Ok you can “theoretically” cap gear from flying around but because there is. 3:1 conversion ratio, you need: 3x3x3x60x13=21,060 weathered crests, which is a lot of flying around. If we assume generously that it’s 5 weathered crests per minute, then fully gearing from flying would take about 4000 minutes, which is around 70 hours of flying around. While boring, that’s actually not ridiculous…. Of course this is slower with fewer crests per minute - I don’t know what the real number is.
@@JoshuaHamberger interesting math. You will get a LOT more than 5 a minute too if there is no competition. And you wouldn't need full gear upgraded anyway on likely any character. I may try it just to craft one item and see how long it takes. Sounds fun!
@@heythereguysitsMetro OK I tried this out for about 20 minutes. I got about 70 weathered crests. Just a few notes - these are very much being contested right now - the only zone I found any crests in is Isle of Dorn, and even there, there were plenty of people flying around grabbing them. I am also on a high pop server (not full), so I suppose fewer people although I know they have the phasing systems and whatever. At any rate, I'd rather farm M+ than fly around like this for hours. You need 27 x 60 = 1620 weathered crests for even one crafted 636 piece. Perhaps I could see doing this in downtime rather than just running around Dornogal, though personally I still think I couldn't stomach it.
The dread of +8 players now having to play with other +8 level players instead of getting boosted by gear capped people tells you a lot about the mentality of these players. 😭
eh I'll still run 8's maybe 10's, I can toss something on the other monitor and complete them. the 4 extra crest from a depleted 12 Isn't worth time spent in que hoping to get Invited.
Great changes, but you should also be awarded bonus crests based on the number of crests you're missing from the cap. That would make playing alts considerably less grindy.
I don't think it's fair for alts to be less grindy honestly. If you are choosing to play them you shouldn't expect them to be as geared as your main for no additional effort.
This is way more than I expected they'd do. Hopefully affects more finished runs too. I'll def play more than 2 chars in s2. Majority of seasons I've done m+ on 4-6 chars, so these s1 changes really nerfed my interest. Good to see them return to sensibility.
A big issue I have with the current Mplus system is that IO doesn't really feel rewarding enough to push. I am currently almost 3300 IO. I haven't needed crests in weeks because of the random RNG from the vault and I only have completed the first 4 mplus bosses. I would love be able to use crests to upgrade to myth track gear, you get the mount at 2k and the awful skin at 2.5k, and the top .1 percent title at the end. My desire to push anything higher has dropped to a 0 I haven't done a key in like two weeks because now it just feels like its for self-gratification and no more tangible rewards. TLDR I don't like feeling "progression" capped, I like the dopamine hit from getting gear upgrades but it only comes in a weekly vault now.
@@wink180 wild thing for some one in title range to say score is not rewarding lol... But at the end of the day I agree that they need to create a system where you can get mythic track gear from keys.
Imo they also should change the point system. The difference between a 0 and 2 is like the difference between a 2 and 11/12 I think. Like if you time all 2s you're basically at 1600 but getting to 3200 means you need almost all 12s or 13s even
@@heythereguysitsMetro I may have it right now , but season 2 isn't for the next couple of months and I imagine I'm going to get pushed out of it .Tbh I can't even get invited to 15's to push any higher and pushing my own key is a up and downhill battle alot of the time. People want 3500 players who have all timed 15's. I think the crest changes are awesome. I just feel like upper end needed a little something more because a title just feels lazy to me for the amount of work it takes to maintain it. Also sitting in group finder for hours getting spam declined from 15's has also killed it for me. I really do wish there some sort of que system.
@@LordCartmanGaming I have all 14's timed and 3 15's and I'm 3223 I guess saying 3300 was embellishing a bit. Even at that IO I'm getting spammed declined from 15's its been even worse since the leaver change.
@@wink180 Oh wow, I thought 12s and 13s are enough for 3300. Damn, sorry to hear you are getting declined. I think Blizz needs more changes regarding key depletion as well so key holders will not be that picky.
All very welcome changes, glad they're doing it, just wish they didn't have to wait for half the playerbase to stop playing on every season to start making these healthy updates.
@@lucasbuttenbender ya don't look at it this way. This is a change for season two coming early. Has nothing to do with half the player base doing anything although I'd be curious where you got that figure?
@@heythereguysitsMetro I'm very happy for these changes, but so far there hasn't been any comment or post confirming that all of these will continue into season 2. What I can say is that if these all do end up staying, I will be very excited to play. And about the player base stopping to play, I meant it mostly as an expression. Within my circle of people (from portals only players to high score pushers) over 80% of them have already gotten tired or given up on playing this season.
I'm just now getting into the +8 range and most groups are high score players farming crests. Hoping that this change eases that and makes it easier to find people actually wanting to get score from those 8's.
It's been so much easier filling my +10 keys than my +11 or +12 keys the past few weeks. Increasing crests up to +12 will definitely help this. I have a goal of 3000io and this will help me get more and better players to fill my keys.
Building on the idea of M+ players getting myth track loot, spending crests to upgrade a max leveled hero track item wouldn't be such a bad system. It would add less dependence on the vault for valuable upgrades and requiring a max leveled item puts a 30 crest tax on it so it's something you'd probably build towards the end of the season when crests are more plentiful
Ya I think it's the best solution personally. Feels like if everyone has to choose crafting or upgrading hero track, most people still choose crafting early. But after months of still being stuck with some hero track items like trinkets and tier, it seems like there needs to be a better solution.
I actually do engage with the upgrading of crests. Well, now I'm finished with renown but I still do some weekly quests and stuff that award carved and runed crests so I do end up with a bit of extra ones to upgrade. So I'm all for this change. Btw I joined your discord so I'm just letting you know here like you said. I'll do the full intro over there in the channel.
This is cool but dosent fix my issue personally. I have not been capped by crests except for once this season (i hit the heroic crest cap at the start of the season). However i only M+ so im always capped by valorstones. Good or bad it makes no sense that currently if i push 2 dungeons they give me enough gilded crests to upgrade a piece 1 time, but i need to do 2 more dungeons after that to get the valorstones needed to actually increase the ilvl. If they dont remove or increase the valorstone gain then ill still be in the same boat ive been in all season. Sucks that i get 1 myth piece a week and have 200+ crests but can only upgrade it 2 times because im starving for valorstones. They serve no point for upgrading and need to be removed tbh. The 636 for achive is a nice change though and hopefully they keep it for next season
@heythereguysitsMetro the issue is that as a M+ only player I don't want to do other content. I don't like having to slam lfg norms or world quests or bad lfr ect... to get the valorstones to upgrade my gear. If I can get over 15 crests in 2 dungeons I should also get over 190 valorstones in 2 dungeons. If I pull a 623 piece out of vault and I have 200 gilded crests I should be able to slam it to 639, not 629 because I'm missing valorstones.
These are definitely good moves, and it's nice to see Blizzard try something. I would still like to see a vendor that you can "gamble" gear slots with a currency dropped from mythic+ to help target items. Also, there is a lot of hate on the timer. I think there is an opportunity to keep it by moving it +10 or higher keys. That way, you allow players to dip their toes into affixes, pacing, and routes without time pressure. This shouldnt effect high end players, it will just allow more real mythic experience for newer ones.
I would not be in favor of this. The timer is mythic plus. People need to learn and try to work within in the second they start. This is partially why they added delves and mythic zero as it is. They have said that if you don't want timers, then you should do that content.
@heythereguysitsMetro I dont know, to say if you don't want a timer, go do deleves and mythic 0 is silly. I thought a lot of peoples issues were "deleve gear players jumping into 6's and up with no xp. There seems to be no path for progression if the answer is only do deleves and mythic 0 if u don't want timers. I think it's going to stay an issue if nothing is put into place to allow a more forgiving transition. I guess it's a hot take, but they could even do something like dropping the -15 death plenty, and that affix could just be the clock.
Idk how but there should be a way to get myth track from mythic +. Been said to death I know but being solely at the mercy of the vault sucks. Idk if they can do like empowered keys, like bountiful delves or just make hero track upgrade to myth with a item or what but they need to do something. Maybe they delay it each season till the race to world first is over so they can't say it would have an impact.
Honestly, this is an amazing change in my book, I would either remove valor or add a way to upgrade gear from hero to mythic with french tons of valor+crest, that's the only nitpick I have
I’m still a fan of no affixes. Even if they worked this is better. If we never improved things because the old way worked we’d still be in caves. These are good changes. I’m with you that I don’t understand the need for reducing crests. Where’s the gold changes?
The crest change for timing higher keys and losing slightly less for depletion is already a big win in my eyes. Hopefully, there's less friction about people leaving keys. Unfortunately holidays are coming up so I can't really play but it'll be nice since this will continue on to Season 2.
Working on getting my monk alt up to my shaman i felt this pain and it's a great change. Also as someone working 3k io its nice to be awarded for my time. Gone 53 gold for timing 12s
idk I couldnt upgrade everything... if you could re use the crests from crafted items maybe. But I crafted a back because I didnt think I would get that rare back from mythic raid. I really dont understand the point of the crest system, every difficulty should have its own ilvl drops and thats it... its honestly so annoying having to check every website for logs until you can inv someone.
@@heythereguysitsMetro alot of players are actually boosted, like they literally buy boosts and sign up for +10 weeklys because they are too cheap to buy them again lol. I dont think theyll rip the key but I dont see a reason to play with boosted players.
I agree, getting a reasonable amount of crests (i.e. more) would have been very aggressive at the start of a season. Can't imagine how dead this season of M+ would have been if they just gave us more crests without "testing" it, instead of letting it flourish at 12 crests a run and 15 per upgrade, like it is now.
@Frawt how so? There's a weekly cap on crests. Getting more per run would allow players coming in late to the season or playing alts to catch up much faster. I don't see a downside myself
@@Frawt it's a reasonable amount now. They would likely have to change all the other stuff if you wanted it to be higher, as you see by the rest of the post and their changes. This was not something that was going to come one week into a season. No need to lie to yourself here tbh. It's a good change but it's a huge one.
I like this change, I made a dps alt and another tank alt and it has basically been impossible to get invited into +8’s even with my tank alt and dps having my mains IO attached to them while I agree they are in the lower side of gear 610 range I feel like an 8 is fairly easy with that gear but I was surprise to see I was not getting invited on tank role even though there’s like 15 people that still playing tank at this point in the season 😂. But I get it why take me when you can take a 630 tank or dps that are going to blast through your 8. Hopefully this makes it better.
That idea that no one plays tank is just a myth bad DPS tell themselves. Tank is and has been a famous role for getting quick invites. Anyone who is aware of that notion will consider playing a tank because of it. It's not always their main role, but it's enough interest that there is never a shortage.
@ I know I just meant at this point in the season. I main tank myself but a lot of people have disliked tanking this season with the tank nerfs and m+ changes. This season seems to be super quiet already and lots of groups are formed for quite a while before getting a tank or healer.
I care about getting more crestsAND score. I wasnt capped on crests cause i didnt want to farm them. I wanted to push keys and failing some just to get 5 was just the icing on the cake to demotivate my group and cause us to just stop caring about pushing cause you aren't even getting more gear, etc. i am genuinely excited for next week now
Gilded crest should drop from +2 starting with 2 crests and go up +1 with each key level, plus some more when affixes kick in. Let delve people upgrade their hero track gear to 6/6 in low keys. Forcing everyone to +8 is bad design. Make low keys valuable for people with lower skill ceilings. Everything below +8 is "useless". No one is doing a +7 for runed crests.
@@nilohermes6447 this is all moot with how generous they have become with upscaling the currency. But gilded is never dropping from a 2 let's be serious here.
@@dariasraven I think the death affix will be gone but the kick changes are for the health of the system. We would need massive class changes if we want them to be undone considering how dominate classes like paladin and demon hunter tank have been with their interrupts.
As someone that has been worn out from Blizzard not doing anything or always doing the opposite of what the community wants, this one is a W. I'm not sure why it takes 20 years to figure out these extremely complex things (sarcasm) but here we are, I won't hold my breath though for any additional improvements. I hope they prove me wrong! Next change I would like to see is DPS players being punished for taking avoidable damage in the form of a debuff that reduces their damage.
@@heythereguysitsMetro I don't recall where I heard that idea from originally but its an interesting one. The point of that change would be to try and get the group to work together more and not put all the responsibility on the tank / healer. Everyone wants to play DPS because it is the easiest role, and all too often DPS players are solely focused on their damage and not dealing with mechanics or interrupts which results in the healer having to heal more. I don't know if this is the actual solution nor do I believe this to be as big of a deal at higher levels.
great take, looking forward to the crest changes when they're more relevant next season i'm also looking forward to siren isle since i loved mechagon. if m+ gets a little boost in player opinion that'd be cool. i didn't have any issues with the systems this season. at the start of the season i got a kick out of people being upset that gear was harder to reach-the best stuff should take more effort or else what can you aspire to?
Bro these changes are mind blowing. When I was first told about them my first words were “holy sh!t, are these common sense changes coming from a company based out of California? Never thought I’d see the day”. But honestly all these changes are big W changes. Appreciate you metro and all of the other content creators who have been pumping out the videos to hopefully get blizz’s eyes on the current dysfunctional state of m+ rewards.
Love your videos. Always excited when you post. I get to sit down with my breakfast and I love what you have to say. I like how you're able to kind of view it from Blizzard's side too, because I definitely struggle to but you're so right. I'm looking forward to the changes as well :)
@@renc2930 means a lot to hear you recognize that perspective i have and that I'm able to see it from blizzards eyes. We all really do need to do so when we give feedback on things if we want them to take us seriously!
If I were blizzard I would be putting as much manpower towards fleshing out M+ seeing as it's the best system they have ever added on top of it being the most played. I mean you could disagree with the current dungeons in the season pool but you kind of have to admit M+ is going in the right direction. If they continue to make good impactful changes and don't take massive leaps backwards. M+ might be in the best spot it has ever been in by the next expansion. Once Blizzard gets M+ sorted out it could eventually move on to fixing PvP.
I don't think you can say Blizzard understood that it was a problem when the changes we're only implemented after basically an uproar in the last week of content creators saying the way it was previous setup was designed horribly, with thousands of comments backing them from actual players. If all these videos weren't made calling out such stupid design do you really think such a change would have happened? You give them too much credit. If Blizzard understood at a ground level from the beginning how having such a thing such as setting the crafting ilvl to a max of 636 knowing that the achievement would be set at a much higher bar to accomplish at 639, which is already pretty much luck based, then this change would have happened much earlier; Aside from having differing agendas and other reasonings to have it setup that way. At any rate, it really shouldn't be up to the player base to have an "uprising" in a sense to show Blizzard that something is obviously not working out. I'm not saying they can't make mistakes, I'm saying an oversight like this kinda not okay considering some of these people get paid in the hundreds of thousands to not make these decisions. That's just my cents. P.S. I'm not going to totally discredit Blizzard as a whole, despite the overall consensus of most players I'm enjoying this expac quite a bit and they ARE making big strides in the right direction. :)
I was just talking about the words they are using. To me those words indicate they fully understand the issue. I brought that up because many times they do make changes based on outcry and say things that don't indicate they understood why they needed to make these changes. That's all I was saying.
@ Ah I see then I may have mistaken what your take actually was then, I agree they understood what the problem specifically was in this instance, but nevertheless they still often miss the mark on implementing certain things properly before it hits the live game. Either way it’s their game and would be way less of a problem if they designed the game how they wanted it to be played and just made everyone abide by it or don’t play unfortunately I think it would be difficult to maintain the player base. Would still make things way more simple lol.
I’m only mildly interested in this because it shows they’re listening, other than that it’s too little too late. They are being way too restrictive and they know it, pulling shady little rip cords after we’ve already dropped out of the game isn’t going to do anything.
I'm not sure why people keep thinking this has something to do with players quitting. It's just a change a lot of people who still play the game were asking for. They make those to make systems better, kinda often man. It's not all about you and whatever your little protest is here and it's certainly not in any way "shady." This is a great change and one many of us have wanted the whole time.
I see this as a positive step forward. I kind of had this idea back when the "world soul trilogy" was announced that Blizzard was going to do a super massive game changing overhaul in all it's systems by doing baby steps pretty much every patch (with the goal of getting to the finish line of the massive changes still in their sights) that move them towards their goal of massive system defining changes. The reason to do this is simple, by going with slow baby steps over a 3 expansion planned overhaul, they get to not only test the changes and make changes to things that may not work as well as they wanted them to conceptually, but they get to spoon feed the changes in small enough bites to the community that there won't be these (at least hopefully there won't)) "Oh Blizzard is changing something and ruining the game Wah! Wah! Baby wants bottle! Wah! Wah" from the toxic content creators (Especially he who shall not be named). This way the changes are small and subtle enough but still move us towards where Blizzard wants to end up, that by the time we reach the end of "The Last Titan" the game will not even resemble what we had in say Shadowlands and even Dragonflight (in a positive way) and no one will be able to complain about it because it all happened under their noses.
@@heythereguysitsMetro Apologies, re-reading that it sounds far harsher than I meant it to, but yeah it just hit me today when I was scrolling through Gxxkc's discord (for something unrelated) and listening to your stream in the background, thinking about all the harsh course corrections Blizzard has had to do, all the frivolous community complaints, and the idea of doing such a massive story over such a long period being the perfect opportunity.
You also get that currency when you are capped from gilded in highest keys. Quite common opening weeks, and especially more common now that you will only need four keys to cap next season.
these changes seem ok for your main. but is still no where near enough of a change to warrant playing an alt seriously. it seems like they watched Quazis video lol these changes are straight from him M+ video. do you know if these changes are staying for the next seasojn?
this is good. respecting player time more is always good. gj blizz. W. I also enjoyed your punting gnomes jokes. a good throwback to the old wow days haha.
you need to remove crest gain from non timed runs to promote correct gameplay and not cover up bad gameplay. If teddy has the same gear score as me because he failed 50x more keys its an issue.
I don't agree it is as people CONSTANTLY tell me I'm in a very small minority of people who push keys for something other than just score. If this is true then that means no one actually cares about crests anyway, so they need to add as many incentives as possible to finish keys.
...why is it an issue? A bad player will do less damage at the same item level, which - when that happens - makes me feel good about myself. I guess you're really bad though, and probably boosted to timed runs by your friends, since the only way you feel better is when you beat people on damage when you out-gear them. Like, I genuinely could not care about what item level some guy who sucks at the game has. If his gameplay is bad, that'll show. Why tf would I care...? Why tf do you?
I won't be convinced that this is anything but a stopgap to keep people playing in this season unless these changes are kept going forward into the new season. I hope they are, but I am afraid they will simply backtrack.
I always downgrade my keys to 10 and no matter what changes they do. I am not going to run any 11s and 12s. It's much more likely the 10 actually completes without people leaving.
In my experience, 8 extra crests wouldn't have been enough to justify the extra effort needed to finish any failed +12s this season. First if you're serious about m+ you farm your gilded crests cap early to get your upgrades to do your +12s, so mostly by the time you're doing +12s you're already capped for the week. Speaking generally about the expenditure of my energy/will to play, I'd always have rather gone and done two +8s than slog through a +12 and potentially end up spending 40+ mins in there. I don't think they're bad changes I judt don't think they make much difference.
I do believe these changes are a step into the right direction. At the very least, Blizzard has been listening and watching feedback regarding M+ and they know something must change. I just don’t think this is enough. I agree and see your point. But I also I want to add to this, playing devil’s advocate. If I’m pugging and I can complete 4 +8s in an hour. Or even 3 per hour. I would get more from that hour of play than potentially going into a +12, even though I can complete 12s and potentially not timing that key. An untimed 12 is the same as a current timed 12. While that’s better, if I am looking for Gilded crests per hour per effort spent, and it takes x longer to complete a 12 with a higher depletion rate- I would not be incentivized to run that 12 for crests. This continues to be true if I want to very quick 4 or 5s instead of a 7. However, if you can complete the 7 as fast as a 4, then obviously your crest per hour per effort is worth the 7 for Runed. And even then, you could run a 7 very quickly and just trade up to Gilded. You wouldn’t really need to run anything else until you out gear the 10s, if you wanted. Good changes overall but I don’t believe it addresses the core problems. I actually really Metro’s idea about using Nascent crests to upgrade paths of gear. That would be very helpful and a welcome change.
Where are you getting this notion that serious players need to farm low keys early to upgrade their gear first before they progress? You get crests from the keys themselves you succeed in, so why would you waste your time with that? just get right to progression and get your crests that way. That's what I do anyway. Would you say I'm not serious about M+?
@@jonathanwynne6925Yeah, there are some DEMONS in 8s. I sometimes feel 12s are borderline easier than 8s, 'cause the skill level is much higher on average, and there's no obnoxious affixes.
This is great but not enough, still doesn't fix the main issues. I think they are taking baby steps here again to see how people react. Also it's great that season 2 starts like this but definitely more has to be done.
@@heythereguysitsMetro Crests included, purpose of valorstone as it is right now makes no sense to me, they should either remove it or let us buy gear with it. Raid bosses and trash should drop more of them. What i meant is that tanks should be buffed (nerfes reverted), healers should be buffed, graveyards should be available after each boss in keys, depletion needs to die and more. They should look at pain points and try to solve them, and right now one of the biggest issues (among many others) is that there are not enough tanks and probably healers so why were they nerfed? why are they not rewarded more for doing more / harder jobs? I was watching the Bench Podcast the other day with tettles and growl and they were making some very weird arguments as why depletion needs to exist. They said if blizzard removes depletion then it'll be harder for pugs to find groups and lfg will be even worse which is 100% wrong, max and quazi were also against removing depletion tough i think it was for different reasons. depletion is the number one reason for anxiety and toxicity and they confuse not having it with being able to choose whatever key you want which again makes no sense. Blizzard should simply remove depletion and keep the rng of the key. Yoda also suggested a very confusing dust system which again just complicates an already complicated game for absolutely no reason. This system as it is right now feels like it's made for 0.1% of the top key pushers and this portion of players are unfortunately the loudest and if blizzard truely wants to improve m+ they should stop listening to them. boy i wrote a lot!
@@HoomanMahdavi-c4q ya sadly all that stuff has nothing to do with this change haha. This was just them making changes to crests from mythic plus. Doesn't mean they aren't doing other stuff too! It just won't be coming until season 2.
@@heythereguysitsMetro Why make those changes now? they see something is wrong (participation numbers in keys most likely) and decide to make some changes which are good but not enough. I hope more changes are on the way cuz it's desperately needed.
@@HoomanMahdavi-c4q They are making them for season 2, and appear to want to test them out first so they are pushing them for season 1 now that it's progression cycle is over. The changes you suggest are far more significant and can not just come in the middle of a season obviously.
nothing really changed. still needs +60 runs for 1000 gilded and valorstones are not buffed or removed. only good change is the harbinger achievment and 60 for crafted. this change will not bring the players back or save season 2.
I think +2 per key level with 8s effectively dropping 2 less, is a very poor decision. You get more starting with timed 10s. Newsflash, this is where most people stop playing. This change once again is completely out of touch. Why have a cap and insultingly low crest gain. Either no cap from the start or make it 15 at 8 and +5 crest per key level. Like anybody cares if I get my cap in 1 key or 12. If they start without a cap (not sure as it said this is the starting point of s2 and no cap in the same post) the slow acquisition is ofc fine.
They need to add an item that upgrades M+ hero track loot to myth track. Put it on the vendor for the great vault, and make it cost 2 weeks of full currency from the vault
Yes please!! I’m getting the same shitty trinket from vault 4 weeks in a row, plus other mostly useless items. I cannot even get more crafted items or sockets… bad vault feels horrible, I kinda dont even want to play after. I only play m+ dont wanna raid so I am stuck now 5-6 ilvls below raiders who as a result have an easier time pushing keys as well…
@@josephandrees5381 I like that idea too but I'd much prefer it be from something you can actually obtain from finishing keys. The currency seems appropriate.
@@heythereguysitsMetro you can though. If you're fishing for a specific item, you can just take currency and pool it for the following week. Guaranteeing you get the 639 piece you want after 2 weeks feels fair.
@@josephandrees5381 I am getting literally useless loot multiple weeks in a row. My point was that I get even the same pieces repeatedly such as that specific trinket I mentioned that I don't want. I can tolerate a dps loss, I don't feel like my gear is limiting me yet except for if I want to pug then higher ilvl means more invites usually. But mainly it feels really bad to be at the mercy of RNG especially when I have literally a single chance per week for getting an upgrade. That's why I agreed with your idea. It would be great if for example next week I again get 3 suboptimal or even useless options then I could just choose a currency to work towards upgrading some of my remaining pieces that I already have on hero track.
That's a big win but it's way too late. If they listened to player feedback the same way GGG does with PoE 2, all of this would have been fixed weeks ago. Blizzard keeps letting us down severely, the wow team is enormous compared to GGG and there is no reason for them to keep a season broken halfway through. My entire team already quit because of the crest farm and the cliff from 11 to 12; that's not enough to bring anybody back. It's may be enough to bring them back for season 2 but that's all.
@@VDHmain that's a bad perspective to have. They are simply making a change and bringing it in early to test it out here. Season 1 was balanced around it's current state, so honestly anyone who quit over that isn't really fit for the system anyway. These changes are good, but season 1 was fine too.
Good step forward but still not good enough. When you're stuck at the 4-7 level because of gear, this change is bleh. Just get rid of the crest penalty. Already burning a hole in your pocket with lost gold during these runs
What are you talking about? If you can’t do 8s-10 keys with all 619 gear which is what 4-7s keys provide than it’s a skill problem. And this made it much easier to level up your gear to 619 so you can do 8s and up for gilded crests!
Also what gold expenses do people have in a 7? Consumes are pretty optional until at least 10+ while undergeared. And with the sheer amount of sparks for crafted gear, and uncapped crests, if you are going into 10+ keys undergeared it’s because you are too lazy to farm gilded crests in +8’s rn. After these changes sure going into harder keys might be more worth it but at the current point in the season there’s zero reason to need consumables in the 4-7 range outside of the desire to exchange a very minor amount of gold for a slightly faster crest farm.
@@heythereguysitsMetroI need runed crests to upgrade my gear. I'm only 613 right now and don't play often enough. I'm not going to get invited to anything higher than a +7
@@grimfocusgaming4391when you're pugging, you can get into some pretty shit groups making the dumbest mistakes possible. Even as a decent healer, you cannot prevent all of the dumb mistakes
Oh wow you think my channel is representative of the entirety of the playerbase of wow? That's one of the kindest and dumbest things I have ever seen someone said. Thank you in both directions!
Good but late and not enough. 1) There should be no crest punishment for failing the timer 2) Keys should not degrade when failing the timer, at least they should have a few charges before degrading 3) Instances are still way overtuned and unforgiving, they are not fun to play for average players at the myth vault level.
@@Zka77-e1f this is just about crests. Idk why you expected them to nerf dungeons at the same time they are announcing that but that was never going to happen. Either way, I would use that difficulty as encouragement to improve. The system is meant to be hard and once you approach it properly you will have a new perspective on the game and, dare I say, maybe even life.
@@heythereguysitsMetro I agree with both of you, this content is meant to be challenging and require actual coordination and effort to get the highest level gear, but it's also just too punishing for what it is as well and really boosts a toxic and picky atmosphere, punishing key holders for making a bad pug pick and punishing classes that aren't in the meta even if they're still good.
3 things are missing: 1. 12+ should be dropping mythic track 2. crafted gear should have been buffed to 639 instead 3. we should get refund of 30 gilded crests for each nascent gilded we spent 90 crests on
honestly, they should just push this live asap. why wait til next week. make the game fun asap rather than risk losing more ppl in the few days before it. m+ participation is low atm. tons of ppl quitting plus with the ring not being an actual better ring til just a couple weeks before season two. i dont get blizzard sometimes lol.
Ok you can “theoretically” cap gear from flying around but because there is. 3:1 conversion ratio, you need:
3x3x3x60x13=21,060 weathered crests, which is a lot of flying around. If we assume generously that it’s 5 weathered crests per minute, then fully gearing from flying would take about 4000 minutes, which is around 70 hours of flying around. While boring, that’s actually not ridiculous…. Of course this is slower with fewer crests per minute - I don’t know what the real number is.
@@JoshuaHamberger interesting math. You will get a LOT more than 5 a minute too if there is no competition. And you wouldn't need full gear upgraded anyway on likely any character. I may try it just to craft one item and see how long it takes. Sounds fun!
@@heythereguysitsMetro OK I tried this out for about 20 minutes. I got about 70 weathered crests. Just a few notes - these are very much being contested right now - the only zone I found any crests in is Isle of Dorn, and even there, there were plenty of people flying around grabbing them. I am also on a high pop server (not full), so I suppose fewer people although I know they have the phasing systems and whatever. At any rate, I'd rather farm M+ than fly around like this for hours. You need 27 x 60 = 1620 weathered crests for even one crafted 636 piece. Perhaps I could see doing this in downtime rather than just running around Dornogal, though personally I still think I couldn't stomach it.
@@JoshuaHamberger cool thanks for the follow up! I'm gonna give it a try next week for sure.
The dread of +8 players now having to play with other +8 level players instead of getting boosted by gear capped people tells you a lot about the mentality of these players. 😭
@@a.s9142 haha well I don't blame them. It was something that existed for a long time.
eh I'll still run 8's maybe 10's, I can toss something on the other monitor and complete them. the 4 extra crest from a depleted 12 Isn't worth time spent in que hoping to get Invited.
Great changes, but you should also be awarded bonus crests based on the number of crests you're missing from the cap. That would make playing alts considerably less grindy.
I don't think it's fair for alts to be less grindy honestly. If you are choosing to play them you shouldn't expect them to be as geared as your main for no additional effort.
This is way more than I expected they'd do. Hopefully affects more finished runs too. I'll def play more than 2 chars in s2. Majority of seasons I've done m+ on 4-6 chars, so these s1 changes really nerfed my interest. Good to see them return to sensibility.
@@Ougagagoubou ya this is huge too because it means they are constantly looking for ways to improve completion rate.
A big issue I have with the current Mplus system is that IO doesn't really feel rewarding enough to push. I am currently almost 3300 IO. I haven't needed crests in weeks because of the random RNG from the vault and I only have completed the first 4 mplus bosses. I would love be able to use crests to upgrade to myth track gear, you get the mount at 2k and the awful skin at 2.5k, and the top .1 percent title at the end. My desire to push anything higher has dropped to a 0 I haven't done a key in like two weeks because now it just feels like its for self-gratification and no more tangible rewards. TLDR I don't like feeling "progression" capped, I like the dopamine hit from getting gear upgrades but it only comes in a weekly vault now.
@@wink180 wild thing for some one in title range to say score is not rewarding lol...
But at the end of the day I agree that they need to create a system where you can get mythic track gear from keys.
Imo they also should change the point system. The difference between a 0 and 2 is like the difference between a 2 and 11/12 I think. Like if you time all 2s you're basically at 1600 but getting to 3200 means you need almost all 12s or 13s even
@@heythereguysitsMetro I may have it right now , but season 2 isn't for the next couple of months and I imagine I'm going to get pushed out of it .Tbh I can't even get invited to 15's to push any higher and pushing my own key is a up and downhill battle alot of the time. People want 3500 players who have all timed 15's. I think the crest changes are awesome. I just feel like upper end needed a little something more because a title just feels lazy to me for the amount of work it takes to maintain it. Also sitting in group finder for hours getting spam declined from 15's has also killed it for me. I really do wish there some sort of que system.
@@LordCartmanGaming I have all 14's timed and 3 15's and I'm 3223 I guess saying 3300 was embellishing a bit. Even at that IO I'm getting spammed declined from 15's its been even worse since the leaver change.
@@wink180 Oh wow, I thought 12s and 13s are enough for 3300. Damn, sorry to hear you are getting declined. I think Blizz needs more changes regarding key depletion as well so key holders will not be that picky.
All very welcome changes, glad they're doing it, just wish they didn't have to wait for half the playerbase to stop playing on every season to start making these healthy updates.
@@lucasbuttenbender ya don't look at it this way. This is a change for season two coming early. Has nothing to do with half the player base doing anything although I'd be curious where you got that figure?
@@heythereguysitsMetro I'm very happy for these changes, but so far there hasn't been any comment or post confirming that all of these will continue into season 2. What I can say is that if these all do end up staying, I will be very excited to play.
And about the player base stopping to play, I meant it mostly as an expression. Within my circle of people (from portals only players to high score pushers) over 80% of them have already gotten tired or given up on playing this season.
@@lucasbuttenbender wut? The comment confirming is on the screen as I'm reading the post lol.
@@heythereguysitsMetro Oh yeah, it's at the beginning, you are right!
I'm now happy that I was wrong 😅
I'm just now getting into the +8 range and most groups are high score players farming crests. Hoping that this change eases that and makes it easier to find people actually wanting to get score from those 8's.
Sounds like that's one of the goals!
It's been so much easier filling my +10 keys than my +11 or +12 keys the past few weeks. Increasing crests up to +12 will definitely help this. I have a goal of 3000io and this will help me get more and better players to fill my keys.
@@MrDoctorDave I think so too!
I’m surprised they did this. It’ll help everyone across the board and if this stays for next season it’ll make things so much better at the start
Confirmed that it is staying!
Building on the idea of M+ players getting myth track loot, spending crests to upgrade a max leveled hero track item wouldn't be such a bad system. It would add less dependence on the vault for valuable upgrades and requiring a max leveled item puts a 30 crest tax on it so it's something you'd probably build towards the end of the season when crests are more plentiful
Ya I think it's the best solution personally. Feels like if everyone has to choose crafting or upgrading hero track, most people still choose crafting early. But after months of still being stuck with some hero track items like trinkets and tier, it seems like there needs to be a better solution.
I actually do engage with the upgrading of crests. Well, now I'm finished with renown but I still do some weekly quests and stuff that award carved and runed crests so I do end up with a bit of extra ones to upgrade. So I'm all for this change.
Btw I joined your discord so I'm just letting you know here like you said. I'll do the full intro over there in the channel.
@@grozmandan it's a great change for an end of the season buff. Got you set up in discord!
This is cool but dosent fix my issue personally. I have not been capped by crests except for once this season (i hit the heroic crest cap at the start of the season). However i only M+ so im always capped by valorstones.
Good or bad it makes no sense that currently if i push 2 dungeons they give me enough gilded crests to upgrade a piece 1 time, but i need to do 2 more dungeons after that to get the valorstones needed to actually increase the ilvl. If they dont remove or increase the valorstone gain then ill still be in the same boat ive been in all season.
Sucks that i get 1 myth piece a week and have 200+ crests but can only upgrade it 2 times because im starving for valorstones. They serve no point for upgrading and need to be removed tbh.
The 636 for achive is a nice change though and hopefully they keep it for next season
@@deseanroot75 valorstones can be gotten from many sources though. You shouldn't feel like you need to farm mythic plus for them.
@heythereguysitsMetro the issue is that as a M+ only player I don't want to do other content. I don't like having to slam lfg norms or world quests or bad lfr ect... to get the valorstones to upgrade my gear. If I can get over 15 crests in 2 dungeons I should also get over 190 valorstones in 2 dungeons. If I pull a 623 piece out of vault and I have 200 gilded crests I should be able to slam it to 639, not 629 because I'm missing valorstones.
@@deseanroot75 Well that's how wow works man! Sorry, but I don't see that changing.
These are definitely good moves, and it's nice to see Blizzard try something.
I would still like to see a vendor that you can "gamble" gear slots with a currency dropped from mythic+ to help target items.
Also, there is a lot of hate on the timer. I think there is an opportunity to keep it by moving it +10 or higher keys. That way, you allow players to dip their toes into affixes, pacing, and routes without time pressure. This shouldnt effect high end players, it will just allow more real mythic experience for newer ones.
I would not be in favor of this. The timer is mythic plus. People need to learn and try to work within in the second they start. This is partially why they added delves and mythic zero as it is. They have said that if you don't want timers, then you should do that content.
@heythereguysitsMetro I dont know, to say if you don't want a timer, go do deleves and mythic 0 is silly. I thought a lot of peoples issues were "deleve gear players jumping into 6's and up with no xp. There seems to be no path for progression if the answer is only do deleves and mythic 0 if u don't want timers. I think it's going to stay an issue if nothing is put into place to allow a more forgiving transition. I guess it's a hot take, but they could even do something like dropping the -15 death plenty, and that affix could just be the clock.
@@stevenm22 Can always just raid if you dont want to do timed M+ right?
i love the changes but for me it's too late, im just too burned out to touch m+ until next season
This is how it's going to work for next season too
Idk how but there should be a way to get myth track from mythic +. Been said to death I know but being solely at the mercy of the vault sucks. Idk if they can do like empowered keys, like bountiful delves or just make hero track upgrade to myth with a item or what but they need to do something. Maybe they delay it each season till the race to world first is over so they can't say it would have an impact.
Ya I gave my idea how to do this at the end. I agree they need to find a way.
Honestly, this is an amazing change in my book, I would either remove valor or add a way to upgrade gear from hero to mythic with french tons of valor+crest, that's the only nitpick I have
@@asasdsaasda ya I need to see a way to upgrade gear all the way now. It would be such a cool change.
I’m still a fan of no affixes. Even if they worked this is better. If we never improved things because the old way worked we’d still be in caves.
These are good changes. I’m with you that I don’t understand the need for reducing crests. Where’s the gold changes?
@@UncleBogator ya eager to see the gold next week!
The crest change for timing higher keys and losing slightly less for depletion is already a big win in my eyes. Hopefully, there's less friction about people leaving keys. Unfortunately holidays are coming up so I can't really play but it'll be nice since this will continue on to Season 2.
@@dragonredux ya I hope so too!
Working on getting my monk alt up to my shaman i felt this pain and it's a great change. Also as someone working 3k io its nice to be awarded for my time. Gone 53 gold for timing 12s
@@ahjington89 I'm eager to see the gold!
idk I couldnt upgrade everything... if you could re use the crests from crafted items maybe. But I crafted a back because I didnt think I would get that rare back from mythic raid.
I really dont understand the point of the crest system, every difficulty should have its own ilvl drops and thats it... its honestly so annoying having to check every website for logs until you can inv someone.
@@okCool51 what do logs have to do with this?
@@heythereguysitsMetro alot of players are actually boosted, like they literally buy boosts and sign up for +10 weeklys because they are too cheap to buy them again lol.
I dont think theyll rip the key but I dont see a reason to play with boosted players.
The crest change should of been a thing week 1 of the season. 12 just feels so bad
It would have been pretty aggressive to make this change week 1. They needed to see how it played out at first.
I agree, getting a reasonable amount of crests (i.e. more) would have been very aggressive at the start of a season. Can't imagine how dead this season of M+ would have been if they just gave us more crests without "testing" it, instead of letting it flourish at 12 crests a run and 15 per upgrade, like it is now.
@Frawt how so? There's a weekly cap on crests. Getting more per run would allow players coming in late to the season or playing alts to catch up much faster. I don't see a downside myself
@@Frawt it's a reasonable amount now. They would likely have to change all the other stuff if you wanted it to be higher, as you see by the rest of the post and their changes. This was not something that was going to come one week into a season. No need to lie to yourself here tbh. It's a good change but it's a huge one.
@@daverobert5018I was being sarcastic. :^)
I like this change, I made a dps alt and another tank alt and it has basically been impossible to get invited into +8’s even with my tank alt and dps having my mains IO attached to them while I agree they are in the lower side of gear 610 range I feel like an 8 is fairly easy with that gear but I was surprise to see I was not getting invited on tank role even though there’s like 15 people that still playing tank at this point in the season 😂. But I get it why take me when you can take a 630 tank or dps that are going to blast through your 8. Hopefully this makes it better.
That idea that no one plays tank is just a myth bad DPS tell themselves. Tank is and has been a famous role for getting quick invites. Anyone who is aware of that notion will consider playing a tank because of it. It's not always their main role, but it's enough interest that there is never a shortage.
@ I know I just meant at this point in the season. I main tank myself but a lot of people have disliked tanking this season with the tank nerfs and m+ changes. This season seems to be super quiet already and lots of groups are formed for quite a while before getting a tank or healer.
@@candulimataoo2852 Gotcha, well certainly haven't experienced that myself.
I care about getting more crestsAND score. I wasnt capped on crests cause i didnt want to farm them. I wanted to push keys and failing some just to get 5 was just the icing on the cake to demotivate my group and cause us to just stop caring about pushing cause you aren't even getting more gear, etc. i am genuinely excited for next week now
Ya it's a great change for people who want to do both at the same time!
huge changes i love them, will be waiting to get back into retail in a big way until next week
Nice, hope it works out!
Gilded crest should drop from +2 starting with 2 crests and go up +1 with each key level, plus some more when affixes kick in. Let delve people upgrade their hero track gear to 6/6 in low keys. Forcing everyone to +8 is bad design.
Make low keys valuable for people with lower skill ceilings. Everything below +8 is "useless". No one is doing a +7 for runed crests.
@@nilohermes6447 this is all moot with how generous they have become with upscaling the currency. But gilded is never dropping from a 2 let's be serious here.
It is a good start but I wish it had come sooner before a lot of the burn out happened. at least they plan to keep for season 2.
@@Thorkou ya this is basically a season two change given to us early.
Very nice to hear this! Now we just need them to remove the death tax and revert the 'kick' changes back to how they were in DF s4.
@@dariasraven I think the death affix will be gone but the kick changes are for the health of the system. We would need massive class changes if we want them to be undone considering how dominate classes like paladin and demon hunter tank have been with their interrupts.
As someone that has been worn out from Blizzard not doing anything or always doing the opposite of what the community wants, this one is a W. I'm not sure why it takes 20 years to figure out these extremely complex things (sarcasm) but here we are, I won't hold my breath though for any additional improvements. I hope they prove me wrong!
Next change I would like to see is DPS players being punished for taking avoidable damage in the form of a debuff that reduces their damage.
@@hwmtrustychords oh god that certainly won't be happening lol. But ya this is a great change!
@@heythereguysitsMetro I don't recall where I heard that idea from originally but its an interesting one. The point of that change would be to try and get the group to work together more and not put all the responsibility on the tank / healer.
Everyone wants to play DPS because it is the easiest role, and all too often DPS players are solely focused on their damage and not dealing with mechanics or interrupts which results in the healer having to heal more. I don't know if this is the actual solution nor do I believe this to be as big of a deal at higher levels.
great take, looking forward to the crest changes when they're more relevant next season
i'm also looking forward to siren isle since i loved mechagon. if m+ gets a little boost in player opinion that'd be cool. i didn't have any issues with the systems this season. at the start of the season i got a kick out of people being upset that gear was harder to reach-the best stuff should take more effort or else what can you aspire to?
@@VizerPS ya sadly a lot of entitlement from people but it's not surprising at this age of the game. I'm just happy blizzard can see through it.
Bro these changes are mind blowing. When I was first told about them my first words were “holy sh!t, are these common sense changes coming from a company based out of California? Never thought I’d see the day”. But honestly all these changes are big W changes. Appreciate you metro and all of the other content creators who have been pumping out the videos to hopefully get blizz’s eyes on the current dysfunctional state of m+ rewards.
@@grimfocusgaming4391 it's really encouraging for sure!
Love your videos. Always excited when you post. I get to sit down with my breakfast and I love what you have to say. I like how you're able to kind of view it from Blizzard's side too, because I definitely struggle to but you're so right. I'm looking forward to the changes as well :)
@@renc2930 means a lot to hear you recognize that perspective i have and that I'm able to see it from blizzards eyes.
We all really do need to do so when we give feedback on things if we want them to take us seriously!
If I were blizzard I would be putting as much manpower towards fleshing out M+ seeing as it's the best system they have ever added on top of it being the most played. I mean you could disagree with the current dungeons in the season pool but you kind of have to admit M+ is going in the right direction. If they continue to make good impactful changes and don't take massive leaps backwards. M+ might be in the best spot it has ever been in by the next expansion. Once Blizzard gets M+ sorted out it could eventually move on to fixing PvP.
I'm glad you feel that way! Mythic plus is always great in my eyes it's just hard to ever find a way it can improve that everyone agrees on.
I don't think you can say Blizzard understood that it was a problem when the changes we're only implemented after basically an uproar in the last week of content creators saying the way it was previous setup was designed horribly, with thousands of comments backing them from actual players. If all these videos weren't made calling out such stupid design do you really think such a change would have happened? You give them too much credit. If Blizzard understood at a ground level from the beginning how having such a thing such as setting the crafting ilvl to a max of 636 knowing that the achievement would be set at a much higher bar to accomplish at 639, which is already pretty much luck based, then this change would have happened much earlier; Aside from having differing agendas and other reasonings to have it setup that way. At any rate, it really shouldn't be up to the player base to have an "uprising" in a sense to show Blizzard that something is obviously not working out. I'm not saying they can't make mistakes, I'm saying an oversight like this kinda not okay considering some of these people get paid in the hundreds of thousands to not make these decisions. That's just my cents. P.S. I'm not going to totally discredit Blizzard as a whole, despite the overall consensus of most players I'm enjoying this expac quite a bit and they ARE making big strides in the right direction. :)
I was just talking about the words they are using. To me those words indicate they fully understand the issue. I brought that up because many times they do make changes based on outcry and say things that don't indicate they understood why they needed to make these changes.
That's all I was saying.
@ Ah I see then I may have mistaken what your take actually was then, I agree they understood what the problem specifically was in this instance, but nevertheless they still often miss the mark on implementing certain things properly before it hits the live game. Either way it’s their game and would be way less of a problem if they designed the game how they wanted it to be played and just made everyone abide by it or don’t play unfortunately I think it would be difficult to maintain the player base. Would still make things way more simple lol.
@@Sliezo 100 percent agreed there.
I’m only mildly interested in this because it shows they’re listening, other than that it’s too little too late. They are being way too restrictive and they know it, pulling shady little rip cords after we’ve already dropped out of the game isn’t going to do anything.
I'm not sure why people keep thinking this has something to do with players quitting. It's just a change a lot of people who still play the game were asking for. They make those to make systems better, kinda often man.
It's not all about you and whatever your little protest is here and it's certainly not in any way "shady."
This is a great change and one many of us have wanted the whole time.
I see this as a positive step forward. I kind of had this idea back when the "world soul trilogy" was announced that Blizzard was going to do a super massive game changing overhaul in all it's systems by doing baby steps pretty much every patch (with the goal of getting to the finish line of the massive changes still in their sights) that move them towards their goal of massive system defining changes. The reason to do this is simple, by going with slow baby steps over a 3 expansion planned overhaul, they get to not only test the changes and make changes to things that may not work as well as they wanted them to conceptually, but they get to spoon feed the changes in small enough bites to the community that there won't be these (at least hopefully there won't)) "Oh Blizzard is changing something and ruining the game Wah! Wah! Baby wants bottle! Wah! Wah" from the toxic content creators (Especially he who shall not be named). This way the changes are small and subtle enough but still move us towards where Blizzard wants to end up, that by the time we reach the end of "The Last Titan" the game will not even resemble what we had in say Shadowlands and even Dragonflight (in a positive way) and no one will be able to complain about it because it all happened under their noses.
Honestly you are really on to something there. I think you might be right.
@@heythereguysitsMetro Apologies, re-reading that it sounds far harsher than I meant it to, but yeah it just hit me today when I was scrolling through Gxxkc's discord (for something unrelated) and listening to your stream in the background, thinking about all the harsh course corrections Blizzard has had to do, all the frivolous community complaints, and the idea of doing such a massive story over such a long period being the perfect opportunity.
In order to upgrade the hero track item which u looted from your 10, we still need to run a 7 and/or below? That still doesnt feel right to me.
You also get that currency when you are capped from gilded in highest keys. Quite common opening weeks, and especially more common now that you will only need four keys to cap next season.
@@heythereguysitsMetro Oh didnt know that, since i started into this season late november. That makes it bearable at least if played at the start.
these changes seem ok for your main. but is still no where near enough of a change to warrant playing an alt seriously. it seems like they watched Quazis video lol these changes are straight from him M+ video. do you know if these changes are staying for the next seasojn?
they are yes
this is good. respecting player time more is always good. gj blizz. W. I also enjoyed your punting gnomes jokes. a good throwback to the old wow days haha.
Haha a classic joke!
While this change will be minimal in the current season it will be very good at the start of season 2
Ya it's mostly for season two it feels.
you need to remove crest gain from non timed runs to promote correct gameplay and not cover up bad gameplay. If teddy has the same gear score as me because he failed 50x more keys its an issue.
I don't agree it is as people CONSTANTLY tell me I'm in a very small minority of people who push keys for something other than just score.
If this is true then that means no one actually cares about crests anyway, so they need to add as many incentives as possible to finish keys.
...why is it an issue? A bad player will do less damage at the same item level, which - when that happens - makes me feel good about myself. I guess you're really bad though, and probably boosted to timed runs by your friends, since the only way you feel better is when you beat people on damage when you out-gear them.
Like, I genuinely could not care about what item level some guy who sucks at the game has. If his gameplay is bad, that'll show. Why tf would I care...? Why tf do you?
I won't be convinced that this is anything but a stopgap to keep people playing in this season unless these changes are kept going forward into the new season. I hope they are, but I am afraid they will simply backtrack.
Literally says they are in the first seconds of the video brother.
@@heythereguysitsMetro ah shit this is what I get for paying half attention to the start of a video. lol. i didn't see the top reply.
And a buff to end of dungeon gold would be awesome.
@@scuttlebut sounds like that's happening too. No mention of specifics though. Eager to see the numbers.
blizz: guys, the ring is going to shift the meta next week. we should probably increase crest rewards so the playerbase doesnt absolutely lose it.
@@jgro9 haha is it that powerful? I have heard otherwise.
I always downgrade my keys to 10 and no matter what changes they do. I am not going to run any 11s and 12s. It's much more likely the 10 actually completes without people leaving.
These changes are aimed at fixing that!
Seems like they are listening. Good times
Very much so!
Was wondering how long before you had a video
Ya, sorry was busy tonight, but its up now!
In my experience, 8 extra crests wouldn't have been enough to justify the extra effort needed to finish any failed +12s this season. First if you're serious about m+ you farm your gilded crests cap early to get your upgrades to do your +12s, so mostly by the time you're doing +12s you're already capped for the week. Speaking generally about the expenditure of my energy/will to play, I'd always have rather gone and done two +8s than slog through a +12 and potentially end up spending 40+ mins in there. I don't think they're bad changes I judt don't think they make much difference.
I do believe these changes are a step into the right direction. At the very least, Blizzard has been listening and watching feedback regarding M+ and they know something must change. I just don’t think this is enough.
I agree and see your point. But I also I want to add to this, playing devil’s advocate.
If I’m pugging and I can complete 4 +8s in an hour. Or even 3 per hour. I would get more from that hour of play than potentially going into a +12, even though I can complete 12s and potentially not timing that key. An untimed 12 is the same as a current timed 12. While that’s better, if I am looking for Gilded crests per hour per effort spent, and it takes x longer to complete a 12 with a higher depletion rate- I would not be incentivized to run that 12 for crests.
This continues to be true if I want to very quick 4 or 5s instead of a 7. However, if you can complete the 7 as fast as a 4, then obviously your crest per hour per effort is worth the 7 for Runed.
And even then, you could run a 7 very quickly and just trade up to Gilded. You wouldn’t really need to run anything else until you out gear the 10s, if you wanted.
Good changes overall but I don’t believe it addresses the core problems. I actually really Metro’s idea about using Nascent crests to upgrade paths of gear. That would be very helpful and a welcome change.
Where are you getting this notion that serious players need to farm low keys early to upgrade their gear first before they progress? You get crests from the keys themselves you succeed in, so why would you waste your time with that? just get right to progression and get your crests that way. That's what I do anyway. Would you say I'm not serious about M+?
I did see some players doing 10s before going on their “serious” 16s.. but it’s not the default imo
8s make me lose my will to play because the players are far worse
@@jonathanwynne6925Yeah, there are some DEMONS in 8s. I sometimes feel 12s are borderline easier than 8s, 'cause the skill level is much higher on average, and there's no obnoxious affixes.
Well said 100 percent agree
@@andrewpaige9152 it's gonna be great!
This is great but not enough, still doesn't fix the main issues.
I think they are taking baby steps here again to see how people react.
Also it's great that season 2 starts like this but definitely more has to be done.
More with crests? What else would you like to see
@@heythereguysitsMetro Crests included, purpose of valorstone as it is right now makes no sense to me, they should either remove it or let us buy gear with it.
Raid bosses and trash should drop more of them.
What i meant is that tanks should be buffed (nerfes reverted), healers should be buffed, graveyards should be available after each boss in keys, depletion needs to die and more.
They should look at pain points and try to solve them, and right now one of the biggest issues (among many others) is that there are not enough tanks and probably healers so why were they nerfed? why are they not rewarded more for doing more / harder jobs?
I was watching the Bench Podcast the other day with tettles and growl and they were making some very weird arguments as why depletion needs to exist. They said if blizzard removes depletion then it'll be harder for pugs to find groups and lfg will be even worse which is 100% wrong, max and quazi were also against removing depletion tough i think it was for different reasons. depletion is the number one reason for anxiety and toxicity and they confuse not having it with being able to choose whatever key you want which again makes no sense. Blizzard should simply remove depletion and keep the rng of the key.
Yoda also suggested a very confusing dust system which again just complicates an already complicated game for absolutely no reason.
This system as it is right now feels like it's made for 0.1% of the top key pushers and this portion of players are unfortunately the loudest and if blizzard truely wants to improve m+ they should stop listening to them.
boy i wrote a lot!
@@HoomanMahdavi-c4q ya sadly all that stuff has nothing to do with this change haha. This was just them making changes to crests from mythic plus. Doesn't mean they aren't doing other stuff too! It just won't be coming until season 2.
@@heythereguysitsMetro Why make those changes now? they see something is wrong (participation numbers in keys most likely) and decide to make some changes which are good but not enough.
I hope more changes are on the way cuz it's desperately needed.
@@HoomanMahdavi-c4q They are making them for season 2, and appear to want to test them out first so they are pushing them for season 1 now that it's progression cycle is over.
The changes you suggest are far more significant and can not just come in the middle of a season obviously.
nothing really changed. still needs +60 runs for 1000 gilded and valorstones are not buffed or removed. only good change is the harbinger achievment and 60 for crafted. this change will not bring the players back or save season 2.
It's not even on the ptr lol why would it need saving?
Good changes. I agree!
glad2hear
I think +2 per key level with 8s effectively dropping 2 less, is a very poor decision.
You get more starting with timed 10s.
Newsflash, this is where most people stop playing.
This change once again is completely out of touch.
Why have a cap and insultingly low crest gain.
Either no cap from the start or make it 15 at 8 and +5 crest per key level.
Like anybody cares if I get my cap in 1 key or 12.
If they start without a cap (not sure as it said this is the starting point of s2 and no cap in the same post) the slow acquisition is ofc fine.
It's an incentive to play the game more. Do not expect blizzard to stop wanting you to do this.
embellishments should add +3 ilvls
Why
So that your 2 embellished slots go all the way up to max
Right why should that happen though? The embellishments are already too powerful compared to other 636 items?
They need to add an item that upgrades M+ hero track loot to myth track. Put it on the vendor for the great vault, and make it cost 2 weeks of full currency from the vault
Yes please!! I’m getting the same shitty trinket from vault 4 weeks in a row, plus other mostly useless items. I cannot even get more crafted items or sockets… bad vault feels horrible, I kinda dont even want to play after. I only play m+ dont wanna raid so I am stuck now 5-6 ilvls below raiders who as a result have an easier time pushing keys as well…
@@josephandrees5381 I like that idea too but I'd much prefer it be from something you can actually obtain from finishing keys. The currency seems appropriate.
@@marcell_22 your 626 trinket is likely 10k less dps than the 639 version. Frustrating sure, but I can tolerate a 10k DPS loss
@@heythereguysitsMetro you can though. If you're fishing for a specific item, you can just take currency and pool it for the following week. Guaranteeing you get the 639 piece you want after 2 weeks feels fair.
@@josephandrees5381 I am getting literally useless loot multiple weeks in a row. My point was that I get even the same pieces repeatedly such as that specific trinket I mentioned that I don't want. I can tolerate a dps loss, I don't feel like my gear is limiting me yet except for if I want to pug then higher ilvl means more invites usually. But mainly it feels really bad to be at the mercy of RNG especially when I have literally a single chance per week for getting an upgrade. That's why I agreed with your idea. It would be great if for example next week I again get 3 suboptimal or even useless options then I could just choose a currency to work towards upgrading some of my remaining pieces that I already have on hero track.
That's a big win but it's way too late. If they listened to player feedback the same way GGG does with PoE 2, all of this would have been fixed weeks ago. Blizzard keeps letting us down severely, the wow team is enormous compared to GGG and there is no reason for them to keep a season broken halfway through. My entire team already quit because of the crest farm and the cliff from 11 to 12; that's not enough to bring anybody back. It's may be enough to bring them back for season 2 but that's all.
@@VDHmain that's a bad perspective to have. They are simply making a change and bringing it in early to test it out here. Season 1 was balanced around it's current state, so honestly anyone who quit over that isn't really fit for the system anyway.
These changes are good, but season 1 was fine too.
your mic is making some strange pop noices and eletrical noices i noticed in the video
Ya sorry thought I had that fixed. Guess it's never going to be solved haha. I have tried everything!
Good step forward but still not good enough. When you're stuck at the 4-7 level because of gear, this change is bleh. Just get rid of the crest penalty. Already burning a hole in your pocket with lost gold during these runs
Why would you be stuck in a four because of gear?
What are you talking about? If you can’t do 8s-10 keys with all 619 gear which is what 4-7s keys provide than it’s a skill problem. And this made it much easier to level up your gear to 619 so you can do 8s and up for gilded crests!
Also what gold expenses do people have in a 7? Consumes are pretty optional until at least 10+ while undergeared. And with the sheer amount of sparks for crafted gear, and uncapped crests, if you are going into 10+ keys undergeared it’s because you are too lazy to farm gilded crests in +8’s rn. After these changes sure going into harder keys might be more worth it but at the current point in the season there’s zero reason to need consumables in the 4-7 range outside of the desire to exchange a very minor amount of gold for a slightly faster crest farm.
@@heythereguysitsMetroI need runed crests to upgrade my gear. I'm only 613 right now and don't play often enough. I'm not going to get invited to anything higher than a +7
@@grimfocusgaming4391when you're pugging, you can get into some pretty shit groups making the dumbest mistakes possible. Even as a decent healer, you cannot prevent all of the dumb mistakes
You can visibly see wows player count drop with your videos.
Where can I see that?
@@heythereguysitsMetro Your views
Oh wow you think my channel is representative of the entirety of the playerbase of wow? That's one of the kindest and dumbest things I have ever seen someone said. Thank you in both directions!
@@heythereguysitsMetro It's an objective look with reference yes.
You're about the only reference to M+ as nobody does it so yeah. It was an opinion not a dick, don't take it so hard.
Good but late and not enough.
1) There should be no crest punishment for failing the timer
2) Keys should not degrade when failing the timer, at least they should have a few charges before degrading
3) Instances are still way overtuned and unforgiving, they are not fun to play for average players at the myth vault level.
@@Zka77-e1f this is just about crests. Idk why you expected them to nerf dungeons at the same time they are announcing that but that was never going to happen.
Either way, I would use that difficulty as encouragement to improve. The system is meant to be hard and once you approach it properly you will have a new perspective on the game and, dare I say, maybe even life.
@@heythereguysitsMetro I agree with both of you, this content is meant to be challenging and require actual coordination and effort to get the highest level gear, but it's also just too punishing for what it is as well and really boosts a toxic and picky atmosphere, punishing key holders for making a bad pug pick and punishing classes that aren't in the meta even if they're still good.
tiny positive changes way too late once again
This is a permanent change moving forward, how is it "too late?"
3 things are missing:
1. 12+ should be dropping mythic track
2. crafted gear should have been buffed to 639 instead
3. we should get refund of 30 gilded crests for each nascent gilded we spent 90 crests on
12s are too easy now to be dropping mythic track. I was in favor of this before the changes though.
I like my idea best!
honestly, they should just push this live asap. why wait til next week. make the game fun asap rather than risk losing more ppl in the few days before it. m+ participation is low atm. tons of ppl quitting plus with the ring not being an actual better ring til just a couple weeks before season two. i dont get blizzard sometimes lol.
Everything they are doing is a sad attempt to keep player retention up longer into the patch and it's done the opposite.
It likely requires a patch and it's already Thursday.
Lol waiting until Tuesday too hard 😅