House of the Dragon Leak: Nettles & Rhaena Merged?!
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- Опубликовано: 19 май 2024
- #houseofthedragon #gameofthrones #targaryen
House of the Dragon Leak: Nettles & Rhaena Have Been Merged?
Update Video: • House of the Dragon: W... 
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I get the practicality of it but I still can't help be disappointed by the possible loss of such a great character and possibility even the friction in team black.
Yes, the conflict would be more interesting
Realistically if any dragonseed should be cut, it should be ulf😂.
No not Ulf The GOAT 🔥😅
You're right, I always imagined him to be a comic relief character.
Nah ulf the white is the best
@@sit-insforsithis1568 how
It is something to see- the idea of peasant girl riding a dragon is interesting as well as how it provides an insight to the way the old people of Valyria started taming dragons.
A true ‘beggar’ becoming master of the most powerful creature is compelling combined with then how that brings a disruption to the elites and particularly Rhaenyra.
They could still do Rhaenyra and Damon breakdown and maybe rumours begin being spread about him and his daughter which is then believed by Rhaenyra.
Though if they wanted Damon daughters doing something then that could be more pushing towards Nettles being taken by other characters and then it becomes more likely she gone.
I always thought this would happen. The camera focusing on Rhaena when the unclaimed dragons were brought up in the season 1 finale seemed like clear foreshadowing to me. I'm just glad to be getting more Phoebe Campbell at the end of the day so I'll take it.
They could've given her Grey Ghost tbh!
@@EarnestTargenfyre and then have Cannibal killer her and the dragon 😂
Well, if the cut her it means you lose the peasant as a dragon rider that shows off Rhaenyra elitism and also clues to how the people of old Valyria tamed dragons or started too with her building the relationship through feeding.
It’s entirely possible they figured it is going to be too creepy because people already calling Damon a groomer with Rhaenyra.
The idea of a peasant on a dragon disrupting is a good idea but then what causes tension between Rhaenyra and Damon. Well could have the relationship disintegrating and then rumour spread which Rhaenyra believes that is him doing stuff with his daughter.
This is why I say that Hollywood's concern for diversity is entirely performative and superficial. Rather than race swapping characters, they could have given time and attention to a genuinely unique and fan favorite brown skinned girl, but no ... They choose to erase her instead. This is pathetic. 😒
You actually thought they cared? No, its just about taking down whitey
Hi, Jayne! 👋
Yeah… I’m pissed. Nettles was one of the only relatable characters in the dance, grrm himself has stated she’s important to ASOIAF and had planned more for her in fire and blood 2. It’s a waste of a great character in liu of stronk wahman can do no wrong. 😑 fuggin hated the blacks side of the war effort in the books. The woman was a monster and nettles was a victim that survived her wrath like a boss.
Hi Jayne!! Will you be on nerdrotic hotD stream post episode?
My thoughts exactly
DAMN FXCKING RIGHT!!!!
The more I think about it, the more I am okay with the idea of a Rhaena-Nettles merge.
On my best memory of Fire and Blood, Rhaena basically does nothing during the Dance. She sits around and waits for her dragon egg (Morning) to hatch. The same more or less applies to her twin sister Baela, though she and Moondancer do get involved with fighting and losing to Sunfyre in the last days of the war.
That said, aging/sizing up Moondancer gives Baela a weapon to fight in the war with, thus giving her things to do. One of the complaints I heard with Season 1 was the lack of a line from Baela regarding her wanting to do things, or rather her line about wanting to get involved in the fight being cut for run time or something. So, giving her a place in a battle or two is her "doing something" rather than sitting around and waiting for season 3.
The same applies to Rhaena. Instead of having her sit around and do nothing, Rhaena gets merged with a character who would've just conveniently shown up with a dragon at the war's beginning. Giving Rhaena something to do, like claim a wild fighting-size dragon so she can later use it in the next season, eliminates extraneous and frankly budget-eating threads. And yes, I understand Nettles is an interesting character, but giving another character of known and royal descent relevant to the succession crisis an actual arc and things to do - at least to me - is more important than introducing a character who is wholly unknown to anyone who hasn't read Fire and Blood.
I do recognize that merging Rhaena and Nettles potentially eliminates future tension and conflict within the Blacks, and I hope future seasons remedy this. Perhaps The White Worm has something to do with conflict under Rhaenyra's crown, and perhaps that can be the root of a breaking between Rhaenyra and Daemon. Or perhaps the way Rhaenyra and Daemon want to fight and win the war is just different, and that creates conflict. Regardless, Nettles does not have to be the only source of conflict within the Blacks.
Finally, I think House of the Dragon would be less interesting if it stuck purely to Fire and Blood's version of the story. The purpose of the show is to create a similar but unique story, providing new plot twists and rearranging or changing certain events to surprise audiences both familiar and unfamiliar with the book. Things will be changed in adaptation from page to screen, intentional or otherwise.
Also, psychologically, it makes absolute sense that Rhaena would want a pound of flesh from the Greens. They did, after all, kill her betrothed.
Nah dawg this just cope it's a disgusting change from the book
Also it shows how they feel about the peasantry replacing such an amazing character and just giving their story to some noble
Kinda off a bit because Nettles is way of having a peasant become a rider and eludes to how old Valarians tamed dragons.
They likely cut Nettles if have because it be too many more creep points for Damon/Matt Smith might find it uncomfortable.
Then they could do rumours spread of Damon doing stuff with his daughter which then creates the tension in the blacks and Rhaenyra believes it because she remembers what he did when she was young.
Counter point: Fuck that shit. Gibs me my favorite fire and blood character. ☝️🤨
I heartily agree with this take. I really don't get why people are so hung up on things in Fire & Blood being "canon"---because that is literally not the point of Fire & Blood. Plus GRRM is (presumably) literally on board with whatever they're doing, so it's kind of a moot point?
This news is interesting but not gonna get upset on something that hasn't even happened yet. 😶
Good for you! I am still learning that skill from therapy 😅
I still hold that having lower ranking Valyrian houses interbreed with other races is fine in general but makes no sense for the Velaryons prior to Coryls' grandfather's generation due to how often the Targaryens and Valyrians intermarried. If the Velaryons were black before the Doom, then all the Targaryens we've met would have to be black too as they are of mostly Velaryon descent.
I really think they should have established that Coryls's mother and/or grandmother were from the Summer Isles, specifically a Princess of Koj and scion of Malthar the Mapmaker who grew up in the Pearl Palace and around the shipwrights who make most of the world's swan ships.
It's just a show, get over it. It's not like your life depends on it.
I agree. It could make sense having a Velaryon marry a Summer Islander because they are both great at seafaring. Changing the Velaryons ethnicity ruins the effect of the close family bond between the valyrian houses. They were obsessed with genes. Like nazi, gives me Lebensborn vibes. In the show they seem more open. More likeable.
That was also mine and some friends reaction: “can be good, but also can be terribly executed” I have to trust them for season 1 great adaptation and GRRM close proximity with the crew.
GRRM would never allow this. He openly admitted that Nettles is an important character in the ASOIAF universe and he often thought of writing about her more post Dance. Maybe in F&B Part-2.
One good season of quality writting doesn't mean that the entire series of House of the Dragon is going to be good. Look at what happened to game of thrones. We had four good seasons of excellent writing and profound storytelling. Then from season 5 onward, the story began to decline all the way to the trash fire of season 8. It's very foolish of you to trust them after just one season.
I get that they want to push the twins as big players earlier than in the books, but they need to be very very careful with moves like this and Rooks Rest.
Perhaps it’s because they don’t want Daemon to cheat on Rhaenyra and don’t want her to order Daemon’s Death. It’s interesting. But they better have a great explanation.
Wait, there was always a theory that Nettles was a daughter or like a daughter to Daemon. They didn’t have to be lovers. Why couldn’t they use her? Gosh I don’t know, this is quite a risk.
Rhaenyra never orders his death. she orders nettles death.
They are making the Blacks Characters kinda bland
He could cheat with someone else, disobey her, etc.
Thinking logically, rhaenyra knows daemon to his core, he taught her to look for pleasure outside marriage, will it be convincing enough that rhaenyra turns against him only bcoz he slept with some other women. I think they'll cut it n replace it with power dynamic angle btw them as he already thinks she is weak in temperament.
Exactly they want the delusional shippers of Twitter to be happy.
Finally the video I was waiting for!
Me too
This still makes Rhaena the last dragonrider, so it could fit. Instead of Morning she has Sheepstealer.
I dont think that Rhaena end in the Moon Mountains
they'd probably have to kill sheepsteeler off then because i doubt Rhaena as a highborn targaryen would have Nettle's book ending.
No we have to see Morning I'm looking forward to seeing morning her beautiful pink with black horns
Thank you for doing this. I have a similar attitude to you and enjoy your work dissecting everything. So far it’s been a great series with great actors and actresses and I’m sorry as a fan that some of them are going through this especially if I’ve unintentionally aided in the hurtful comments. Thank you Phoebe Campbell, Steve Touissant, Bethany Antonia and all the POC who help make this show great. Heck even Vaemond’s actor was great for the depth he gave the character
Update Video: ruclips.net/video/xzhLpK2M-uM/видео.html
They like foreshadow things since creation of Game of Thrones. That scene of Laena and Raena's conversatin about hatching and claiming of dragons should be that.
The only thing that gives me hope that this will workout is if George gave his permission for this to happen I’m assuming Condal wouldn’t deviate that much without his permission
They already changed so much in season 1, my bet would be that George wants a good story to be told, but he would also want it to be clear that books are a standalone story
The scouring being cut was not something I was fond about because it literally Tolkien whole point with LoTR and by cutting it you created the false impression that he couldn’t do dark. If Peter Jackson had more discipline with two towers and return of the king they could have done it
I actually like the change. I thought rhaena even baela besides her battle with aegon were not involved enough in the war.
Another great comparison of a changed addition from a book to tv from lord of the rings is Arwen/glorfindel. It would have been amazing to see his character on screen but i was never upset with Arwen taking that role.
I was, still hate it.
It's a shame you clearly do not enjoy empowered women or diversity and representation on television.
Now, having watched more of your video and hearing the three options, I have to say I like the idea that Rhaena tries but fails to claim Sheepstealer and we'll later see Nettles successfully claim him. That exact plot happens in the books, only it's Alyn Velaryon who fails to claim Sheepstealer. Since they seemingly made Alyn older, and if I'm interpreting the trailer correctly already heavily focused on his nautical career, perhaps he won't bother attempting to claim a dragon. I don't think it's too convoluded to have Rhaena assume that plot point. I'd far prefer that then having her assume Nettles' entire role (see my other comment). And if anything, going on that disappointing trek to claim a dragon with Rhaena will make her finally hatching Morning all the more satisfying to the audience cause we've watched her struggle. In my opinion lol. Great video.
i can understand from a creative point why they combined these stories, because you have to consider the ending of the characters as well as their intro. most tv audiences will not be satisfied with vague or uncertain endings of characters. i think GoT kind of taught us that tbh.
I always thought Nettles were in fact Daemons bastard daughter and that people only thought they were lovers because of their closeness and not looking related. Raena taking over that role makes sense
i also think if they were given more episodes for s2 they may have been able to include characters like nettles, but considering they only have 8 episodes for a 2nd season i think this was actually the right call. people are already invested in rhaena because of s1, so trying to build the emotional investment in a new character is a lot harder with only 8 episodes in their 2nd season.
I was pretty upset with the news. I actually wanted to stop watching this video when you said that you don't think it would break the story but I'm glad I did watch the rest. I even read fire and blood but was so hyper focused on rhaenyra thinking nettles and daemon were lovers that the book often talks about how caring he treats nettles. Like it's his daughter. With how they set up rhaena in season 1, and daemon didn't pay attention to her as much (from her viewpoint), this actually will make her story arch more tragic and better in my opinion. I'm interested to see where rhaena's story ends now because she plays an important role after the war.
It could still work, what if sheepstealer and seasmoke both take part in battle of second tumbleton and only rhaena makes out alive and by end of the series morning is hatched.
It makes sense to merge them bcoz there is an account of father- daughter relationship btw daemon n nettles and instead of incomplete storyline of nettles wanishing into mist they give it to rhaena
Interesting..
@@Betrayed_King Possible right, coz I dont think show version of sea smoke can kill vermithor😅
@@krishazgada5299 Exactly, he'd need a better partner than Tessarion to take him down, esp a riderless one.
I was hoping she'd claim Vermithor.
Huge mistake if true and makes me question if Condal really understands the fanbase. Nettles is a fan favorite.
Sure she is but she and Damon relationship is also gonna be too creepy for a lot people and he already for many seen as a groomer of Rhaenyra . Combined with if Matt Smith would find it uncomfortable then that could changed stuff
They could have just shown him being a mentor and played on his wife's growing paranoia. @@Henbot
@@HenbotCould be different if they played it differently if they play into Rhaenyra’s paranoia. Not to mention Myseria being entirely untrustworthy.
What if they did the rhaena/nettles arc merger as a way to smoke out the prominent leakers😂 Ryan would be on some Tywin level strategizing 😭
Probably not tho lol
God...i hope...
I would respect that tho
absolutely love you including lotr comparisons w/ game of thrones/hotd! really respect your measured opinion and use of logic on things.
I pretty much agree with everything you said here. It's a change (a big one at that), and it has the potential to be bad, just as much as it has the potential to be good, and I think your analysis is one of the best I've seen on the topic so far. The only point that I feel is missing (and if you want I encourage you to elaborate on it) is about the future implications of this change, in view of the future cinematic universe that they're building.
As you also said during the video, Nettles' character is kind of a meteor: she enters the story with a flash (her taming Sheepsteeler in a very clever way), does a few notable things in the war, and then just disappears. So yeah, I could see the point in merging her with a character like Rhaena, that would otherwise have been a sitting duck until the end of the war. But, exactly *because* in the books they are two distinct characters, they get to have two distinct storylines, and the concern that I have is that by making this change now they might be writing themselves into a corner a few years down the line.
In the books, Rhaena hatches Morning near the end of the war, and by the time Fire & Blood ends, she's still a very young dragon and, importantly, still alive. But we also know that, by the time the main ASOIAF books start, the dragons are all extinct (at least until Dany hatches her eggs at the end of book one). So, from a purely logical standpoint, there must be some story about Morning and her death in the middle, unless GRRM simply decides to kill her off in an anticlimactic way (which I guess is also possible). And with Fire & Blood 2 still nowhere on the horizon, we have no way of knowing what's gonna happen to her. As far as we know, she might be the protagonist of a major storyline in the new book, and I'm afraid that by merging Rhaena and Nettles here, they'll unknowingly create ripple effects and problems down the lines in the future. Thoughts?
Rhaena being Nettles is hardly a surprise. This was more than set-up in the first season. Rhaena will totally dye her hair black and appear in Harrenhal as Nettles.
The whole point of the conversation between Rhaena and Laena in episode 7, about how Deamon doesn't care about her because she doesn't have a dragon, is all about this change from the book.
Furthermore, Laena tells her, that there is more than one way to claim a dragon. So if Rhaena is unable do it through genetics, she might as well can be able to claim one, feeding it whith sheep. Let's not forget, that Aemond claimed the dragon that belonged to her mother and that Rhaena wanted for herself.
They don't even need to cut out, the Rhaenyra jealousy part. As long as she only learns that Deamon spends a lot of time alone, with a very young girl at Harrenhal and never sets eyes on Rhaena/Nettles, it's enough to maintain this specific plot point.
Rhaena as Nettles, even provides an interesting parallel, with Arya time as Weasel in that castle.
This!!
Wow, I´m a big Nettles Fan and was so sad about this rumor, but I like your Idea. This could really work!
Nettles should not be cut, makes no sense
In general, I like the adaptation to be as close to the (spirit of the) book as possible and am not in favor of merging or cutting characters, or changing key historical events/details. However, in this case I think it _can_ work, but it will all depend on the execution. If they combine the characters of Rhaena and Nettles in a clever way and consequently are able to/also develop Rhaena really well (by giving her more to do (and earlier)), it may ultimately be stronger than in F&B. Some changes relative to F&B are outright necessary imo - I admit that this is a radical one (one which I did not expect based on season 1 and all the statements made by Condal) but after thinking about it I'm no longer as opposed to it as I was initially. Hopefully they'll manage to positively surprise us; in any case I try to keep an open mind for now.
The choice gives me some pause but tbh, I’ve never understood why fans like Nettles as much as they do. I think they like the potential of her (someone with potentially no Valyrian ancestry who rode a dragon). But barring a lot of speculation, there’s no really a lot she does
Edit: I do see why POC fans would like Nettles from a representation angle.
Because she’s the only relatable character. A real person. Not some high born noble. Not some war trained knight. A person who had never smelled charred human flesh, heard the screams of the dying, had never known the luxuries now afforded to her; if only she will kill indiscriminately for her captors. Because she was a captive by all means. She had no choice in the matter to say “no” after she had befriended sheepsteeler. She was compelled and conscripted no matter how traumatic it was. How is that not an interesting character? None of that is speculation. It’s all fact supported by text in the book. 🤨
Oh i absolutely agree about the danger posed to phoebe here, and your points are fair about the potential adaptational value of the change. i think wait and see, while controversial potentially, is also like the most levelheaded response you can have atp
If this is true, and only if, this is a major bad decision. Nettles and Daemon's "affair" or whatever you want to call it have deep repercussions on Rhaenyra's downfall, classicism and Valyrian supremacy, the question of dragon binding, and the sowing of the seeds. It is completely unnecessary. But let me stfu until the season plays out.
Yes because Nettles got a connection with Sheepstealer and she has neither Valyrian blood nor dragon blood.
I get the immediate practicality of merging the characters but I'm worried about the snowball effect as the show goes on.
The biggest positive I can see in this merge, if true, is that Daemon will finally get some much needed on-screen bonding time with at least one of his children. They really dropped the ball in this regard in season one...
Also, it could work out with making Rhaenyras decant into madness even more tragic. If she turns into an evil stepmother to Daemons daughters, perhaps growing jealous of their dead mother Laena and starting to believe in the rumor/theory that Daemon only wanted her for power/that he plans to steal the throne from her and her now eldest living son Joffrey.
That would break Daemon, especially if Rhaenyra still goes as far as to order the deaths of his daughters, like she ordered Nettles death in the book. It would still lead him to commit suicide by strongest enemy; facing Aemond and Vhagar over the gods eye. And Rhaena could go rouge for a while, no longer wanting to support her stepmother for obvious reasons, but not wanting to switch sides either, only returning at the end of the dance to support her little brother Aegon III.
Is this the video that got blocked as this doesn't have GRRM interview at the beginning
thanks for explaining
Great video...I agree 🎉
would it maybe have made more sense to merge rhaena w/ baela, if one's going to merge characters?
I take it that Rhaenyra isn't going to order Rhaena's death like Nettles so another of Rhaenyra's worst deeds is being cut, like when she didn't order Vaemond's death and then fed his body to Syrax.
Great vid as always
Let's take a time machine back to 2011 and we find out Robb's wife was changed to a love story, when the ENTIRE point of the story was Robb, after learning his two younger brothers were killed, was in a bad mental state and has sex with Jeyne Westerling and gets her pregnant. In order to not have another situation like his father having a bastard with Jon, he decides to marry her, breaking his promise to marry one of the Frey's after the war and is a KEY part of his character (honor), along with his downfall (Red Wedding). How many people here saying "I'm ok with cutting Nettles" would have been saying the same thing about Robb's wife change? Cause every time they start doing these massive changes for no reason, expect more and more. It is literally a slippery slope. If we let this change happen, what is stopping them from going the full "Sansa r*pe, Stannis and Martells killed, wacky Euron" level changes?
Awesome point!
You are acting like you can do something about it. Before any awful mistakes are made people will still watch the show and defend it, because it is literally the best on the market right now, after those awful mistakes are made it is already too late to fix something. As wievers we can just enjoy the show while it is good, hoping that it will remain so. Of course if you are a billionaire you are welcome to buy right from HBO and do all thing accordingly to the books, I and mayority of the fanbase would appreciate it.
I get why people wouldn't like this change, but for me it's up in the air.
I'm just gonna wait for the season to drop before judging if the change works or not.
I am glad Rhaena has been given something to do at least, they could have done it whithout interfering with another character but these kind of changes have happened before, even in early GOT, remember Arya and Tywin and Robb's romance in season 2?
I hope it leads to something worth the change is all I'm saying.
It has the potential to not ruin the show, but equally the potential to absolutely ruin it. S2 will then be HoTd’s Got S5, and Heaven help us when it goes full s8
We are there already, we've been there from the moment that friendship between Alicent and Rhaenyra was added.
@@janellejulianajoy The smooshing of Joffrey in the throne room was the end of it for me. These new leaks make me glad I stopped watching.
@@HouseTargaryen24601 It was still an amazing show
Thank you for the explanation of WTDASOIAF’s post
I have to say I'm disappointed by this. Nettles was the only black character in the books during this period, so she was special in that regard. But the show then decides to race-swap a group of characters to make them black so their cast is diverse, which diminished Nettles' significance. And now she apparently won't be cast all. So basically the original black character in the story, a black female, was sacrificed to make a a non-black male character (Corlys) black, so his whole family could be filled with black/mixed race actors. I find that to be incredibly sad and a tad disgusting if I'm honest. Steve Toussaint was 100% the right cast for Corlys, and I loved the two actors who played Laenor so I'm ok with the Velaryons being of partial Summer Isles descent; but the show still should've honored the character of Nettles by casting her in her own right. This comes from a half-black woman myself.
I like to think that Nettles didn't have any Valyrian blood because it goes against the Doctrine of Exceptionalism.
She could be of First men descent, Valyrian before there was Valyria?
right move, already established character, crowded cast, and the dragonseeds become less unfamiliar.
But she’s not a dragonseed. She’s a true born Targaryen.
@@AS-ri1mb I know, so now they introduce only 3 new characters, especially with the season being 8 episodes.
What do you think Wake The Dragon meant when they reposted your video with the comment “I just wanna say that I carefully choose the words I put in leak posts for a reason!” (Also thanks for the video!)
Didn’t even consider this, but honestly it would make a lot of sense. Rhaena is already a character and they have to consolidate.
I think you are absolutely right. I also disagree with the decision but if it is well thought out and executed in a good way it could work/won’t ruin the rest of the story. Don’t get me wrong I was super exited for Nettles and if they decide to cut her from the story I would be upset but we shouldn’t judge before we see the full story.
Would have made more sense to just bond Rhaena with the Grey Ghost. He doesn't do anything in the story other than getting killed by Sunfyre.
Exactly!or they could brings Neetles character is season 3 and change her dragon to Grey Ghost by feeding him fish she gains his trust and claims him?
Making the Velaryons black kinda ruins the basis of Nettles character, we have both dark haired and dark skinned dragon riders already so a general audience won't understand what makes her special and Rhaenyra would have no reason to be concerned with her. If they also wanted to cut Rhaenyra ordering Nettle's death out of jealousy to make her more tragic then most of the character is already gone. Without those aspects there's no reason it can't be Rhaena, the romance was just a rumor in F&B, not confirmed.
They would have to make sure emphasize the class & background difference which the general audience would understand pretty quickly I think
Yeah, I thought this a LONG time ago but was afraid to say anything 😂. I knew whenever they cast black actors as the Velaryons that it meant Nettles would most likely not be happening. It's fine.
@@ml.9417 That same culture divide exists with all the other dragon seeds.
Hair color matters more than skin color. The same reason why no one confuses Baratheons for the Tully family.
@@monie3558 In the books we have at least one black haired dragon rider, Rhaenys
yea upon 2nd thought that talk that Rhaena and her mom had lines up with the rumored nettles rhaena merge and Rhaena proving herself to her father. Still sucks that they got rid of a fan fav even if I understand why they did it.
1:23:53 “It is a plot mechanic that they’re lizard people!”
Idk why but that made me cackle 😂
It would be a similar ending for Nettles as they tried to give Arya in the TV show, that could be done well actually 🤔 IDK I want at least someone to have a happy ending I guess
Hi there!
IM dying morning is one of my favs whyyyyyyy plus grey ghost is right there if you wanna use a wild dragon or just make morning an unclaimed wild dragon if you want rhaena to a have a full grown dragon hope its not true love morning and rhaena(think rhaena and daernerys are pretty similar daernerys is the last dragon and rhaena rides one of the last dragons in the world)
new video coming
Trop contente ❤🎉 c’est la meilleure idée de la série 🎉🎉🎉🎉
To be honest it was season 7 episode 5 from that episode onwards I was scratching my head at some scenes cause I was unaware of the books had stopped and was caught in The hype lol tarlys burned to death, Jaime surviving and dragon brought up from the lake in chains and run gendry run lol
As a nonbinary person and also certifiable hater™ I love how this channel speaks of the nonbinary members of the cast with respect but also makes sure everyone knows he super doesn't respect Benioff and Weiss 😂 got his priorities right imo 👍
The Mushroom character is not in the show and the story was fine. I’m going to be open minded about the possible changes to the Nettles character.
I thought remember you covering the reason or someone saying that they did the Jayne Pool change because they said that they didn’t think anyone would care if they did it with another character so that was part of the reasoning from DnD with Sansa storyline. Still was awful execution of the idea for sure
Dude no one should be going at you about pronouns 🤔 D’Arcy is non binary but her character ain’t. Reality is English language needs an actual word for it instead of they which don’t really make grammar sense. Saying names probably easier anyway but their characters can still be she
There’s nothing like perfect strangers who want to feel good about themselves correcting your grammar. Dragon goes out of his way to be kind and conciliatory. That’s out of line
Emma's a woman, we need to stop humouring these delusions
Another consequence of the Velaryon race swap - merging the story of the only confirmed non white dragonrider with another character. Also there were rumors going around that Jace is gay to avoid the idea that he chose the pale skinned Sara over the dark skinned Baela. I get that HBO was worried about ratings and wanted prominent black characters (specifically dragonriders) but I knew that it would cause story problems like removing the ambiguity around Rhaenyra's children.
Clickbait rumors
@thedragondemands5186 We'll see. Again, I wouldn't be surprised.
@@EvanSol919 specifically Jace/Cregan is pure clickbait
I bet they cut Sara because they didn't want a normal 'whytee relationship'
@@Hero_Of_Old Optics
Could it be possible she claims morning or grey ghost as plot boost for another underutilized wild dragon.
While I agree that this, in isolation, doesn't "ruin" the series, I do think it is a bad sign of things to come. As you say, it's important to remember that Fire and Blood, Princess and the Queen, and other source material that House of the Dragon is drawing from are outlines that are not fully narrativized. This is acceptable for what they are, namely supplementary material meant to add to the main A Song of Ice and Fire novels. They can not, however, stand on their own as written, nor can they form the core narrative for a the flagship show of a cinematic universe without significant fleshing out. The only viable option available to the show runners is to expand on the material that Martin gave them. And for season one of House of the Dragon, they mostly succeeded at doing that.
But this, if true, is the opposite of expanding. It is contracting. And considering that the dominant business model in the entertainment industry at the moment seems to to slaughter the geese that lay the golden eggs -- that is, to milk their intellectual properties for all their worth by releasing low quality content until all residual audience good will is exhausted -- well, let's just say I've been expecting something like this for a while now.
Also, I disagree with the idea that cutting a "POC" character can be compensated by adding different POC characters elsewhere. The implication being that all POC characters are interchangeable, which I for one find deeply offensive. That is tokenism at it's worst.
Okay, is this going to ruin the show for me if true…why would it? It’s an adaptation of a book that is based on multiple narrations (therefore somewhat unreliable) that is also more of a glorified mega-summary of history than an account-for-account story. It is also being heavily condensed for mass audience consumption. Shows aren’t made just to people please canonical purity. We know this anyway as so many novel adaptations do this for pacing, budget and condensing or just outright creative differentiation. LotR trilogy as highlighted did this with quite a number of things. Is it still considered the most successful high fantasy film series of all time…yes. The two part Dune films, did similar things (merge roles, omit plot points, change them entirely). Are the films overall well-liked? Yes, part two has been praised heaps. Rhaena claiming Sheepstealer doesn’t actually phase me at all. From a practical perspective, this would work as a way to condense and merge a role for mass audiences while saving time having to introduce a new character in a story with heaps of characters already. I’m fine with it. I find book purist attitudes in adaptations is a bit of a self-defeating notion. It’s an adaptation. Artistic license goes into effect the moment a story is presented in a new form. They don’t even really need to justify a change to purists, if they want to change things; they can and will. The show has already made changes, made additions and omissions, heck all the kids are aged up (again! But for obvious reasons). Some mediums have had their entire endings changed, whether for better or worse. If Condal and Martin can voice a logical reason for this change if true, then great, rationale helps to accept a change. But is it going to ruin my opinion / enjoyment of the show? Definitely not. If this is true, it actually works (in a larger context) comparable to Arwen / Glorfindel in FotR film. It worked, I didn’t bat an eye at the change. Why does change always have to be treated as potentially ruining everything? Nettles is a just a bit of a curiously fun side-character. Nettles does just disappear. Rhaena actually becomes prominent at the end. So this checks out for me as a change. It’s not bizarrely random or for the sake of it. Scouring of the Shire (would have been fun to see but the rationale was completely sound and worked in favour of the version of the story presented), would not have fit in the films, I agree with Jackson, for mass audiences it would have been ‘erm…wtf? I thought the movie was about to end?’ Books have a lot more time to say and do a lot more. As a form of character merging / condensation - this works, whether book fans like it or not. Remember there are all the people out there who haven’t read it and won’t bat an eye at the change. There are changes I’ve seen that actually surpass the source material for me (Dune part 2 actually had a small handful of these). I think overanalysing these kinds of things just breeds too much internal conflict in expectations, at the end of the day, it’s a tv show. I remember my best friend throwing a tantrum about The Witcher Netflix show and all the things ‘wrong’ with that. I hadn’t read the books and only briefly played the Witcher 3 and Gwent. My opinion of whether it was good or bad was entirely formed by what it presented to me in of itself (it was…okay, I suppose) but I judged it on its own merits. I’m sure Condal, Martin and all the team want to please the fans and book purists, they showed this with how much they put into season 1, I’m confident if this change is true, it probably has a good enough reason. I usually really enjoy these videos but this topic was too ‘ranty’ and repetitive for me. Which is not something I expect from these videos at all, they’re usually fun to listen to. This was not.
Sounds like cope but you do you
That Laena-Rhaena scene is to show her eggs did not hatch until much later. It hatches near the end of the show.
This is so wrong so many people are looking forward to seeing nettles some say she won't be in it till season 3
Mabye nettles could still appear and take the cannibal as her dragon. Since the cannibal also disappeared at the end of the war just like nettles and sheepstealer
Or grey Ghost he gets killed by sunfyre in the book, might as well make him more useful in the show?
I think this was a mistake. Rhaena doesn’t need to really do anything except stay out of it. She isn’t and wasn’t supposed to be that vital. Only after the dance does that change. Nettles on the other hand you had a lot of opportunity to show more sides of Daemon.
Fuck HotD now. I don't care about it. They changed too much for the worse.
I very much hope that the leak is not true.
3 or 4 seasons was their plan since day one
Nettles doesnt actually matter in the book, She really does only have maybe 9 whole lines and all of them are 3rd person.
She is very important
You need to re read the book then. Ur just straight up wrong 😑
Holding out hope we get needles but anyone who knows the story and has heard the details of these leaks. It looks like they pulled another game of thrones on us and merged more characters. I absolutely fuckin hated when game of thrones did that!!! Sooooo annoying and lazy writing.
Personally hoping this character merger does not happen. HotD as an adaptation of F&B has overall been adhering to the text fairly well , but even dealing with multiple conflicting accounts theres already been some questionable choices. More accidental spin on Aemond killing Luke, Rhaenys casual killer of innocents and potentially the most problematic yet Laenor's survival which could give rise to lore bending via the dragon-bond (Seasmoke), among others. Though cutting / merging Nettles could eclipse all of those. I don't completely rule it out being able to somewhat work but i wouldn't agree with the change. Not only who Nettles is as a character and what she represents but she plays a key role in other character dynamics , especially between Rhaenyra and Daemon. Yes we've had dark haired , black and even black female dragon-riders already. But huge difference regardless Nettles is from the streets with a very rough upbringing and able to claim a ferocious wild-dragon who never had a rider (only example we know of this thus far) with no instruction or magic , especially given Nettles' overall life / journey is all the more impressive.
And if they go with Rhaena in Nettles' stead probably going to sanitize Rhaenyra / her actions late in the DotD and imo HotD has already sanitized and given almost too sympathetic a portrayal of Rhaenyra and Allicent. This conflict should very much be highlighting these characters' flaws and ruthless ambition. Also , given we know Rhaena's arc doesn't go there later in life, the whole fire witch in the mountain concept would likely be cut ? Not that we would ever see it on screen but another needless lore change.
This possible merger could potentially work but i am not personally for it. It gives rise to potential unnecessary changes to the lore and potential unneeded problems to solve.
Indeed: potentially not ruin it…but I personally wouldn’t have chosen this
Just trying to make Rhaenyra a saint
Well she’s hardly a saint. She had 3 bastard children. She should never left Kings Landing in the first place.
IF this is true-it works and it also means rewatch GoT show. There IS a Dragon in the Vale. There might be 2 dragons there now after Winterfell burns, in text. This is telling me that how I see the spoken word storyline is...yeah. There are Dragons in the Vale hiding in the current story/books. The Vale is also The Veil. The Shadow Dany has to pass UNDER is at the Vale/Veil or at Harrenhall or at the wall or thru the door in the Balerion's mouth, bt as of now until I finish listening to the books, it 'looks' like the Vale Gate. Harrenhall is the Gate Hub. I just...Nettles is her own person is the Thing in text. She is not affilated to anyone but her dragon now. in text-she becomes a Sheep Stealer to seduce Sheep Stealer. Somehow, Sheep Steeler becomes a real person through Nettles and she becomes real through Sheep Stealer. It matters to the story, this relationship. the Dance of Dragons in text is not about their Riders. Nettles is both sides of one coin and she matters as her own character as she literally is a new creation/being. The Thing is..there is another creation happening UNDER the sea in this show. This merge CAN work but...it is WORK. LOOk at the props in this show-you have to see wtf I am talking about here, right? These books-they are all spoken word as much as they are written. And here, we get visuals. There are 2 sides to one coin and 2 sides to all stories. the TRUTH is said to be the 3rd...but here, in these books, the author recognizes that there is a 4th side. The truth can be changed, buried, hidden no matter what if the person who needs to hide has the means to do so. And if you want the truth, YOU have to look for it and dicover it. Bite it and taste it like coin...or a dish served hot or cold. Is it revenge, that dish? Or will it truly nurish you? When the 3rd is the truth, and that Truth is also a fire-breathing Dragon who kills any who stand up to it? That is NOT real truth is it? It is the Dragons who do not want to war-look at THEM. The truth will usually die in silnece-we only want to believe the light of truth will expose it. We have to MAKE the light shine in for the lies to be exposed and the shadows to die. You have to bring walls DOWN to unite-NOT buld them.
I’ll never understand the people that thought season 5 and 6 were any good.
Why
This I could live with.
The complete removal of Daeron/Tessarion is what has me biting my nails.
Daeron is happening. Olivia Cooke confirmed that by the lore of the show her character has 3 sons, that happened on some interview not so long ago.
As a blackman, i don't have a problem with them possibly merging Rhaena with Nettles' storyline. I believe they are obviously going for Daemon to treat Nettles as a daughter and not as a lover. Rhaenyra if she wants to kill his daughter instead of his lover, that would hurt Daemon even more , so we need to see if this is true, i am about 95 percent sure this is the case, i want to give them a chance to see what their plans are.
That would make the whole plotline not make sense. Why would Rhaenyra get so jealous of her niece/stepdaughter? If they end up merging this storyline it would just show that this is just an alternate universe not a true telling.
I’ve been screaming that since episode one. Welcome to the party. If they don’t want to adapt the story and want to do their own thing, cool. Go do it. If not, just adapt the fucking story! These show runners are NOT smarter than the author!
I think they do well to change the story, because Nettles ends up disappearing with Sheepstealer after being with Daemon, the two say one last goodbye and no one knows where she went and they want to change that so that Rhaena has more of a story. In the book, she doesn't take part in the war and she brings three eggs to the Vale, one of which ends up hatching the one she calls Morning, but he's too small for her to ride and fly and take part in the war.
That account has been wrong before tho I doubt they wrong about this one.
They are also delusional and biased.
@@EarnestTargenfyre yea definitely biased when it comes to what she like and not lol she was saying that rhaenyra wasn’t with daemon in season 2 in harrenhal then reports came out of Emma and Matt being there. It’s a green account not neutral so take things with a grain of salt for sure especially if it has anything to do with Alicent/rhaenyra because she loves them and daemon/rhaenyra because she hates them
@@Caraxes_RoguePrince Yeah she started the whole Rhaenicent shit!
@@EarnestTargenfyre i wouldn’t say she started it cuz it was a thing before her but she definitely try to make it popular and constantly lying about it…its funny because she has been mocking rhaenyra and luke deaths on twitter but she claim to be a rhaenyra fan 🤣
@@Caraxes_RoguePrince She is also strongly against Sara Snow and wants Jace and Cregan to be in a gay relationship 😂
Why are people so obsessed with Nettles not being Rhaena? Ask yourself this. She does nothing but pry for a dragon in the book… making her character useless for the rest of the show while paying her???! And then bring in a new character who does amazing things but doesn’t really do anything after the war.. plus a lot of book readers FORGET that the book isn’t 100% true. (Even GRRM says this) I think this change makes sense. BOOK READERS! The book is done! These changes are not made up story lines like the end seasons of GoT. The books are written and the Arther is approving all the changes, (given us the truth since the books didn’t) GET OVER IT!
I can’t wait for season two
The author doesn’t approve of all the changes. He isn’t involved in the production of the show. D&D had the excuse of not having source material, Condal doesn’t have such excuse.
if they got a five they can easily stole rhaenas dragon sheepstealer by nettles by giving him sheeps. They can still put morning in the show if they given a five season.
That's not how dragon bonds work
I love the show so far. Dare I say I feel like Season 1 of this show felt better to me than Season 1 of GOT (dont crucify me for that opinion lmao)
However, I think the Daeron issue is kind of hard to ignore. Even in Thrones its kind of difficult for me to think of an oversight as big as Daeron not being shown/mentioned/referred to in any way.
Even if he gets introduced and his character is great... I feel like thats just a problem lol.
Season 1 was amazing because it was way more in line with the F&B book and was following the book canon.
Yeah Rhaenyra is shaping up to be their ideal female leader, removing all the conflict that portrays her on a more realistic awful light, adaptations that have clear favourites suck as casting away the complexities of the narrative to benefit the blacks and Rhaenyra is an offence for any fan that wanted the full war with Maegor with tits and her failures.
Choosing this route just discourages many of us further, we'll see how things go (Wake the Dragon is a trustworthy source at the very least so doesn't look good) but as impartiality fades the quality of the narrative does too, gives us the whole tragedy not the fucking bits that erase all the fun.
What about Morning?Georgehas already said Rheana's egg will hatch! This is lame I hope this isn't true.
They keep making illogical mistakes , this is why you shouldn't employ directors who don't know how to write only make scenes from books
Rhettles
Why is almost the main cast almost turning all black even tho westerns is based in Europe which is majority white especially considering the Westerosi people don’t like dark skinned people 🤔🤔🤔
I understand their decision. Nettles is not that important and it's better to use the characters they have rather than have them doing nothing and introduce too many new characters.
Lol 😂
She has little relevance to the larger story I agree
I hope they don't merge, I like the Nettles is Leaf idea.
I want more magic in this show.
So the writers make a big deal about diversity. Yet, the moment they have the opportunity to cast a canonical black character, they all of a sudden decide to ditch her in favour of a race swapped character. Nothing against Velaryons being black, but cutting out a black character doesn't exactly make for a good look.
Comment makes zero sense, they have more than one black character, try again.
Yall act like sheep stealer wasn’t in the back of rhaenyra. Vermithor was less ugly and brown