Why do the Supremacy's Shots Arc? | Star Wars: The Last Jedi Lore
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- Опубликовано: 5 апр 2018
- We take a look at Supreme Leader Snoke's Mega Star Destroyer - the Supremacy - and why its turbolasers acted funny in Star Wars: The Last Jedi,
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I was gonna say the same thing
Hey EckhartsLadder you should do a video on the Flood in Halo Vs Necromprphs from Dead Space as they have alot of similarities in that their purpose is too consume all life in the Universe.
EckhartsLadder just lazy ideas bro these guys were trying way to much and nothing makes actual sence.
Jiralhanae vs Krogan
Krogan vs Brutes [11th ask]
"That's not how space works"
There is no arc . The ships were accelerating and the camera follows the ships path, not the path of the projectile.
Tyler Matthew Harris that was just a reference to Han Solo's "that's not how the force works"
I know i laughed. I still figured you were half serious though.
Tyler Matthew Harris
Interesting idea. relative motion could lead the projectiles to appear to arc, but...
The projectiles _themselves_ appear to curve (not just their trajectories) when these leading shots would have them at a constant diagonal. Also, at 2:04 you can clearly see one of the lasers going 'up' while the Raddus is 'below' the Supremacy, so this shot would never hit. Besides, guns on the Supremacy's topside are firing, and elevated rather than flush against the hull, so they would similarly miss.
Very strong, shipboard gravity, you mean?
Is this video also about how the Supremacy is one of the largest and greatest restaurants?
Hi
I r cool
George Lucas yup
How many fighters it carried
Never mind that. How many soup tureens did it have?
Just had a thought.
What if they arced to allow them to hit targets behind other, potentially bigger, vessels?
With the self-generated magnetic arc idea, this would make sense.
Or they’re just proton torpedoes. Look at the shape. That’s not what a turbolaser shot looks like.
@@caesarspeaks proton torpedoes aren't nearly as fast as what's shown. Lasers are faster
copium
Even if they were projectiles they would go perfectly straight forever.
Turbolaser would fizzle out eventually.
That's not how space works
@@bronkolie If your comment was in regards to mine, space has nothing to do with it.
@@helikos1 I mean that not how orbital mechanics work. It wouldn't go straight forever, not even relative to the ship
@@bronkolie Fair one mate
They used plasma catapults to arc the shots
* nods head*
plasma doesnt explain why it arcs, does explain why it is a bolt, takes so long to reach its target, has a limited range in space, and why we can see it travel through space.
I am still trying to figure out why the support ships instantly lost speed and direction once they ran out of fuel.
Scott Murphy I think EckhartsLadder should do a video on the Flood in Halo Vs Necromprphs from Dead Space as they have alot of similarities in that their purpose is too consume all life in the Universe.
it didnt lose speed, just looked like it lost speed because the other ships were accelerating ahead. and just like jets when you run out of fuel you loss the engines one by one, not all at once. and without fuel for the thrusters to correct the uneven thrust they lose control
That would require gravity
Why do the Supremacy's Shots Arc?
Because Snoke didn't have the budget for the Death Star Mk.4
Nameless One That doesn’t even make sense.
neither does anything else in the new star wars.
Nameless One That isn’t the point though.
-le sigh- a joke that isn't understood as a joke is a failure.
Nameless One you need to work on your jokes.
"Doesn't seem consistent with the rest of the media" is an accurate description of TLJ as a whole.
WorldsWithin true but than the only long range shot we have seen within the media (at least in the regards to being in space) was the death star's super laser. Every other battle we have seen has had the capital ships fairly close to each other
A. What’s wrong with taking it in a new direction in some points? I feel like a lot of the themes were similar but the plot was different, but what’s wrong with the plot being different? Everyone complained that TFA was too similar. B. The shots do look like projectiles. There’s a big bulb with a tail behind it, not anything like any turbolaser shot I’ve ever seen.
@@caesarspeaks but it's still in space, projectile or not it should still travel in a straight line. There's no reason for it to arc in space.
@@caesarspeaks simple solution: don't call it a turbolaser. if you want to invent a super cool space weapon for star wars that arcs and has a comet tail, great! do it! but you can't call it a turbo laser, because there already IS a turbolaser. the audience knows what it is, and what it looks like. So making something different, and then calling it "also a turbolaser" is ridiculous. Just say they invented a new weapon and give it a new name, problem solved. Originality is apparently dead
then again, coming from the company making Frozen 2, Toy Story 4, Star Wars 9, (ad infinitum ad absurdum) it should come as no surprise that there's no originality. recycling old ideas is apparently all current Disney is good for
honestly describes the sequel trilogy on the 'trying too hard to be like the ot, but also trying to hard to be its own thing' at least that's what I got. as for why the shot arcing, even if its a projectile, doesn't make sense is, well, look to mass effect 2, where one character literally quotes one of Newton's Laws, sure its in a different sci fi universe, but wouldn't it still count as the laws of the universe irl also apply in fiction, whether sci fi or otherwise. and here it is in all its glory;
Gunnery Chief:
This, recruits, is a 20-kilo ferrous slug. Feel the weight. Every five seconds, the main gun of an Everest-class dreadnought accelerates one to 1.3 percent of light speed. It impacts with the force of a 38-kiloton bomb. That is three times the yield of the city-buster dropped on Hiroshima back on Earth. That means Sir Isaac Newton is the deadliest son-of-a-bitch in space. Now! Serviceman Burnside! What is Newton's First Law?
Serviceman Burnside:
Sir! An object in motion stays in motion, sir!
Gunnery Chief:
No credit for partial answers, maggot!
Serviceman Burnside:
Sir! Unless acted on by an outside force, sir!
Gunnery Chief:
Damn straight! I dare to assume you ignorant jackasses know that space is empty. Once you fire this hunk of metal, it keeps going till it hits something. That can be a ship, or the planet behind that ship. It might go off into deep space and hit somebody else in ten thousand years. If you pull the trigger on this, you are ruining someone's day, somewhere and sometime. That is why you check your damn targets! That is why you wait for the computer to give you a damn firing solution! That is why, Serviceman Chung, we do not "eyeball it!" This is a weapon of mass destruction. You are not a cowboy shooting from the hip!
Serviceman Chung:
Sir, yes sir!
Title of the Video: Why do the Supremacy's shots arc?
All Possible Answers:
1) Bad writing.
2) Forgetting how a near-vacuum works.
3) Forgetting how energy weapons work.
4) Not giving a shit.
5) Bad writing.
People complaining about arcing shots which made the ship look more awesome, they never consider the whole *_clears throat_* space aerodynamics, laser swords, hand lighting, the force, and planet destroying lasers.. Its Star Wars people, get a grip and enjoy the dang movies
So you think that they managed to make something like Covenant plasma torpedoes.
Exactly what I thought of when I first watched TLJ
Why even need a turret and movable barrel then? And why would they need to point the barrel upwards, like they were firing solid projectiles on a plane's surface?
Limited control? So the shot can only correct or change a small amount.
Maybe, but then it would make sense to fire in as much of a straight line as possible to the target. It would be completely pointless to point the gun upwards. Just fire in a forward facing angle and bend the shot downward over the bow. The guns had a clear field of fire after all.
He said projectile in the context of something inside with the means to alter it's flight path.
Why do the ships stop moving when they run out of fuel
It's space so they should just keep moving when they run out of fuel
Micah M yeah, but not nearly as much as having the engines on full blast does
ASHMEy YT the only way I can see the ships slowing down is if the supremacy and its fleet are accelerating faster than the ships that ran out of fuel.
cause they don't stop, they'll just be out accelerated and caught up to by the big ship
Because thats not how the it works in the star wars universe..... I mean if physics worked the same in the star wars universe as our s than the ships would need huge thrusters on the front of the ship as well as the back.
Don't make excuses for Rhian Johnson
The only reason is the director doesent know how space works ... Aka what is vacuum and 1942 bombers in space. All were superbly stupid.
It gets worse. B-17 are from 1936, not 1942. That's pre-WW2 technology... even in real world, this design has been obsolete for years now
funkyromero if you think ANY Star Wars movie knows how space works, then you clearly don't know how space actually works.
There is a difference between bending the laws of physics and outright ignoring them.
PetersaberHD it's a bloody movie. I watch Star Wars for entertainment, not scientific accuracy.
funkyromero my man the bombs are magnetic
Are we all forgetting how the Death Star has 8 laser beams than turn 30-45 degrees in a single point of empty space.
The most underrated comment!
Magnetic fields do have an effect on plasma. They could be arcing through magnetic fields that are projected from the supremacy to guide the shot maybe?
TheMasterCheese. Most likely, and linking it to established lore the same mist have been used for both deathstars to colminate the superlaser beams into a single larger beam. In the past people thought it was possible there was an unseen device at the intersection point but that would have been a pretty tempting target I should think.
TheMasterCheese
That would make sense and be cool.
There is no arc . The ships were accelerating and the camera follows the ships path, not the path of the projectile.
Tyler Matthew Harris How is that supposed to make something going in a straight line appear to curve? You could even see that the canons were elevated above the target to compensate. They are definitely arcing.
The whole accelerating excuse for the stupid plot point is just as stupid as arcing energy weapons when there's clearly nothing there to arc them. If we're really gonna pull the same nonsense as Starkiller Base's magic hyperspace seeker cluster death ray, then I say we abandon all pretenses of believability and go full mecha anime sci fantasy.
I imagine half the comments are along the lines of "Because Rian Johnson hates Star Wars".
Well it’s true.
Ben DarthDakka you win jew of the week
Joseph Simpson Because Rian Johnson hates Star Wars
+ Joseph Simpson I know. Pretty sad.
Joseph Simpson i dont care if he hates star wars, but that its just a stupid choice.
Writing going a LITTLE overboard with the historic warfare motifs common in Star Wars.
"A little". Those bombers are designed based on B-17 bomber, which was made in 1936... and that design is obsolete even by today's standards.
Actually another problem with this movie is the conservation of fuel. Because if they just give the ship a little bit more thrust then cut off the power it would have coast to the planet.
Hi you’re probably going to comment; then how come the first order didn’t speed up when the resistance was running out of fuel.
And you are right asking that question why didn’t they do it. No one knows
@@xaviersaavedra7442 the reason deep space is 'out of range' for a fighter and not a frigate is because frigates don't need fuel. In most super-advanced sci fi (like Star Wars or Homeworld) even if the fighters still run on fuel, the capital ships are running on a form of fusion that can literally sustain itself on the atoms in surrounding space. They can go on indefinitely with no additional refueling stops. Little fighters don't have the space for these reactors, and need to use more conventional fuel, hence their short range. Introducing the concept of capital ship fuel at the same time as it becomes an essential plot device was a terrible move. And made for a boring stalemate. Slowest chase movie ever, what a snooze
The irony of having a star trek ad before this is IRONIC.
Say that in a Palpatine voice
They arc because Rian Johnson forgot how space works..
could be angles
Star Wars, in general, forgets how space works. Star Wars physics have never been even close to real physics. I don't see anyone complaining about the physics of light sabers.
rian johnson even forget how starwars works so ...
Following Abrams' example.
I guess George Lucas also forgot how space works since there's no sound in space so you would never hear TIE fighter noises etc
The writers just genuinely don't care about there being a reason anymore. They're writing stories for the masses; if it looks cool then go with it. And it really pisses me off.
Shogun they're not writing stories for the masses. They're writing stories for their perception of the masses.
Herman Cillo Yes, that's what I intended to say, rather.
Shogun I mean that's what George Lucas did with the originals you just don't like the direction these ones are going and that's fine you can have that opinion I personally love the new movies the subtle mix of realism added in as well as new and varied weapons/ships is what I love
same with SW7 Starkiller base shot being seem across the galaxy as if it was a neighboring planet.
fan·ta·sy
ˈfan(t)əsē
noun
1.
the faculty or activity of imagining things, especially things that are impossible or improbable.
"his research had moved into the realm of fantasy"
Sorry you hate fun, but this is Star Wars, it's not made to make sense, it never was
@EckhartsLadder Sorry, magnetism doesn’t work. The farther away you remove a magnetic source, the weaker the magnetic attraction. You can see this with simple refrigerator magnets. I am so HAPPY you noted that turbo ‘lasers’ are not lasers, but rather Plasma based weapons. I think we exchanged a while back about that. Having said that, neither magnetism nor the gravity of anything smaller than a moon would upset its trajectory, that is unless you change the substrate, but this all vacuum of space. The plausible reason, that follows the laws of physics, as we know them, is some kind of guided projectile. The simply is no other force strong enough in the area of the battle that could possible effect the trajectory of any energy based weapon. The whole running out of fuel thing is Rian Johnson Bullshit any way. The underlying circumstances as improbable as this has NEVER been part of StR Wars Lore. Curving energy in open space is simple implausible, though I would probably be able to do some calculations that prove it impossible. It would take at least a month though. Trying to gauge all the measurements probably being the most difficult part. Great episode though!! Just between you and I, you a good revenue stream. Your is too good, well thought out and presented not to be subsidized in an ongoing, reliable way. Maybe Patreon?
Great comment on physics and projectiles. For your other point:
Patreon is helpful for those who have the extra cash (www.patreon.com/eckhartsladder), but as long as you guys keep watching I'll be fine!
Bruno Martinez r/iamverysmart
Bruno Martinez could it not be a different ammo possible like a mortar ammo that's what the batteries outside the hanger look like? Thoughts
This is a pretty flimsy theory, but if a guiding laser was directed at the plasma bolt and caused a sufficient conversion to matter it might be able to cause a deviation in trajectory. Or it could use w/e lightsabers use in a different form.(also a ship sized lightsaber should be a thing).
Potential purpose of this exsisting besides improved accuracy can be greater firing arcs of weapons. Would be great if that topside cannon could cover the bottom no?
Additionally I still prefer the magnetisn reason, while we don't have a meaningful mathematic base for it to work, this is science fiction. It pushes concepts into new and interesting ways.
That being said I think it was lazy writing that brought us this gem.
Bruno Martinez i want to be a physicist when I am older and I agree with you
After re-watching the scenes where the heavy turbolasers are shown, it appears that they can not rotate horizontally, yet we clearly see the shots arcing towards the Raddus at an angle. This means that not only are the lasers arcing vertically mid-flight, but also horizontally. The only explanations I can think of for this is either the First Order has insane technology which allows it to completely change the direction of MASSIVE turbolaser shots, something that has never been seen before in canon, or this wasn't very well thought out and is canonically broken.
Just to look cool. No need for a complicated answer. Star Wars and physics haven’t exactly been the best of friends.
Ironically, Because Science notes that The Last Jedi got a lot of physics RIGHT: m.ruclips.net/video/CPTIjLPPdIM/видео.html
Well after 3 years I came to a conclusion, that system works as a Javelin missile. Javelins are known as missiles of shot and forget, this easily consists on you put the objective and then the missile is shot, towards the sky, and then it falls above its target, so this "turbolasers" could use something similar because they're created as a ground bombing system for example, so for being able to be used in Space they need this system because there's no gravity in Space so they need another way to be able to use this powerful turbolasers
Yeah except it shoots dumb beams of energy without any guidance system
>>Well after 3 years I came to a conclusion, that system works as a Javelin missile
NO, the movies after Lucas are just shitty, and everything in them is shitty.
Main character, secondary characters, plot, space battles, lightsaber fights - everything is just off.
@@beepboop8184 the only thing good about the new films were the special effects. That's all
@@hashteraksgage3281I mean like it still can be some kind of guided round surrounded by plasma.
Canonically the AT-TE fires actual shells despite them just looking like normal blaster bolts
@@beepboop8184 Lil bro won't even entertain hypotheses because he's so salty 💀
"some sort of technology that we aren't familiar with"
Like everything in the fucking movie?
Why did that resistance support ship stop in the middle of space when it ran out of fuel even though it’s in the middle of space with no resistance and it would’ve kept moving??
the real question is why the fuck did it start to turn up and to the side when it ran out of fuel?
the ship is in space, there's no resistance, there's literaly nothing stopping it from just keeping on its merry way in that direction
Tractor beams were pulling the whole fleet back. Also laser arc could be because the ships were accelerating and the virtual camera was locked to the ships movement.
I think the real world answer is lazyness but those are my fix-it answers.
The ships were constantly accelerating, when the resistance ships ran out of fuel, they stopped accelerating and remained at the speed they were at, whilst the First Order ships and other Resistance ships kept speeding up. So while it was awkward that the ships began listing and tumbling, there slowing down was actually just everyone else continuing to speed up.
"Tractor beams were pulling the whole fleet back" bullshit. We don't do fanfiction, mate.
I would really like to see more episodes like this, like “Why don’t orbital physics affect starships” and “How does sound in Star Wars travel through space”. I love all of your videos, I think they are cool and I love them. Your channel is pretty much the only channel I watch on RUclips. I take most of my Star Wars inspiration from you channel. Thank you for making your awesome videos.
My first thought was enhanced targeting somehow, especially since those are clearly anti-capital ship weapons and they can somehow pinpoint target small transports, sure they aren't the most agile, but its pretty hard to hit a comparably small and far away target.
Why did the first order build a giant ship? and also why did they only fire from one turbo laser and why doing the intro scene why did the other resurgent class battle cruisers not launch tie fighters to help the droughnaght(sorry for bad spelling)? And great/awesome video.
The Supremacy is a mobile base/living area for the First Order, whose leader Snoke didn't want to be tied down to an immobile planet.
Because every large group of bad guys has to have a big, intimidating, scary machine they take with them almost everywhere.
I love the supremacy. It's design is fresh and new to star destroyers and it's just so massive and sleek and beautiful.
And its even wider than kylo 😍
Is there a logical reason? No.
Joseva Turner they look a lot like projectiles. There’s a big bulb with a meteor tail behind it, kinda like what proton torpedoes looked like.
When will sci-fi directors learn that real physics looks cooler than movie physics?
Thomas Divelbiss
It does!
Not always, can feel more believable sure but its not necessarily the most epic.
no, they dont.
There cant be explosions or fire on space so it wont be as cool during battles.
You know how star fighters would look then?
I kinda like the visual perspective explanation
how else would one project 3D flight path of a laser on a 2D platform of a screen..
The only way I️t would really do that is through the distortion of the shield, or if there were some large gravity field (relativity). I’m going with the guidance explanation
Not at all. The 3D path on a 2D platform is the perfect explanation. With the way it is filmed it appears as both ships are traveling in a straight line, though if there is a curved path even if both ships are are on the same curve then the attacking ship needs to fire ahead of their target to strike. Without a stationary point of reference this then makes the shot appear to curve. The only question here is if the distance + relative speeds are enough to make that much of a curve.
cause style over substance. this is also why Eddie Hitler is in it.
Eddie from Bottom?
I'm confused.
Seeing Eddie was my favourite part of the film. I didn't know he was in it
jokingly "ah any relation?"
Eddie "yes actually"
"Why do the Supremacy's Shots Arc?"
For the same reason the rebels drop bombs downward in space. Because the Last Jedi was made by people who didn't care.
The rebels drop bombs downward in space because they were magnetically guided. This is explained.
ruclips.net/video/VT8Lvzfz7iw/видео.html
@@Phobos_Anomaly I don't care how they got the bombs to fall downwards. The problem is it's nonsensical to bomb ships from above in space in the first place.
Tie bombers do this in The Empire Strikes Back. I guess they just didn't care either? lol
Awesome video, I need more of your content!!!
Hey Eck, not really a theory but just a though: Why are they called LASERS in the Star Wars universe?
In our universe, laser is actually an acronym (Light Amplification through Stimulated Emission of Radiation). Could it be that laser is a different acronym in Star Wars?
They are some kind of massless energy weapons. But that doesn't really explain you question. Maybe they were developed from lasers and the name simply stuck?
They're called lasers because that's all Lucas knew about. It's what nearly every other scifi franchise was using, excluding Star Trek. The whole gas powered thing is entirely EU. And since Disney has pretty much given the EU the finger, there's nothing currently in canon that I know of that explains how they work.
Because the plasma is created by firing a laser through a gas, you could also just use fucking google and look at the wiki.
onlypeaceindeath
Canonically, they fire plasma, which is not massless, although it wouldn't require a lot of mass to do damage.
Justin, they're clearly massless in the movies. They ignore gravity and air resistance. They don't lose velocity either. They can't be plasma. Besides, plasma weapons are known as Ion Weapons in Star Wars. Blasters are something else.
Please do this video
Space Battleship Yamato vs Super Star Destroyer Eclipse
Eclipse would win by a fuck ton my dude. Yamato has no shielding and it could get disintegrated by the main laser
It had wave motion shield
or, like, anything with the Yamato. please?
gTrotter If we go by the original series, it has the reflecting shield used in one episode and was never mentioned again. The thing reflected a freaking Dessler Cannon.
Mr.Snapple Eclipse wins...
I have a good idea for a future video.
How would Starkiller Base stand a chance against the Harvester Mothership (ID Resurgence)?
Thanks for making this video. These scenes, though stunningly awesome, bugged the heck out of me.
This bothered me so much
The Joker...... Yes, because it is not like nearly every single sci-fi movie has sound in space.... oh, oh dear.... that is embarrassing. As for the aerodynamic ships, what is wrong with that? You do realize that most of the ships fly in a vacuum as well as atmosphere right? Moron.
catmani2 wow salt much. If you want physics to be in Star Wars, you a the moron.
WarheaddVids..... It seems you mistook what I said. I was replying to The Jokers comment that it doesn't matter that there is "sound in space" and there is a purpose for the ships to be aerodynamic.
I have THE explanation for arching shots... Poor writing.
Im Batman How in the hell something concerning the VISUAL CHARACTERIZATION of a sci-fi weapon should depend on WRITING?
Because Batman is the greatest screenwriter of all time, and has infinite insight into the filmmaking process! /s
I don’t think you know what writing is. This is a visual thing and it looks badass.
TheBillyDWilliams thank you.
Super Fry Yes it is partially a visual thing, however when Fin is written to still be a coward after destroying starkiller base, when all the characters are written to be retarded because nobody knows how to communicate a plan to anybody, when 30 minutes of some stupid casino planet is written into the stroy, when purple hair lady decides ten minutes after shuttles are being blown up to fly into the supremacy, when a romance between rose and fin pops up that nobody wants and when Luke just dies because... "Force exhaustion" then I am going to complain about weaponry of any kind arching in space to hit a target.
Great analysis and solid hypothesis! Btw, the ROTJ shot you edited in at 4:33 blew my mind. I've seen Jedi at least two dozen times, but I never noticed the glossy black droid on the Super Star Destroyer bridge, in the lower left crew pit. Wookiepedia says it's a V-series supervisor droid, similar to the EV-series (IE: EV-9D9). For some reason listening to you talk made me notice it for the first time, after decades of watching the film and even freezing frames on VHS as a kid. :O
Because Rian Johnson did not know how to insert drama into the scene other than having a weapon with an arc and therefore a limited firing range; otherwise, if it fired straight forward it would have unlimited range and just continue going until it hit something or some outside force acted upon it. So it made the scene more "dramatic"(AKA terrible) as the rebels were forced to burn fuel to stay out of range when they actually could have just reached their top speed and cut their engines, allowing physics to keep them going through frictionless space at their top speed. But, according to Rian Johnson there is some magical current running through space that will cause your ship to slow down and start tumbling if you run out of fuel instead of your ship continuing to move forward at a fixed rate due to, you know, physics.
TiitanKun lasers have always had a limited range. Sub-zero space vs super hot plasma space wins.
This real chase would have probably been done with hundreds, thousands, or tens of thousands of kilometers separating the two ships, too. They wouldn't have even been able to see each other visually.
Can we get a fleet vs fleet or some more ship vs ships?
Nate Is Cool amen
Love the supremacy! And i’ve asked this for a few times, and I would like to see the supremacy ⃣VS 2 or 3 viscount star defenders! Pls do it
3:08 yaaaay a good star wars film
actually your timestamp starts JUST before the revenge of the sith scene, so your timestamp is in TLJ, meaning you enjoyed the film, along with the normal star wars fans, good job! :)
To be honest, when I saw this scene, my imerssion was shatterd (for a minute).
Let me think. If their technology is truly this advanced, playing off the magnetism idea. If the material superheated into a plasma state wa somehow an element that is magnetic, it might not have lost its properties when transformed into plasma, hense the arc. Thus is also believable because if you analyze the scene, almost none if the shots miss, even though there was probably some fair distance between them, and let's be honest, stormtroopers were operating these things, they don't exactly have the best aim. I it were superheated iron, per say, this would cause magnetic attraction. I'm not sure how the cruiser's shield worked, but that may have played a part in the magnetism as well. Like so he can see
Masta Blasta plasma conducts electricity so the plasma drop would become an induced magnete when in a magnetic field.
gavin kemp Oh ok thanks for the tip, due to my ignorance on the topic i have to ask, does this support or rebut my idea?
I hope the stormtrooper part was a joke. The inner star wars basement dweller in me is triggered.
HomieClawz oh it was, that was purely satirical.
storm troopers having bad aim is a stereotype. Remember, these are the same guys that stormed a rebel frigate, shot up the majority of its defenders and captured it in like five minutes flat with minimal casualties.
Like many things in Last Jedi, it was clearly done with style in mind without any thought for sense or lore. There are those who can accept this and those who can't, anything else is just an excuse that you are making for Disney.
*the salt is strong with this one*
Denazon
Even more so, Star Wars has always been style over substance. Heck, most of the 'lore' people fap to is just commissioned fan fiction. The original trilogy does stuff because George thought it looked or sounded cool, with zero thought to any such 'lore'. People just need to except that Star Wars is a mess: a fun mess, but a mess nonetheless.
No, that's fucking stupid. Like he said, you're literally just apologizing for Disney at this point Monk B.
The Hoers Corral people are very eager to write the story for Rian Johnson. All their excuses and theories exist purely in their heads. Nothing in the movie actually supports their arguments. If you were to press Rian on this point he'd eventually admit that arcing shots just looked cool.
The cannon could output at differential rates, for instance if this cannon is in fact several small cannons which join charges, some could travel just a little faster to create an arc, so if the top cannon fire 0.1% faster and the lower at normal it could induce an arc. This would be really interesting as it would allow a larger area where it could hit.
Is it possible because the ships have atificial gravity the weight of the cannons slightly warp it so that it actually fires at a slight angle within the cannon and it carries that arc over
Bothered me. No reason for those shots too arc other than the people making the film didn't know what they're doing and it was just another addition to a long list that had me shaking my head throughout this film.
Yeah there is no arc . The ships were accelerating and the camera follows the ships path, not the path of the projectile.
Tyler Matthew Harris that's just defending the poorly made movie, they arc regardless, none of the other movies had arcing lasers due to the camera angle.
Yes but one movie had proton torpedoes that magically turned 90 degrees right on the dime
Todd S. "Use the force Luke" ring a bell? Other ships made the same attack and missed, but the Jedi's was the only one to make the shot. Plus magnetic fields we're a factor as well "we're passing through the magnetic field"
Todd S. Wouldn't call it magic considering we have missiles that fly above their target before immediately angling downwards so that they hit top of their target.
Can you please do why the resistance didn’t take the u 55 orbital load lifters to rebuild the fleet
how would they get them out of the mines?
Given how accurate they were at such ranges, I am going to go with the arcing as part of the guidence system. This is further shown with how they were able to so accurately target the very small transport ships, despite whatever steath they had to help hide them.
My theory: Turbolasers are not just hot gases flying through space, they are hot gases contained within an electromagnetic field. When the bolts contact a shield or ship hull, the field dissolves and the hot gases expand in an explosive way. This explains the arbitrary range (the field will eventually destabilize due to interstellar dust impacts), but this can also be used to *bank shots*.
Basically, I think the First Order has devised a targeting computer which can calculate exactly how to pre-weaken parts of the turbolaser magnetic field, so that a bolt will vent gases in one direction as it travels. This lowers overall range and explosive yield, but the directional venting of plasma causes the bolt to arc through space (technically, it's thrusting onto a new vector). The lower range and yield are irrelevant, because the initial bolt is so massive that it already has tremendous range and yield.
Now, why arc the shots? Because these "Heavy Turbolasers" are all on fairly immobile mountings, and all positioned on the top of the ship. Arcing shots gives them a much wider targeting area, and perhaps the mechanism which sets up a bank shot can move faster than repositioning the entire massive gun (or repositioning the Supremacy itself, for that matter).
In this theory, we only see them arc "down" because the Supremacy is flying above the Raddus. Thus, shots will travel in a downward angle due to simple positioning. But in other situations, the shots could presumably be banked at all kinds of angles. The ability to bank shots to hit side shields/armor is also good, to avoid maximum rear shielded targets.
@EchkhartsLadder From the lore you know I want to know what you can say about this: Can you really even Hyper Drive ram into another vessel in Star Wars? Because I was under the impression that using the Hyper Drive to enter Hyper Space took you out of normal space altogether to get around the light speed infinite mass problem. Also when ships leave it they seem to be at a dead stop which makes sense. So would it not be impossible to use it to slam into another vessel who was not also in Hyper Space?
Yeah i dont know why nobody has pointed this out before but the raddus CLEARLY doesnt hit the supremecy at light speed
@Umbreona kicking up the same nest I have dude good luck with it. I have yet to see someone actually come up with a reasonable in universe explanation for it.
No worries. I am ironclad. I can handle their stings to get to the honey inside.
still raises a lot of questions on why this was never used before.
Perhaps plasma weaponry has a limited range, becouse plasma in a turbolaser disperses after a short ammount of time? I remember that it is one of the reasons why modern militaries have issues with weaponising plasma. I guess it would have to happen due to particles hitting the blasma "cloud", but we know that in Star Wars space appears to cause a major resistance, similar to a weak atmosphere.
I can buy it would PROBABLY disperse over time, but not at the ranges shown, or probably that it would arc.
I'm not saying that this is the reason why it arcs, I'm just uploading a possible explanation for SW weaponry' short range.
I kind of like the idea of a kinetic, guided core (Covenant plasma), but the turbolasers also have a constant arc so it could be some sort of loading of the containment of the turbolaser energy (I forget the technobabble here) but in such a way that it "spins"; think backspin that keeps a baseball aloft when you throw it, but the opposite to force an arc as it's fired. As for why they do it, maybe it's a bit easier to fire up and over from the plane of the Supremacy over those distances rather than straight forward.
I mean, I can see the First Order using focused tractor beam technology to arc their turbolasers into a non-line-of-sight weapon.
Snoke is a great chef
hi lucaas
Does he serve milkshakes?
He is half good, half evil
Replicators vs a Unified Star Wars universe (178th try now, *_I._** WILL NEEEEVER EEEVER GIVE UP!!!)*
Reps
Hey Eck, can you do a lore video on how when the ships run out of fuel they drift backward despite their inertia allowing them to continue their path without a change in speed? It’s not like the Raddus sped up every time they ran out of fuel from a still perspective right?
Star Wars empire at war had turbolaser based artillery that arced. This technology was used by the empire and likely came into possession of the first order.
DrBigMa I think those were plasma mortars, and they were in atmosphere
Also they’re probably a green proton torpedo based on the shape of the projectile
The harvesters fleets from ID4 and Resurgence combined vs Imperial Navy
Resurgent class star destroyer (Star Wars) vs 2 CCS battlecruiser (Halo)
I think the ORS heavy cruiser or something similar would be better suited to fight the Resurgent
Is it possible that it has something to do with how the cannon discharges? Like maybe there is a spin on it or how it jerks when discharged?
If there was some reason that the rounds would lose velocity, it would be fairly simple.
I could easily believe the camera effects. If you've ever played Star Wars Battlefront II you can see theres a visual effect setting in the options menu, and when it is turned on it kind of makes the corners of your screen wonky.
Turbolasers have a limited range because Plasma bleeds energy like a bitch. It's why we don't have Plasma weapons IRL.
Revans Sith Empire vs Galactic Empire
OmegaGamer414 with the Star Forge, Revan would absolutely destroy the Galactic Empire. He'd just rock up with ten Death Stars and a hundred Eclipse Class SSDs and blow Coruscant to pieces
Galactic Empire would win EASILY!!!!
rahul327 The empire has the Death Star, it would just travel to the Star forge and destroy it. Also, the ISD and Super Star destroyers are much larger and more powerful than the ships Revan has access to.
Trajan but Revan is cool so it is ok
storm trooper lieutenant He is cool but Vader is cooler
I know this is an old video, but there is some blaster drop in Episode 3. 1:25:07 while senator organa screams no after the padawan is shot, there is a blaster shot to the top left that arcs as it travels. You can clearly see it. This is in an atmosphere, and not in space though
In Halo the Covenant are able to guide their plasma weapons via a magnetic field (which is the main limiting factor on their range) it could be a similar case here?
or just bad writing
Kyle DeepNutt
Deadpool 2 reference
There good at that
What does a stylistic choice have to do with bad writing? It doesn't. You just have no idea what your talking about.
Star Wars does not operate by the rule of cool. It operates by the rule of space opera/fantasy. You hear sounds in space due to artistic licence, for the sake of entertainment.
Arc shots like that would make sense if it was consistent with the other entrances of the Saga. It's not. The only way to set up these is to label it as new tech. They didn't. Therefore, they created a continuity error.
These are not a problem within the movie. These are a problem within these visual guides.
Luc Fauvarque I wouldn't say it's inconsistent san we have never seen a ship that size fire at that range. Remember we could barely see the star destroyers which looked like points of light in the distance
Couple of ideas:
the charge of the shots is such that it is attracted to the shields, causing it to arc in when it got close. would help landing shots. wouldn't explain any arcing mid flight though
other idea is that the top part of the shot is charged more than the bottom, causing the top part to go faster, and puts a sort of top spin on the shot.
thoughts?
Also, are those ships constantly accelerating? Cause if they are traveling at top speeds for those thrusters, why not cut and drift, saving fuel. And why are the ships that run out of fuel stopping?
Cus rian johnson is a bad writer and director?
Looper was good, though.
It's a stylistic choice how is this bad writing?
like space combat makes sense in star wars....
There is no convincing in universe nor ex universe explanation for why those shots arc. It's just over the top tryhard and therefore crap.
Keep on your good work.
You use the word tryhard, but I doubt they tried at all...
That's how we got into this mess.
I love this channel but wish eckheart would abandon disney star wars. It wastes valuble time he could spend helping us learn about far more interesting series
Kyber Cat i agree
Kyber Cat I’m sorry but that makes no fucking sense.
Justin Thompson they tryhard to make it look cool and fail.
Maybe with an another reason, these plasma blasts designs from the Force Awakens era to Phantom Menace era like comparing how the blasts were identified; the plasma blasts they had in Phantom Menace all the way to Return Of The Jedi had more of a straight cylinder line way of being shot out at targets, as compared to Force Awakens era with more of a bigger more, lethal ball shaped blasts- and infact that proton torpedoes had this ball design with the way of being targeted. Example turning corners into a exhaust port with the Death Star raids- so I presume that every ammunition in this era was created in a way to match torpedoes.
The Death Star shot was guided through the force, otherwise, that shot was impossible. It's an exhaust port, the torpedo should've been launched away from it.
Slender Man/Douglas Mitchell I’m sure the force of the thrusters on the torpedoes probably counteracted the gas if they were moving faster than Luke’s fighter
Considering that the lasers are, as you described, superheated gases, it is possible that the range limit for turbolasers is due to the plasma molecules cooling from their excited state, thus losing potency as they continue through space. This is supported by the face that turbolasers need to be heated and charged before firing a shot, as displayed in the opening of the Last Jedi when the Bellator IV Super Dreadnaught had to recharge its ventral cannons. It’s also shown in the beginning of the Force Awakens much more obviously during Poe and Finn’s escape from the First Order’s Resurgent-Class Battlecruiser. During the attempted escape, Lieutenant Mitaka reports to General Hux “Sir, Ventral cannons hot.” Granted, those were Concussion Missile launchers, but the basic principle still applies.
its because its all based on WW2 battleships and those huge shells fire in a arc its that simple.
No. It’s as simple as bad writing. Ekharts is simply in denial.
yeah that's what I was saying with the production team under darth kathleen kennedy.
The Expanse is better
well yeah hollywood runs on movie magic duh :P
Hero Support dude eckhart’s is wrong but that’s because they ARE projectiles. There’s a big bulb lit up with plasma, with a meteor tail behind it. No turbolaser shot looks like that. However, it does kinda look like a proton torpedo. I mean, the way a proton torpedo works sounds kinda like it.
The thing is idc if the shots arc if they are going with guidence systems. But the movie in general was sooo stupid and this did not happen in Legends or canon. Mr. Rian is kinda stupid...
You cant be more on point then this lol
Its strange how you cant even provide a vital reason for the film being bad. You just say to your opinion.
There is no arc . The ships were accelerating and the camera follows the ships path, not the path of the projectile.
I swear its like listening to Michael Bay fans try to defend the crapformers franchise. You like the movie, fine, but don't pretend there aren't serious problems with the movie. You liking it does not excuse away bad writing or design.
IRONHEART I like when he defended a bad plot point with non disney canon legends material. Dude clearly doesn't understand star wars at all.
"That's out of my expertise"
"I dont feel like that's a compelling argument"
Two things about plasma weapons (if they would be possible at all):
1: To fire a plasma bolt, you would need some method of keeping the ball of plasma from not just rapidly expanding once it left the barrel of the weapon. Maybe a strand of superconducting metal in the core of the plasma bolt which would be charged by the plasma and produce a containment field? On impact, the coil would snap and the energy would be released against the target. Therefor, an opposing ship could have a strong magnetic field around it to try to repel the plasma bolt and the "arc" would be a way to counter that or at least interfere with the path of the plasma bolt.
2: The field coil would draw its power from the bolt itself, thus over time and distance the bolt would lose power. Plus the high energy plasma most likely would eventually melt the coil, which would also limit the range.
As a matter of fact the Supremacy is supposed to have extremely advanced computing and targeting systems using localized hyperspace to make data transmission and processing vastly superior to anything seen before. Specifically this allowed the ship to accurately hit targets based on last known position and heading by calculating all the possible positions of the target and choosing the most likely.
All this would be useless at very long ranges though..... unless they could alter their target point after firing.
No ! I reject any and all attempts to justify this travesty! From an "in universe" perspective there has never been a weapon that arched in any previous Star Wars movie, cartoon, game... nothing. Had we started like this then I would gladly accept it as "that the way things work" but this goes against all previous factors
2012blueridge we have also never seen large capital ships firing at each other at such a long range......
Was brought to my attention that the artillery guns you see in the animated clone wars movie have arcing shots. So ya it is in universe.
@@saber5694 those artillery shots aren't turbo lasers, and yeah we have seen ships firing at very long range, on many MANY occasions during the clone wars. Stop defending this fucking idiocy. It's definetly not internally consistent, and even if you manage to find some obscure example of turbo lasers in space having firing arcs, then you need to justify why the fuck the first order would equip those on it's fucking flagship.
The laser from Starkiller Base branched out to destroy the planets. Please note, I'm not trying defend TLJ here. Quite the opposite. I'm criticizing TFA too.
@@saber5694 those are on planets with gravity tho.
normal bullets spin to increase accuracy at long ranges this effect can move the bullet so it no longer goes in a line could plasma bolts be similar ?
Isn't it possible to arc the trajectory of a projectile by having it spin on itself before shooting it out? Maybe the angle of incidence of the projectile on the shield has an effect on its piercing capacity therefore it would be tactically sound to try and bend the trajectory of your attacks so that the projectile hits the surface of the shield as perpendicular as possible.
I never clicked on a vid so fast, I have no clue why rian Johnson rekt gravity. Meh.
Lugar Fan
Oh my god...
Nice
no
yes
I remeber asking my friend this same question in the theater while this scene played
Coming from my experience in space engineers, the target vessels might have ill-calibrated gravity fields(ie. extend beyond the confines of the skip in all three axes) and the weapon might not be a laser but a plasma based weapon that would create a ballistic arc in the presence of significant gravity. Edit: after watching and learning turbolasers are plasma based, maybe the weapons shots are so massive that they are affected by gravity where as smaller turbolasers before it weren't large enough.
Mate, the raddus was less than 22 km, there is a 22 km moon of mars that barely has any gravity. So no its just disney crap
They could be fighting near a black hole and the gravity well of the black hole is pulling the turbolaser towards it and the f/o is using that to it's advantage in trying to get around the shield
I think because Johnson want make Star Wars his own and screw everything that came before it
sounds like a typical starwars fan after episode 6 came out 30 years ago XD
Rose Erin it had everything there and was a good movie but to me it seems like it killed the entire storyline and just a different movie and not part of a this story line the prequels did the same yes I young when the original ones came out and think this series could be just as good if not better but he did ruin that
Nathan Wheeler *tastes ground* it's salt guys! Not snow! See we TOTALLY aren't ripping off hoth and empire strikes back! Now let's kill these giant slow moving 4 legged walkers as the approach our base with *checks book material* ...snow troopers? In salt? Oh wait, nevermind we're totally just lazily ripping off Empire! Now let's end on a down note where the small band of rebels are fleeing from the victorious empire! -a totally new movie written by a creative brilliant writer/director
+Nathan Wheeler Actually Johnson is following space combat tradition pretty closely as EC Henry explains ruclips.net/video/zmk3YS7xLOo/видео.html
NinjaTyler you got a good point just like the force awakens was Stars Wars too as I said this wasn't a bad movie it not the best one of all of them Actually I going out on a limb and saying of ALL of them Rogue One was the best then the original ones these are still good md I watched them fee times I just felt the story line in this left a big fuck you to the fans and JJ mube that's why they bring him back for the last one
Perhaps it’s a deliberate change in the trajectory in order to allow the topside guns to hit targets below the ship? That seems to be a useful answer at any rate.
The first order does also say that the resistance ships are out of range for their turbo lasers to be effective against their shields, could effect it also!
Probably doesnt work physics-wise at all, but maybe because these turbolaser shots are so massive, they would be inaccurate at long range. Maybe the shots are "spun" in a similar way to putting spin on a baseball. This makes it arc, but makes it more accurate over long distance. Just my thoughts
A spinning baseball arcs because it is hitting the air, which a shot in space would not do. In space combat, accuracy at range is basically just down to how much granularity do you have in your ability to adjust your weapons, and how good are your computers? Basically how much money do you have to throw at this ship. Given how excessive the Supremacy is, I would imagine there was a fair sized budget for it.
Granularity, huh?
Draw a half circle on a piece of paper. At about the halfway point put a X which we will call X1, now towards either end draw a X which we will call X2.
Now imagine that X2 is trying to fire at X1 but X1 is traveling along that curve away from X2. X2 would then calculate where X1 will be when the shot arrives and fire ahead of them. Even though the shot would travel in a straight line from the perspective of X1 the shot starts out above them and arcs down into them.
There is no need for fancified technological explanations or any form of ex machina.
Except that the Supremacy's batteries are firing in a 45 degree arc while the Raddus is moving below it, preventing the shots from even targeting the ship, note that all the shots from the Supremacy's viewpoint still arc, whereas your visual trick would require them to fire straight from that view.
A little late. Attempt 68. Please like and comment a number, thank you 🙂
1) StarCraft vs Halo Can Reach survive a Zerg invasion?
2) 2 Harrower Dreadnaughts vs 1 Imperial Star Destroyer
3) Factions Compared Best Military Commander
4) Behemoth class Battlecruiser vs Venator Star Destroyer
5) Top 5 Imperial commanders from canon
6) Mandator class Dreadnaught vs Resurgent class Battlecruiser
Actually I was watching the Clone Wars series and I can't recall what episode it was but I did notice a shot arcing in one episode. It was just the one instance of it but maybe that's something that happens or can be done. Maybe it's also possible that the further the superheated travels the more its trajectory changes since it is something that has mass and energy. This would make sense since the Supremacy is firing at something just outside its firing range.
I'd say it's due to the inherent electromagnetic properties of both the plasma projectile and the Resistance's ships' shields causing an interaction that drew the turbolaser fire naturally towards their targets. Because the energy of both the shield and the plasma-based lasers is a lot more of an active force than simple gravity, if the lasers were carrying an opposite charge to the shields they might be more strongly drawn to each other.