Hope you enjoyed the video! Were you surprised that arrows pierced chainmail so easily? Remember you can watch the full length episode with a 14-day FREE trial on History Hit TV here: access.historyhit.com/what-s-new/videos/ray-mears-the-bow-from-survival-to-conquest-part-one And as RUclips subscribers, you'll get 50% off your first 3 months when you use the code RUclips. access.historyhit.com/checkout/subscribe/purchase?code=youtube&plan=monthly&RUclips&CommunityPost&RayMears
@@naninano8813 75odd lbs (34kg) is impossible to hold in that position for any extended periods of time, so you want to draw and release with one smooth motion. Your aim will wander as your arms get tired within a couple of seconds and your form crushes in a bit as you resist the draw weight. Many others will explain this far better than I who has next to no experience in archery though
Ray's the kind of guy who says "No no, I don't really dance. Maybe once a long time ago." when asked to get on the dance floor. But after being prodded a bit he busts out moves that a 20 year old break dancer couldn't perform.
Yep, that’s him. A true Englishman versed in proper understatement. There’s a bit in one of his survival shows decades ago where he’s invited onto a deer stalk and asked if he’s ever used a rifle before. “A bit.” Then fells a deer at some preposterous range, firing uphill in high winds, with a borrowed gun he’s not even zeroed, and everyone else on the trip ends up flabbergasted.
@@michaeljames4904 he also does the same in some scene about wrestling where he says he used to dabble in judo , then proceeds to throw opponent about like a wet sock !!
Yes but his hand then need3d a good shake out, which he does with no comment about it, straight after whilst chatting to the guys. 😊 you gotta love him… and the SPEED of his draw to aim was spectacular
Ray is a hero and an icon. Easy to love and so calm in his explanation of the world around us. He survived a helicopter crash uninjured and selflessly ran to an injured crewmember despite being dowsed with fuel, at risk of fire yet unphased. He worked with Northumbria police in an effort to track Raoul Moat. He started his owned company, Woodlore, in 1983 but it became so successful that it ended up taking on his name. Thing is, this man wanted to be a Royal Marine, a goal which only the best strive for. He didn't make it due to his eyesight. Legend went from an aspiring soldier to accomplished woodsman and inspiration for millions if outdoors loving lunatics all over. I'm definitely one.
Love it! Ooh, by the way... In a couple of weeks time or so, Tod, Joe and a team of armourers, fletchers, and historians are scheduled to upload their follow up of their Arrows vs. Armour video. Could the infamous English longbow and it's arrows pierce the armour of the day, and if so, what would it have looked like? Please pardon the plug, I'm just genuinely very curious and interested and would like more people to join in... Well, if you didn't already know, now you know.
Good to see you on here Ray. I've just been watching your Extreme and Bushcraft Survival series back over the last few weeks. very pleased to see your knowledge and practical applications attributed to this channel alongside the fellow presenters/academics/historians.
How much difference would the padding underneath the chainmail do? The chainmail is mainly there to protect the underlaying padding against cuts after all.
Nice! I’ve been a fan of Ray’s since his earliest bushcrafting days, and of Tod’s since he started making videos. Worlds collide! What an awesome collaboration. :)
Ray Mears, Tod Cutler and Joe Gibbs are 3 of the coolest cats to walk the Earth, and here they are in the same video! Bravo ladies and gentlemen, bravo 👌🏼
I expect it'll be over on Tod's channel, but I'd have liked if they had taken a bit closer look at the damage the chain had taken from the arrows. Those are pretty broad heads, wondering if it burst the rivets or actually sheared the links completely.
There is now substantial doubt among historians that Harold was felled by an arrow. The tapestry depiction is an apparent later touch-up to depict this, to deflect any blame on William for having probably assigned a death squad to locate and take out Harold directly, in order to clear any inheritance challenge to William's accession.
@@lancealex5058 that wouldn’t make sense because the archers were formed over a long period of time and were the furthest from the heart of the battle ,they were artillery rather than snipers . A hit squad would be more effective as a group of trained riders who could access any area of the field at speed and in formation .Rather than a lopsided peasant who was only there because his lord orders it !
@@andrewtrip8617 i think he means it was said that harold was felled by an arrow after the battle because william assigned a group of soldiers to find harold, target kill him which wasn't something thats deemed acceptable back then, lords and kings had to be given the right of ransom and not specifically targeted. i think thats what he means anyway
It's possible than harold be seriously injuried by an lost arrow, and was killed after in the battle? In Normandy and France in general, we learn in class than harold was injuried by an arrow in the eye, but killed after by other soldiers
Well done for getting Tod Todeschini and Joe Gibbs to do your experiments for you. You see too many TV shows where sports bows are shot at costume armour and completely nonsensical conclusions drawn from such "experiments". This was real period equipment in the hands of people who know how to use it. Thanks.
It would be a good idea to specify wether this is riveted mail or not, as the riveted type is far more resistant. I think I can see a few rivets on close up of the last image, so it probably is - which makes the penetrative power impressive.
I was very fearful to see yet another ,,Historyvideo" with ,,Experts". I´m so glad u guys nailed it^^. This is how its made. Only thing that was missing as I recall is the specifics of the Mail but it looked like a pretty standard riveted Hauberg like I own, so im fairly confident to say it shoulkd be a good representation for the Craft from back than. Very well made guys and hello to Tod :)
Nice information on bow history! That said, of course arrows would penetrate chainmail. Chainmail was best for protection against slashing. Its success, especially in regards to protecting from penetration, would depend on a myriad of factors, including riveted or not, linkage type, weave density, ring thickness, and the material used. Even when protected, the wearer could still suffer injury like serious bruising and fractures. Thus, a gambeson was a good idea.
Wasn't chainmail always worn with padded armour underneath it though. Sure I read something about crusaders returning to camp and realising they had arrows stuck in their backs that had passed the chainmail but were stopped by the padding. We would be talking Saracen horse back archers with recurve bows here though.
Yeah it's kind of hard to believe because so many tests are very flawed. I think Cult of Athena did a great job on the test on mail because they put it on a dummy that flexes like a person and not on a solid wooden target. The difference is huge on the test. They put crappy riveted mail on crappy padding jacket on the dummy that flexes like a person and the mail & padding was able to even stop full thrust spear!!!! Not just one thrust but multiple!!!! Why? Because the dummy moves like a person and it naturally rolls with the hits not letting all the energy get transferred to that point unlike a solid target.
Look it up here on RUclips. Type in "Cult of Athena chainmail test" or something like that and you'll find videos on it. Is extremely surprising how chainmail stops all these weapons when a test is done very properly. People need to keep in mind a human being is not a solid steel pole or tree, a human flexes and moves around, when the body's hit it will naturally fall back at least a little bit thus not letting all the energy transfer to the point.
It would be interesting to compare the results of the saxon and the norman arrows. With their wider blades and the lack of the supporting ridge, I think the norman arrow would have a much harder time penetrating mail armour.
Did the Saxons have the yew warbow? From what I learnt about early Saxons they looked down on the bow as a cowardly weapon, yet no one would go to battle without some.
Was the chain mail butted or riveted? Maybe I missed something, but that seems to be an important point (much more so than the metallurgy of the arrow point or the chain mail).
Based on my observations of several such videos, I have noticed that the difference between medium-armor (chain and tunic) vs heavy armor (chainmail under platemail) is such a vast chasm against arrows, if only because plate mail seems to affect the angular momentum of projectiles, while chain mail does nothing to redirect the force of these blows.
Glad to hear Tod mentioning that we don't know what draw weight they were using as there is no historical evidence to what draw weight the english bows were right through the weapons use for warfare.
One thing about the Saxon warbow is that it's not really mentioned at the battle of hastings. Norman archers are mentioned. But Saxon archers arent. They're not even mentioned,or shown,during the annual battle of hastings reenactment
The Gambeson would resist the Arrows + bludgeoning, the Mail would resist slashing! You guys only had the Mail here...where was the Gambeson?!?! *At least you guys didn't use Butted Mail....so I'll give you a thumbs up for that much....
Shout out to Danilo 'Tod' Todeschini from Tod's Workshop and professional archer Joe Gibbs, thank you for all your great work! I love Tod's Workshop. I wish that you had backed up progressively to see at what range maille began to be effective. Also was that maille typical of the Conquest period? Just as bow drawweights increased overtime maille quality increased overtime to counter it.
@@2bingtim Seems surprising and unlikely. Source? Aztec atlatls with obsidian heads definitely pierced Spanish armor so knapped stone or perhaps antler heads seems much more likely.
@@leoscheibelhut940 Hi Leo sorry for the delay. It was chronicled by the original sources for both the 1540-43 Coronado & 1539-42 De Soto Spanish expeditions when mail was at the apogee of develpoment. All that's needed is for the arrow to push through one lik, break it & the arrow passes through. It was a range of Indian nations they passed though & found it rather than just Apaches as I'd supposed. Indian arrows from their bows were found capable of shooting through two mail shirts placed together, so 4 layers of mail, with hardwood heads alone. Sources: pages 14-16 American Indian Archey by Reginald & Gladys Laubin, University of Oklahoma press 1980 Origonally- Narratives of the Career of Hernando de Soto by Edward G Bourne, Barnes NY 1904 & The Coronado Expedition 1540-42 by George P Winship, Fourteenth annual report of the Bureau of American Ethnology, Government Printing Office Washington DC 1896 Also page 168, Longbow by Robert Hardy, PSL, 3rd ed 1996
I have two small complains, First - chain mail seems to me like large diameter of the rings, which I do not see as a common mail in that period (but they are riveted which is most important), this allows to arrow penetrate rings easier, but second complain is the distance. This distance you tried is quite reasonable contact distance, but soldiers had usually large shields etc, but what about larger distances? I am more interested in longer distances when arrow is loosing lot of kinetic forces, and I would like to know, if it remains still enough force to broke you bone or something even "lethal". Long distance shooting "balistic trajectory" was also part of the history, and I am still unable to find some clear evidence about effectivity of Bows in such conditions against mail. I know that its definitively not easy to reproduce something like that due to large inacuracy on larger distances like 100yards.
Great video!! Full disclosure, I started watching hoping for an opinion to add to the ones I have gotten from Tod’s channel and boom! There he is!!! 😂 Been focused on late medieval, but MAN does this make me want to do a deeper dive into the earlier period!!!!
The sight of Tod and Joe shooting at the start was a comforting sight. I remember an episode from the history channel where they explained the goeiendag but the weapon wasn''t even close to resembling one.
I would like to point out that it looks like the mail doesn't have any padding beneath it. Now I'm no expert on Saxon armor specifically, but I do know that mail is supposed to have padding beneath it. That said, I can't imagine that the end result would be much different with how deep that arrow goes and the fact that we have records of a king dying to an arrow.
Mail still had its advantages, in fact initial engagement would be much further out and an overlayment of armor, metal or leather, would contribute to saving the target. The attacker would attempt to push the archers to deplete their magazine of arrows. It the archers were behind or protected by infantry, they would be shooting at further distance.
It would be interesting to see the penetration capabilities at typical battlefield volley distances instead of point-blank but yea, for sure, if you’re super close to an archer might have your shield up…..
For starters; Tod says that the draw weight of bows in the 11th century was about 70 pounds - but offers NO evidence to support that claim. By early Tudor times, commentators of the day were complaining that English archers were not as powerful as their fathers and grandfathers were - yet what was the typical draw weight of arrows salvaged for the Tudor ship, the 'Mary Rose'? About *140* pounds! That being the case, I can see NO reason to assume that 11th century archers, who practised from boyhood, could only pull a draw weight used by modern re-enactors who do archery as a hobby. After all, those archers had every reason to work up to the heaviest bow possible, giving them maximum killing range - not only when hunting for the pot, but even more so when in a battle, knowing that your life depended on it. Secondly, military archers would NOT have used hunting arrows in battle! Fletchers made as big a variety of arrows back then as modern car tyre makers make today, suiting the product to its intended use. And what arrow was purpose-made for use against chain mail? The long bodkin. A long and finely tapered arrow, the fine tip easily entering the loops of chain mail, and the long narrow taper bursting the ring open by a wedging action, enabling deep penetration.
The thing that has always somewhat amazed me is that ancient peoples scattered across the world developed this genius device independently. Whatever caused them to stretch a sinew across a stick, and imagine it sending a deadly projectile - also needing invention? To realize that feathers would stabilize the flight of that object? To calculate the proper ratio of length/thickness and wood type for power? Incredible.
People even as far back as the stone ages often took long journeys even up to hundreds/thousands of miles; IMO it would be far more likely for an ancestor to the concept to be developed once, used to spectacular millitary effect and then spread far and wide as everyone realised that not having a bow put you at a potential disadvantage both in hunting and defending yourself/your homeland. If hundreds of thousands of people are all making rough approximations of an idea over many generations, there's bound to be a lot of variation and then people copying the successful variations until the skill is refined enough for some to do so professionally and then generations of innovations later we get something that seems impossible to invent on its own. Given that even the isolated Easter Islands were colonised by ancient humans, we'd do well not to undestimate their ability and will to travel.
At least some of the power in a drawn long bow is used to accelerate the limbs of the bow. How strong a modern double action bow would be needed to get the same 'muzzle velocity' with a heavy war arrow.
Joe didn't really get an introduction in the video but then again, I doubt he needs one at this point. Anyone who is into medieval archery probably knows of Joe at the very least.
@@chrismccaffrey8256 Depends on the technique. If you draw only enough to release the arrow with a bit of force you need much less energy than drawing to your cheek. I´ve seen a lot of novices drawing the bow to their chest where only about half of the draw length is utilised and therefore about half the strength is needed.
I wonder if people noticed the shorter bow that you see on the tapestry. Because I think this type of bow was way more common but I never saw someone cover this type. Does anyone know more about this?
I guess real battlefield has lots of changing factors. The distance here is so short that it is a matter of seconds when the footsoldiers reach the archers. The arrows hit quite direct angle to torso but arrow hit to sides may not pierce mail. Weaker mail and better arrow tip gives different result than better quality armor against bad arrows. I have seen many times armors where soldier has chain mail underneath and plate mail covering chest. It was like today… arms race.
I found a 4,000 year old chert barbed and tanged arrowhead in a potato field. A beautifully made object although I often wonder how annoyed its original owner must have been at losing it.
The end is great and important, because you then realize that the archers of the era would have done this for a living. Either for hunting or for regular military training. And very likely both. I'm not as big an expert into this side of history, but I understand the English were requiring their people to have regular events, tournaments for archery, so as to keep their skills sharpened even if they were not at war.
Hope you enjoyed the video! Were you surprised that arrows pierced chainmail so easily? Remember you can watch the full length episode with a 14-day FREE trial on History Hit TV here: access.historyhit.com/what-s-new/videos/ray-mears-the-bow-from-survival-to-conquest-part-one
And as RUclips subscribers, you'll get 50% off your first 3 months when you use the code RUclips.
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Oh gee guess I don't have to watch the video now I know what happens.
Ray: "I don't even think I can pull the string back these days"
Also Ray: Nails two shots in the upper chest with ease
Looked like heart shots didn't it. The looks on Tod's and Joe's faces said it all. Pretty impressive.
🤣
Ray just has to imagine the target as a nice piece of slow roasted boar or venison and he'll never miss the kill-shot 😉
@@naninano8813 Supposedly, the longer you hold it, the less reliably accurate it is.
@@naninano8813 75odd lbs (34kg) is impossible to hold in that position for any extended periods of time, so you want to draw and release with one smooth motion. Your aim will wander as your arms get tired within a couple of seconds and your form crushes in a bit as you resist the draw weight.
Many others will explain this far better than I who has next to no experience in archery though
I was looking for this comment 😆
Ray's the kind of guy who says "No no, I don't really dance. Maybe once a long time ago." when asked to get on the dance floor. But after being prodded a bit he busts out moves that a 20 year old break dancer couldn't perform.
He didn't even pull it full draw either and still penetrated the mail with ease.
Like Roland Deschain
@kev3d Quit saying what people are and what they would and wouldn’t do worry about yourself before you judge others you don’t even know Ray
Yep, that’s him. A true Englishman versed in proper understatement. There’s a bit in one of his survival shows decades ago where he’s invited onto a deer stalk and asked if he’s ever used a rifle before. “A bit.” Then fells a deer at some preposterous range, firing uphill in high winds, with a borrowed gun he’s not even zeroed, and everyone else on the trip ends up flabbergasted.
@@michaeljames4904 he also does the same in some scene about wrestling where he says he used to dabble in judo , then proceeds to throw opponent about like a wet sock !!
Ray Mears is an absolute legend!
I love how Ray Mears was like" I dont even know if i can still draw this its been years" and then puts his first arrow straight in the heart.
Then the next perfectly mirrored on the other side of the chest. Ray "hold my pint" Mears.
and it was a quick-draw! pull and release in one motion - no 'aim'
Yes but his hand then need3d a good shake out, which he does with no comment about it, straight after whilst chatting to the guys. 😊 you gotta love him… and the SPEED of his draw to aim was spectacular
Love it when two RUclips worlds collide like this! Thanks so much for this snippet, folks.
Stay tuned for more collaborations with Tod!
Was pretty excited for Ray Mears, then hyped when Todd showed up, and then Joe Gibbs was there as well. Excellent colab guys.
Getting Ray Mears involved is a genius move, thank you
Ray is a hero of mine, I've watched him since childhood.
Me too. Great memories.
Ray is a hero and an icon. Easy to love and so calm in his explanation of the world around us.
He survived a helicopter crash uninjured and selflessly ran to an injured crewmember despite being dowsed with fuel, at risk of fire yet unphased.
He worked with Northumbria police in an effort to track Raoul Moat.
He started his owned company, Woodlore, in 1983 but it became so successful that it ended up taking on his name.
Thing is, this man wanted to be a Royal Marine, a goal which only the best strive for. He didn't make it due to his eyesight. Legend went from an aspiring soldier to accomplished woodsman and inspiration for millions if outdoors loving lunatics all over. I'm definitely one.
Hes the real deal unlike that pretentious prick bear grylls, cringe!!
@@deanodog3667 I'd pick Bear over Ray though for any survival situation. Bear knows where the hotels are. 😂
TODD CUTLER!!! JOE GIBBS!!! So great seeing History Hit talking to these legends!
Love it! Ooh, by the way... In a couple of weeks time or so, Tod, Joe and a team of armourers, fletchers, and historians are scheduled to upload their follow up of their Arrows vs. Armour video. Could the infamous English longbow and it's arrows pierce the armour of the day, and if so, what would it have looked like? Please pardon the plug, I'm just genuinely very curious and interested and would like more people to join in... Well, if you didn't already know, now you know.
Or a follow up to Tod & Matt's experiments with the Rondel dagger
Maille alone, yes, shield and maille, only rarely, plate, no. But maille alone was never the armor of the day.
Good to see you on here Ray.
I've just been watching your Extreme and Bushcraft Survival series back over the last few weeks. very pleased to see your knowledge and practical applications attributed to this channel alongside the fellow presenters/academics/historians.
Ray: " I'm not sure I can even pull it back these days"
Proceeds to drive two arrows through the heart
The other 2 guys look at each other as if to say 'have we just been hustled by Ray Mears?'
@@eddyk3 haha yeah! The look on Joe's face is priceless, he is just in awe.
"Not sure I can even pull it back these days." Puts his first shot in the heart, second center sternum.
the heart is on the other side in most humans )))
@@Burboss Ray's FIRST shot, as STATED, was in the LEFT chest area at the heart region. THAT is where human hearts are, you pebble-brain.
@@Burboss The heart is on your left. As you look at someone head on its on the right but from your own perspective left.
How much difference would the padding underneath the chainmail do? The chainmail is mainly there to protect the underlaying padding against cuts after all.
It makes a lot of difference, the chain mail takes the brunt of the hit, the padding takes the remainder.
Nice! I’ve been a fan of Ray’s since his earliest bushcrafting days, and of Tod’s since he started making videos. Worlds collide! What an awesome collaboration. :)
It's honestly so neat to see a channel I've watched on RUclips for years collaborate with a guy I'd watch as a kid on TV decades ago.
Ray Mears, Tod Cutler and Joe Gibbs are 3 of the coolest cats to walk the Earth, and here they are in the same video! Bravo ladies and gentlemen, bravo 👌🏼
I expect it'll be over on Tod's channel, but I'd have liked if they had taken a bit closer look at the damage the chain had taken from the arrows. Those are pretty broad heads, wondering if it burst the rivets or actually sheared the links completely.
Ray Mears, Tod Cutler and Joe Gibbs all in one place. I know this is going to be fantastic.
Lovely production, the charming music really added a lot. Nice to see Ray Mears getting in on this youtube living history stuff.
There is now substantial doubt among historians that Harold was felled by an arrow. The tapestry depiction is an apparent later touch-up to depict this, to deflect any blame on William for having probably assigned a death squad to locate and take out Harold directly, in order to clear any inheritance challenge to William's accession.
what if the archer was in the death squad
@@lancealex5058 that wouldn’t make sense because the archers were formed over a long period of time and were the furthest from the heart of the battle ,they were artillery rather than snipers . A hit squad would be more effective as a group of trained riders who could access any area of the field at speed and in formation .Rather than a lopsided peasant who was only there because his lord orders it !
@@andrewtrip8617 i think he means it was said that harold was felled by an arrow after the battle because william assigned a group of soldiers to find harold, target kill him which wasn't something thats deemed acceptable back then, lords and kings had to be given the right of ransom and not specifically targeted. i think thats what he means anyway
That has been doubted since I was a 'young' man'. I'm an old man now!
It's possible than harold be seriously injuried by an lost arrow, and was killed after in the battle?
In Normandy and France in general, we learn in class than harold was injuried by an arrow in the eye, but killed after by other soldiers
Well done for getting Tod Todeschini and Joe Gibbs to do your experiments for you. You see too many TV shows where sports bows are shot at costume armour and completely nonsensical conclusions drawn from such "experiments". This was real period equipment in the hands of people who know how to use it. Thanks.
I was interested in the video. But then I saw my boy Tod and it just kicked it up a notch.
Chad-moment when Mears puts two perfect arrows into the mail, just brilliant stuff
Always funny to me when my fandom all shows up in one video. Tod, Mears, and Gibb all working together in a video!
Oh... and the fella that made my historical display arrows made the arrows shot in this video too.
Ray is a legend
History Hit really are doing some fantastic stuff now! Love it! Thank-you. History is so important!
It would be a good idea to specify wether this is riveted mail or not, as the riveted type is far more resistant. I think I can see a few rivets on close up of the last image, so it probably is - which makes the penetrative power impressive.
Ray, Joe, and Tod all in one package!
Ray and Tod two of my favourite people. Why aren't we seeing more collaboration. Short video but great thanks
I was very fearful to see yet another ,,Historyvideo" with ,,Experts". I´m so glad u guys nailed it^^. This is how its made. Only thing that was missing as I recall is the specifics of the Mail but it looked like a pretty standard riveted Hauberg like I own, so im fairly confident to say it shoulkd be a good representation for the Craft from back than. Very well made guys and hello to Tod :)
Nice information on bow history! That said, of course arrows would penetrate chainmail. Chainmail was best for protection against slashing. Its success, especially in regards to protecting from penetration, would depend on a myriad of factors, including riveted or not, linkage type, weave density, ring thickness, and the material used. Even when protected, the wearer could still suffer injury like serious bruising and fractures. Thus, a gambeson was a good idea.
Unexpected Tod and Joe episode! Excellent!
Ray Mears is a living legend.
Wasn't chainmail always worn with padded armour underneath it though. Sure I read something about crusaders returning to camp and realising they had arrows stuck in their backs that had passed the chainmail but were stopped by the padding. We would be talking Saracen horse back archers with recurve bows here though.
Yeah it's kind of hard to believe because so many tests are very flawed. I think Cult of Athena did a great job on the test on mail because they put it on a dummy that flexes like a person and not on a solid wooden target.
The difference is huge on the test. They put crappy riveted mail on crappy padding jacket on the dummy that flexes like a person and the mail & padding was able to even stop full thrust spear!!!! Not just one thrust but multiple!!!! Why? Because the dummy moves like a person and it naturally rolls with the hits not letting all the energy get transferred to that point unlike a solid target.
Look it up here on RUclips. Type in "Cult of Athena chainmail test" or something like that and you'll find videos on it. Is extremely surprising how chainmail stops all these weapons when a test is done very properly.
People need to keep in mind a human being is not a solid steel pole or tree, a human flexes and moves around, when the body's hit it will naturally fall back at least a little bit thus not letting all the energy transfer to the point.
Allways amazing to see joe Gibbs do his thing ...respect joe and todd
It would be interesting to compare the results of the saxon and the norman arrows. With their wider blades and the lack of the supporting ridge, I think the norman arrow would have a much harder time penetrating mail armour.
"Oh gosh I really couldn’t guys…"
Nails the first one in the heart..
Ray "Humble" Mears strikes again. Love it.
would been nice to see a more viking looking bow without horn nocks, and with deflex tips of extra weight
Did the Saxons have the yew warbow?
From what I learnt about early Saxons they looked down on the bow as a cowardly weapon, yet no one would go to battle without some.
Was the chain mail butted or riveted? Maybe I missed something, but that seems to be an important point (much more so than the metallurgy of the arrow point or the chain mail).
"Not sure if i can pull this one, it's been so long"
Shoots the arrow straight into a lung then another one in the heart
Tell Ray Mear's to start his own youtube channel. I need him in my life again.
When I see Joe Gibbs and Tod from Todds workshop. Just know it's going to be great.
Based on my observations of several such videos, I have noticed that the difference between medium-armor (chain and tunic) vs heavy armor (chainmail under platemail) is such a vast chasm against arrows, if only because plate mail seems to affect the angular momentum of projectiles, while chain mail does nothing to redirect the force of these blows.
Great to see Tod and Ray together!!
I remember when Ray gave one of these to a tribesmen in africa, Hadza I think. He said it was like a gun.
"Hah, that guy in the background has a Tod Cutler t shirt on, neat... wait, hang on!"
I love the fact that for probably some 20,000 years pointy stick was the pinnacle of fighting technology.
We're squishy bags with delicate valuable bits inside, prodding that is the pinnacle of killing if you have a single target.
How wonderful to see you and Tod together!
Glad to hear Tod mentioning that we don't know what draw weight they were using as there is no historical evidence to what draw weight the english bows were right through the weapons use for warfare.
Happy to see Ray is still doing well for himself
One thing about the Saxon warbow is that it's not really mentioned at the battle of hastings. Norman archers are mentioned. But Saxon archers arent. They're not even mentioned,or shown,during the annual battle of hastings reenactment
The Gambeson would resist the Arrows + bludgeoning, the Mail would resist slashing! You guys only had the Mail here...where was the Gambeson?!?!
*At least you guys didn't use Butted Mail....so I'll give you a thumbs up for that much....
Shout out to Danilo 'Tod' Todeschini from Tod's Workshop and professional archer Joe Gibbs, thank you for all your great work! I love Tod's Workshop. I wish that you had backed up progressively to see at what range maille began to be effective. Also was that maille typical of the Conquest period? Just as bow drawweights increased overtime maille quality increased overtime to counter it.
Apache arrows with just fire hardened wood heads pierced Spanish C16th mail. That's as primitive arrowheads v the latest most developed mail.
@@2bingtim Seems surprising and unlikely. Source? Aztec atlatls with obsidian heads definitely pierced Spanish armor so knapped stone or perhaps antler heads seems much more likely.
@@leoscheibelhut940 Hi Leo sorry for the delay. It was chronicled by the original sources for both the 1540-43 Coronado & 1539-42 De Soto Spanish expeditions when mail was at the apogee of develpoment. All that's needed is for the arrow to push through one lik, break it & the arrow passes through. It was a range of Indian nations they passed though & found it rather than just Apaches as I'd supposed. Indian arrows from their bows were found capable of shooting through two mail shirts placed together, so 4 layers of mail, with hardwood heads alone.
Sources:
pages 14-16 American Indian Archey by Reginald & Gladys Laubin, University of Oklahoma press 1980
Origonally- Narratives of the Career of Hernando de Soto by Edward G Bourne, Barnes NY 1904
& The Coronado Expedition 1540-42 by George P Winship, Fourteenth annual report of the Bureau of American Ethnology, Government Printing Office Washington DC 1896
Also page 168, Longbow by Robert Hardy, PSL, 3rd ed 1996
@@2bingtim Thank you for your reply. I look forward to reading the original sources!
Glad to see Tod around, great guy
Also: "I'll have to reacquaint me with archery" > first shot hit the heart. Ooook. Lol.
Ray Mears is a legend
Good to see a man of Ray Mears upstanding and calibre on this show
I have two small complains, First - chain mail seems to me like large diameter of the rings, which I do not see as a common mail in that period (but they are riveted which is most important), this allows to arrow penetrate rings easier, but second complain is the distance. This distance you tried is quite reasonable contact distance, but soldiers had usually large shields etc, but what about larger distances? I am more interested in longer distances when arrow is loosing lot of kinetic forces, and I would like to know, if it remains still enough force to broke you bone or something even "lethal". Long distance shooting "balistic trajectory" was also part of the history, and I am still unable to find some clear evidence about effectivity of Bows in such conditions against mail.
I know that its definitively not easy to reproduce something like that due to large inacuracy on larger distances like 100yards.
Great video!! Full disclosure, I started watching hoping for an opinion to add to the ones I have gotten from Tod’s channel and boom! There he is!!! 😂 Been focused on late medieval, but MAN does this make me want to do a deeper dive into the earlier period!!!!
The sight of Tod and Joe shooting at the start was a comforting sight. I remember an episode from the history channel where they explained the goeiendag but the weapon wasn''t even close to resembling one.
Ray Mears (fan sinces Tracks) and Tod in the same video? Bliss!
9:30 moral of the story, don’t mess with Mears (he’s a really nice guy, Woodlore 1995)
Nice to see Ray on the tube.
I would like to point out that it looks like the mail doesn't have any padding beneath it. Now I'm no expert on Saxon armor specifically, but I do know that mail is supposed to have padding beneath it.
That said, I can't imagine that the end result would be much different with how deep that arrow goes and the fact that we have records of a king dying to an arrow.
Ray Mears is such a good presenter!
It would be awesome if you could post full episodes, the link to this full episode is completely dead
Mail still had its advantages, in fact initial engagement would be much further out and an overlayment of armor, metal or leather, would contribute to saving the target. The attacker would attempt to push the archers to deplete their magazine of arrows. It the archers were behind or protected by infantry, they would be shooting at further distance.
mail was much more advantages against bladed weapons than piercing.
Ray is an amazing shot, wow
New level of respect for Ray, like you sort of no his background but he seems a really nice steady dude them boom .... two arrows to the chest.
Ray Mears, as polite as he is lethal
I was almost expecting some diatribe from some sudo-intellectual.
It was a relief to see Todd and Joe on the screen!
I'm a simple man, I see Ray mears I click 👀
Big fan of Ray Mears, glad to see him here!
It would be interesting to see the penetration capabilities at typical battlefield volley distances instead of point-blank but yea, for sure, if you’re super close to an archer might have your shield up…..
Ray despite his nerves at the start, still looked like formidable pro with the bow.
That was AWESOME! Thanks so much
Glad you liked it!
For starters; Tod says that the draw weight of bows in the 11th century was about 70 pounds - but offers NO evidence to support that claim. By early Tudor times, commentators of the day were complaining that English archers were not as powerful as their fathers and grandfathers were - yet what was the typical draw weight of arrows salvaged for the Tudor ship, the 'Mary Rose'? About *140* pounds! That being the case, I can see NO reason to assume that 11th century archers, who practised from boyhood, could only pull a draw weight used by modern re-enactors who do archery as a hobby. After all, those archers had every reason to work up to the heaviest bow possible, giving them maximum killing range - not only when hunting for the pot, but even more so when in a battle, knowing that your life depended on it.
Secondly, military archers would NOT have used hunting arrows in battle! Fletchers made as big a variety of arrows back then as modern car tyre makers make today, suiting the product to its intended use. And what arrow was purpose-made for use against chain mail?
The long bodkin. A long and finely tapered arrow, the fine tip easily entering the loops of chain mail, and the long narrow taper bursting the ring open by a wedging action, enabling deep penetration.
The thing that has always somewhat amazed me is that ancient peoples scattered across the world developed this genius device independently. Whatever caused them to stretch a sinew across a stick, and imagine it sending a deadly projectile - also needing invention? To realize that feathers would stabilize the flight of that object? To calculate the proper ratio of length/thickness and wood type for power? Incredible.
it is a paradox
People even as far back as the stone ages often took long journeys even up to hundreds/thousands of miles; IMO it would be far more likely for an ancestor to the concept to be developed once, used to spectacular millitary effect and then spread far and wide as everyone realised that not having a bow put you at a potential disadvantage both in hunting and defending yourself/your homeland. If hundreds of thousands of people are all making rough approximations of an idea over many generations, there's bound to be a lot of variation and then people copying the successful variations until the skill is refined enough for some to do so professionally and then generations of innovations later we get something that seems impossible to invent on its own.
Given that even the isolated Easter Islands were colonised by ancient humans, we'd do well not to undestimate their ability and will to travel.
Same is true of the Atlatl. Developed independently in many parts of the world
Love Uncle Ray. But meeting Todd is just a match made in heaven.
Where can the full episodes be seen? I need them BAD
Show 'em who's boss Ray. Two shots to the heart!
I miss Ray being on our TV screens
Nice one,this needs to be longer though.
Ray loves his archery.
5:35 A fine example of a medieval snitch.
At least some of the power in a drawn long bow is used to accelerate the limbs of the bow. How strong a modern double action bow would be needed to get the same 'muzzle velocity' with a heavy war arrow.
Perfect. Ray Mears and History, always a joy.
Joe didn't really get an introduction in the video but then again, I doubt he needs one at this point. Anyone who is into medieval archery probably knows of Joe at the very least.
I never realized how strong you had to be to sling arrows like that.
You dint have to be that strong for 60 to 70#. It is more about the technique.
Yeah IRL archery is quite physically demanding. Not many complete novices can even pull back a 30lb bow until they learn the correct technique
@@Joker-yw9hl mmm, nah 30lbs is EASY, even for beginners
@@chrismccaffrey8256 Depends on the technique. If you draw only enough to release the arrow with a bit of force you need much less energy than drawing to your cheek. I´ve seen a lot of novices drawing the bow to their chest where only about half of the draw length is utilised and therefore about half the strength is needed.
What happens when the target is wearing a gambeson underneath? or when the chainmail is rivited, I can't see if it is
Love these. Please continue.
I wonder if people noticed the shorter bow that you see on the tapestry. Because I think this type of bow was way more common but I never saw someone cover this type. Does anyone know more about this?
I guess real battlefield has lots of changing factors. The distance here is so short that it is a matter of seconds when the footsoldiers reach the archers. The arrows hit quite direct angle to torso but arrow hit to sides may not pierce mail. Weaker mail and better arrow tip gives different result than better quality armor against bad arrows. I have seen many times armors where soldier has chain mail underneath and plate mail covering chest. It was like today… arms race.
I found a 4,000 year old chert barbed and tanged arrowhead in a potato field. A beautifully made object although I often wonder how annoyed its original owner must have been at losing it.
It would be nice if they specified what kind of metal the mail was or if it was hardened or not.
Enjoyed it! Thanks
Tod is a good watch on this platform.
If Ray was at the Battle of Hastings , William would have run away
The end is great and important, because you then realize that the archers of the era would have done this for a living. Either for hunting or for regular military training. And very likely both. I'm not as big an expert into this side of history, but I understand the English were requiring their people to have regular events, tournaments for archery, so as to keep their skills sharpened even if they were not at war.