Queen Margaret strikes the Duchess of Gloucester - The Hollow Crown: Episode 1 - BBC Two
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- Опубликовано: 26 авг 2024
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Watch the BBC first on iPlayer 👉 bbc.in/iPlayer... Programme website: bbc.in/1T38n6X Queen Margaret (Sophie Okonedo) questions whether Henry VI (Tom Sturridge) needs a protector to govern for himself, ending in an angry power struggle with the Duchess of Gloucester (Sally Hawkins).
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The young actor Tom Sturridge who portrays Henry VI is just about spot on in this scene. The real Henry VI was unfortunately weak in many regards and never truly had power except that which was given by those who sought to control him and his kingdom. From the little I read about him, he would later be consumed by paranoia and become senile to the point that his mental state would be called into question.
Does that sound like our current resident Biden of the USA? I think it's exactly what's happened the last 3 and a half years!
He wasn't consumed by ''paranoia'', he apparently had mental illness which at times even lead to catatonic stupor.
I love every scene in this play where Margaret rolls a 20 on manipulation and Sommerset is both impressed and terrified by what he has brought to court.
she TOTALLY rolled a 20 on manip, man. i love how imperious and subtly smug she looks 0.1 seconds before slapping the shit out of the Duchess of Gloucester -- because she knows she's got her. and then 2 seconds later, after the Duchess flips on her, she looks so horrified and affronted as if SHE'S the wronged party. nnggghh SO GOOD i wanna watch this whole thing now.
She was cerci Lannister before cerci Lannister (quite literally I think since Game of Thrones was apparently heavily inspired by the Wars of the Roses)
@@seraphik both episodes of Henry VI in the Hollow Crown we’re very good, and I highly recommend them.
Cersei's character was inspired by Margaret of Anjou, and one can see why:)
Well, Margaret of Anjou had a brain. I never noticed Cersei's.
Cersei has ruthless and scheming, power hungry but not cunning
@@ajvanmarle She was cunning but like Cersei she was not a good ruler.
lol, I'm an Asian, if a white guy try to play one of our emperor in a serious play I would probably find it ridiculous.
*Imagine 100 years later, a white guy plays Obama.
chococo Chen exactly. Great point!
Chococo Chen. But all over the world Shakespeare plays are converted into different settings and different cultures and times. That's the nature of Shakespeare and drama. It's universal in scope and nature. That's why it's still relevant today when other plays from his time are forgotten.
Or a White mandela?
Fred C. It depends on whether the race of the person is crucial to the story. Shakespeare makes points about power in his plays that are relevant beyond his time. His plays are not pure history. They're not totally accurate as history. He changed things for dramatic effect and to please the regime of his time. Modern dramatists do the same with Shakespeare's plays to make them more relevant to a modern audience.
Helen Trope But those plays are done in different countries with different ethnicities. How the hell can they even be accurate? This was made to look accurate, but they just decided to change one single person's ethnicity and that is ridiculous.
I mean, Leonardo DiCaprio is just such a great actor, he's definitely the best person to portray Martin Luther King
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂love it
Ahh, you smoothbrains. Making such ludicrously false equivalencies because you just have no concept of how racial issues work, nor their context, nor the function of theater.
An American white man portraying MLK, an American black man who dedicated his life to fighting for civil rights for black Americans. If the potential issues with that escape you, I guess you don’t have any concept of America’s racial history. One which MLK himself was directly involved in. Even if the white actor weren’t American, I assume you’re smart enough to understand why a white actor playing a black man fighting for black civil rights might offend black Americans. If you can’t fathom that...think long and hard.
Now. Let’s talk about these plays. Shakespeare in particular. These plays are repeated through countless productions, and will continue to be performed indefinitely. And race is not a topic in them (Othello being an exception, but I’ll get to that). Now, what precisely is so problematic about a black actor playing the role of a white English noble that puts it equivalent to a white person playing MLK? Nothing. Because the play has nothing to do with topical issues of race like anything concerning MLK would. And as it is a play that is repeatedly performed, one production with a single black actress isn’t robbing you of your precious all-white criteria. You still have many to choose from. So stop bitching, yea? Your whiteness, nor any issues of race, isn’t compromised by any part of this play. Race is only an issue in this case because you’re focusing on the skin color of the actors, rather than their performances, *which is what shakespeare and theater in general is all about* ! Because your lack of understanding of racial issues makes you make dumbass comparisons like this.
Now, Othello. Othello has been played by Patrick Stewart, and a long line of white actors before him, some in blackface. It was generally accepted (blackface notwithstanding) because again, it’s a Shakespeare play. Historical accuracy is not the point, the performances are.
Having a white person play MLK, play or not, within 60 years of his death, when black Americans still face the racism he fought, will obviously be a problem. Having a black actress play an English noble over 500 years dead, in a play written and embellished by someone who wasn’t even there to a point bordering on fiction for entertainment purposes, and which is entirely unconcerned with race or any current events, matters so little that it’s only when racist morons like you start bitching using the most idiotic, desperate arguments possible that it becomes an issue at all. And only then it’s only an issue because you have to be educated on the most basic of racial dynamics in order to shut you up.
@@BeggarsNight What a load of crap. Both blackwashing and whitewashing is offensive.
They had black nobility in Europe
@@patriciagriffith7402 oh you mean they were kings and shit? Wow we’ve never heard that before.
Sophie Okenedo is an outstanding actress and she absolutely kills it as Queen Margaret. It's sad that some on here can only see the colour of her skin and nothing else.
+Duncan Sands It's a play and plays often require us to use our imagination. When this play was written Margaret would've have been played by a young man and I'm sure the original audience didn't have as big a problem with this as some people on here seem to have with the colour of Sophie's skin. This isn't a play about race (as far as I know the war between Yorks and Lancasters wasn't about skin colour) so I feel that your example of a white man playing Malcolm X doesn't really work here although I notice you seem quite keen on using him as an example....
+Duncan Sands Oooh have I upset you?
Context you say? What about a Northern Irish actor playing Richard Plantagenet. He didn't disguise his accent, no comments about that though. Ah, but he's white though so it's all good.
And I seriously doubt that about the BNP marches, although it does depend which side you were on........
+Duncan Sands LOL! I really have touched a nerve with you haven't I? I fully accept that you've conceded to me though...... :)
+Arthel Cargill Agree with what though?
+Arthel Cargill I get the point about Zoe Saldana and I agree with you but I don't believe that Shakespeare mentions the colour of Queen Margaret's skin anywhere in his plays.
Looking forward to Ron Weasley to play the life of Nelson Mandela.
Gross.
She's half white. Half black people play black people all the time. She passes for white to me *Shrugs*
I want to clarify that I calling this comment gross, not the actress.
Dino Fancellu Just watch Gods of Egypt with a Swedish cast, that's the biggest laugh, pink white people as African gods. You people have no shame, crying like you lost your best friend because the sista is doing what you have done since the beginning of film.You play Indians, Chinese people, black people Puerto Ricans and have no problem with it.. At least Queen Charlotte was black and there had been a black Queen of England in history (although not Queen Margaret). Can't say the same is true on the throne of Egypt and in their pantheon of Gods. Last I checked no pink white faces there.But hell that never stops you from lying lol!
It is almost as entertaining as Elizabeth Taylor playing Cleopatra, Charlton Heston as Moses, or Yule Brynner as the King of Siam.
'What minion- can ye not?' The shade.
Denzel Washington would be great playing Abraham Lincoln.
... and freeing white people from slavery
@@TheMurtukov with Quentin Tarantino directing
Don't jinx it...
Sophie Okonedo is SUCH a fantastic actress.
I'm confused. Queen Margaret went from confident to running away crying. What did the Ducchess say that affected her so?
It was a complete 180 for me.
TheCaliMack shame for slapping her maybe
TheCaliMack Upset because the King did not defend his wife against the Duchess.
The Duchess threatened her with revenge at the end but the Queen is very hard and devious. I think the tears weren't real but just part of playing the victim to justify whatever happens to the Duchess afterwards.
Helen Trope The Queen and Duchess did not get on well. By this time, the court was divided: some for Gloucester, some for the Queen. The conflict would eventually result in a battle for the throne.
Katherine Koelker. I don't think this particular conflict between the women results in the battle for the throne, because this incident is between Lancastrians, whereas the battle for the throne was between Yorkists and Lancastrians. The Duchess of Gloucester gets accused of witchcraft and is imprisoned or exiled for that. Gloucester is imprisoned and murdered. Sorry for the spoilers.
Damnnn she smack the living day lights out . 👀
The casting of a black woman to play a lily white historical figure is utterly ridiculous even if it is a play, just like it would be insane to have a white woman playing Harriet Tubmam or another historical black person.
Many comments about the casting, almost none about the play, from people who've not watched the whole play I suspect. In some castings, like that of Harriet Tubman, the race of the character is important to the drama but it's not crucial in this play for Margaret. She was regarded as a foreigner anyway as she was French but it's not crucial that she be played by a French woman.
consider offing yourself Helen, you're a mindless social justice warrior.
Evil etc. What do you mean "offing" and who are you to tell me what to do?
Evil etc. I've just looked up "offing" in the urban dictionary. It refers to suicide. I've now reported you for cyber bullying. Have a nice day.
you're defending black washing, if you did it the other way around the social justice brigade would do more then call you names online.
But Sally Hawkins' acting in this scene needs more recognition
Isn't she the fish banger.
People are too busy appealing to white supremacy to recognize how great she is in this scene.
@@HomoChomsky Black supremacy is real
@@historicamenteindependient5778 no it’s not smh
Omg love this scene!!
To be fair when you Queen tells you to do something and you act bold you should expect that slap
Not if the Queen has any sense. This is an insult that by the standards of the time could never be forgiven. Even royalty was not above tradition and the last thing the king needed was to alienate nobility like this.
@@ajvanmarleUm…When the Queen held her Ladies back and looked at the Duchess to pick up her fan, that was a Royal Command. The Duchess steps forward and looks at the Queen. The Queen asks, “Can ye not?” Wanting to know if she is physically unable to bend down. The Duchess looks defiantly at the Queen in a microsecond and then the slap comes. What the Duchess has done is defy a Royal order and has made it known she is an enemy of the Queen. The Queen quickly turns tables to become the hurt party. Brilliant politics here!
2:04 - the queen slaps the peeress
Why aren't people complaining that Margaret wasn't a black woman? Everytime I watch a clip about Cleopatra there are hundreds of comments complaining because she is depicted as a white woman (even though she was greek, so yes, white)...
I guess whitebashing is politcally correct... black bashing is not.
There are hundreds of complaining comments here. Are you too lazy to read them?
Your comment is spot on correct Rebecca.
Smash Mouth. You are another one who hasn't read the hundreds of whinging comments here about the casting
You are whining
Uhm,this is awkward but last time I checked,Greeks were white.
Queen Margaret never spoke in iambic pentameters! This kind of historical inaccuracy is not only wrong by all standards, but it is also simply disrespectful of English history!
Lydgate83 They used Shakespeare's script from Henry VI. Looks like they left out some of the Duchess' speech in this one.
...its a joke because people are flipping out about Queen Margaret being black
Lydgate83 english history is full of germans and black nobility
Christine A even the royals are german decent and have black blood flowing in there vains queen Charlotte was a black women she was one of the queens of England
Philip Franklin I do not know about black nobility. But the present Royal Family has a partially German background.
Margaret is very tanned in this, must have been a heatwave in England that year.
But she was white
@@historicamenteindependient5778 mister obvious
Sophie okonedo is a beast. This woman can act the pants off of every A list Hollywooder hands down. Too bad she doesn't get much work, but she is still one of my favorite actresses. her portrayals come so deep from her being and gut that I just can't ignore her.
But Margaret was WHITE and French
So what? If Olivier can play Othello, Okonedo can play Margaret. Does not matter who the actor is, as long as the character comes to vivid life.
@@deehuckleberry3999 two wrongs don't make a right
It was stupid then and it's stupid now.
@@wbheightfive6760holy shit who cares
She doesn't get much work? She acts constantly both in films/TV AND on stage. British AND American
Wakanda forever lol😂😂😂😂
Sophie Okonedo is an amazing talent. What a flawless scene capturing so many levels and elements of this story in such a short moment. What a smart way to show how we envision the "other".
I thought Margaret of Anjou was from France not from Mauritania
Lol! Woah! That was like a high noon quick draw in a western! Everybody was quiet and tense.
You people are outraged when an Egyptian whose skin is "too white" plays an Egyptian, but it's perfectly acceptable for a black woman to play a white woman because it's a character in a play, even though the "character" was a real person. Don't make me laugh. Your hypocrisy is palpable.
@vanessa mziray "Hurr durr, we wuz English nobility. You don't make sense!" That's you.
Shakespeare said Margaret was young, fair maiden but Okonedo is 47 years old and not fair skinned. Its historically inaccurate.
KC Miles.One historical description I read about Margaret was that her skin was quite tanned. She came from the South of France where it's hot. Also Okonedo does not look her age. She looks much younger.
OctoV70. Don't watch it then, if you don't like it. Your dramatic "suspension of disbelief" isn't working. Juliet in Romeo and Juliet is usually played by someone much older than 13 years but people don't usually complain.
People don't complain about it because it's not politically motivated. Also tanned skin doesn't mean african ancestry.
Sally Hawkins and Sophie Okondeo were both brilliant in this scene... wow the intensity!!
No.
Amazing scene. The Duchess’ expressions and the Queens as well were just incredible.
“What minion? Can he not?” The Duchess pays for her insolence and disrespect.
"Can ye not?". The Duchess refused to pick up the fan. Yet in time she would be caught up in something considered far worse.
Ah…but the Queen also knew who her enemies were in that moment. Great scene!
Historical inaccuracy aside, this is not even Shakespeare's portrait of Margaret. Crappy job from script writer.
The establishment aims to rewrite history in order to propagate the lie that Europe was multicultural.
@@thedifferenttraveller5684 She’s half-white
@@alexissimpson5819 again, no. Half nigerian and half ashkenazi jewish
@@alexissimpson5819 no amount of copying and pasting that ridiculous comment is gonna make it better you braindead sheep.
@@thedifferenttraveller5684 It was, go cry to Boris Johnson.
i like the way margaret slapped that woman, it was like "how dare u look at me peasant". i like watching the nobles get put in their place
If I don’t see Benedict Cumbatch as Shaka Zulu soon I’ll be fuming
What is that?!Please what?!That can’t be the English History!
“Those who control the present, control the past and those who control the past control the future.”
Wow yes, truly looks just like Queen Margaret, fantastic casting.
But heaven forbid you cast a white actor as a historically black or Asian person. Funny how that works.
@@en21b It has happened plenty enough.
@@bertilliozephyrsgate6196 and its now comdemed and nob0dy likes that if the same standard must be applied to this
Margaret was the original Stunt Queen haha. Slapping her, but then wailing and running out XD
And she was WHITE
Next up, the life of Obama played by Richard Spencer
OR RICHARD GERE
that's racist and very insensitive towards people of hawaaian and kenyann descent.
@@damarh yeah it would be wouldn't it. 😂
This is a play - a work of fiction. Even though it's based on true events, it really has no bearing weather the actors particularly look like the real life people their characters are based on. It's a story of Britain then told by Britain now. She was the actor they felt best suited what they wanted from this role, and frankly I think she knocks it out of the park!
+Cheekypop white people don't have a history of being prejudiced and discriminated against, nor are we in any way underrepresented in the media, unlike people of colour. It's not the same thing. Also, what is so wrong with striving for diversity?
+Danish Nerdess Go campaign for diversity in Bollywood and Japan. No? Diversity just means less white people.
+Connor D your comment is idiotic because you're comparing diversity in Britain and the U.S. to India and Japan, ignoring the fact that the latter two are largely homogenous just because it doesn't fit into your narrative of attempting to portray white actors as victims. Now, if you were to compare how Japan treats Koreans and Chinese immigrants to how America treats it's immigrants of color then you're on to something. But you're still comparing apples and oranges.
+Danish Nerdess that's irrelevant, either characters should be authentic to their race or they shouldn't be. Not one rule for one group and another rule for another.
WinterAffair
Non whites should have never been allowed to settle in our homogeneous country.
historical inaccuracy aside, Sophie's acting is phenomenal
No
It is. Too bad she is being used as a "statement", which in a way is very racist.
She’s half-white
@John Doe Yes
I would prefer the Queen Margaret of Cashew instead...😆
The comment section makes my troll heart cry tears of joy. Can we get a Mexican man (with a heavy accent) to play King Henry VIII? And for the love of God, please make all the wives Asian.
Queen Margaret was seen as a foreigner in England. Though she was French, Sophie Okonedo's background acts as a metaphor for that sense of difference.
@@heliotropezzz333 Riiiight, ;^)
@@jacktrevino1108 Any relation to Lee?
Or Richard III
"Un caballo!
My kingdom por un CABALLO!"
@@tlotpwist3417 Do you mean Richard III?
I do question what would happen if you cast a white woman as Storm from the x-men or a white man as Othello. this is just forced diversity to the detriment of historical accuracy. People went batshit crazy when that horrible film gods of Egypt used white people to portray ancient Egyptians yet when a black woman plays an historical English queen we're told to pipe down because of political correctness.
Mel1lvar I agree they also use European looking biracial to play Storm a bad repretion of dark skin black women
Mel1lvar i wonder what would happen if they cast jesus as a white man. Ohh they do.
Mel1lvar. Othello has been played by white people in black face before black players were allowed to play in the theater. So what’s your offense?
of course shut up
Cleopatra? Elizabeth Taylor? Really?! An Egyptian? We do know where Egypt is located right? Ricardo Montalban played a Native American in Westerns. Please, don’t get me started.
Umm Margaret of Anjou wasn't black in the least bit
She is literally nicknamed the white queen for god's sake !
@@scinformation7229
yeah i mixed them together ( elizabeth and margareth ), doesn't change the fact that she was white and blond in all her depictions .
Who cares it’s a show/movie
@jay bell she was a related to Ptolemy, one of great Alexander's generals and first Greek king of Egypt. Do you even know history?
@@stormbringer2840 No she wasn't. Elisabeth Woodville was known as "the White Queen".
Would really love to watch this movie sadly I don't speak Shakespeare.
@Smiles and the Twisted MD *One does not simply understand a joke*
@Smiles and the Twisted MD*It's still a joke though*
That was too funny! 😂😂😂
@Smiles and the Twisted MD I'm glad you finally laughed for the first time in 3 weeks. I'm now gonna let the 57 likes on that *joke* speak for itself.
Same
I hadn't seen these episodes yet from The Hollow Crown. The previous ones with Jeremy Irons and Tom Hiddleston were amazing. This could only be better, with Sophie Okonedo in it!
So if there will be white Martin Luther King represented by Anthony Hopkins it'll be OK? Since actors talent is the most important thing and his appearence and visual similarity with the character is irrelevant? Or it only works one way?..
If it's the kind of thing where historical accuracy is important, but Shakespeare always played around with history. It's drama not historical fact. Shakespeare plays have been set in a variety of times with a variety of actors. There have been all male players and all female players and a Macbeth set in Nazi times etc etc
All movies are fictional. None is historical. Only documentaries are historical. That being said even in fictional work the characters must be believable. This isn't. It's just a political... joke.
Centurion. It's certainly not a joke. It's a good performance and you forget about the casting if you watch the whole thing and get involved with it. Also the character she's playing was regarded with suspicion and dislike, being a foreigner (French). Though Sophie isn't French her casting acts as a good metaphor for people perceiving her different background at the time
It would be controversial and there will always be someone offended and willing to protest but on something like that I would not care because it was an actor like Anthony Hopkin. Just don't put him in dark make up and/or a curly wig and I'm fine with it. That's what happened for years to rolls for blacks, asians, Native American and Mexican characters. It would just be white actors made up to look like other races. The Wayne brothers could never make White Chicks now a days. I don't know why white people did not protest that movie at the time.
Solomeya Shiukashvili what about all the years whites have played the roles of people of color? This is basically what this has looked like to us for years ! See how you don’t like it ? How do you think we felt all those years with black and yellow face being the most common?
She slapped her so hard she forgot sign language and got her voice back.
In the BBC’s next WW2 movie I demand that Hitler be portrayed as a proud black lesbian
or perhaps he could be played by an Etonian Gamer.
🤣😂Damn u guys! Now im imagining it...NOOOOOOOO!🤣😭
She’s half-white
😂😂😂😂
Why can’t everyone recognize that, when portraying a historical figure, it’s imperative to cast an actor that actually looks like the figure in question. History is my favorite subject so it really pains me to see it butchered like this. Can’t wait to see a movie with black samurai and kamikaze pilots flying around.
So do they have to go to Anjou and find someone who looks like a typical Anjou woman?
@@heliotropezzz333
A typical anjou woman can be fair to tan skinned with either red hair , blond hair or black hair .
By the way she is literally called the white queen with 0 african blood , Im pretty sure it is quite wrong .
Shakespeare was never about historical accuracy but about stories and drama which have universal themes, so his plays are often produced in modern times in different eras and settings with different types of cast. Those who criticise this casting are not real fans of Shakespeare I think and don't watch his plays much.
Helen Trope There is political agenda behind casting of this role. It is the agenda of the same interest group which arranged the Harry - Meghan marriage. Remember “Those who control the present, control the past and those who control the past control the future.”
@@BalkanMode Oh lighten up and join the 21st century. I'm sure they said that the first time women were allowed on stage. Shakespeare had to use men dressed as women of course.
And now Tom is playing Morpheus in The Sandman. Awesome actor 🔥
Black Margaret of Anjou. Incredible. This absolutely insulting European history and our traditions.
Jedovatý Natis Nobody cares.
Jedovatý Natis yes it is insulting our ancestors (I am French myself)
+Esseynelle Having black actress to play a Shakespeare play is insulting? Does seeing black people offends you? Cause you need help.
seenorhear am black and i agree dont cast white people in black people roles and vice versa would you cast tom cuise as nelson mandela if a role has to do with a certain enithicity then dont do it it is historically correct
seenorhear Queen Margaret is not a fictional character. All though Shakespeare's historical drama plays are not necessarily historically accurate, the characters were real people. If we were to cast a black woman as Queen Margaret, how about we cast Hugh Jackman as Shaka Zulu or Kenneth Branagh as Nelson Mandela? Changing the race of a historical figure is absurd at best.
Yeah I'm gonna pass on this one. One reason people like costume dramas, no Frankfurt School.
Black nobles? In the renaisssnce?
All these people complaining about the black actress playing Queen Margaret. Where were they when Jim Caviezel played Jesus Christ, when Charlton Heston played Moses, or when John Wayne played Genghis freaking Khan?
Yea that was fucked up.. I guess we just need to rely on people knowing their history.
The saviour of man born in the Middle East couldn't possibly be white. BUT, this has been f&@c!ed with for millennia so white man would identify with the figure head of a foreign religion that was usurping their native faiths in order to control Europe, and to this day that was never amended in the minds of most white people.
Genghis Khan couldn't be mistaken as a white man though as he's regularly taught about it schools.
But, Henry VI? And even more questionable his wife?
Personally, I was never taught about the English monarchy in the Australian public schools I attended (I taught myself about this stuff long after I finished school). This could definitely be taken out of context and fool the less equipped.
To Charlton Heston and John Wayne the answer is simple; Bankability. Name me a famous, bankable asian actor from 1956 who could have played Genghis, name me a famous bankable actor from 1956 who looks like they could be from the Levant? Thankfully today there are actors of all ethnicities to play these parts but at the time Hollywood was still lily white. Also lets face it; white actors have played Jewish and Jewish has played white for decades and no-one bats an eyelid.
This isn't 1956, the BBC made a concious choice to cast a black actress for a white role.
Tell them.
Logan Cox, I acctualy agree, it is stupid that Semitic characters from the Bible were played by White European actors, as it is stupid that a black woman should be playing a medieval French woman.
De fff look at my long post below, in wich I have explained my viewpoint. Yes ofcourse I am equally opposed, my problem is also that criticising black actors playing non-black characters will be carachterised as racist, whilst that is not the case with white actors playing non-whites, wich is good becouse such things should always be called out, but people (and it's ussualy not black people, but mostly guilt-ridden Whites) seem to be annoyed when people are against black playing non-blacks. So I think they are the acctual hypocrites. Furthermore I have a enormous problem with the ''diversity quota'' concept, the sad fact that miss Okonedo was cast as the Queen simply to spice things up and start these kinds of conflicts, she was, I am convinced, becouse I know how modern producers function. And that is so inherently racist towards non-Whites, becouse these idiots assume that black people are so one-dimensional that they will acctualy feel better if they see one of their own on the stage or in the film, eventough it is in a role no one would rationally put them in, the absurd idea that people of colour acctualy spend time thinking about these things and wishing them, this patronizing idea that blacks and/or other minorities in White countries are so sensitive that God forbbid these sorts of things wouldn't happen and God forbbid even more that someone would think of criticising them. It is simple when people, no matter if they are White or Black or Asian, go and see a movie about medieval England they don't expect to see people other than Whites appearing on screen, when they go to see a historical movie set in medieval China, they expect to only see Asians there and ofc if they are going to see a movie set in old Africa they only expect to see Blacks in it.
It;s like they were having a competition of who could overact the most.
Why can't we celebrate African history more instead of trying to make them part of European history?
Mank Demes If we did that we’d need to watch a lot of meat, skin, and possibly genitals as part of the “diverse” African history. By the time Europeans arrived there was not even a two story house in Africa.
so all the black actors need to go to africa to work?? and hten the african actors are gonna say why cna they celebrate african actors potraying african hisotry instead of foreing actors
If you like it or not. They are apart of European History. George the 3rd of England wife for example had African blood in her.
And I dont see a problem. With a black actress, playing the part. Of a European French white Queen of England.
@@sarahjuarez1433 Lol, is this satire?
I'm the bloody Queen mate, basically, I rule!
Oh yea, Doctor Who reference~
Yeah I was Like I just saw the episode (again 😂) and this is in my recommendation and then there's your comment with the reference of Doctor Who 😂 loving it
If You're the Queen I'm The Princess!!!🤣😘🤗🤭💖💕
a black Margaret of Anjou?? what is the next? an asian Henry the VIII???
noti tuz its disgusting!
noti tuz Or a Japanese Macbeth (see Throne of Blood)
Or an American or English Hamlet or Romeo. Tut tut.
noti tuz Probably ..lol ..Or a black Henry ..
I'm just gonna say it your being painfully racist look at the times people
They shouldn't have hired her.
Same goes for the Cleopatra shit, plus Cleo wasn't black or white, more like ancient Middle-East Arabs (Babylonian, Syrian, Any Asian minor)
This might be a play, but if you know how our world works and if you know about history, it's just so ridiculous to have a black person play any of those characters like wtf how did she get from Africa to England and why does Henry look completely white when he should be mixed?
Triggered snowflake alert
@@ianvera4299 at the time there werent any blacks in england. only 40 years later the first blacks would arrive as servants of catherine.
@@bogdan1213 The moors have existed in Europe since the 8th century. But this is not a historical documentary, this a play written by someone who is clearly not a historian.
@@ianvera4299 yes they did. check out The Myth of the Andalusian Paradise
@@ianvera4299 Moor = Amazigh =/= black African. A Moor is a North-African looking like Zinedine Zidane...
Some consistency issues: 2:15 Queen in shock 2:18 Queen at ease 2:21 Queen in shock
Queen Margaret WAS NOT BLACK !
This is SHAKESPEARE!
The actress isn’t Black.
By the way she is half white
Of course not!She is a European Woman!We European Women and Men too are 100%White Humans!!!
@@alexissimpson5819 That is the same!That is black!
Yikes, and I thought MY family had issues
Forget the color of her skin, that fake cry was the cringiest thing I've ever seen
Mande Loo You were meant to understand that it was fake. This is a powerful woman one minute, pretending to be the victim the next. This is a public demonstration, so that the downfall of the Gloucesters that follows from this scene is understood and accepted by the Court.
but the fact that changed her skin color almost turned me into nazi
You're probably pretty well a nazi already then. Didn't you know? This is not site for comments from Shakespeare lovers, but for petty minded racists - judging by the comments anyway. Most wouldn't know Shakespeare if he bit them on the backside.
you know what? Forget it what i said.
But changing history because some members of certain ethnic group are lazy to study history pisses me off.
by the way i have nothing against black people, asians, arabians but this thing cringe me.
I think it's about widening the audience for plays like this, not just in Britain but internationally (in the US for instance). It's played more as a drama than a strict history. If it was a history programme I'm sure they wouldn't be so flexible with the casting.
Margaret of Anjou I like to believe was a very strong individual, this being the women who held the house of lancaster together. Her potrayal by Conn Iggulden was much better in the war of the roses series
except this play is not war of the roses. Keep it moving, Tuffty
@@rebeccaherschman3069 Girl... you sound like a dipshit 🤣
I am outside western countries bubble. But why Margaret of Anjou casted by a black woman?
She’s a very good Actor. Great scene!
It’s Shakespeare company, they choose actors fit the role as depicting in the play. It’s Shakespeare afterall, not history
This is why one has to read and get as much information on anything, before forming an opinion. Goodness.
An impossible meeting. When Margaret of Valois arrived to England to marry the King, the Duchess of Gloucester was already arrested under the accusation of sorcery.
Shakespeare was never an accurate source of history. As a dramatist he was more interested in the drama of his stories.
Margaret of Anjou, not Valois.
sophie okonedo's performance here is literally amazing, she deserves so much more recognition
@Smiles and the Twisted MD it wasn't advertised as a historical film, it was meant to be a Shakespearean production, and in those it doesn't matter who actually plays the character, it just matters on the portrayal. historically, women didn't even act in the plays, it was prepubescent boys. i think the entire show was well made and had very talented actors including sophie, but none actually looked like the actual person. so tbh it doesn't matter if people of a different ethnicity of an actual person plays a Shakespearean character because for centuries people of different genders and ethnicities have played the characters :) of course if it was a historical film, it would be expected a woman of French descent would play Margaret of Anjou, but this is not meant to be a historical film. It is a Shakespearean production :)
@Smiles and the Twisted MD ma'am can you calm down, i was appreciating a actors portrayal of a Shakespearean character? it is not a historical film and shouldn't be held as such.
@Smiles and the Twisted MD thank you for giving me your opinion on the topic. im aware that these events happened, i study them, but once again i will state this is Shakespeare, not a documentary. it's a play and any actor or actress can act in them :) but i appreciate your opinion and thank you for taking the time out of your day to talk to me :)
@Smiles and the Twisted MD ma'am, I'm currently studying them :)
@Smiles and the Twisted MD as i stated before, i am aware that these were people of European descent :) this is not a historical film, it is not event by event and it is not meant to be. this is a Shakespeare production which is a interpretation of real events. for years many people have played these characters and it doesn't matter what their physical appearance would be. If this series was meant to be accurate, king Edward and elizabeth woodville would be portrayed by actors far younger and of course all of the cast would be white as the real people were. the actors and actresses casted were chosen for their skills and ability to properly convey the emotions and themes of the play, not for their physical appearance :)
Ummm why is the queen black?
Wait I get it, it’s a parody
Because she was. Most of Medieval Royals and Nobles were.
I don't see the queen of england here? can someone show me where she is?
Nice blackwashing.
honestly, if this were meant to be a genuine historical replication i could see sense in complaining about queen margarets casting, but its not, this is essentially a stage play being made to tv viewing, and theatre, especially Shakespearean, has had a rather significant effort of not casting by the racial accuracy but the quality of the actor. seriously please get over yourselves, or if you wont then atleast stick to your guns and go protest the rsc for casting anyone non-white in Shakespeares historical plays! i mean bloody hell in their current production of king john king johns played by a woman, and queen elinor god forbid isnt even played by someone white!
please people, get a life
When they stop crying about "whitewashing " then you have a point. Until then stop bitching
EXACTLY. This is far from a literal recreation of history even if they'd cast 100% white actors.
@@steveiam5762 She’s half-white
@@alexissimpson5819 and? The left cries about whitewashing all the time
@@steveiam5762 I’m saying she’s not Black.
For the last 400 years acting troops or companies of every race, creed and color have performed Shakespeare's plays and in every language on earth. Did you know that after the American Civil War newly freed slaves performed Shakespeare's plays in the streets of Boston and New York? Hamlet was performed in Japanese a few years ago with a cast that was all from Japan. It just goes to show you everyone loves Shakespeare!!!! You don't have to look like King John to play him. You don't have to skinny to play him and you don't have to be white to play him. You just have to love Shakespeare. I think that is what the producers are trying to say here. Shakespeare is for everyone!!!! So sorry some of you are so blind that you don't get that.
So sorry you are so stupid not to realize that this is based on HISTORY. The queen was not black. Wishful thinking won’t make it so.
THIS!!!
@@karmasauce6288i wanna see white Harriet Tubman
interesting how they kept all them white except 1 blackwashed Queen 🙄 i didn't see asian, latino, indian, etc
That’s not Queen Margaret
I am looking in the wrong direction. I came to the BBC to see Shakespeare, not social engineering.
Kite Flying Pooh bbc hates whiteness.
Exactly. Facts do not matter to BBC anymore.
The fact that the Doctor has only ever been a white guy has always been bizarre. He should be able to regenerate into a whole slew of races, genders, and appearances.
Eh. Who cares? It's Shakespeare, not an actual documentary?
you guys are so racist and yet still try to deny hahaha!
For everyone making racist comments, I want to remind you that while you all are hating from your parents' basement, that brilliant actress is getting paid to perform on the BBC and her star is ascending, as you waste your own time and life with hate and vitriol.
So you wont have a problem if Nelson Mandela were to be played Hugh Jackman.
Lechiffresix six But that doesn't matter, we have to have cultural enrichment in those characters.
Hennessy Blues oh no, language is the primary requirement ( communication is key ). Find me that fine british actor who is very well versed in Xhosa then we'll talk.otherwise he'll only bring his skin tone as an asset. you see sophie is a thespian and she brought sharp languistic skills. and guess what she is a jew also ( that part you hate the most )
Lechiffresix six There are language classes actors can take. I'm sure that will help.
Lechiffresix six *he'll only bring his skin tone as an asset.* You say.
Wow, that sounds just like affirmative action.
I'm black and I have a question: Why is Queen Margaret black? That's racist in so many levels and for so many different ethnicities (mine included)
Why?
For white people: Is a missrepresentation of the population and important characters of a particular historical period, and an exclusion from the casting process based on race and political agenda (textbook racism).
For black people: Instead of giving us interesting, new black characters, true to our ethnic and cultural identity and heritage, we are stuck with having to play and see representation of white characters played by black people. Is condecending, patronizing and plain racist.
The Shakespeare argument: Theatre and cinema are 2 very different artistic vehicles, where cinema is tide to a partiall or total representation of reality while theatre is not. Some good example of some tastefull film adaptations of Shakespeare's theatre work could be:
Macbeth (2015): Conserving most of Shakespeare original dialog with a realistic attempt of depiction of Scotish people from that period.
The Merchant of Venice (2004): Again conserving most of Shakespeare original dialog with a realistic attempt of depiction of Italian people from that period.
Romeo + Juliet (1996): A radical transformation of the classic, set in a different place and time that justify a multiracial casting, while conserving most of Shakespeare original dialog.
RAN (1985): A feudal Japan version of King Lear, Ran is an interesting take on Shakespeare work. retelling a classic tragedy with a completely different setting and culture. THIS is the best example as to why these modern SJWs BS does not know how to even make diversity and inclusion right. In RAN you DO NOT have an all Celtic cast with a Japanese king (which would be racist, stupid and tasteless, just like this representation of Queen Margaret), instead you have an all Japanese cast and a story set in feudal Japan, strongly showing the asian culture in a very respectfull way. This is genious filmaking and a milestone in how Shakespeare work can be acomodated to represent any culture and period, and still successfully explore human nature.
I disagree. It doesn 't necessarily mean the casting excluded any group. She was probably the best actress they auditioned and that's why she got the part. This isn't a film. It's a TV series of Shakespeare plays. Why is race the most important characteristic to be accurate about? Shakespeare plays can never be 100% because the original characters are dead and no single person will be exactly the same as the original no matter what their race. With Shakespeare plays, you have to use your imagination.
@@heliotropezzz333 This is postmodern trash dressed masquerading as legitimate criticism.
@@heliotropezzz333 Shakespeare did mess with historical accuracy, but I’m sorry. The Queen was a white woman.
"Wakanda forever!!!"
Wait what?
"I'm Irish. YOU RACIST OR WHAT?"
oke lets cast martin luther king junior as an asian man.
sarah siajibckx lol get over it!
island girl Over what exactly?
anastasia * over a black actress playing the role of a french queen. Which is what the majority of discussions have been about on this video. Keep up love!
I wonder how many people talking about the actress' skin colour are actually from the countries the real Queen Margaret represented lol -- Shakespeare isn't a history lesson, if you wanted historical accuracy I should think of 100 things to be changed in the play before something as trivial as Margaret's skin colour...
Cleopatra wasn't black though.
Why the heck is the queen black?
I ask myself the same…..🤢🤮🤮🤮🤮🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬👎🏻👎🏻👎🏻👎🏻👎🏻
Am I missing something here, the BBC’s is really taking things to the next level,
c'est margaret d'acajou... 🤣🤣🤣
Um, why is Queen Margaret a black woman in this? In real life she was white.
In real life she was French. White wasn't a racial category then genius
"In real life she was French. White wasn't a racial category then genius" You are joking right? French people at that time were exclusively white, it's not racist, it's a fact.
Marc-Antoine Ravé Exactly. Thank you.
Well I am french, and I personnaly don't give a damn that they chose a black actress to play Margaret, because it is the adaptation of a play. It is not supposed to be historically accurate. Nothing new here, there was Much Ado About Nothing with Denzel Washington in 1993 and it was a good movie. I just can't stand people who try to rewrite history so it fits their political agenda.
anbille c I'd hazard to say you're right, however there were racial categories, they were just more finely divided. I expect that the English would have seen themselves as something entirely different from, say, the Irish. It would however have been perfectly apparent to all in medieval England that if Margaret of Anjou was black, she was in a very distinct category from them.
I don't care what anyone says, this was great.
Historical characters should retain their original race
+manzilla48 So you won't have a problem if in the future Yeshua ("Jesus" isn't the correct pronunciation,either) is portrayed with the CORRECT skin color, right?
www.popularmechanics.com/science/health/a234/1282186/
+DAngelo136 not at all.
+DAngelo136 I doubt any of us complaining about this garbage would.
Alex S.
So what's the "garbage" part? Should "Hamlet" be played by an actual Dane? Should we recruit an actual Italian to play "Julius Caesar"? An actual humpback for "Richard III"?
Did you have a problem with Denzel Washington playing in "Much Ado About Nothing"?
White people lack imagination; has it ever occurred to any of you that one could set "Porgy and Bess" with an all white cast?
After all "Carmen Jones" is a cinematic classic. I'm quite sure fans of Bizet didn't have a problem. Did you object to Dorothy Dandridge in the title role?
White people want to write the rules and then object when those same rules are applied to them. The point was the DRAMATIC moment not the color of the characters.
By the way Sophie Okenedo is a distinguished British actress who trained at RADA so, if anything, she's quite qualified as an actress to play a Shakespearean role. Oh and her ancestry is not only Nigerian, but also Polish, Russian and Jewish. She also received an OBE in 2011.
Beat that with a stick.
+DAngelo136 Italian isn't a race not is Dane. Italians are white so any white actor can play them. Also the statement "whites lack imagination" is a racial generalisation and untrue.
So this means I have a chance to play Michelle Obama after 100 years in a movie
No but you can gladly play a racist right now since you meet the criteria.
The actress isn’t Black. She is mixed race. Do you you know the difference?
I can’t wait until George Clooney plays Martin Luther King Jr. Or does it not work that way around?
Triggered snowflake alert
@@ianvera4299 just calling it as I see
It. If it was the other way around, imagine the fuss people like yourself and the mass media would make. There would be literal tears. And we’re the snowflakes 🌚
@@me323 Yes you are the snowflakes thanks for agreeing.
@@ianvera4299 wow mature argument well done. Bet it took a while to think of that. Maybe come back when you’ve finished school and then people may take you seriously
@@me323 Oh sorry do snowflakes keep trying to stay triggered? I wouldn't know, please keep embarrassing yourself its actually entertaining.
damn girl can't even pick up a fan
Arrogant French woman.
... That slap came out of nowhere
It is in the original play. She slaps her and feigns not having recognizing the Duchess of Gloucester. And after that, she plans to remove Gloucester and his wife. Crocodiles tears.
Good actors...i'd love to see the series!
this is the cringiest thing i have ever seen in my life back to GoT
Xx_Dope_Master_Legend_27_DabMaster_xX yep
The Henry VI plays are among Shakespeare's early works and far from his best. Apart from the stunt casting, the producers have further hurt the plays by cutting large sequences, e.g most of the Joan of Arc portions, that do not fit with present day opinions. An infinitely better version is the 1960 "An Age of Kings" produced by the BBC and starring such actors as Sean Connery, Judy Dench, Julian Glover, Angela Baddeley and Eileen Atkins who plays Joan la Pucelle (Joan of Arc) as Shakespeare wrote her, not as we would want her to be.
I come from the future to warn you not to go back to GoT!
This comment didn’t age well lol
Sophie Okonedo is great in this. I enjoyed the way she emphasises that exercising power involves acting a role and is a performance in itself. I've seen a lot of queries about her playing this role but I imagine they've cast her as Margaret of Anjou to represent the character's perceived 'otherness' as a French woman (in addition to her being a good actor). Different productions will do this to give an audience a clearer idea of contemporary perceptions.
In the recent film about Alexander the Great, the Macedonians are given Irish accents because the Athenian perception of them at the time was that they were a rather rough, backwater people. I think they were seen as being on the periphery; not quite foreign but not quite Greek in the Athenian sense either. I also remember reading a translation of a Greek play where the Spartan characters were written with Scottish accents for a similar approach. The whole idea is to draw more recent parallels and give modern audiences an insight into historical perceptions/biased attitudes that we wouldn't necessarily be aware of otherwise. Sophie was cast as Nancy in 'Oliver Twist' too and did equally well in that.
how can a Queen of medieval England be shown a a black woman.
That is a very good Question!In that time today,I don’t want see a black Queen too!
A great Actor in a very good scene!
Moorish. 💯🩸⚔️
I have to say, that was a GOOD ASS SLAP.
I love this. So dramatic
History nerds in these comments act like they know shit when they lack basic understanding of Shakespearean theater. THIS ISN'T A DIRECT ADAPTATION OF HISTORY, NONE OF SHAKESPEARE'S PLAYS WERE.
Why are you guys all so hung up over the accuracy of this? It's Shakespeare. He wasn't exactly renowned for portraying history as it happened. Yes, Queen Margaret wasn't black, but Richard III wasn't evil. Does it really matter? Everyone knows Shakespeare was heavily influenced by the politics of the era and wrote to appease his audiences and the crown. If that was okay then, why not now? Audiences want good acting over race. Nobody watches Shakespeare and mistakes it for a history lesson, and if they do, quite frankly they are thick :)
Lucy Jayne If you have read the text of Henry VIII, it ends with the christening of the future Elizabeth I, during whose reign Shakespeare lived. Henry VIII was written during Elizabeth's reign.
Because of the hypocrisy.
PC lunacy. Shakespeare said Margaret was a young, beautiful, fair maiden, but Okonedo is 47 years old, not fair or beautiful by any stretch of the imagination.
KC Miles beauty is in the eyes of the beholder
Lucas D oh we can hack it. We are happy. If you people had ever acted like it mattered when the roles were reversed AS THE MAJORITY OF THE TIME THEY ARE we would also support you. Queen Margaret is played by a black women. Get the fuck over it! Like we ALWAYS have to
Queen Margret of Anjou is rolling in her grave.
And now..... steve buscemi as Malcolm X, co-starring Will Ferrell as Muhammad Ali and tom Hanks as MLK Jr.
You can take the boy out of his racist, Idaho, trailer park but you can't....etc..
@@shawn6669 But he’s right. It works both ways or doesn’t work at all….
A black English Queen in 14th century England? ...can someone please explain what the intent is here?
I think it's perfectly charming!
The intent was to show how much of an outsider Margaret was in the English court.
The part was perfectly well played.
Ankita Ashok fuck off you primitive animal
Take a chill pill son
very sad to read the comments about the colour of the actresses skin.
This is not an actual representation of the facts it is a play, Shakespears plays have been shown round the world by so many different actors from so many different backgrounds, the person who plays the part is not as relevant as the part itself. The meaning of the play and the characters mean so much more than what their background is. Besides which all of this is irrelevant if you sant actual Shakesperian reresentation then it should be played with all male cast. But I suppose as long as he is white it would keep some people happy.... sad world, we need a Shakespear to write a play about that.
At the time of Shakespeare, women were barred from performing, and boys were used instead. Here, this is the other way around: whites can perform, and blacks are used instead. The postmodernists who sold you the joke that it was "tradition" are intellectual crooks.
It shows with all the prob of the world today we still deal with this madness
Ali CG
No they aren't. Imagine if I were to make a movie about the medieval African Sultanate of Mali, and cast a White actor/actress to play Mansa Musa, his wife or some other prominent Malian of the time, people would crucify me.
Ali CG I happen to support the choice of actress for queen Margaret. She may have been darker toned since she liked walking in her gardens and was queen militant I believe she may have been tanned
The only problem for me is that it just looks so bizarre having a black character in this context that it breaks the illusion before the illusion has even begun 🤣
She’s half-White, not Black.
@@alexissimpson5819... Way to be pedantic, but whatever, that breaks the illusion EVEN MORE 🤣 What mixed race royal marriages were there in the olden days?
Well, we all knew that the Duchess of Gloucester was once her husband's mistress and then his second wife. It shows that she was pretty cocky that her husband had divorced his first wife under the pretense that their first miscarriage was a sign that their marriage wasn't legal in the eyes of God and the church. She was a mistress already and grab her chance to be his legal wife and make their children legitimate. The way she disrespects the queen was not the smartest move there since they all realized too late how quickly Queen Margaret of Anjou isn't afraid to do the dirty work.
She wasn't black.
Yes!Of course not!!!
I don’t think the creators of this show are trying to argue she was black. There are making an artistic interpretation of this historical figure. Just like shows like this will dramatize things, or change it to be more entertaining, they will change the race of characters for various reasons
Great acting by a wonderful Actor!
GeeeeeeI wonder who is behind this
The serpent seed ofc.
*HAND RUBBING INTENSIFIES*
Is there a problem?
I'm guessing this took place before the WoR so Margaret?
Pharaoh of Kemet Yes, a big one. The queen was a white woman. Not that ulgy piece of BBC Shit.