Ranking EVERY Feat in D&D 5e: Racial Feats in Xanathar's
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- Опубликовано: 6 июл 2024
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Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
0:39 Bountiful Luck (36)
1:37 Dragon Fear (53)
2:23 Dragon Hide (37)
3:16 Drow High Magic (41)
4:32 Dwarven Fortitude (39)
5:19 Elven Accuracy (74)
6:08 Fade Away (34)
6:51 Fey Teleportation (38)
7:44 Flames of Phlegethos (35)
8:55 Infernal Constitution (54)
9:38 Orcish Fury (32)
10:38 Prodigy (24)
11:30 Second Chance (43)
12:20 Squat Nimbleness (39)
12:58 Wood Elf Magic (33) 
Игры
Fey Teleportation: He does exactly what I do.
Fey Touched: But better.
I mean.. the misty step on a short rest could be better than using slots for it for some people. A fey teleporting Fighter for example. (in the case where Echo Knight isn't on the table).
@@eraz0rheadIf you need to teleport that much you would choose another type of elf (Eladrin, Shadar-kai or Astral) . It is way more useful to pick Fey Touched and get a free first level spell like bless or hex
@@eraz0rhead As far as I'm able to tell, the characters that *might* benefit a bit more from Fey Teleportation over Fey Touched are High Elf Arcane Archers, Psi Warriors, and maybe Swashbucklers. Any class or subclass that gets any spell slots at all is going to benefit more from Fey Touched, since it also gives an additional first level spell, as will any class or subclass that would get more of a benefit out of increasing Wisdom over Intelligence or Charisma, since Fey Touched can boost Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma, whereas Fey Teleportation can only do Intelligence or Charisma.
@@CivilWarMan Fey Teleportation is also good on warlocks as well since they don't have spell slots to waste and already have an incentive for short rests. They don't get the L1 spell but they will likely be able to misty step at least twice a day
@@elliotbryant3459 If we assume a level 4 Warlock, taking 2 short rests per long rest, the one who takes Fey Teleportation can Misty Step 3 times per long rest, while the one who takes Fey Touched can only do it for free once. However, those 3 Misty Steps can only be done once per short rest, so if the Fey Teleportation Warlock needs to Misty Step a second time before they can rest, they still need to invest one of their known spells into Misty Step. So the Fey Touched Warlock gets fewer free castings of Misty Step, but 2 more spells known, because they get the free 1st level spell, but they also don't need to pick up Misty Step as a known spell to cast it more often. And if we are at the point of using spell slots, the Warlock who takes Fey Teleportation can Misty Step between 3-9 times per day, while the Fey Touched Warlock can only do it between 1-7, but also gets an additional 1st level spell they can cast once for free.
So the best I can say is that if you start off with the restriction of playing a High Elf Warlock, Fey Teleportation nets you a marginal increase in the number of times you can potentially Misty Step, but little flexibility on when you can Misty Step if you don't use spell slots for it, or less flexibility on your known spells if you do use spell slots for it. But another thing to bear in mind is that you can take Fey Touched for your Variant Human or Custom Lineage feat, and be Misty Stepping from level 1, whereas you need to be at least level 4 for Fey Teleportation due to being restricted to High Elf. Or you can take Fey Touched at level 4 as an Eladrin, effectively getting 3 free Misty Steps (two of them having an extra effect attached) that you can use at *any* point of the day, instead of being limited to one per short rest, that then increases to 4 free Misty Steps when you hit level 5.
And unfortunately, that's one of the *best* arguments for Fey Teleportation. It's not really an exaggeration to say that Fey Touched and the newer Elf variants made Fey Teleportation obsolete.
Give us justice! This will not stand! It is Flames of PhleGethos, not PhleTHegos!
I love this lineup of feat tier rankings, probably my most anticipated of your series ever since the subclass rankings! What a lovely day to be a TM patreon subscriber. Cheers!
At least he got all the letters... eh... 9 points? Better than a ribbon.
It really hurts him not having the addition of putting them in the right order like modern pronunciations.
But it does put this pronunciation all the way at the bottom of C tier. Not as bad as it could be, but not great either.
Levio~sa!
@@RokuroCarisu Google actually asked me if I wanted to translate that, and it was "Levi~sa!"
@@michaeljpastor Google AI is utter crap.
I will say as a tiefling player, i *love* infernal constitution, even the damage resistances alone, poison and cold? On top of the tieflings innate fire resistance comes up so often in the campaigns ive played in that its one of my favourite, and it just works on any tiefling character due to the +1 con! Absolutely love it 😁
Even if it isn't much better then an ASI at 50 point Infernal Constitution 54 but i say about 59 as it is so much more often as poison probably the most common damage type & so more relevant then mounted combat.
Regardless of score I say Infernal constitution is a must on a Tiefling as it is one of the few feats that is thematically appropriate.
Mind I rarely play Tiefling but I'm always happy when some one plays a Tiefling rather then another knife ear Elf.
Fact I have been in an all Elf party but myself multiple times is annoying.
I usual personally prefer to play small races & to this day no one has humoured me with an all short party.
Honestly being small size or a dwarf makes the world & threats seem bigger- more Threatening though effectively the same.
Everyone want to play the perfect elf or or them + which gets tiresome.
Most play human which I don't mind as having few fantasy races can make magic & the fantastical seem rare
Really the most played are Elf's & play 1/2 elf's if treated as one which they really are as player select 1/2 elf when indecisive about being human or elf.
Tiefling is popular like half orc or dragonborn but I have never had a party of any mentioned.
1/2 the party or more role up an Elf with a Bow & yet they argue over how their discount Legolas is some how better then each other's.
Eleven accuracy is strong but I can't stand it as it makes every Elf play almost the same with a ranged weapons.
I genuinely enjoyed the one fella that played a high elf wizard which I have done when the party insisted we were all elf's so played elf wizard as a r@cist elitist that saw the 1/2 blood 1/2 elf's as impure & the other elf's as lower status while being the many Great grand Uncle of of one of the elf's who called his mother a every word under the sun.
Most play an Elf as little older then a child well under 200 but I went the full whamy & made him shy of 1000 years which since elf's die around 700 years old the Dm agreed to make me higher level at the cost that after every combat i had to role D 100 with a possibility of a heart attack on 1 as well as other detrimental effects.
Dm liked me but the party couldn't stand me till they realized generic elf is boring in a TTRPG as you can do anything.
In short I enjoy ''Infernal constitution'' but can't stand eleven accuracy as a racial feat for it makes Elves even more 1 dimensional then they already are!
Let me guess ranger or rogue & then they say ''how did you know''. How didn't I?
Even if they play an fighter elf it will still use a bow.
@@arnijulian6241 (apologies if I miss a lot of points, this went on a lot longer than I was expecting and I am tired and tipsy 😅🤣)
I completely agree, as someone who DMs for my friends who aren't optimisers elves and half elves are by far the most common race I come across, (my current party has one half elf, two elf variants, a dragon born and another player who's on hiatus who will be playing a half elf)
Breaking the mold and stepping back from the stereotypes in a grounded way is a really fun and I often find underused way to play ttrpgs. To use tieflings as an example I've only seen them at my tables to be taken and played in a really edgy, jaded way, which is perfectly fine when you have a party dynamic, but frustrating when you don't. And I'll happily admit that in my first couple tieflings they also fitted that description, though since then I've learned how fun they can be in RP when you step away from that and give them a different attitude.
Like, an elf who has been brought up in high society, doesn't have to be a rigid 'holier than thou' type, they can be a travelling researcher from a different country whose customs are vastly different from the ones they find themselves in, that always leads to some interesting RP no matter what personality the elf, or other race for that matter, has
Ultimately it depends on the table, if everyone is in agreement with a playstyle and theme, then fantastic! I personally have a running joke with my gnomes that the shorter each one is the longer their name gets (it's getting a bit ridiculous at 3'1 lmao) but id never be against trying a rather Brutish, or intelligent, barbarian or warlock gnome because of their stereotypes
The way I see it is any build, any personality and character can be played in a fun and party friendly way if you're with the right group, and that's the fantastic thing about D&D and ttrpgs in general
Happy gaming y'all and hope you all have a fantastic day 😁
@@coffee1139We agree on much it seems.
I assume since you like tiefling you are a tad one for the artsy fartsy & dramatized.
Comes with the territory for some reason so long as you limit it' it can be beneficial rather then over bearing or edgy at the table.
The only way I ever played a tiefling was as a magistrate.
I went the whole hog wearing a powdered wig with horn & a painted face.
I was lawful Neutral but the party were so certain I was evil that they ignored much at our detriment.
Cleric order domain with face following the law to the letter as the DM used English common law in a setting so I took it to the full extent.
Used a club flavoured as a gable with Shillelagh through magic initiate.
Nothing like the wisdom of the being beaten into those that think they are above it.
Had no need for high strength or dexterity as I wore full plate & used wisdom for melee gable or ranged spells-cantrips.
Face cleric is fun cleric for you can persuade your loyal flock to do much & to enact justice in the law & orders sake.
My DM has a rule that if your intelligence is below 10 you are illiterate which makes sense & it was hilarious that my cleric was the only person in the party that could read full sentences & not shorts word's in short sentences.
Playing a tiefling barbarian what got infernal as a free story feat, and it wound up giving me resistance to every type of damage I ended up taking for a good long while.
Dragon Fear is much better with the new Dragonborn where Breath Weapon replaces an attack as part of the Attack action. Infernal Constitution has always been solid without being flashy.
That said, 11 out of 15 feats ending up in C-F tier explains why Elven Accuracy is the only feat XGE is known for.
Dragon Fear deffinitly work for Metal Dragonborn builds
Infernal Constitution is one of those feats that you go "This is great... I'll never pick it though"
@@OutlookJonasIt's one of those nice half-feats that works with a specific build. Either a more frontline tank (that isn't a Bearbarian) or a class that gains bonus resistances like Storm Sorcerer so you'd end up with resistance to multiple damage types, all while rounding out an odd Con score.
@@Mrryn Also great on Tiefling Rune Knights since the Hill Giant Rune grants a pseudo Rage.
Not really. The Hill Rune already grants you poison resistance and advantage in saving throws to resist poison, so you are effectively taking the feat to get Cold Resistance and a bump to Constitution.
This breakdown is fantastic and really makes me re-evaluate several feats that I used to dismiss. Awesome stuff, Chris!
I cant wait until the next video when you put Chef feat in the S-tier 👨🍳
Making delicious food has to be 50 points before any mechanics are applied.
Nearly mandatory for campaigns where you didn't bring your culinarily inclined spouse along for the adventure as an expert sidekick (from the Tasha's section on sidekicks)! Goodberry might keep you from starving to death, but good food gives a party the will to live on
I feel like you're underselling Dragon Hide a bit, specifically the AC boosting part. It's effectively at-will Mage Armor, except you don't have to remember to say, "I cast mage armor on myself" every eight in-game hours.
In the Set Up video, you said that simply gaining access to a 1st or 2nd level spell would be in the 10-19 pt range. But you gave this feature the minimum possible in that range, despite being objectively better than simply gaining access to the mage armor spell.
If you gave this, say, 15 points (10 for "access" to the "spell", 5 for its always-on nature -- same as Drow High Magic's Detect Magic feature), it would be in high C tier.
You have to keep in mind that the spell cast matters. Getting a free cast of witch bolt wouldn't mean anything for example, it'd probably be worth like 2 points. Mage armor is not an especially good first level spell.
I (or, rather, Chris) already took that into account by giving it the lowest possible point total in the "access to first level spells" range.
I'm also not sure I would say it's "not an especially good first-level spell". It's situational, sure, but it's extremely useful on, say, a wizard. Chris himself gave it the highest rating (blue) in his breakdown of wizard spells: ruclips.net/video/MkRG5hPXldc/видео.htmlsi=RAiVpKJFnQiqWkyK&t=206
But that changes some stuff yes? For example, being able to cast Mage armor at will for an abjuration wizard. Though those may not have been taken into account they may be a part of the reason? Edit: as mage armor is "touch", this should be comparable to the eldritch invocation instead that allows self casting of mage armor at will.
You make good points, this armor also can’t be dispelled, as niche as that is.
Unless you can pick up shield proficiency and have a pretty spectacular Dex mod, +4 or more, this will still be worse AC than just Medium armor and a shield though…
This would likely be a +1 AC on a Rogue and could also allow a Monk to Dump Wisdom and go unarmored with pretty solid AC.
But a feat still feels like a pretty steep investment.
Maybe there a build that could use this AC calculation
That's fair. I didn't really think about that comparison at the time of assigning points for that feat. I would push back against it being "objectively" better than mage armor though, since mage armor can be cast on someone else.
I have played with bountiful luck and in practice I would argue it is a lot better then what it seems. As it not that probable for everyone in the table combined to get multiple nat ones in a single round of combat, the feat basically grants everyone halflings luck feature. If you dont have a constent reaction and dont nead another feat desperatly, this is a really valuable pickup for some "support" type of characters.
If you play at a table that uses homebrew rules for critical fumbles, this is even better. However, Chris has mentioned in the past that he has used this feat in campaigns before, so I would tend to gravitate towards his opinion.
@@loganmarks5717 He also evaluates things almost exclusively on what can objectively be measured by numbers, which is almost always combat related scenarios. I would NOT gravitate towards his analysis if a feat has any applicable use in roleplay or challenge outside of combat. Not because he's wrong or bad at it - he just doesn't ever really consider it. I don't know if he plays in an unusually combat heavy playgroup or simply stylistically prefers not to give subjective analysis or anecdotal evidence, but you simply won't find his opinion on non-combat related stuff very ofen.
This feat basically makes rolling a nat 1 impossible for the rest of the campaign for the entire party so long as their just nearby the halfling, unless we're specifically in a combat scenario where 2 people roll a nat 1 in a round. THAT is insane and I can't believe its rated so low (though again, combat focused channel).
It doesn't even have a limitation outside of the fact that it can only be used once per combat round - its just no more nat 1s for the rest of the campaign (unless you roll 2 in a row for the same roll, which is a 1 in 400 chance of happening)
Orcish fury is like a mini Smite when Crit. Might not be the best but is pretty cool when it goes off.
What I don’t understand with the design of the Xanathar’s feats is why they do not all include an ability score increase.
Yeah that would make a lot of the feats worth taking. Just theory crafting here: I wonder if a fixed double score increase (like a ASI but you don't get to choose) + some flavor/ribbon or mid feature would be balanced. I think that could be cool.
@@MajorCinnamonBuns You'd have to be careful with that. Skilled is the worst feat, but if it suddenly came with +2 to a stat, then it would instantly become a feat tax, as you'd be crazy not to take it.
@@johngleeman8347 If it is locked into +1 INT +1 CHA or something it might not be, very few PCs can utilise both of those. 99% of the time one is dumped
Bountiful Luck is the bomb from a fun standpoint. I could see it being a half feat, though.
The current 5E game I run has the "lucky" party. Every PC has luck as a theme of some sort, either by feat or class. They are able to pull off some really crazy stuff that their raw builds wouldn't manage. It fits the theme of the game really well because I'm running Desert of Desolation and want a very "Indiana Jones" vibe to it. The halfling has Bountiful Luck, of course.
I feel like the detect magic portion of the drow high magic feature was slightly underrated. Being able to cast it at will and not using a spell slot means you can always have it on and you dont have to wait the 10 minutes to ritual cast. I've had *many* DMs punish ritual casting while adventuring or dungeon delving.
I have character who can cast _Detect Magic_ as a ritual, and it's been _extremely_ useful. I can imagine being able to cast it at will would be even better.
Counterpoint.
"You learn" a spell, means it's added to your spell list. So you always could have used your spell slot.
They added the clarification text because people kept asking about it.
That would make a substantial difference for feats like Wood Elf Magic.
I run it this way. People actually use these Feats then.
Counter counterpoint.
Although you learn the spell, it isn't added to any class' spell lists and by RAW the spellcasting feature only allows you to expend spell slots to cast spells you know of the associated class (e.g. Druid specifies Druid spells) so despite learning and arguably knowing the spells from this feat, you still lack the ability to cast them using spell slots.
(I'd happily homebrew it personally though)
I wondered that myself. I don't know if that's definitely the case, but it could be read that way in light of subsequent language. And that would make several feats quite a bit more powerful.
@@predwin1998 Fey Touched disagrees.
I think you're wrong to make skill proficiencies only count as a "Ribbon."
Skills are super useful and having proficiency can make rolling a skill so much more reliable, especially as the game gets to higher levels and your proficiency bonus gets pretty high. Skills are the main mechanic for just about every non-combat challenge/encounter, be it social, or exploration, finding/knowing information, or what have you. And savvy use of skills can also help you approach combats with significant advantages, like ambushes or with knowledge of your opponent's strengths/weakness, or luring enemies in to terrain that's to your advantage.
Skills basically elevate the game from just being a smash-n-bash murder hobo fest, where the only thing that matters is winning fights and into an actual role-play and strategy experience, where knowing your enemies, the terrain, choosing and arranging the terms of encounters, and finding an making allies are important aspects. If you think skills are "just a ribbon" then I feel like your GMs just don't really know how to run the game right.
That, or you just think it's fine for the wizard to spend all their spell slots to hand-wave / cheat through everything non-combat related with magic and leave the rest of the party sitting by twiddling thumbs until the fighting starts again, which is a terrible way to play, both for the wizard and the rest of the party.
It's a ribbon for a feat because there are so many ways to get the proficiencies you need before taking a feat for it. Generally in a party you quickly end up in a situation where for all useful skills, there's at least 1 person with a +4/+5 in the AS and proficiency. It might be slightly more relevant if the party splits up a lot, but lots of DMs hate that.
There are also so many ways to help without needing to also be good at the skill. Tons of class features and spells give advantage or bonuses, lucky exists, the entire bard class exists, etc.
The main reason I feel like skills are ribbon features is because getting more skill proficiencies on most characters will not be that impactful. Every character is getting at least 4 skill proficiencies (2 from your class and 2 from your background) and a decent number of classes get more than 2 starting skill proficiencies. There are only 18 skills in the game, and only a few skills are ones that multiple people in the party can benefit from having (as in stealth is a skill that everyone in the party can benefit from since everyone makes individual stealth rolls, but for something like history you really only need one person with proficiency in history since 2 people knowing certain information isn’t any better than 1 person knowing certain information).
On top of that there are some skills that rarely come up (like survival or performance) and also there are often ways to get around using certain skills wether that be spells or even something as simple as researching a historical event or asking a religious leader about something.
So between all of these most parties (at least optimization wise) can easily have a majority of skills covered with proficiency at level 1.
Also as a side note often times failing a skill check will not prevent making progress, while having someone die in combat or even a TPK can definitely prevent progress. Skill checks often just involve making things easier rather than being requirements.
Depends on the table, really. I'm realizing more and more that many people really just run combat-crawlers and at that table, yeah, non-combat skills are pointless. If you like to RP and explore, that's when skill and tool proficiency become important, but most of the type of players that watch tier-ranking lists on YT just kinda play on their phone until Initiative is rolled.
Something I've always thought treantmonk could do better is to highlight just how objective/number/combat focused all of his analysis is. He doesn't hide it by any means, but many viewers are too stupid or have too little of an attention span to understand that this channel is almost exclusively a combat number crunchy channel. In that context, I can see why a skill proficiency is essentially a ribbon. However in the context of *playing DnD* that could be one of the biggest deciding factors in picking the feat up.
The fact that Observant is in C tier should be evidence of this massive combat focused skewing. Observant not only gives a stat increase, something already baseline valued relatively highly on this list, it also give you the biggest increase you could reasonably get for the absolutely most useful passive ability in the game, passive perception. Putting it anywhere under A is probably wrong in my opinion, but given the context that this is a combat number crunchy channel I understand why it is not rated highly (again, even though I think that's totally incorrect). Heck, observant will prevent your party from being ambushed almost certainly a handful of times in a campaign which has direct combat consequences, but since its not quantifiable this channel just assumes it to be a non-factor and sets the utility to zero, which I honestly really disagree with.
Pretty interesting analysis. I would've put more for Squat Nimbleness as speed was a heavily relevant feature in your race ranking videos, and I think having advantage to escape being grappled would not qualify as a ribbon feature seeing as many monsters have the ability to grapple or restrain you, or maybe that's just been my experience lol. Either way I guess you can take what I say with grain of salt as I've never used this feat XD
In my opinion, I feel a damage resistance is worth more than 12 points. Oh well
I’ve taken infernal constitution before and been very happy with it.
Especially those damage types. Being resistant to radiant on the other hand would be worth like 1 point.
yup. played a celestial warlock. resistance was only relevant once... when I chose to step into my own sickening radiance spell.
Played a goliath, weirdly enough cold resistance never came up
But fire res came up all the time, and poison only a bit behind
Another fun fact about Squat Nimbleness is that it doesn’t require you to be a dwarf, just a Small sized race. That means the later MoM races that you get to pick the size of like Genasi, Tabaxi, Aasimar, etc. have access to it. Not only does that mesh well with the movement buffs that these races have (Radiant Soul grants a flying speed, Feline Agility giving you a free dash with some caveats), but the base speed of these races is already 30, unlike the 25 of the PHB dwarf, halfling and gnome, so it’s another way to boost character movement speed outside of or stack with class features like Ranger, Monk, and Barbarian or the Mobile feat. For that reason, of all the feats in XGtE, I think it’s is my favorite.
I wonder if people are commonly houseruling that feats like fey teleportation just lets you use spell slots on those spells. Either way im loving these videos
Good morning Chris! Thank you for all the work you're putting into this series!
Dragon Hide makes me want to play in a silly one shot where i play a Dragonborn Rogue who takes Dragon Hide... because that would be his signature style 😂
Have a good week good sir! 💜
I guess the one that surprises me most is Drow High Magic getting rated above Wood Elf Magic. The ability to get Pass without Trace always catches my interest, and no individual spell on Drow High Magic catches my interest in the same way. But I guess I hadn't thought about how Drow High Magic gives you three spells, one of which is at will, and one of which is third level.
Loving this series. I would love if the table in the future installments could include the numeric value spread in the letter box on the left side. Just a small viewer reference aid.
The videos are all done, but the final video will have all the point values for all the feats in the video description.
thanks, Chris. Really great as always.
Really enjoying your ranking series.
Thanks for this! I’ve been following you and D&D 5e for quite some time and only now have found a steady stream of games through a discord West Marches. This helps ensure I’m making decisions that allow me to stick to character concepts and still pull my weight at the table. Appreciate you!
This is really neat. I am excited to see comparisons between these and the final revised versions of some of these feats when they come out!
Hey you should throw the ASI's score up there I assume its 50. it would be a good reference for what a feat should score.
Agree with this. Would make a good reference point.
I guess it would be difficult to do. Taking the ASI at level 4 is not the same as taking it at higher levels. Of course, the same could be said for some feats so not sure how it would be handled.
There have been whole conversations around this in the comment sections of past videos.
Long and the short is it depends on what assumptions are being made.
Ex
* are those +1’s both going to increase separate modifiers by one? Or are you just increasing one of them by putting both points in it?
* Are we increasing 2 primary ability score bonuses or one primary and one secondary?
It also knocks on the “but all ability scores shouldn’t be weighed evenly” argument.
So it gets messy fast.
A super niche build I want to try eventually is a dwarf fighter or barbarian with Dwarven Fortitude plus Durable to max out the dodge healing. Maybe some levels in monk for Patient Defense. And if we manage to get a Periapt of Wound Closure it’s twice as good.
Also decent on a Dwarf Sorcerer if they can get the Sorcerer magic item.
A player in my group took _Bountiful Luck,_ and from experience, at least, it's come in clutch *so* many times.
I think you're undervaluing skills and severely undervaluing tools. Some roles/archerypes are extremely skill/tool intensive in games that aren't purely combat oriented.
I find it interesting that with Orcish Fury, you gave 5 points for at most 1d12 damage per short rest, but with Flames of Phlegethos you gave 3 points to 1d4 damage possibly several times in a fight.
I personally consider more damage when you need it to be more valuable than little damage more regularly.
Save Orcish Fury for a crit so it’s an extra 2d12
I find it interesting that Flames of Phlegethos d4 to melee attackers is rated 1 point less than 1d4 claws. I mean, no one is likely to ever use the claws, but a d4 fire punishment could be a very slight deterrent to low level enemies who might choose less prickly targets.
I guess I'm saying the Flames might _actually_ come up, whereas the claws almost never will. Personally, I would have given them either the same or 1 more point than the claws. I mean -- compare the 5 points for Orcish Fury's extra (max) 1d12 (2d12 on a crit), 1/SR ?
(Yes, I know this isn't my video, and these ratings are subjective, and Chris already said he's using a system that distributes them across the tiers ... I'm merely providing my opinion on how my rating would differ. No criticism implied!)
These Tier lists are a must watch for my players. I only allow S, A & B. and then I show them your reasoning Chris. No complaints so far and a lot of " Oh i did not realize!" with my players and fellow DMs.
Treant, I think you’re selling tool proficiencies short. According to the Xanathar’s rules, tools can give you advantage on skill checks, which to me at least seems really good.
Flames of phlegethos works with cantrips, including green flame blade. It Is a worse version the of armour of agathys spell (a very good spell) that has no use limit, combos with AoA, and deserves a better place on the tier list
A note on Fey Teleportation it says "You learn the spell" and "May cast it in this way" that suggests you can cast it with spell slots, as you have "Learnt the spell", and "may cast it this way" does not suggest you cannot use a spell slot, unless this has been clarified elsewhere.
Nice to Drow High Magic get a decent shake, can be a fun addition for a Charisma caster... ❤
Especially on a warlock or sorcerer who have limited spells known and spell slots in the case of warlock
Took Dragon Fear on my Dragonborn Warlock, was super effective! Fear effect no spell slot, and a charisma boost was awesome!
I would love a series suggesting home brew improvements for the lowest tier feats when the series is over
Wood Elf Magic even teases "...regain the ability to cast these two spells in this way.." implying another way (like having spell slots).
I think bountiful luck is pretty good value with a big table, especially when it's used outside of combat where you aren't worried about using up your reaction. Let's use the example of a group check for six players:
"To make a group ability check, everyone in the group makes the ability check. If at least half the group succeeds, the whole group succeeds. Otherwise, the group fails."
So let's say each player needs an 11 or better to succeed and there is only one halfling. There is a 66.4% chance of success, which is 0.8% higher than normal because of the halfing's lucky trait.
If the halfing has bountiful luck, the probability the group succeeding is 70.6%, which is a 4.2% improvement compared to being a normal halfling.
Hey Chris, I just received my Tanares hardcover books. Excited to dive into them after all this time. Curious if you'll make a video or discussion now that it's officially out?
Also, great video as always :)
Tools and languages can be learned during downtime (10 weeks in Xanathar's, with ways to get that time even shorter), so the only thing that I can see that could make feats that let you learn tools or languages any better is in campaigns that don't allow you to learn them during downtime for whatever reason (not enough downtime, DM not allowing it). Even then they aren't improved by much.
Xanathar's lets you learn a tool or language in at least ten workweeks (I don't know what "at least" is supposed to represent) and you reduce the number of weeks by your positive Int modifier (negative modifier does not increase that time). In tasha's, there is a chapter for Group Patrons and one example is a Guild patron that says any training takes halve the time. The Academy patron also lets you train to gain proficiency in Arcana, History, Nature, or Religion, but each character can only learn one of these skills.
I have Squat Nimbleness on a Fairy Sorcerer I made... I think the DM let me add the movement speed increase to my fly speed as well.
I really enjoy the feat.
PERFECT TIMING
As a feat, Perfect Timing is 35 points
fun build is observant with eyes of the eagle at a 10 wisdom you have a 20 passive for sight based things. advantage counts as plus 5 to your passive.
For Flames of Phlegethos, people always look at the damage bump, but I'd be interested in seeing the variance bump. An attack that does 1d4 is strictly worst, in my opinion than one that always does 2. I'd be interested in seeing how you value a consistent die roll. I see this also with Great Weapon Fighting.
I’m pretty sure if a feature says, “You learn X spell,” that means you can cast it like any other spell you’ve learned, but typically it is accompanied with a section stating that you can cast it once without a spell slot. I thought that was explained at some point in Safe Advice or something. I can’t find where that was explained atm, though, but I thought for sure that was the case. Clunky language that has been replaced in the Post-Tasha’s era.
These Racial feats work surprisingly well with Monks. Some moreso with subclasses like Flames of Phlegethos with Four Elements Monk.
Nice One
9:44 the orc playable species came out with Volo's Guide a year before Xanathar's, but they didn't have the relentless endurance feature [then] to modify it with this feat
That's right! Good catch.
of note to add is that apparently there was a (on D&D Beyond) expansion that had racial feats for the racial options that were in Vollo's guide
I'm pretty sure the ruling from WotC is that if you "know" a spell, you can cast it.
Most of the races don't say you "know" the level 1+ spells, only that you can cast them once. Newer races then also specify that you can use spell slots.
Magic Initiate at first didn't say you "knew" the level 1 spell so you couldn't use slots even if you had the class. Then they errata'd it to "you know the spell from that class list" which meant you could use slots if you had that class, I guess because you can't use spell slots to cast a wizard spell if you're not a wizard, but that's the only feat that leaves a spell associated with a class.
AFAIK every spell learning feat starting with Xan says you "know" the spell and that meant you could use slots. Starting with Tasha's they explicitly said you could use slots for clarification, but functionally they were the same.
I guess if that's disputed, the question would be: if a feat allows you to also use slots, how many points does that earn if per spell earned... Or does that depend on the spell?
Will you add Ability Score Improvement as well as a measuring stick?
I am surprised you valued a 5 ft speed increase so little. Speed increases are really good imo.
Yeah especially with how highly he rated 35ft movement speed on races
Currently DMing a game with 2 Dwarves and enemies are constantly able to make full escapes due to the 25 ft walk speed. I assume this would be similarly weighted in reverse if it was 35 ft. humans vs normal 30 ft. enemies.
Probably the difference between getting it natively and having to spend a feat on it.
I actually think it's the right valuation, and I'll make my point with math. The speed is ranked at 8 points here, and either 25ft or 35ft speed was ranked at -20 or +20 in the Races video. But if we look at the ASI here, that's valued at 50 points, and an ASI is roughly an average feat. We can also recall that in the Races video, a free feat was rated at 125 points there. 8/50 = 20/125.
@@henrymalinowski5125the 30ft threshold is just so painful. Since DnD allows to freely break up movement everything has to revolve around the 30ft default, since most everything has that movement, you can only ever meaningfully get away from an enemy if you have more than 30, otherwise moving away from an enemy just doesn't do anything
It blows my mind that bountiful luck isnt a half feat while elven accuracy is lol
I miss when you called us optimancers
Hello Optimancer.
❤❤❤@@TreantmonksTemple
Comfort videos 💖
I think a tool should be worth a little more than just a “who cares? 1 point” as this feat was released in xanathars it’s more than likely intended to be used with the xanathars expanded tool uses, which makes tools more useful and it’s any tool proficiency even vehicle proficiencies I believe, things like extra hp on short rests, to making shelters in campaigns where the dm requires housing for full rests and adding your proficiency to vehicles AC and Saving throws could be instrumental, I say at least consider them 5-9 points depending on the tool?
xanathars also give you option to gain any tool proficiency you want with 5 to 10 week training, no feat required for it.
Probably because Xanathar's also gives a way to simply learn a tool or language proficiency in downtime, using the training rules. So, if your campaign and characters really care about such things, they can be picked up fairly easily for "free" (just GP cost and campaign time). Which really devalues them even further, in terms of character building and using a rare resource like ASI/feats to acquire them.
I'm not so sure you can't cast spells like misty step from Fey Teleportation with spell slots. The wording states you *learn* the misty step spell: one benefit separated with an *and* can cast it once without expending a spell slot.
Learn is the exact same phrase used in the spellcasting feature of Bards, Sorcerers, and warlocks to describe when they obtain new spells known. "The Spells Known column of the Bard table shows when you *learn* more bard spells of your choice."
The phrase "You can also cast these spells using spell slots you have of the appropriate level." being added to new feats seems like clarification to me, not a contradiction of the original intent. There might be a rule somewhere I don't know or a sage advice that contradicts me (if so lemme know, I'd love to take a look), but that's just the vibe I get from reading these.
I’d be curious to see how scores would be affected if spells could also be cast with spell slots
How do you think you would change this list if you considered the builds that would want them + how they may be made redundant by other options. For example I would never pic fey teleportation due to fey touched existing, so I would rank it lower for sure.
you should put a normal ASI on the list to compare the feats to
I think that the fix for feats would be to have 3 tiers. Top tier is S tier level feats, powerful feats with no ASI. Middle tier is half feats where you can pick a +1 ASI. Low tier is ribbon feats but you get two +1 ASIs. All feats could be reworked into this system for balance. Everyone gets a feat every ASI, and it would add more utility and variety to characters without being overpowered. Especially for classes that are Ability score dependent like monk.
Do you have a video where you discuss Elven Accuracy in more detail? I'm not sure I see the reasoning behind awarding the full 50 points to the triple advantage feature.
It doesn't do anything for you when you don't already have advantage, and if you do already have advantage then you've already got pretty good odds of landing a hit, and decent odds of landing a crit. It seems to me like the triple advantage turns an already high chance of hitting into a near-guarantee, which seems good but not great, and expands your crit chance which also seems pretty good but not exceptional. And I know advantage is fairly cheap but it's still not something I'd expect to have even half the time unless I'm specifically building for it or relying on a teammate to hand it out to me whenever I like.
Dragon fear is a fight-winning, non-concetration, multiple target, 3rd level spell effect, obtainable before level 5, usable PB/day, that you can slap on martial/half casters, half-feat. Its S tier.
granted strength of its DC depends on a decent charisma score, which limits the classes it will be the most effective on
7:51 Danke!
I'm curious about UA feats now.
Off topic, but in this thread of comments alone there are 14 times when a poster used then when they meant than. Not the same person, so it makes me wonder, are they teaching it wrong in school now? Then relates to sequence of events and than refers to comparison. I don't understand how someone can mistake the two, but I have been seeing it a lot. Like someone who doesn't know whether to use tell or tall. "Wow, that guy sure was tell."
I dunno man bountiful luck has saved our party many times. I think you might underestimate it.
Very possible
I'm confused as to why skill and tool proficiencies are rated so poorly. Skill checks are a major part of the game and gaining extra proficiencies gives your character much greater chances of succeeding on whatever they're trying to do. Surely that rates higher than a ribbon feature, right?
Because proficiency in skills/tools are very easy to come by. Between raciak features, backgrounds, and class/subclass features, you can get all the skill/tool proficiencies you would want. Unless you want to specifically have a lot of skills as an usual class (like a skill monkey barbarian), using a feat for skills is not worth it. And he does make an exception for feats like Skill Expert because it gives Expertise in a skill which is *very* helpful and unique to the point of being worth the feat even for classes like Bard and Rogue that already get a lot of skill proficiencies and Expertise.
I imagine it has to do with the fact that you would already have proficiency in most of the skills you can actually use well. Meaning while they are good to have, its not going to do much to increase versatility or power of a character.
There’s only a handful of skills that are actually consequential to gameplay. Stealth for surprise, athletics for grappling, and then perception is good to have because it’s overused at lots of tables. Beyond that, most ability checks either have no time pressure and can essentially be hand-waved (“multiple ability checks” rule in Xanathar’s) or they can be brute-forced with Guidance, Enhance Ability or several other spells that can bypass the check entirely like Knock.
Social skills can be hit or miss depending on your DM, but usually having one party member with proficiency in them is enough
I 100% agree with you. Skill are in fact NOT easy to come by as some here have stated. I am in a long running campaign with a high level druid. We were rewarded a free feat, I took the skilled feat to help with diplomacy, insight and deception. Even with two of those skills being a dump stat for the character getting a +5 helps a ton! It all depends on what type of campaign you are in on what you should value in your build.
@@teachytv3242 It sounds like your DM is only running combats if those are the only skills that have impact. As a DM i will reward players for just being proficient with a skill in situations that don't require a roll. For example, I might say something like, "Players that are proficient with insight know that X Y and Z" or "Players that are proficient with Tool Proficiency Whatever know that the wares you are looking at are of poor quality". Its up to the DM to make our players builds and selections impactful and not just play a strategic table top battle game. Role Playing and collaborative story telling seems to be dying in our community in favor of min max meta combat bros.
DMs decide when skill checks are needed and who can roll. It is not player determined. Many DMs allow check in certain circumstances only by people who are proficient in a skill. In such situations, skills are invaluable.
Looking at the spells granted by feats - it doesn't actually say you can't use a spell slot, nor does it say you can only cast it once per day. It only says you can cast it for free once per day. I think it is pretty clearly implied that you could cast it with spells. I don't think Tasha's feats are "improved," I think they're just more explicit.
Can you also rank the 2024 playtest feats? that way we could compare the balancing direction of the new ruleset :O
I think I'm done reviewing the playtest. Once the new book comes out, I'll cover the official feats in their final form.
I have a homebrew for Orcish Fury for my group (so far unused cause no one likes orcs :( sad ) idk how broken it is but I basically gave them another use of relentless endurance (as long as its not a crit). I'd like to know if its a balanced change or did i make it too busted?
Hey Chris!! Here's an idea. Create two new categories, "SS" and something below F! This way S and F won't get so convoluted and we'll have a better view on what's broken and what's trash.
Chris mentioned that the tiers will be roughly balanced by the end of the series
Hi Chris! Not sure what happened, but the video compression is really affecting the text on the ranking screen. It wasn't this bad in your previous race tier videos or build tier video. Great content tho, as usual!
I used Tiermaker, which I didn't use for the race tier videos, so that might be to blame.
@@TreantmonksTemple The first segment is really bad, but the compression settles after the first 40 seconds.
If I were to rank your video compression, the first segment would be lower F tier, but after that, it's more like B tier. Not optimal, but okay, I guess. ;)
You mentioned there are better _feats_ then "Fey Teleportation" for Misty Step. The only other feat is "Fey Touched", is there a non-spell feat to achieve the same or just misspoken?
Fey touched was the feat I was thinking of when I said that.
One criticism of this ranking methodology is that no single feature can give more points than an ASI at 50 points. In the ranking elven accuracy would barely be A tier if it was not a half feat, which would be wrong.
I feel 5 meh 10 points features is worse than one super strong one, but in your ranking they are the same
To your first point, I think if Chris felt that triple advantage was worth significantly more than 50 points, he would have increased the cap, so I think you're disagreeing with his score of triple advantage more than the system. To your second point, I would tend to agree because it's much easier to build around one great feature than five situational ones. I think War Caster being ranked so highly is an example of this (rarely do you need/want all three points on the same character, but it's definitely an S tier anyway feat so who cares). However, I still think the ranking methodology holds up reasonably well because I don't think that the extreme exception proves the whole thing doesn't work.
@@loganmarks5717 triple advantage is ~+1.6 (13.66 average normal advantage to 15.25).
So it’s worth about 1.6 ASI (since a full ASI gives you +1 on checks), but does not apply if you have no advantage nor to other things the stat does. But it boost your numbers of Crits significantly.
I do feel it’s better by itself than an ASI if you qualify but I can see the argument either way.
The issue with ranking features with wotc bullet points is that some features are split at random.
Let’s say eleven accuracy was an half feat with 2 other features:
-if you have advantage on an ranged weapon attack roll roll 3 times
-if you have advantage on a spell attack roll 3 times.
The feat would be worse overall, but both of the features are easily worth say 30-40 points since they are as good as the current feat for caster and archers, so the feat overall would rank higher.
I don't understand. How can you not use additional spell slots to cast a spell if you've LEARNED it?
I feel like you bypassed the fact that Dragon Fear's DC is based on your Charisma, so if you're not a Charisma based class, it will most likely not be a good idea to use.
The value of squat nimbleness has definitely gone down with the new design philosophy for small races, that being to stop slapping them with a speed penalty. I think that going from 25 speed to 30 has way more value than 30 to 35. "C" tier for this feat makes sense from that perspective.
Why do you give the Flames of Phlegethos' free d4 damage only 3 points, but the Orcish Fury lousy 1 extra die per SR/LR 5 points? FoP's auto-hit fire damage (assuming it works with cantrips) is way better because it can target multiple creatures and is resource free! What other feats grant you resource-free extra damage that hits automatically? I think it's great on a Gish and Sorcerers can also do shenanigans with Transmuted spell.
PS: Did you say "Gesundheit" at 7:51?
If you're taking orcish fury, you probably have a weapon that is much bigger than a d4, and you can use it on demand, which makes it inherently more valuable (like for nova damage). However, you make some decent points; it could work nicely with GFB on a gish, but that does seem like a pretty niche (but fun) build.
Genuinely curious if someone has an answer to this:
A feat like Second Chance.
When will there ever be a circumstance that you are attacked by a "creature" you can see and can use your reaction, but have not rolled for initiative?
All of these feats are absolutely silly on Moon Druids.
would orcish fury allow a rogue multiple sneak attacks?
If they meet the preconditions for sneak attack, they could deal sneak attack on the relentless endurance reaction, but they only have access to it once per long rest
Flames of P... I'd say the last bullet point is worth a bit more than 3 on average - so often there is at least one or two human in your party who are going to be basically blind without light, and so can't help you with their ranged attacks/magic until you light up like a beacon, to me that is worth 3 on its own. Then having an always on damage return for the entire round that doesn't cost your reaction etc is great, and doesn't stop you also using rebuke etc - Against the horde of weak enemy you charge in cast one spell and watch them all die if they hit...
Our D&D games are low on combat and high on everything else. The Skilled feat and similar feats are wildly popular, as we do so many of those checks. I get Chris' reasoning though.
Hello, the quality is so poor i'm unable to read the S type Feats after polearm master. I was wondering if someone could tell me what those were? I'm not saying the video is poor, treant monk's videos are amazing, i'm just unable to see the feats :( even on "HD" under quality
Resilient, Moderately Armored and Sentinel, in that order
@@elliotbryant3459 awesome, thank you!
This is like turning D&D into GURPS.
I’m surprised elven accuracy is S tier, is one extra dice when you already have advantage really so good?
Yeah, mathematically it's like having between +1-3 to hit depending on how high you need to roll, it increases your crit chance by 4.5% [or 8.1% if you crit on an 19] and gives you +1 to dex or whichever mental stat alternative. Plus it feels great roll 3d20's
:( wood elf magic is so fun on a rogue!
I was wondering, why do speed increases with feats get comparatively low points, when they were treated as a much bigger deal in the race rankings?
After completing the race tier ranking series, I decided that I overvalued the move increases. I think I even mentioned that in the final race tier video (I'm not 100% on that)
@@TreantmonksTemple That's fair, you probably said it and I just forgot lol
do you really think damage resistences are only 12 points? id think it was higher than that...
Saaaaame!
I think you are underevaluating detect magic at will, that keeps parties safer than expertise in perception in any sort of dungeon or guarded tower etc
I lke the flavor of bountiful luck and want it to be ranked higher. But it shouldn't be. There seems a pretty good chance you could use it about 1x per session. And maybe a 50% chance that the reroll is successful and contributes to the party's goals. Meanwhile, polearm master, great weapon master, sharpshooter, and crossbow expert are relevant just about every combat round. This perfectly illustrates the lack of balance in the creation of feats. There are lots of flavorful feats that simply do not deliver enough to merit taking them over certain other feats.
Wood Elf Magic is a perfect 1st level feat for OD&D, but there really isn't a good use case to take it in 5e. Most wood elves are going to get Pass from their spell list from being Druids or Rangers, and taking a feat for it when War Caster, Elven Accuracy, CBE and Sharpshooter exist is a loss. When you hit 4th, If you're a Druid, you've had PWT for a level already, and if you're a Ranger you're taking it next level
I want to love this feat because it's thematic and the spells are good, but it's so hard taking it at 4th level when there's better options
Still think you are undervaluing skill proficiency. In a campaign where skill/social/exploration encounters are used often having a character build that only values combat feats/builds feels bad. But maybe I am the outlier and most people think that D&D is mainly combat?
I think his point of view is that with most skill proficiencies, having inter-party redundancy doesn't add much to party performance. There are 18 skills and each player has 4 or more at level 1. the idea is that there are some that are good for everyone to have [perception, stealth, athletics/acrobatics, maybe persuasion or deception] but most others are more effectively left to someone who has the ability modifier to back it up.
I don't agree that this is the best mindset to have for character construction, but I don't know how you could really quantify flavor/philosophy for the masses, whereas performance seems a lot more clear
Probably someone else already commented this. But the first bonus of prodigy has an AND in it. So you gain 1 skill, 1 tool AND 1 language. Probably that moves it from F to D. Meh.
just rewatched that section, he gave 5+1+1 for the first bullet
I disagree with your evaluation of flames of phlegethos’ last point. You gave it a 3 but gave the second point of orcish fury a 5. I don’t think thats fair, the damage is probably about equivalent and orcish fury is once per rest, whereas the flames of phlegethos has no restriction on number of uses. If you cast firebolt a lot after concentrating on a spell, it’s near constantly up. I don’t think that that is nearly half as good as the orcish fury ability.
Just my opinion, there might be something im missing.
Dragon Hide working with Shield is better than Mage Armor which ends with armor.
Shields work with mage armor too, RAI at least. A shield is wielded, not worn, there's a Sage Advice ruling on it anyway
@@elliotbryant3459 Really? I thought Shields were donned and as Armor.
@@elliotbryant3459 I've read Sage Advise. However, I disagree with Jeremy Crawford on this one. It's found on the Armor table, provides a Armor Class, requires to be donned. As well as, per his saying, paraphrasing, if it were to specify, it would specify Shields. A lot of alternative AC calculations mention strictly, that it can be used with a Shield. Mage Armor, specifically, does not.
Either way, I could see it go both ways, but I'm ruling it does not work with Mage Armor. I appreciate you bringing it up.
mind numbing this, feat like Prodigy is valued so low, a tool a ribbon feature of 1 point, free to choose skill 5 points. This skill lets you take Perception and Thieves Tools... making you abel to find traps, disable traps and open doors. Awesome things to have, for sure if you have no rogue.
Skills are supper important in DnD, tools can be supper important if free to choose, and I see this time again with your evaluations.
Time to rethink....