Engineer 1: Yo what monitors do you have? Engineer 2: Yamaha HS8s, what about you? Engineer 1: Lexus ES300s, 1997 edition Engineer 2: Nice. My first were the Toyota Corolla '08s
I convert all my sound waves to high current AC electricity. Then i shove one electrode up my ass and the other down my throat. When i shit myself and cum at the same time i know I've achieved the perfect stereophonic mix!
...of course bro dude man... the neopherite graphene magnetizers induce the subbass phaze frequency inducers to expand the full potential of the mixband harmonics.
Nothing compared to my brain to daw interface. Just hear the raw mix one time and then, booom, the mix sounds like i imagine it to sound. Perfect. Flawless.
@@disliker222 I don't even need a DAW, I just look at the WAV files in binary with HEX editor and do the maths myself. I still use soundcards for recording though, I tried listening by ear and writing it to WAV files manually, but I cannot type the numbers in that fast. Yet.
It seems to me that the Yamaha's did the best job of letting you hear everything. At least, it seemed to me that minor bits, like pick attack, were clearly audible as opposed to muddy, indistinct, or inaudible in the other mixes. But I don't think one can do better than Kali's for three hundred bucks.
I felt like the Yamaha had overall more excitement in the mix and more height, I felt like i got a more honest sense of all the aspects of the piece. The KRK had a nice rounded bass and had a meatier, more gravely feel. I thought Kali had height but it felt more focused than the Yamaha. Nice
Icke unless you use a GOOD pair of headphones. And no, not the earbuds included in the smartphone box... Watching this on laptop with the built in speakers isn’t wisely too.
@@emiel333 True. For me buying a sound card was one of the best choices I made. For some reason my speakers sound better (logitech ones) and my headset sounds better, at least I feel like I have a bigger frequency response. You can definitely tell the difference. When I come back to mobile it seems it's missing certain frequencies. As for this video I prefer the Yamaha's result on the drums, and I think the Kali's made a better job on the sound of the guitar, especially on the rythm one
Pedro Silva A sound card definitely improves the fidelity for your equipment. Many studios also use headphone amplifiers. A good sound card (audio interface) is capable of 192kHz/24bit audio recording and latency free monitoring. They have build in pre amps and great AD/DA converters. Also the headphone and speaker output is way better in comparison to a pc or smartphone. That’s why you got this nice sound!!
The thing that most people aren't realizing is... When you say... These sounded darker... Or the high end in these sounded louder.... Is that the opposite is actually happening when mixing. If the highs sound louder.. That means that during the mixing process chances are the high end wasn't cutting through as much in those monitors so the engineer is compensating... Same with.."these ones sounded darker" which means there were more mids and highs coming through during the mix and the engineer pulled those frequencies. So it's not the monitors that sounded "dark" or "too bright".. It's actually the opposite. Something to keep in mind when choosing a monitor that's right for you.
Your point is inconsequential, though technically correct. Yes, the opposite of what we hear is happening as you suggest, causing certain frequencies to be emphasized or hidden so you want to choose the most neutral option where the highlighting of frequencies that does occur (as is inevitable) get's you as close to a finished sound as possible, that will translate across multiple systems.
Bang on. I reckon the KRK mix sounds the tubbiest and least clear in the mid range. That would make sense because they're so scooped. I mean, they make everything sound so good that it's hard to be objective, so I'd never buy KRK's except for funsies or DJ'ing (if I were a DJ).
Dude I’ve been mixing with my KRK Rokits (G5) for like 8 years now and love them! BUT (huh, huh, I said but)... I also dump the mix and listen to it in multiple sources, NOT JUST in my studio, but my car, headphones, and a variety of other sources. It’s the only way to truly test the mix.
That's one reason why you'll often see either "horrortones" (ie. Auratones / Avantone mixcubes), or some old "boombox" in studios, precisely for alternate monitoring, or as "average real-world" test-subjects, as it were.
@@KingCornWallis that's an easy problem to fix with youtube tutorials, and i never had that problem. after about a decade my volume slowly faded away to nothing on one of my first gen's, but that was with tons of use. i was watching movies and netflix on them! i found a used pair pretty cheap though!
also i've noticed myself and heard from others that the first gen Krk's are way better than the 2nd or 3rd gen's. This is a real thing. i'm blown away at how different a colleague of mine's 3rd gens sound. i can't imagine mixing on them.
also i think you mean rockit 5's in the original post. G is for generation in Krk's and they're aren't up to G5's yet! your monitors are either rockit 5's or the V series, which doesn't make a 5, but does make 4, 6, 8,. It's their professional series. i also use rockit 5 first gens, and am really happy with them. enough that i wouldn't bother doing a small upgrade. it wouldn't be worth the money. I'm better off waiting until a can do a rather large upgrade like Genelecs or something.
YES! You will NEED both, monitors and headphones. I would first mixing on my headphones, then go listen to the good monitors and then go to the regular stereo speakers (just to verify and confirm if your mixing was accurate, etc.).
I play videogames, watch movies, youtube videos on monitors (I haven’t mixed recently). I noticed that I really liked neutral because it sounds just right (voices sound natural, instruments sound like they should) and in games like battlefield V the soundstage and imaging is really accurate at the point that I only use headphones only if I need the mic. I use JBL LSR308
I'm listening on my Rokit 5s, and the Yamahas sound the crispest, and everything has a nice "sizzle". The bass is certainly more detailed. I'm not surprised...Yamaha does everything right.
@@DavidGonzalez-su6zg keep in mind , that you might get inverse of FR of a monitor... Or engineer might be conscious of that and use it to discern better
@@DavidGonzalez-su6zg Bruh, this was a mix comparison... not a recording of each set of monitors. He achieved that crisp defined mix using the yamaha's because they are flatter than the other two. The reason the highs in the kali mix dont sound as good is probably that the Kalis boost them and so he undercompensated in the mix
Hi glenn. This is just me giving my opinion on this subject which is one of the few I somewhat disagree with but also agree with. Most freelance or amateur producers don't have a tuned room or high quality monitors to mix on, and if they do, you need to crank them a bit loud to get a good image of whats going on. That can be a nuisance to neighbors if you live in an apartment or duplex. I have been mixing going on 3 years, and while that isn't much compared to someone your caliber, there is benefits from mixing on the RIGHT headphones. I use the ATH-900x Air open back headphones ran through a preamp to start my mixes. I never, EVER start on monitors. Headphones are imperative when diving into raw tracks. They allow you to zoom in on the audio and see whats actually going on. Monitors can get cloudy if you don't have at least a $500 set. Make sure when you mix on headphones, they are OPEN BACK. Never mix on closed back headphones. It traps the bass and dampens the mids. After I gain stage, do preliminary compression, eq and slight volume adjustments and get everything in its little pocket, I then turn on my monitors to make sure everything sounds cohesive. After that stage, I switch off my monitors and use headphones EXCLUSIVELY for vocal editing. Vocals are the most fragile part of the mix (besides snare). If you have bad vocal editing, you ruined the track. After I get all my plugins squared away and really saturated the vocals, I switch back on my monitors and make sure they can be heard or if they're too loud. Most of the time I use my monitors as a "bigger picture" for reference of the entire mix, but rarely do I solely rely on them. In an untreated room (especially) you need a good set of headphones. Funniest part about all of this is whenever I tell people I mix on headphones, they think i'm an amateur or say "I've never heard of that". People think i'm crazy, but once you learn your equipment, it's invaluable. Once they hear the final mix, they swallow their doubts. So my advice for beginners and freelancers, USE OPEN BACK MIXING HEADPHONES. For professionals that have treated rooms, solid income and can afford them, USE HIGH QUALITY MONITORS. Bearfoot, Genelec, Neumann and Amphion = High price / high quality Presonus, Kali, Yamaha, krk, adam audio = mid range price / good quality
Thanks for sharing. I'm thinking on starting producing my own music, almost only digital (trap, drill, house) and was thinking on buying an KRK. Thing is, I didn't know I should have a treated room for mixing. I thought that was necessary for recording vocals and drums. Also, I thought, I would only need monitors, and headphones were just the other options. I had the feeling that, after mixing on monitors, I would only need to test the song on regular speakers, and regular earphones. So, if the sound comes out as a "Regular" song that you hear everywhere, then the work should be done.
Seriously, this open back comment is underrated. I used to be an ath-m50 stan but once I got my first pair of open backs and semi open backs, I only grab the 50s when I'm recording audio and need no sound bleed. Other than that i run 97% of my mixes thru open backs
x If you're justing playing guitar and not mixing, you can use just about any monitor. I recommend the presonus eris line of monitors though. They're very flat and give you an accurate representation of how your instrument sounds across all devices. I have the Presonus eris E8XT's but starting out, i'd recommend the Eris E4.5's or E5's. Great monitors for a good price.
I thought the yamahas sounded the cleanest, but I actually liked the Kalis' mix a bit more. There were a few high frequencies that were left seemingly unpolished, but they also gave the song a little bit of the magic that is pretty absent from metal lately. The other ones didn't really have anything that stood out to me. Btw I'm listening on headphones because I'm of the group that doesn't own studio monitors yet.
I've listened on three devices (my old stereo, on the phone and a MAC with a Scarlett), the KRK sounded better to me - the Kali lacks some bright (maybe the excessive bass on the mix). I like these sloppy-highs - agree with you about "The Magic".
Actually, listening from a pair of studio monitors, I can hear a huge difference in the mix as the Krk are more precise and clean than the others, just notice how the overall bass frequencies on the mix get more balanced and expecially the mid/hi freq. of the bass guitar gets clear and more separated from other instruments, while they're completely absent in other monitors. Yamaha have the flattest response in my opinion (i own them) and clearer highs, while the Kali are more scooped on the mids.
@@nicolofaettini7458 But did you listen to the mixes on your Yamaha studio monitors? Because if so of course the Yamaha mix is going to sound the best since it's mixed on monitors you are listening to. Not defending the other speakers by the way, I'm just curious.
All three sound great. I liked the Kalis best blind, but the more I listened, the more I liked the Yamaha mix. Can’t go wrong with any of them. Thanks!
The Yamahas sounded more detailed to my ears...especially noticeable was the string attack on the bass guitar. Caveat...I listened to this vid through a pair of Audio Technica ATH-M50x's
I used to mix in a pair of Yamaha HS8. Then I changed them for a pair of Yamaha MSP7 + the sub Yamaha HS8S. The difference is huge. I hear details I wasn't hearing as much on the HS8, and my mixes have really improved in terms of translation.
1:25 But acoustic treatment minimizes the sound's reflections. 1:29 There are headphones designed with a flat EQ too. And you can also use AutoEQ and Equilizer APO to compensate for your specific headphone's frequency response.
Car stereo evaluation (only two speakers) Kali: Good. Pretty neutral all around KrK: Big, punchy bottom end, tamed highs. Yamaha: The same punchy bottom of the KrK's with a crisp, pleasantly aggressive high end.
Thanks for this vid Glenn. The KRKs seem to have the best bang for the buck from what I heard through my Audio-Technica headphones. When I studied audio production at Berklee, the instructor said it was essential to "move the air" when mixing.
I like the fullness of the KRKs. The Yamaha's sounds a wee bit thin and Kalis sounded pretty clean. I am partial to KRKs, I have a couple of Rokit 8s and Krk 10" sub and I absolutely love them! I'd love to see an episode about subs and tuning them to your room.
Mixing on headphones isn't difficult. You just need to learn how to do it, like with speakers. Best of all: it's a controlled environment. Setting up a good acoustic environment for your speakers can be difficult and expensive.
Good studio monitors have the best soundstage and imaging, so instrument placement it is better. For example, when I placed an instrument a bit off center (studio monitors) in a lot of headphones I have (not all) it was panned all the way to the side. Also when making adjustments to the reverb, in headphones you put more reverb due to the lack of a room (literally). But headphones are better for (like Glenn said) noticing those tiny details like pops, clipping so you can fix them right away. Also closed back headphones are needed for tracking so you can monitor yourself singing without bleeding sound into a mic.
Good to know that you approve Kali as a good brand. I just ordered a pair of the LP8s at my local music store last week. Love the content you put out, keep up the great work brother!
I mix on HS7 monitors and i love them. I checked the Mix on my Headphones too (ATH-M50x) and i liked the HS7 mix the most. The Kali was not bright enough and the KRK was to boomy.
Yeah - the Kali was a bit flat (not sure if it was brightness, but it did lack something) but I heard the mix nicely. The KRK was boomy or muddy... As if they had to boost mids to compensate and it saturated too much. Yamaha was definitely tops, but not so much (at least to me) that it hit me over the head. I really own no gear like this and have no opinions going in. C, A, B was my ranking. That said I was listening on gaming headphones which is a bad way to test, since it amplifies the bass more - so that probably helped the Kali and hurt the KRK. Not sure how much of a difference it would have made to the Yamaha.
I wanteded the Kalis but realized that I'm working in a small room, so I decided to go with the iLoud MTMs. Sure, they're more expensive and are limited in some ways, but the automatic calibration saves money on room treatment so I guess it's kind of a win. And, I get to take them wherever and they sound pretty amazing!
I find switching between speakers during tracking and mixing helps avoid ear fatigue and can really highlight problem frequencies. I typically track on fostex ported speakers, as they are easy on the ear and a little flattering in some occasions for the musician I'm tracking who may want to have a in-between listen during recording takes, but I switch periodically to about 5 different speakers, most usually to NS10s (non ported of course) for some refinement, in particular when evaluating the lows (my NS10s don't cover lows very well.. I don't think they are intended to). Then I switch periodically, during listening to old Yamaha Hi Fi speakers which (perhaps oddly) I use to 'visually' see lows that I haven't heard with the other speakers. The Yam Hi Fi speakers are 3 way and with the woofer I look for exaggerated movement and use that visual cue to assist when EQing out bass frequencies. I guess my obvious issue is my control room which must be lacking in good treatment, but honestly after 35yrs of metal there is some frequency loss in my hearing and this switching of speakers seems to help identify rouge frequencies I'm no longer able to hear. Also, I don't use computers.. well, no DAW in any event. Just analog Soundcraft desk, loads of outboard and an Alesis HD24HD which is my multitrack (have not yet found a tape solution I can afford to use and maintain).
If you own a pair of great flat response (-ish) headphones and those are the only ones you normally listen with, then mix with them. Your ears will be so trained for them that getting monitors will confuse you, you will be mixing on your monitors so that the sound resembles what you get with those headphones you use 90% of your time. Monitors will definately be necessary if you want to go for producing as a career though. But seriously, are you going pro? Like seriously? Know your true motivation and goals, and you will be better off in all areas of life.
This is the dumbest shit I've ever read .. how are you gonna get used to anything if you dont buy it. Buy a proper set of studio monitors and start to learn them. You will spend more time fixing shit once u actually get to a proper system or worse yet sending something out that you mixed on headphones and they are demoing your stuff on proper monitors which 99% of the time is the case
It's not about being pro. Or being good. Do it RIGHT so your music can sound as accurate and balanced as possible for your listeners! If you can get your stuff to sound similar (in quality and mix) to your favorite artists, your music will already be objectively more pleasing to people. Get monitors, develop an ear for frequencies, imaging, and for mixing. Headphones will NOT create a soundstage wide enough go get accurate imaging of where stuff is sitting in your mix. Don't listen to anyone telling you to "just" mix on headphones.
Very interesting comparison there and great video as always. As a live sound engineer I often get performers that work on backing tracks. If they are home made they tend to always have the same problem... Way too much bass and its always distorted and unclean and my EQ will never remove distortion and or balance it quite right. They never seem to realise that my 18" or 15" subs have way more bass response than their apple headphones. Never underestimate the importance of testing your mixes in different rooms and systems!!
These is a very good format, Thank you for posting it. I like the sound of the krk's and the yamahas. It is good to know that monitors are not super expensive in comparison to what they can offer. I do believe that many headphones do accentuate certain things to be more marketable, in recent times i hear a lot of headphones that put a lot of accent in bass. But there has to be some that are more plain. Could it be the same effect that happens with our voice, we hear ourselves very different than what we actually sound like.
Considering the hearing in my right ear is shot (Thanks, Deep Purple!), I have to EQ everything with my left ear when I mix. listening with headphones, I would say the B monitors kicked in some highs that I was uncomfortable with and the A monitors are lacking a tiny bit in the highs. The C monitors I felt provided the best mix; to me they had the best overall sound. Watched the video again listening through a Technics' receiver with a pair of Technics SB-CR77 3-way speakers with JBL crossovers (swapped the crossovers (my home stereo setup)). C was definitely the best sounding of all three mixes. Even with it cranked and listening from an adjacent room, it sounded the best. The only thing I use headphones for is helping to obtain a balance, never using them to EQ. 90/95% of the balancing is done WITHOUT headphones.
I really don't have a choice right now so headphones for me. But I'm very careful to mix and master the whole thing in mono as well. I wish there was a monitor simulation that accurately simulated stereo monitors. I also reference the mix through everything from cheap speakers to higher end sound systems at work. I'm getting pretty good results. I guess with practise you get good with what you got!
When the sound comes out of the left speaker, it hits both ears same as the sound from the right speaker it also hit both ears. That’s one thing a “headphone” can never do. And it can affect the final mix. So be cautious.
@@blizzbee I was actually fully aware of that. My idea was to simulate that with clever programming or something like that. Maybe record how music leaves monitors and hits the ears and create what would be the equivalent of an I pulse response.
That could actually be boiling down to the Yammies having less response in that region in the environment, causing one to push the bass channel up a bit more. Hence, more bass in the final mixdown. It could also be attributed to the Yamaha's naturally bright sound, causing one to compensate with more bass.. The room plays a giant role in how you end up hearing monitors and my guess is that's why Glenn got so many people saying they mix in headphones. They live in apartments, basements with their folks, etc.. They probably just can't feasibly handle a monitor situation and go direct in with most everything. Either way, monitors are all different sounding. And so is the room you put them in. With the way speakers sound these days, you really can't go wrong. Pick your budget, then look (at least a bit) at white papers, then just pick the ones that look cool to you. You're gonna get a killer monitor either way.
Listening on A7Xs. To me the KRKS sound the 2ND best. The drums sound a bit thin on the Kalis. Honestly I feel I can hear the difference in the HF on the Yamaha's, and they are still fat.
I thought the Rokit mix sounded better, which is ironic since I'm listening on a pair of Kali LP6. As these monitors should translate perfectly (they are exactly the same as the A mix), this is indisputable evidence that I disagree with the guy who did the mix... :)
You've said it yourself in the past, that you need room acoustic treatment for mixing with monitors based on which it should be better to mix on headphones (where acoustic treatment is kind of given) compared to an untreated room with monitors. Good treatment is expensive unfortunately.
yeah. gotta agree on With KFX on this. my mixes on krk's in an untreated room sound way better than mixing on my sennheiser headphones. and sound treatment isn't that expensive. rockwool goes for about 60 USD at home depot or lowes and that one container is enough to do a 6" corner trap nearly floor to ceiling (which probably isn't necessary). i'd say that's very affordable. and it's not like you have to buy it all at once. do one corner, then another, then another, then another, if that's how your budget works. i've definitely seen people use old matresses, blankets, comforters as well in a pinch. not everything has to be expensive. For the bedroom or single room home recording artist or project studio, you're going to need the acoustic treatment anyway to record decent vocals, or micing anything. whether it be voice, speakers, drums, etc. so the acoustic treatment becomes priority 1 for tracking or mixing making it even more vital.
Glenn, you should take a serious listen to the Sonarworks Reference 4 plugin for headphones. I think the biggest issue "home" studio users have is always the room. It doesn't matter if someone has killer reference monitors if they are using them in a terrible room. Most home studio users don't have the budget or the knowledge to properly analyze their room and then correct the problems. I purchased the Sonarworks Reference 4 plugin about 1 year ago and it improved how my mixes translate immediately. You install the plugin as the last device in your signal chain. If you aren't familiar with the plugin it works by basically "EQ's" whatever headphones you are using to be relatively flat. Sonarworks has EQ profiles for most of the popular headphones that are available. Their website even has a page that allows you to hear the difference their profile will make to your particular headphones. I have been mixing live sound since 1981 and have been doing the home studio thing since 2004. I know how to use all the various processors and FX but mixing on headphones while running Reference 4 has been the single best investment I've ever made. The plugin is $99.00 but Sonarworks have a free 21-day evaluation period. You can install the plugin on 3 devices and there is no iLok.
"Makes stereo imaging more difficult because it takes the room out of the equation" Yes. Exactly... That's literally why we mix on headphones. Because we have shitty rooms and don't have $300k tracking and mixing rooms... We have DAWs and direct input... Our "room" is inside the box... That said if you can afford monitors its a good investment. Good 3 way systems will show up issues especially in the low frequencies that headphones simply cannot do... Since the majority of audio is played back on cell phone speakers and car radios it's not "crucial" to have perfect low end... Advantageous of course... Will your track be shot down by snobby taste makers... Probably. But you do what you can with what you have...
@@liamphillips2918 yes but it will never be anything like something designed from scratch by an acoustic engineer. Its a case of trying to find your way through a rainforest wearing blindfolds...
@@liamphillips2918 my "studio" is a desk with my computer in a corner of my living room. My wife and 2yo kid live there too, and it's a rental. I won't be be putting up sound dampening panels my 2yo will drop milk on, draw on or touch with his dirty hands while I'm not looking and stain the shit out of them, nor will I drill holes everywhere in the walls to mount them. As he said in the video, "if you're serious about recording", consider good monitors. For a bunch of people here, it's a hobby and nothing else, so even with the budget to do so, it's not a given that it's actually worth it.
@@MiMenteOnLine any can work. I recommend the sennheiser HD 280. I've used several brands sennheiser over all are the least fatiguing and closest to accurate. I currently use the audio technical m50 which aren't the best as they have scooped mid The key is to learn the weakness of ur headphones and compensate or use sonarworks to correct them
I'm going way out on a limb here and saying that Glenn is messing with us. Because based on my understanding of these monitors, the mixes don't make sense. For example, the KRK are super bassy, yet they resulted in the bassiest mix. The Yamahas have a nasty midrange spike yet translated as the most balanced mix to me. So I'm saying that mix C is actually from the Kalis. Mix B is from the Yamahas. And mix A is from the KRKs. That said, all of them were really good and favorites would be a matter of taste.
Yeah I have a hard time believing how valid it is, simply because of how similar they were, I doubt even listening back to each speaker with the same mix would be so similar, there were obvious differences, but if you start from complete scratch on a mix even on the same speakers on a different day you'd probably change more, I assume he was copying setting between mixes and already very familiar with the sounds and material, only sweetening to taste, which is a very superficial comparison because 90% of the mix is already done and not going to give you an accurate idea of how any small differences would accumulate across an entire mix when dealing with a brand new song and totally different sounds
Yeah agreed, then again it all comes up to how you mix and what you're trying to consciously counter-act in your monitors. I guess it comes down to Glenns mix style, because I really don't think he'd mix the sources up like that (unless he's trying to low-key sell the Kalis).
@@cornbobrimlove7892 The thing is, you have to think backwards... if the monitors sound more full, you might end up with a thin mix, if they sound thin, you may end up compensating by boosting the bass.
I mix on AKG 240’s (headphones) because I am at university. When I go home to my parents, I mix on monitors as much as I can. However, I got a SUPER balanced mix on headphones that I referenced on my guitar instructor’s monitors he has in his office and he was impressed. So, I don’t think it’s completely bad to mix solely on headphones, just reference on monitors when you’re done if headphones are all you have. Find someone with monitors or reference it in the car or your home theatre system.
I think the Yamaha mix sounds the best on my Presonus Eris e5's. I found that the rhythm tone in the Kali mix could have used more mid range, and the KRK mix had a bit of low mid mud through my monitors. Not sure what I've learned but really what I've found most important is learning your room and whatever monitors you have.
I would've liked seeing you mix an unknown genre to you, so you really have to rely more on the speakers. Since you re mixing this on a daily basis, the monitors are not gonna have that massive of an impact, cz you already have a rough idea of how everything sounds and how u have to treat it.
I think I actually can hear the yamaha's sound better Not sure I'm listening with ear buds, need studio monitors to hear the differences in studio monitors.
Will also depend on the quality of the buds too. If they are reasonable In Ear Monitors as opposed to some cheap plasticky cack that came with a phone or were thrown together by some so called name for the masses, then you should definitely hear the difference. DOING the actual mixing is an entirely different animal. I would not wish to do it myself. However, one really also needs to know the monitors sonically and have a good idea how it should translate on the myriad different systems and methods of playback. It isn't too difficult to distinguish between a well produced tune and one that was not. However one still has listen a bit. I know some folk who can barely tell the difference between a hundred quid piece of shite and a seriously good, sonically balanced quality sound. Not too mention some folk have been corrupted to the point that if the bass isn't rattling your fillings out, they see it as lacking. Even if listening to a Chamber music ensemble. LOL. I exaggerate, but you probably get my drift.
Listening on Adam A7x & Genelecs 8330A. RUclips doesn't help that much, but I think you can notice a little bit of difference in the 400 - 600 Hz range and from 5k and over, specially that Yamaha sound. Thanks for making this video, you handle haters so good and I can't stop talking about this kind of stuff. It's not only more time consuming there are acoustic reasons that headphones give you no depth and harden EQ decisions, you might get dynamics fast, but I always listening a lot of EQ problems when I get stuff from headphones users. Thanks for pushing good information out!
I find the LP6s to be the most transparent and revealing. Then in second place come the HS7s with a gentle boost on the mids and at last come the Rokits sounding just a bit muddy around 300 but they all sounded good. Being that the LP6s are the cheapest blows my mind!
Glen, have you had a chance to hear the Kali LP8's yet? Curious how they stack up against other similar monitors, and would like to know if most home studios would be better off with 6 or 8 inch woofers.
I learned production and mixing using headphones for 4 years, when i got Yahama monitors, my music started to sound cool without having to overwork and then settle for what i had.
Kali- Neutral KrK- Boom bottoms Yamaha- crisp Hi. All three are pretty dang sweet but mixing is a game of inches. My ear preference falls on Yama / KrK since I like a mix of dat throat punch and potato chip crisp.
I'm in the same boat as you. Yamaha sounded the best to me overall. Makes me think maybe the Kali monitors are a little brighter than the Yamaha then. Differences were pretty subtle, though. Really interesting video.
having only ever used headphones to mix for the last 10-15 years, I often found my mixes lacking. I even invested in a nice pair of flat response aka headphones (which are amazing by the way) but I always liked the mixes until I played them on another device (more often than not my car stereo). I finally got a pair of Yamaha hs8s for my birthday this week, setup the listening area with some sound treatment and instantly I noticed a huge difference. I could easily pick out what was too Loud and what was lacking in the mix, I've even gone back to the drawing board with some of the takes because I could now pick out some of the less obvious trouble areas in the initial recordings. the monitors aren't even that expensive. should have gotten some years ago
Monitors do add color in a way similar to that of headphones; the environment in which the speakers operate are a delicate matter. The distance and angle of studio monitors should be carefully considered, coupled with the studio's sound isolation technique. While I do acknowledge that really flat headphones are difficult to come by (especially in the inexpensive variety), one of the main reasons why I tend to use (closed back) headphones is that I can conveniently bring my “studio” wherever I want. But ultimately, if you have the time and resources to setup a proper studio, monitor speakers are highly recommended if not a must.
Yeah, circumstances are probably what caused the vote to go the way it did. I have kids and live in a small apartment. I can only really record and mix at night and there's no chance whatsoever I could do it on monitors. Headphones suck, but it's my only option.
Once you get used to mixing on headphones (and, preferably, always referencing through several other means - yes, even phones and laptop speakers), you learn how to get around most of its shortcomings. I'd say it's true even to monitors - I've changed models and brands before and, at first, the mixes tend to suck, until you "get" the new sound and from then on it's smooth sailing. Even though I have a nice pair of Mackies, I tend to do most of my mixing on headphones nowadays, using the monitors only occasionally. Main reasons are that I can do it at much lower volume levels overall, so I don't bother other people and my ears tend to fatigue way, way slower; headphones is how most people are listening to music nowadays. From experience, getting a nice sounding stereo field on headphones and then tweaking so it works nice on the monitors gives me a richer and nicer headphone sound than going the other way around. I could probably learn how to replicate it, if I needed, though.
Definite improvement on guitar sound with the KRK and with the Yamaha mix there is a nice top end sizzle which sounds great on the drums but not so great when I heard the guitar solo'd. The first speakers mix really did sound a bit lifeless, so can only imagine they have some inherit mid cut
Ok, Evaluation made via Apple TV > via HDMI>Oppo BDP-103>Conrad Johnson PV14L>Acurus 200xfive>JM Labs Spectral 913 w Emotiva basx12 1) Yamaha - simply most realistic 2) Kali - just slightly pulled back 3) KRK - slight exaggeration in the upper mid and a lil sizzle on the tweeter
"Taking the room and reflections out of the equation" is precisely why I use headphones. It's not ideal, but for your average zero-budgeter like me it's a lot more realistic a proposition sticking on headphones than properly acoustically treating a room ("properly" being the key word), given 1. we likely don't know what the fuck we're doing 2. money 3. we're probably living in some rented space and the landlord won't take kindly to us putting holes in or gluing shit to the walls. I think as important as what gear you're using (within reason) is knowing the shit out of whatever gear it is. If your ears are thoroughly acclimatised to the sound of a particular pair of speakers or headphones because you've listened to 10,000 hours of music through them, so much so that your ears and brain have effectively calibrated themselves to treat those speakers as a baseline, you're a lot less likely to make weird mixing decisions that aren't going to translate well to different systems.
@@MiMenteOnLine I really don't have a broad knowledge of headphones, but my main pair are Sennheiser Momentum 2.0s, which are just really really nice-sounding headphones. They're not flat-response, but I don't really understand why people use flat-response speakers/headphones as I find if I use them I tend to mix as if I'm listening to a stereo and everything ends up sounding overcooked. Like I say though I think which headphones you're using doesn't matter as much as how well you know them. If you brain just naturally knows what a balanced mix should sound like through a particular pair of headphones because you've listened to them a hell of a lot, you'll probably mix better with them.
Exactly! I record something, sounds good to me, on my shitty speakers, sounds like shit in good studio headphones, sounds like shit on iphone, sounds good on tv and Bt speaker. Nowhere to go
Hey Glenn, I'm a huge fan of 80's power and heavy metal and on most albums it really sounds like the band just sat together in the studio and they we're all being recorded simultaneously, which gives the songs such a raw and lively sound, in contrast to these overproduced, quantized and autotuned abominations. So now my band is trying a different approach for recording. For one, our drummer feels that recording by click kills the vibe, so we don't do that. However, after having recorded him we've put a metronome over his track and the results were astonishing. Second, we're not double-tracking our guitars. We DO want a fat and tight sound, but we're trying to achieve it via traditional methods that we can also apply live. And lastly we're trying to record all our tracks in one take (except the guitar solos and clean parts). We're fully aware that the results will probably be sloppy and not as perfect as if we recorded piece by piece, but we decided that this is what we're after. What do you think of it?
*7 Pro Tips for Mixing With Headphones* I use a pair of Koss Pro4S. I picked them up cheap from an electronics spares wholesaler. They class them as “reference” headphones and sound much better than a lot of the very coloured headphones that are sold in hifi and music stores.They got an “honorable mention” in some online recording magazine article, but were beaten by the Sennheiser HD650 and AKG K701 both of which cost significantly more but the money I saved I reinvested in bass strings !! Just kidding, I put it towards my sE VR2 ribbon mics. I seriously love those things. Anyway 7 tips for recording with headphones. 1: Mix in mono 2: _Calibrate_ your ears with some reference tracks before and refer back to them as you mix. 3: Mix in mono 4: Give yourself twice the number of breaks as you would if you were mixing with speakers. Be careful with the levels too. Not too loud. 5: Mix in mono 6: Play back your mixes on your stereo, in the car, at your mates place I would even take your mix down to a music or hifi store and listen back through their studio monitors against your reference tracks. 7: Mix in mono. In fact I master in mono too. My mastering, I mean I pick a preset in Ozone , fuck around with a bunch of settings I have no idea about, give up and reload the preset again. Did I mention to mix in mono ?? Only at the very end do I pan the instruments and effects. Figured if it sounds good in mono, it will pan to stereo so much better. In fact I have forgotten this step a couple of times and sent stuff off. No one mentioned it to me. Goes to show how much they really listen. Yes it can be done, but it’s a shit load harder. Don’t even waste your time on a pair of Beats or something which aren’t sold as flat response reference headphones. A quick google will narrow your choices to half a dozen specific models. Good luck.
I was listening on a vizio sound bar in its music mode lol so it could be that too, but still goes to show that the listening experience is different for everyone
I have the opposite opinion on the Kali and KRK. To me, The Kali had more highs and the KRK had more lows. I was listening on ATH-M50x headphones though, so it may sound different from a different source. Damn, this video is so interesting and relevant!
Circle of tone suggests getting old vintage hi fi stereos as your monitors if you can’t afford new studio monitors. According to him the “flat response” of studio monitors is silly because they would all sound the same but they don’t. What do you make of that Glenn?
You can never get a system that is completely flat, but studio monitors are designed to be close. More importantly, they won't have any parts of the spectrum that are or are almost eliminated. And that's where you get issues, as you might have a problem in a frequency range the speaker cuts. And on another system that range might be very obvious. You could compensate by having multiple pairs of Hi Fi speakers and knowing where the weaknesses of each of them lie. But at that point you can get a pair of monitors for the same price and you will save space.
Circle of Tone is misinformed. Maybe what he doesn't understand is that over the whole spectrum there may only be a variation of +/- 2dB, but those variations happen at different places for different speakers. That is why even flat speakers don't sound exactly the same. A deviation of 1dB is audible. For some, even as low as 0.5dB, is audible. With few exceptions, vintage speakers are generally not as flat as modern monitors. I suggest he read Floyd Toole's Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms.
I think there is merit in looking into some very select speaker models, especially in some situations, but the way it was "sold" in that video struck me as disingenuous.
Most noticeable difference in the mix where the low end and high frequencies taming (at least to my ears, listening on a DT-770). For the low-end : The KRK mix sounded uneven (feels like there is conflicting stuff around 100-120Hz). The others mixes had some build-up too but lower around 50Hz and on my sound system it seems like the HS7 mix is not boosted as much the LP6 mix. I wish i could get a better picture with my monitors but my room is too small (so i have a lot of low-frequency building/cancelling in the corners of the room :/). For the high-end : The KRK and HS7 sounded nice (feels like there is slightly more compression on the KRK) but i fear the tweeters are REALLY harsh on the LP6 => The cymbals sounded so far away, like there is a big cut around 8KHz-10Khz. I mean, the DT-770 is known to be flattering around that range so if it sounds far away on those headphones, i fear some listeners don't even hear the details on the cymbals on lower-end speakers. If you do another one, could we also get the reference mix to refresh our ears before switching directly from one mix to another ? would be great :) Anyway nice video, thanks Glenn.
The KRK mix sounded a little bit more bassy on my system. Most noticeable in the kick drum. Highs were a little bit softer/unpronounced but not drastically. The Kali mix sound very round and balanced, little bit less low end and more pronounced highs. Felt a little bit cold compared to the other two but also the most flat and honest. The Yamaha mix sounded really good with the perfect amount of low end and high end. I got the impression that the mix sounded a little bit like it got the smiley face-eq treatment but also not in a huge way. I like the Kali and Yamaha the best, which is crazy considering their price points
I preferred the KRK from the 3 but I think the Kali and KRKs are pretty similar. I recently went from KRKs to the HS7s because I thought I was "upgrading" monitors basically off of price point. I feel like the HS7s don't accurately reproduce the low end especially on Kick drum. I'm going back to KRKs.
Sorry all...but if your mix environment isn't flat... none of this matters. The biggest myth of home mixing is that you can do it without a treated room.
My 90's Kenwoods say the Yamaha's just edge it over KRK's, noticeable on the lower end of the guitar but moreover massive respect for the stereo image, especially the drums.
My opinion on the 3 mixes: 1- KRK; It’s very beefy, lots of low end information, less details. 2- HS7; Transient is very high that makes me feel the overall sound is too plasticky 3- LP 6; Less beefy, moderate transients yet more details. I can’t tell about the stereo image of all 3 sets cause i’m not listening to them directly but as far as i can get from my good trusty headphones, i’m into Kali Audio sounding
I have a pair too and to be honest I'd rather mix a song with those than with a pair of monitors that I'm not familiar with. Will Putney even mixed a record with HD800's that hit the charts in Australia IIRC.
Sure. it's not about what CAN be done. it's about what's best to do. i can mix better on my crappy rockit 5's than i could on better monitors right now too. because i'm familiar with them and have put the work in. that doesn't mean that i couldn't make better mixes once i got familiar with better monitors. if someone is familiar with whatever speakers their listening on, and reference on other speakers/environments anything can be done. the point is... all things being equal, which way works better?
Slaves Forging if it a matter of getting used to so there’s no “better” and the fact is, I really do mix on everything, monitors, headphones and to me it doesn’t matter, but then again, that’s me
hd800 is shit very inaccurate shitty 6k peak and recessed mids. Hd650 is overall much better but a bit dark. Hd58x with bass mod(lower the bass) is the most accurate for me. hifiman ananda is accurate too. But etymotic er4sr is the best.
I literally gave a like becuase the recording was great. I like all music, but a lot of not mainstream rock bands just sound like guys trying to be hard core and making noise. These guys sound great, clean, and I could feel the music.
Just pulled the trigger on a pair of the LP6's- thank you Glenn! I was mixing on headphones and using sonar works but I figured it was time for an upgrade
I like how we’re supposed to hear a difference when we’re watching this on iphones while on the toilet.
Skyclad this is literally exactly how I am rn how did you know?? 😂
Bruh
THANK YOU LOL
EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!
😭🤭🤣
Engineer 1: Yo what monitors do you have?
Engineer 2: Yamaha HS8s, what about you?
Engineer 1: Lexus ES300s, 1997 edition
Engineer 2: Nice. My first were the Toyota Corolla '08s
this is such an underrated comment
Bruhhhh 😂
I lost it with this one 😂 I mix in my Yaris all the time
😅😅😅😅
Enginer 1 is Scotty Kilmer.
How to mix with headphones
1) mix
2) go listen to it in the car
3) realize it sounds like shit and try again until it sounds...good
@Michael Iris lol I can't do really do monitors in my barracks room.
And spend forever going back and forth. At the moment I feel like I'm in a time loop.
Yoooo I been doing this but I feel like it’ll come out better if I just have studio monitors off the go
I convert all my sound waves to high current AC electricity. Then i shove one electrode up my ass and the other down my throat. When i shit myself and cum at the same time i know I've achieved the perfect stereophonic mix!
Im pretty sure studio monitors are cheaper than most used cars with decent sound systems.
I mix on a pair of tuna cans connected by string and it sounds fine.
What did you do with the tuna tho... like did you eat it or is it still up for grabs or what.
yeah and cause of oil too. flat sound cause of oil.
RIPxBlackHawk bruh have you never talked to a friend with cans connected by a string? You don’t keep the food in the can 😂
@MikeyMike1397 r/woosh yourself buddy. I dnt think you understand the joke to make it.
I used to use the tuna cans too, but i upgraded to kidneybean cans. Much fatter sound.
Usually I just run my mixes threw Microsoft paint seems to work
Music G I’m more of a pc guy myself
Music G fucking idiot. you need to upgrade to Blender. There’s no way to get a good mix in paint.
hahahahahhahahaaaaa
ableton suck bruh, I use paint too
@Music G I like that I can draw in wave forms in paint easily but you do have a point
You forgot mixing with phone speakers??
1:50
Gettin' Down in the Upstate no no, a full mix using phone speakers
@@RudyAyoubwhy would you even want to do that
$2 earphones all the way
...of course bro dude man... the neopherite graphene magnetizers induce the subbass phaze frequency inducers to expand the full potential of the mixband harmonics.
i can mix only by looking the waveform
It doesn't matter what type of speakers I use. I always examine the waveform in every which way I can.
You aren’t a real engineer unless you’re mixing with earplugs in
disliker 22
True engineering gods can mix music without even using their ears.
Nothing compared to my brain to daw interface. Just hear the raw mix one time and then, booom, the mix sounds like i imagine it to sound. Perfect. Flawless.
@@disliker222 I don't even need a DAW, I just look at the WAV files in binary with HEX editor and do the maths myself. I still use soundcards for recording though, I tried listening by ear and writing it to WAV files manually, but I cannot type the numbers in that fast. Yet.
I hook a toaster up to my DAW. The toast pops up when the mix is good
It might be mixxed a little to hot.
You mean a kemper?....
Toasty...
It seems to me that the Yamaha's did the best job of letting you hear everything. At least, it seemed to me that minor bits, like pick attack, were clearly audible as opposed to muddy, indistinct, or inaudible in the other mixes.
But I don't think one can do better than Kali's for three hundred bucks.
I felt like the Yamaha had overall more excitement in the mix and more height, I felt like i got a more honest sense of all the aspects of the piece. The KRK had a nice rounded bass and had a meatier, more gravely feel. I thought Kali had height but it felt more focused than the Yamaha. Nice
It aint the smartest move to watch this on a mobile
Icke unless you use a GOOD pair of headphones. And no, not the earbuds included in the smartphone box... Watching this on laptop with the built in speakers isn’t wisely too.
@@emiel333 True. For me buying a sound card was one of the best choices I made. For some reason my speakers sound better (logitech ones) and my headset sounds better, at least I feel like I have a bigger frequency response. You can definitely tell the difference. When I come back to mobile it seems it's missing certain frequencies. As for this video I prefer the Yamaha's result on the drums, and I think the Kali's made a better job on the sound of the guitar, especially on the rythm one
Pedro Silva A sound card definitely improves the fidelity for your equipment. Many studios also use headphone amplifiers. A good sound card (audio interface) is capable of 192kHz/24bit audio recording and latency free monitoring. They have build in pre amps and great AD/DA converters. Also the headphone and speaker output is way better in comparison to a pc or smartphone. That’s why you got this nice sound!!
@@emiel333 oh makes sense yeah
Truth
The thing that most people aren't realizing is... When you say... These sounded darker... Or the high end in these sounded louder.... Is that the opposite is actually happening when mixing. If the highs sound louder.. That means that during the mixing process chances are the high end wasn't cutting through as much in those monitors so the engineer is compensating... Same with.."these ones sounded darker" which means there were more mids and highs coming through during the mix and the engineer pulled those frequencies. So it's not the monitors that sounded "dark" or "too bright".. It's actually the opposite. Something to keep in mind when choosing a monitor that's right for you.
Your point is inconsequential, though technically correct. Yes, the opposite of what we hear is happening as you suggest, causing certain frequencies to be emphasized or hidden so you want to choose the most neutral option where the highlighting of frequencies that does occur (as is inevitable) get's you as close to a finished sound as possible, that will translate across multiple systems.
@@OdinOfficialEmcee agreed
This true for light and sound and is interesting technically . I am not sure how it can help mixing ? More thought?
Bang on. I reckon the KRK mix sounds the tubbiest and least clear in the mid range. That would make sense because they're so scooped. I mean, they make everything sound so good that it's hard to be objective, so I'd never buy KRK's except for funsies or DJ'ing (if I were a DJ).
Ya....my monitors sound too good make my bad mixes sound good.
Dude I’ve been mixing with my KRK Rokits (G5) for like 8 years now and love them!
BUT (huh, huh, I said but)... I also dump the mix and listen to it in multiple sources, NOT JUST in my studio, but my car, headphones, and a variety of other sources. It’s the only way to truly test the mix.
That's one reason why you'll often see either "horrortones" (ie. Auratones / Avantone mixcubes), or some old "boombox" in studios, precisely for alternate monitoring, or as "average real-world" test-subjects, as it were.
Rokits have a notorious buzzing problem. Maybe you have a good pair, but in general real studios are staying far away from them.
@@KingCornWallis that's an easy problem to fix with youtube tutorials, and i never had that problem. after about a decade my volume slowly faded away to nothing on one of my first gen's, but that was with tons of use. i was watching movies and netflix on them! i found a used pair pretty cheap though!
also i've noticed myself and heard from others that the first gen Krk's are way better than the 2nd or 3rd gen's. This is a real thing. i'm blown away at how different a colleague of mine's 3rd gens sound. i can't imagine mixing on them.
also i think you mean rockit 5's in the original post. G is for generation in Krk's and they're aren't up to G5's yet! your monitors are either rockit 5's or the V series, which doesn't make a 5, but does make 4, 6, 8,. It's their professional series.
i also use rockit 5 first gens, and am really happy with them. enough that i wouldn't bother doing a small upgrade. it wouldn't be worth the money. I'm better off waiting until a can do a rather large upgrade like Genelecs or something.
YES! You will NEED both, monitors and headphones. I would first mixing on my headphones, then go listen to the good monitors and then go to the regular stereo speakers (just to verify and confirm if your mixing was accurate, etc.).
That moment when you realise you need monitors to watch this video
nope, you just need Banana!
Voice meter banana..... #free #NotASponsor
the comparison was to see which tools allowed them to create the best sounding results from your speakers
U need all pair of presented monitors Bro :)
Nah, I'm watching on a TV with default audio settings and can hear the differences between each mix pretty easily
Glenn the type of guy to listen to the news on studio monitors.
To get a neutral opinion about the elections?
Anurag Arya Glenn the type of guy to listen to his baby’s radio system through a set of A7xs
i play minecraft on my monitors
I play videogames, watch movies, youtube videos on monitors (I haven’t mixed recently). I noticed that I really liked neutral because it sounds just right (voices sound natural, instruments sound like they should) and in games like battlefield V the soundstage and imaging is really accurate at the point that I only use headphones only if I need the mic. I use JBL LSR308
I do this too.
Were we supposed to be listening to this comparison on studio monitors or headphones?
Using my mobile phone's speaker, they all suck.
That's because the phones' speaker sucks.
@@setra23 that's the joke
@@setra23Woosh
old and overplayed meme joke sry
use your usual listening environment
and no this is not a joke but a serious question. listening on phone speaker can help identify quite a lot of mix problems.
I'm listening on my Rokit 5s, and the Yamahas sound the crispest, and everything has a nice "sizzle". The bass is certainly more detailed.
I'm not surprised...Yamaha does everything right.
The Yamahas have a bump in the mids & high end. DUH..! of course they're gonna sound crisp..YOU DONT WANT CRISP. YOU WANT FLAT! 😄
@@DavidGonzalez-su6zg keep in mind , that you might get inverse of FR of a monitor... Or engineer might be conscious of that and use it to discern better
@@DavidGonzalez-su6zg Well they still have the NS10 in studios so they must be doing something right.
@@DavidGonzalez-su6zg Bruh, this was a mix comparison... not a recording of each set of monitors. He achieved that crisp defined mix using the yamaha's because they are flatter than the other two. The reason the highs in the kali mix dont sound as good is probably that the Kalis boost them and so he undercompensated in the mix
@@makka7946 lol. Yamaha ARE NOT flat. They have a low mid /mid frequency bump of around +3db. The Kali's are flater than the Yamahas. That's a fact.
Hi glenn. This is just me giving my opinion on this subject which is one of the few I somewhat disagree with but also agree with.
Most freelance or amateur producers don't have a tuned room or high quality monitors to mix on, and if they do, you need to crank them a bit loud to get a good image of whats going on. That can be a nuisance to neighbors if you live in an apartment or duplex.
I have been mixing going on 3 years, and while that isn't much compared to someone your caliber, there is benefits from mixing on the RIGHT headphones. I use the ATH-900x Air open back headphones ran through a preamp to start my mixes. I never, EVER start on monitors. Headphones are imperative when diving into raw tracks. They allow you to zoom in on the audio and see whats actually going on. Monitors can get cloudy if you don't have at least a $500 set. Make sure when you mix on headphones, they are OPEN BACK. Never mix on closed back headphones. It traps the bass and dampens the mids.
After I gain stage, do preliminary compression, eq and slight volume adjustments and get everything in its little pocket, I then turn on my monitors to make sure everything sounds cohesive. After that stage, I switch off my monitors and use headphones EXCLUSIVELY for vocal editing. Vocals are the most fragile part of the mix (besides snare). If you have bad vocal editing, you ruined the track. After I get all my plugins squared away and really saturated the vocals, I switch back on my monitors and make sure they can be heard or if they're too loud.
Most of the time I use my monitors as a "bigger picture" for reference of the entire mix, but rarely do I solely rely on them. In an untreated room (especially) you need a good set of headphones. Funniest part about all of this is whenever I tell people I mix on headphones, they think i'm an amateur or say "I've never heard of that". People think i'm crazy, but once you learn your equipment, it's invaluable. Once they hear the final mix, they swallow their doubts.
So my advice for beginners and freelancers, USE OPEN BACK MIXING HEADPHONES. For professionals that have treated rooms, solid income and can afford them, USE HIGH QUALITY MONITORS.
Bearfoot, Genelec, Neumann and Amphion = High price / high quality
Presonus, Kali, Yamaha, krk, adam audio = mid range price / good quality
Thanks for sharing. I'm thinking on starting producing my own music, almost only digital (trap, drill, house) and was thinking on buying an KRK. Thing is, I didn't know I should have a treated room for mixing. I thought that was necessary for recording vocals and drums. Also, I thought, I would only need monitors, and headphones were just the other options.
I had the feeling that, after mixing on monitors, I would only need to test the song on regular speakers, and regular earphones. So, if the sound comes out as a "Regular" song that you hear everywhere, then the work should be done.
Great reply. Good engineer can mix on anything. By the way I preferred the Kali Audios cause they seemed the most neutral.
Seriously, this open back comment is underrated. I used to be an ath-m50 stan but once I got my first pair of open backs and semi open backs, I only grab the 50s when I'm recording audio and need no sound bleed. Other than that i run 97% of my mixes thru open backs
x If you're justing playing guitar and not mixing, you can use just about any monitor. I recommend the presonus eris line of monitors though. They're very flat and give you an accurate representation of how your instrument sounds across all devices. I have the Presonus eris E8XT's but starting out, i'd recommend the Eris E4.5's or E5's. Great monitors for a good price.
This is exactly the point. Monitors are only as good as the room they are in. Low budget monitors therefore somehow don't really seem to make sense.
The Yamaha 7's.
And not just because I'm listening through a pair of them.
Ikr lol
IM noT bIaseD, yOu'Re biAsEd
They have nice clarity and seem well balanced
Same lol they did seem more clear and that guitar solo sat in the mix well.
same same here. Checked this out in my own HS7's and have to agree, it's just so clear sounding.
It was easier to pick out the differences when repeating a section for comparison, good stuff Glenn 🤘
I thought the yamahas sounded the cleanest, but I actually liked the Kalis' mix a bit more. There were a few high frequencies that were left seemingly unpolished, but they also gave the song a little bit of the magic that is pretty absent from metal lately.
The other ones didn't really have anything that stood out to me.
Btw I'm listening on headphones because I'm of the group that doesn't own studio monitors yet.
I've listened on three devices (my old stereo, on the phone and a MAC with a Scarlett), the KRK sounded better to me - the Kali lacks some bright (maybe the excessive bass on the mix).
I like these sloppy-highs - agree with you about "The Magic".
I like the price of the Kalis performance. Is the squeeze worth juice ?
Actually, listening from a pair of studio monitors, I can hear a huge difference in the mix as the Krk are more precise and clean than the others, just notice how the overall bass frequencies on the mix get more balanced and expecially the mid/hi freq. of the bass guitar gets clear and more separated from other instruments, while they're completely absent in other monitors. Yamaha have the flattest response in my opinion (i own them) and clearer highs, while the Kali are more scooped on the mids.
@@EricMacFadden The Kalis sounded scooped the Rockits sound like Rockits and the Yamahas sounded similar to the kali w/o the scoop
@@nicolofaettini7458 But did you listen to the mixes on your Yamaha studio monitors? Because if so of course the Yamaha mix is going to sound the best since it's mixed on monitors you are listening to. Not defending the other speakers by the way, I'm just curious.
All three sound great. I liked the Kalis best blind, but the more I listened, the more I liked the Yamaha mix. Can’t go wrong with any of them. Thanks!
Everyone says you need to listen to your mix in the car, so now I mix exclusively in my car.
I think there's a plugin for that but I'm not sure how well it re-creates it.
All the above are suitable monitors (I am partial to the KRKs), none of them resulted in a bad mix.
Overall the Kali's have my vote, but I really like the bass guitar level with the Yamahas.
The Yamahas sounded more detailed to my ears...especially noticeable was the string attack on the bass guitar.
Caveat...I listened to this vid through a pair of Audio Technica ATH-M50x's
yea The fact that this video was sponsored by Kali kind of hurt them, cuase those yamahas sounded fire. I thought they were the best on all mixes
Likewise, and I can attest to your observations.
I used to mix in a pair of Yamaha HS8. Then I changed them for a pair of Yamaha MSP7 + the sub Yamaha HS8S. The difference is huge. I hear details I wasn't hearing as much on the HS8, and my mixes have really improved in terms of translation.
1:25 But acoustic treatment minimizes the sound's reflections.
1:29 There are headphones designed with a flat EQ too. And you can also use AutoEQ and Equilizer APO to compensate for your specific headphone's frequency response.
Car stereo evaluation (only two speakers)
Kali: Good. Pretty neutral all around
KrK: Big, punchy bottom end, tamed highs.
Yamaha: The same punchy bottom of the KrK's with a crisp, pleasantly aggressive high end.
I have Yamahas and there is not as much bottom as the KRKs.
@@TheRealHucasys We're not hearing the speakers, we're hearing mixes made on those speakers.
Nicholas. That is right on point.
Thanks for this vid Glenn. The KRKs seem to have the best bang for the buck from what I heard through my Audio-Technica headphones. When I studied audio production at Berklee, the instructor said it was essential to "move the air" when mixing.
Mixing in my room tonight and this comment inspired me a bit
@@Petiej0110 👍😁
I like the fullness of the KRKs. The Yamaha's sounds a wee bit thin and Kalis sounded pretty clean. I am partial to KRKs, I have a couple of Rokit 8s and Krk 10" sub and I absolutely love them! I'd love to see an episode about subs and tuning them to your room.
Mixing on headphones isn't difficult. You just need to learn how to do it, like with speakers. Best of all: it's a controlled environment. Setting up a good acoustic environment for your speakers can be difficult and expensive.
Good studio monitors have the best soundstage and imaging, so instrument placement it is better.
For example, when I placed an instrument a bit off center (studio monitors) in a lot of headphones I have (not all) it was panned all the way to the side.
Also when making adjustments to the reverb, in headphones you put more reverb due to the lack of a room (literally).
But headphones are better for (like Glenn said) noticing those tiny details like pops, clipping so you can fix them right away.
Also closed back headphones are needed for tracking so you can monitor yourself singing without bleeding sound into a mic.
Good to know that you approve Kali as a good brand. I just ordered a pair of the LP8s at my local music store last week. Love the content you put out, keep up the great work brother!
I mix on HS7 monitors and i love them. I checked the Mix on my Headphones too (ATH-M50x) and i liked the HS7 mix the most. The Kali was not bright enough and the KRK was to boomy.
Yamaha really way better i didn't expect that much difference.
Yeah - the Kali was a bit flat (not sure if it was brightness, but it did lack something) but I heard the mix nicely.
The KRK was boomy or muddy... As if they had to boost mids to compensate and it saturated too much.
Yamaha was definitely tops, but not so much (at least to me) that it hit me over the head.
I really own no gear like this and have no opinions going in.
C, A, B was my ranking.
That said I was listening on gaming headphones which is a bad way to test, since it amplifies the bass more - so that probably helped the Kali and hurt the KRK. Not sure how much of a difference it would have made to the Yamaha.
I wanteded the Kalis but realized that I'm working in a small room, so I decided to go with the iLoud MTMs. Sure, they're more expensive and are limited in some ways, but the automatic calibration saves money on room treatment so I guess it's kind of a win. And, I get to take them wherever and they sound pretty amazing!
I find switching between speakers during tracking and mixing helps avoid ear fatigue and can really highlight problem frequencies. I typically track on fostex ported speakers, as they are easy on the ear and a little flattering in some occasions for the musician I'm tracking who may want to have a in-between listen during recording takes, but I switch periodically to about 5 different speakers, most usually to NS10s (non ported of course) for some refinement, in particular when evaluating the lows (my NS10s don't cover lows very well.. I don't think they are intended to). Then I switch periodically, during listening to old Yamaha Hi Fi speakers which (perhaps oddly) I use to 'visually' see lows that I haven't heard with the other speakers. The Yam Hi Fi speakers are 3 way and with the woofer I look for exaggerated movement and use that visual cue to assist when EQing out bass frequencies. I guess my obvious issue is my control room which must be lacking in good treatment, but honestly after 35yrs of metal there is some frequency loss in my hearing and this switching of speakers seems to help identify rouge frequencies I'm no longer able to hear. Also, I don't use computers.. well, no DAW in any event. Just analog Soundcraft desk, loads of outboard and an Alesis HD24HD which is my multitrack (have not yet found a tape solution I can afford to use and maintain).
To my ears the KALI and Yamaha sound exactly the same while the KRK’s have more bass response.
Good stuff as usual, Glenn. Glad you’re able to start doing this stuff full time, and your content is just getting better.
No use my broken dollar tree earbuds
If you own a pair of great flat response (-ish) headphones and those are the only ones you normally listen with, then mix with them. Your ears will be so trained for them that getting monitors will confuse you, you will be mixing on your monitors so that the sound resembles what you get with those headphones you use 90% of your time. Monitors will definately be necessary if you want to go for producing as a career though. But seriously, are you going pro? Like seriously? Know your true motivation and goals, and you will be better off in all areas of life.
Why the "seriously?" What's wrong with wanting to go pro? I'm sure a lot of people do.
@@lamenamethefirst saying seriously doesn't imply there is a problem with going pro in this context. It implies that deeper consideration is desired
This is the dumbest shit I've ever read .. how are you gonna get used to anything if you dont buy it. Buy a proper set of studio monitors and start to learn them. You will spend more time fixing shit once u actually get to a proper system or worse yet sending something out that you mixed on headphones and they are demoing your stuff on proper monitors which 99% of the time is the case
It's not about being pro. Or being good.
Do it RIGHT so your music can sound as accurate and balanced as possible for your listeners! If you can get your stuff to sound similar (in quality and mix) to your favorite artists, your music will already be objectively more pleasing to people.
Get monitors, develop an ear for frequencies, imaging, and for mixing.
Headphones will NOT create a soundstage wide enough go get accurate imaging of where stuff is sitting in your mix.
Don't listen to anyone telling you to "just" mix on headphones.
Very interesting comparison there and great video as always. As a live sound engineer I often get performers that work on backing tracks. If they are home made they tend to always have the same problem... Way too much bass and its always distorted and unclean and my EQ will never remove distortion and or balance it quite right. They never seem to realise that my 18" or 15" subs have way more bass response than their apple headphones. Never underestimate the importance of testing your mixes in different rooms and systems!!
I will still continue to mix on headphones and constantly reference, and check on other systems. I simply don't have the space or money for monitors.
These is a very good format, Thank you for posting it. I like the sound of the krk's and the yamahas. It is good to know that monitors are not super expensive in comparison to what they can offer. I do believe that many headphones do accentuate certain things to be more marketable, in recent times i hear a lot of headphones that put a lot of accent in bass. But there has to be some that are more plain. Could it be the same effect that happens with our voice, we hear ourselves very different than what we actually sound like.
I find that Sonarworks Reference really helps me out.
All 3 sounded really good by my ears. Loved the drum sounds, tgough sounded like they didn't quite poke through so well on the Kali's.
💯
Considering the hearing in my right ear is shot (Thanks, Deep Purple!), I have to EQ everything with my left ear when I mix. listening with headphones, I would say the B monitors kicked in some highs that I was uncomfortable with and the A monitors are lacking a tiny bit in the highs. The C monitors I felt provided the best mix; to me they had the best overall sound. Watched the video again listening through a Technics' receiver with a pair of Technics SB-CR77 3-way speakers with JBL crossovers (swapped the crossovers (my home stereo setup)). C was definitely the best sounding of all three mixes. Even with it cranked and listening from an adjacent room, it sounded the best.
The only thing I use headphones for is helping to obtain a balance, never using them to EQ. 90/95% of the balancing is done WITHOUT headphones.
The Yamaha's are pretty similar pricing in the UK and can actually be bought second hand.
I really don't have a choice right now so headphones for me. But I'm very careful to mix and master the whole thing in mono as well. I wish there was a monitor simulation that accurately simulated stereo monitors. I also reference the mix through everything from cheap speakers to higher end sound systems at work.
I'm getting pretty good results. I guess with practise you get good with what you got!
When the sound comes out of the left speaker, it hits both ears same as the sound from the right speaker it also hit both ears. That’s one thing a “headphone” can never do. And it can affect the final mix. So be cautious.
@@blizzbee
I was actually fully aware of that. My idea was to simulate that with clever programming or something like that. Maybe record how music leaves monitors and hits the ears and create what would be the equivalent of an I pulse response.
Sounds like you're looking for Waves Nx?
try etymotic mk5
@@sigurdfyllingkarstad2694 What you're looking for is stereo to binaural. Check out bs2b.sourceforge.net/
Something very strange going on with the bass guitar on the yamahas
There seems to be more bass "growl" on the Yamahas, which I like.
Great job! You heard that extra range picking up the picking sound!
Yes! And it's awesome, so much more beefy!
That could actually be boiling down to the Yammies having less response in that region in the environment, causing one to push the bass channel up a bit more. Hence, more bass in the final mixdown. It could also be attributed to the Yamaha's naturally bright sound, causing one to compensate with more bass.. The room plays a giant role in how you end up hearing monitors and my guess is that's why Glenn got so many people saying they mix in headphones. They live in apartments, basements with their folks, etc.. They probably just can't feasibly handle a monitor situation and go direct in with most everything. Either way, monitors are all different sounding. And so is the room you put them in.
With the way speakers sound these days, you really can't go wrong. Pick your budget, then look (at least a bit) at white papers, then just pick the ones that look cool to you. You're gonna get a killer monitor either way.
Actually thought the low end on that mix wasn’t as realistic. Sub frequencies under 100hz were emphasized that didn’t fit well.
the kali and yamahs sounded the best to me i was listening thru my yorkville ysm 8s
Love seeing other Yorkville/Traynor users!
@@FinalBaton :)
Been using a pair of Mackie HR624 mk1 monitors in my personal studio and I can't be happier with them!
That rhythm riff !
Spent 10 minutes trying to remember what it sounds like : Amon Amarth, the verse riff of A dream That Cannot Be. Awesome riff :)
Listening on A7Xs. To me the KRKS sound the 2ND best. The drums sound a bit thin on the Kalis. Honestly I feel I can hear the difference in the HF on the Yamaha's, and they are still fat.
I thought the Rokit mix sounded better, which is ironic since I'm listening on a pair of Kali LP6. As these monitors should translate perfectly (they are exactly the same as the A mix), this is indisputable evidence that I disagree with the guy who did the mix... :)
You've said it yourself in the past, that you need room acoustic treatment for mixing with monitors based on which it should be better to mix on headphones (where acoustic treatment is kind of given) compared to an untreated room with monitors. Good treatment is expensive unfortunately.
I do know about that. I think an untreated room with monitors would still translate better than headphones.
yeah. gotta agree on With KFX on this. my mixes on krk's in an untreated room sound way better than mixing on my sennheiser headphones.
and sound treatment isn't that expensive. rockwool goes for about 60 USD at home depot or lowes and that one container is enough to do a 6" corner trap nearly floor to ceiling (which probably isn't necessary). i'd say that's very affordable. and it's not like you have to buy it all at once. do one corner, then another, then another, then another, if that's how your budget works. i've definitely seen people use old matresses, blankets, comforters as well in a pinch. not everything has to be expensive.
For the bedroom or single room home recording artist or project studio, you're going to need the acoustic treatment anyway to record decent vocals, or micing anything. whether it be voice, speakers, drums, etc. so the acoustic treatment becomes priority 1 for tracking or mixing making it even more vital.
Glenn, you should take a serious listen to the Sonarworks Reference 4 plugin for headphones. I think the biggest issue "home" studio users have is always the room. It doesn't matter if someone has killer reference monitors if they are using them in a terrible room. Most home studio users don't have the budget or the knowledge to properly analyze their room and then correct the problems. I purchased the Sonarworks Reference 4 plugin about 1 year ago and it improved how my mixes translate immediately. You install the plugin as the last device in your signal chain. If you aren't familiar with the plugin it works by basically "EQ's" whatever headphones you are using to be relatively flat. Sonarworks has EQ profiles for most of the popular headphones that are available. Their website even has a page that allows you to hear the difference their profile will make to your particular headphones. I have been mixing live sound since 1981 and have been doing the home studio thing since 2004. I know how to use all the various processors and FX but mixing on headphones while running Reference 4 has been the single best investment I've ever made. The plugin is $99.00 but Sonarworks have a free 21-day evaluation period. You can install the plugin on 3 devices and there is no iLok.
I really do like the LP6. Thanks for the video!
"Makes stereo imaging more difficult because it takes the room out of the equation"
Yes. Exactly... That's literally why we mix on headphones. Because we have shitty rooms and don't have $300k tracking and mixing rooms...
We have DAWs and direct input... Our "room" is inside the box...
That said if you can afford monitors its a good investment. Good 3 way systems will show up issues especially in the low frequencies that headphones simply cannot do...
Since the majority of audio is played back on cell phone speakers and car radios it's not "crucial" to have perfect low end... Advantageous of course... Will your track be shot down by snobby taste makers... Probably. But you do what you can with what you have...
@@liamphillips2918 yes but it will never be anything like something designed from scratch by an acoustic engineer. Its a case of trying to find your way through a rainforest wearing blindfolds...
3star2nr whats up with the periods
@@liamphillips2918 my "studio" is a desk with my computer in a corner of my living room. My wife and 2yo kid live there too, and it's a rental. I won't be be putting up sound dampening panels my 2yo will drop milk on, draw on or touch with his dirty hands while I'm not looking and stain the shit out of them, nor will I drill holes everywhere in the walls to mount them.
As he said in the video, "if you're serious about recording", consider good monitors. For a bunch of people here, it's a hobby and nothing else, so even with the budget to do so, it's not a given that it's actually worth it.
any headphone recommendation for mixing?
@@MiMenteOnLine any can work. I recommend the sennheiser HD 280.
I've used several brands sennheiser over all are the least fatiguing and closest to accurate.
I currently use the audio technical m50 which aren't the best as they have scooped mid
The key is to learn the weakness of ur headphones and compensate or use sonarworks to correct them
They all sounded good...so I'd go with the cheapest and get the kali
agree
For the price has to be taken into account. Agreed
Enough said . 😎
I'm going way out on a limb here and saying that Glenn is messing with us. Because based on my understanding of these monitors, the mixes don't make sense. For example, the KRK are super bassy, yet they resulted in the bassiest mix. The Yamahas have a nasty midrange spike yet translated as the most balanced mix to me. So I'm saying that mix C is actually from the Kalis. Mix B is from the Yamahas. And mix A is from the KRKs. That said, all of them were really good and favorites would be a matter of taste.
Yeah I have a hard time believing how valid it is, simply because of how similar they were, I doubt even listening back to each speaker with the same mix would be so similar, there were obvious differences, but if you start from complete scratch on a mix even on the same speakers on a different day you'd probably change more, I assume he was copying setting between mixes and already very familiar with the sounds and material, only sweetening to taste, which is a very superficial comparison because 90% of the mix is already done and not going to give you an accurate idea of how any small differences would accumulate across an entire mix when dealing with a brand new song and totally different sounds
I too thought that the mix from the Kali's sounded hollow and thin. Should have happened on the Yamahas
@@cornbobrimlove7892 not if you know what you're doing.
Yeah agreed, then again it all comes up to how you mix and what you're trying to consciously counter-act in your monitors. I guess it comes down to Glenns mix style, because I really don't think he'd mix the sources up like that (unless he's trying to low-key sell the Kalis).
@@cornbobrimlove7892 The thing is, you have to think backwards... if the monitors sound more full, you might end up with a thin mix, if they sound thin, you may end up compensating by boosting the bass.
I mix on AKG 240’s (headphones) because I am at university. When I go home to my parents, I mix on monitors as much as I can. However, I got a SUPER balanced mix on headphones that I referenced on my guitar instructor’s monitors he has in his office and he was impressed. So, I don’t think it’s completely bad to mix solely on headphones, just reference on monitors when you’re done if headphones are all you have. Find someone with monitors or reference it in the car or your home theatre system.
I think the Yamaha mix sounds the best on my Presonus Eris e5's. I found that the rhythm tone in the Kali mix could have used more mid range, and the KRK mix had a bit of low mid mud through my monitors. Not sure what I've learned but really what I've found most important is learning your room and whatever monitors you have.
I would've liked seeing you mix an unknown genre to you, so you really have to rely more on the speakers. Since you re mixing this on a daily basis, the monitors are not gonna have that massive of an impact, cz you already have a rough idea of how everything sounds and how u have to treat it.
I think I actually can hear the yamaha's sound better
Not sure I'm listening with ear buds, need studio monitors to hear the differences in studio monitors.
Will also depend on the quality of the buds too. If they are reasonable In Ear Monitors as opposed to some cheap plasticky cack that came with a phone or were thrown together by some so called name for the masses, then you should definitely hear the difference.
DOING the actual mixing is an entirely different animal. I would not wish to do it myself. However, one really also needs to know the monitors sonically and have a good idea how it should translate on the myriad different systems and methods of playback.
It isn't too difficult to distinguish between a well produced tune and one that was not. However one still has listen a bit. I know some folk who can barely tell the difference between a hundred quid piece of shite and a seriously good, sonically balanced quality sound.
Not too mention some folk have been corrupted to the point that if the bass isn't rattling your fillings out, they see it as lacking. Even if listening to a Chamber music ensemble. LOL. I exaggerate, but you probably get my drift.
Lol, I'm watching a review on Kali LP6's with Kali LP6's. I wonder if that technically phase cancels each other out?
nope it does the opposite. it amplifies the problems your speaker has.
@@MrPartch It was a joke about watching a review on kali's while listening on kali's.
@@commontimeproductions oh i see. the good old 'it was a joke' card. you're welcome.
Listening on Adam A7x & Genelecs 8330A. RUclips doesn't help that much, but I think you can notice a little bit of difference in the 400 - 600 Hz range and from 5k and over, specially that Yamaha sound. Thanks for making this video, you handle haters so good and I can't stop talking about this kind of stuff. It's not only more time consuming there are acoustic reasons that headphones give you no depth and harden EQ decisions, you might get dynamics fast, but I always listening a lot of EQ problems when I get stuff from headphones users.
Thanks for pushing good information out!
I find the LP6s to be the most transparent and revealing. Then in second place come the HS7s with a gentle boost on the mids and at last come the Rokits sounding just a bit muddy around 300 but they all sounded good. Being that the LP6s are the cheapest blows my mind!
Would love to see a video on your thoughts on room correction software/hardware. Perhaps before and after proper acoustic treatment.
Glen, have you had a chance to hear the Kali LP8's yet? Curious how they stack up against other similar monitors, and would like to know if most home studios would be better off with 6 or 8 inch woofers.
The Yamaha Hs7 mix sounded the best to me on my HS8 monitors... go figure lol.
I learned production and mixing using headphones for 4 years, when i got Yahama monitors, my music started to sound cool without having to overwork and then settle for what i had.
Kali- Neutral
KrK- Boom bottoms
Yamaha- crisp Hi.
All three are pretty dang sweet but mixing is a game of inches. My ear preference falls on Yama / KrK since I like a mix of dat throat punch and potato chip crisp.
I'm in the same boat as you. Yamaha sounded the best to me overall. Makes me think maybe the Kali monitors are a little brighter than the Yamaha then. Differences were pretty subtle, though. Really interesting video.
having only ever used headphones to mix for the last 10-15 years, I often found my mixes lacking. I even invested in a nice pair of flat response aka headphones (which are amazing by the way) but I always liked the mixes until I played them on another device (more often than not my car stereo). I finally got a pair of Yamaha hs8s for my birthday this week, setup the listening area with some sound treatment and instantly I noticed a huge difference. I could easily pick out what was too Loud and what was lacking in the mix, I've even gone back to the drawing board with some of the takes because I could now pick out some of the less obvious trouble areas in the initial recordings. the monitors aren't even that expensive. should have gotten some years ago
Monitors do add color in a way similar to that of headphones; the environment in which the speakers operate are a delicate matter. The distance and angle of studio monitors should be carefully considered, coupled with the studio's sound isolation technique. While I do acknowledge that really flat headphones are difficult to come by (especially in the inexpensive variety), one of the main reasons why I tend to use (closed back) headphones is that I can conveniently bring my “studio” wherever I want. But ultimately, if you have the time and resources to setup a proper studio, monitor speakers are highly recommended if not a must.
Yeah, circumstances are probably what caused the vote to go the way it did. I have kids and live in a small apartment. I can only really record and mix at night and there's no chance whatsoever I could do it on monitors. Headphones suck, but it's my only option.
Once you get used to mixing on headphones (and, preferably, always referencing through several other means - yes, even phones and laptop speakers), you learn how to get around most of its shortcomings.
I'd say it's true even to monitors - I've changed models and brands before and, at first, the mixes tend to suck, until you "get" the new sound and from then on it's smooth sailing.
Even though I have a nice pair of Mackies, I tend to do most of my mixing on headphones nowadays, using the monitors only occasionally. Main reasons are that I can do it at much lower volume levels overall, so I don't bother other people and my ears tend to fatigue way, way slower; headphones is how most people are listening to music nowadays. From experience, getting a nice sounding stereo field on headphones and then tweaking so it works nice on the monitors gives me a richer and nicer headphone sound than going the other way around. I could probably learn how to replicate it, if I needed, though.
Get etymotic.
My ears are still in elementary school.
Quiz on Friday..
Definite improvement on guitar sound with the KRK and with the Yamaha mix there is a nice top end sizzle which sounds great on the drums but not so great when I heard the guitar solo'd. The first speakers mix really did sound a bit lifeless, so can only imagine they have some inherit mid cut
Love the video man! Nice work. Surprised to say I love the LP-6 here the most haha
Ok,
Evaluation made via
Apple TV > via HDMI>Oppo BDP-103>Conrad Johnson PV14L>Acurus 200xfive>JM Labs Spectral 913 w Emotiva basx12
1) Yamaha - simply most realistic
2) Kali - just slightly pulled back
3) KRK - slight exaggeration in the upper mid and a lil sizzle on the tweeter
They all sounded solid. Better than $50 Apple ear buds are ever going to get you.
"Taking the room and reflections out of the equation" is precisely why I use headphones. It's not ideal, but for your average zero-budgeter like me it's a lot more realistic a proposition sticking on headphones than properly acoustically treating a room ("properly" being the key word), given 1. we likely don't know what the fuck we're doing 2. money 3. we're probably living in some rented space and the landlord won't take kindly to us putting holes in or gluing shit to the walls.
I think as important as what gear you're using (within reason) is knowing the shit out of whatever gear it is. If your ears are thoroughly acclimatised to the sound of a particular pair of speakers or headphones because you've listened to 10,000 hours of music through them, so much so that your ears and brain have effectively calibrated themselves to treat those speakers as a baseline, you're a lot less likely to make weird mixing decisions that aren't going to translate well to different systems.
any headphone recommendation for mixing?
@@MiMenteOnLine I really don't have a broad knowledge of headphones, but my main pair are Sennheiser Momentum 2.0s, which are just really really nice-sounding headphones. They're not flat-response, but I don't really understand why people use flat-response speakers/headphones as I find if I use them I tend to mix as if I'm listening to a stereo and everything ends up sounding overcooked.
Like I say though I think which headphones you're using doesn't matter as much as how well you know them. If you brain just naturally knows what a balanced mix should sound like through a particular pair of headphones because you've listened to them a hell of a lot, you'll probably mix better with them.
What's the point of mixing if every speaker sounds different?I leave my music as it is
Exactly! I record something, sounds good to me, on my shitty speakers, sounds like shit in good studio headphones, sounds like shit on iphone, sounds good on tv and Bt speaker.
Nowhere to go
Accurate monitors might help you mix for the broadest array of setups by limiting bias in any particular direction.
Hey Glenn, I'm a huge fan of 80's power and heavy metal and on most albums it really sounds like the band just sat together in the studio and they we're all being recorded simultaneously, which gives the songs such a raw and lively sound, in contrast to these overproduced, quantized and autotuned abominations. So now my band is trying a different approach for recording. For one, our drummer feels that recording by click kills the vibe, so we don't do that. However, after having recorded him we've put a metronome over his track and the results were astonishing. Second, we're not double-tracking our guitars. We DO want a fat and tight sound, but we're trying to achieve it via traditional methods that we can also apply live. And lastly we're trying to record all our tracks in one take (except the guitar solos and clean parts). We're fully aware that the results will probably be sloppy and not as perfect as if we recorded piece by piece, but we decided that this is what we're after. What do you think of it?
LOOKS LIKE HE DOESN'T SHIT A GIVE
*7 Pro Tips for Mixing With Headphones*
I use a pair of Koss Pro4S. I picked them up cheap from an electronics spares wholesaler. They class them as “reference” headphones and sound much better than a lot of the very coloured headphones that are sold in hifi and music stores.They got an “honorable mention” in some online recording magazine article, but were beaten by the Sennheiser HD650 and AKG K701 both of which cost significantly more but the money I saved I reinvested in bass strings !!
Just kidding, I put it towards my sE VR2 ribbon mics. I seriously love those things.
Anyway 7 tips for recording with headphones.
1: Mix in mono
2: _Calibrate_ your ears with some reference tracks before and refer back to them as you mix.
3: Mix in mono
4: Give yourself twice the number of breaks as you would if you were mixing with speakers. Be careful with the levels too. Not too loud.
5: Mix in mono
6: Play back your mixes on your stereo, in the car, at your mates place I would even take your mix down to a music or hifi store and listen back through their studio monitors against your reference tracks.
7: Mix in mono. In fact I master in mono too. My mastering, I mean I pick a preset in Ozone , fuck around with a bunch of settings I have no idea about, give up and reload the preset again.
Did I mention to mix in mono ??
Only at the very end do I pan the instruments and effects. Figured if it sounds good in mono, it will pan to stereo so much better. In fact I have forgotten this step a couple of times and sent stuff off. No one mentioned it to me. Goes to show how much they really listen.
Yes it can be done, but it’s a shit load harder. Don’t even waste your time on a pair of Beats or something which aren’t sold as flat response reference headphones. A quick google will narrow your choices to half a dozen specific models.
Good luck.
I was hearing more mids from the kali, more highs from the krk and all around balance from the Yamahas
I listened on KRK's, and KRK's sounded with less highs then Yamahas in this comparison. Hmm.
I was listening on a vizio sound bar in its music mode lol so it could be that too, but still goes to show that the listening experience is different for everyone
I have the opposite opinion on the Kali and KRK. To me, The Kali had more highs and the KRK had more lows. I was listening on ATH-M50x headphones though, so it may sound different from a different source.
Damn, this video is so interesting and relevant!
I personally mix using H.A.A.R.P antennas
dude me toooo omg and everytime i bounce down a track a storm forms around my house
Circle of tone suggests getting old vintage hi fi stereos as your monitors if you can’t afford new studio monitors. According to him the “flat response” of studio monitors is silly because they would all sound the same but they don’t. What do you make of that Glenn?
You can never get a system that is completely flat, but studio monitors are designed to be close. More importantly, they won't have any parts of the spectrum that are or are almost eliminated. And that's where you get issues, as you might have a problem in a frequency range the speaker cuts. And on another system that range might be very obvious. You could compensate by having multiple pairs of Hi Fi speakers and knowing where the weaknesses of each of them lie. But at that point you can get a pair of monitors for the same price and you will save space.
Circle of Tone is misinformed. Maybe what he doesn't understand is that over the whole spectrum there may only be a variation of +/- 2dB, but those variations happen at different places for different speakers. That is why even flat speakers don't sound exactly the same. A deviation of 1dB is audible. For some, even as low as 0.5dB, is audible. With few exceptions, vintage speakers are generally not as flat as modern monitors. I suggest he read Floyd Toole's Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms.
Circle of Tone is a troll. Just ignore him. He says all kinds of stupid shit to get attention.
I think there is merit in looking into some very select speaker models, especially in some situations, but the way it was "sold" in that video struck me as disingenuous.
Ive heard that but want to know, how old is vintage? I use hi fi speakers built in the early 90's, [audioline] are they vintage yet?
Most noticeable difference in the mix where the low end and high frequencies taming (at least to my ears, listening on a DT-770).
For the low-end : The KRK mix sounded uneven (feels like there is conflicting stuff around 100-120Hz). The others mixes had some build-up too but lower around 50Hz and on my sound system it seems like the HS7 mix is not boosted as much the LP6 mix.
I wish i could get a better picture with my monitors but my room is too small (so i have a lot of low-frequency building/cancelling in the corners of the room :/).
For the high-end : The KRK and HS7 sounded nice (feels like there is slightly more compression on the KRK) but i fear the tweeters are REALLY harsh on the LP6 => The cymbals sounded so far away, like there is a big cut around 8KHz-10Khz. I mean, the DT-770 is known to be flattering around that range so if it sounds far away on those headphones, i fear some listeners don't even hear the details on the cymbals on lower-end speakers.
If you do another one, could we also get the reference mix to refresh our ears before switching directly from one mix to another ? would be great :)
Anyway nice video, thanks Glenn.
The KRK mix sounded a little bit more bassy on my system. Most noticeable in the kick drum. Highs were a little bit softer/unpronounced but not drastically.
The Kali mix sound very round and balanced, little bit less low end and more pronounced highs. Felt a little bit cold compared to the other two but also the most flat and honest.
The Yamaha mix sounded really good with the perfect amount of low end and high end. I got the impression that the mix sounded a little bit like it got the smiley face-eq treatment but also not in a huge way.
I like the Kali and Yamaha the best, which is crazy considering their price points
I preferred the KRK from the 3 but I think the Kali and KRKs are pretty similar. I recently went from KRKs to the HS7s because I thought I was "upgrading" monitors basically off of price point. I feel like the HS7s don't accurately reproduce the low end especially on Kick drum. I'm going back to KRKs.
99% of a "good mix" is writing a song people want listen to.
Sorry all...but if your mix environment isn't flat... none of this matters. The biggest myth of home mixing is that you can do it without a treated room.
My 90's Kenwoods say the Yamaha's just edge it over KRK's, noticeable on the lower end of the guitar but moreover massive respect for the stereo image, especially the drums.
My opinion on the 3 mixes:
1- KRK;
It’s very beefy, lots of low end information, less details.
2- HS7;
Transient is very high that makes me feel the overall sound is too plasticky
3- LP 6;
Less beefy, moderate transients yet more details.
I can’t tell about the stereo image of all 3 sets cause i’m not listening to them directly but as far as i can get from my good trusty headphones, i’m into Kali Audio sounding
"as far as I can get on my good trusty headphones" . Looks at headphones on profile picture. Bro you're making this TOO EASY 😂😂
Give me an HD650 and I’ll give you a decently (professional) mixed song.
I have a pair too and to be honest I'd rather mix a song with those than with a pair of monitors that I'm not familiar with. Will Putney even mixed a record with HD800's that hit the charts in Australia IIRC.
Sure. it's not about what CAN be done. it's about what's best to do. i can mix better on my crappy rockit 5's than i could on better monitors right now too. because i'm familiar with them and have put the work in. that doesn't mean that i couldn't make better mixes once i got familiar with better monitors. if someone is familiar with whatever speakers their listening on, and reference on other speakers/environments anything can be done. the point is... all things being equal, which way works better?
Slaves Forging if it a matter of getting used to so there’s no “better” and the fact is, I really do mix on everything, monitors, headphones and to me it doesn’t matter, but then again, that’s me
hd800 is shit very inaccurate shitty 6k peak and recessed mids.
Hd650 is overall much better but a bit dark. Hd58x with bass mod(lower the bass) is the most accurate for me. hifiman ananda is accurate too.
But etymotic er4sr is the best.
Sennheiser HD650 are the best headphones for mixing no doubt about it
Krk seen in every hip hop beat making video on RUclips. Lol lemmings.
I literally gave a like becuase the recording was great. I like all music, but a lot of not mainstream rock bands just sound like guys trying to be hard core and making noise. These guys sound great, clean, and I could feel the music.
I like the sound of the KRK R6 speakers best. Fuller low end, but not boomy. Thanks for sharing with us Glen!!!!!
Just pulled the trigger on a pair of the LP6's- thank you Glenn! I was mixing on headphones and using sonar works but I figured it was time for an upgrade