Rhaenys, so yeah, he def doesn't want that. Still, all this is on Rhanerya. She should have done the deed, with her husband, popped out a couple of his kids, and everything would be fine. The fact she keeps having kids with her lover shows she does have alot of hubris, like no one is going to notice.
I don't even see how it matters too much in the short term since Rhaenyra is the next heir, not her child. She's clearly not going to crown her child the moment he comes of age, so it seems like a problem for another day, that is, if it wasn't for Alicent conniving in any way possible to take away Rhaenyra's claim.
@@thehumanity0 If you don’t see the relevance and how “it matters” your either Not paying attention, willfully ignorant or slow witted! It’s literally a ticking time b o m b set to go off. Im telling you her dad is covering her and ppl at court aren’t fools while he’s there she’s got a safeguard.But the MOMENT he’s gone it’s a rap! Mark my words!
@@thehumanity0 Rhaenyra's heirs potentially being illegitimate does make a huge difference. Also, it's the fact that Rhaenrya is committing treason by having her affair and birthing bastards instead of legitimate heirs (fair or unfair, that's how her actions would be viewed). So that part does affect the standing of Rhaenrya's own claim.
@@jayclearmen411 Wow. I'm happy to debate the series with you, but calling people slow witted over discussion about theory is really something. Also, maybe don't spoil the plot, which it sounds like what you might be doing. The heir doesn't necessarily have to be a son, even though that's the most accepted instance. Jaehaerys's succession took place over 50 years into his rule and went to his grandchildren. If Rhaenyra's children are outed as bastards, she has several options. Her husband Laenor could simply deny the allegations, she could decide to have a legitimate child with Laenor and name that child the heir, or after the King dies and she succeeds the throne, she could simply use her power to legitimize the children as true born Targaryons just as Roose Bolton did for Ramsey Snow. What matters most is that they have the Targaryon blood and they're dragon riders, dragons are power in this world and usually override politics. The heir after Rhaenyra is still being perceived outside the Red Keep as Rhaenyra and Laenor's child, so the secret is likely fine until the King dies, in which case THEN you will have discussion over the legitimacy of the next succession, ie why I said it was more or less a problem for another day. More importantly, the more current issue is if the realm will accept a woman as a ruler. It's true Rhaenyra's childrens' parentage could be used against her to de-legitimize her more, but it is only a smaller portion of a larger problem even if she can't find a solution to her kids being bastards. The realm wanting a son over a daughter as the heir is the far more immediate issue.
Yeah I missed it but this video brought up that the show all but directly says that Viserys knows the truth, but if he outs Rhaenerya, he basically goes to war with Corlys.
5:42 Despite the Greens gossiping/wishcasting that the "Strong bastards" won't be able to hatch eggs (which all 3 proceed to do), we don't have textual evidence that ANY of Alicent's children was able to hatch a cradle egg: Sunfyre hatched on Dragonstone and Aegon claimed it, Dreamfyre belonged to Rhaena Targaryen before bonding with her great-great-niece Helaena, Aemon at this point in HOTD has no dragon, and we're never told whether Tessarion the Blue Queen was hatched in the cradle or claimed (I tend to think claimed based on her size relative to her rider's age).
I’m still conflicted on Alicent’s reaction to what happens at Harrenhal. I get that she didn’t wish for the Strongs to die, much less explicitly order it, but I just can’t believe that she never expected things to get this messy. She’s been insisting that her family must win or die for years now. She’ll make Rhaenyra come to her right after childbirth and insist that Viserys punish her for infidelity. She ignores the sins of her family and allies while insisting the Blacks will be the doom of them all. And then she’s like “I didn’t want anyone to die”??? Don’t get me wrong, I love it as a character flaw, but it came across as so insincere that I didn’t believe it for a second. It feels so childish to refuse peace or compromise and then suddenly go “I didn’t want things to go like this :( “
One thing - she didn't actually ask to see Rhaenyra after the birth, I think? She just wanted to see the baby just to check if it was Laenor's. Rhaenyra decided to walk up there herself.
For a brief second, I thought he said Helaena is deeply fascinated with incest. Then my brain turned off Targaryen mode and realized he said "insects" lol
The connection is actually not as farfetched as one might think. There is a film titled "Angels and Insects" based on A.S. Byatt's novel "Morpho Eugenia" in which insects and incest play an important role.
Please don’t put down the great Kermit and Oscar Tully’s please. They’re the one ones to bring the great house of Tully the most prestige they’ll ever have.
Waldorf: "The greatest of the Tullys" sounds like being damned with faint praise. Statler: Who's the greatest Riverlander then? Waldorf: Gregor Clegane. Sure he's not from the Riverlands, but he did those people a favour. Statler: And what is that? Waldorf: Spared them from living through the final season. Both: Dohohohohoho!
The significant difference between Circei's kids and Rheanyra's kids is that the latter's are the children of the Royal heir, whereas the former are not (not Roberts kids). The strong bois are more like Gendry in that sense.
Or more like Bloodraven and Bittersteel, where if they're acknowledged as bastards but legitimized, they're still descended from the monarch and thus in line for the throne
It's incredibly sad watching the adults push a rift between their kids. Aegon is perfectly fine to live peacefully and seems to have no ill will towards Rhaenyra and the two sets of kids seem to get along besides the bullying of Aemond over not having a dragon.. it's just sad that Viserys chooses to do nothing rather than assert himself but at this point he may just be too weak
Ikr? I thought they were going to change things around from the book so the black Velaryons would make sense but it's all basically the same as the book with no explanation for why her kids are the whitest kids ever. It's so fuckin stupid. XD
@@Gooning_Chunguz Yeah and even Viserys is like "Muh White Horse had brown babies so this is also chill". That being said though I think Viserys knows its not really Laenor's kids but his love for his late wife is whats causing this willful blindness towards his daughter and everyone else is too scared to say something out loud for fear of losing their tongues.
i LOVE YOUR CONTENT. youve opened me up to so much Lore. its really given me a new perspective on Martins work and i just love it. thank you so much for all your work
I thought clubfoot's sigil was a bee as it references his 'honeyed words' which they mention in the book, he keeps playing with flowers, and his little birds are 'drones' serving the queen.
When I was first watching the episode, I thought that the fireflies Larys put on the cloaks of the prisoners were real bugs. If that were the case, maybe Larys is able to skin-change them, literally bugging his minions.
It did feel very odd for him to basically give the secret assassin's his badge. What if one of them were caught. Could just be a plot hole or could come up in the future. Larys has quickly become one of my favorite characters in the series. A mixture of Littlefinger and Jaime.
Alicent kind of takes Ned Stark's "It's wrong because it's wrong" attitude and dissects it by removing Ned's likeability (decent parent, tries to spare people). Alicent sees something she sees as wrong and seeks punishment no matter how disproportionately destructive the aftermath. She is pointing Westeros towards war over bastards just like how Ned Stark did over Joffrey (he had opportunity to at least just take charge of Joffrey as reagent). To this end, they both go to morally corrupt people to try and do their dirty work. Alicent to Larys and Ned to Littlefinger. Both backfire, one literally.
The difference between Rhaenyra’s bastard children and Cersei’s is that the claim to the throne is from Robert, not Cersei. So having kids that are not Robert’s kills any potential claim had they been discovered. But even if Rhaenyra just said ‘yeah my kids are all bastards’, because they’re incontrovertibly HER bastards, there is nothing stopping her from legitimising them. Sure, it would be scandalous, but legally they would be the legitimate heirs, bastard or no.
I think that people in real life usually "fear" for the things that they are capable of doing. I mean that Alicent fears Rhaenyra will kill her children without any hint for that (except the word of her not-at-all-saint father). But I believe that Rhaenyra would never do that to her former best friend's and father's children (siblings!)... So I mean that I think that Alicent probable would be more capable of killing Rhaenyra's children, than the opposite!
I like that this channel isn’t directly tied to HBO Max. I think it adds a barrier for Alt Shift X to critique the show without bias. I think he did something like what you’re talking about with The Expanse though.
Alicent's crusade for decency is a sham. She'd already decided her path before Rhaenyra gave birth to her first child, thanks to her father insisting Rhaenyra would murder Alicent's kids. Her green dress at the wedding declared as much. Things would have been no different if all the kids were actually for Leanor. The dance would have still happened. Rhaenyra's children are her blood. So Alicent can kick rocks because ultimatel...Rhae would not have killed her half siblings.
BTW, mixing blood into the mortar is not as outlandish as it sounds. In the middle ages, mortar was mixed with protein binders. Oxblood was such an additive, that was supposed to improve workability and was widely used. 22:49
Alicent says to Larys she 'didn't want anyone to die', but every action and step she takes is towards being more adversarial, destructive, and straight up playing at & pushing towards war. She's knowingly petty and spiteful, but equally foolish and ignorant to not think her actions wouldn't lead to death and chaos.
The Rhaenyra switch is the most noticible to me. Milly put so much of herself into the character in a good way. It would be hard for anyone to follow her performance. Emma plays her in a much more vulnerable and timid way, which makes some sense as a mother who is living such a dangerous lie. I want to give her a chance and hope she finds the dragon inside her. Maybe Daemon will be a good bad influence.
I think Emma maintains the hard headedness Milly put into the character but left behind the constant princess whining about no one listening to her. This Rhanera seems much more ready for the likely upcoming war.
Casting for this show is so spot on its unbelivable. GoT had good casting but this is on another level. Harwin Strong as brilliant for the 5 minutes he was on screen. Olivia Cook (older Alicent) stole the show - 10/10 choice. She is perfect
And some even have a bit of "family" resemblance, the best example being Rhaenyra with Aemma - at first when I saw "the older" Rhaenyra, I thought for a moment that it's the same actress. And both young and older Alicent look really similar too. Amazing job. Though I have to note that Baela and Rhaena are not all too similar both among themselves and to their parents :D
I agree the casting is very good but GoT is among the best of any series I've ever seen. I'll watch a clip of the first seasons and forgot it was so so good.
Luke is adorable!!!! All of Harwin’s sons are handsome like him, even Joffrey is a handsome baby. I love watching Aegon being so playful with Luke. Aegon seems having good temperament, i would actually root for him if his mother isn’t instilling hate in him. Btw, the Arabic thobe looks so good on Jace and Luke, in fact i admire all the fine details on the costumes worn by Rhaenyra, Harwin and their children. Brings back memories of me admiring the costumes back in GoT season 2 and 3.
I think that she doesn’t understand her predictions, it seems to be a bunch of informations in her head that she just says but doesn’t really interpret that much
The fact the Tullys here are named after Muppets makes me imagine an alternate version of Game of Thrones where all the Tullys and Stark Children are played by muppets and no one bats an eye.
HBO should really start paying you for these vids. They add to the series in a multitude of ways & help build on the viewers' understanding of world, which in turn allows fans to enjoy the series even more. Having these as extras/bonus videos on the HBO HotD page would actually be a smart move.
There were just so many things to digest in this episode, appreciate the breakdown of each individual thing that happened. These explanations just make me appreciate the depth of the story so much more as someone who has not read the books!
Your videos are really something else. It's really helpful to see the names and pictures of everything you are talking about - and it's awesome how much research you put into each video to draw comparisons between the books and GOT universe. Keep the incredible work!
One detail that I think is really important is the way Rhaenyra told Jacaerys about his parentage. She told him "You're a Targaryen, that's all that matters". That is very similar to how Ned Stark eludes revealing Jon Snow true parentage and just answers "You have my blood" the last time they say each other.
I’ve never read any of the books related to the GoT/HotD world, but I absolutely love both shows. That being said, I’m so glad I found this channel because I’m so horrible when it comes to picking up on the subtle details. It’s definitely been a huge help!
I kinda wonder if Jacaerys isn't actually Harwin's son. I'm not sure how old he is, but he looks around 9 or 10, the same amount of time it's been since the wedding. Maybe, Rhaenyra *didn't* drink the moontea given to her by Mellos, and got pregnant after having sex with Criston. What if Ser Criston is Jacaerys' real father? Also, that would make the scene where Criston encouraged Aemon to bully Jacaerys ironically tragic.
I think he is Criston's son too! She didn't drink the moon tea and the kid has much straighter hair than the second one (like Criston has straighter hair than Harwin)... I would like so much to see Criston learn the truth and trying to get atonement for betraying Rhaenyra so easily and so much! We' ll see 😁
Nah, Aemond wasn’t even born yet when Cole and Rhaenyra had sex, and Jace is younger than Aemond. It’s physically impossible for him to be Cole’s, which is likely why Cole is extra salty because he knew he was replaced by Harwin when Jace was born lol.
Loved the bit where Daemon snarked about the bastards looking suspiciously like the Commander of the Gold Cloaks (aka Harwin)…which is also his previous position. Sounded real salty about what could have been there heh.
I am so annoyed with Alicent and Otto, they both continously create and perpetuate their worst fears into existence Otto planted these fears in Alicent and now she does the same in Aegon Telling him he must be king will intiate the war and danger that they claim to want to avoid Not to mention, Alicent is plenty treacherous and dishonest when it suits her, she started the discord with Rhaenyra when she moved in on her dad after her mother died without telling her supposed best friend And if Alicent was actually concerned about the safety of her children she would jump at the offer to unite their houses in marriage and avoid conflict The truth is she gets off on the idea of "putting Rhaenyra in her place" by force, just like she was It is sick
It's easy to berate and criticise people when you're not in their position. Do you think alicent is some kind of jesus who makes all the best decisions? Of course she's treacherous, and a massive hypocrite, just like rhaenyra, that's what makes them human (and the show watchable). They're both disatisfied with womanhood in westeros, but only one of them has the means to live above those expectations, and thus Alicent developed that huge grudge that eats her from the inside. Pretty much explains why she doesn't want to marry her children to rhaenyra's, she doesn't want the "bastard blood" of Jaecerys, born out of rhaenyra's freedom, or how kristen cole would say, "spoiling", to poison Helaena's "Pureness". It's a sick mindset, but an understandable one.
So Rhaenyra just gets a pass for having THREE BASTARD CHILDREN AND LYING TO ALICENT. Also Otto isn't wrong many people don't Rhaenyra as queen and her having BASTARDs doesn't really help claim
@@eliasmagus5086 They're not bastards because Laenor gave them his family name and Corlys names Luke heir to Driftmark so it doesn't matter what people say
Thank you for the indepth analysis. It must be quite a tedious process going through all that research and editing. It's a beautiful thing. Keep going!
That’s what I didn’t get about her showing up in this episode. She’s the oldest dragon alive in the world, she helped conquer Westeros. Surely their should have been some explanation of how and why she just turned up?
@9:21 " ..while Alicent have followed the rules and done her duty." Yeah right, because having as her protector the murderer of the closest companion of one of the most powerful royal house at that time (and through Rhaenys and marriage, an extension of the reigning royal family) and dressing herself and her children in green, her house's color when in war, is not an open act of rebellion, insult and treason towards the Targaryens. And yet, people and Viserys, Rhaenyra and Laenor, have been very tolerant of her as well.
I've been so pleasantly surprised by this show, particularly given the downward trajectory the main series took imo. HotD has caught my interest from the first episode. Much like your breakdowns, thanks :D
I normally agree with your analysis but disagree a bit that Rhaenyra's bastards are equivalent to Cersei's bastards - not so much. Rhaenyra is the heir and the kids are still hers, they may be bastards but they are hers. It would be more akin to Gendry Baratheon, who had Robert's blood but was his bastard. When/If Rhaenyra becomes Queen she could legitimize them, much like Ramsay became legitimized.
I love Alt Shift's dry wit in these analyses. "It doesn't really make sense to put your logo on your super-secret spy agents" made me laugh out loud. The best thing is that the whole analysis is so spot-on, and then these funny lines sneak up on you at random. Always enjoyable when ASX gets his post-episode takes out!
Question: One thing you’ve not mentioned is that Alicent has redecorated her rooms to be rid of the erotic tapestries. They seem to be blank “decorative” panels now. What are your thoughts on this?
maybe when she was younger she was curious and excited about sex but now that we know she's miserable during sex with viserys she isn't so fond of those tapestries
Hmm, She took them down, probably, because Aegon's was masturbating non-stop in front of the tapestries. Hah! Alicent is being shown to be responsible for all of her children's vices.
@@mattm7798 exactly! Alicent is definitely being depicted as vengefully repressed. In the ASOIAF books, it is mentioned that Littlefinger gained possession of the castle tapestries. I thought it was about evidence of paternity or some other scheme… now with HotD, it seems it was to class up his brothel rooms with Targaryen artifacts.
my favorite part about the yard is it's clear at how well Harwin knows the boys. he delivers pinpoint corrections/coaching to the boys that shows that he knows not only their fighting style but also their strengths weakness on a super intimate level.
12:36 why didn't Criston's head explode when he was subjected to the same treatment he gave in the last episode? Criston didn't even have mailed fists while Harwin did.
15:51 It's interesting to think about how genuine or not Rhaenrya's peace proposal actually is (my personal suspicion is: not very). Rhaenrya knows that Alicent believes her (Rhaenrya's) children to be bastards (and presumably also knows that Alicent is correct). So Rhaenrya knows from the start that Alicent will view this proposal as trying to make her wed her daughter to a bastard - which is not just undesirable but insulting. Accepting the marriage offer would also force Alicent to publicly accept the story that Jace (and by extension Luke) is actually Laenor's son, the very story that has her so frustrated. Likewise, the offer of dragon eggs for Aemond could also be seen as rubbing salt in the wound of Aemond not yet having a dragon while all of Rhaenrya's non-newborn sons do (a big deal considering the symbolism of dragons as a mark of Targaryen legitimacy). To me, this whole thing feels like a child trying to act nice to their sibling or classmate when the parent or teacher is around, while really not meaning any of it, and weaving veiled insults under the surface of the apparent apology or peacemaking. Related to this, Rhaenrya may also be hoping that Viserys will like the idea so much that he will adopt it even over Alicent's objections. That would be an elegant way to muzzle Alicent's allegations about her and Harwin - then Alicent couldn't keep calling Rhaenrya's children bastards without also tainting her own daughter and future grandchildren.
It's actually not that comparable to Cersei and her kids, because they weren't descendants of the king. Whereas in this example, Rhaenyra's children are descended from the future monarch. It would be more like the Cersei situation if Laenor was having children with another woman and then they were passing them off as Rhaenyra's. (for instance, a situation where she gives birth, but the child is stillborn, so they replace it with another woman's child and pass it off as Rhaenyra's. So that she has heirs).
You are really the best yes! I’ve listened to so many reviews/explanations since Sunday and while a lot of the information was similarly relayed, you have and EDGE. That bit where you explained why Harrenhal was considered cursed SOLD me. New subscriber!!
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
Who's in the right, Rhaenyra or Alicent?
Get a free audiobook with an Audible trial: www.audible.com/asx
Neither. Daemon with all his faults should be heir. Imo Rhaynera and Daemon should of married and had children. Disgusting but targaryan af
As typical with these stories, everyone is both wrong and right.
Corlyis!!!!
the important thing imo is that the show is making a way better case for Alicent than the book did
They're both in the wrong. I'm not picking any side.. I know what both sides are capable of and I'm just interested in seeing how everyone defends their "team"...
I think there's an important detail in this episode
When Viserys was suggested a C-section, he asked "can the child survive?"
When Daemon is asked the same, he asks "will the mother survive?"
While it was nice of Daemon to not be prioritizing the mother over the child, I thought it was a bit hardcore for the mom to allow the baby to fry with her. She might know she's gone for sure, but the baby could be saved. Daemon, I assume, isnt that big on kids anyway, and wouldnt have stood in ehr way
@@DeathsquadDemongods she thought they were both done and decided to leave her own way. Can you blame her?
Daemon married Laena over politics and to get away from Rhaenrya and his brother. The show makes it clear and Daemon was miserable without his Targ family. Asking if the mother will survive would be a way out. That's just Daemon. And, Raenys was suspicious about Laena's death. Daemon did not show any emotion but shock and admiration. The death of Viserys and his child with Rhaenrya brought him to his knees. Daemon had a fleet of ships, 2 childten to use as heirs, and dragons. That is what he wanted from that union. All to help..Rhaenyra.
@@lisas3545wtf is wrong with you
I like that Alt Shift never directly spoils the show for the non-readers, but he drops little bits of wording that serve as winks for us who have have read the books.
Agreed. As someone who has not read the books, i appreciate it. Plus, the show deviates from the books somewhat
I mean he did spoil that Helaena's prophecy will come true. Sure he censored what she said, but anyone who remembers what she said would have gotten spoiled.
@@JoJoJet100 It's in one of the trailers also
I smile anytime I see one of those "winks"
Glad to be one of those who have have read the books
It's kind of heartbreaking to watching the kids interact because they're... doing kid stuff. Aegon clearly likes his nephews. Their parents have failed them
Yeah :(
Rhaenyra's kids are just eyeing to play with Aemond. I hope they get the chance to
@@rkiwtir1146 I see what you did there :)
Aegon's interactions with his nephew were so sweet. I love the part where Jace looks at Aegon first before telling Vermax dracarys.
Hard to tell. Aegon seems like a typical first royal spoiled child. Not sure if he likes his nephews or just likes that he is older and can manipulate them. The teasing of his own brother is pretty normal for siblings but definitely bad parenting for Alicent to say he can bully Aemond at home. The message should be no bullying obviously.
It's interesting Rhaeneras kids know of the rumors about them and flat out ask their mom about it.
I straight up did not notice, until this video, that Viserys lost an arm between episodes 😂
Me neither.
he's literally falling apart 😂
He lost 2 hands this episode 😉
Dont worry, Neither did Alt Shift X lol! someone pointed it out in the livestream, and he was like: Oh he iiiissss missing an arm!
ME NEITHER 😅
Alicent: marries a Targareyn.
Also Alient: wonders why her children are acting weird.
nah it’s gotta be her genes making them weird, rhaenrya and her sons are normal. same w daemons daughters
@@clemenIemon has nothing to do with their genes, they mostly have quirky personalities and Aemond being obsessed with being a dragon rider while seeing his nephews and brother have dragons is not strange at all
@@clemenIemon how much hatred you incest loving Daemyra shippers are holding for fictional complex characters, lol? A child is weird because of their mothers gene?🤦
@@clemenIemon Every time a Targaryen is born, the gods flip a coin...
@@justt1984 I just realized I was rewatching an old video I was like there's no way this man just described a drunken rapist as a quirky dude, but I get it hadnt happened yet lmao
Gotta give props to Rhaenyra for actually bringing some fresh genes into the Targaryen bloodline.
Yeah at this rate without it they’ll start giving birth to half dragon hybrids.
Wait…
🤣When your family tree slowly becomes a stick you have to act...
Viserys did too lol
@@merrittanimation7721 Laena was supposed to have one of those
@@thamayor6324 Viserys' wife was Aemma Arryn she was a cousin her mother was Daela Targareyen
Alicent: "honor and decency will prevail"
Also Alicent: "keeps a murderer from facing justice and makes him her kingsguard/gossip buddy"
Now a murderer kingsguard AND a devious kinslaying psychopath. She's on a role picking and choosing her allies.
Yup, hypocrisy at its finest. It's a huge theme. The standard of honor she imposes on others becomes suspiciously lenient when applied to herself or anyone that furthers her personal interest. She is corrupt already and it will only get worse.
On the flip side, Rhanerya has been quite foolish. It would've been prudent to have at least 1 legitimate child, even if she had to go full Margarey Tyrell and bring in help to get her husband going. Really curious where this goes
@@onTimeAlways404 I believe both are shit anyway, Rhanerya is getting pass cuz of good acting cuz her job would be to gain people's favour as women cannot be "head of the state" instead of that affair. I believe Alicient is more "moral" in medieval times.
And wants her rapist son to ascend the throne, has a disgusting session of grossness with Larys and never punishes larys for killing his own family. Alicent doesn't think Rhaenyra would be fit to rule but her son, who rapes any woman who's not giving him consent would be fit to rule. Sure, there's not been Aegon the rapist.
@Bottlife 240 At least the Targaryens know they're at war with one another. Larys sets his house on fire killing his whole family seemingly out of nowhere - that's some psycho shit
I actually think Rhaenyra choosing to take Joffrey to Alicent herself rather than passing him to a servant was a display of strength, as well showing that she has become paranoid about Alicent and her intent towards her children (just as Alicent has of her).
I'm sure George thought naming extremely minor historical figures after Muppets (Elmo, Kermit, Oscar) would just get lost in the endless amounts of history, but it'd be hilarious if they had to introduce the characters now that they're expanding on Fire and Blood.
I'd be pissed if they changed the names
Glory to Grover, lord of the riverlands and protector of Sesame St.
Oh, we're going to see most if not all of them. I'm sure they'll keep all the same names, and maybe even drop a cheeky easter egg in somewhere. :)
Holding out hope for a Ser Snufflelupagus Tully
I'll be upset if there's no Kermit Tully
Vhagar and Caraxes having their first "Dance" in this episode, just flying and having a great time together is so poetic and ironic at it's very essence.
Shows that the dragons have nothing against eachother. It's the riders.
Spoilers
The Battle Over the God’s is gonna be painful in the best way possible
Back when Aemon and Baelon were alive, they danced back then as well. 🙇🏻♂️
😭💔
What the fuck is this comment
The grudge is strong in Criston. Someone forgot to tell him that it's been 10 years now, not 2 episodes ago.
Viserys just loves his family and wants them to all get along and get what they want, but what they want is mutually exclusive.
And he plays with micromachines! I’m gonna miss him
Man just wants everyone to get along and indulge in his hobbies, but reality keeps getting in the way
@@banquetoftheleviathan1404 lmao micromachines
I love that they made Helaena into just as much of a nerd as her dad. They both just want to indulge in their nerdy hobbies.
I think its really telling that a few episodes ago Viserys mentioned that he's not even the one making the minatures himself, he just tells the stonemasons what to make for him. He really needs help to do everything, even his hobbies.
I love the perspective you have in your analysis. The Dragons ‘dancing together ‘was so poetic and lovely. Pregnant Leana, knowing she will lose her life and baby and wanting to go out on her own terms and commanding Vhagar to burn her and the hesitance was so powerful and heartbreaking to watch. The pleading was the thing that got to Vhagar
In the history tome, they said Leana, delirious from dying to child birth, went out to ride Vhagar one last time cause she wanted to die as a dragon rider but then fell off her dragon. Idk, I think this might've been a better way for her to go, but obviously wouldn't have been so dramatic. Suicide of herself and the baby makes her seem a bit selfish. Not saying it's a bad change at all cause it was very interesting to see Vhagar's reaction, but I think the alternative route might've been a better overall for her character arc.
Yeah i think it's been established that Dragons are near if not equal in intellect as humans. So it would be like a queen asker her royal knight to kill her. I love how they are giving the dragons individual perosnalities. The dragons in GoT were largely interchangable save that Drogon was the one rode by Danerys.
@@thehumanity0 I disagree on it being selfish. Better not to suffer. She was going to die anyway, and I kinda see it like almost an assisted suicide for those that are terminally ill. The babe probably wouldn't have survived without her, and because they opted out of the c-section the child would've suffocated in the birth canal and it would've killed them both anyway. Hosting a dead babeh in you without being able to purge it is a poison.
@@thehumanity0 she fell on her dragon? Isn't it more like her falling on the stairs and daemon Carries her back to bed and she dies besides Rhaenyra and Daemon
@@lgt_jne Alt Shift X had said in another video she falls off her dragon. Idk maybe I'm remembering wrong and she was just on her way to try to ride her dragon before she died
17:54 scene reminds of the historical "Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?" ("What miserable drones and traitors have I nurtured and promoted in my household who let their lord be treated with such shameful contempt by a low-born cleric!") by king Henry II that led to the assassination of the Archbishop of Canterbury Thomas Becket. Alicent wants them dead, but retains plausible deniability. The fact that Larys is the son and the brother of those assassinated and possibly wants it even more than the monarch is a brilliant twist of the historical event, Martin is the best with these things.
Martin leaves it vague in the books. The fire is a mystery. All this with Larys is a show plot.
I'm intrigued by Larys motivation. It seemed that his Father and Brother didn't mistreat him despite his physical condition, so his willingness to murk them shocked me.
Alicent certainly showed her naivety, but I think eventually Larys will influence her much in the way that Littlefinger did Sansa. Moving from naive and smart to shrewd and calculative, except Sansa never went off the deep end, and I think Alicent will
@@msanjelica I think he has influenced show's writing, no?
@@KingsandGenerals I honestly don't know. He's said he's not writing, but I don't know how involved he actually is.
love what your channel does too xoxo
“daemon’s trying to run away …from the constant drama he constantly creates.” 😭😭
I think we haven't seen enough of Laena to really care about her fate. That Vhagar scene would have been much more heartbreaking with more character development. It's a shame beacause the actress did really well in the few screen time she had
@jeon vlya what
@jeon vlya are you smoking crack
I feel Alicent is being eased into murdering people to achieve her goals. First protecting a murdering kingsguard, now having a straight up Kinslayer as ally. It would be a point to stop and go "am I the baddy?" and seeing that, so far, only her faction has straight up caused people to get killed. Instead she is learning to rationalize things she still feels shock and moral outrage towards.
I could see her slipping into a pattern of using Larys to dispose of obstacles from now on. She has definitely become much less Sansa-like in the 10 years since the last episode.
Yeah, Alicent says to Larys she 'didn't want anyone to die', but every action and step she takes is towards being more adversarial, destructive, and straight up playing at & pushing towards war. She's knowingly petty and spiteful, but equally foolish and ignorant to not think her actions wouldn't lead to death and chaos.
@@mattm7798 Watch her make use of an up and coming Lord Commander of the Kingsguard
@@mattm7798 I can see that
She orders the killings but downplays it since it’s not her doing the killings herself
To be fair though, Rhaenyra is the one siring illegitimate heirs left and right and destabilising her already shaky claim to the throne.
I can understand why Alicent is furious when she offers to marry her firstborn to her true born daughter who under the new president would be third in line.
On the other hand I also understand Viserys does want to pretend that everything is as it should be not wanting to destroy his family over it.
"You may know what is the right thing to be done but love stays the hand.”
I feel for Alicent a little bit when Larys basically blackmails her by including her in the guilt of his scheme, but realistically what did she expect would happen if “justice” was done and Rhaenyra’s children were publicly acknowledged as bastards? Harwin would have been killed, and maybe the kids, and maybe even Lyonel. She’s actively sewing the seeds of war in this episode while also feeling very sanctimonious about herself. A character greyer than she even realizes herself 10/10 writing
Yep Larys little favor is gonna come back and haunt her one day
I think she is still a little naive but I def believe her when she expressed shock at the method. Also, while Larys does have dirt on Alicent kind of, she is still the queen, still a member of house hightower and I think could dispatch of larys(or attempt to) if she ever saw him as a threat
@@mattm7798 was thinking about this. If she was smart she would have turned him in immediately and still gotten what she wanted.
I think she would have no problem with Garwin etc. being executed after an official judgement - but this kind of underhanded backstabbing, that's too "dirty" for her. In this mediaeval culture that values honor and courage, execution and assassination are not the same - despite having the same end result.
@@Dell88music True, if she was scared enough but right now, she needs all the allies she can get and Larys has shown to be able to get things done. Larys also doesn't profess any outward ambition for himself, so is not an immediate threat to her.
The show seems to be building up a moment were Alicent will try to distance herself from Larys.
Been watching your videos since my freshman year in college (2015) and even after all these years it still feels like a crime that you provide us this quality of content for free. Keep reigniting our love for fiction Alt, some of us greatly appreciate the effort.
Same here, started watching in college when Game of Thrones was huge and hear I am years later, enjoying these videos in a brand new prequel show. Crazy how time flies, I remember those GOT Sunday nights and reading reddit discussion threads but waiting most patiently for the Alt Shift X video to drop. What a ride we're in for, glad you're still here with us!
Daemon is teaching his kids Valyrian, but Rhaenyra isn’t teaching hers-they need translators for the dragonpit tenders and only learn the dragon command words in isolation
Did anyone notice the look that the midwife behind Rhaenyra made when saw the baby? As if saying, "Oh, no! Not another brown haired baby!"
That's a great piece of direction that most would not even notice.
Haha, if true, that would be interesting. It's like "well, ive got good news and bad news. Good news is it's another boy...bad news...guess who he looks like"
@CameraOnDoug no. He doesn’t. He has brown hair too
@CameraOnDoug that’s a little sleep cap, love. Not silver hair 😅
The actor for Lionel was really good. I could really feel the sadness and desperation in his voice when he was talking to his son. It felt very real.
Felt so bad for young Aemond…
I’m sure he will grow into a very nice chap in the future…
I’m sure he’ll be a very nice chap with two eyes
Everything gonna be fine! Right?
He should go on a trip with his uncle. Maybe somewhere mystical, like the gods eye lake?
@@bhunt372 Kid really should listen more to his sister.
Haha right, definitely no foreshadowing for him to basically be Daemon 2.0, always feeling insecure and needing to prove himself.
I just realized Laenor should hate Criston more than Alicent hate Rhaenerya. Rhaenerya only lied to Alicent and got her father fired. Not that the Hightowers needed that job to eat. But Criston killed Laenor’s bf. Laenor should have planned for Criston to meet an “accident” in those 10 years. But he was there to support Rhaenerya and probobly put it aside for her
Seeing Vhagar was one of the best things I've seen, she's such a legendary dragon! Even in her old age she's still a badass and I can only imagine how she was during Visenya's time. The Dance with Caraxes was amazing! Hoping the book stuff with them happens later on.
Vhagar to Caraxes: kid.. le'me teach you how to make a badass entrance..
Agreed craxes was my favorite dragon until vhagar showed up i like how they actualy made her look so ancient totaly diffrent from all the others
Bravo to HBO. They show their quality. Vhagar looked old, and yet regal, powerful. Such great design
I look forward to these breakdowns each week. Fantastic work, ASX, you're my absolute favourite ASOIAF expert! I would really love you to do more Stark/North-of-the-wall content in the future. Cheers! 💐
Thanks so much! Next big ASOIAF video will be about Jon Snow -- and his adventures beyond the Wall..
@@AltShiftX I can't wait..
@@AltShiftX fuckyea
Such a big expert yet he can't even count! There were 4 deaths by fire, not three. How could he forget about a GOAT??
@@fakefolkblues valar dohaeris
I think Viserys refusal to even acknowledge the allegations about his grandkid's parentage is the right move. It could have much bigger consequences that simply their claim being challenged. At best, it could lead to exile for all parties involved (Rhaenyra, her kids, Harwen, Laenor, etc). At worst, execution for some or all of them. Which could lead to armed conflict with houses Strong and Velaryon. Plus, they are still family.
At this point, it would essentially be starting a war with Corlys and Rhaenys, so yeah, he def doesn't want that.
Still, all this is on Rhanerya. She should have done the deed, with her husband, popped out a couple of his kids, and everything would be fine. The fact she keeps having kids with her lover shows she does have alot of hubris, like no one is going to notice.
I don't even see how it matters too much in the short term since Rhaenyra is the next heir, not her child. She's clearly not going to crown her child the moment he comes of age, so it seems like a problem for another day, that is, if it wasn't for Alicent conniving in any way possible to take away Rhaenyra's claim.
@@thehumanity0 If you don’t see the relevance and how “it matters” your either Not paying attention, willfully ignorant or slow witted!
It’s literally a ticking time b o m b set to go off.
Im telling you her dad is covering her and ppl at court aren’t fools while he’s there she’s got a safeguard.But the MOMENT he’s gone it’s a rap! Mark my words!
@@thehumanity0 Rhaenyra's heirs potentially being illegitimate does make a huge difference. Also, it's the fact that Rhaenrya is committing treason by having her affair and birthing bastards instead of legitimate heirs (fair or unfair, that's how her actions would be viewed). So that part does affect the standing of Rhaenrya's own claim.
@@jayclearmen411 Wow. I'm happy to debate the series with you, but calling people slow witted over discussion about theory is really something. Also, maybe don't spoil the plot, which it sounds like what you might be doing.
The heir doesn't necessarily have to be a son, even though that's the most accepted instance. Jaehaerys's succession took place over 50 years into his rule and went to his grandchildren. If Rhaenyra's children are outed as bastards, she has several options. Her husband Laenor could simply deny the allegations, she could decide to have a legitimate child with Laenor and name that child the heir, or after the King dies and she succeeds the throne, she could simply use her power to legitimize the children as true born Targaryons just as Roose Bolton did for Ramsey Snow. What matters most is that they have the Targaryon blood and they're dragon riders, dragons are power in this world and usually override politics. The heir after Rhaenyra is still being perceived outside the Red Keep as Rhaenyra and Laenor's child, so the secret is likely fine until the King dies, in which case THEN you will have discussion over the legitimacy of the next succession, ie why I said it was more or less a problem for another day. More importantly, the more current issue is if the realm will accept a woman as a ruler. It's true Rhaenyra's childrens' parentage could be used against her to de-legitimize her more, but it is only a smaller portion of a larger problem even if she can't find a solution to her kids being bastards. The realm wanting a son over a daughter as the heir is the far more immediate issue.
He says “he has the fathers nose” not Laenors, he specifically says “father” which is almost a Freudian slip that he knows who the father is
Yeah I missed it but this video brought up that the show all but directly says that Viserys knows the truth, but if he outs Rhaenerya, he basically goes to war with Corlys.
I *adore* how old Vhagar looks, its so well done
Right, each dragon really has its own personality and look.
That little edit glitch you did when you said “destabilize the kingdom” was awesome. This, among MANY reasons, is why you’re the best.
Alt Shift X is a prince
duration?
7777777777644
@@Ra-Hul-K Max 3 mins but only if you include the undressing part.
5:42 Despite the Greens gossiping/wishcasting that the "Strong bastards" won't be able to hatch eggs (which all 3 proceed to do), we don't have textual evidence that ANY of Alicent's children was able to hatch a cradle egg: Sunfyre hatched on Dragonstone and Aegon claimed it, Dreamfyre belonged to Rhaena Targaryen before bonding with her great-great-niece Helaena, Aemon at this point in HOTD has no dragon, and we're never told whether Tessarion the Blue Queen was hatched in the cradle or claimed (I tend to think claimed based on her size relative to her rider's age).
I’m still conflicted on Alicent’s reaction to what happens at Harrenhal. I get that she didn’t wish for the Strongs to die, much less explicitly order it, but I just can’t believe that she never expected things to get this messy.
She’s been insisting that her family must win or die for years now. She’ll make Rhaenyra come to her right after childbirth and insist that Viserys punish her for infidelity. She ignores the sins of her family and allies while insisting the Blacks will be the doom of them all.
And then she’s like “I didn’t want anyone to die”??? Don’t get me wrong, I love it as a character flaw, but it came across as so insincere that I didn’t believe it for a second. It feels so childish to refuse peace or compromise and then suddenly go “I didn’t want things to go like this :( “
She just wants all the perks, none of the responsibility or guilt.
One thing - she didn't actually ask to see Rhaenyra after the birth, I think? She just wanted to see the baby just to check if it was Laenor's. Rhaenyra decided to walk up there herself.
@@arielvanmoos7583 I mean who asks to see a just born baby
the weekend doesn't end until alt shift x posts an explained video, and it doesn't begin until the live q&a ends
For a brief second, I thought he said Helaena is deeply fascinated with incest. Then my brain turned off Targaryen mode and realized he said "insects" lol
Yeah being fascinated with incest isn’t really something needs to bring up in regards to Targaryens. Not being into incest is what’s unusual
The connection is actually not as farfetched as one might think. There is a film titled "Angels and Insects" based on A.S. Byatt's novel "Morpho Eugenia" in which insects and incest play an important role.
Please don’t put down the great Kermit and Oscar Tully’s please. They’re the one ones to bring the great house of Tully the most prestige they’ll ever have.
Waldorf: "The greatest of the Tullys" sounds like being damned with faint praise.
Statler: Who's the greatest Riverlander then?
Waldorf: Gregor Clegane. Sure he's not from the Riverlands, but he did those people a favour.
Statler: And what is that?
Waldorf: Spared them from living through the final season.
Both: Dohohohohoho!
The significant difference between Circei's kids and Rheanyra's kids is that the latter's are the children of the Royal heir, whereas the former are not (not Roberts kids). The strong bois are more like Gendry in that sense.
Or more like Bloodraven and Bittersteel, where if they're acknowledged as bastards but legitimized, they're still descended from the monarch and thus in line for the throne
It's incredibly sad watching the adults push a rift between their kids. Aegon is perfectly fine to live peacefully and seems to have no ill will towards Rhaenyra and the two sets of kids seem to get along besides the bullying of Aemond over not having a dragon.. it's just sad that Viserys chooses to do nothing rather than assert himself but at this point he may just be too weak
Your videos are so well edited and your voice is like butter to my ears. 10/10!
Ngl, I bursted out laughing when they showed Rhaenyra’s kids and how they were acting like they were actually Laenor’s kids.
Ikr? I thought they were going to change things around from the book so the black Velaryons would make sense but it's all basically the same as the book with no explanation for why her kids are the whitest kids ever. It's so fuckin stupid. XD
What do you mean by acting like they were actually Laenor’s kids? I don't think they were partying and engaging in buggery.
Same could be said for Daemon and Leanas kids.
They’re darker than she is 🤔
Except these are actually supposed to actually be his kids 🤦🏻♂️
Ikr 😂
At least in the books you could say "oh maybe they got that black hair from their grandma"
But here... Everyone is legally blind I guess
@@Gooning_Chunguz Yeah and even Viserys is like "Muh White Horse had brown babies so this is also chill". That being said though I think Viserys knows its not really Laenor's kids but his love for his late wife is whats causing this willful blindness towards his daughter and everyone else is too scared to say something out loud for fear of losing their tongues.
You have no idea how much I appreciate having the family trees visually represented.
I love that it's the exact same picture of Mushroom every time he makes an outlandish claim. I hope he's still popping up at the series finale.
I smile and giggle to myself every time the Mushroom image pops up lol
@@ratbox_ same lol 😂
i LOVE YOUR CONTENT. youve opened me up to so much Lore. its really given me a new perspective on Martins work and i just love it. thank you so much for all your work
I thought clubfoot's sigil was a bee as it references his 'honeyed words' which they mention in the book, he keeps playing with flowers, and his little birds are 'drones' serving the queen.
When I was first watching the episode, I thought that the fireflies Larys put on the cloaks of the prisoners were real bugs. If that were the case, maybe Larys is able to skin-change them, literally bugging his minions.
You buggin
😂 Great theory Quinn. Who knows, maybe the pins are made from weirwood...
@@ShubertReads Nah they're clearly metal
It did feel very odd for him to basically give the secret assassin's his badge. What if one of them were caught. Could just be a plot hole or could come up in the future.
Larys has quickly become one of my favorite characters in the series. A mixture of Littlefinger and Jaime.
:O you got to make the pun!
Alicent kind of takes Ned Stark's "It's wrong because it's wrong" attitude and dissects it by removing Ned's likeability (decent parent, tries to spare people). Alicent sees something she sees as wrong and seeks punishment no matter how disproportionately destructive the aftermath. She is pointing Westeros towards war over bastards just like how Ned Stark did over Joffrey (he had opportunity to at least just take charge of Joffrey as reagent).
To this end, they both go to morally corrupt people to try and do their dirty work. Alicent to Larys and Ned to Littlefinger.
Both backfire, one literally.
This is the fastest I've clicked on a video notification from Alt Shift X. I look forward to these every week. Keep up the good work.
The difference between Rhaenyra’s bastard children and Cersei’s is that the claim to the throne is from Robert, not Cersei. So having kids that are not Robert’s kills any potential claim had they been discovered.
But even if Rhaenyra just said ‘yeah my kids are all bastards’, because they’re incontrovertibly HER bastards, there is nothing stopping her from legitimising them. Sure, it would be scandalous, but legally they would be the legitimate heirs, bastard or no.
Vhagars hesitancy brought tears to my eyes.
Not gonna lie, I’ve checked this channel every day for updates.
Was waiting for this 😭❤️
Same lol
I like how everyone is serious and scheming but Viserys just wants his family to get together and watch a game of football
I think that people in real life usually "fear" for the things that they are capable of doing. I mean that Alicent fears Rhaenyra will kill her children without any hint for that (except the word of her not-at-all-saint father). But I believe that Rhaenyra would never do that to her former best friend's and father's children (siblings!)... So I mean that I think that Alicent probable would be more capable of killing Rhaenyra's children, than the opposite!
u have onlyfans?
HBO should hire you and release these as official guides right after the episodes.
I like that this channel isn’t directly tied to HBO Max. I think it adds a barrier for Alt Shift X to critique the show without bias. I think he did something like what you’re talking about with The Expanse though.
Alicent's crusade for decency is a sham. She'd already decided her path before Rhaenyra gave birth to her first child, thanks to her father insisting Rhaenyra would murder Alicent's kids. Her green dress at the wedding declared as much.
Things would have been no different if all the kids were actually for Leanor. The dance would have still happened. Rhaenyra's children are her blood. So Alicent can kick rocks because ultimatel...Rhae would not have killed her half siblings.
BTW, mixing blood into the mortar is not as outlandish as it sounds. In the middle ages, mortar was mixed with protein binders. Oxblood was such an additive, that was supposed to improve workability and was widely used. 22:49
Alicent says to Larys she 'didn't want anyone to die', but every action and step she takes is towards being more adversarial, destructive, and straight up playing at & pushing towards war. She's knowingly petty and spiteful, but equally foolish and ignorant to not think her actions wouldn't lead to death and chaos.
The Rhaenyra switch is the most noticible to me. Milly put so much of herself into the character in a good way. It would be hard for anyone to follow her performance. Emma plays her in a much more vulnerable and timid way, which makes some sense as a mother who is living such a dangerous lie. I want to give her a chance and hope she finds the dragon inside her. Maybe Daemon will be a good bad influence.
I think Emma maintains the hard headedness Milly put into the character but left behind the constant princess whining about no one listening to her. This Rhanera seems much more ready for the likely upcoming war.
@@mattm7798 She still has no fire in her. No charisma with Daemon.
@@olorin4317 ?
Casting for this show is so spot on its unbelivable. GoT had good casting but this is on another level. Harwin Strong as brilliant for the 5 minutes he was on screen. Olivia Cook (older Alicent) stole the show - 10/10 choice. She is perfect
And some even have a bit of "family" resemblance, the best example being Rhaenyra with Aemma - at first when I saw "the older" Rhaenyra, I thought for a moment that it's the same actress. And both young and older Alicent look really similar too. Amazing job. Though I have to note that Baela and Rhaena are not all too similar both among themselves and to their parents :D
I agree the casting is very good but GoT is among the best of any series I've ever seen. I'll watch a clip of the first seasons and forgot it was so so good.
Don't be rediculous, GoT had some of the best casting ever in TV.
Luke is adorable!!!! All of Harwin’s sons are handsome like him, even Joffrey is a handsome baby. I love watching Aegon being so playful with Luke. Aegon seems having good temperament, i would actually root for him if his mother isn’t instilling hate in him.
Btw, the Arabic thobe looks so good on Jace and Luke, in fact i admire all the fine details on the costumes worn by Rhaenyra, Harwin and their children. Brings back memories of me admiring the costumes back in GoT season 2 and 3.
If Helaena can dream of the future, her story just became way too tragic
Ver curious how they position her character. She seems to take after her grandmother, being more tomboyish.
I think that she doesn’t understand her predictions, it seems to be a bunch of informations in her head that she just says but doesn’t really interpret that much
@@mattm7798her grandma is Aemma tho?
Thanks!
The fact the Tullys here are named after Muppets makes me imagine an alternate version of Game of Thrones where all the Tullys and Stark Children are played by muppets and no one bats an eye.
HBO should really start paying you for these vids. They add to the series in a multitude of ways & help build on the viewers' understanding of world, which in turn allows fans to enjoy the series even more. Having these as extras/bonus videos on the HBO HotD page would actually be a smart move.
There were just so many things to digest in this episode, appreciate the breakdown of each individual thing that happened. These explanations just make me appreciate the depth of the story so much more as someone who has not read the books!
Your videos are really something else. It's really helpful to see the names and pictures of everything you are talking about - and it's awesome how much research you put into each video to draw comparisons between the books and GOT universe.
Keep the incredible work!
One detail that I think is really important is the way Rhaenyra told Jacaerys about his parentage. She told him "You're a Targaryen, that's all that matters". That is very similar to how Ned Stark eludes revealing Jon Snow true parentage and just answers "You have my blood" the last time they say each other.
I’ve never read any of the books related to the GoT/HotD world, but I absolutely love both shows. That being said, I’m so glad I found this channel because I’m so horrible when it comes to picking up on the subtle details. It’s definitely been a huge help!
I kinda wonder if Jacaerys isn't actually Harwin's son. I'm not sure how old he is, but he looks around 9 or 10, the same amount of time it's been since the wedding.
Maybe, Rhaenyra *didn't* drink the moontea given to her by Mellos, and got pregnant after having sex with Criston. What if Ser Criston is Jacaerys' real father?
Also, that would make the scene where Criston encouraged Aemon to bully Jacaerys ironically tragic.
I think he is Criston's son too! She didn't drink the moon tea and the kid has much straighter hair than the second one (like Criston has straighter hair than Harwin)... I would like so much to see Criston learn the truth and trying to get atonement for betraying Rhaenyra so easily and so much! We' ll see 😁
I hate that idea tbh
@@odetteathina4811 oh my sweet summer child.
@@odetteathina4811
I doubt that’s happening and it’s never said that she didn’t drink it
Nah, Aemond wasn’t even born yet when Cole and Rhaenyra had sex, and Jace is younger than Aemond. It’s physically impossible for him to be Cole’s, which is likely why Cole is extra salty because he knew he was replaced by Harwin when Jace was born lol.
Loved the bit where Daemon snarked about the bastards looking suspiciously like the Commander of the Gold Cloaks (aka Harwin)…which is also his previous position. Sounded real salty about what could have been there heh.
I am so annoyed with Alicent and Otto, they both continously create and perpetuate their worst fears into existence
Otto planted these fears in Alicent and now she does the same in Aegon
Telling him he must be king will intiate the war and danger that they claim to want to avoid
Not to mention, Alicent is plenty treacherous and dishonest when it suits her, she started the discord with Rhaenyra when she moved in on her dad after her mother died without telling her supposed best friend
And if Alicent was actually concerned about the safety of her children she would jump at the offer to unite their houses in marriage and avoid conflict
The truth is she gets off on the idea of "putting Rhaenyra in her place" by force, just like she was
It is sick
Those fears were real though, and it shows by how normal people didn't accept rhaenyra as heir in ep 4.
A war is coming regardless and she accept Rhaenyra’s offer because her children are bastards.
It's easy to berate and criticise people when you're not in their position. Do you think alicent is some kind of jesus who makes all the best decisions? Of course she's treacherous, and a massive hypocrite, just like rhaenyra, that's what makes them human (and the show watchable).
They're both disatisfied with womanhood in westeros, but only one of them has the means to live above those expectations, and thus Alicent developed that huge grudge that eats her from the inside. Pretty much explains why she doesn't want to marry her children to rhaenyra's, she doesn't want the "bastard blood" of Jaecerys, born out of rhaenyra's freedom, or how kristen cole would say, "spoiling", to poison Helaena's "Pureness". It's a sick mindset, but an understandable one.
So Rhaenyra just gets a pass for having THREE BASTARD CHILDREN AND LYING TO ALICENT. Also Otto isn't wrong many people don't Rhaenyra as queen and her having BASTARDs doesn't really help claim
@@eliasmagus5086 They're not bastards because Laenor gave them his family name and Corlys names Luke heir to Driftmark so it doesn't matter what people say
Highlight of my week these videos, so well explained and also teaches me things about the history and lore of the world. Great job
im impressed with the way you can keep calm talking about some potential things to happen BEING AWARE WHAT'S EXACTLY GOING TO HAPPEN
Interesting fact: Talya (Alicent's maid) is played by Alexis Raben, who also happens to be Miguel Sapochnik's wife :)
Thank you for the indepth analysis. It must be quite a tedious process going through all that research and editing. It's a beautiful thing. Keep going!
I would have liked to see how Laena got Vahgar... sounds like a missed opportunity.
Or at least have her tell her Rhaena the story when she’s sad her egg won’t hatch
I think the show would have benefited from one more episode between this and the last, and that would be one of many great things to cover there.
That’s what I didn’t get about her showing up in this episode. She’s the oldest dragon alive in the world, she helped conquer Westeros. Surely their should have been some explanation of how and why she just turned up?
Dude the burning room meme on an Alt Shift X got me😭
lol let’s go pat
I honestly wish House Strong was never gifted harrenhal. A shame to place a curse on such a cool House.
This has got to be the clearest explanation of any show I've ever watched. Awesome.
@9:21 " ..while Alicent have followed the rules and done her duty." Yeah right, because having as her protector the murderer of the closest companion of one of the most powerful royal house at that time (and through Rhaenys and marriage, an extension of the reigning royal family) and dressing herself and her children in green, her house's color when in war, is not an open act of rebellion, insult and treason towards the Targaryens. And yet, people and Viserys, Rhaenyra and Laenor, have been very tolerant of her as well.
I've been so pleasantly surprised by this show, particularly given the downward trajectory the main series took imo. HotD has caught my interest from the first episode. Much like your breakdowns, thanks :D
I normally agree with your analysis but disagree a bit that Rhaenyra's bastards are equivalent to Cersei's bastards - not so much. Rhaenyra is the heir and the kids are still hers, they may be bastards but they are hers. It would be more akin to Gendry Baratheon, who had Robert's blood but was his bastard. When/If Rhaenyra becomes Queen she could legitimize them, much like Ramsay became legitimized.
I love Alt Shift's dry wit in these analyses. "It doesn't really make sense to put your logo on your super-secret spy agents" made me laugh out loud. The best thing is that the whole analysis is so spot-on, and then these funny lines sneak up on you at random. Always enjoyable when ASX gets his post-episode takes out!
Question: One thing you’ve not mentioned is that Alicent has redecorated her rooms to be rid of the erotic tapestries. They seem to be blank “decorative” panels now. What are your thoughts on this?
maybe when she was younger she was curious and excited about sex but now that we know she's miserable during sex with viserys she isn't so fond of those tapestries
Hmm, She took them down, probably, because Aegon's was masturbating non-stop in front of the tapestries.
Hah! Alicent is being shown to be responsible for all of her children's vices.
They are essentially Targaryon bragging that they are part dragon, and Alicent doesnt seem to want blatant sexuality in the castle.
@@mattm7798 exactly! Alicent is definitely being depicted as vengefully repressed.
In the ASOIAF books, it is mentioned that Littlefinger gained possession of the castle tapestries. I thought it was about evidence of paternity or some other scheme… now with HotD, it seems it was to class up his brothel rooms with Targaryen artifacts.
@Alsonallu you got all that. From her just having blank tapestry ? Stop reading so hard into shit💀
my favorite part about the yard is it's clear at how well Harwin knows the boys. he delivers pinpoint corrections/coaching to the boys that shows that he knows not only their fighting style but also their strengths weakness on a super intimate level.
i gotta admit the main reason i am watching these explained clips that are the memes. keep them coming!
I love how your analyses videos are like 30 mins long, thats like half as long as the actual episodes. Appreciate your work!
Yes , a well constructed effort from alt shift x
12:36 why didn't Criston's head explode when he was subjected to the same treatment he gave in the last episode? Criston didn't even have mailed fists while Harwin did.
Harwin was holding back, his intention wasn't to kill Criston while Criston in the other hand was trying to kill joffery
The Joffrey scene is such a contrived mess. If you're gonna keep watching it's probably best to try to forget about it.
These are always so fantastic. I look forward to them every episode. Thanks for all your hard work on these.
I always thought Jacaerys and Lucerys were pronunced as Jackeris and Lukeris 😭
15:51 It's interesting to think about how genuine or not Rhaenrya's peace proposal actually is (my personal suspicion is: not very). Rhaenrya knows that Alicent believes her (Rhaenrya's) children to be bastards (and presumably also knows that Alicent is correct). So Rhaenrya knows from the start that Alicent will view this proposal as trying to make her wed her daughter to a bastard - which is not just undesirable but insulting. Accepting the marriage offer would also force Alicent to publicly accept the story that Jace (and by extension Luke) is actually Laenor's son, the very story that has her so frustrated. Likewise, the offer of dragon eggs for Aemond could also be seen as rubbing salt in the wound of Aemond not yet having a dragon while all of Rhaenrya's non-newborn sons do (a big deal considering the symbolism of dragons as a mark of Targaryen legitimacy). To me, this whole thing feels like a child trying to act nice to their sibling or classmate when the parent or teacher is around, while really not meaning any of it, and weaving veiled insults under the surface of the apparent apology or peacemaking.
Related to this, Rhaenrya may also be hoping that Viserys will like the idea so much that he will adopt it even over Alicent's objections. That would be an elegant way to muzzle Alicent's allegations about her and Harwin - then Alicent couldn't keep calling Rhaenrya's children bastards without also tainting her own daughter and future grandchildren.
You’re the best at explaining and giving us background on each character . Thank you 😊
Daemon killed the son of the sea lord of Braavos in a duel? and they didn't put that in the show? What a shame.
Imagine if in the next episode they bring in Lord Tully and his sons and they're all played by muppets and all of the characters act like it's normal.
At least one person on staff has to have suggested that, even as a joke
Isn't it weird that Rhaenyra is so quick to marry her kids off when it was so bad when she was a kid and married off?
Vhagar was super cool. Loved her design. She truly looked ancient and gargantuan. Really epic.
It's actually not that comparable to Cersei and her kids, because they weren't descendants of the king. Whereas in this example, Rhaenyra's children are descended from the future monarch.
It would be more like the Cersei situation if Laenor was having children with another woman and then they were passing them off as Rhaenyra's. (for instance, a situation where she gives birth, but the child is stillborn, so they replace it with another woman's child and pass it off as Rhaenyra's. So that she has heirs).
RIP to Harwin Strong, the hottest good boy in Westeros 😔
You are really the best yes!
I’ve listened to so many reviews/explanations since Sunday and while a lot of the information was similarly relayed, you have and EDGE.
That bit where you explained why Harrenhal was considered cursed SOLD me. New subscriber!!
'he's now missing an arm, and i totally noticed it on first watch'
When I see Friday come and go with no upload I got worried. Thanks for your hard work. Really appreciate it.