Robert Morris Latest News on Allegations & Scandal at Gateway Church
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- Robert Morris Latest News on Allegations & Scandal at Gateway Church. This video will be on Robert Morris news or the Robert Morris Latest. Gateway Church has their first church since the Robert Morris Scandal broke. Gateway Elder Tra Willbanks addresses the Gateway Church members at worship service June 22nd, 2024. I thought the elder board on a whole they did a decent job addressing the church. Although they did express disapproval of Roberts actions and sadness on the impact of this on everybody. They really did not offer a rebuke of Robert either or mention sin either. Robert Morris allegations include “inappropriate s*xual behavior with a young lady” more than 35 years ago while he was a young pastor after a woman named Cindy Clemishire accused him of SA her over multiple years beginning when she was 12. His ab*se of Cindy Clemishire lasted 4.5 years and ended with Roberts removal from ministry for two years at the time. It seems at the time that Pastor Robert Morris didn’t seem to share all the details about his moral failure. He said his s*xual sin was with a “young lady” but she was only 12 years and was a young little girl. Due to this information coming to light Robert Morris resigns. Pastor Joakim Lundqvist who is from Sweden happened to be at Gateway Church to preach at their youth conference that weekend . He preached the first sermon at the church since the Robert Morris scandal broke. He seems like a really sweet and genuine person who loves the lord. At the same time I found his sermon lacking a few things . He made no mention of sin and repentance. I thought his message seemed to indicate they we should quickly move on from this situation "because God is not done with Gateway yet". I think they should be focusing on sin and repentance and take time to grieve before talking about Gateway churches future. Robert Morris Gateway Church has 100,000 in attendance at all its locations attending weekly worship services. Lets talk about the Gateway Church Robert Morris scandal in this video.
Full Video of Elder Board Statement: • Gateway Church Elder B...
Voddie Baucham Brokenness sermon: • Voddie Baucham Brokenn...
#gatewaychurch #christiannews #robertmorris
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Corporate repentance requires an entirely new board.Morris cannot resign alone.
Agree! The corruption must be cut out if healing is to occur.
So true...Elders and all those who aligned themselves in any way with Robert Morris are just as accountable.
God's church has been affected and is infected with Sin and needs to come to repentance.
How is one to be Holy before a Holy God?
How are we to be without spot or wrinkle?
Help us Lord to seek your forgiveness for it is You and You alone we have sinned against!😢p
These responses are typical of judgemental, holier than thou Christians. I pray your sins aren;t shouted from the rooftops
Matthew 7:2-5 /Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
This message comes across like Gateway needs to repent, but Gateway isn’t guilty of Morris’s sins. Why hold the church accountable? They dealt with the problem adequately.
More people should resign for sure
God is exposing sin and removing the dross!!! He will not have his church defiled!! The Lord’s exact words to me years ago!!!
Yes. No mention of sin. In my opinion, the entire elder board should have gone before the church and gotten down on their knees and repented. The sins on the leaders flow down to those below them.
No mention of sin??? Are you joking??? Thank God you’re not God as you come across as self righteous. Wonder what your perspective would be if your deep dark sins were exposed.
Absolutely agree!
Let me make sure I understand. The elders should repent for Robert’s sin??? That’s not biblical.
@@rodneyhamp667That is not what he is saying. They need to examine what is the culture at that church that kept this hidden. We know for a fact at minimum one other person knew the full detail because he was the one answering Roberts emails. He either kept it to himself or there was a conspiracy to keep it hidden. This should never happen in the house of God. As a body they need to acknowledge the consequences & put systems in place so that this can never happen again
@@rodneyhamp667 I think Christians come across as self righteous. When people in the secular world do the unimaginable Christians attribute it to them being sinners & not knowing God. When Christians do bad things they shift to repentance & restoration for the person who clearly knows God. We need to feel the pain of our actions examine why we do what we do. So we can fully repent
I agree with your assessment. Where's the accountability. Yes Morris resigned, but Cindy relives her agony and heartbreak from the hands of a prominent Pastor. Derek Prince is correct. True repentance is absent
This is why people lose Faith. This is heart wrenching. You see these ministers, writing books and receiving all these acalaides to boost their own egos. Then you wonder, why are these men and women preaching the word of God when they truly don't believe. God said he would cleanse his house first. And we're eye witnessing it. God's word is true.
Good reporting. Surely Cindy and family are damaged. So is the name and person of GOD. So are many, many people in that church. Fasting and prayer should be a major part of future. God be merciful.
Lets get back to the gospel message!
How does anyone know there wasn't true repentance? Please tell me what victim wants to gain now after over 40 yrs? 12-15 yr old. God only knows the real story.
These things definitely damage the body of church, and a hindrance for sinners to Come to Jesus. We all need to repent and pray and ask for God's mercy
I don’t want to get into what did or didn’t happen 40 yrs ago. Except that I want to ask her dad where were and what were you thinking after Robert came to him and confessed what he did, any dad in their right mind if that happened to their daughter would not have been shoved under the rug. I think her dad should have done more than forgive Robert, more could have been done so that this didn’t go on for several more years and cause untold trauma for his daughter. What was her dad thinking? His daughter was 12.
My thoughts EXACTLY‼️
And why did her dad tell Robert to not make it public? I don't understand that. I haven't found out the reasons yet.
@@petefults5984Robert is a sociopath. That would be a manipulation. ie: originally Dad had said step down from ministry or I go to the police. He was saved a possible life in prison in exchange. I can see not wanting to completely ruin the life of a close family friend. They were kind people and deeply connected in the church. RM returned to preaching against the agreement. He later twisted it to tell Cindy "your Dad doesn't want to go public". That's how sociopaths roll.
Robert's phones and computers should be investigated.
You are preaching truth! "...my people turn from their WICKED WAYS"
@vickieborn5530 It's It's important to ask who are the "my people"?
They were the nation of Isreal who were under covenant relation with God.
No gentiles were "my people" at that time.
Today we are members of the body of Christ saved by grace and not by a covenant.
So the "my people" doesn't refer to us today.
It's important we ask who was speaking to who and what was the context.
Not every verse in the bible refers to us today or we woukd be keeping Isreals 613 laws!
Paul says we arenot under law.
This was 35 years ago. Although Pastor Robert's actions were the ultimate of disqusting and I'm appauled by it, do you not think Robert Morris hasn't turned from his wicked ways? Those without sin cast the first stone as I see many stones being cast.
@rodneyhamp667 The problem is that Paul the apostal to the gentiles gives clear conditions on elders.
They are to be with reproach from those without, meaning unbelievers.
Now everyone knows about him and what he did his actions disqualify him to be in public office dispite it happening 35 years ago.
Even by the workds standards, any involved with a girl aged 12 in a sexual manner is excluded from holding any position of responsibility.
Robert Morris knew exactly what he was doing 35 years ago.
It was not a one off. 4 years of sexual abuse is a long time and even worse was that he was married with children.
The problem is that he teaches false doctrine on tithing and property so he is a heratic anyway.
Needs closing down.
I hate it when guest speakers come and puff the individual 'mission' of a local congregation without talking about the larger body of Christ.
Very good point my friend
Amen
Without the fear of God, can we truly and fully repent? I think not. The Western church has brought God down to our level instead of recognizing and worshipping His majesty, power, glory and holiness. The fear of God keeps us from sinning, and if we sin, causes us to be broken and truly repent as Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians 7. May our lives reveal Godly sorrow over sin, not worldly sorrow.
PREACH IT BROTHER sin and REPENTANCE
I pray Pastor Morris never goes back, and the pain and guilt brings him closer to God.
It is sin, and the lady who is in her 50's now what help has she gotton for herself and if her parents did get help for her?
Its seems its all about $$ now
God is the Answer..True
Repentance...
David didn't fully repent until he was confronted by Nathan the Prophet.Yet God had Mercy on David.God is no respecter of person concerning sin.Let it not be once named among among us as becometh Saints.But if we sin and stop it,God will take the desires away. Robert Morris need Mercy like anybody else.God bless.
Yes indeed. Where are the Nathan's in this generation? Everyone is too worried about coming rich and famous in the church instead f contending for the faith
Amen! This needs to be preached again and again. I remember my sin almost daily. I believe it’s like Paul and the thorn in his side. I believe God forgave me but allows me to remember so I don’t commit that sin again. Repentance is “turning away from”
50k is peanuts to Morris. It’s not about money that he stole from her but Robert should have given her that and then some.
Weak weak and more weakness. They should change the resignation status to being terminated
Why? Will the label make a difference? At present there's an investigation going on. He resigned. The church can move on.
Did they check with IHOP for how to do the wrong thing?
Hire an attorney for an "independent investigation" ✅
Have a visitor give an inapplicable innapropriae sermon immediately afterwards.✅
Protect the organization by suggesting they focus on the bigger mission, the "church". ✅
Actually the elders mishandled this completely. First, this elder made this about the elders and the impact this had on him. Awful. Secondly their approval of Morris’ resignation rather than their firing him was also a huge misstep. Sadness instead of anger was a clear sign on weakness and a misunderstanding of the depth of evil that occurred. Sin is sin but pedophelia is immeasurable worse than afultry or other sins that commonly capture and ruin church leaders’ lives. Lastly and most importantly in the case of the elders they en mass should have all stood there and resigned their positions in front of the co gregarious as a symbol of impugned sin. They were obviously not guilty of molesting a 12 year old over a long period of time but as most people know a twisted man who was involved in such an evil sin has many other symptoms such as narcissism, arrogance, control, anger, etc., that these elders were aware of for many years and did nothing about it. So this was a failure of a pastor, but just as much an abject failure of elder leadership and even though the law and probably some civil lawsuits will be in the offing for Morris, the elders should be held accountable as well by the congregation or the leaven and infection will stay and grow in other ways. That this elder stands in front of this co creation and speaks this pathetic speech from a position of authority unaware of his and their guilt and responsibility just reveals the depth of immaturity and spiritual dullness of this entire board.
@@johnfletcher5782 the elders supported a pedophile
I so agree with everything you have said! Why do the elders think it is enough to shed a few tears and go on without working out, and acting upon, their own sin in this situation in which they are COMPLICIT?
Question: WHY blame the elders & NOT her parents for NOT exposing his pedo acts to the elders, which would've ENDED his ministry BEFORE he build a MEGA church⁉️ And WHY is this guy stating that Cindy's request for $50,000 was for counseling fees, AFTER 35 yrs no less⁉️ Did HE SEE the bills⁉️ NO‼️ It sounds MORE like EXTORTION and/or BLACKMAIL which is also SIN‼️ MY child was molested by a public figure but I did NOT resort to EXTORTION nor did I wait or hid wth happened‼️ I immediately went to the police & reported it‼️
@user-hy8xi4pp9j
How can we judge the hearts of all these elders? How can we judge the steps of what Morris went through in his own personal repentance & brokenness. How can we judge the level of his brokeness. He went before the board of the church he was at during all this, confessed all the detaissI listened to a sermon of his years ago where he spoke of a terrible fall in his own personal life involving
Robert Morris minimized what he did by calling it “an affair with a young lady”. The board members didn’t bother to ask how young therefore deniable plausibility.
Also in sermon Morris talked about how he went after girls who didn’t have a father in the home and who were insecure. That is straight describing predatory behavior.
So yes we can most definitely judge the actions of Robert Morris - predatory, minimizing attitude, low key threatening the victim. His wife “forgiving” the victim. And on and on.
And I’m sick of enablers like you.
Do you really believe the people who attend Gateway don't realize this was sin? Does it need to be labelled before you can know what it is? Robert Morris didn't just sin in that area, he and others sinned by covering it up. But the Elders (who didn't know) and the congregation do not need to repent for Robert's sins. Elder Wilbanks shared with his church family the pain he was experiencing because Gateway has been home to him and his family. Many of us in the congregation related to him because his story is our story. Why is everyone casting stones on Gateway? Why are you saying not to move on, but to wallow in the muck and mire of sin? We, the congregation didn't sin (in this story) Robert Morris did. Yoakim has been the only Pastor I have seen/read who came with healing for our hearts. This has been the hardest thing I have ever experienced in my nearly 70 years of life. You treat us like we are all part of this mess; no we are collateral damage. I pray you never have to experience this, but if you do, I pray you have a church family as precious as the Gateway family.
Well said! Robert sinned; I did not share in his sin (I have my own sin)! I will continue to attend Gateway Church as I have for 20+ years!!
Absolutely agree with you on this. Very well said. Gateway SLK has been my home for ten years. The Lord has grown me so much here. So much more than where I used to be. Our church family here has been hurt deeply as well. And I really believe if we weren’t such a healthy congregation to begin with we would already be tearing at the seams and falling apart. What we all were part of this past Saturday was a fresh beginning and a renewed hope in Christ. He is our focus and always has been.
I'm a total outsider and I feel for your church. I feel sick for his children who are so devastated by this. This is generational and needs deep healing. The congregation needs each other for their own healing. I hope the investigation clears out those who had involvement in his cover up. Sadly, his wife did know.
@@shirleynewingham2093 Me too!
@@samuelreddick4083 Agree. I don't regret what my family and I have learned/experienced over the years. And, this congregation isn't walking away now. Christ is my firm foundation!
Hi Josh,
The Lord showed me years ago that modern Christianity is just a caricature of what the true faith is meant to be. You were given a special gift at ORU, hearing the testimony of those missionaries. Sadly, the most important truths I’ve learned in the faith did not come from a church pulpit. They came out of the throes of my own brokenness. I appreciate your heart for reformation.
Let’s agree in prayer for the greatest reformation in history that will not only bring in the final harvest, but also disciple them. 🌾🌾🌾
I hope with all my heart that Robert Morris will listen to this truly relevant message, many thanks, much appreciated
@@irisstuck4659 did you ever watch him. He would say he could not travel alone. He told us how he liked to look at women. HE LIKED CHILDREN. HE STILL DOES. YOUR CHURCH needs to close. I watched him for yrs. See I was attacked by a pedophile at 11yrs. He preached the Bible and were to jail 20 yrs later but what you don't understand about pedophiles is they don't change. My dad died at 81 still being a pedophile. Too many of your so called church helped to cover it up. I pray your church closes for good
And he worked with Trump who worked w pedophiles.
Close your church. The devil dwells there
Blessings to you!
It's all about a personal relationship with the LORD nothing else matters
So, spot on. Good insights.
Repentance is the issue.
Corporate repentance as well
Where is the gospel?
Gateway will continue. "People love to have it so."
I have followed the Robert Morris situation from the beginning. This is one of the best analysis of the modern church I have heard from anyone. I think of Jonathan Edward's sermon in the 1700s "sinners in the hands of an angry God" that resulted in genuine revival in the New England region. It was said he read the sermon in a monotone , even voice by candlelight. No theatrics...no loud music...no man made production to move people emotions. Such a contrast. Pastor Baucham was spot on.
One of IHOP's leaders had a dream that they were supposed to learn something from Jonathan Edwards. They seemed to completely ignore this, teaching God loves us no matter what instead.
"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom." False salvation doctrine has removed the fear of the Lord, so sin is rampant and not one church even has a reputation for being alive, let alone actually are alive in Jesus' eyes.
It's a sad loss to the Church that these past, great men of God, are so seldom read now. Like Spurgeon, JC Ryle and many of the Puritan writers of the 17th century.
God is cleaning his church to make it without spot and blemish
Thank you for your vulnerability! I have been struggling for years because I have seen so many pastors and leaders of ministry do wrong, and it was quickly covered. When I tried to call it out, I was considered as a heretic! I was corrected and disciplined from the church because I was speaking against God's anointed! Years I have carried bitterness against the church and against God for allowing them to get away with it! But, now I am seeing this awakening, and I am praising God for his love and vindication!
Thank you, brother Josh, for this POWERFUL, indeed RELEVANT commentary!!!
And you are right; there needs to be a season of REPENTANCE and REFLECTION, not just GATEWAY church, but everyone of us, we ALL need to reflect and repent!
A few years back, I sat in a congregation when the WORD of the LORD came forth and spoke prophetically saying,
"I Am calling you to DEEP DEEP REPENTANCE!!!
I could not grasp the meaning or understand those words then, but I do now!
Thank you again for this commentary! It brought much light and understanding!
Shalom🙏🏽
Thank you so much my friend
He's a guest speaker. It was a perfect message.
1. Not his job to sort out the church's internal stuff in front of not his own congregation.
2. He's encouraging the church and he's 100% right.
3. It was a beautiful message.
4. There will be a reckining, but it's not his job as a guest speaker.
Atrus..it was a whitewashed sermon. Trying to smooth things over. It can't be smoothed over. Not yet.
This elder is Tra Wilbanks, CEO of Anchor Investments, a reported family-owned and operated investment firm with a focus in the manufacturing, distribution, and services market. Website says, "Helping owners unlock their equity, we work with companies predominantly located in the south with revenue levels of at least $5 million." Funny how big money always seems to be around the church leadership.
@@jimcastiglione7657 NOT EVER!
I agree.
He couldn't talk about the situation really, there's so much more to it that has not been revealed. He did the best thing he could do, the church had no idea and they needed to hear what this man said. There is nothing wrong with that. Robert committed a crime, a couple maybe of the elders knew, the rest did not. I don't understand why most of the commenters want the elders and the church to be arrested with Robert.
The responsibility of protecting our children is the parents or guardians. Her parents were responsible for allowing a man to stay with them, a trusted friend or not. “ the Devil NEVER sleeps, “ Mom said
And he never called the police for this crime, which says it ALL. The elders restored him, fine. But he became DISQUALIFIED to lead a flock, or ANY position in a church. But since they don’t read the Bible they didn’t know. Sad.
THIS is the real problem.
Her father did not call the police. In that, he failed her. The elders at Shady Grove did not call the police. In that, they failed the congregation and by extension, the membership of Gateway today. There was no accountability… until now.
There has to be accountability… from Robert and from the elders that knew or should have known.
Stop blaming the victim and her family. This has gone far enough! When you do this, it makes YOU complicit too!
Her dad told Morris not to make it public.
Good job???? He was crying about how he was feeling. Pathetic
Yes, God has spoken to me today through this video. God bless you.
Wonderful!
Above ALL..we must honor God with our lives.
It's says in the Bible to obey the laws of the land.Gateway doesn't loose their paychecks! If there was no God or the enemy what would you do..This a crime and it's child abuse.I say that Robert Morris must be dealt with in court of the law of the land.
God is going to deal with the Gateway and there repentance? God also forgives? Time to heal...
We are not to obey unjust laws or those who are in opposition to righteousness (ie abortion)
19:07 Amen! We lost Christ and Him crucified and placed ourselves at the center of church. "This people honors me with their lips but their hearts are far from me."
As Christians we are in a battle , in a war people fall but there is a person to carry on the story of salvation,the message is look up,but the foundation is repentance ,
The very best I’ve heard in a long long time. So needed.
Thank you so much. That means a lot!
Excellent thought provoking insight that should draw us close to God’s heart. For such a time as this.
this is an example of a lukewarm church mentioned in Revelation 3:14-22, He who has an ear let him hear (read) like many churches in America, we have gotten comfortable, like sitting on the couch waiting to be entertained -bring the popcorn, a very sad time indeed, people are not taking the teaching of Jesus serious
Revelation 3:14-22
English Standard Version
To the Church in Laodicea
14 “And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation.
15 “‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! 16 So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. 17 For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see. 19 Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me. 21 The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’”
I am so glad they didn't play music when Jesus went to the cross to try to sooth the feelings of what people were seeing.
You are teaching exactly what the church is missing. I’ve even said to the pastor here. Preach the Cross. Preach the cross. Thankyou for being so awesome…. Praise the Lord.
So sad everything, is hurting for all ,this presenter did a great job under the most difficult circumstances, hopefully all will forgive each other , evil actions has consequences, repent get true salvation. Thank you God Heavenly Father Jesus Christ King of all kings, thank you Holy Spirit our Helper and Comforter and Healer and teacher in mighty ways in Jesus name amen and amen 🍞 🙏 🙌 ❤️
Blessings 🙌
So great….it’s true the church does not preach repentance from sin from the pulpit much any more. Repentance is the missing link. I pray for Robert Morris that God is cleaning his earthly temple, we’re in a season where time is short and our eternity is close. I get that a visiting pastor may feel his job is to help heal the body and that Gateway goes through a cleansing. We want the Lord to clean out our houses so we’re ready for the harvest. We shouldn’t be surprised this is coming now and we all repent and turn from our wicked ways. America needs true repentance.
Morris preached about repentance often.
Very compassionately and truthfully shared.
17:25 Amen. Amen and amen. God have mercy on us and bring us together on our knees in grieving our sin. That is what real revival would look like.
I totally disagree with your assessment. I believe this pastor was helping a very hurting church their first time together. He understands their pain and is walking with them.
Where were Cindy's parents during these years. No matter what, don't leave your little girls (or boys) unsupervised. I speak from experience.
You know the story by now. Yet another person of no discernment who blames the victim and her family. YOU are complicit when you do this!
I am not blaming the family. I am asking a question.
Right. I do not see how she snuck in the room he slept in without her parents or her sister that slept where she slept in the living room not see one clue? For over 4 years??
So good! Again, thank you Joshua! I remember Neville Johnson, whose parents were in the Welsh revival. He said that revival brought holiness and that that the Angels weren't excited about coming back for this next move because the Charismatic movement didn't bring Holiness. And he mentioned there would be a reformation of the Church. I am so thankful for you speaking truth!💞
Forty-one years of continued cover-up, deception, blatant misrepresentation of his past, a toxic leadership structure, and supreme arrogance. I'd encourage you to seek out the emails from a decade ago that the victim's attorney released, where Robert responded to her with the most manipulative gaslighting I've seen in a long time. He also placed blame on Cindy for being flirty. He is a man that has practiced and embraced deceit and pride through his entire life. I say this as someone who held a leadership position within Gateway for years. I know this man and I love this man. But let's not pretend there has been no sin in his response in the last four decades.
@@savanna1980And your someone who supports Oprah & TD Jakes???????? You say You Held a Position in Gateway Church??? I don’t remember someone like you??????????
LOVED "Angels weren't excited about coming back for this next move because the Charismatic movement didn't bring Holiness"
Thank you for bringing up that the verse, "He who is without sin, cast the first stone", does not apply here. It absolutely doesn't for so many reasons. What does apply, "It would be better to be thrown into the sea with a millstone hung around your neck than to cause one of these little ones to fall into sin." Luke 17:2 "Take no part in the worthless deeds of evil and darkness; instead, expose them." Ephesians 5:11, "I meant that you are not to associate with anyone who claims to be a believer yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is abusive, or is a drunkard, or cheats people. Don’t even eat with such people." 1 Corinthians 5:11
@carriemccurley-th8gn There are so many of the sins listed above that Morris is guilty of, not just the heinous sexual sin/crime he committed.
@@user-hy8xi4pp9j Agreed. He should be in jail.
We ALL need to take a deep breath and allow GOD to do what He needs to do with this. He knows what He wants out of this. Correction often times hurts
Thank you for talking about these really important issues we're facing in the modern American church
Josh - This video is perhaps the best you have presented, hitting the bullseye of sin in the church and the individual. The message of repentance has been sidelined by many things, but especially entertainment and self fulfillment. I thank God for Him placing you in a position to communicate these truths. He delights to use those that humble themselves and have no ambition other than speaking His truth. I have been a lifelong student of Derek Prince and appreciate that his messages are current, a testament to the purity of his earthly ministry. I encourage you to continue ‘pulling off the mask’ so that the true root of these issues can be exposed and dealt with in full. You can do this because you have allowed God to work in your heart to qualify you to confront. Thank you for your continuing work to purify the church.
You provide great and challenging comments. Thanks for your heart and sharing Bible truths!!
I appreciate that!
Love Voddie Baucham
Replacement theology
@@lindawheeler3479 No, he does NOT teach Replacement Theology!
Calvanist do not believe in replacement theology.
The church should stand with Israel. I'm certain Voddie does
He did not repent.
What would you have a ‘visiting’ pastor & this congregation do? The elder board has hired an independent law firm to investigate this matter & see what must be done. Do they need to continue to horse-whip Robert & castigate him publicly til their anger (& yours’) is abated somewhat? To what end? This changes nothing. The investigation will be done. None of your criticism of Pastor Joakim’s sermon was what Jesus would ever do. It was unkind. Jesus would neither be treating Robert Morris nor speaking about him like many of you are. He didn’t put sinners away from Him; He drew them to himself, knowing that those are the ones that need Him the very most. When we sin do we need love, care, help, understanding, grace & mercy more or do you want everything & everybody you know to change, & all your friends to push you away & shun you?….There but for the grace of God go you, Joshua, & all the rest of us as well. We might not be guilty of this particular sin, but there are a whole lot more to pick from. I agree, talk about the sin aspect of it in the beginning, but to go on & on & keep that conversation alive is akin to gossip. Think about this, please. Please! Blessings to you all! ❤🙏🏻
What you said is what Jesus said. He said those without sin could cast the first stone. All humans have sinned and will continue to sin until the second coming of Christ
Well said and thank you
Amen....great points brother
Gosh, why now blame the innocent? Pastor Joakim did a great job of motivating the church to move forward and not be distracted by the sin of 1 man. We go to church to honor God and not a pastor! Give me 1 reason why he must have talked about Pastor Robert. NO, NO. he was spot on in motivating the people and not allowing them to loose hope! Focus on the wrong and leave those who preach to talk to the people about what God wants for their lives. Nobody needs to hear more about Roberts sins in church. Now they need to focus on how to grow and move forward! May God bless the people of this Church to do more and grow in faith and discipline.
I encourage you to watch the full video. Yes they should eventually move on. After they have fully acknowledged this situation
@@TornCurtainIJoshuaSimone They will have ongoing Grief share and care ministries at each campus to help with this aspect, but Pastor Robert's sin is his (not the congregation), Shady Grove Church (where Pastor Robert was a member when this happened) had a different set of elders. The few elders there when she contacted the church (details still coming on as to who she spoke with) have stepped away to give the investigation time. I can tell you that elders talked with church members during the weekend services, answering questions and praying with people. I witnessed it myself. -Disclaimer- I do not work there. I have volunteered there, I have been a victim of abuse, I am a sinner who needed/ needs grace/forgiveness myself, and the people of Gateway are grieving heavily. I liked your video overall, and I agree with many points. I loved that you were humble enough to say you may not have understood Jokim's tone entirely. I just wanted to let you know of these things so you can see from the perspective of members of Gateway who are in shock and grief. We are all very curious about the next steps that they take as well. My family is praying through the decision to find another church, but we have great love for the people at Gateway. Blessings!
It's a fallacy to create policy to eradicate sin. And to evaluate each others sin on and on. Let the dead bury themselves. All we wil find is nothing but sin inside of a sinner. There is nothing good inside of anyone.
Whatever happened to, " for the name sake of Jesus Christ"...has the Church forgotten? Don't hear it taught or talked about any more...
Thank you for reminder of the gravity of sin and modern Christianity’s tendency to call it mistakes.
So wondering-as my son-like older brother is angry that people in the church were restored so quickly and gaining attention after my son has been faithful but remains as the person who is unseen and neglected in blessing those who sinned possess.
I am so glad that you mentioned the mega-church model. Most mega-churches are a hive of wolves, greed and sexual sin. Think of all the exposed pastors in the last decade or longer; they were nearly all from mega-churches. Thank you for addressing this problem. It needs to be addressed far more widely. They are bringing Christ, and the whole Church, into disrepute and mockery.
The church needs a new focus on holiness as a whole. It is not about being perfect, but changing of our focus to pleasing God.
”What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?“
Romans 6:1-2 NIV
This is clearly a salvation issue: Romans 2, 8 and 11.
The elders knew what was going on. If not then they aren’t elders.
I agree and, in which case, they should all publicly repent and resign. If not, the seed of corruption will remain in that church!
Almost all of the current elders did not know. And they are still elders..
The current elders of Gateway Church were NOT involved with Robert Morris 35 years ago! It was a different church and different elders. I believe the current elders of Gateway Church did not know of the facts of Robert Morris' sin nor repentance!
You really think that a woman living in those times did not know that it was wrong to be a prostitute? Even the women today who feel they have no other choice to provide for themselves and possibly others, know it is wrong.
Thank you! This has been very enlightening!
Joakim Lundqvist use to be our pastor in word of life church in Sweden Uppsala. He emphasized youth as the next generation for the church.
He and his family lives in the USA and have been preaching in the Gateway church before.
This is a great video. Lots of thought provoking statements.
I have empathy for the congregation. This is something they have hopefully never experienced before. As an online congregant, I know I was crushed by this, angry, and confused. How does one digest this but not judge, even at the severity of the issue? I would ask that James Morris would be lifted up in prayer as he fully comes in as Senior Pastor, that God would bring in His chosen vessels to help navigate the way forward for His church. Let's please show some grace to Pastor Joakim. He was thrust into a very messy and unexpected situation. I believe he gave a message of hope to the congregation that God is not finished with Gateway. If I'm wrong about that, God will surely prove it, as I believe He will with any cleaning of the house of elders. I'm going to trust and believe my Rabbi who walks on water!
Well said
Truth is what GOD REQUIRES
Sin will not be tolerated in the Pulpit!!!
I have asked myself, if I were Cindy, what would be adequate restitution? What would authentic repentance look like to me? I would not ask for any $. Regardless of how much I spent on therapy, no amount of $ would restore my childhood. Asking for $ only cheapens the experience and makes me look greedy. What I would want is for RM to make a public apology and be specific about his sin. I would want him to step down from the pulpit and never make another dime from anything even remotely connected to pastorship. I would want him to sell all he has, live a modest lifestyle and donate all the proceeds to an organization that helps victims of sa/advocates for church reform. This is what true repentance would look like to me. It would also need to come from RM himself to do these things - not because he's pressured because he got caught
I went to Gateway about 13 years ago. They broke my spirit.
How did they break your spirit? I’m confused.
@fortworthsteeler8323 I am very sorry to hear that my friend! I hope that you have been able to find a church that preaches the truth and that they have been able to help heal your spirit. God Bless!
How did they break your spirit? Thank you
Answer the question please of how Gateway Church broke your spirit.
@@shirleynewingham2093 I would but you seem to be coming with an disturbing spirit. So we will leave it alone.
Thank you for your courage to preach the truth. Great message.
There is no such thing as partial repentance, just like there's no such thing as partial truth. God will not accept either.
Yes you are right on. Thats what i got out of it. Great exposure.
it was a good point you made about the empty cross, did not think about it that way, but believe you are right. also agree with your evaluation of gateway quietly sweeping sin under the rug for tithings and seeds for your best life now... God bless you and keep you and all here
@@VeronicaTelaro-bu8rbi am not sure what would be right, but it could be that the empty cross makes us think less about our sin and the great sacrifice of our Lord. God bless you
Oh, so well said….the “worship” in today’s churches appears more like entertainment for the parishioners and it is to make them feel good!! Praising the church….no mention of humbly falling at the feet of Jesus!!!
Very well said my friend
Incredible job with this video
Thank you
Thank you very much!
I can’t tell you the last sermon I heard on repentance! “Just believe” is the sermon.
Voddie Baucham seems to strongly teach OSAS (once saved always saved though), saying here are sins are forgiven past, present and future - the greatest deception, not taught in the Bible or the early church fathers - sending many to hell. So almost all truly born-again Christians are now lust addicted, driven by demons in them to lust. Because the desire to lust is so strong and the dopamine rewards are so high, a strong sermon on repentance will not cause most to repent, so ALL of our churches today are spiritually dead.
The truth about who goes to heaven needs to be studied and taught. 90 NT verses say in some way we must overcome to go to heaven. Pastors repeat the OSAS greatest hits verses instead, what the itching ears want to hear. Paul prophesied:
“For The TIME WILL COME when THEY WILL NOT LISTEN to the SOUND DOCTRINE, but, having itching ears, will heap up for themselves TEACHERS AFTER THEIR OWN LUSTS; and will TURN AWAY THEIR EARS FROM THE TRUTH, and turn aside to *FABLES*” (2 Tim. 4:3-4)
@@jefffenske1958 Voddie Baucham does NOT preach to those with itching ears. He is one of the most faithful pastors, not just in America, but the Church as a whole. Christians will never agree on the OSAS issue, but that does not give us license to slander those who do!
@@user-hy8xi4pp9j If Voddie's church was abiding in Christ they'd have revival, which would be obvious, but there isn't any.
Jesus and Paul would call out today's preachers who teach OSAS too. OSAS is sending billions to hell, starting in the 1500s. And the teachers who teach this false doctrine, refusing to warn the people by teaching the 90 NT verses that refute OSAS will get a stricter judgment.
Preachers with a strong gift of persuasion are misusing their gift, and they refuse to listen to those who tell the truth.
Most churches today don't allow freedom of speech to attendees, and have methods to keep only their doctrines from being heard.
There is also an elaborate methodology used to try to explain into Calvinism or "only believe" the 90 NT texts that refute OSAS.
John MacArthur is a master at it, so there is no holiness, just head knowledge, which John MacArthur-type churches are known for.
Hardly any "Christians" today actually abide in Christ.
And few pastors/teachers even teach John 17 and Ephesians 4:11-16 to be God's goal for us.
I rearranged the order in Ephesians 4:12-16 to make this point: when the “trickery of men,” their “craftiness,” their twisting God’s words is exposed, their teaching of “wiles of error” and “winds of doctrine,” then we’ll attain “unity of the faith,” become spiritually” full grown,” walking in the “fullness of Christ” - God’s clearly stated words here:
[When the] “TRICKERY of men in CRAFTINESS after the WILES OF ERROR” [stops producing] “children, tossed back and forth and carried about with every WIND OF DOCTRINE” [we’ll have] “the PERFECTING of the saints, to the work of serving, to the building up of the body of Christ; UNTIL WE *ALL* ATTAIN to the UNITY of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a FULL GROWN man, to THE MEASURE OF THE STATURE OF THE FULLNESS OF CHRIST … but speaking TRUTH in love, we may GROW UP IN ALL THINGS INTO HIM, who is the head, Christ; from whom all the body, being fitted and knit together through that which every joint supplies, according to the working in measure of each individual part, makes the body increase to the building up of itself in LOVE.”
The churches these days are like a pep talk from a life coach
@@user-hy8xi4pp9j I responded to your comment this morning, but it's gone. I didn't erase it. I'll just say now that I didn't say anything "false" or "malicious."
'slander': 1. Oral communication of false and malicious statements that damage the reputation of another.
The 16th century false doctrines of OSAS, "only believe" and "it's hard to lose one's salvation" is the main reason for the lack of revival and the fall of America. Without the fear of the Lord taught in its fullness, the vast majority of born-again Christians are willfully sinning without fully repenting and reconciling, so there is no joy of the Lord, and woke is taking over easily.
Powerful message brother!
Some really great points are made about FULL REPENTANCE, becoming aware of the consequences of our own sin, and how to respond to our own failures.
You got after it, Josh! Loved the fire with which you preached, and the strong word that you brought. One thought to consider: Isn't saying one has "partially repented" a lot like saying that they are "partially pregnant?"
I do not buy the notion that Robert Morris has repented. That is why I maintain that how a man responds right now, in the present tense, is the most important testimony that he has. We can be certain that as long as, not only the serious sexual sins, but also the many years' worth of coverups, are not fully addressed publicly, we are not seeing one who is repentant. Through the years he did just enough to keep the lights on and the machinery running. To date, that hasn't changed.
You might be right in saying this my friend. Great analogy with the "partially pregnant" comment
AMEN and AMEN, Brother Joshua! 🙏
Joshua, i fully agree. We lightly repent because...
Mostly because we have never truly been in His presence.
In His presence we all know, KNOW ourselves to the point of utter abhorrence.
Only grace, so great, so powerfully convicting, can bring us to repent.
I do not know who was on the board of Gateway in 2005 when MR. Morris was confronted with what he did to Cindy in the 1980's,
That board knew there was NO REPENTANCE.
There was a fear of exposure. There was no repentance, rather a whitewashing of Robert. Cindy was called a young lady at 12 years old. And called flirtatious. Meaning Robert fell for her, being just a man.
THAT SIN WAS AS grievous 😢or more so then the first sin.
That board needs to confess publicly and repent to the church of Jesus Christ. If they dont, they dont KNOW the God of our salvation. Dont know His prsence.
That is what we need to point to. And that one board member, addressing the church on the Sunday after the disclosure of Mr. Morris's criminal behavior may not have been a part of that sham of a repentance in 2005. Do we you know about that board?
If he was on that board in 2005, then no, he was not repentant at all.
I do pray for repentance over our country, even for those corrupt leaders. God had a King Ahab to repent.
It can happen. Only God can present a spotless bride to His Son,Jesus.
Jesus, Jesus, looks like only the suffering church is spotless. O, God, help us all to walk humbly with you in full dependance on Holy Spirit. Every day, in full awareness of the unspeakable gift that our God, Yehovah, the Almighty, has given to us.
Remember, ALL the gospels record Jesus telling His followers to take up your cross to follow Him.
I think that ALL the Elders who did know, or now know and tried to cover-up the true nature of the sin, should publicly repent and RESIGN. Unless they do, the seeds of corruption will remain in that church and grow and grow and grow.
The men who were elders when Robert Morris confessed his sin were NOT in Gateway Church; Gateway church was not created yet; it was a different church; I repeat the current elders of Gateway Church were not involved in the beginning of all of this!!
I believe Paul Washer would also say American Christianity is a joke. When he would return from a missionary trip abroad, he would say Americans are backsliden
LOVED "I believe Paul Washer would also say American Christianity is a joke."
Thank you, brother for your wisdom, and input; it was right on! Wow, I had no idea about the Mike Bickle sickening story! 2024 has truly been a year of reconning for evil "pastors" to be exposed as the hypocrites they are. God is not mocked!
God will not be mocked
Hey Brother … Comments are Spot on. When people in our charismatic circles define the truth of their Christian Faith based on an existential experience with God , obsessed with their emotional experience and supernatural story telling ….instead of commuting to only allowing our experiences to flow from the authority of Scripture , we become sitting ducks to spiritual deception and debachery
You have been thought-provoking and so timely in your message. Those identifying as followers of Christ have absolutely side-stepped the act of repentance/remorse/repair/confession including FULL ownership of the sin and the need for accountability/fellowship in order to stay away from the same temptation. It was what John the Baptist's preparatory ministry was all about and now it's been deleted in favor of premature and "cheap" reconciliation along with "cheap" grace. The emphasis has been so heavily on protecting the church instead of protecting the flock from half-baked teaching which may cause them to miss heaven due to being lukewarm. Blessings to you for this honest and humble message--a wake-up call to us all.
God bless you! There are so few left speaking the truth!
Morris didn’t really face any consequences. He’s retiring. That happened 35 years ago. Why is it being mentioned now and not 30 years ago.
All those who were complicit in Morris’ sexual crimes against a minor needed to be held accountable. I’ve been an elder, pastor, Bible teacher and in leadership at three churches for nearly four decades. The elder board who had been complicit, needed to resign and step down from ministry. Of course God’s forgiveness through His Son, Jesus, when there’s true repentance, is promised to Believers. However, there are also consequences for sin and sometimes it involves the laws of the land.
Also what are they doing to help her
@dorothycutler5539 ABSOLUTELY NOTHING EXCEPT SAY HOW SORRY THEY ARE THAT IT HAPPENED!
They should be doing something for Cindy. We will see in the days ahead. Very good point
Really love this channel!
In true revivals of the past, after extended periods of Holy Spirit conviction, most of the 'church' would come forward to repent and become born again for the first time in their lives. Finney would not allow anyone to come forward to his anxious bench until 'the church' got desperate enough to get right with God. During his first revival, he and deacon had to hide for a month because 'the church' wanted to tar and feather him because he would not allow them to come forward too early. About 70% of his converts served the Lord all their lives (1/2 million of them!). It dropped down to 50% with Moody, and considerably lower since.
Billy Graham said that only 5% of those who came forward in his services could be found in a church a year later. He used 'professional walkers' to walk to the front, so unbelievers would not be afraid to come forward. In some of my services, after I had preached, remained silent for a considerable time, without coercion or emotional manipulation, many would rush to the front, weeping bitterly and begging to have their sins forgiven and/or be baptized with the Holy Spirit.
In one large Pentecostal bible school, most of the students could be found under the oak pews, clutching the edge, and groaning like they were about to fall into hell. That is conviction of the Holy Spirit, and not manufactured by man. I was a lousy evangelist, but God took pity on me and did what I could not. BTW, the name of that bible school is Douglas Memorial Pentecostal Bible School, and this happened in 1988.
I agree with you about sin and repentance, but that youth speaker was not there to fix Gateway’s problem.
I thought what he said was great. He gave words of encouragement to a broken people. He gave words of truth, of who God is and what He does. He gave them hope, that God has a future for his people and He is not going to cast them away because of one man’s sin or because of a group of mens action or a lack of actions, if that is the case.
So I strongly disagree on you judgement of those words (the ones you played) of that youth speaker. You said yourself you would not want to be put into that position. Then Sir, show grace and give encouragement to a church that has been slapped hard in the face.
41 years ago....all of a sudden all this exposure????😢.....they are both over 50 plus...years old....😮....REPENTANCE RESTITUTION RESTORATION....PRAYER...........FORGIVENESS ........and corrupt media leave the church alone
There was a cover up, a glossing over of the sin/crime, that’s the problem. His “restoration” to leadership was under false pretenses and should have never happened….hopefully he sees that now.
It seems like Gateway never presented the full truth- That is why this is happening now
If most in the Western church are unsaved, which I believe, then the gospel should be preached. The sad thing is that the church or gathering, biblically is for the saved. It’s where teaching, uplifting, disciple making is suppose to be happening. The gospel is to be preached to the unbelievers out in the world by every believer (The Church). Those that receive it by believing & repenting become part of the gathering (church) where they are taught, encouraged, uplifted, discipled so to grow in the Lord and then they too can go out to their world and share the gospel. That’s the biblical purpose of the gathering (church) and why not to forsake it.
The church has become a place of consumerism because those coming in to the gathering are not believers to begin with. So yes, if that’s the western church today then those in attendance need to hear the gospel preached. Bottom line - not enough of the gospel is being shared anywhere… in the world or the unregenerate church where in many instances have become part of the world.
I subscribed to your channel after this. I feel it was a great teaching for people to understand what the Bible actually says and what our responses should be. You pulled out all the points beautifully and you did it without bashing anyone yet holding a high standard. Awesome job.
Best Torn Curtain episode I have ever watched. You really are growing my friend!
Wow, thanks!
Let’s not make it all about Robert Morris and his sin. What about Cindy? Why aren’t we talking about her brokenness, the long lasting affects of what she has endured? What a sentence she will have over her head for the rest of her life. How can the church participate in her healing and recovery? We have got to do much better than what’s been done in the past. Responsibility as well as true repentance for the sin we commit.
You are absolutely correct. I had Cindy in mind the whole time I taught about the ripple effect of Sin and it's damage 💔
Well said exactly!!! Thank you for this!!
Spot on!! RM is just trying to save his Hide BECAUSE HE GOT CUT ON A TIGHT SPOT, NOT BECAUSE HE TRULY REPENTED!! CLEANSING COMES WITH TRUE/ GENUINE REPENTANCE!! It's not too late for him/us to do like David!❤
Robert Morris sinned not Gateway Church and not its members!
King David did *not repent of his sin of “rape and murder” until GOD sent Nathan to call him out; (2nd Samuel 12:13-25)
Yes indeed. Where are the Nathan's in this generation? Everyone is too worried about coming rich and famous in the church instead f contending for the faith
Sin is sin no matter what your sin is. God forgives them all. But we all have consequences for are sins.
Brutally Beautiful commentary and instruction. I subscribed. 👍
Awesome, thank you!
If it happened today, what does "Revival" look like, exactly? Is it an ever expanding group of people attending church and having profound, mystical religious experiences? Joining together in worship?
What exactly does it entail and what is its specific purpose for the church?
I've heard it's coming my whole life. It's always talked about and always chased after but what is it's real meaning?