It seems like railroads are shooting themselves in the foot here by all of the hoops you have to jump through. No wonder most companies opt to ship by truck.
The problem I faced was the engineering guys at the Class One had their own mandate they marched to. It was not to attract business or grow revenue. It was to make sure company track standards were protected - and they were continually upping the standards, making track installation more and more expensive and the process more cumbersome. The whole process could easily take over a year.
As one of those MOW engineering types that has worked both on behalf of a shipper and on behalf of the railroad, I have seen both sides of this fence. Like a lot of human endeavors it often comes down to the personalities of those involved.
@@ffjsbwhen l unloaded boxcars back in the 70s, 90% of Chesapeake and Ohio was individual freight car customers. Except for grain elevators that is. Times have changed.
I had no idea that it would take so much effort and planning to put in a railroad spur to an industrial customer. Thank you for giving us railfans this information. (Posted 223 August 2024 at 2329 CDT.)
If only you knew how much effort it takes to start a museum railway in Sweden. We restored 600m of track which included replacing most sleepers and getting the track straight and level. Even then that was only half the work, the other part was buerocracy and we are not even connected to any other railway.
Im in finance and it's generally a huge selling point if a company has rail access on site, and I never knew why since I assumed laying such a short distance of track wouldn't be that expensive in the scheme of things (vs. buying a plant or company). But man, I get it now. Regardless of cost, this is a way more onerous process than I would have imagined.
It would kill me when a company with a rail spur would go out of business and sell their site to someone that had no need to do rail and it was torn up. They are so few and far between and it costs so much to put it back.
@@killerbee6310 I live by the Raritan River in NJ, there's a Home Depot warehouse that tore up a ton of track from an old scrap yard I grew up watching work. Spur right off the NJ coast line and not far from Port Newark, where dozens of trucks drive from each day instead now. Real shame, especially since conrail shared assets works right in that area too
The first step is actually to determine if the Class I railroads are even interested in serving a new industry and quoting a rate that makes economic sense to ship by rail. In this day and age (2024) Class I roads are known to quote rates that make single carload traffic with minimal volumes almost out of reach.
What about working with Class 3 railroads that are much more small customer interested? There are stories that back in the 1950s a hardware store could order a railroad car load of bagged animal feed. It was very variable on how long it might be before it arrived 4 days to 2 weeks. When it arrive it was much less expensive than shipping by truck And the railroad was OK with letting the car sit on team tracks while the hardware store sold the product out of it! It not clear who owned the railroad freight car. The store didn't have to load the product into its own store. People have asked the hardware store. "Didn't you have problems with people just helping themselves without paying?" The store said they never had that happen. This was the common way to move large items across the USA.
YES!! I have worked on many projects where it was just assumed the rail rate would work. We would get all through a project and almost as an afterthought the potential customer would get his rate...and find out it didn't work for him, negating all our time and efforts. I learned to insist they get their rate first.
@@cdavid8139most Class 3 railroads have a close working relationship with their Class 1 partner. It is in their mutual interest to gain and retain customers. Class 3 railroads handle the “last mile” transport and customer switching that the big railroads don’t want because it is not efficient for them to perform those services. A well run Class 3 can efficiency pull cars from interchange, make deliveries, and return empties either to interchange or to temporary storage. The Class 3 railroad can usually get preferential rates as opposed to a small customer trying to negotiate directly with a class 1 railroad.
Keep it up, this series is really like nothing else on youtube. Instead of telling us random info about locomotives you are actually talking about how railroads work! I will say the short line I am familiar with does directly design and build its own new spurs, but I guess this is more related to class 1 railroads or bigger companies.
RR will occasionally offer a Side Track Ageement with customer reducing the rate on originating shipments for a period of time to basically reimburse the customer for the cost of the side track. Further, if the customer fails to handle some minimum number of cars annually, RR may charge a maintenance fee on the main line turnout - usually around $2,000 per year per main line turn out.
Where I live there was an elevator that was one of the final customers on the line. Grand Trunk Western put on a 1200 “surcharge” on each car and squeezed them out of business. Brutal.
Soo Line did the same thing on ultra light density branch lines a number of years ago. One the one hand it does not encourage business...but on the other hand, when traffic is sooo lite that you only run a train infrequently, you have a number of costs to recover you don't on lines with more frequent service.
Yeah, even if it's bad track, it's a hell of a lot cheaper to fix than building brand new track. I'm right off of an industrial spur and it's big money to install a switch, cross the corner of my neighbor's property, and build maybe 1/8 mile of track
@@Jleed989then just turn it into a loop around your property and buy a switcher locomotive so you now have your own Full Scale model railroading layout 😂
Excellent video, very informative, thank you. 👍Can you please do a video on what it takes to reactivate an existing old spur line that leads to a warehouse or other industrial facility.
Well, it wouldn't be much - all you do really is contract with a track contractor to do the rehab. You can skip some of the earlier steps in this video. Once the track is rehabbed, the railroad track inspector comes and looks at it and hopefully OK's it for service...or advises what still has to be corrected. If no ITA is in place, one should be done. Thank you for commenting.
@@killerbee6310 How does a track inspector know if everything is okay? Does he use high tech tools? Does he just eye ball things? Is it a long process? I'm excited about this. I'll check out your other videos.
Class 1's aren't interested in small customers. They'll either try to get you to locate on a connecting short line ,or use a BIDS terminal or local team track area. If those aren't available, they'll make it so expensive, you'll truck it.
Straightforward and to the point and should certainly dispel any myths. I can still remember all the ads even into the early seventies for industrial park development. A friend of mine worked for two RR building contractors and indeed sidings or small spurs were the mainstay in the 1970s. Today the one is out of business and the other one has taken on much larger projects such as transload facilities or a large agricultural plant and even Shortline upgrading. In the past 10 years perhaps 3 new sidings have been built in Milwaukee wheras about 10 have been disconnected or pulled up. Amazingly the smallest rail customer that gets about two cars a year lucks out on the UP as where they are located is a popular parking spot for UP MOW equipment and their site is at least 5 MI from the nearest siding that could be used for that purpose. A lot of preparatory work before that first shovel full of dirt is turned .
Having a spur where MofW ties up is a blessing and a curse. I was aware of a number of complaints during my years when MofW would tie up in a customer track and that would prevent the train from serving them. When it was tri-weekly service, it hurt.
@@chrisstromberg6527 I do not agree with increase. I will agree to 'continuation'. The "mindset these days" has been a mindset for years. The number of customer abandonments by Conrail was staggering. Carload customers, whenever it made sense, were either moved to transload or sold to shortlines. There are of course thousands of exceptions, but all of this was well underway far before PSR.
You would have to acquire the land and have it zoned. Once that is completed you would have to spend the $1 million per mile (or more) to get it put in. The switch leading to the spur would have to be negotiated and the railroad convinced there was a need to put it there. Probably would need a traffic commitment.
Biggest difference between Branch and Spur trackage is a Spur is not a common carrier railroad. A common carrier railroad has its railroad corridor's real estate under federal eminent domain. Spur trackage is similar to a private road driveway under the local State's eminent domain that delegates to the local counties and towns. Spur trackage will have to go through the local permitting process the same as other building permits and is not considered maintenance of way as are all activaties related to the operation the common carrier railroad in its railroad corridors. Spur trackage is subject to local ordnances including local stormwater management which means it will likely need to have stormwater management retaining ponds. Common carrier railroads have to address local concerns, but there are no county or town permitting agencies with legal authority. Spur trackage land is subject to being condemned and taken by the local government under state eminent domain. Spur trackage is unlikely to own the real estate at a road crossing, but is on an easement. The opposite is the case with common carrier railroads. It is common practice more so in the past than now when the the word "railroad" is used by itself with no other modifier such as "electric" it means common carrier railroad with its railroad corridor land being under federal eminent domain. When in college my friend John Carrier said there was a notable non common carrier railroad for a single firm that was 200 miles long in the mid west, so it is possible, but there needs to be a continues pro local governments along the right-of-way to make that a viable situation.
There was (until 2019) the Black Mesa and Lake Powell in Arizona which moved coal 78 miles from mine to power plant...I believe they were not a common carrier. Can't think of who your 200-mile midwestern non common carrier was.
A "spur track" can be railroad owned. The definition of a "Spur" has nothing to do with ownership. Look it up. The overwhelming vast majority of railroad right of ways in North America were not acquired under eminent domain. They were purchased legally and under railroad ownership from the time they were built without the use of eminent domain to acquire the land. The definition of eminent domain is the government's ability to force private entities to sell land. While that happens with railroads (or Walmarts or Mining Operations) it is by no means the norm.
@@cdavid8139 "Spur" has several uses, of course. I was using it as "spur" to be synonymous with a track serving an industry. Then there is "Spur" which has different usages but in the terminology I am used to, is a length of non-main track in the employee timetable, usually but not necessarily a former Subdivision whose status was down-graded. And I have seen STB decisions use the term "spur".
@@killerbee6310 I was responding to Douglas's points on the definition of 'spur' and 'eminent domain'. No issues with your video. You do a great job of simplifying complex rail issues for the casual viewer
I doubt most people could even get to the point of considering having a track put in. My railroad has turned down several potential customers due to not wanting the work. They will not put on additional jobs to service customers.
Another interesting point. I often had this discussion with the in house legal counsel - could we refuse a request for a switch installation? I was always told a railroad could not unreasonably withhold switch installation. But of course the potential customer has to know that and be willing to challenge.
This may seem like a lot of work paid for by the customer, but few new rail-served customers generate enough traffic to justify the railroad doing the pickups and drop offs. Most rail customers will drive their loads to an intermodal terminal.
This whole process seems like a nightmare for the rail customer, and it doesn't seem to be a network growth strategy. Do shortlines and regional railroads have a different process that they usually pursue because they usually don't have the luxury to select only the most profitable routes across the country?
It is pretty much the same but kinder and gentler. For instance Watco sometimes will do the initial meeting with the customer and the initial track design plan, cutting out the track design firm.
Where I live in Victoria, I’ve seen new spur lines get installed and then never used and lie derelict. It’s like the company realize how expensive rail freight is and decide not to use it. I wondered if the rail provider can’t resist the urge to gouge again and again. The tendency is to provide a rail hub where several firms deliver goods by road to one point served by rail. The hub can be funded by the government. Presumably this holds down the costs by government mandate to control the rail company overcharging for rail freight.
Yes, when I used to tell customers they were basically on the hook for everything (track design, construction, mainline switch), they would often counter with "I thought you would want my business and do all this for me". I would then reply that we had examples of businesses that did all this at their expense, and still didn't ship a car. So we were not going to risk putting out all the time and money and have no one ship - the customer has to have some skin in the game.
@@killerbee6310 I have seen the same. I seriously think that at times the investment was a "what if" investment in the case rail was needed. In the meantime the customer used the existance of the rail siding to point to the truckers that an alternative exists and to keep the rates down. We installed a new siding into a 'box plant' only to see all traffic coming in moving in trucks. WIthout the siding the truckers could charge what they wanted.
@@cdavid8139 A few years ago I made that comment to the manager of a medium sized trucking company - that the existence of rail kept his rates down. He snickered. "It's all the other truckers that want my business that keeps my rates down. The railroad has nothing to do with it".
Why doesn’t someone file an antitrust lawsuit with the big railroads? I would assume having more companies all around the place would make managing things easier.
large rail customers with access to the huge legal feels that would be required have tried it with mixed success. No real point for small rail customers to even attempt it (if there were grounds)
Because like every other mega corporation, they have money, and they can buy politicians. You think any Democrat or Republican is gonna pass a bill to break up UP, CPKC, CN, or Con-Agra, Perdue, ADM, or Exxon, BP, etc, etc..... Name any MegaCorp and I guarantee you that they have contributed handsomely to your favorite politician.
@@chrisstromberg6527 I may not disagree with your point, but why should the Class I railroads be 'broken up'? What is the advantage to the customer if BNSF was broken into two (or three) operations?
Yes, the railroad business development (aka salesman) advice is free. It's also for the benefit of the railroad, not yourself. That's why people pay insurance brokers, real estate agents, lawyers, and yes consultants.
A real patriot: refusing to hire American workers and instead relying on wage slavery of the most desperate people on earth, all the while sucking up all the profits for yourself.
@@killerbee6310 Especially after said (poorly trained) driver causes an accident which kills several people. Then @notlisted-cl5ls loses their business and quite possibly goes to jail ... Anyone irresponsible enough to hire unqualified truck drivers deserves what they get.
It seems like railroads are shooting themselves in the foot here by all of the hoops you have to jump through. No wonder most companies opt to ship by truck.
The problem I faced was the engineering guys at the Class One had their own mandate they marched to. It was not to attract business or grow revenue. It was to make sure company track standards were protected - and they were continually upping the standards, making track installation more and more expensive and the process more cumbersome. The whole process could easily take over a year.
That's what the shipping container is for to get rid of these extra expenses....railways well most class1s own their own chassis's
As one of those MOW engineering types that has worked both on behalf of a shipper and on behalf of the railroad, I have seen both sides of this fence. Like a lot of human endeavors it often comes down to the personalities of those involved.
Rail freight is best suited to bulk transport, not individual carloads. Especially if they don't get regular shipments.
@@ffjsbwhen l unloaded boxcars back in the 70s, 90% of Chesapeake and Ohio was individual freight car customers. Except for grain elevators that is. Times have changed.
I had no idea that it would take so much effort and planning to put in a railroad spur to an industrial customer. Thank you for giving us railfans this information. (Posted 223 August 2024 at 2329 CDT.)
Ya, the whole process from start to finish can take a year...plus in the north you have winter holding up track construction for awhile.
Thank you for the railroad business videos!
It’s very fascinating to understand why the tracks are where they are and why the trains move as they do.
If only you knew how much effort it takes to start a museum railway in Sweden. We restored 600m of track which included replacing most sleepers and getting the track straight and level. Even then that was only half the work, the other part was buerocracy and we are not even connected to any other railway.
Im in finance and it's generally a huge selling point if a company has rail access on site, and I never knew why since I assumed laying such a short distance of track wouldn't be that expensive in the scheme of things (vs. buying a plant or company). But man, I get it now. Regardless of cost, this is a way more onerous process than I would have imagined.
It would kill me when a company with a rail spur would go out of business and sell their site to someone that had no need to do rail and it was torn up. They are so few and far between and it costs so much to put it back.
@@killerbee6310 I live by the Raritan River in NJ, there's a Home Depot warehouse that tore up a ton of track from an old scrap yard I grew up watching work. Spur right off the NJ coast line and not far from Port Newark, where dozens of trucks drive from each day instead now.
Real shame, especially since conrail shared assets works right in that area too
The first step is actually to determine if the Class I railroads are even interested in serving a new industry and quoting a rate that makes economic sense to ship by rail. In this day and age (2024) Class I roads are known to quote rates that make single carload traffic with minimal volumes almost out of reach.
What about working with Class 3 railroads that are much more small customer interested?
There are stories that back in the 1950s a hardware store could order a railroad car load of bagged animal feed. It was very variable on how long it might be before it arrived 4 days to 2 weeks. When it arrive it was much less expensive than shipping by truck And the railroad was OK with letting the car sit on team tracks while the hardware store sold the product out of it! It not clear who owned the railroad freight car. The store didn't have to load the product into its own store.
People have asked the hardware store. "Didn't you have problems with people just helping themselves without paying?" The store said they never had that happen. This was the common way to move large items across the USA.
YES!! I have worked on many projects where it was just assumed the rail rate would work. We would get all through a project and almost as an afterthought the potential customer would get his rate...and find out it didn't work for him, negating all our time and efforts. I learned to insist they get their rate first.
@@douglasengle2704 The problem with the Class 3 railroad is that they are also dependent on the Class I quoting a rate that works.
@@cdavid8139most Class 3 railroads have a close working relationship with their Class 1 partner. It is in their mutual interest to gain and retain customers. Class 3 railroads handle the “last mile” transport and customer switching that the big railroads don’t want because it is not efficient for them to perform those services. A well run Class 3 can efficiency pull cars from interchange, make deliveries, and return empties either to interchange or to temporary storage.
The Class 3 railroad can usually get preferential rates as opposed to a small customer trying to negotiate directly with a class 1 railroad.
Keep it up, this series is really like nothing else on youtube. Instead of telling us random info about locomotives you are actually talking about how railroads work! I will say the short line I am familiar with does directly design and build its own new spurs, but I guess this is more related to class 1 railroads or bigger companies.
Yes, some short lines will indeed do industrial track design for potential customers. Even then, I know one is considering charging for the service.
RR will occasionally offer a Side Track Ageement with customer reducing the rate on originating shipments for a period of time to basically reimburse the customer for the cost of the side track. Further, if the customer fails to handle some minimum number of cars annually, RR may charge a maintenance fee on the main line turnout - usually around $2,000 per year per main line turn out.
Where I live there was an elevator that was one of the final customers on the line. Grand Trunk Western put on a 1200 “surcharge” on each car and squeezed them out of business. Brutal.
All valid points, yes. Thank you.
Soo Line did the same thing on ultra light density branch lines a number of years ago. One the one hand it does not encourage business...but on the other hand, when traffic is sooo lite that you only run a train infrequently, you have a number of costs to recover you don't on lines with more frequent service.
I worked for a lumber company and we had our own spur into the yard. We had to pay for all the spur maintenance.
Yep - sounds right.
Always happy to receive your wisdom from these videos Brian!
And always happy to receive validation that people like them!
Moral of the story ?
Buy industrial property that still has track !
Yeah, even if it's bad track, it's a hell of a lot cheaper to fix than building brand new track. I'm right off of an industrial spur and it's big money to install a switch, cross the corner of my neighbor's property, and build maybe 1/8 mile of track
And how can you be sure that the rail road won’t abandon the line leaving you stuck? If this was the 80s, that would be a real possibility
@@Jleed989then just turn it into a loop around your property and buy a switcher locomotive so you now have your own Full Scale model railroading layout 😂
@@Jleed989 Even now, that's a real possibility
Excellent video, very informative, thank you. 👍Can you please do a video on what it takes to reactivate an existing old spur line that leads to a warehouse or other industrial facility.
Well, it wouldn't be much - all you do really is contract with a track contractor to do the rehab. You can skip some of the earlier steps in this video. Once the track is rehabbed, the railroad track inspector comes and looks at it and hopefully OK's it for service...or advises what still has to be corrected. If no ITA is in place, one should be done. Thank you for commenting.
@@killerbee6310 Ah, thank you very much!
@@killerbee6310 How does a track inspector know if everything is okay? Does he use high tech tools? Does he just eye ball things? Is it a long process?
I'm excited about this. I'll check out your other videos.
Class 1's aren't interested in small customers. They'll either try to get you to locate on a connecting short line ,or use a BIDS terminal or local team track area. If those aren't available, they'll make it so expensive, you'll truck it.
That’s lean manufacturing for you, only the RRs call it PSR.
Straightforward and to the point and should certainly dispel any myths. I can still remember all the ads even into the early seventies for industrial park development. A friend of mine worked for two RR building contractors and indeed sidings or small spurs were the mainstay in the 1970s. Today the one is out of business and the other one has taken on much larger projects such as transload facilities or a large agricultural plant and even Shortline upgrading. In the past 10 years perhaps 3 new sidings have been built in Milwaukee wheras about 10 have been disconnected or pulled up. Amazingly the smallest rail customer that gets about two cars a year lucks out on the UP as where they are located is a popular parking spot for UP MOW equipment and their site is at least 5 MI from the nearest siding that could be used for that purpose. A lot of preparatory work before that first shovel full of dirt is turned
.
Having a spur where MofW ties up is a blessing and a curse. I was aware of a number of complaints during my years when MofW would tie up in a customer track and that would prevent the train from serving them. When it was tri-weekly service, it hurt.
Another great wealth of information!
Ahhh...thank you sir.
I believe that BNSF avoids as much as possible installing a switch in a curve.
Nobody likes to and avoids it as much as possible.
@@killerbee6310 Why?
Geometryyyyyy 😵💫😵💫😵💫@@marioxerxescastelancastro8019
😂😂😂They would have to do math.😂😂😂@@marioxerxescastelancastro8019
@@marioxerxescastelancastro8019probably the uneven wear of the frog,stock and running rails.
1950-90 St Paul MN had 9 r.r.in MSP...spurs every 5 blocks in city...75 yr old railfan,spurs were so 🆒 to walk/investigate....my best memories 👍👍
Yes indeed, and pretty much everywhere else too.
Really enjoying your channel. Glad you showed up!
Well thank you - as I am glad you found it.
Got it. Throw some gravel down and use trucks. Up in running in a few days.
Yep, sad but true.
Very informative! Thx!
And thank you for the comment.
East Terminal Railroad attempted a spur as storage, lots of red tape
I always say short line railroading is not for the faint of heart
I thought in order to get a spur track you had to give CSX your first born child , great grand children and the bones of an Alco C415.
and half a million in cash
@@killerbee6310hah
With PSR some railroads dont want to be 'bothered' with low volume clients.
Entirely different mindset these days.
This mindset was in place years (decades) before PSR.
@@cdavid8139 Maybe so, but there is no doubt that PSR has led to an increase in this type of behavior by railroads.
@@chrisstromberg6527 I do not agree with increase. I will agree to 'continuation'. The "mindset these days" has been a mindset for years. The number of customer abandonments by Conrail was staggering. Carload customers, whenever it made sense, were either moved to transload or sold to shortlines. There are of course thousands of exceptions, but all of this was well underway far before PSR.
Pretty crazy someone made a video about this. I made those rr-ind templates working for Canadian pacific as an intern.
Never know what you will come across on RUclips....
What if I want a railroad spur going right to my garage in a random suburban neighborhood? :D
Anything is possible with enough money-LOL
You would have to acquire the land and have it zoned. Once that is completed you would have to spend the $1 million per mile (or more) to get it put in. The switch leading to the spur would have to be negotiated and the railroad convinced there was a need to put it there. Probably would need a traffic commitment.
@@cdavid8139 Hmm...I don't think I quite have "personal train" money.
Biggest difference between Branch and Spur trackage is a Spur is not a common carrier railroad. A common carrier railroad has its railroad corridor's real estate under federal eminent domain. Spur trackage is similar to a private road driveway under the local State's eminent domain that delegates to the local counties and towns.
Spur trackage will have to go through the local permitting process the same as other building permits and is not considered maintenance of way as are all activaties related to the operation the common carrier railroad in its railroad corridors.
Spur trackage is subject to local ordnances including local stormwater management which means it will likely need to have stormwater management retaining ponds. Common carrier railroads have to address local concerns, but there are no county or town permitting agencies with legal authority.
Spur trackage land is subject to being condemned and taken by the local government under state eminent domain. Spur trackage is unlikely to own the real estate at a road crossing, but is on an easement. The opposite is the case with common carrier railroads.
It is common practice more so in the past than now when the the word "railroad" is used by itself with no other modifier such as "electric" it means common carrier railroad with its railroad corridor land being under federal eminent domain.
When in college my friend John Carrier said there was a notable non common carrier railroad for a single firm that was 200 miles long in the mid west, so it is possible, but there needs to be a continues pro local governments along the right-of-way to make that a viable situation.
There was (until 2019) the Black Mesa and Lake Powell in Arizona which moved coal 78 miles from mine to power plant...I believe they were not a common carrier. Can't think of who your 200-mile midwestern non common carrier was.
A "spur track" can be railroad owned. The definition of a "Spur" has nothing to do with ownership. Look it up. The overwhelming vast majority of railroad right of ways in North America were not acquired under eminent domain. They were purchased legally and under railroad ownership from the time they were built without the use of eminent domain to acquire the land. The definition of eminent domain is the government's ability to force private entities to sell land. While that happens with railroads (or Walmarts or Mining Operations) it is by no means the norm.
@@cdavid8139 "Spur" has several uses, of course. I was using it as "spur" to be synonymous with a track serving an industry. Then there is "Spur" which has different usages but in the terminology I am used to, is a length of non-main track in the employee timetable, usually but not necessarily a former Subdivision whose status was down-graded. And I have seen STB decisions use the term "spur".
@@killerbee6310 I was responding to Douglas's points on the definition of 'spur' and 'eminent domain'. No issues with your video. You do a great job of simplifying complex rail issues for the casual viewer
@@cdavid8139 Ahhh - gotcha. And thank you.
I doubt most people could even get to the point of considering having a track put in. My railroad has turned down several potential customers due to not wanting the work. They will not put on additional jobs to service customers.
Another interesting point. I often had this discussion with the in house legal counsel - could we refuse a request for a switch installation? I was always told a railroad could not unreasonably withhold switch installation. But of course the potential customer has to know that and be willing to challenge.
Why not buy one or two smaller shunting locos and have them do the dirty work?
@@nordlawt8242 are you asking why the customers don’t get locomotives or why railroads don’t send small ones?
I’ve always been interested in spur tracks since I was a kid. Thanks, this was very informative. Never thought I would ever learn this 🤣
Ahh good - glad to realize some unfilled childhood dreams !!
This may seem like a lot of work paid for by the customer, but few new rail-served customers generate enough traffic to justify the railroad doing the pickups and drop offs. Most rail customers will drive their loads to an intermodal terminal.
Yes, unfortunately this prices the smaller potential shippers out of the market.
This whole process seems like a nightmare for the rail customer, and it doesn't seem to be a network growth strategy. Do shortlines and regional railroads have a different process that they usually pursue because they usually don't have the luxury to select only the most profitable routes across the country?
It is pretty much the same but kinder and gentler. For instance Watco sometimes will do the initial meeting with the customer and the initial track design plan, cutting out the track design firm.
Where I live in Victoria, I’ve seen new spur lines get installed and then never used and lie derelict. It’s like the company realize how expensive rail freight is and decide not to use it.
I wondered if the rail provider can’t resist the urge to gouge again and again.
The tendency is to provide a rail hub where several firms deliver goods by road to one point served by rail. The hub can be funded by the government.
Presumably this holds down the costs by government mandate to control the rail company overcharging for rail freight.
Yes, when I used to tell customers they were basically on the hook for everything (track design, construction, mainline switch), they would often counter with "I thought you would want my business and do all this for me". I would then reply that we had examples of businesses that did all this at their expense, and still didn't ship a car. So we were not going to risk putting out all the time and money and have no one ship - the customer has to have some skin in the game.
@@killerbee6310 I have seen the same. I seriously think that at times the investment was a "what if" investment in the case rail was needed. In the meantime the customer used the existance of the rail siding to point to the truckers that an alternative exists and to keep the rates down. We installed a new siding into a 'box plant' only to see all traffic coming in moving in trucks. WIthout the siding the truckers could charge what they wanted.
@@cdavid8139 A few years ago I made that comment to the manager of a medium sized trucking company - that the existence of rail kept his rates down. He snickered. "It's all the other truckers that want my business that keeps my rates down. The railroad has nothing to do with it".
@@killerbee6310 I'm sure that's common too.
Thanks killer bee
My pleasure !!
It's cheaper now to find a warehouse connected to a track already.
We can practically rent them.🎉
Interesting, never knew a switch would be so expensive
All depends on how several factors line up....
Why doesn’t someone file an antitrust lawsuit with the big railroads? I would assume having more companies all around the place would make managing things easier.
large rail customers with access to the huge legal feels that would be required have tried it with mixed success. No real point for small rail customers to even attempt it (if there were grounds)
Because like every other mega corporation, they have money, and they can buy politicians. You think any Democrat or Republican is gonna pass a bill to break up UP, CPKC, CN, or Con-Agra, Perdue, ADM, or Exxon, BP, etc, etc..... Name any MegaCorp and I guarantee you that they have contributed handsomely to your favorite politician.
@@chrisstromberg6527 I may not disagree with your point, but why should the Class I railroads be 'broken up'? What is the advantage to the customer if BNSF was broken into two (or three) operations?
Know that rjcorman railroad company will do the job and most class 1roafs call them when tracks need rebuild or deraiment needs clean up
Lease or buy property that already has a spur. There are so many out there
Yes, the railroad business development (aka salesman) advice is free.
It's also for the benefit of the railroad, not yourself. That's why people pay insurance brokers, real estate agents, lawyers, and yes consultants.
half a million?
railroads truly do not want small jobs anymore
I want a spur right down the alley into my backyard! Imagine just waking up and looking out the kitchen window to see a locomotive squeezing through 😂
Anything can be done with enough money.
Most states require an environmental assessment and the issuance of a permit.
Indeed - this was the quickie version so as not to get too bogged down.
$100k for a simple switch? I'd build it myself.
What a loathsome process. I see the railroads are so flush with funds they don't want or need smaller customers.
It basically prices small customers out of having their own track - unless they can secure grants or funding.
Step one is by lube in bulk. because even if they want your business, they are going to screw you over on servicing you
Owww...a little harsh...but......
Fellow foamer friends?
Yes indeed. Welcome !!
@@killerbee6310 Most railfans aren't foamers. "Foamer" is a pejorative term for an extremely over-enthusiastic (and oblivious to that fact) railfan.
only 100,000 dollars !!!
That's cheap - everything is relative.
who needs trains anymore? i hire 3rd world truck drivers for pennies on the dollar.
Just remember - you get what you pay for - LOL
A real patriot: refusing to hire American workers and instead relying on wage slavery of the most desperate people on earth, all the while sucking up all the profits for yourself.
@@killerbee6310 Especially after said (poorly trained) driver causes an accident which kills several people. Then @notlisted-cl5ls loses their business and quite possibly goes to jail ... Anyone irresponsible enough to hire unqualified truck drivers deserves what they get.