Final Fantasy 7 Remake's Biggest Unanswered Questions Before Rebirth
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- Опубликовано: 14 июл 2024
- Final Fantasy 7 Remake left me with a lot of questions, and hopefully Rebirth is provide the answers. But I wanted to see your thoughts.
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The world is under the control of Shinra, a corporation controlling the planet's life force as mako energy. In the city of Midgar, Cloud Strife, former member of Shinra's elite SOLDIER unit now turned mercenary lends his aid to the Avalanche resistance group, unaware of the epic consequences that await him. Final Fantasy 7 Remake is a reimagining of the iconic original with unforgettable characters, a mind-blowing story, and epic battles. The story of this first, standalone game in the Final Fantasy VII Remake project covers up to the party’s escape from Midgar, and goes deeper into the events occurring in Midgar than the original Final Fantasy 7. A new chapter awakens with Final Fantasy 7 Remake Intergrade, an enhanced and expanded version of the critically acclaimed and award-winning Final Fantasy 7 remake for the PlayStation 5. It comes bundled with the brand new episode featuring Yuffie as the main character, which introduces an exhilarating new story arc and numerous gameplay additions for players to enjoy.
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Chapters
00:00 - Introduction
0:23 - Today's Sponsor FF7 Ever Crisis
2:05 - What Got Me To Make This Video
4:19 - Sephiroth and Cloud's Shared Visions?
6:29 - What Does Aerith Know?
8:31 - A Worse Fate?
10:01 - Alt Timelines
11:17 - The Whispers
12:23 - Questions? Thoughts?
#FinalFantasy7 #FinalFantasy7Remake #FinalFantasy #FF7 #FF7remake 
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I like to think of the whispers as another type of "Weapon" from the planet, if the Weapons are the Planet's immune system destroying the foreign bodies trying to cause it harm then the whispers would be the preventive side of the immune system. And this Sephiroth, one that has knowledge of what happened in subsequent games and movie basically causes an auto immune response from the planet, causing that immune system to collapse in the end giving him free reign to spread his "infection" freely in rebirth.
They are definitely a force of nature of some kind
The real conflict is aerith and sephiroth off screen
When it comes to Sephiroth, there's a massive clue very early in Remake that Maximilian pointed out in his rerun. The song that plays after Cloud's first contact with Sephiroth is The Promised Land, a song that has only appeared in Advent Children. And it plays right at the start of Advent Children during Marlene's recap monologue of the FF7 story.
so pretty much Remake Sephi is post AC Sephi.
Wait, does this mean that Sephiroth has transcended time and space or something? And if so, perhaps Aerith has similarly transcended? Perhaps there is more to the Lifestream than any one of us can truly know...
@@GmodPlusWoW Basically, it means that there are 2 Sephiroths in the timeline during Remake. The original Sephiroth from the OG is still there doing exactly what he was doing during the original, and this Sephiroth that we see early in the game is a second version of Sephiroth, likely one that found a way to exploit timelines within the lifestream. How, why or what he is doing is still wildly up for debate because he clearly knows he loses, but yet he's here doing something in hopes of achieving a different goal.
Essentially, Sephiroth is basically Biff from Back to the Future.
@@GmodPlusWoW More like the essence of Sephiroth(Jenova) and Aerith(Cetra) have been battling about supremacy, and now they are trying to manipulate events from the past.
The Lifesteam is basically the "cone of Light"-concept made "anime". All past, present and future possible events of the planet, tied together. Sephiroth somehow figured out to manipulate the past of the Lifestream and Aerith's essence followed to try thwarting him.
Spoiler!!!
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Remember, Sephiroth is still dead up until Cloud revives him in the Northern Crater. The Sephiroth we see in "Cloud's Head" in Remake, is basically just his essence influencing Cloud's mental state(as he has S-type Jenova cells. He is basically being corrupted). And because Sephiroth "knows" the future, so does Cloud see parts of it as well(as they are connected).
Sephiroth's physical manifestations are parts of Jenova(controlled by Sephiroth's essence) taking his form to enact his will upon the world.
@@jjkurtz03there’s 4 Sephiroths
so in the remake recap video the voice over states that the whispers are the arbiters of fate, and that Sephiroth had somehow absorbed them or merged with them(I believe it said the whispers were undulating within Sephiroth) and by having Cloud strike him down they broke fate and set the story on a path that is different from the original story.
I always read the ending of the original to mean that they stopped using mako and so midgar was never rebuilt after it was wrecked by the meteor.
IE you accomplished what Barret was trying to achieve at the beginning.
Yeah they stopped using mako because it was actually shown to people how it's destroying the planet. I think it simply wasn't rebuilt because of the memory. We saw throughout the game that Midgar isn't the ONLY city.. there's tons more out there that don't utilize mako. There's also a possibility of like Midgar being irradiated or something along those lines. I never thought seeing just Midgar overgrown meant ALL of humanity is gone. That'd really make no sense to me. Though I think we'll find out more because Aerith obviously knows something.
I would like to point out that what they ended up using instead(among other things) is OIL. So they might very well still be heading toward a bleak future.
A theme of VII is mindless consumption. Mako was simply taking that concept to the extreme, but we see other cases of exploitation and excess(and the resulting pollution).
Unless the people of the world would change their ways and try to live in harmony with the planet, they will never reach the promised land.
And in the original timeline, human civilization eventually collapses, and the whispers steer events toward that reality to save the planet(away from Meteor and human pollution).
The original ending could technically be called the "bad" ending considering there are no humans left, Red telling Cloud during the fight against the big bad destiny when the flashback/flashforward was shown, that it's their future if they fail, hinting towards that original ending being bad etc, and we're heading towards a slightly different ending if we're successful during Rebirth and Part 3.
@@Soutar3DG It wasn't a bad ending though. it only showed you three things
1. Red (believed to be the last of his kind) had children.
2. Humanity stop using mako and never rebuilt midgar.
3. The planet healed from meteor.
At no point did it say everyone was dead. That wouldn't even make any sense.
Aren’t people laughing at the end of the scene as well?
My thought / prediction. Aerith will know she'll need to die. Sephiroth NOW knows that killing her was the biggest mistake he made. Killing her lead to the white Materia activating.
Sephiroth will NOT kill her this timeline and we'll have the option (or even be forced) to kill her to preserve the timeline or at least save the planet. Zach (now in this timeline) will try to stop us and maybe even become an adversary to cloud (Think Halo 5). We'll probably play as Zach (with Wedge and more(2nd Cloud??)). There might even be two clouds in this timeline. Sephiroth and Cloud are probably a packaged deal. Were one goes (or When in this case) the other is forced to follow. Shoot we might even have two Sephiroth. And they could be working together.
I really want to know at what point Rebirth ends and we have to wait for the next game. Both Sephiroth and Aerith know more than they're letting on, so since Cloud and co have beaten "fate", what happens in the City of the Ancients? Some key people we know died in the OG but not in the remake, and some even died in the remake but was brought back to life again. Everything is still definitely up in the air.
Speaking of theorycrafting, Jesse should really get in touch with Maximillian Dood. That guy has knowledge of all things FF7 and I would love to hear you guys talk about it (maybe even make him a guest on your podcast with Dodger.
Apparently in Japanese the Sephiroth at the End of the World speaks more like the pre-bad-guy version we meet in Crisis Core, which possibly means there's a version of Sephiroth who either didn't go crazy or somehow regained his sanity out there influencing events as well? Maybe pretending to be crazy so the Whispers wouldn't notice that he's deviated from his goals in the original game, and the pronoun change when he's trying to get Cloud to join him is him dropping the act when no one else is looking?
(Okay I mostly just want Cloud to have to team up with Sephiroth at some point because I think it'd be neat, but I thought it was an interesting tidbit.)
One of the thoughts I had while playing the game was that the Whispers act as if they only know the broad strokes of the original story just like someone who never played the original game and learned about it through pop culture osmosis. One example is that the Whispers tried to force Cloud to participate in the Reactor mission but by hurting Jessie, Avalanche had to scrap the original infiltration method because Jesse was the one who originally made everyone's fake IDs to get on the train. Because Jesse got hurt, the timeline changed and the Team had to use an alternate route that required grappling hooks, which butterfly effects into ensuring Wedge survives the fall from the Plate Support, allowing him to convince the Shinra Guards to evacuate countless civilians from the Sector before the plate fell. The Whispers got what they wanted but there is no way hundreds (if not thousands) or people who were fated to die do not make an impact in the new timeline.
Interesting take but I have to disagree with the Whispers only knowing broad strokes. I think they know exactly how the original plot points played out and who needed to be in what spots. I think they showed that a number of times. Using your example, they needed to force Cloud to sleep in and not leave after the first mission. They needed Jesse to get hurt so that Avalanche would recruit him to the next mission so he would have to fall and meet Aerith again.
I do agree the biggest change from OG would be Wedge's saving any number of people. It is completely possible that Wedge/Aerith kind of did this in the first game since we dont see them at all (Its been a long time, I feel like Wedge survived the fall which felt weird at the time). Since Remake had Midgar fleshed out more there's a handful of newer named NPCs like Marle and Wyatt (I think? Guy that gives the Sector 7 quests) that survive but I still don't know how much of an impact in the overall story they will have.
I feel the answer on the whisperers is found in the train graveyard. Aerith seems to connect to one ghost and seems protective of it. I believe she even suggests the ghost was scared and may even help them here and there. However, the majority of the ghosts are after the party. When they defeated the Eligor, the ghosts were freed because they were being held there by Eligor. It was controlling the ghosts to do what it wants.
That, I feel, is what is happening with Sephiroth and the whisperers. Sephiroth is tainting the whisperers. Changing the world's history, or fate, to benefit himself. Some whisperers are fighting Sephiroth and trying to help Cloud's party. They saved Barrett when Sephiroth killed him. They stopped Cloud from possibly killing Rufus since that could turn Cloud to the "dark side"; along with Rufus being an ally in the future.
That is what it feels like to me.
The video logs with Ilfana in FF7 in the Icicle City near the Northern Cave are really informative, and likely overlooked::
"Something [Jenova] fell from the sky, marking a large wound."
The northern cave area is cold and withered away because of this wound, and the planet is expending a lot of energy to heal that wound.
(This is like the opposite of when you get a wound that takes a while to recover, because in the human body, the wounded area becomes inflamed and hotter. Everything else is is otherwise the same: take better care of yourself, and you heal faster.)
The Cetra (Ancients), as stewards of the planet, tried to cultivate the planet so that the lifestream was healthy.
As the Cetra were finishing up their stewardship, that's when the 'crisis from the sky' [Jenova] came.
"It looked like our dead mothers and brothers. *Showing us spectres of their past.*"
"*He* first approached as a friend, deceived then, and finally gave them the virus."
The Cetra were attacked by the virus, and transformed into monsters.
"*He* then approached other Cetra clans and infected them."
Somewhat unclear, because Sephiroth's true body is in a cocoon of materia in the Northern Cave. But perhaps the infectious nature of Jenova / Sephiroth is that they are able to manipulate and influence others akin to telepathy, even at great distances.
"You see, as long as Jenova exists, the planet will never be able to fully heal itself."
"A small number of the surviving Cetra defeated Jenova, and confined it."
"The planet produced weapon. But it was no longer necessary to use it."
"Even though Jenova is confined, it could come back to life at some time."
"The planet has not fully healed itself yet (it can't, Jenova still exists). It's still watching Jenova."
To this day, I'm still trying to wrap my head around all this. It's been forever since I watched Advent Children, and I've not played Dirge of Cerberus, so I'm missing pieces that are relevant.
Still, the story under the story of FF7 and the remake are what make it super fascinating.
Definitely play Remake again if you're looking forward to Rebirth. That hugging scene between Marlene and Aerith still has me unnerved. Like what did Marlene see? So interesting.
Not to mention the part where Aerith does the same to Red when you find him. She has some connection to all this. I think like Jesse said, her and Sephiroth’s consciousnesses remain in the lifestream and are still at war in the 4th dimension (time). I also think people aren’t considering a 3rd entity enough: Jenova.
@@SternSupremacy Sephiroth and Jenova are basically one entity now. Sephiroth is the will, while Jenova is "life", in the sense of resillience, power, adaptation etc.. Like a cancer. Since Jenova "died" in its fight against the Cetra, it has lacked a "will". It was simply "pure, uncontrolled life".
The soldier program was an experiment to try and merge humans with Jenova cells in a way to control the incredible power bound within, but most of them failed and mutated.
Sephiroth took "control" of the cells, and rather than ending up being corrupted by "the Reunion"(the cells trying to reach Jenova's "full form and mind", turning hosts into mindless husks) as most hosts did, he assimilated them and now uses them to manipulate events, even after death.
she saw Tow Mater from Cars saying "he did *what* in his cup?"
I think based on some other trailers we'll get our universe (cloud, tifa, barret etc go out to stop sepharoth) and a Zach timeline (barret, tifa, aerith are dead, Jessi, Biggs and wedge survive, and Zack teams up with them to stop sepharoth). In the end both teams will cross the plot device border to tag team super-seph across all timelines. I like alt timelines as "what ifs?" But when they start to interact I find it to be very dubious territory from a writing perspective. Very few writers are able to deal with concepts like infinity, and paradox effectively.
The Japanese have a habit of making bad Time Travel Plots. FF8 didn’t need it, and look at how goofy and strange that entry is! Same for Final Fantasy 13 and it sequels.
And now FF7 Remake and Rebirth are delving into a some very strange territory now. I mean, there could be very well 2 Sephiroths running about.
I actually would like it if they would do something like this. IF it's well done.. That could be a way how everything can come as it has to come (how she can die and still be in the game somehow for example).
I'm really looking forward to this game and I hope it's as good as FF7 Remake.
No. Zack is dead and at best, a ghost.
@danielramsey6141 nobody ever suggested time travel. Nowhere did they hint that. Maybe multiple universes, but not time travel.
Also hallucinations and visions of the future do not constitute time travel.
@@Callingcascade call it what you will. This sepharoth appears to have experienced events in the future
4:51 its kind of hinted in a few of the later short stories that the reason Sephiroth is so obsessed with Cloud (at least POST advent children as it didn't really seem like he cared that much about him) is that the trauma he inflicted on Cloud, and the impact he has had on Cloud's life and memories is like a BEACON to Sephiroth in the life stream. Since Sephiroth was killed, he can ward off being absorbed by the life stream and can seemingly even travel through it, across space and time, as long as Cloud holds on to the memories of all the awful stuff Sephiroth did (and will do to him, which explains why Sephiroth gives little teases of the bad shit he will do to him), Sephiroth can use that to appear and mess with Cloud to his own end. Its why in Advent Children his phrase "I will never be JUST a memory" seems to indicate that as long as people REMEMBER him, he will keep coming back.
What a surprise! I'm so hyped to watch this. I'm planning on replaying FF7, Crisis Core and Remake before Rebirth next year.
Thanks for the video Jesse!
These are all really great points Jesse, but I’d never even thought of that element in the final battle where Sephiroth is using the Whispers against the party! Very curious to find out what the ultimate intention is here…
Aerith 'living' in the lifestream after her death is an interesting point. Now I wonder if they are going to use that to keep her in the game more afterwards as, I don't know, a guiding force for the remaining party or maybe as just a cheeky ghost. Because they put SO much more character into her in Remake that for that reason more than anything I'm actually really sad to eventually see her go (and despite what some fans are saying there is NO way they will change the story to let her live because as you pointed out her not dying kinda screws up things for everyone else).
there were also short novels written back in the day about Aerith and Sephiroth post FF7. They hide a lot of hints that still make sense with current FF7 content. I recommend watching the Dropped Frames podcast with Strippin and Max, they even read through some of it together to pick out clues.
I loved her so much in the remake! They va's and writers gave her such amazing chemistry with Cloud and Tifa. I don't want her to go TT
Im willing to bet they will pull a ff10 with Aerith. She will stay "alive" till the end of the story where we find out she DID die and she is just there as part of the planet to help everyone out. She will fade away, this will appease both crowds
Nice video!
Just preordered rebirth today can’t wait for it
My theory: The Whispers and the big thing we fight in Remake is basically a Weapon, the planet’s defense mechanism to ensure that any fiddling with timelines doesn’t happen and all events transpire as they need to in order to reach an end that preserves the Planet ( even at the expense of mankind ). Killing it opens up better and worse possibilities for the future, so now it’s Aerith v Sephiroth for directing events instead of the Planet’s will ( aka fate ).
Ultimately, I think we will end up where we did in the original BUT the tension between Aerith and Sephiroth’s manipulations will facilitate changes to aspects of the original story that could use some polish.
For example, I think the big thing in Rebirth is going to be the weird situation between Tifa and Cloud, with Tifa remaining oddly silent during Cloud’s recollection of Nebelheim. Sephy REALLY wants to distance her from Cloud, so he’s going to gaslight Cloud way more in that sense.
One of Aerith's dialogues says that every time she gets in contact with the Whispers, she loses a part of herself.
I think it's all still pretty original canon. Whispers are early manifestation of Weapon (they're the Advent Children villains, yes, but they're also Yellow Diamond, Red Ruby, Green Emerald and Purple Ultima, i.e. the specific Weapons Cloud has to fight), and we're just canonising that Sephiroth's Northern Crater Lifestream Cocoon gives him control of the planet's wider forces. The whispers only affect events that ensure the original game happens - even the ending, which effectively forces the team to leave Midgar for good; as far as Sephiroth is concerned, that's the goal because it means he gets the black materia and summons meteor. Aerith always heard voices, I think we've just levelled up what that means, and factored in some good old fashioned Future Vision to the Ancients' Lifestream Powers that Sephiroth has now hijacked. This could easily all be wrong, but I just don't feel like there's anything that has happened that demands any actual story changes at a macro level.
The rest is all red herrings I think - Zack is probably just in the lifestream, seeing a 'gentle' version based on the real world, but ultimately leading to him having enough Force Ghost-y presence to make his Advent Children cameo make sense (and, realistically, it means the Lifestream sequence in FFR73 would probably involve him helping Cloud unlock his true memories, instead of it being just Tifa and the 'Cloud Brain Ghost'). Establishing this would give Aerith a reason for a physical presence in FF7R3 as well, rather than having an entire 40+ hour RPG where she makes a quick smile-cameo in the ending's final shot. Even Wrong!Stamp indicates that he's in a place that's not quite the real world just as much as it does any timeline change (why would Zack surviving change a dog breed? My initial instinct was honestly just that Current!Stamp is just the latest in a line of mascots after the Ending!Stamp passed away, and it only meant "this is in the past, it isn't the same time as Cloud and the Gang are leaving Midgar).
Biggs? Biggest red herring of all, because I'd be shocked if he survived for any deeper reason than giving the party a reason to care about Fort Condor before the Huge Materia show up. He joins up with Avalanche proper, they're at Fort Condor, now there's a plot hook there other than going "Oh neat, a place with a bird on it, oh well, on to Junon".
The fact that Biggs, Wedge, and Jessie all "died" in a place where they ostensibly should have never been able to survive - yet we know Biggs survived - kinda gives weight to the idea that they're all alive. Also, Jessie's glove at the end seems like a strange addition for someone who would have been obliterated in a collapsing plate. I figure this whole story is going to become as convoluted as humanly possible as time goes on, but in the process they might as well bring back some side characters for fun in the process.
Biggs will probably remain dead in cloud’s timeline. Wedge might appear since it’s unclear what happen to him really. Jessie we know will reappear as a dancer at golden saucer, will most likely have no idea of who cloud etc are.
Biggs is alive in Zack’s timeline while everyone else is dead. Zack, Biggs and Aerith (when she wakes up), will merge with the other where / when the timelines crosses/merges. Thus getting everyone back together.
Cloud 2 (Zack’s timeline), is a tricky one tho what “use” he will have. Mayyybe he will play a part of cloud 1’s subconscious when / if that will be a thing.
@@mrforzum875if i remember right in at least one of the timelines, wedge is absolutely alive. That dude is clearly made of adamantium. Or the whispers just cut the man some slack so his cattos always have a papa
Imagine if they go full Bioshock Infinite with the game. "There is always a lighthouse" situation going on where cloud starts hopping between realities.
Your words kind of made me rethink the "different time line" idea I had been feeding myself since this game released. I kind of got the feeling from this summary that it isn't timelines but the Mako energy from the planet trying to prevent the destruction of itself. Uh, how to think about this hmmm. It is 1 single timeline but instead of single points on 1 timeline, the Planet exists along every point possible. The Planet is simultaneously just born, and also about to be destroyed, along with every meaningful point in time along the 1 single time line. Those more sensitive to Mako seem to have seen flashes of their own journey along the single time. The planet, with it's Mako energy is nudging choices made by our characters, hence the Zack walking around alive with a Cloud and we also still have our Remake's Cloud. Uh, I guess think of it like a snake eating it's own tail. Or like a piece of paper folding over on itself.
there's so many little moments in Remake that make me question things. That first discussion with Sephiroth in Midgar, Clouds perspective is from Nibelheim but Sephiroth talks as if the last time they met was at the end of the OG game. The fact that Aerith uses the same ability on Red to calm him as she used to calm Marlene. The FF7R recap video that square put out recently also confirmed that Sephiroth siphoned the whispers into his sword and now he can use them. It's a very exciting time to be a FF7 fan for sure!
Congratulations on the sponsorship!
Imagine it’s cloud that’s the villain by messing with time to save people and messed everything up
So many mysterious things to uncover
I told my husband what I want for Christmas was rebirth. He said it wasn't out yet. I said.... I mean yelled "REBIRTH. REBIRTH. REBIRTH" nothing is as important as this game. He got the hint so it's being mailed to me ASAP. I can't wait till February 29. Maybe march. As long I will get it I won't divorce. Literally, if it's mentioned, I yell "REBIRTH, REBIRTH, REBIRTH"
LMFAO... "So are we going to see Jessie singing and dancing at the Gold Saucer?" How was TGA Jessie XD?
I think sephiroth hijacked the whisperers with his influence of jenova and the livestream. This only works if he’s from the original timeline
I think maybe Sephrioth has replaced with whispers with his failed clones. Or possibly the new whispers are varients of sephiroth *sort of every person play through is diffrent sephiroth butn"fate" always the same.
Most of the end of this game was me yelling “Marlene what do you knoooooow”
Love you Jessie, but this is some real FF7 Big Brain: Level 1 stuff, lol. Really looking forward to you getting deep into it as Rebirth comes out and we make our way to Part 3!
If you’re interested in really going down the rabbit hole:
Maximillian Dood is a good place to start for pretty realistic informed takes.
Final Fantasy Peasant goes deep into theory crafting based on mythology that is in the bones of FF7 as well as lots of backing from extra FF7 material.
And I’m a big fan of the massive essay videos that Sleepezi has put together. He’s a more recent fan, but goes really deep in finding connective tissue between all the games (and movie).
Im put my money on idea, in og timeline Sephiroth is defeat and returning to the life stream. Somehow he was able find a way to "reverse" the flow. Able to take his conscious to a past self and overridding old sephieroth. Aries also being apart life stream. Basically chased after sepheitoh but not being as strong only been able to give visions to her past self or she did also overide the other aerith and thats why plot ghosts were continually harrasing her cause they try correct it to their version of aerith that was supposed to be their. Possibly she dosnt explain everything to cloud and the gang might be her own personal code, as not to entierly screw up what could happen.v
For the whispers helping Sephiroth. I think it could be that he was not meant to die there. So they helped him so he would not die there. Not going to say more as it would go in to spoilers
I think the worse fate of FF7R trilogy's storyline going forward is that at the FF7R intergrade dlc's ending, we know that Zack opens Aerith's church and he's concerningly faltered at the people crying in the church, with the exact same shot of AC where the children cheers on Cloud's resurrection.
Which indicates us that Sephiroth is changing the destiny of every other character's fate together alive or not.
Meaning that when they're alive like Jesse and Biggs, Cloud would've fight for Zack's legacy in the first place in his memories of his destiny at the end of remake.
7 seconds til the end is the 7 seconds before the meteor impacts the planet. The chapter select info tells you :)
my theory is that the og never actually happened and it was actually the vision of the future that aerith and sephiroth had at the start of remake.
Jesse bout to make me do a chef's kiss 🤌
I think Aerith and Sephiroth's clairvoyant knowledge is definitely related to their existence within the Lifestream, which may be some kind of consciousness beyond time, allowing their past selves to connect to what the Lifestream knows.
What's most interesting to me is that Sephiroth *doesn't really act like a villain.* He's very cryptic and menacing but at the end of the day, he's trying to tell Cloud something. He's trying to push Cloud down a certain path. Long gone is the maniacal, world-ending monster. He's planning something far more complex this time. His behavior far more closely matches the Sephiroth we saw in Advent Children than the one from FFVII.
So broadly speaking, if Sephiroth is using his future knowledge to change events of the original game, then Aerith is attempting to preserve them. Is Aerith right to do that, though? I think Sephiroth knows more than Aerith does.
I'm curious to see what JENOVA's role in this story will be. 'Cause frankly, given that JENOVA's origins are never explained, I think there's a good chance she has something to do with all of this.
I haven't experienced Yuffie's story in Integrade yet, so idk if there's anything revealed there that disproves this, but:
Right now, my main crazy theory on what's happening is that at the end of Remake, Cloud's party ended up swapping to Zach's alternate timeline, and Zach+Cloud (and the others) swapped over to the Remake timeline.
The main reason I feel this way is that the trailers show Zach arriving in Midgar on the same day that a "storm" passed by and destroyed a section of the city, where we see Aerith, Tifa, Barrett, and Red 13 either dead or heavily injured. However, based on the sequence of events, there's no way that A+T+B+R13 should've been together in that side of the city when Zach was on his way to Midgar (which was 3 months prior to the start of FF7). To me, that "storm" that destroyed that section looks more like it was the ending of Remake, the fight against Sephiroth while buildings and crazy shit was being destroyed. I think THAT was the storm that leveled that section of the city.
Here is how I see it: At the end of Remake, Cloud & co. defeat the Whispers and Sephiroth after a storm leveled part of the city. In that moment, Cloud & co. are transported to Zach's world from ~3 months ago (from the end of Crisis Core). Meanwhile, at that same moment, Zach and his Cloud are mysteriously transported to the world of Remake, 3 months into the future. A+T+B+R13 from Zach's world also get transported, but they end up right where our versions of A+T+B+R13 were, in the middle of the storm, and they are severely injured or killed. Zach arrives in a post-Remake setting, and tries to get his bearings while he offloads his Cloud to Kyrie, who looks identical to our Kyrie from Remake. Meanwhile, as our Cloud and co. explore the setting of FF7 Rebirth, they begin to uncover that the world they're in is different from what they remember: maybe they notice they're 3 months in the past, maybe famous logos and iconography is different in this parallel world, they probably encounter Jessie still alive and working at the Golden Saucer (where in this case she never left and never met Barrett and whatnot).
Now, what happens after all this and how these two worlds will recombine? No clue. I have to imagine that the proposed idea of 2 existing Sephiroths in the story (which I believe was outright confirmed by the devs) has to apply somewhere, but we don't have enough info to really grasp at that.
okay so through my playthrough ... some of those cutscenes never happened ... like the one with biggs waking up in the hospital -- i never saw that
Im pretty sure the biggs scene is literally one of the last closing scenes when you defeat sephiroth. It shows biggs waking up, the whole zach bombshell, the party deciding to leave midgar and find sephiroth, etc
I kinda wish "The Unknown Journey" had continued to be that. I don't like the revelation that this will end in such a way that Advent Children is completely canon. Surprise me, dammit!
I always took it that Sephy took control of the Whispers in the final fight - but who knows 😅
If you want an explanation as to how Aerith and Sephiroth seem to know more than they should, seek out and read "On the Way to a Smile - Lifestream Black and Lifestream White". A short story written by Nojima.
Also if you haven't already, go check out Maximilian's FF7R theory/news content. The podcast he was on with ItmeJP and EasyAllies is also good to check out. :)
Ok, so this is ganna be a little lengthy, but Jesse explicitly asked for theories, also I'm going off of my best recollections of the original, remake and advent children (which I have seen/played all of within the last few years).
I think Aerith and Seph both seeing possible/alternate timelines and the original game being one of those timelines is right, there's a line in the remake Aerith says thats something like "I feel like I'm in a maze (or a building like a maze) and I cant always tell which room I'm in." (its the scene where they're in her room in shinra tower) and I remember feeling like it was a really poetic way of someone explaining that they were seeing lots of possible timelines and sometimes getting lost about which one they were in. So I think there are two big underlying revelations:
First, Seph failed BECAUSE he killed Aerith (and maybe other people). If the two of them can be coherent consciousnesses in the lifestream, maybe the lifestream was able to focus enough to stop the meteor because of that. Seph made the classic Vader/Obi-wan mistake, and by striking her down she became more powerful than he could possibly imagine. Hes maybe realized that he'll be stopped by the martyrdom he creates, so he's being more calculated in a way that makes the people trying to stop him think THEY are beating HIM because hes not killing as many people.
Second, if Aerith HAS to die to stop Seph maybe she DOESNT HAVE to stay dead. That 500 year in the future thing always confused me because I remember it being made pretty clear that Red was the last of his species, and he says he had a Mom and a Dad so if they reproduce the way most mammals do (ask your parents if you dont know what I mean) then I dont know where those kids came from. BUT maybe the lifestream IS willing to resurrect people (or from its point of view allow them to leave again), if it stops a species from going extinct. That might explain the epilogue and why Zack is alive. I feel like most of gloss over the fact that we meet Red in that cage with Aerith because Hojo thought he could 'save two endangered species through breeding them' cause it was a little gross (and I did appreciate that in the remake even all the other shinra board members are like, DEEPLY troubled and uncomfortable by this suggestion lol ).
So, the dialog implies two of the last surviving ancients are at odds altering the timeline, I think the epilogue ending in the future shows that the lifestream might be willing to resurrect people to stop a species from becoming extinct, and if Aerith makes it clear in no uncertain terms that the continuation of the Ancients with not occur via Seph, then maybe the Lifestream seems fit to resurrect (or keep alive) the person she actual did love and want to start a family with.
Thank you for coming to me TED talk.
I honestly would love to see you and Maximilian talk about this. Would be interesting to see you guys ping off each other and brainstorm.
Shocking twist: It was Lavos all along.
As long as Aerith doesnt take all my good gear this time Ill be happy
The Whispers always reminded me of the ghosts from the Phantom Train in VI. But I'm sure it's some Lifestream shenanigans.
Some of the Answers you Seek are in Stamp, the Shinra Mascot dog. Stamp will tell you which timeline you’re in. He’s different in the Zack ending and Biggs has the same Stamp. Jesse’s gloves and bandana are also with Biggs hinting she lived in that version as well.
If you watch the Junon segment in the recent Rebirth footage, you can see the beagle version Stamp in the background. Confirming that Cloud and the party are still in the Beagle timeline. I hope to see terrier Stamp and Zack in a video during The Game Awards.
At 1st I didn't know what to think of the whisperers. Then they very last section against harbinger. All I can think of is Kingdom Hearts which I didn't like lol. But I really like the game though. Yuffie dlc was a welcomed addition too
YAY FF jesse Video! i have so many questions but at 10:23 I noticed...does Biggs still have both of his arms?
Speculative Jesse is one of my favorite Jesse’s 👀
My theory is that the remake is a geostigma guilt dream by Cloud in advent children. Basically Aerith and Sephiroth/Jenova fighting in the lifestream but through Cloud, kinda like FF14's dark knight StB quest with Myste. AC specifically talks about memories a lot, and how Cloud having survivor's guilt and impostor syndrome. When Cloud accepts Aerith's death and being Zack's legacy in AC, and by defeating Kadaj Sephiroth, Aerith was able to cure geostigma.
Thanks.
How the hell did I miss this video?!
In my head canon, the whispers can't attack sephiroth because he's a part of the lifestream, and therefore a part of the planet. Our heroes aren't supposed to be where they are at the end of the game and that's why they're freaking out on us in particular. I'm mega-excited for the next chapter and i hope we get to find out more.
Its pretty clear there's 2 sephiroths in the game, the one that attacks shinra is the normal one, and the one thats haunting cload is the one from the original game.
What if Sephiroth isn't talking to Cloud. Could just be using him as a medium to communicate to Aerith?
I loved the video, but they did answer a good bit of your questions in the game. And most definitely the whispers.
Weirdly enough, if we ARE able to save Aerith (ideally having it be a choice that we have to make), I kinda hope that us saving her leads to a World of Ruin postgame. Grim as it sounds, it could lead to a story where those who survived sow the seeds for the future of the Planet, even though most of them (aka everyone but Red XIII) will have died before they see the fruits of their labours.
It'd be a poetic way to show the consequences of our desire-driven actions, and also tie into environmentalist themes like "society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they'll never get to rest under."
I think it should depend on what other choices you end up making. Saving Aerith, but sacrificing someone else further down the line as a consequence, maybe? Loss was a driving element in the story afterall(they all basically lost something before they had even met, with only Cloud and Tifa sharing a connection), so I think in most cases "someone" has to die.
It might even be possible for multiple party members to end up dead(ala Mass Effect) and it might even be possible to save everyone AND get the "good" ending, if you make certain other choices(which might mean sacrificing yourself or something like Midgar or Wutai).
As for the 7 seconds if you watch the original aerith scene..when sephiroth descends upon her, if you count down from the time he drops down to...well. you know. It takes 7 seconds. Or veryyyyyy close to it.
As for aeriths role in all this..i think we as a viewer just DO NOT truly understand powers of the cetra. Theyre cooking up something insane.
asking ALL the real questions
Our exact thoughts. Bring on Rebirth!!
One thing from what people who played in japanese said:
The Sephiroth we meet at the end of the game uses the same pronouns as the pre nibelheim Sephiroth, before all the crazy
He changes the pronouns he uses after that, so maybe we're talking to the Hero Sephiroth at that point
Another time Aerith effects another character is their meeting RedXIII and how calm he becomes after coming into contact with her. This would explain why WEAPONs are explained earlier in the series at Cosmo Canyon instead of "Disk 2"
Honestly the thing I don’t get is that like Wedge is just left so ambiguous aside from it being made so he can’t help. Some think he died some don’t etc… this Jessie thing I something I never heard about but would probably make sense to see a flyer.
Yoshi P has heard Jesse's pleas, and has graciously extended him a sponsorship
Jesse! Reach out to Maximillian Dood! You guys should have him on the geekenders and have a big FF7 discussion. I think you two would have some fascinating ideas and discussions surrounding Rebirth and where everything is going.
Aeris became apart of the lifestream. Which allowed her to travel freely throughout time..?
Same with Sephiroth..?
I always saw the Whispers as metaphorical stand in for the fans. What I mean by this is they are the fans who wanted this remake to be just like the original game in story and tone, similar to how Trials of Mana was just a 3D remake of the SNES version. With that said, even with the whispers being on Sephiroth's side can still make them represent the fans. Fans love Sephiroth. he is memorable and people love him. He is loved the same way The Phantom is loved in Phantom of the Opera. He is every edge lord and goth video game girl's dream guy. This makes the whispers be on his side in a metaphorical sense.
With all of that said I would guess that within the narrative of the story the whispers originally were a defense mechanism of the lifestream to make sure fate goes the way it should but somehow when Sephiroth died and Aerith died and entered the life stream Sephiroth corrupted them. The Sephiroth in the Remake and thus forward is some sort of amalgamation of Sephiroth of this time period and what was in the lifestream. He knows future events. In the same way some whispers may be working with the Aeirth in the lifestream.
Anyways just my thoughts :) I may have spelling errors. I can't remember how to spell the names right now.
Me and friend have spoken about this since it came out and as new theories come out. One is that there are multiple Sephiroths, the one that talks to you is post Advent/in the Lifestream Sephiroth trying to change everything, with the Promised Land theme from Advent Children playing after you meet him the first time and Cloud grabbing his geostigma arm when meeting him with Jenova. All the others are the clones.
The Whispers I've always thought were the Lifestream trying to keep the path as is, Sephiroth merges with them at the end to open that gateway. Aerith says she loses her memory everytime they touch her which adds to who is trying to change the events and who isn't.
Can't believe you didn't mention about how Rufus Shinra can see the Whispers and I think that has something to do with him getting geostigma in Advent Children.
The Seven seconds bit is highly likely to be connected to Aerith, the tune playing is the Forgotten City and the star cloud is shaped like the shell building that is the entrance. Look up the literal Japanese to English translation, it is ever so slightly different with Sephiroth saying the future is up to Cloud among other things. Never mind what the Yuffie DLC brought in too, can't wait for the next part
Rufus also had this line in advent children:
"The Lifestream courses through our planet, back and forth across the borders of life and death. If that cycle is the very truth of life, then history, too, will inevitably repeat itself. So go on, bring your Jenovas and your Sephiroths. It won’t matter. We’ll do as life dictates, and stop you every single time."
That makes me wonder if he also went on to find a way to retain some part of his knowledge throughout the cycle.
That bags of chips in the very end with Zack surviving was also confirmed to be a hint of different timelines.
Aerith and Seph were confirmed to somehow still being alive in the Lifestream (there's also a novel about this).
I said this a couple of years ago already, but my money is on some weird time-shenanigans. Not time-travel, but forcefully getting a second try. And the whispers try to prevent this (note that the Ruby, Emerald, Diamond weapon, etc., are also supposed to be fail-safes from the planet to keep the status quo... for better or worse.)
Aerith can "infuse" people with knowledge about the future, because she has already witnessed all of it. She did it with Cloud, Marlene and Red XIII, and who knows who else. The only thing that's left open on my end is Seph's weird 7-second speech. It almost sounds like there is some sort of common threat for which he needs Cloud's help.
i thought this video would mitigate my need to replay Remake, turns out I'm going to have to play the original, dirge of cerberus, and watch advent children before Rebirth...
How it adds up to me: Defeated Sephiroth, after his defeat in Advent Children, finds a way to go back in time or else communicate with his former self. He is trying to remake the whole FF7 story. Aerith and the planet are aware of this, to a degree. The planet is also a character, as in OG. It sends weapons to stop Sephiroth, and it sends the whispers to keep things on the right track. All the whispers are doing is ensuring keey things from OG happen.
Seph is trying many things to stop OG events. He tries to stop Cloud from meeting Aerith, but whispers hold her, for example. There are other things he does that the whispers fix. Towards the ending of the game Seph is annoyed at whisper meddling and tricks the party into defeating them. His meddling creates 2 timelines, one where Zack lives and a lot of the party dies.
I think thats basically it for part 1. We now know things are messed up and the whispers won't save us anymore. I think Sephiroths new strategy will be to capture or nullify (but NOT KILL!) Aerith, and nullify or kill Cloud. These 2 characters are what defeated his plan in OG. I think seph could nullify Cloud early by speeding up his mental break, then killing the 1 person who can break him out of it; Tifa. We already see the mind games early. If Cloud meets his stolen identity early, that could mess him up too.
but seriously anything can happen now.
Similar to some other people I think the whispers are akin to an immune system defending the body which in this metaphor would be the planet. That’s why when you pass the cross road of destiny I think that’s the moment you step into an alternate timeline, because the whispers go super militant because this is an unprecedented violation of fate. You defeat the whispers but I think this plays into Sephiroths plan as he can now alter fate uninterrupted within that specific timeline. As for the 7 seconds cutscene, I do not think this takes place chronologically immediately after defeating whisper Sephiroth, I think this is a time skip to the true end of the game. The importance of this is unclear though.
Midgar in ruins in the ending doesn’t mean humanity is gone, it just means they quit using mako
It was said by the creator of FF VII, so I think we know exactly what it was.
Also, humanity was not done "destroying the planet". Sure, they extended its life by no longer using Mako, but instead they went on with the "regular" stuff, like oil. So humanity was potentially wiped out by another set of "weapons" at some point.
The zack timeline theory is totally a red herring.
I think clouds buster sword is a Jenova Piece
So it to explain why zack and cloud both have a sword.
Everything else is a psychological thing in clouds head or shinra cover ups.
Nah different timelines or there has to be 2 clouds aswell. As the new trailers have Zack carrying Cloud around
@@TheImronal yeah. Thats cloud before he joins avalanche. They show zack dropping him off to that one girl.
I get it, the timeline stuff is more fun. It's a red herring.
So i never thought Sephiroth as an agent against fate, it seemed ALLLLLL his actions were to ensure things played out according to the divine timeline, which would be Above the Whispers discretion......i guess i jad it wrong
Well, he did kill Barret and started to manipulate Cloud way earlier in the Remake.
He is up to something...
Wow. I can't believe my timing. Vid been out only 15 mins
The whispers are on Sephiroths side.
Lets take a step back. And ask ourselves. "Who won at the end of FFVII:Remake?" If you answer Cloud and party you are wrong.
Sephiroth won. We just did his bidding like good "puppets" that we are.
Whose initial goal was to go against destiny and fate? We went in there killed Whisper Harbinger changing fate... you know like someone who said "lets defy destiny together"
Whispers are there showing you glimpes of the future and RedXIII say "thats a bad thing that will happen in the future" (paraphrasing). I imagine Sephiroth hearing this from the side, rubbing his hands, thinking to himself "yes yes totaly a bad thing... go on continue and kill it"
And the funny thing about it, was that people are onboard with it, not questioning it and rather reaffirm "no we didn't want a 1:1 remake, changing destiny and fate is a good thing"... So basicaly agree with Sephiroths plan?!
Don't tell me that both good (Aerith) and bad guys (Sephiroth) can have the same plan. In this case change destiny. Sephiroth probably had all this planned out, that is why is shown early taunting Cloud in every step he makes. "Come on Cloud, we don't have time to meet later on, hate me from now... Remember Nibleheim? Come after me... yes you want to get to me? Kill that little thing first called Fate to get to me"... And we did...
It plays to the main point of the OG, that Cloud wasn't going after Sephiroth, but rather drawn to him, Jenova cells reunion etc... "Because Clould you are a puppet". This time the players fell for it also.
If that is not the case, then I can consider it one of many plot holes.
Sephiroth says 7 seconds and then later you show a clip of arith saying every second matter every minute man whatever it's kind of I mean I don't know I forget their game cuz it's been so long since I watched you play it what does that feel related he says it's 7 seconds and she sang that basically every moment matters every second matters great thanks a lot Jesse
I'm just pointing out one thing. Rebirth can also mean "Genesis". Make with that information what you will. :D
As a long time fan and theorist, I always thought Sephiroth should have been LESS powerful than Jenova, since he’s human with her cells…so what about Jenovas role in all this? And where did she come from? Are there other entities like her whom could be even stronger??? That could be the potential ‘bigger threat’. Also with Zack surviving, could we see the likes of Angeal and Genesis again?
My first quetion would be have you ever played the OG game ?
Jessie needs to go watch Sleepezi's lore break downs. It will completely change your perspective on the game
I think the most plausible thing so far is both Sephiroth and Aerith are from the original game like a parallel. They know how things will play out and try to change it. It may have happened many times to create all the different FF7 stuff. The whispers only show up in areas where the game differs from the original game too - they seem to be trying to force the planet down a certain path as arbiters of destiny. Sephiroth is shown being able to take control the whispers obviously so he can basically defy destiny. Aerith on the other hand can as well but uses it differently. Cloud starts seeing things, if I remember correctly, after touching Aerith. This would lineup with what happens with her and Marlene in the bar with the idea that she gave Marlene a vision of a future. The differences between Sephiroth and Aerith is Sephiroth obviously wants to end the world and Aerith wants to save it. I think in the next part we're going to get A LOT of differences from the original game like Aerith not dying because she's going to want to change that in hopes it makes a better world if she's still left alive as the last of her race.
Well there is someone save Biggs, Wedge and even Jesse. I think they are alive. It's impossible and absurd how Wedge die 😆. Check Jessie's gloves on the table maybe means she went to GOLDEN SAUCER after all.
What if Jenova was in fact the big bad all along? Original Sephiroth never overpowered Jenova but was slowly consumed by it appearing insane when in fact no longer Sephiroth. So now in the remake we have Jenova-sephiroth trying to consume the planet well using all the clones and real sephiroth who was absorbed by the lifestream which freed him since Jenova cannot be absorbed.
Jenova is still present after original FF7 as seen in advent children which could mean the 500 year future Jenova has consumed all human life. If the lifestream exists outside the normal flow of time, then both Sephiroth and Aerith could also be less impacted by time since they were able to keep their individuality after entering the lifestream. In order to save the planet, both are trying to push the events in remake to serve their idea of saving the planet using the most influential point in the past.
points at every Maximillion FF7 video over the last few monthy/years.
I really feel like FFVIIR is pulling a bit of a Marvel thing. Aerith and Sephiroth are both Nexus beings, similar to the Scarlett Witch, least in the comics. They also are the embodiment of Holy and Meteor. Sephiroth is trying to alter this timeline, and Aeirth is trying to preserve it, even if it does mean her death, yet again. The Whispers are also trying to keep the timeline intact, but we now have 2 alternate timelines. I wouldn't be surprised in Zack's timeline we'll have a party of Jesse, Biggs, and Wedge.
I think Sepheroth somehow turned back time to "reset" and give himself a better ending? Aerith lives sort of "outside" this and she knows WAY more, maybe even all of it?
The Whispers are sort of on Sephiroth's side because they're like the anti-lifestream. They are like planetary grim reapers who ensure that the cosmos will inevitably come to an end. They're not good like Aerith or evil like Sephiroth though, because death is not necessarily evil, but just an essential part of life. I think perhaps Jenova is an organism born of this anti-lifestream, and that's why her cells destroy and decay life. The developers have said that Sephiroth is the main bad guy of FFVII, the ultimate villain, not Jenova. This isn't a Vader/Palpatine situation. Sephiroth is the great evil. I think for this reason, Jenova just represents death, whereas Sephiroth represents the opposite of that, he represents nihilism, purposelessness etc. There is meaning and dignity in death, but there is no meaning in Sephiroth's existence.
Just like individuals live and die and return to the lifestream, each planet and its lifestream is its own individual superorganism, which also shall die and return to a cosmic lifestream where the cosmos is reborn. And Jenova as a force is a part of that process, likely accelerated by the decay of humanity using mako energy and unethical science. That's what you're seeing at the Edge of Creation. You see one nebula in a state of death, and another in a state of Rebirth, hence the title of this new game.
Sephiroth wants to prevent this from happening because he refuses to die. The ending where you see Red XIII's descendants howling, is an ending where Sephiroth no longer exists, where death has come for humanity, but life goes on in a new cycle. Sephiroth needs Cloud's help in order to break that cycle and cheat death.
The big evil of the game, represented by Shinra and Sephiroth, is an upsetting of the balance of nature. Sephiroth corrupted the lifestream, and now he is also corrupting the "deathstream" or the whispers etc. He wants to corrupt life, and he wants to conquer death.
Inevitably, he will fail. I think an interesting thing about Sephiroth is that he finally dies for good in Advent Children, but he doesn't return to the lifestream. He says he will never become a memory, like Aerith and Zack have. And then the geostima hurting the lifestream subsides finally, not because Jenova has been defeated, but rather because Sephiroth has. Souls like Kadaj can rediscover their humanity and be accepted into the lifestream.
I think ultimately, OG FFVII is about Sephiroth screwing with the lifestream. But the Remake, is about what happens when Sephiroth starts also screwing with the black lifestream (the whispers.) Btw these are the same whispers you see in the battle of Advent Children when Midgar turns dark. So the idea of a black lifestream or an anti-lifestream has been around since the mid 2000s.
The main theme of FFVII is that death is not the end. Your legacy lives on and your life created memories in the minds of others. So in order to make the most of life, you have to accept the inevitability of death, and embrace your dreams, rather than spend all your time trying to stop the inevitability of your nightmares. Aerith's sacrifice represents this with her death. And Sephiroth's perpetual existence and tormenting of Cloud represents the antithesis of that. And this theme will not be forgotten in Rebirth, they're going to double down on it, hard. Any magical reunion between Zack and Aerith where they live forever happily ever after is well and truly not in the cards. They'll return to the lifestream by the end of the ReTrilogy.
I think after the original ff7 and advent children, someone turned back time to the start of ff7r but the spirits in the lifestream still remember all the events.
I think the whispers are the deceased numbered clones and they try to keep the story on the 'correct' path for sephiroth. I do think the whispers are not on our side.
And Aerith can commune with the lifestream which is why she knows or has be told rather what happens or 'should' happen in the future. That could also be sephiroth giving bad information or someone else.
I could see the 7 seconds thing being before the world reset to ff7r as meteor was falling someone had 7 seconds to make a decision and that decision was to reset to ff7r to buy time etc.
Also aerith knew Marlene's name before tifa told her
I just pre-ordered rebirth and dragons's Dogma 2 i have a feeling dragon age dreadwolf will be released towards the fall or winter next year
Did jesse ever do the Yuffie dlc? need to see that!!
I think that Sephiroth isn't actually in FF7 Remake at all. It is something else stealing his image from Cloud's memories. Most likely created by the Whispers themselves to give him a target to chase.
I have my thoughts... They not kill in rebirth but they move to last game, to the last moment and also kill another character from another timeline too
I have a few more questions like could separoth be an ancient that why he is able to come back from the life steam and the final battle was that really him or the whispers discussed as him and also the 7 sec at the end is that maybe the final battle at the end of ff7 where you face him alone. So many questions and yet so few answers