Thank you to subscriber @catherinetester8365 for bringing this story to my attention. And special thanks to Cathy Hufault for her approval and assistance with this story. For a much more detailed account of this ordeal, you can buy the book at the following links: arizonamtn.com/ www.amazon.com/Death-Clouds-Mt-Baldy-ebook/dp/B00533VPJE/ref=tmm_kin_title_0?ie=UTF8&m=AG56TWVU5XWC2
Nothing worse than the monsoon season in the sonoran desert! 🙄 It Floods the Arizona Everglades, and really makes the seas unforgiving on the gulf of NEW Mexico! 😬
@@billt6116 Really? I think the monsoon storms in southern Arizona are beautiful and can be terrifying at the same time. I've ridden out many storms in the skyislands. One time I was in a whiteout and had lightning strike a tree within 65 feet of my tent in the Huachuca Mountains. Another time, in the Mogollon Mountains of New Mexico, I was in my light when the camp became a lightning strike zone. Both times I was in my tent and knew to sit cross legged on folded up sleeping pads and clothes and keep you head away from the tent poles. It's the ground strikes that will get you before the tree or rock strikes. Be prepared and have the knowledge it takes to survive.
@Galiuros Just because it's a rainstorm, does not make it a monsoon rain! Did it last for 4 to 6 months?... NOT a monsoon... Not even close!! The plants that live in in Arizona desert would not survive a monsoon, And where is all your tropical plants? Arizona DOES NOT GET Monsoon rains, rogue waves, or Tsunamis. They just want to be "overly dramatic" like a bunch of Karen's! Just ask John McCain's daughter!!
One key lesson here is that those that turned back early made it. Those who pressed on didn't. Something to keep in mind when on a long hike, especially at altitude.
As an avid, longtime hiker since my early youth, I've never had an issue with simply turning back when trail, weather or wildlife conditions turn sketchy.
I disagree. The scouts did very little wrong. Sure, it’s getting dark. But they had TWO flashlight! Had it not for the snow storm, they would have gotten down late at night. Wet, cold, exhausted but alive. Who grew up on the desert think about snow storm? They died as a result of a freak weather event. Their decision was as good as what’s expected of them. Second guessing their decision to not turn around is no different from criticizing someone who got on an old plane which later crashed. They didn’t know what to look for. If any blame need to be placed, it’s the scout training of the adults living in Arizona not teaching these kids snow can happen in the mountain of AZ! Good story though
There is a case in Brazil of a scout boy that disappeared in 1985 on Pico dos Marins. His name was Marco Aurelio, he was only 15 and had a twin brother that still alive, but did not go to the mountian that day.His group was going up the mountain as a form of ceremony of the scouts, when they were almost at the top one of them sprained his ankle and could not continue, he could not walk so they had to carry him with an improvised stretcher. Then Marco Aurelio asked for the scout's chief if he could go down the mountain ahead of them to search for help, the chief accepted because he trusted the boy and gave him a whistle and a chalk to draw where he was passing through. The last place they saw his drawing was at a rock called "The Portal" which had a narrow pass and would be too hard to carry the injured boy through there, then they took a trail to the right because the chief thought it would end in the same direction of the normal trail. They took hours to down the mountian because of that decision and arrived at the base camp at night, for their surprise Marco Aureio was not there and nobody there has seen him. The chief of the scouts went back to the mountain to search for the boy, but after a lot of effort he was not found. At midnight they heard a whistle and went outside to check, then they saw some sort of lights coming from the woods , then it disappeared. The boy's father was an influent journalist and contacted the press to spread news about his lost boy, then police, firefighters and even the army were called to help searching the boy, they dit it for several days and he was not found until these days. Recently they excavated one of the houses from the basecamp searching for his body suspecting that the land owners had killed him, but nothing was found. I've been to Pico dos Marins and can affirm that is a dangerous place, even for a 2.421m mountain, the weather in that region is unstable and the high part of the mountain is easy to get lost. Some years ago a french runner got lost there and his body was found 20 days later, the death cause was hypothermia and yes, there is cold weather in Brazil besides not snowing and it can kill you. I believe Marco Aurelio died falling into some sort of hole that is common in that mountain, this is why his body was never found. Some people think he was kidnapped and still alive without memories, others think he was abducted. I feel sorry for his father that is an old man nowedays and could never discovered what happened to his son.
Thank you so much for bringing this to my attention! I was gripped by this story as soon as you mentioned it to me and been working on it ever since. Well done!
I once started a hike at 1 pm, when I was as naive as these kids. Today I always plan them so I summit at noon, like a proper mountaineer should. The way up may be the hard part, but the way down is the dangerous part - you always want plenty of time, daylight and energy for it. Also this story is a reminder that modern weather forecast has saved countless lives.
Another jaw dropping video from OD.. This channel is like no other. Much respect for the work it takes to get these (otherwise) forgotten stories told. Thank you!!!
I've lived in North Dakota most of my life. I've seen so many blizzards I can't even count them. But when I was 18 years old I was working in Washington State planting trees near Mount Saint Helens. We got there about 2 months after it blew. We had a crew of about 26 men. Our camp was on Mount Adams. Bird Creek flowed past our sauna tent. We worked long days and never took days off. Until it snowed so much, we had to take a week off. Henry, from Costa Rica, and myself wore snowshoes to hike the four miles to a cabin, stocked with supplies. Without snowshoes we couldn't have made it. The snow was up to our waist. I was used to the cold but Henry...well, he got an education. I still remember him wearing a poncho. Lol. It was well worth the hike and I became hooked on the lifestyle. I learned how to work with fire to survive in the wilderness. Now I'm 62 years old and I live in a wilderness camper! It's got a wood stove and it's so hot right now I got the door open! Learning how to bivouac can save your life. The mountains are not hard to survive because there's plenty of resources to keep you warm. Knowing how to access them is key. I've been stranded in a few blizzards and I've learned how to survive. But I never want to be cocky. My cousin froze to death in the parking lot of a shopping mall. I remember that night because it was -25 degrees. And I was driving in the middle of the night. I remember thinking it could have been me. Don't take anything for granted. And yes if there's a storm coming, seek shelter. Turning around can save your life. My dad was in Arizona one winter visiting my grandparents. Driving back he ran into a snowstorm in South Dakota. His car wasn't winterized and the block froze. But he had a mummy bag. Yeah the kind they have in the military. He stayed in that bag for 3 days until he got rescued. Sleeping bags can save your life no doubt about it. I have a slumberjack sleeping bag with quailofil I've had it a long time but it's rated at 35 below I believe. It's enough to keep your core body temperature where it should be. But you know, snow was a rare event on this mountain and I presume that's why they weren't prepared. The old saying "it's better to have it and not need it then need it and not have it" , has served me well. I've been unprepared a few times and it can be a costly mistake. I pray that these boys are with Jesus in peace.
It began snowing today here in AZ (in the White Mountains).. First time this year. I ventured out in my keen tennis shoes thinking...oh it's not gonna snow! As soon as I got home all the summer clothes were packed away and the winter duds came out!!! LOL Always be prepared! Thanks again for a thrilling, even tho sad, video. My fix is satisfied! ❤💋
I am utterly BAFFLED by John Erly’s decision--when he came across the lone, younger Boy Scout who was not his son, and who was on his way back to the Lodge clearly to report that disaster had befallen their hiking group during the night--I am **utterly baffled** by Erly’s irrational, seemingly “crazed” decision to have the boy turn around and lead him back up to the base camp, where the less “rash” members of the group were. WHY DIDN’T HE **IMMEDIATELY** HEAD BACK TO THE LODGE THE VERY INSTANT THE BOY TOLD HIM ABOUT THE METEOROLOGICAL DISASTER THAT HAD BEFALLEN THE HIKING GROUP; REPORTED THE EMERGENCY TO BOTH THE SHERIFF AND THE PARK SERVICE; AND HAVE THEM ARRANGE A **HELICOPTER SEARCH** FOR THE MISSING BOYS--rather than stupidly letting his obvious 1950’s “machismo” rule the day and have him WASTE PRECIOUS HOURS DURING WHICH THE BOYS **COULD** HAVE BEEN SEARCHED FOR FROM THE SKY, AS HE INSTEAD **USELESSLY** TRIED TO “BE A HERO” AND ATTEMPTED IN VAIN FOR A CONSIDERABLE TIME TO SAVE THE LOST BOYS HIMSELF BY CLIMBING UP THE SLOPES OF A MOUNTAIN COVERED IN 2-3 ft of snow, **wearing only a pair of stupid, useless, inappropriate MOCCASINS**!!! Even *had* John Erly found the lost boys himself, **IN WHAT CONCEIVABLE WAY MIGHT HE HAVE PRACTICALLY HELPED THEM**?!?!?!?!? He had no supplies; no food; no radio; no medical supplies; and no blankets, coats, or sleeping bags to help keep the boys warm! I *recognise* that in emergencies, people often panic and consequently act illogically. Yet this man’s son’s life was at stake: sometimes it’s far better to step back, regain one’s composure, and think calmly about what the best course of action to take in an emergency, rather than give in to the hysterical need to feel one is “taking action” every second.
I'm sure he thought about fateful decision every night until the day he died, and had shame every time he dealt with the other parents, knowing he as the driver and point of collection made the hike possible. Six kids, no adult. Overnight to summit at 9,500 ft during winter. What can go wrong.
Good morning JR, This was a really gripping story, but incredibly sad at the same time. I can't imagine what was going through David, Mike and Michael's minds during the freak snowstorm on Baldy, they must've been worried every second but trying to remain calm and not panic all at the same time. Although this happened a long time ago my heart goes out to their families and loved ones, and may David, Mike and Michael rest in peace 🙏🕊️
We always had adults hiking with us when I was in the Boy Scouts. They of course, had the sense to stop or turn back when we needed to while us kids would have just kept going. And one time that I remember they stopped us very early in the day. We were supposed to meet another troop who were coming in from the other direction. A storm was brewing and that is why we stopped, apparently the other troop still kept going and when they reached the top of the pass a lightening storm started up and a couple of scouts were hit. I don’t know how our scout master found out but he knew that rescue helicopters had been sent for the kids on the pass. We would have been in that same place if the scout master had not stopped us. This might be another story for you to find, it was in the late 1960’s on the backside of Mount Whitney area. I can only find a reference to one in 2015 on Google. The rescue Helicopter came from China Lake Navel Weapons Center along with their mountain rescue along with Inyo County Mountain Recue.
I grew up on a ranch in Colorado in the mountains. I routinely wandering out into our nearby forest to explore. Maybe risky, but I'm still here. Different time, different ways of raising kids. (if I had kids, I'd probably accompany them on hikes like that, though)
When I was 12 years old my friends and I would go camping and backpacking alone. This would be in the early 70s. To be honest my parents were not the greatest parents and neither were my friends. Way too much freedom and yes we got into some things to say the least. I backpacked with my kids from the time they were very young. They went on their own when they were about 18 years old.
It was common back then. I was a 70’s kid and backpacked without adults a few times. But we were well supplied, had extras, and didn’t take chances. Also, the weather never surprised us. These poor boys. It breaks my heart for them. I imagine their parents have probably passed on by now and they’re together again.
The parents "believed" it was a supervised hike?! No need to touch base with the supervisors, of course. Stunning that this was allowed to happen with 11 and 12 year-olds along. People complain nowadays that kids are over-supervised which may be the case at times, but over is usually better than under.
It's one thing to be over supervised about doing everyday mundane things and another to be over supervised on going into what could turn into a deadly situation.
Amazing timing with this story. I recently did the hike up to Josephine Saddle and saw the plaque there honoring the boys. What a harrowing ordeal and tragedy. For the record, in nice weather, that is one of the most gorgeous and enjoyable hikes around the Tucson region. I descended via trail going past a natural spring, which made for a lush little mountain oasis with ferns and moss. It is so very different from the Sonoran desert which is mere miles away. For those who love hiking, I definitely recommend Madera Canyon and its trails. Just go on a nice day.
@@outdoordisasters Oh heck no! The 1500 ft elevation climb to Josephine Saddle was enough to kick my middle aged butt. 🤣 However, I am hoping to continue improving my endurance so that an actual summit hike might be possible in a few months.
I am an Arizona native, and was raised going all over Arizona to hike and see the beautiful nature here. I'm shocked that I've never heard of this tragedy until now! What a mournful event! My thoughts are with everyone hurt by the loss of these lives. My heart hurts.
I commented above that I took trail to Josephine Saddle just a few weeks where I saw the memorial sign for the boys. I hadn't heard of it either, so it's quite amazing to have this video tell the story and have the scenery fresh in my head.
So sad!! I've heard this story before, but your version is one of my favorites. I feel so awful for them dying so young. There should have been at least 2 adults for them. What a heart breaking story.
Yo, I live here too and was surprised only hearing this story now. I love these mountains, especially during these hot years. Nice to meet you (sorta) 😊
I'm also in Tucson and have known the story for a few decades. I backpack the ranges all around in all kinds of weather. Pay attention and be prepared.
I have been an avid hiker since my early youth. I've never had an issue with simply turning back when trail, weather, wildlife or schedule conditions turned sketchy. Tragically, some of these youngsters lacked that outlook.
This is by far the best disaster channel. Thank God for the search and rescue people. Such an honorable job. Such a sad story. God bless all the families and RIP to the boys.
RIP to the scouts. But let's remember, the group started their hike too late in the day, and the 3 who died should have turned back. Decisions have consequences. Good report/story.
My son is 11 and his older brother is 16. There's no possible way I'd leave the two of them in the wilderness alone to fend for themselves. I know it was a different time but ... 11? 11! My kid is less than 5 feet tall and way under 100 pounds. And a 16 year old as the eldest! No cell phones, no car for temporary shelter and not even a full tent. It's mind boggling. We've gone camping in the deep mountains plenty of times but we had way more gear than these kids. Also I was very much hoping that since these kids were boy scouts that all of them would survive somehow. I don't know how I'll sleep tonight. Gonna go hug my boys. 😢
Modern people obsessed with being safe and comfortable. When I was 11 I'd have gladly gone along. Boys back then were much more competent and reliable, not being effeminate as they are today. Unfortunately weather prediction wasn't as convenient or reliable back then so they didn't know about the incoming front (or perhaps didn't check?). Freak storms have taken many hikers and campers, even the most prepared and experienced. It's a far more dangerous world today and kids are in more danger in the city. You can only protect them so much. I'd never allow a teenaged girl to go on such a hike.
@BalzarRitchin Weirdest. Comment. Ever. If these boys were competent and reliable, they wouldn't be dead. They were too young then, and they'd be too young now.
I've been out a lot, and the "Red Sky at Morning..." folk-wisdom has never been wrong. When I forged on I always regretted it. A blizzard in the Rockies, an icy trek in Moab that left me hanging off a 200 ft drop, etc. Better to watch the sky than die, seriously.
In my opinion, having 11 and 12 year old's in the group brings in the need for adult supervision, and by adult I mean over age 26 and outdoor savvy. . I would not have allowed my own son to do a trek of this difficulty unsupervised.
@@joshuawhite4330 I wonder WHY they thought that. Did the boys lie about who would supervise, and/or their age? Were the parents okay with two 16year old boys 'supervising' ? Did the parents just assume the boys have supervision?
@@Robnord1probably because they sent out signed permission forms. He said at the start that the one brought up the idea, and several of the boys were interested. So the Scout Master sent out a note that needed signing by the parents… I’d guess by that alone the parents probably thought it was an official Scout activity and that would include supervision… They more than likely had no idea there wouldn’t be any adults present, or those who thought to ask and found out there wasn’t said no but didn’t tell anyone else or forgot…
The first time I hiked this same trail was in June/August of 2010 ..when there are still some heavy monsoon rains from Nogales. The way he described the clouds just coming in and all hell let’s lose was spot on. My buddy and I were lucky and minus being very cold on the soaking trek down we were just fine. I had no idea about this story then. But thinking back to the gear I had, and didn’t have, my skill level and my awareness of the weather that day…we were lucky. I love Tucson and the surrounding mountains…but this also reminds me of how unforgiving the mountains can be…let alone the desert
I live in tucson and have known about this tragedy since I was a kid. I have hiked the Mt baldy trail and camped at Josephines saddle. it really was a freak storm and a poignant reminder to be prepared. the desert can go from blazing hot to below freezing in hours.
The Skyislands are amazing. When I explain to folks about the changing biozones as you go higher in elevation, I tell them that one of the zones is called the Hudsonian biozone. Because the weather and flora is equivalent to the Hudson River Valley in New York. That's above 8000 feet in the mountains around Tucson.
It seems to me its likely these kids were over confident because of the skills taught to them at boy scouts training. They were taught to build shelters and start fires but were they taught about elevation and how storms arrive there and how cold it gets and how quick snow can build up at elevation. How hard it is to walk in snow???? I grew up in the mountains and have spent most my life in the mountains but even I underestimate just how different tempatures and storms are every few thousand feet of elevation you gain everything about the weather changes....unless it was a broken leg that was to blame.....? I can see how unpredictable and devastating that would be.
This doesn't surprise me. In my youth, my family lived just outside a popular national forest in California. Boy Scout groups (led by one or more scoutmasters) periodically became lost while hiking, necessitating the formation of search parties to locate them. Fortunately, I grew up with guidance from an extremely knowledgeable, experienced outdoor enthusiast. Our families backpacked in highly remote areas in the Northwest. Every detail and potential scenario was considered. We never encountered a single problem. To this day, no matter how much I want to proceed, I turn back when trail, weather, wildlife or schedule conditions turn sketchy.
Humboldt is beautiful. Lucky you! I grew up in La Cañada (near Angeles National Forest), Santa Monica and Palos Verdes. Since 1987, I've lived in North Idaho.
@KathleenMcNe I love the panhandle of Idaho! The continental divide..maybe even prettier than Humboldt, but for the no ocean part. That's the only part of Idaho I've ever been through..I don't know exactly where in so cal you were but for Santa Monica. The weather is so amazing down there in the winter! I went downthere for thanks giving and we were in our tee-shirts bicycling and rollerblading on the beach!
@russ549 One of the reasons I left Southern California is because I enjoy living in a true four-season environment. I appreciate all of the seasons, including winter, especially for its beauty and tranquility. I live on Lake Pend Oreille in an area that is a year-round recreational paradise. Plus, it's really nice to live where there are no crowds. My dog and I often have hiking trails all to ourselves.
I've worked on that mountain for years. What a sad history. I met one of the gentlemen who was a rescuer, it was was quite the story. The weather literally changes in minutes, and I've seen so many people heading up that mountain with basically a water bottle, shorts, and Tivas.😢
The leading edge of a cold front may trip on the mountains temporarily halting its advance until high pressure builds to push the cold air over the mountains mixing with the moist lurking on the slopes beneath the summit. High altitude not always in the forecast,
I doubt there would have been a lawsuit. It's possible, I suppose, but back then it would have been less common than it is today. While these hikers were Scouts, there were no adults with the group, and it doesn't seem like an official Scout activity. The only ones to sue would be the other Scout families.
Perhaps w young pple, an adult should have instructed. If the weatherr gets bad ( explain the reasons) quit and plan another day. Or if someone is tired or blisters, discontinue. You have to stay together. One scout should have been designated leader. Or take a vote to quit or continue. They started to late in the day, no spare time for daylight. Sad story. Gallient effort by all.
The scouts review this all the time in their meetings. But, being children they did not fully appreciate the risk. The brain is not fully developed until age 26. Even with all of these deaths , people still take risks and die. Risk takers have more dopamine in their system thanmost, however in a group, if one person is taking a risk the ithers will follow. It is an interesting psychological phenomenon that occurs. That's why we still have groups of people that die participating in risky behavior
Regarding tragedies such as this, I have noticed a consistent theme. Starting a hike in late morning or early afternoon offers much more danger than early morning. So many times I’ve read about similar incidents such as this and the majority of them started the hike too late:(
I suspect the younger kids' parents assumed that Mike's father was going with them. It's intriguing that the father would let his 16 year old son to lead a group of young boys up the freezing mountain.
I would not have let the other kids continue everyone stays together no matter what and I would never leave the ability to stay warm behind always keep the ability to stay warm shelter 3 days worth of water and at least two meals on you
In the late 1980s, two teenage boys would go up Mt. Wrightson without telling their parents. The weather changed and they barely survived. One boy went on to try out for the Army Rangers, the other boy was lost to history.....
I saw "Mt. Baldy" and thought it was the one in southern California. Due to its proximity to the Los Angeles metropolitan area, it's a magnet for people to come get themselves lost, hurt, and meeting their end. But I guess the Arizona peak is also capable of wrecking human plans.
Yeah, a 20 yo UCI student went up SoCal's Mt Baldy at 4pm in the winter, even though her group cancelled early that morning due to impending snow storm. Starting snowing and getting dark right from the start of her solo hike, and she shot and uploaded a video to social media as she ascended the trail. Didn't survive the night.
I just gotta say, i think it's a bit strange that nobody talks about the fact the a bunch of kids should not be camping without adults... It was briefly mentioned but not enough info on it in my opinion.
It's halfway through November and getting toward late fall and they are hiking to 9,400'. Even with fine weather it's getting down into the 30s overnight. Any knowledge concerning possible storms would be crucial. They'd been warned. Lou Burgess observed the red sky that morning @3:08 and he was correct. "Red sky at morning, sailor's warning. Red sky at night, sailor's delight." The adage is generally valid. Unfortunately Mike Early dismissed it with no further discussion, apparently displaying a bit of 'gettheritis', the cause of most private airplane crashes. Warning signs are ignored. That's the crux of the tragedy. No snow, no deaths. Had they gone a different day it would've been fine. How quickly weather can change in November. Their leader didn't heed the warning. The clouds were up there forming and they had no idea. R.I.P. God bless those Boy Scouts.
I fear this hike was not sanctioned by the scout leader. As a scout we were taught never do anything even mildly gruelling with a boy who had not done a gentle version of a hike, as there is psychology, toughness of mind, toughness of feet, legs, arms and skills! Lighting a fire with one match etc. And of course ‘be prepared’. A compass and a map. If you are not comfortable and confident anything pretty much will turn to a mess. I led a hike as part of my scout training with no leader, and cloud came down, with very low visibility. Like 6ft. I was very worried as there were old mine workings leaving cliffs. I kept it calm did some serious map reading with no sighting of course, so an estimated position, and pressed on. We found a fence to follow, so we did that but the person in front had to watch for cliffs. I was watching the map and compass very closely. We had raisins for snacks, high sugar. And water. Everyone, including the young boys were calm, as they knew the routine, even if they did not have the skills. It became a shared challenge. I learned always be prepared and in those days weather was harder to check, so assume that this can happen. I live on a mountain now. Very localised weather.
Another classic OD tail of poor decision making that leads to tragedy. Once I heard you say "15th November" I already knew that was the first potential mistake, and I don't even live in the USA. Although wouldn't normally have been a problem, it seemed to be a hint of uncertain weather conditions. Once they got past Josephine Saddle and spotted gathering clouds that looked menacing, that was the second "sign" of trouble ahead. When they started to feel the cold that was a warning "sign" of not being fully prepared, and when younger party members are suffering with feet issues - that was the time for wise leadership to stop and turn back. Beyond that point on, it was always going to become worse.
My parents visited the mountains frequently. They explained that the weather up there could change frequently. They had a cabin built in the San Bernardino Mountains of southern California, from which we would often take drives and hikes into the forest. One time, they decided to go see the Champion Joshua Tree (biggest known Joshua Tree in the world), which was east of Big Bear. We would venture off the highway onto a dirt road, then get out and hike to the area. But part way through our adventure, my parents noticed puffy white clouds peeking over the mountain ridges. Explaining that storms can take you by surprise in the mountains, they stopped us from going further, and we turned around and headed back to the car. Their big concern was flash floods, as we were making our way along a dry creek. I was disappointed, and thought they were being overly cautious. I still think that the San Bernardinos may be less prone to flash flooding than other more extensive mountain ranges, but I may be wrong. Years later, I took my family there to seek the Champion Joshua Tree, though it was no longer marked on maps. I believe we found its carcass. The Joshua trees still thriving in that dry mountain area were magnificent.
Such a terrible story. If the parents were fooled into believing this was a Scout outing with an adult - then imagine their pain at discovering the deception.
You didnt mention waterproof matches or a flint, carry a bag of dry cotton wool, dry teabags or fire starter bricks natural core type as a fire starter...carry several thermal emergency blankets & a couple thermal sleeping bags ...carry woollen balaclava, gloves, scarf & spare socks ....carry hydrolite sachets, barely sugar, trail mix, banana chips for protein & electrolyte replacement .... whistle, eperb, torch with a siren to alert people
You don’t know real Boy Scouts. At 14 I knew enough and was comfortable to hike alone and was prepared for emergencies. At 16 I hiked with other scouts on some awesome hikes, the adult with us was only a backup, left decisions to us.
20-30 years before that, boys left home at 12, 13, 14.... to set off on their own. Especially in the midwest when families were so poor and the crops failed. Bronco Charlie claimed to be 14 when he was a pony express rider. I remember in the 70's and being a girl, I went hiking in the forest with friends, skiing, horseback riding, camping, all sorts of adventures without parents. Different times. Although my mom once told me that there was just as much crime in comparison to population, you just didn't hear about it. Today, I don't let my grandkids outside of the yard. I am little bit freer with the 2 16 year olds. It's rough. My older kids, their mom's, call me helicopter Grandma. This story was a heartbreaker. But we all need to be reminded t stay safe and what that looks like.
@Patricia-its actually the totally infantilized can't take care of themselves people that have been coming out for the last 50 years are more of the anomaly because people lived like this ever since our Inception, and frankly it's only really in Western countries that people are dealing with helicopter parents into their 30s and don't know how to take care of anything including themselves and definitely don't know how to live in the bush for a night or two.
Devastating chain of events that even with the best laid plans, needed adult supervision and better planning. These boys aren’t at fault, they tried so hard but mother nature is God in those mountains. Be overly prepared. Always.
0 to 100 Celsius Water freezes @ 0 Water boils @ 100 0 to 100 Fahrenheit Is where humans can survive Below 0 & over 100 you need to be prepared to find shelter.
If I had an 11 year old boy who's never hiked before I would never attempt that hike your entire hike plan has to be built around the weakest member of the group if you're going to take new people out it has to be about them if you want to do serious hikes you need to have an entirely serious seasoned group with you if you're going to take children it needs to be a kids trip
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Thank you to subscriber @catherinetester8365 for bringing this story to my attention. And special thanks to Cathy Hufault for her approval and assistance with this story. For a much more detailed account of this ordeal, you can buy the book at the following links:
arizonamtn.com/
www.amazon.com/Death-Clouds-Mt-Baldy-ebook/dp/B00533VPJE/ref=tmm_kin_title_0?ie=UTF8&m=AG56TWVU5XWC2
Nothing worse than the monsoon season in the sonoran desert! 🙄 It Floods the Arizona Everglades, and really makes the seas unforgiving on the gulf of NEW Mexico! 😬
@@billt6116 Really? I think the monsoon storms in southern Arizona are beautiful and can be terrifying at the same time. I've ridden out many storms in the skyislands. One time I was in a whiteout and had lightning strike a tree within 65 feet of my tent in the Huachuca Mountains. Another time, in the Mogollon Mountains of New Mexico, I was in my light when the camp became a lightning strike zone. Both times I was in my tent and knew to sit cross legged on folded up sleeping pads and clothes and keep you head away from the tent poles. It's the ground strikes that will get you before the tree or rock strikes. Be prepared and have the knowledge it takes to survive.
@Galiuros Just because it's a rainstorm, does not make it a monsoon rain! Did it last for 4 to 6 months?... NOT a monsoon... Not even close!! The plants that live in in Arizona desert would not survive a monsoon, And where is all your tropical plants? Arizona DOES NOT GET Monsoon rains, rogue waves, or Tsunamis. They just want to be "overly dramatic" like a bunch of Karen's! Just ask John McCain's daughter!!
@@Galiuroswow i did not know that about lightning 😮
Where were the adults?? These were young boys. Who were responsible?????
One key lesson here is that those that turned back early made it. Those who pressed on didn't. Something to keep in mind when on a long hike, especially at altitude.
As an avid, longtime hiker since my early youth, I've never had an issue with simply turning back when trail, weather or wildlife conditions turn sketchy.
@@KathleenMcNe
Safety 1st. No sense taking chances. There's always tomorrow.
@paul9156c My thought exactly.
Classic Summit Fever!!!
I disagree. The scouts did very little wrong. Sure, it’s getting dark. But they had TWO flashlight!
Had it not for the snow storm, they would have gotten down late at night. Wet, cold, exhausted but alive. Who grew up on the desert think about snow storm? They died as a result of a freak weather event.
Their decision was as good as what’s expected of them. Second guessing their decision to not turn around is no different from criticizing someone who got on an old plane which later crashed. They didn’t know what to look for. If any blame need to be placed, it’s the scout training of the adults living in Arizona not teaching these kids snow can happen in the mountain of AZ!
Good story though
I’ve been on that trail many times.
First time I came upon the plaque honoring their disaster, I cried.
Thank you OD 🙏🏼
There is a case in Brazil of a scout boy that disappeared in 1985 on Pico dos Marins. His name was Marco Aurelio, he was only 15 and had a twin brother that still alive, but did not go to the mountian that day.His group was going up the mountain as a form of ceremony of the scouts, when they were almost at the top one of them sprained his ankle and could not continue, he could not walk so they had to carry him with an improvised stretcher. Then Marco Aurelio asked for the scout's chief if he could go down the mountain ahead of them to search for help, the chief accepted because he trusted the boy and gave him a whistle and a chalk to draw where he was passing through. The last place they saw his drawing was at a rock called "The Portal" which had a narrow pass and would be too hard to carry the injured boy through there, then they took a trail to the right because the chief thought it would end in the same direction of the normal trail. They took hours to down the mountian because of that decision and arrived at the base camp at night, for their surprise Marco Aureio was not there and nobody there has seen him. The chief of the scouts went back to the mountain to search for the boy, but after a lot of effort he was not found. At midnight they heard a whistle and went outside to check, then they saw some sort of lights coming from the woods , then it disappeared. The boy's father was an influent journalist and contacted the press to spread news about his lost boy, then police, firefighters and even the army were called to help searching the boy, they dit it for several days and he was not found until these days. Recently they excavated one of the houses from the basecamp searching for his body suspecting that the land owners had killed him, but nothing was found.
I've been to Pico dos Marins and can affirm that is a dangerous place, even for a 2.421m mountain, the weather in that region is unstable and the high part of the mountain is easy to get lost. Some years ago a french runner got lost there and his body was found 20 days later, the death cause was hypothermia and yes, there is cold weather in Brazil besides not snowing and it can kill you. I believe Marco Aurelio died falling into some sort of hole that is common in that mountain, this is why his body was never found. Some people think he was kidnapped and still alive without memories, others think he was abducted. I feel sorry for his father that is an old man nowedays and could never discovered what happened to his son.
@@LabregoBucolico Yes- probably fallen into a hole. His poor family.
Oh my goodness, what a tragic story
I am so thrilled to see that you selected this to add to your wonderful series and honored for the mention.
Thank you so much for bringing this to my attention! I was gripped by this story as soon as you mentioned it to me and been working on it ever since. Well done!
I once started a hike at 1 pm, when I was as naive as these kids. Today I always plan them so I summit at noon, like a proper mountaineer should. The way up may be the hard part, but the way down is the dangerous part - you always want plenty of time, daylight and energy for it. Also this story is a reminder that modern weather forecast has saved countless lives.
VERY TRUE! Almost all fatalities happen on the descent.
Another jaw dropping video from OD.. This channel is like no other. Much respect for the work it takes to get these (otherwise) forgotten stories told.
Thank you!!!
Your kind words are so appreciated. Thankk you!
Condolences to all his family it's just heartbreaking
Wow, what a story,
R.I.P. Scouts…
I've lived in North Dakota most of my life. I've seen so many blizzards I can't even count them.
But when I was 18 years old I was working in Washington State planting trees near Mount Saint Helens. We got there about 2 months after it blew.
We had a crew of about 26 men. Our camp was on Mount Adams. Bird Creek flowed past our sauna tent.
We worked long days and never took days off. Until it snowed so much, we had to take a week off. Henry, from Costa Rica, and myself wore snowshoes to hike the four miles to a cabin, stocked with supplies. Without snowshoes we couldn't have made it. The snow was up to our waist.
I was used to the cold but Henry...well, he got an education. I still remember him wearing a poncho. Lol.
It was well worth the hike and I became hooked on the lifestyle. I learned how to work with fire to survive in the wilderness. Now I'm 62 years old and I live in a wilderness camper! It's got a wood stove and it's so hot right now I got the door open!
Learning how to bivouac can save your life. The mountains are not hard to survive because there's plenty of resources to keep you warm. Knowing how to access them is key. I've been stranded in a few blizzards and I've learned how to survive. But I never want to be cocky. My cousin froze to death in the parking lot of a shopping mall. I remember that night because it was -25 degrees. And I was driving in the middle of the night. I remember thinking it could have been me. Don't take anything for granted. And yes if there's a storm coming, seek shelter. Turning around can save your life.
My dad was in Arizona one winter visiting my grandparents. Driving back he ran into a snowstorm in South Dakota. His car wasn't winterized and the block froze. But he had a mummy bag. Yeah the kind they have in the military. He stayed in that bag for 3 days until he got rescued. Sleeping bags can save your life no doubt about it. I have a slumberjack sleeping bag with quailofil I've had it a long time but it's rated at 35 below I believe. It's enough to keep your core body temperature where it should be.
But you know, snow was a rare event on this mountain and I presume that's why they weren't prepared.
The old saying "it's better to have it and not need it then need it and not have it" , has served me well. I've been unprepared a few times and it can be a costly mistake.
I pray that these boys are with Jesus in peace.
It began snowing today here in AZ (in the White Mountains).. First time this year. I ventured out in my keen tennis shoes thinking...oh it's not gonna snow! As soon as I got home all the summer clothes were packed away and the winter duds came out!!! LOL Always be prepared! Thanks again for a thrilling, even tho sad, video. My fix is satisfied! ❤💋
I was surprised as well .. I live in tombstone… it started raining then snow.. it happens fast
Well done, OD. Those boys did the best they could, with what they had, where they were. As you said, Mother Nature doesn't care.
I am utterly BAFFLED by John Erly’s decision--when he came across the lone, younger Boy Scout who was not his son, and who was on his way back to the Lodge clearly to report that disaster had befallen their hiking group during the night--I am **utterly baffled** by Erly’s irrational, seemingly “crazed” decision to have the boy turn around and lead him back up to the base camp, where the less “rash” members of the group were. WHY DIDN’T HE **IMMEDIATELY** HEAD BACK TO THE LODGE THE VERY INSTANT THE BOY TOLD HIM ABOUT THE METEOROLOGICAL DISASTER THAT HAD BEFALLEN THE HIKING GROUP; REPORTED THE EMERGENCY TO BOTH THE SHERIFF AND THE PARK SERVICE; AND HAVE THEM ARRANGE A **HELICOPTER SEARCH** FOR THE MISSING BOYS--rather than stupidly letting his obvious 1950’s “machismo” rule the day and have him WASTE PRECIOUS HOURS DURING WHICH THE BOYS **COULD** HAVE BEEN SEARCHED FOR FROM THE SKY, AS HE INSTEAD **USELESSLY** TRIED TO “BE A HERO” AND ATTEMPTED IN VAIN FOR A CONSIDERABLE TIME TO SAVE THE LOST BOYS HIMSELF BY CLIMBING UP THE SLOPES OF A MOUNTAIN COVERED IN 2-3 ft of snow, **wearing only a pair of stupid, useless, inappropriate MOCCASINS**!!!
Even *had* John Erly found the lost boys himself, **IN WHAT CONCEIVABLE WAY MIGHT HE HAVE PRACTICALLY HELPED THEM**?!?!?!?!? He had no supplies; no food; no radio; no medical supplies; and no blankets, coats, or sleeping bags to help keep the boys warm!
I *recognise* that in emergencies, people often panic and consequently act illogically. Yet this man’s son’s life was at stake: sometimes it’s far better to step back, regain one’s composure, and think calmly about what the best course of action to take in an emergency, rather than give in to the hysterical need to feel one is “taking action” every second.
WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING ABOUT SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED WELL OVER HALF A CENTURY AGO?!
I'm sure he thought about fateful decision every night until the day he died, and had shame every time he dealt with the other parents, knowing he as the driver and point of collection made the hike possible. Six kids, no adult. Overnight to summit at 9,500 ft during winter. What can go wrong.
Good morning JR,
This was a really gripping story, but incredibly sad at the same time. I can't imagine what was going through David, Mike and Michael's minds during the freak snowstorm on Baldy, they must've been worried every second but trying to remain calm and not panic all at the same time. Although this happened a long time ago my heart goes out to their families and loved ones, and may David, Mike and Michael rest in peace 🙏🕊️
♥♥♥
@@outdoordisasters❤️❤️❤️🤗🤗🤗
We always had adults hiking with us when I was in the Boy Scouts. They of course, had the sense to stop or turn back when we needed to while us kids would have just kept going. And one time that I remember they stopped us very early in the day. We were supposed to meet another troop who were coming in from the other direction. A storm was brewing and that is why we stopped, apparently the other troop still kept going and when they reached the top of the pass a lightening storm started up and a couple of scouts were hit. I don’t know how our scout master found out but he knew that rescue helicopters had been sent for the kids on the pass. We would have been in that same place if the scout master had not stopped us. This might be another story for you to find, it was in the late 1960’s on the backside of Mount Whitney area. I can only find a reference to one in 2015 on Google. The rescue Helicopter came from China Lake Navel Weapons Center along with their mountain rescue along with Inyo County Mountain Recue.
Ty for this story! I'm shocked that no adults accompanied the boys! RIP😢
Back in those days kids weren’t helicopter parented. I find it unfortunate too that no one more experienced was with them
I grew up on a ranch in Colorado in the mountains. I routinely wandering out into our nearby forest to explore. Maybe risky, but I'm still here. Different time, different ways of raising kids.
(if I had kids, I'd probably accompany them on hikes like that, though)
@johnchedsey1306 yes, I imagine kids were more resilient then. I had more freedom than I gave my kids. The world had changed and not for the better.
When I was 12 years old my friends and I would go camping and backpacking alone. This would be in the early 70s. To be honest my parents were not the greatest parents and neither were my friends. Way too much freedom and yes we got into some things to say the least. I backpacked with my kids from the time they were very young. They went on their own when they were about 18 years old.
It was common back then. I was a 70’s kid and backpacked without adults a few times. But we were well supplied, had extras, and didn’t take chances. Also, the weather never surprised us. These poor boys. It breaks my heart for them. I imagine their parents have probably passed on by now and they’re together again.
The parents "believed" it was a supervised hike?! No need to touch base with the supervisors, of course. Stunning that this was allowed to happen with 11 and 12 year-olds along. People complain nowadays that kids are over-supervised which may be the case at times, but over is usually better than under.
It's one thing to be over supervised about doing everyday mundane things and another to be over supervised on going into what could turn into a deadly situation.
Amazing timing with this story. I recently did the hike up to Josephine Saddle and saw the plaque there honoring the boys. What a harrowing ordeal and tragedy.
For the record, in nice weather, that is one of the most gorgeous and enjoyable hikes around the Tucson region. I descended via trail going past a natural spring, which made for a lush little mountain oasis with ferns and moss. It is so very different from the Sonoran desert which is mere miles away. For those who love hiking, I definitely recommend Madera Canyon and its trails. Just go on a nice day.
Nice John, great timing! Did you reach the summit?
@@outdoordisasters Oh heck no! The 1500 ft elevation climb to Josephine Saddle was enough to kick my middle aged butt. 🤣
However, I am hoping to continue improving my endurance so that an actual summit hike might be possible in a few months.
Good morning J.R.! Getting ready to watch. Can't wait! Thank you so much, as always, and God bless 🙏❤️
I am an Arizona native, and was raised going all over Arizona to hike and see the beautiful nature here. I'm shocked that I've never heard of this tragedy until now! What a mournful event! My thoughts are with everyone hurt by the loss of these lives. My heart hurts.
I commented above that I took trail to Josephine Saddle just a few weeks where I saw the memorial sign for the boys. I hadn't heard of it either, so it's quite amazing to have this video tell the story and have the scenery fresh in my head.
The book about this incident is an I interesting read.
So sad!! I've heard this story before, but your version is one of my favorites. I feel so awful for them dying so young. There should have been at least 2 adults for them. What a heart breaking story.
Thank you Mika! Btw who else did this story? I was under the impression this is a RUclips first for this one.
Man, I live in Tucson and have been to Madeira canyon many times..and have never heard this story. Thank you.
Yo, I live here too and was surprised only hearing this story now. I love these mountains, especially during these hot years. Nice to meet you (sorta) 😊
I'm also in Tucson and have known the story for a few decades. I backpack the ranges all around in all kinds of weather. Pay attention and be prepared.
I have been an avid hiker since my early youth. I've never had an issue with simply turning back when trail, weather, wildlife or schedule conditions turned sketchy. Tragically, some of these youngsters lacked that outlook.
So true, but unfortunately many adults will die from this same issue, “summit fever”😢
This is by far the best disaster channel. Thank God for the search and rescue people. Such an honorable job. Such a sad story. God bless all the families and RIP to the boys.
Thank you so much my friend!
RIP to the scouts. But let's remember, the group started their hike too late in the day, and the 3 who died should have turned back. Decisions have consequences. Good report/story.
My son is 11 and his older brother is 16. There's no possible way I'd leave the two of them in the wilderness alone to fend for themselves. I know it was a different time but ... 11? 11! My kid is less than 5 feet tall and way under 100 pounds. And a 16 year old as the eldest! No cell phones, no car for temporary shelter and not even a full tent. It's mind boggling. We've gone camping in the deep mountains plenty of times but we had way more gear than these kids.
Also I was very much hoping that since these kids were boy scouts that all of them would survive somehow. I don't know how I'll sleep tonight. Gonna go hug my boys. 😢
Modern people obsessed with being safe and comfortable. When I was 11 I'd have gladly gone along. Boys back then were much more competent and reliable, not being effeminate as they are today. Unfortunately weather prediction wasn't as convenient or reliable back then so they didn't know about the incoming front (or perhaps didn't check?). Freak storms have taken many hikers and campers, even the most prepared and experienced. It's a far more dangerous world today and kids are in more danger in the city. You can only protect them so much. I'd never allow a teenaged girl to go on such a hike.
@BalzarRitchin Weirdest. Comment. Ever. If these boys were competent and reliable, they wouldn't be dead. They were too young then, and they'd be too young now.
@@BalzarRitchinew yuck
@@goingketo7584literally different times. How do you think early humans survived back then?
Critical advise when hiking from an experienced hiker: If you're hiking and questioning, if you should stop and turn back. ALWAYS TURN BACK!!!
Hello my friend!! Good to hear from you. Can’t wait to watch.
I've been out a lot, and the "Red Sky at Morning..." folk-wisdom has never been wrong. When I forged on I always regretted it. A blizzard in the Rockies, an icy trek in Moab that left me hanging off a 200 ft drop, etc. Better to watch the sky than die, seriously.
Wow I can't watch it now but I'm looking forward to it as soon as I get off work❤
Great Job as always..
In my opinion, having 11 and 12 year old's in the group brings in the need for adult supervision, and by adult I mean over age 26 and outdoor savvy. . I would not have allowed my own son to do a trek of this difficulty unsupervised.
I mean he did say the parents thought they were being supervised
@@joshuawhite4330 I wonder WHY they thought that.
Did the boys lie about who would supervise, and/or their age?
Were the parents okay with two 16year old boys 'supervising' ?
Did the parents just assume the boys have supervision?
It was a different time! And kids these days are way overprotected.
@@Robnord1probably because they sent out signed permission forms. He said at the start that the one brought up the idea, and several of the boys were interested. So the Scout Master sent out a note that needed signing by the parents…
I’d guess by that alone the parents probably thought it was an official Scout activity and that would include supervision…
They more than likely had no idea there wouldn’t be any adults present, or those who thought to ask and found out there wasn’t said no but didn’t tell anyone else or forgot…
This tragic story, although decades old, drove me almost to tears, and I'm not a quick wheeper.
The first time I hiked this same trail was in June/August of 2010 ..when there are still some heavy monsoon rains from Nogales. The way he described the clouds just coming in and all hell let’s lose was spot on. My buddy and I were lucky and minus being very cold on the soaking trek down we were just fine. I had no idea about this story then. But thinking back to the gear I had, and didn’t have, my skill level and my awareness of the weather that day…we were lucky. I love Tucson and the surrounding mountains…but this also reminds me of how unforgiving the mountains can be…let alone the desert
I live in tucson and have known about this tragedy since I was a kid. I have hiked the Mt baldy trail and camped at Josephines saddle. it really was a freak storm and a poignant reminder to be prepared. the desert can go from blazing hot to below freezing in hours.
The Skyislands are amazing. When I explain to folks about the changing biozones as you go higher in elevation, I tell them that one of the zones is called the Hudsonian biozone. Because the weather and flora is equivalent to the Hudson River Valley in New York. That's above 8000 feet in the mountains around Tucson.
I live in Tucson and have been up in these mountains a lot. Its such a wonderful place, but our storms can be very unpredictable!
I'm glad you conclude with some sensible warnings.
God Bless our Boy Scouts 🙏
It seems to me its likely these kids were over confident because of the skills taught to them at boy scouts training. They were taught to build shelters and start fires but were they taught about elevation and how storms arrive there and how cold it gets and how quick snow can build up at elevation. How hard it is to walk in snow???? I grew up in the mountains and have spent most my life in the mountains but even I underestimate just how different tempatures and storms are every few thousand feet of elevation you gain everything about the weather changes....unless it was a broken leg that was to blame.....? I can see how unpredictable and devastating that would be.
This doesn't surprise me. In my youth, my family lived just outside a popular national forest in California. Boy Scout groups (led by one or more scoutmasters) periodically became lost while hiking, necessitating the formation of search parties to locate them. Fortunately, I grew up with guidance from an extremely knowledgeable, experienced outdoor enthusiast. Our families backpacked in highly remote areas in the Northwest. Every detail and potential scenario was considered. We never encountered a single problem. To this day, no matter how much I want to proceed, I turn back when trail, weather, wildlife or schedule conditions turn sketchy.
@KathleenMcNe I grew up in northern California too! I wonder if we are from the same area? I'm from Humboldt. How about you?
Humboldt is beautiful. Lucky you! I grew up in La Cañada (near Angeles National Forest), Santa Monica and Palos Verdes. Since 1987, I've lived in North Idaho.
@KathleenMcNe I love the panhandle of Idaho! The continental divide..maybe even prettier than Humboldt, but for the no ocean part. That's the only part of Idaho I've ever been through..I don't know exactly where in so cal you were but for Santa Monica. The weather is so amazing down there in the winter! I went downthere for thanks giving and we were in our tee-shirts bicycling and rollerblading on the beach!
@russ549 One of the reasons I left Southern California is because I enjoy living in a true four-season environment. I appreciate all of the seasons, including winter, especially for its beauty and tranquility. I live on Lake Pend Oreille in an area that is a year-round recreational paradise. Plus, it's really nice to live where there are no crowds. My dog and I often have hiking trails all to ourselves.
always include a shelter element. pocho tarp thick plastic tent fly. it makes all the difference
Carrying the 10 Essentials on any length of hike can save your life.
I live at the base of this mountian and the Santa Rita range. It is beautiful!!! Hiked it recently during summer and was turned back by a storm.
Excellent Tell!🎉
I've worked on that mountain for years. What a sad history. I met one of the gentlemen who was a rescuer, it was was quite the story. The weather literally changes in minutes, and I've seen so many people heading up that mountain with basically a water bottle, shorts, and Tivas.😢
Prayers to the families and searchers. Blessings
EXCELLENT site.
🙏
Now that I’m older, I like learning my lessons the easy way. I don’t want to screw up and have to deal with the trouble.
😞 I have lived through some natural disasters and being cold absolutely consumes your mind and takes everything from you..
Those babies suffered 😞
Those poor boys. They tried and did the right things! Rest in peace boys.
Tragic. Prayers for family, friends, and search parties.
This is very sad. Those poor boys.
So sad.
Rest, in peace. You, were so brave.
Excellent report. New subscribed.
The guy who dropped the boys off unsupervised and a 30-minute hike short of the trailhead - wow.
The leading edge of a cold front may trip on the mountains temporarily halting its advance until high pressure builds to push the cold air over the mountains mixing with the moist lurking on the slopes beneath the summit. High altitude not always in the forecast,
This reminds me of the statement about all the bodies up on Everest were once really ambitious people
What on earth were these young, inexperienced kids doing up there? Only 2 had hiked before. Leaving to climb at 1pm, super mistake
Such a sad story. Despite the tragedy, those boys where resourceful.
It seems the saying, 'it is not one thing that causes disasters or accidents, it is a series of small ones, added together' that do.
Poor Ronnie man. Thats scary man.
Such a tragedy. I wonder if there was a lawsuit. Great job with the video.
I doubt there would have been a lawsuit. It's possible, I suppose, but back then it would have been less common than it is today. While these hikers were Scouts, there were no adults with the group, and it doesn't seem like an official Scout activity. The only ones to sue would be the other Scout families.
What a sad story...
The peak is ALWAYS higher than it seems , ALWAYS .....
Perhaps w young pple, an adult should have instructed. If the weatherr gets bad ( explain the reasons) quit and plan another day. Or if someone is tired or blisters, discontinue. You have to stay together. One scout should have been designated leader. Or take a vote to quit or continue.
They started to late in the day, no spare time for daylight. Sad story. Gallient effort by all.
The scouts review this all the time in their meetings. But, being children they did not fully appreciate the risk. The brain is not fully developed until age 26. Even with all of these deaths , people still take risks and die. Risk takers have more dopamine in their system thanmost, however in a group, if one person is taking a risk the ithers will follow. It is an interesting psychological phenomenon that occurs. That's why we still have groups of people that die participating in risky behavior
Thank you, Jay Little Pallo, horse of rancher Mike Knagge. Animals know.
Regarding tragedies such as this, I have noticed a consistent theme. Starting a hike in late morning or early afternoon offers much more danger than early morning. So many times I’ve read about similar incidents such as this and the majority of them started the hike too late:(
I suspect the younger kids' parents assumed that Mike's father was going with them. It's intriguing that the father would let his 16 year old son to lead a group of young boys up the freezing mountain.
Cautionary stories exist for a reason. Hard learned lessons are real.
I would not have let the other kids continue everyone stays together no matter what and I would never leave the ability to stay warm behind always keep the ability to stay warm shelter 3 days worth of water and at least two meals on you
In the late 1980s, two teenage boys would go up Mt. Wrightson without telling their parents. The weather changed and they barely survived. One boy went on to try out for the Army Rangers, the other boy was lost to history.....
I saw "Mt. Baldy" and thought it was the one in southern California. Due to its proximity to the Los Angeles metropolitan area, it's a magnet for people to come get themselves lost, hurt, and meeting their end. But I guess the Arizona peak is also capable of wrecking human plans.
Yeah, a 20 yo UCI student went up SoCal's Mt Baldy at 4pm in the winter, even though her group cancelled early that morning due to impending snow storm. Starting snowing and getting dark right from the start of her solo hike, and she shot and uploaded a video to social media as she ascended the trail. Didn't survive the night.
I can't imagine this hike could occur today without a sensible adult accompanying a scout troop.
I just gotta say, i think it's a bit strange that nobody talks about the fact the a bunch of kids should not be camping without adults... It was briefly mentioned but not enough info on it in my opinion.
MID NOVEMBER ???? TOO CLOSE TO WINTER !!!!
Red sky at night sailor delight, red sky in the morning sailor take warning... never fails
It's halfway through November and getting toward late fall and they are hiking to 9,400'. Even with fine weather it's getting down into the 30s overnight. Any knowledge concerning possible storms would be crucial. They'd been warned. Lou Burgess observed the red sky that morning @3:08 and he was correct. "Red sky at morning, sailor's warning. Red sky at night, sailor's delight." The adage is generally valid. Unfortunately Mike Early dismissed it with no further discussion, apparently displaying a bit of 'gettheritis', the cause of most private airplane crashes. Warning signs are ignored. That's the crux of the tragedy. No snow, no deaths. Had they gone a different day it would've been fine. How quickly weather can change in November. Their leader didn't heed the warning. The clouds were up there forming and they had no idea. R.I.P. God bless those Boy Scouts.
Been there many times, so sad.
A $3 space blanket fits in your back pocket. Carry one everywhere.
A sixteen year old in charge . Things were different back in those days
Sad story…
I fear this hike was not sanctioned by the scout leader. As a scout we were taught never do anything even mildly gruelling with a boy who had not done a gentle version of a hike, as there is psychology, toughness of mind, toughness of feet, legs, arms and skills! Lighting a fire with one match etc. And of course ‘be prepared’. A compass and a map. If you are not comfortable and confident anything pretty much will turn to a mess. I led a hike as part of my scout training with no leader, and cloud came down, with very low visibility. Like 6ft. I was very worried as there were old mine workings leaving cliffs. I kept it calm did some serious map reading with no sighting of course, so an estimated position, and pressed on. We found a fence to follow, so we did that but the person in front had to watch for cliffs. I was watching the map and compass very closely. We had raisins for snacks, high sugar. And water. Everyone, including the young boys were calm, as they knew the routine, even if they did not have the skills. It became a shared challenge. I learned always be prepared and in those days weather was harder to check, so assume that this can happen. I live on a mountain now. Very localised weather.
Another classic OD tail of poor decision making that leads to tragedy. Once I heard you say "15th November" I already knew that was the first potential mistake, and I don't even live in the USA. Although wouldn't normally have been a problem, it seemed to be a hint of uncertain weather conditions. Once they got past Josephine Saddle and spotted gathering clouds that looked menacing, that was the second "sign" of trouble ahead.
When they started to feel the cold that was a warning "sign" of not being fully prepared, and when younger party members are suffering with feet issues - that was the time for wise leadership to stop and turn back. Beyond that point on, it was always going to become worse.
My parents visited the mountains frequently. They explained that the weather up there could change frequently. They had a cabin built in the San Bernardino Mountains of southern California, from which we would often take drives and hikes into the forest.
One time, they decided to go see the Champion Joshua Tree (biggest known Joshua Tree in the world), which was east of Big Bear. We would venture off the highway onto a dirt road, then get out and hike to the area. But part way through our adventure, my parents noticed puffy white clouds peeking over the mountain ridges. Explaining that storms can take you by surprise in the mountains, they stopped us from going further, and we turned around and headed back to the car. Their big concern was flash floods, as we were making our way along a dry creek.
I was disappointed, and thought they were being overly cautious. I still think that the San Bernardinos may be less prone to flash flooding than other more extensive mountain ranges, but I may be wrong. Years later, I took my family there to seek the Champion Joshua Tree, though it was no longer marked on maps. I believe we found its carcass. The Joshua trees still thriving in that dry mountain area were magnificent.
Such a terrible story. If the parents were fooled into believing this was a Scout outing with an adult - then imagine their pain at discovering the deception.
You didnt mention waterproof matches or a flint, carry a bag of dry cotton wool, dry teabags or fire starter bricks natural core type as a fire starter...carry several thermal emergency blankets & a couple thermal sleeping bags ...carry woollen balaclava, gloves, scarf & spare socks ....carry hydrolite sachets, barely sugar, trail mix, banana chips for protein & electrolyte replacement .... whistle, eperb, torch with a siren to alert people
The Essential 10. Minimum for any hike.
Thank you!
Violation of Boy scouts' first rule: Be Prepared!
“By all accounts it was a perfect day for hiking.” Famous last words. Isn’t hiking fun? NO!
John 3,16 ❤
something very sad about this story.
Parents must hold some responsibility for letting such young children out on there own
These kids should of had adults experienced climbers with them rip young 🙏 angels
And what place did they go to that was so much better?
Poor kids.
The parents trust their eleven and twelve years old to a couple of teenagers to climb mountains ? Wow 😮
😢😢😢
Only 58' parents would 😢let their kids alone on a hike
Bingo Gal, a sad thing 😢
You don’t know real Boy Scouts. At 14 I knew enough and was comfortable to hike alone and was prepared for emergencies. At 16 I hiked with other scouts on some awesome hikes, the adult with us was only a backup, left decisions to us.
20-30 years before that, boys left home at 12, 13, 14.... to set off on their own. Especially in the midwest when families were so poor and the crops failed. Bronco Charlie claimed to be 14 when he was a pony express rider. I remember in the 70's and being a girl, I went hiking in the forest with friends, skiing, horseback riding, camping, all sorts of adventures without parents. Different times. Although my mom once told me that there was just as much crime in comparison to population, you just didn't hear about it. Today, I don't let my grandkids outside of the yard. I am little bit freer with the 2 16 year olds. It's rough. My older kids, their mom's, call me helicopter Grandma. This story was a heartbreaker. But we all need to be reminded t stay safe and what that looks like.
@Patricia-its actually the totally infantilized can't take care of themselves people that have been coming out for the last 50 years are more of the anomaly because people lived like this ever since our Inception, and frankly it's only really in Western countries that people are dealing with helicopter parents into their 30s and don't know how to take care of anything including themselves and definitely don't know how to live in the bush for a night or two.
It's better than the over coddled, over protected basket case kids of today...
Devastating chain of events that even with the best laid plans, needed adult supervision and better planning. These boys aren’t at fault, they tried so hard but mother nature is God in those mountains. Be overly prepared. Always.
Who in the hell goes hiking to a mountain in November
0 to 100 Celsius
Water freezes @ 0
Water boils @ 100
0 to 100 Fahrenheit
Is where humans can survive
Below 0 & over 100 you need to be prepared to find shelter.
I like this channels stories but the music becomes annoying.
So happy my dad made me play sports rather than boy scouts.
Buncha Chester’s
If I had an 11 year old boy who's never hiked before I would never attempt that hike your entire hike plan has to be built around the weakest member of the group if you're going to take new people out it has to be about them if you want to do serious hikes you need to have an entirely serious seasoned group with you if you're going to take children it needs to be a kids trip
Hell no I'd let my kids do this.