Thanks for some history of the Kid's illustrious short life, and of the Lincoln County War that adds to the often fabled story. I love it's history, and how it's kept current even after 150 years. In some people's minds it seems as if the pros and cons of the two warring sides are still being debated, but the Kid's history rides on, he died young but lives on supreme in the minds of many of those hating the frequent abuses of those with excessive power.
When visiting Lincoln some 20+ years go, we stumbled upon the graves behind the store while exploring, very cool! It was said that Tunstall was just as crooked as Murphy and Dolan and wanted 50 cents out of every dollar spent in Lincoln County to end up their pockets. Highly recommend a visit to Lincoln and especially the Tunstall store and the courthouse which was built by Murphy and was originally his store.
Was Tunstall and his lawyer into murdering Murphy or Dolan? One thing is to be crooked in business goals (does it warrant an execution sentence, without even a trial?) another is, to frankly run "business" like Mafia bosses..... which seems the Irish clannish honchos were used to run things in that county for over a decade, before more business people and lawyers would eventually arrive from Civilization. Or what were they expecting, Time to pause or pass over Lincoln county?
@@pendragonU Interesting thoughts. A lot of intrigue in the New Mexico territory of those days as entire territory was controlled by the Santa Fe Ring, a group of wealthy powerful men who included Attorney General Thomas Catron who happened to hold the mortgage on Murphy-Dolan's store. Tunstall's store was bleeding business from Murphy-Dolan and was seen as a direct threat. IMO, I don't believe Tunstall and McSween had designs on eliminating Murphy and/or Dolan through violence, only economically. Murphy and Dolan apparently had different plans and both factions having employed hired guns, things were bound to and did come to a violent head. If one visits the town of Lincoln today and is willing to take the time to speak with the residents, you'll find that many are descendants of the original townsfolk and there are still some undercurrents of hard feelings that have been passed down through the generations. BTW, interesting moniker. You wouldn't happen to have a son named Arthur would you?
These are some very neat videos. Thanks for posting them! Doing a very good job telling the story, you seem very passionate about the story. Would love to hear MORE!
I can't help but wonder why they do not run a ground scanning radar over the areas to prove once and for all if they are buried there or in the "other" location.
It would bring dignity on their memories and souls, and indirectly on the locals, but these seem to still prefer to have those two men MURDERED in their town.... ditched in unmarked graves, as ultimate insult on top of injury?....maybe so they can go and relieve themselves too on their graves sites while looking down the river?
It was not stolen.. Due to the Lincoln County War no tombstone was placed and after Billy was 'killed' nobody came to put a proper stone not knowing the exact place he was buried. The Regulators put the wooden cross up in a hurry then went out and hid.
Not shown in the video are brass plaque markers next to the crosses. They are usually overgrown with grass and can be easily missed, I almost did over 20 years ago.
@@michaelinscoe7547 So the descendants of the winners in that "war" still run things around and would not let his British family to make a proper grave or remove his remains to bury at a more decent sacred ground than some backyard or neighbors bothered to have corpses removed? Seems they keeping up to their ancestors ways to run things in less than civilized ways and they continue control on that county in shady dark ways
@@davidangelamelcher9591I saw some fairly recent footage taken from behind the store last week or so from a person touring Lincoln. He couldn’t find anything at all, leading me to believe perhaps the crosses are now gone, too.
It is very convenient for the locals to have these graves nearby but with the numerous floods in the valley over the decades there is zero certainty there are human remains in either “grave” . And yes, I have been to that site
do human remains disintegrate with rains? How do they keep finding remains many hundreds, thousands of years older everywhere, even in valleys they had not only rains but lakes all over and glaciers on top around, and the remains are not only not vaporized they can even tell their ages, sex and all bones tests?
@@pendragonUThe point being made is these graves, along with the graves in the Ft. Sumner Cemetary, are placed near rivers that are prone to flooding. Those flooding rivers erode the land these graves are placed. Bodies, coffins and markers get washed away in the current, often to never be seen again...until maybe someday skeletal remains get stumbled upon in random locations along the riverbed.
It's easy to survive a gun fight. 2015 I got shot in forehead. Through the neck. Both arms and I still kicked the shooters ass. Poor boy is in prison... Haha. Got shot with a 45.
John Chisom had the money. McSwean was a broke thief. Tunstil wasn't rich either. He had cattle but wasn't enough to be in competition with anyone. Billy was tied to John Chisom. Not John Tunstil really. I'm pretty sure the fued started between Murphy and McSwean over a case MacSwean handled where he ripped off his client. Murphy held Tunstil accountable. That is why Tunstil was killed, because he wouldn't pay the money back for McSwean. Funny how the historians leave out crucial information like that. Lol
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i hope one day i'll visit those places, i'm from Brazil but i love american old west tales. thanks for the video
Pat Garrett was from Brazil? Guess you learn a new thing every day :)
It is great to actually see the places where these events happened and were the subject of so much writing over the years.
Thanks for some history of the Kid's illustrious short life, and of the Lincoln County War that adds to the often fabled story. I love it's history, and how it's kept current even after 150 years. In some people's minds it seems as if the pros and cons of the two warring sides are still being debated, but the Kid's history rides on, he died young but lives on supreme in the minds of many of those hating the frequent abuses of those with excessive power.
I would have been on the Kids side.
When visiting Lincoln some 20+ years go, we stumbled upon the graves behind the store while exploring, very cool! It was said that Tunstall was just as crooked as Murphy and Dolan and wanted 50 cents out of every dollar spent in Lincoln County to end up their pockets.
Highly recommend a visit to Lincoln and especially the Tunstall store and the courthouse which was built by Murphy and was originally his store.
Was Tunstall and his lawyer into murdering Murphy or Dolan? One thing is to be crooked in business goals (does it warrant an execution sentence, without even a trial?) another is, to frankly run "business" like Mafia bosses..... which seems the Irish clannish honchos were used to run things in that county for over a decade, before more business people and lawyers would eventually arrive from Civilization. Or what were they expecting, Time to pause or pass over Lincoln county?
@@pendragonU Interesting thoughts. A lot of intrigue in the New Mexico territory of those days as entire territory was controlled by the Santa Fe Ring, a group of wealthy powerful men who included Attorney General Thomas Catron who happened to hold the mortgage on Murphy-Dolan's store. Tunstall's store was bleeding business from Murphy-Dolan and was seen as a direct threat.
IMO, I don't believe Tunstall and McSween had designs on eliminating Murphy and/or Dolan through violence, only economically. Murphy and Dolan apparently had different plans and both factions having employed hired guns, things were bound to and did come to a violent head.
If one visits the town of Lincoln today and is willing to take the time to speak with the residents, you'll find that many are descendants of the original townsfolk and there are still some undercurrents of hard feelings that have been passed down through the generations.
BTW, interesting moniker. You wouldn't happen to have a son named Arthur would you?
These are some very neat videos. Thanks for posting them! Doing a very good job telling the story, you seem very passionate about the story. Would love to hear MORE!
They deserve better
Superb video.
I wonder why they were not buried in a cemetery?
Very nice video 👍
Get the x-ray machines to see if any bodies are in the graves.
I can't help but wonder why they do not run a ground scanning radar over the areas to prove once and for all if they are buried there or in the "other" location.
Jeff C
It would bring dignity on their memories and souls, and indirectly on the locals, but these seem to still prefer to have those two men MURDERED in their town.... ditched in unmarked graves, as ultimate insult on top of injury?....maybe so they can go and relieve themselves too on their graves sites while looking down the river?
Well done.
Awesome videos man, I hope I get to see that place someday.
so Tunstall was wealthy and came from a wealthy family but has no grave marker of stone. HHHMMMM. I wonder if it was taken in the past.
It was not stolen.. Due to the Lincoln County War no tombstone was placed and after Billy was 'killed' nobody came to put a proper stone not knowing the exact place he was buried. The Regulators put the wooden cross up in a hurry then went out and hid.
Not shown in the video are brass plaque markers next to the crosses. They are usually overgrown with grass and can be easily missed, I almost did over 20 years ago.
@@michaelinscoe7547 So the descendants of the winners in that "war" still run things around and would not let his British family to make a proper grave or remove his remains to bury at a more decent sacred ground than some backyard or neighbors bothered to have corpses removed? Seems they keeping up to their ancestors ways to run things in less than civilized ways and they continue control on that county in shady dark ways
@@davidangelamelcher9591I saw some fairly recent footage taken from behind the store last week or so from a person touring Lincoln. He couldn’t find anything at all, leading me to believe perhaps the crosses are now gone, too.
That's very strange there are no other graves than theirs!!
Why? It isn’t a cemetery.
It is very convenient for the locals to have these graves nearby but with the numerous floods in the valley over the decades there is zero certainty there are human remains in either “grave” . And yes, I have been to that site
do human remains disintegrate with rains? How do they keep finding remains many hundreds, thousands of years older everywhere, even in valleys they had not only rains but lakes all over and glaciers on top around, and the remains are not only not vaporized they can even tell their ages, sex and all bones tests?
@@pendragonUThe point being made is these graves, along with the graves in the Ft. Sumner Cemetary, are placed near rivers that are prone to flooding. Those flooding rivers erode the land these graves are placed. Bodies, coffins and markers get washed away in the current, often to never be seen again...until maybe someday skeletal remains get stumbled upon in random locations along the riverbed.
You can not trespass the eyes from public property continue to give up your rights!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LMMFAO LMMFAO
Reap it Murphy!
The true victims of this mess.
what he say
Supposed graves? Is it not confirmed? Just curious
Their actual graves are believed to be located on private property in someone's back yard....
I like the Susan McSween stories............. apparently she liked to fool around.
Good job, Regulators!
Can't hear what your talking about
3 words "group penitraoting radar".
Ground penetrating radar
It's easy to survive a gun fight. 2015 I got shot in forehead. Through the neck. Both arms and I still kicked the shooters ass. Poor boy is in prison... Haha. Got shot with a 45.
dig em up.
they dont know where they are buried at
John Chisom had the money. McSwean was a broke thief. Tunstil wasn't rich either. He had cattle but wasn't enough to be in competition with anyone. Billy was tied to John Chisom. Not John Tunstil really. I'm pretty sure the fued started between Murphy and McSwean over a case MacSwean handled where he ripped off his client. Murphy held Tunstil accountable. That is why Tunstil was killed, because he wouldn't pay the money back for McSwean. Funny how the historians leave out crucial information like that. Lol
How did they manage to feed cattle on such baron land?