PMQs reaction, Nat Con gets shut down and Rishi Sunak's ban on smoking | PoliticsJOE reacts
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- Опубликовано: 16 апр 2024
- We analyse the first PMQs back from Easter recess alongside Tuesday's vote on banning smoking for people born after 2009 and the National Conservatism conference getting shut down by the Mayor of Brussels.
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can we talk about how ludicrous our parliament is? They literally sit there heckling each other, reciting scripted puns and dodging the questions. It is laughable and embarassing. We need a new system, this playground politics clearly isn't working.
Agreed, behave like that in any business and you'd be out on your arse before lunchtime. Bunch of fucking kids.
agreed, so deeply unserious - we deserve better
Or they could at least go the full distance of other parliaments where fist fights break out every week.
I'm not even from the UK, I just follow UK politics exactly because it's so bonkers. Started paying attention around Brexit because of what a spectacle it was.
Couldn’t agree more
When I think far-right now it is not skinheads, but rather Braverman, Orban, Farage, Truss, Trump, Patel and Bannon.
The image of the far-right has been suits and ties for almost a decade now, outright self-admitted Neo-Nazis like Richard Spencer moved the movement's public face to such in the mid 2010s, at least for their leaders and speakers.
Far right _ I think of Hitler and the National Socialist workers party.
Pro-authoritarianism
Pro-conservatism
Pro-colonial
Pro-death penalty
Anti LGBTQ
Anti gender equality
Anti democratic
Anti diversity
Why are such persectives considered to be negative when particular ( mostly white western ) individuals seem to align with them, but when *millions* of people of a particular faith align with them, they are immune from criticism and welcomed into this country with open arms?
Haha. My innocent comment was deleted. Why am I not surprised.
@@stevejacobs9320 : Except they were far-left, 3rd position socialists. The complete opposite of Far-right.
I’m seriously considering setting up some crowd funding with the main objective being to get Ed some sustained direct sunlight.
As a Scot, this is deeply offensive. To wish death on an innocent young man is just cruel
I just wanna point out, Sunak says "SNP's obsessing with independence" ummm, did the conservatives not have an obsession and have a referendum because of an obsession for independence which has since gone horrendously?
Once a referendum is held, respect the decision. Same with brexit
@@sunny96789 Yep, because no matter what damage a decision has caused, we should never be able to re-evaluate it with additional information, because that would make too much sense wouldn't it? You live every mistake you make right? You never go back and correct an error in judgment? Makes sense
It's funny cos it's true. Every argument they made against Scottish independence during that referendum applied to UK staying in the EU (and vice versa)
@@mrdaveythebaby Literally, I was screaming watching it like how can you be that much of a fucking dunce 🤣🤣
@@sunny96789 Westminster said that if we stayed in the union we wouldn’t be pulled out of the EU, where has trusting English politicians got us?
The entire country voted majority stay and yet our will was ignored. We’ve had 3 unelected PM’s since, all of which have been liars and show open contempt for the SNP and the Scottish people. This goes for Labour as well when it took one of our 3 opposition days in the whole year to push their own modified agenda cause the SNP made them look like the genocide complicit Tory wannabes that they’ve become under Starmer.
I am no diehard SNP fan believe me. But to argue that things don’t look vastly different now is insane. I didn’t get a chance to vote in the first referendum and I would personally like a voice in Scotland future, which in my opinion looks much brighter away from the sinking ship that is Westminster
Ed streaming Dune 2 while co-hosting the podcast is very unprofessional
Why is Ed dressed like a member of a pop band from 1994?
He's a very confused individual
It's no longer 1994? Wow - time flies don't it.
I prefer his tealy jumper. Still like to know where it is from.
I did ask for a comment…
He said Maybe….
We like it
Truss remains for the Labour Party the gift that keeps on giving. Not only highlights how deranged the Tory party is but underscores Rishi's weakness as the PM who's lost control of his party.
Well done Ava on being frank about smoking, as an ex smoker its truly hard to be honest with yourself about it.
PMQ's is a disgrace on this nation. It's nothing but childish point scoring & makes me embarrassed to be English.
How can we expect the rest of the world to take us seriously when this is how our leaders act?
Plenty of countries with no opportunities for the opposition to consistently hold the government of the day to account in a public setting; constructively challenging which system of government you would prefer the UK to mimic instead or are you lobbying for changing the rules for PMQ?
@@Boghopper9999 it's the conduct in parliament I want changed.
The point scoring pettiness & the braying & jeering makes PMQ's sound like a schoolyard argument.
Rather than answer questions it's non stop deflection that reminds me of being back at school in the 80's where kids would shout "You smell & your mum dresses you funny".
I've always hated the jeering & braying, we're supposed to be a civilised society but that doesn't say civilised to me.
When faced with difficult questions how often do we hear a comeback from our PM like "at least I know what a woman is" or some other banal reply.
Rather than having this snide point scoring I'd like for our PM to actually answer the questions (this goes for past PM's like Boris as well).
I've followed PMQ's for many years & to be honest it's a farce.
I believe in leading by example & PMQ's does not set a good example
@@missyprime8198 I disagree entirely. Politics is not supposed to "all nice and quiet and quaint" - it's supposed to be loud at times, brutal, disagreements. It's natural. PMQs is good because it gives viewers an insight into character and debating of both the PM and opposition leader. I wouldn't have it any other way. I prefer our system, especially compared to the American congress style. Their system is like watching paint dry and likely in turns reduces the amount of people that actually watch it. At least with PMQs, is lively, see the debating style, and get a hint of policy that is on the table.
What the fuck is Lindsey Hoyle doing in that seat? Substitute teacher energy for days.
What's worse is how corrupt he is. So clearly biased and unsuitable.
Hunt reportedly avoided stamp duty on the sale of flats, I believe that was what Starmer was talking about as his second example.
Put Ava on nicotine patches and I reckon she could go a whole pod without saying something pro tobacco
Legalise DMT; no debate... nonchalant. Legal age 104.
Now I’m imagining giving DMT to the 104 year old I used to work with in a care home 😂
Going hard at 105 and nobody can stop me
Hi, work on an orthopaedic ward in the north east england, just wanted to say nhs hip replacement waiting list here is not anywhere close to 10 years as far as I'm aware. Longer wait is 1-2 years, some people get it within a few months, depends on what surgeon you get referred to, their schedule, if you've had a different joint done with them already so your foot's already in the door, so on.
I totally take the point that 2 years is still way too long for what can be a debilitating, extremely life-limiting and dangerous state to be living in with a severely arthritic hip, and maybe it is 10 years in other regions, just wanted to provide a bit of context there.
To Ava's point, the OBR estimates in 2023/24 taxes on tobacco will raise £10.4bn, whilst costs to the NHS and Social care will be £3.7bn, so yeah where does the £6.7bn hole get covered from?
By taxing vapes
It's more complex than that.
1. VAT should be removed as it is likely to be gained on whatever people do with their spare money
2. Indirect costs
It's a long-term policy btw. It's not gonna be immediate, it will be gradual.
love podcast hate nonsense it's the politics Jew podcast ladies and gentlemen
(uh oh, subtitler going a bit alt-right)
31:39 This was the mayor of the specific suburb where it was being held, not the mayor of all of Brussels. This is significant because of the point that this was an extremely junior political figure making this call.
Only people in the 'Westminster Bubble' use the phrase 'Westminster Bubble'.
Do we not do Food Tech in all schools? All the ones I’ve worked/studied in have had a Food Tech or Catering department
Ava that's such a ineffectual argument. Those smoking tax numbers can be changed as easy as applying a dollar value to something unvalued like reducing the cost on the environment from removing all the cigarette filters tossed all over the place. Or improving the lives of children when parents don't smoke indoors and puff directly into their vulnerable little faces. Smoking is only detrimental to people's lives and nobody should be able to profit off selling combusted inhailable carcinogens.
Her argument is absolutely terrible. How about "quality of life years"?
Sunak referred to Lord Ashcroft. Billionaire.
Prime ministers questions, the adult version of "no, youuuuu!"
“I love smoking”. Meaning “I’m chemically addicted to nicotine and I’m also hooked on the endorphins I get when my urge to consume it is suddenly satiated as soon as I light up”. It’s not love, it’s being uncomfortable then feeling relief.
There is a social element too, to be fair
@@tobypettit6417 If that was the case why do the tobacco companies lace them with extra nicotine to keep it addictive?
...
Not The Nine O'clock News had a great Mel Smith sketch with him being hunted by military for having a cigarette
I've got to say that I'm a Texan who is now enthralled by UK politics. I hold you all responsible.
27:17 On the Sugar tax: it isn't simply the case, as Ave puts it, of a small number of people eating too much sugar and getting ill and costing the NHS. It is the very poor being systematically targeted through advertising and marketing by the big multinationals with a cheap and highly addictive. substance. Around my way it has become totally normalized to see middle aged people using motor scooters because their diabeetus has meant their legs have needed to be amputated. The big food companies and their tactics will soon come to be viewed just the same way we have long viewed tobacco companies, and the way we have recently started to view Betting companies. To be clear these companies are targeting vulnerable people this way because it is profitable for therm to do so. Simply asking them not to is not going to float. Making hi-sugar content foods less profitable is the the only way they will change their behaviour. The sugar tax along with the bans on advertising, and marketing, are part of that process.
Tax from smoking is about £10billion, cost to the NHS is about £17billion.
Quite coherent. Go yous.
I only started watching a few weeks ago, you guys are really inside joke heavy and usually cover about 2 mins of politics at a time, followed by 8 mins of mocking each other or discussing Dune. that cycle repeats about 4 times leaving about 8 mins of actual politics discussion per episode xD Some might call it a criticism but ive been diving through your backcatalog and loving all of it and your personalities. Love the podcast, hate nonces.
The problem from a Conservative pov was not that Truss cut taxes it’s that the tax cuts were unfunded.
The relationship between Carhartt and politics Joe is an interesting one. It is brand that is always cool without ever being too flashy, 'fashiony' or showy. Its workwear roots seem to resonate with a class of young (ish) urban Britain's who are liberal, left of centre, relatively rich in cultural capital, and ether aspirational upper working class, or first generation middle class. It is ubiquitous among Londoners who work in the arts and music for instance.
This comment brought to you by Carhartt Manufacturing Company Limited.
“Carhartt- the choice of the liberal Londoner”
Man Sol Campbell's son doesn't half talk some sense!
UK parliament is giving stand-up comedy battle vibes and not a serious place for discussions/finding solutions.
Ya know PMQs is not the only thing that happens in Parliament. PMQs is only just 1 hour per week - lots of debates on bills between the commons and the lords happen in between
@@ecnalms851 judging by the current situation in the country, none of those debates make any sense or bring solutions. They only laugh at each other and destroy people's lives.
Not surprising you overestimate how much people care about immigration if you spend all your time at Reform conferences, Ava…
You're out of touch if you think people don't care about immigration. Part of the reason Brexit happened was immigration. Illegal immigration right now. The far right parties in Europe is rising right now partly due to immigration. Just look at what happened to Lampedusa, Italy. Look at what happened in Cologne, Germany 2015 on New Years Eve. Look at Sweden and gang-crime. Look at Netherlands and the election of PVV. I'm guessing you're one of them left-wing voters who is probably middle class and think you're in touch with what people think as you're on the left side of the political spectrum, but actually have no bloody clue. If I got your characterisation wrong, then I apologise. But you're still wrong as evident from elections.
The other priorities for Scottish people would ve addressed by independence.
there's a vape cafe in Leeds lol
Haha goldenboi lost his phone😂
Back in the day all the important business discussions were taken whilst in the smoking area
I know most of the Tories will be looking for a new job after the next election, but they are a disgrace.
"A small group of people who are making themselves extremely ill and costing the NHS a lot of money" is a crazy take for not supporting the principle behind the sugar tax. You can debate the efficacy of the policy (and I think the evidence for and against is seemingly limited), but I don't think the health principles behind its introduction were wrong. 'The Health Survey for England 2021 estimates that 25.9% of adults in England are obese and a further 37.9% are overweight but not obese' - given that obesity and being overweight significantly increase the risk of other illnesses and diseases (cancer being the classic example), I think minimising the health risks of being overweight by acting as if it's not a widespread issue probably isn't the stance I'd have taken.
I agree. I imagine the same argument could be applied to the NHS more broadly - a minority of people use the majority of NHS services, some of whom are "doing it to themselves" through poor lifestyle choices, but I wouldn't propose scrapping the NHS!
Didn't realise we were joined by famous DJ 'Ed Again'
Ed I very very vaguely knew you and in the queue to the library cafe in Edinburgh I saw you and called you a tory then turned away and ignored you, I'm sorry. You're a nice guy, I was young and misguided. I now watch this podcast consistently and I like all three of you, but Ed, you're the best. Take care.
I know people on benefits taking out loans to pay for health care for their kids because the NHS can't provide it any more.
Higher tax is worth it if one isn't put in that situation
The Tories really lit up after the question like an away end after not getting a goal in 10 games
Where is Oli?
The way things are going ithink I'll volunteer to go to Rwanda I've lived under a corrupt goverment for so long here now I won't notice the difference
It's warmer too 😋
Ava, who did your make-up on Sky? Jackson Pollock?!
Non-smokers are entitled to “comfort breaks” as well, but of course your employer doesn’t want you to know that
End all food and drink deliveries into the Borough of Westminster.
Stop feeding the beast.
That's like having thatcher back
Not gonna lie, as disappointed as I've been with Labour and Angela Rayner's compliance with their nonsense, any Conservative acting outraged over £3000 of capital gains on a house less than a couple of years out of Nadhim Zahawi literally having to pay back millions in dodged tax and fines -- and this was a guy who was running for Conservative Leader for crying out loud -- is beyond ridiculous.
By taxing vapes ?
What do you mean you covered everything? Galloway made his first contribution today
Second
Gotta admit, I personally feel Ava has such a smoking biased blind-spot... We non-smokers find smoking just as disgusting as you find vaping
The NatCon Conference is run by the Edmund Burke Foundation, a think tank led by Yoram Reuben Hazony (born 1964). He is an Israeli-American philosopher, Bible scholar, and political theorist. He is president of the Herzl Institute in Jerusalem and serves as the chairman of the Edmund Burke Foundation.
The Herzl Institute is a Jerusalem research institute and training center dedicated to intellectual renewal, content development and capacity building in the following core areas:
Jewish Political Thought
Jewish Philosophy and Theology
History of Jewish Ideas in the Christian and Islamic Worlds
History of Zionism and the State of Israel
Is Ava the new Holly Valance?
28:14 they did have prohibition once before but didn’t last
Vaping is lame, I feel so lame when I vape in public 🤣
I remember when the smoking ban for indoors came in, and when being debated on TV etc one of the main talking points was that the tax brought in was greater than the cost to the NHS.
This turned out to be a lie, based on cherry picked figures heavily promoted by the smoking lobby. I can't imagine that has changed much.
Vapes need a lot more regulation, particularly with regards to how they are marketed and labelled.
Most vape fluids present their nicotine levels like they are low, but are actually close to the maximum legal limit, and more than you'd receive from the equivalent time spent inhaling cigarette smoke.
As for the sugar tax, the biggest problem with this is that the general replacement for sugar has been sweeteners- many of which are worse for the average person than the sugar was.
Personally, I have intolerances for Aspartame and Acesulfame K, which trigger my asthma and eczema, and thus I have had to give up almost every soft drink I used to be able to have.
Need just in: Ava doesn’t understand what nicotine is
This show is far better when Ollie isn’t on it. I might subscribe if this continues.
LOVE PODCASTS HATE NONCES IT'S THE POLITICS JOE PODCAST LADIES AND GENTLEMEN!!!!
what did Ed do to piss off Ave before the start of this podcast?
Oi 1930s prisoner, I like the Carhartt
What is the origin of the “love podcasts, hate nonces” intro?
The show was originally called the 'pubcast' and in that vein the intro is a reference to one of the 'Norf FC' meme formats "love greggs, luv me Mrs, hate nonces, simple as".
Tax on cigs- you need to remove VAT and then it balances. People will buy other stuff and the gov vet vat on that instead
Ed at 30:26 accidentally says ''you get a free rape'' instead of '' free vape'' and I was amazed Ava didnt rinse him for it!
Tax sugar not work
Do you know what I think, I think Sunak is going to do the smoking ban without considering the tax crater, and I think Labour will recoup it by legalising marijuana and taxing it
I get Ava's point on the smoking hypocrisy. It's the typical situation where the Conservatives are allowed to do whatever they want with no scrutiny while anything Labour so much as proposes is immediately shot down with questions of how is this possible, usually in a question of where's the money coming from.
But this is a long established issue with both our media and the opposition party as a whole. Starmer could easily throw this question back at Sunak, btu why would he when his role in the establishment is to protect the Conservative policy? Hence why almost all his attacks are situated on the cultural side and paying lip service to the working class. Meanwhile, we all know why the media never throws this policy criticism the Conservatives way. And it's not even just the hypocrisy on budgeting. For a side that always touts how small government and being pro-freedom of whatever thing they're alking about, trying to control people's recreational habits is anything but that. And this is from a non-smoker who's always resented how not taking up that vice means I get shafted out of the given 5minute smoking breaks in the morning and afternoon afforded those who do smoke.
tf i did just start listening to the podcast about a month ago
Sorry Ava, smoking and vaping are equally bad. You say its unthinkable that people could smoke indoors but you cant extend that to just outside the door too?
shots fired at CEX 😆
I’m rather embarrassed to admit that I’ve been listening for a couple of months and always thought the intro was love politics hate nonsense 😅. Luckily I also agree with the real one
They way they all yell and insult each other is so embarrassing
It's true that smokers get more breaks.
Correction: Vaping is still lame
Might be, but it’s incredibly hard to wane off of nicotine, and the physical improvements you feel vaping compared to smoking are pretty incredible. You feel much less lethargic and ill. That, and you don’t smell like death.
I regret ever lighting a cigarette in the first place, but vaping is miles better
She missed the point of smoking. The years spent in ill health doesn't just save money in the NHS but it means you can actually work and also not die early. I'm pretty sure the tax we end up paying, the fact that you can work all through life and therefore things we are able to buy and afford will outweigh the tax from cigarettes....because we can contribute to society and the economy.
Oli is back from his workplace harassment course next show then
On the smoking ban costing, I don't think the argument of whether the Tax raised is higher/lower than the cost to the NHS matters.
Even with the ban, the vast majority of the country is still going to be able to smoke for the next few decades.
Given that the costs to the NHS mainly come from older longer smokers, the cost to the NHS from smoking isn't going to change for 30-40 years.
On the other hand, the Tax revenue from the sale of tobacco will go down immediately and keep decreasing year on year as the number of smokers slowly decreases.
To be honest it's the ultimate exercise in kicking the can down the road. There's a huge bill to pay, but it probably won't be noticeable for a decade or so.
Pretty bad take from Ava on the smoking ban.
Rishi is so desperate to do a "sick burn" type thing, it's really pathetic. Like, Keir's being a bit of a prat with it but he *is* leader of the opposition it's essentially part of the job...
Really? What smoking stats are you referencing here? When I've seen previous stats trying to quantify productivity loss it's describing sick days etc. not adding up the time spent taking smoking breaks. Which does cost the country significantly more than the tax revenue brings in.
That doesn't change the substance of your argument (the direct costs to the government are clearly lower than the tax revenue - so there will be an impact to their budget), but i think you're underplaying the impact.
I'd also refute the claim that a small minority of the country eat unhealthy amounts of sugar. A small minority become enormously obese, but almost two thirds are overweight - which is enough to significantly increase the risk of developing a plethora of health conditions. I fully sympathise with a philosophical objection to it (and you can take the concept to farcical extremes - let's ban football to stop people getting injured and costing the NHS), but again, you're underpaying the impact.
When it’s only 2 of the three hosts, this podcast is exactly what I want it to be: a discussion of the events with commentary that I think is insightful and/or interesting.
Oli and ed, ed and Eva, oli and Eva, make for a great show
All three together makes for an hour long show with 15 minutes of great content and the rest being random diatribes
As someone with asthma and a smoking family who's railed against smoking my whole life, I'm fully with Ava on the cost of banning smoking.
Equally, the productivity chat from Ed is one I find frustrating: the social pressure on you not to go outside and have a chat is imagined. There's no dedicated social spaces because we don't view socialising through the same lens that we view smoking. You can socialise where you like; smokers *have* to smoke outside. It's a false equivalence, and viewing it in terms of productivity is dangerous and opens the door for Sunak's ilk to micromanage people's work lives in a way that actually decreases individual productivity by viewing the individual as disposable.
If that were true, it would be fine if every hour, everyone at your work stopped what they were doing and spent 5-10 minutes outside having a chat. It’s clearly not because that doesn’t happen, so it’s not as you say ‘imagined’.
Although I might be able to socialise where I like (although I doubt any manager would like it if you and a colleague suddenly came in to their office to chat about the football), the majority to non-work chat is happening at the same time as conducting your working - which isn’t the same for those going out to smoke.
People smoke on their paid breaks no? How is that a loss in productivity? Ur on Ur break eh?
ed how many times, you can't be watching porn in the commons!
Rishi sunak is the biggest mistake the Tories have ever made they will not recover from this if labour screws up this time then reform will get in the elections after but I actually think labour will do well we were on to be the third largest economy in the world wages were higher in 2008 than they are now the Tories haven't just broken Britain they have purposely lied to us today after day
Nope Rishi is cleaning up the mess, Liz Truss was the biggest mistake the Tories made and will not be able to recover from.
I think she needs a lesson in public health and the benefits to society including economy......she clearly doesn't realise that all behaviour are just because of individual choice. You can educate educate educate but you need everything to work in tandem because we know how much the environment influences behaviour and how easy you make it. Smoking legislation is an example of that and how much the indoor ban and packaging and high tax makes a difference.
Ed is so out of touch. Atleast half the podcast isn’t an ideologue
Disgraceful charade
Scottish Independence now 🏴😎 & Removal of Trident Nuclear Weapons of Mass destruction 🏴☮️
Ava said Sunak is not a Tory: He voted for BREXIT
Voting for Brexit doesn’t automatically make someone a Tory. There are many reasons why Sunak is actually a Tory but this isn’t one of them
He is a fiscal conservative......
There will be a budget hole of £46B at the end of the next parliament as I understand it without cuts or tax rises
To say he is not a Tory is infantile
Every country in the world did a furlough style scheme in fact Sunak was rather late to the party IMHO
Not really sure that Ava has her thought process together at times it feels like student politics at times
Starmer himself is a millionaire....17 million is his net worth approx
Everyone who owns a house in London is a millionaire
Sunak is a billionaire, or thereabouts. Massive world of difference between a millionaire and a billionaire sunny.
Starmer is barely worth Sunak's annual capital gains tax bill
It was coherent Ed, Starmer didn't read Angela's tax advice depsite being a Lawyer cos he doesn't want to be involved if she is found to be lying about her tax affairs but he claimed to have the time to read Liz Truss's stupid book. That's the link Rishi made which was absolutely brillaint and fun to watch.
Also he's not a Tax lawyer; like saying a physicist should look at your bunion as they're a scientist
Although his human rights WERE definitely infringed being forced to real the foetid excrement that the Blundertruss has fired out of her arse.
The banter is really not good, clearly no chemistry between you two. Maybe try to just do journalism instead of comedy
I disagree, when it's just these two on, I really like the vibe.
Ava i'm getting so annoyed with you and Ed: Sunak warned Truss to not cut taxes in the leadership bid when inflation was at 11%. He said that cutting taxes would just add fuel to the fire in that situation. Sunak is a true low tax conservative, watch his speeches before Covid. Covid and the War in Ukraine changed everything and forced him to increase taxes after furlough. It's such a simple thing to understand. He waited till inflation hit 4% before he announced the 2% NI cut.
Brexit also had to be payed for, don't forget that one...
The guy who has raised tax more times than any other
Your a bot right? As above how the hell are you low tax when you've raised them more than anyone else?
@@williamsulman2646 You forgot COVID, he came chancellor just a month before Covid.
@@tobypettit6417 Covid, Furlough, War leads to higher taxes (common sense)
You guys will never praise Sunak. He absolutely nailed it in todays PMQs. Smart guy
When the headlines are sayin he got rinsed by starmer I don't really think anyone could proclaim he nailed it
The polls will reverse for sure
Whole legacy is some stupid unenforceable smoking law.
The taxes on tobacco are high and have gone up a lot in the last few years. So how do they pay for it anyway?
At best, he did better than usual; far from 'nailed it'
@@Boghopper9999 You misunderstand. Not getting completely fucked over is now a Tory win. It is like losing a game 1-0 is now a symbolic win after losing by double figures. Once you are in the position the Tories are in you need to readjust what a win looks like. To many observers they are still getting a beating but lets be frank if you were a Tory politician you need to invent something to get you out of bed in the morning. 🤷🏿♂
Is that an IKEA mug? They're my favourite mugs too.