What Blair did to the university system was his worst crime. Far worse than any other, even Iraq. I have been saying this for years. He took the degree, something priceless & free, and made it worthless & expensive. Quite some feat when you think about it.
Can I just say that I have a degree (decent grade, traditional subject, Russell Group university, awarded in 1979) and I voted to leave the EU precisely because I was taught to think for myself at University (and during my A Level course). Never understood this nonsense about all graduates voting to remain in the EU.
When I was growing up , people went to university, but they were the most intelligent, highly talented people who went. Now anyone can go , this is a huge mistake and is simply about money .
Standards have dropped so much, people with under 100 iq’s going to university. I’ve seen people with a PhD tested with a 112 iq. 115 is the minimum for university and 125 for a Masters/PhD. No wonder we have a competency crisis. That, along with the politicization of everything is having more and more of an impact which, if left unchecked, will degrade our entire society.
@@Dude0000 Whilst PHDs are dubious to a 'T', so are IQ Tests. Where did you see this? I read once you need an IQ (I scoff at such broad measures) of 120 to get a 2:1 - but now it's become a standard 'satisfactory work'' comment in the mark book.
This will result in that 20% being in charge of society, thus concentrating power in the wealthy. Also, research and overall international relations are good for Britain’s innovation and useful international relations. Just institute rules and caps for exchanges. And if they’re not doing that, it makes no sense to advocate an even more extreme policy of banning international students altogether.
@@Frohicky1 I work in a university and my ex at Leeds university business school. She got research funding from trade Unions (TUC) where the outcome of the study was already decided at the beginning during the funding stage, that would normally be held at a posh restaurant at the expense of the university, and therefore from undergraduates fees. Bearing in mind none of them have ever worked in a business and are full on socialists.
@user-iz9co4qf6z Also MBA in particular is 'taught' by people not in business and the 'modules' are not related in anyway to the work. Chartered Sec. is far better for teaching you how to run a Company. Plus practitioners books of course.
Agreed, I managed to skyrocket into the top 30% of filmworld before everything falling apart for me but if I was doing A levels now I'd be studying Horticulure as opposed to film Pre-Citizens Charter most regular kids even ones with straight As went into trades then until about 2022, anyone high grade student would be laughed at for wanting to do jobs reserved exclusively for G & U grade students & foriengers In 2011 8% of A* students went to study a trade Now its 31%, good on Brexit is what I say
@@CalumRoberts-i1x nothing to do with Brexit. It's the natural result of the distruction of the Higher and Further Education systems. Life and the workers required to further it is hierarchical. It requires a hierarchical education system. Technicians require a different education to engineers. There is now a massive shortage of technician level workers. In order to educate 50% of the population at university level required a different financial system. This had the dual effect of creating millions of people in debt at the start of their life, before they have had a chance to acquire capital and changing the nature of Universities so that they become a joke. Creating an underclass of indentured workers, people who will never be able to own anything because anything they own will be required to pay their debt. The Universities now get their income from student fees. This money is the same whatever the student studies. The fee is the same whether the student studies physics, requiring expensive equipment or media studies, requiring a TV and DVD player. The result is an epidemic of Noddy degrees which have no value in the real world. Universities offer unlimited places, after all the more students, the more fees, on courses without regard to the value of course to the nation, the world at large or the students themselves. Hence, a shortage of essential skills and an abundance of misqualified, heavily indebted, graduates. Hence a ready made, artificial proletariat. The last Labour government also intentionally limited the number of people educated in medicine, particularly in nursing. This was to provide a narrative to further immigration. The skills shortage itself might well have been manufactured. The governments avowed intention of Net Zero would require at least 40,000 additional Electrical Engineers, and perhaps three or four times that number of Electricians (source Dr Micheal Kelly Cambridge University). At the height of the 80s recessions, unemployment peaked at about 3 million. Today it is at 9 million. Even with about a million jobs open that leaves 8 million without prospects. In the last 10 years (approx.) net migration has been about 4 million.
She hits the nail on the head 100%. As someone who had both applied for jobs and hired people I can honestly say that a first class degree in something that I personally consider “bollocks studies” would go below someone with a 2:2 in a stem degree especially if they had some kind of part time employment/volunteering as well.
A few examples of my university experience. (History degree) - Week one, year one, a friend had to go and beg for money because they had already spent all their loans. She had absolutely no sense of money🤦 - When tasked with writing a review of a history book, one student didnt even read the book and basically reworded someone elses review and passed the essay (that was me)🤦 - When asked to give a speech on France during WWI, one student gave a speech on Japan🤦 - One student on a WWI module decided to write about propoganda, and then got caught out for plagerising her own work because she chose to write another essay about propoganda but in a WWII module and she got caught because she used the same posters... From a different war🤦 - One student was give a choice of 5 modules and chose one called "Goodbye Lenin". On the first lecture, her first question was who is Lenin?🤦 - We had to write and present a piblic speech in groups of 4. We were writing about how a protest at Miss World in the 80s hindered feminism. 1 member of the team wrote nothing, and a second contributed 2 paragraphs arguing that the protests was amazing for feminism🤦. Neither of them noticed when presenting it live to a public audience that they had not contributed a single word to that speech 🤦. And to make this ordeal worse, we had to promote this speech by producing posters and fliers. One member of the team put forward a shit poster that was white, with the title, the date and a clip art picture of the male and female symbols. We dodnt pick his so he had a breakdown and tried to make another one, which he presented to us 2 weeks after the posters had gone up and we were 2 weeks into writing the speech🤦 These are but a few stories of the idiotix things done and said by uni students. And our year had a 100% pass rate. That's right. The person who couldnt tell the difference between France and Japan now has a degree. I had long felt ashamed to have that degree. Its not a sign of intelligence, its merely a sign that you can succesfully fill in an application form
I think a big problem is the snobbery around universitys from parents and schools themselves. It makes both groups look great to send kids off to university. So many people I know didn't really want to go but felt forced into it by their family. Therefore student mental health is suffering because deep down they shouldn't be at universitys in the first place.
When I did A level anyone who got higher than straight Bs the idea of becoming a builder or gardener was literally mocked as it was seen as a career for deadbeats & foriegners Now it seems to be more fashionable to be a straight A* student & do something ugly, unsophiscated & that pays 5 times more than most jobs & also preserves your mental health
My son went to Uni for one year, he came home saying it’s a scam. 9k for 18 hours tutorial. He got an apprenticeship studying exactly the same Uni course. Started year two as an apprentice, has a full time permanent job, holiday pay, cash in his pocket, goes to work in a suit. What a difference. Young men need work.
Charlotte would benefit from some feedback on the way she verbally communicates her ideas...get rid of the 'like, like, like' and other pointless filler words. It is nonsensical and is a distraction from her valuable & interesting viewpoint... surprised The Spectator is happy to publish this!
Like like like usually denotes grade inflation. Is she a 'Gwad' or not? (I mean a latter day purported 'Gwad' not old style 'Gwad' - though if she has a 'Degwee' now it'll be the equivalent of basic O/A Level of 40 or so years ago.
In a way, she is proving her own argument. However, I am forgiving of verbal tics because we all have them but usually just do not notice until we are on film. It's something for her to work on though, as this is her job.
University for the majority of our young was an ingenious plan by Tony Blair to get many as many of our young to pay for their own indoctrination into leftist ideology, whilst getting a worthless 'ology'... so sad😢
Ha,, yes, I have said for some years that degrees these days are no different to the 'indulgences' sold by the church in the Middle Ages. The only difference, I suppose, is that those buying degrees today are, or should be, better informed and less gullible than those who bought indulgences.
There certainly are many obvious parallels. One big difference though is these Universities do nothing to help the poor, at least the monasteries did that, allegedly.
She probably have a first hand experience in how difficult it is to find a job in humanities, and she is thinking that the grass is greener in STEM - its not.
No. I just think it's better not to piss around with Uneeeeeeeeee (notwithstanding where) and go to work. Then do sector specific professional and vocational exams.
I realised in my third year of uni back in 2009 that the whole thing was a fraud. This was confirmed when after graduating I saw day after day that my degree was not worth the paper it was printed on in terms of obtaining desirable employment.
Hello from America, look at what Andrew Carnegie did with an 8th grade education. Carnegie steel + Rockefeller oil + Vanderbilt railroads => built a superpower. And then Carnegie built the American library system and gave away the rest of the fortune he had produced. Granted, education today is no match for his eighth grade education 150 years ago. Q: Why? A: Educators unions & public education.
@tomk8729 Public/Private School I am afraid. They aren't taught how to communicate properly. If she gives me her A Level grades I'll do a grade inflation analysis if she wishes.
@@yousoufkirkwood6289 She has a psychology degree??!! I will not be watching the video given that the plethora of such degrees is one of the main factors responsible for the collapse of our civilisation.
University is worth it for students who study Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics. Arts degrees are a three year doss and a waste of time, energy, and money.
I never went to University. I decided to drop out of college because I didnt like it and didnt see the point of sitting around in a classroom writing if university was going to be more of the same boring bollocks. Glad I didn't. I was quite lost for a number of years after that, but I eventually found my way.
Back in the day only the academic ones went to uni. Maybe 10 or 15%. But now it's 50%. And because some of the smart ones don't go to uni, choosing instead to go abroad or start a business or whatever, it means that some uni entrants are now actually below average academically. But it's all about being inclusive, yes? Just be careful when seeing a doctor or lawyer if they 'graduated' recently....
Back in my mums day it was seen as respectable to want to get into a trade now if you're an A* student you'd get ridiculed for wanting to become a plumber, gardener, bricklayer Even though its gradually changing there still an extreme amount of discrimination around it
Pre-Brexit I think almost everyone wouldve laughed at Charlotte for her suggestion about learning to do jobs that are more suited to people from Prauge or Kulua Lumper Now with the decline of interest in the arts & law I think people are beginning to see shes right
Charlotte Gill's linkedin page; 'University of LeedsUniversity of Leeds BSc, PsychologyBSc, Psychology 2007 - 20102007 - 2010 Grade: First Class HonoursGrade: First Class Honours Activities and societies: Leeds Student Newspaper writer (2008-2010)Activities and societies: Leeds Student Newspaper writer (2008-2010) 3 presentations given in third year. Topics: Statistics, Cognition, Visual Perception, Language, Personality, Evolution, Educational Psy, Neuroscience, Psychology of Design, Sleep and Reproduction. I studied Joint Honours with Philosophy in my first year. Topics: Logic, Ethics, the Mind' She seems pretty proud of her education?
I'm increasingly seeing people collect educational certificates & degrees like bric-a-brac rather than as a grounding in a serious subject that they will devote & develop their careers in
I can now see why the Conservatives are so unpopular and why they got thrown out! A Law professor and a psychology graduate telling us all that we don't need degrees. If degrees should only be practical then isn't he a barrister or solicitor and she a psychologist? How did Boris Johnson, a classics graduate, become a Prime Minister? As for myself, I would rid the land of PPE (Politics, Philosophy and Economics) degrees, as such courses are breeding grounds for every sleazy politician and Media PR operative you could shake a stick at. The Conservative party is infested with them.
Here are some ideas to improve the higher education system based on my experience of going to university: 1) Scrap group work assignments. Each person should be graded on their own merits rather than benefiting from the hard work of others. 2) Have Grade quotas, for example only 10% can get a first, 20% a 2:1, 30% a 2:2, the rest fail. This will mean that employers can differentiate between candidates. If everyone gets a first, then it has no value. Also the risk of failing will push some people away from university and hopefully to something more suited to them. 3) Have assessment standards to avoid simple assignments such as multiple choice exams. 4) Have good alternatives to university. Apprenticeships, practical training courses and such. You don’t have to be academic to be intelligent or successful.
Group work encourages collaboration and cooperation. Sometimes the grading is unfair but how many times at work have you had to carry an incompetent colleague because you didn’t want them to negatively impact on your attainment? Its a part of life. Very very few people work solely independently and aren’t dependent on the work of others. Your second point undermines your first - achieve by your own merits but “sorry, you earned a first but we already hit our quota so here’s a 2:2”? Perhaps what you mean is to Move the grade boundaries to make it more difficult to get the higher classifications? I’d agree that multiple choice exams have no place in an undergraduate qualification. Nor any other tbh. I agree wholeheartedly with your fourth point. There are too few alternative opportunities in education and training.
@@davetaylor1787 Group work could still be used for formative work, but not for graded assignments, or at least there should be a cap on how much group work can contribute towards your final grade. I take your point on the quotas. Adjusting grade boundaries is a good idea and it should be done in such a way that getting a first is hard to achieve.
@@ScruffyTubbles I’m not familiar with the CNAA or the impact it had on higher education when it existed. Any such organisation would have its pros and cons as we see with ofsted, so it would have to be well thought through before implementing.
I did a humanities degree at a top 5 university. Everyone on the course had all A*s. During the first term they had to put on remedial writing classes... Edit: wrote the comment before watching the video and what do you know, the law professor mentioned precisely that issue. What must it be like for the people who attend the hundreds of less prestigious institutions when it's that bad at the "elite" ones?
depends what you do lol. I did aerospace engineering and have been working at rolls royce since graduating, couldnt have gotten that job without that degree!
All children born in the uk should be given a £50k voucher at age 18 to be used to either buy a university education or to be put into a global index tracker that can be accessed at retirement or when they buy their first home That would give kids choice and id imagine 80-90% of the kids would choose to keep the voucher as a pension rather than a university education
@petragiri2308 the kids will pay it back in taxes when they are older I'd argue the cost would be close to zero or even negative seeing as most lids will opt to take the voucher as a pension so fewer old people on retirement will need support and the average kid will start working 3.5 years sooner paying taxes 3.5 years sooner
Interesting discussion. So many degrees are worthless now and of such poor quality. I did an MA in "Advanced Language Skills" in Ireland years ago. The quality was so bad I complained to the university about it but it made no difference, not least because none of my fellow students would support me. They were all just happy to get their "piece of paper" for so little effort.
TLDR: Epistemic snobbery - "don't go to university unless you are one of us elites" "we decide what 'good' knowledge is and who it's for and it's for us not you" "knowledge is power and we are not giving you a seat at the table"
University is for people who have a high level of IQ. That is what it is there fore. Many kids that go to University come out and they don't remember what they have studied for. I heard this 30 years ago. It is still the same today. The system is broken.
Seeing the university situation now, compared to the 60s, it saddens me. I did very well at the Cambridge "A" levels held in Nairobi, but decided to work in the family businesses for some 6 years, however the situation in Africa was changing rapidly, hence decided to complete my studies, just in case we had to pack our bags. On investigating which university to frequent, of the many available, it was strongly suggested that I should go to Durban, South Africa, having top professors. After four years I graduated with the top prizes, having attained a twin degree, Civil Engineering and Computer Science. The going was very demanding, often seeing dawn rise above the Indian Ocean, waiting for the slow computers of the time, to complete all the calculations. In the final year we were down to only 22 students, and the faculty consisted of the Dean and FIVE professors that also had working experience in the real world, hence practical insight of real problems. After all my experiences since graduating, I look back and realize how lucky we were to have had such wonderful and capable professors.
Agree with much of the challenge here. (1) Before universities expanded, it was possible to start a professional career with A levels and you would be trained on the job. Why do we think that learning outside the workplace for just half the calendar year at a cost of tens of thousands of pounds is better? Many esteemed professions were not 'graduate only''. (2) If graduates are more productive, why is the UK economy's productivity growth so pathetic after a long period of having more graduates coming in to the workforce. (3) Graduates are being driven to do postgrad courses so that they stand out from the mass of grads, adding even more to their debt burden. (4) Why should the vast majority of students go to universities far away from home if they are not doing specialist courses? As said here, France does not have that system, for example. Being away from home doubles the cost and is a sudden transition for students which could be very stressful. (5) AI is probably going to make the current uni model obselete. Perhaps AI may be used positively in teaching course material, and fewer teachers could focus on more complex ideas and real engagement with students. AI is already making it easier for students to produce course work with AI input, which might be abused by some, thus undermining the educational impact on a student of that task. Are schools doing enough to prepare students for the very different and more independent study at university and for practicalities of life? When I was at school, the teacher for a session on money just told us it was too complex and let us do what we wanted, so that was useless.
What a load of nonsense. Universities are struggling financially because inflation has eaten heavily into the money they take from tuition fees. They were set to 9000 and haven’t changed since then. Either the government raises tuition fees to meet inflation or says they’re free and changes the way universities are run.
I think honestly at least in the university system of the USA, we have the problem of the university being a default option that just anyone goes to because that’s the default option and nobody ever says no. The admission standards are in the toilet, which is to say that if you manage to graduate high school, you can go to 4-year university. Add in that our system is paid by loans and you have a system that only the banks can love. I’ve become much more in favor of the Asian system where only the top students get into university and the rest are sent to various forms of trade schools. This does a lot of things that our system doesn’t: prioritize students who work hard in school and can perform, avoid overtraining students who don’t have the ability or work ethic so when the get lower jobs they aren’t feeling let down, avoids unpayable debt, preserves the rigor and thus the value of a university degree, and avoids over saturation of the degree holder market.
Common sense tells those without a degree that those with degrees are likely to lack common sense. This defies my common sense as it comes across as a labelling applied without assessing the person and their history. But, then again, I'm not likely to have much common sense with my 3 degrees. Thank goodness.
Psychology Charlotte? I would have thought PPE was more in your line if you could have got into Oxford - I think they call the same blagging Jurisprudence at Cambridge...
It's condescending to have two privileged people conspiring to deny opportunities to poorer people that they would not deny their nearest & dearest so that they can have their loos & brickwork fixed & sleep soundly knowing dear old Blighty will be defended by working class cannon fodder.
@@lloydedwards7634 so it’s better they shove workers into 40k of debt to get a job that didn’t require a degree previously. But yeah let’s just have a slave class of migrant labour to do jobs were too proud to do sure
That not at all what they are saying . They saying the system needs a reset and that the whole university system has become not what it is intended to be which is higher academic learning and research. A lot of the degrees and students are Further Education level study. They also saying students in the West are brought up to think they can be anything rather than thinking sensibly about what is required to meet labour market and what skills.that.will require. That degrees are not right for everyone but they being sold as the be all and end all and then stidents looking down on those who do not have one. This leading to lots.of problems with mental.health, disappointment. Difficult for lecturers when students not really academically able or suited. It all become a business not education and they should return to how things used to be with smaller universities for academic rigour of study as they were intended to be.
Or the same 'working class' can work, get an income avoid debt and get Professional Exams - eventually - and a much higher salary than the Gwads you might think everyone should;d be.
if everyone goes to Uni there is not added value to it and you end up with most people unhappy cos they are not in the kind of job they expected to have -
What Blair did to the university system was his worst crime. Far worse than any other, even Iraq. I have been saying this for years.
He took the degree, something priceless & free, and made it worthless & expensive. Quite some feat when you think about it.
I agree! He did it to cover up the youth unemployment statistics.
@@laurajibson8945 Much like school leaving age increasing to 18.
in fairness the damage was done by major, blair/brown just made it worse
Entirely agree.
Can I just say that I have a degree (decent grade, traditional subject, Russell Group university, awarded in 1979) and I voted to leave the EU precisely because I was taught to think for myself at University (and during my A Level course). Never understood this nonsense about all graduates voting to remain in the EU.
Do you not understand what average means
The university used to be admired and respected. No more. 😢
That applies to many of their graduates who will not earn enough to repay their loans, now amounting to millions,with their low or no value degrees.
Many universities still are. Ask the graduates.
@@abazely2743 That was intended. Some contribution for a finite time.
Bring back polytechnics!
@@zorbathegeek You can't bring back something you have actively destroyed along with CNAA.
@zorbathegeek No good without the CNAA and the new Uneeeeeeeeees would never let them crawl all over their books....
When I was growing up , people went to university, but they were the most intelligent, highly talented people who went.
Now anyone can go , this is a huge mistake and is simply about money .
Standards have dropped so much, people with under 100 iq’s going to university. I’ve seen people with a PhD tested with a 112 iq. 115 is the minimum for university and 125 for a Masters/PhD. No wonder we have a competency crisis. That, along with the politicization of everything is having more and more of an impact which, if left unchecked, will degrade our entire society.
This
@@Dude0000 Whilst PHDs are dubious to a 'T', so are IQ Tests. Where did you see this? I read once you need an IQ (I scoff at such broad measures) of 120 to get a 2:1 - but now it's become a standard 'satisfactory work'' comment in the mark book.
A maximum of 20% of any cohort needs to go to University.
And if Universities want to educate overseas students let them open overseas branches.
This will result in that 20% being in charge of society, thus concentrating power in the wealthy. Also, research and overall international relations are good for Britain’s innovation and useful international relations. Just institute rules and caps for exchanges. And if they’re not doing that, it makes no sense to advocate an even more extreme policy of banning international students altogether.
Educating International students is a very good money earner for the UK.
@stephfoxwell4620 UCL and others were cavorting around the world offering laptops to sign up. You mean that kind of degwee?
If you go to university to do a non academic subject, e.g. business studies, management, it's a complete waste of money
Except that employers often ask for these things because they don't want to make money. Love of money is vital.
@@Frohicky1 I work in a university and my ex at Leeds university business school. She got research funding from trade Unions (TUC) where the outcome of the study was already decided at the beginning during the funding stage, that would normally be held at a posh restaurant at the expense of the university, and therefore from undergraduates fees. Bearing in mind none of them have ever worked in a business and are full on socialists.
@user-iz9co4qf6z Also
MBA in particular is 'taught' by people not in business and the 'modules' are not related in anyway to the work. Chartered Sec. is far better for teaching you how to run a Company. Plus practitioners books of course.
@@ScruffyTubbles MBA is just a money spinner for universities
Labour brought in a means to create a new class of indentured servants.
Agreed, I managed to skyrocket into the top 30% of filmworld before everything falling apart for me but if I was doing A levels now I'd be studying Horticulure as opposed to film
Pre-Citizens Charter most regular kids even ones with straight As went into trades then until about 2022, anyone high grade student would be laughed at for wanting to do jobs reserved exclusively for G & U grade students & foriengers
In 2011 8% of A* students went to study a trade
Now its 31%, good on Brexit is what I say
@@CalumRoberts-i1x nothing to do with Brexit.
It's the natural result of the distruction of the Higher and Further Education systems. Life and the workers required to further it is hierarchical. It requires a hierarchical education system. Technicians require a different education to engineers. There is now a massive shortage of technician level workers.
In order to educate 50% of the population at university level required a different financial system. This had the dual effect of creating millions of people in debt at the start of their life, before they have had a chance to acquire capital and changing the nature of Universities so that they become a joke. Creating an underclass of indentured workers, people who will never be able to own anything because anything they own will be required to pay their debt.
The Universities now get their income from student fees. This money is the same whatever the student studies. The fee is the same whether the student studies physics, requiring expensive equipment or media studies, requiring a TV and DVD player.
The result is an epidemic of Noddy degrees which have no value in the real world. Universities offer unlimited places, after all the more students, the more fees, on courses without regard to the value of course to the nation, the world at large or the students themselves.
Hence, a shortage of essential skills and an abundance of misqualified, heavily indebted, graduates. Hence a ready made, artificial proletariat.
The last Labour government also intentionally limited the number of people educated in medicine, particularly in nursing. This was to provide a narrative to further immigration.
The skills shortage itself might well have been manufactured. The governments avowed intention of Net Zero would require at least 40,000 additional Electrical Engineers, and perhaps three or four times that number of Electricians (source Dr Micheal Kelly Cambridge University).
At the height of the 80s recessions, unemployment peaked at about 3 million. Today it is at 9 million. Even with about a million jobs open that leaves 8 million without prospects. In the last 10 years (approx.) net migration has been about 4 million.
Having worked in 4 universities I cannot agree more with the fine lady and the honest professor.
She hits the nail on the head 100%. As someone who had both applied for jobs and hired people I can honestly say that a first class degree in something that I personally consider “bollocks studies” would go below someone with a 2:2 in a stem degree especially if they had some kind of part time employment/volunteering as well.
A few examples of my university experience. (History degree)
- Week one, year one, a friend had to go and beg for money because they had already spent all their loans. She had absolutely no sense of money🤦
- When tasked with writing a review of a history book, one student didnt even read the book and basically reworded someone elses review and passed the essay (that was me)🤦
- When asked to give a speech on France during WWI, one student gave a speech on Japan🤦
- One student on a WWI module decided to write about propoganda, and then got caught out for plagerising her own work because she chose to write another essay about propoganda but in a WWII module and she got caught because she used the same posters... From a different war🤦
- One student was give a choice of 5 modules and chose one called "Goodbye Lenin". On the first lecture, her first question was who is Lenin?🤦
- We had to write and present a piblic speech in groups of 4. We were writing about how a protest at Miss World in the 80s hindered feminism. 1 member of the team wrote nothing, and a second contributed 2 paragraphs arguing that the protests was amazing for feminism🤦. Neither of them noticed when presenting it live to a public audience that they had not contributed a single word to that speech 🤦. And to make this ordeal worse, we had to promote this speech by producing posters and fliers. One member of the team put forward a shit poster that was white, with the title, the date and a clip art picture of the male and female symbols. We dodnt pick his so he had a breakdown and tried to make another one, which he presented to us 2 weeks after the posters had gone up and we were 2 weeks into writing the speech🤦
These are but a few stories of the idiotix things done and said by uni students. And our year had a 100% pass rate. That's right. The person who couldnt tell the difference between France and Japan now has a degree. I had long felt ashamed to have that degree. Its not a sign of intelligence, its merely a sign that you can succesfully fill in an application form
As a matter of interest, which university was this?
@@Mike-H_UK Rachel Reeves was plagiarising recently mind.
@@Mike-H_UKoh yes, actually that’s the only matter of interest here.
NO wonder the country is in such a mess. All virtue-signalling. Nothing real
@@omerciftci4673 It is very important after the abolition of the CNAA.
I think a big problem is the snobbery around universitys from parents and schools themselves. It makes both groups look great to send kids off to university. So many people I know didn't really want to go but felt forced into it by their family. Therefore student mental health is suffering because deep down they shouldn't be at universitys in the first place.
When I did A level anyone who got higher than straight Bs the idea of becoming a builder or gardener was literally mocked as it was seen as a career for deadbeats & foriegners
Now it seems to be more fashionable to be a straight A* student & do something ugly, unsophiscated & that pays 5 times more than most jobs & also preserves your mental health
My son went to Uni for one year, he came home saying it’s a scam. 9k for 18 hours tutorial. He got an apprenticeship studying exactly the same Uni course. Started year two as an apprentice, has a full time permanent job, holiday pay, cash in his pocket, goes to work in a suit. What a difference. Young men need work.
Charlotte would benefit from some feedback on the way she verbally communicates her ideas...get rid of the 'like, like, like' and other pointless filler words. It is nonsensical and is a distraction from her valuable & interesting viewpoint... surprised The Spectator is happy to publish this!
@@Rhaas66 I didn't rate her at all, even minus the pause fillers
Like like like usually denotes grade inflation. Is she a 'Gwad' or not? (I mean a latter day purported 'Gwad' not old style 'Gwad' - though if she has a 'Degwee' now it'll be the equivalent of basic O/A Level of 40 or so years ago.
In a way, she is proving her own argument. However, I am forgiving of verbal tics because we all have them but usually just do not notice until we are on film. It's something for her to work on though, as this is her job.
if you can’t handle the message go after the delivery.
University for the majority of our young was an ingenious plan by Tony Blair to get many as many of our young to pay for their own indoctrination into leftist ideology, whilst getting a worthless 'ology'... so sad😢
UK universities have been woke madrassa for decades.
Does psychology degree, daddy gets you in the media despite not having any media skills, proceed to rail on other degrees…
Pseudo-Science degwee.
They should be sacked like the monasteries of the Middle Ages
Ha,, yes, I have said for some years that degrees these days are no different to the 'indulgences' sold by the church in the Middle Ages. The only difference, I suppose, is that those buying degrees today are, or should be, better informed and less gullible than those who bought indulgences.
There certainly are many obvious parallels. One big difference though is these Universities do nothing to help the poor, at least the monasteries did that, allegedly.
@petragiri2308 There are.
(Coming from a Gwad though CNAA Gwad admittedly).
She probably have a first hand experience in how difficult it is to find a job in humanities, and she is thinking that the grass is greener in STEM - its not.
No. I just think it's better not to piss around with Uneeeeeeeeee (notwithstanding where) and go to work. Then do sector specific professional and vocational exams.
@@bigbarry8343 I suppose a bit more interesting to study?
She made really good points but her communication is very poor. Her message would have a lot more strength if she worked on her presentation skills.
And she introduced herself and her studies properly - and where she did those studies.
I realised in my third year of uni back in 2009 that the whole thing was a fraud. This was confirmed when after graduating I saw day after day that my degree was not worth the paper it was printed on in terms of obtaining desirable employment.
people forget that since new labour, and under modern teachers, everyone becomes more intelligent every year, and that goes on forever.
Hello from America, look at what Andrew Carnegie did with an 8th grade education.
Carnegie steel + Rockefeller oil + Vanderbilt railroads => built a superpower.
And then Carnegie built the American library system and gave away the rest of the fortune he had produced.
Granted, education today is no match for his eighth grade education 150 years ago.
Q: Why?
A: Educators unions & public education.
Charlotte Gill: 'like, you know.' No I don't. Explain it please.
Pretty incoherent it has to be said. Too many filler words as you point out.
Really annoying voice and affectations
@tomk8729 Public/Private School I am afraid. They aren't taught how to communicate properly. If she gives me her A Level grades I'll do a grade inflation analysis if she wishes.
No, it's almost universal among young people, particularly women. They are frightened of being specific and accountable for their opinions.
I was too stupid to go to University but that would not be a problem today.
I found it difficult to follow Charlotte's argument sometimes. Quite inarticulate and incoherent.
I didn't see what her 'degwee' was. ? I was watching the script. OK I hear since but where was it and why a pseudo science?
@@ScruffyTubblespsychology I think She said.
@@yousoufkirkwood6289 She has a psychology degree??!! I will not be watching the video given that the plethora of such degrees is one of the main factors responsible for the collapse of our civilisation.
@@yousoufkirkwood6289 Yes but why study a Pseudo Science?
Couldn't get into Medical School -despite her Public School education?
Yeah, I also found it quite difficult to follow, it was sort of, if you know what I mean, like, at the end of the day, if you get what I mean.
I can fix it in two words. Free. Markets.
Get your degree through an employer, not a university.
Dont forget feminist dance studies doctorate for breakdancers.
Depends what you're going to study, if a STEM degree then I think it's still worth it.
Possibly, but not guaranteed.
It's been a scam for a very long time. And this has been true forever [07:40].
University is worth it for students who study Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics. Arts degrees are a three year doss and a waste of time, energy, and money.
All the best people have arts degrees!
I never went to University. I decided to drop out of college because I didnt like it and didnt see the point of sitting around in a classroom writing if university was going to be more of the same boring bollocks. Glad I didn't. I was quite lost for a number of years after that, but I eventually found my way.
Great discussion, really enjoyed hearing from Charlotte and Andrew.
The inflated HE sector needs to shrink with more investment in underfunded Further Education.
Or better, no state investment in either. Not a penny.
Absolutely. And we need to get back to proper professional exams.
Much better to learn a practical trade skill, especially in the field of artificial intelligence.
Back in the day only the academic ones went to uni. Maybe 10 or 15%. But now it's 50%. And because some of the smart ones don't go to uni, choosing instead to go abroad or start a business or whatever, it means that some uni entrants are now actually below average academically. But it's all about being inclusive, yes? Just be careful when seeing a doctor or lawyer if they 'graduated' recently....
Back in my mums day it was seen as respectable to want to get into a trade now if you're an A* student you'd get ridiculed for wanting to become a plumber, gardener, bricklayer
Even though its gradually changing there still an extreme amount of discrimination around it
Pre-Brexit I think almost everyone wouldve laughed at Charlotte for her suggestion about learning to do jobs that are more suited to people from Prauge or Kulua Lumper
Now with the decline of interest in the arts & law I think people are beginning to see shes right
Charlotte Gill's linkedin page;
'University of LeedsUniversity of Leeds
BSc, PsychologyBSc, Psychology
2007 - 20102007 - 2010
Grade: First Class HonoursGrade: First Class Honours
Activities and societies: Leeds Student Newspaper writer (2008-2010)Activities and societies: Leeds Student Newspaper writer (2008-2010)
3 presentations given in third year.
Topics: Statistics, Cognition, Visual Perception, Language, Personality, Evolution, Educational Psy, Neuroscience, Psychology of Design, Sleep and Reproduction.
I studied Joint Honours with Philosophy in my first year.
Topics: Logic, Ethics, the Mind'
She seems pretty proud of her education?
Well some of those courses may not be easy. I've looked at some of that material myself.
Sounds hypocritical! I knew she had to be a psychology graduate.
I'm increasingly seeing people collect educational certificates & degrees like bric-a-brac rather than as a grounding in a serious subject that they will devote & develop their careers in
The issue is short courses are not subsided by the government so low income households will be left behind.
I can now see why the Conservatives are so unpopular and why they got thrown out! A Law professor and a psychology graduate telling us all that we don't need degrees. If degrees should only be practical then isn't he a barrister or solicitor and she a psychologist? How did Boris Johnson, a classics graduate, become a Prime Minister? As for myself, I would rid the land of PPE (Politics, Philosophy and Economics) degrees, as such courses are breeding grounds for every sleazy politician and Media PR operative you could shake a stick at. The Conservative party is infested with them.
Here are some ideas to improve the higher education system based on my experience of going to university:
1) Scrap group work assignments. Each person should be graded on their own merits rather than benefiting from the hard work of others.
2) Have Grade quotas, for example only 10% can get a first, 20% a 2:1, 30% a 2:2, the rest fail. This will mean that employers can differentiate between candidates. If everyone gets a first, then it has no value. Also the risk of failing will push some people away from university and hopefully to something more suited to them.
3) Have assessment standards to avoid simple assignments such as multiple choice exams.
4) Have good alternatives to university. Apprenticeships, practical training courses and such. You don’t have to be academic to be intelligent or successful.
You mean bring back the CNAA to vet course content difficulty and pass rates then?
Group work encourages collaboration and cooperation. Sometimes the grading is unfair but how many times at work have you had to carry an incompetent colleague because you didn’t want them to negatively impact on your attainment? Its a part of life. Very very few people work solely independently and aren’t dependent on the work of others.
Your second point undermines your first - achieve by your own merits but “sorry, you earned a first but we already hit our quota so here’s a 2:2”? Perhaps what you mean is to
Move the grade boundaries to make it more difficult to get the higher classifications?
I’d agree that multiple choice exams have no place in an undergraduate qualification. Nor any other tbh.
I agree wholeheartedly with your fourth point. There are too few alternative opportunities in education and training.
@@davetaylor1787 Group work could still be used for formative work, but not for graded assignments, or at least there should be a cap on how much group work can contribute towards your final grade.
I take your point on the quotas. Adjusting grade boundaries is a good idea and it should be done in such a way that getting a first is hard to achieve.
@@ScruffyTubbles I’m not familiar with the CNAA or the impact it had on higher education when it existed. Any such organisation would have its pros and cons as we see with ofsted, so it would have to be well thought through before implementing.
@daveyharve Council for Mational Academic Awards. They moderated and stopped degrees being run.
A very important discussion. These two spoke a lot of sense and truth.
I did a humanities degree at a top 5 university. Everyone on the course had all A*s.
During the first term they had to put on remedial writing classes...
Edit: wrote the comment before watching the video and what do you know, the law professor mentioned precisely that issue. What must it be like for the people who attend the hundreds of less prestigious institutions when it's that bad at the "elite" ones?
I doubt the Law Professor has ever been in practice like our gen often were before or at the same time as taking 'degwees'.
How do you expect professionals -- doctors, architects, lawyers , classical musicians - to be trained wihout universities?
Answer: A most resoundingly horrible NOT WORTH IT!
depends what you do lol. I did aerospace engineering and have been working at rolls royce since graduating, couldnt have gotten that job without that degree!
For balance perhaps the Spectator should have asked an ancient University to give its views.
PhDs in Gender Identity and Sociology studies.
Yes !!!!
Yes and I work in one.
All children born in the uk should be given a £50k voucher at age 18 to be used to either buy a university education or to be put into a global index tracker that can be accessed at retirement or when they buy their first home
That would give kids choice and id imagine 80-90% of the kids would choose to keep the voucher as a pension rather than a university education
What? You mean free money, money for nothing. Who will pay? And why so much?
@petragiri2308 the kids will pay it back in taxes when they are older
I'd argue the cost would be close to zero or even negative seeing as most lids will opt to take the voucher as a pension so fewer old people on retirement will need support and the average kid will start working 3.5 years sooner paying taxes 3.5 years sooner
Interesting discussion. So many degrees are worthless now and of such poor quality. I did an MA in "Advanced Language Skills" in Ireland years ago. The quality was so bad I complained to the university about it but it made no difference, not least because none of my fellow students would support me. They were all just happy to get their "piece of paper" for so little effort.
TLDR: Epistemic snobbery - "don't go to university unless you are one of us elites" "we decide what 'good' knowledge is and who it's for and it's for us not you" "knowledge is power and we are not giving you a seat at the table"
University is for people who have a high level of IQ. That is what it is there fore. Many kids that go to University come out and they don't remember what they have studied for. I heard this 30 years ago. It is still the same today. The system is broken.
Seeing the university situation now, compared to the 60s, it saddens me.
I did very well at the Cambridge "A" levels held in Nairobi, but decided to work in the family businesses for some 6 years, however the situation in Africa was changing rapidly, hence decided to complete my studies, just in case we had to pack our bags. On investigating which university to frequent, of the many available, it was strongly suggested that I should go to Durban, South Africa, having top professors.
After four years I graduated with the top prizes, having attained a twin degree, Civil Engineering and Computer Science. The going was very demanding, often seeing dawn rise above the Indian Ocean, waiting for the slow computers of the time, to complete all the calculations.
In the final year we were down to only 22 students, and the faculty consisted of the Dean and FIVE professors that also had working experience in the real world, hence practical insight of real problems.
After all my experiences since graduating, I look back and realize how lucky we were to have had such wonderful and capable professors.
Agree with much of the challenge here. (1) Before universities expanded, it was possible to start a professional career with A levels and you would be trained on the job. Why do we think that learning outside the workplace for just half the calendar year at a cost of tens of thousands of pounds is better? Many esteemed professions were not 'graduate only''. (2) If graduates are more productive, why is the UK economy's productivity growth so pathetic after a long period of having more graduates coming in to the workforce. (3) Graduates are being driven to do postgrad courses so that they stand out from the mass of grads, adding even more to their debt burden. (4) Why should the vast majority of students go to universities far away from home if they are not doing specialist courses? As said here, France does not have that system, for example. Being away from home doubles the cost and is a sudden transition for students which could be very stressful. (5) AI is probably going to make the current uni model obselete. Perhaps AI may be used positively in teaching course material, and fewer teachers could focus on more complex ideas and real engagement with students. AI is already making it easier for students to produce course work with AI input, which might be abused by some, thus undermining the educational impact on a student of that task. Are schools doing enough to prepare students for the very different and more independent study at university and for practicalities of life? When I was at school, the teacher for a session on money just told us it was too complex and let us do what we wanted, so that was useless.
Thank you……all good stuff , as usual .
What a load of nonsense. Universities are struggling financially because inflation has eaten heavily into the money they take from tuition fees. They were set to 9000 and haven’t changed since then. Either the government raises tuition fees to meet inflation or says they’re free and changes the way universities are run.
I think honestly at least in the university system of the USA, we have the problem of the university being a default option that just anyone goes to because that’s the default option and nobody ever says no. The admission standards are in the toilet, which is to say that if you manage to graduate high school, you can go to 4-year university. Add in that our system is paid by loans and you have a system that only the banks can love.
I’ve become much more in favor of the Asian system where only the top students get into university and the rest are sent to various forms of trade schools. This does a lot of things that our system doesn’t: prioritize students who work hard in school and can perform, avoid overtraining students who don’t have the ability or work ethic so when the get lower jobs they aren’t feeling let down, avoids unpayable debt, preserves the rigor and thus the value of a university degree, and avoids over saturation of the degree holder market.
Apprenticeships are far better learn as you work
Love the tasche Michael.
Inside China Business
New University rankings have upended the World, Chinese universities hold 6 of the top 10 spots
It's fraudulent. Chinese universities don't even have freedom of speech.
I did not get what subject the professor is teaching.
Law, and unfortunately there are too many lawyers around. You can't go anywhere without stumbling on one.
disappointing this discourse sits on the right leaning side of politics while the left shun it, its 100% true.
Rah rah rah
Common sense tells those without a degree that those with degrees are likely to lack common sense. This defies my common sense as it comes across as a labelling applied without assessing the person and their history. But, then again, I'm not likely to have much common sense with my 3 degrees. Thank goodness.
I still don't know what common sense means, so obviously I have no common sense.
Psychology Charlotte? I would have thought PPE was more in your line if you could have got into Oxford - I think they call the same blagging Jurisprudence at Cambridge...
There's no way I did my 2nd two degrees with potential 'market demand' in mind, I'm very proud to say.
The secret barrister example of a stupid lawyer
Not the brightest I agree.
I have more degrees than a heat wave in spoffology
I think the intelligent, eloquent gentleman might suit a beard.
The Speccie should have more consideration for viewerd than to impose upon them 'like' filler words users.
It's a scam targeting women.
Gay lien studies wtf
Spectator has disappeared down a right wing Rabbit hole. What next an evaluation of Hitler. Come on.
It's condescending to have two privileged people conspiring to deny opportunities to poorer people that they would not deny their nearest & dearest so that they can have their loos & brickwork fixed & sleep soundly knowing dear old Blighty will be defended by working class cannon fodder.
@@lloydedwards7634 so it’s better they shove workers into 40k of debt to get a job that didn’t require a degree previously.
But yeah let’s just have a slave class of migrant labour to do jobs were too proud to do sure
100%. The message being, leave university to the privileged. Close the doors to the riff raff! Interestingly Tettenborn was one of my lecturers...
That not at all what they are saying . They saying the system needs a reset and that the whole university system has become not what it is intended to be which is higher academic learning and research.
A lot of the degrees and students are Further Education level study.
They also saying students in the West are brought up to think they can be anything rather than thinking sensibly about what is required to meet labour market and what skills.that.will require.
That degrees are not right for everyone but they being sold as the be all and end all and then stidents looking down on those who do not have one.
This leading to lots.of problems with mental.health, disappointment. Difficult for lecturers when students not really academically able or suited.
It all become a business not education and they should return to how things used to be with smaller universities for academic rigour of study as they were intended to be.
Or the same 'working class' can work, get an income avoid debt and get Professional Exams - eventually - and a much higher salary than the Gwads you might think everyone should;d be.
if everyone goes to Uni there is not added value to it and you end up with most people unhappy cos they are not in the kind of job they expected to have -
Childish superficial debate reinforcing silly stereotypes about Woke. Clearly Charlotte did a pointless degree and would be better utilised elsewhere.