Dismember, when a commander deck does have access to black color identity, will often run the spell because it's effectively an easy answer for low mana especially when you have access to more than just black. Dismember is most often used in five color decks where you may not even have a black mana source but need to remove a problem like a drannith magistrate.
Still, using one card exclusively for a commander is usually just being annoying more than helpful, since you can still cast the commander after just for a bit more mana. It's a card to delay, more than solve an issue
Yes, maybe it's more an issue of a misleading title. Dismember is by no means bad, it's simply not as good as in regular formats because there it is playable in pretty much any deck while commander limits it to black commanders, so it definitely is a card that fits the "card that's worse in commander" bill.
Flagstones of Trokair isn't bad in commander... It's free sac fodder for any deck that sacrifices lands. Thalia and Gitrog, Crop Rotation, Elvish Reclaimer, Harrow, Lotus Field, Dust Bowl, etc. At tables where mass lass destruction isn't taboo, it also gives insurance against that too. Whereas the card you actually used for an example, Field of Ruin, doesn't combo with Flagstones of Trokair at all. You can't Field of Ruin your own lands.
that's a "nich" use where such a card would have synergy or "Unique advantage" in that deck. It's like how you would run Glacial Chasm in a Gitrog Monster deck but almost no where else. Baby Lasagnia is one of the only other few places i would run Glacial Chasm. But the same argument could be made for Necroameba in a deck where milling yourself is important to your game plan, it becomes a free flying blocker when you mill it. But would you run it anywhere else? no. Flagstones of Trokair is a good card, but if your not doing "land sacrifice" it's a normally a dead card. I'd run it in Dihada if only because it's a "Legendary permanent" and a land.
Also adding to that, in commander, the land fixing of white majoritarily comes from cards like "tax land" , "Knight of the white orchid" ; "Keeper of the accord" ... as in , if opp has more land, you value yourself into catching up. So stuff like Scortched ruins / Lotus field , which sacrifice lands when entering field while keeping the mana production high, are really good in combination to the above cards of "ho no i have less lands, lemme fetch more for free". And flagstone fetching itself into a plains (any of them btw, thus bicolor decks can utilize this to get a shock land for instance) is highly valuable too. It's like.... a nice bonus of a card ? Doesn't even enter tapped so no reason not to put it there except if you rly want basic lands or only play 2+ colors lands
I use Flagstones in a red white black deck with as many indestructible lands as I can, all of which targets for a red sorcery that destroys a target land, lets its owner search for a basic, and draws the caster a card. So, three mana land ramp that also draws a card, outside of green.
In fact I'd argue in the decks it's good in, it's very good. A new Crucible card came out in Phyrexia that lets you run a pretty efficient ramp engine in Thalia & Frog due to having both Crucibles in the deck.
There's one caveat for Show and Tell that you're forgetting with Commander; Group Hug. These are the players who rock up to the table and choose chaos over victory. One of these psychopaths starts getting the ball rolling, and you're in for one wild ride.
@@XCodesdont ever play grup hug scrub 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 literally tempting worm hyprgen and about 20 other GH cards do the EXACT SAME THING 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 just say you dont know how to build decks
Hard disagree for Dismember. It can delete a lot of Commanders out there, which aren't typically bigger than 5. While the black deck restriction can be hefty, there aren't a huge amount of black removal spells that exile cards. And yes, there are Sacrifice effects, but if someone has a big enough board, they'll just sacrifice everything around the card you want to remove.
@@kris834 I thought the [COMPARED TO THE REST OF THE CARD POOL] was implied, but sure. If that's the only disagreement someone can come up with, I'm ok with that. Now, without searching them up, I can name Deadly Rollick for exile. All the other ones I can think of are in grave exile. Meanwhile, I can name more than 25 that say destroy then I have run over the years. They might be restrictive in what they can destroy, but they destroy none the less.
This is really a non issue most of the time but I want to point out, that when a legendary permanent gets legend ruled it is not sacrificed. It is put into the graveyard as a statebased action. It will trigger death triggers on creatures and such like the Flagstone you had shown but it will not trigger abilities that care about things being sacrificed like Tergrid. Not trying to nitpick, just as a sidenote for people wondering.
Cryptic command is still pretty great because of all the modes. You will always be able to pick the two most helpful abilities. Crashing footfalls still has some niche play in certain decks, but definitely not as good
I disagree with this list - many of these are good in competitive commander, which is still commander. Low to the ground cards can be good in commander if you are trying to win fast. Did I miss a comment that he’s not referring to competitive decks?
He is still correct on the list, that a lot of those cards are bad in commander Show in tell: Someone could have something like Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider, one of the Eldrazi Titans, or some other giant threat that's worse than what you have Tron lands: If one of them is blown up then they are glorified Wastes, the chances into drawing one of them is 1/100 which is very low unlike in a 60-card format where the chances are now 4/60 or 1/15 which is much better Dismember while yes it's still decent kill spell against any creature with toughness of 5 or less but the fact that none black decks can't run it and black has so many kill spells that it's in a stiff competition and it also only kills one creature unlike cards like Blasphemous Act which deals 13 damage to all creatures and it makes itself cheaper for each creature on the board or Cleansing Nova which is just a traditional board Cryptic Command: the card costs too much and against more than just one opponent, the tempo swing just isn't there Crashing Footfalls: while it is a cheap token production card but if you cast for its suspend cost then you have to wait for 4 turns to get it and those creatures are going to be spent by either blocking or dying in a board wipe Delver of Secrets: Commander isn't the same as Legacy or Modern where spells that cast 1-2 are almost exclusively played because of how fast those formats, Commander is usually a slower game because of the bigger decks and having three opponents to deal with so the games go on longer so cards that wouldn't see any play in those formats get a spot to shine in commander
@@jayredharpstudios9672dismember is run in tayam and some other cedh lists sometimes even as the only real removal spell since its 1 mana hits pretty much anything except very specific cards that you dont really care abouut, tron is bad in colored deck but really good in colorless even if you just run it for urzas workshop to sometimes produce 2 its still a huge upside
I definitely run Flagstones in a lot of decks with white. I figure more often than not at worse its a no worse than a basic plains and at best it can grab a land after I cast Armageddon or do cool tricks with anything that sacs lands. Thats what makes it cool imo that at worse its just a plains so like why not have 1 less plains for a flagstones in most case. I def run Dismember in a lot of decks too. As others have said 1 mana for -5/-5 is just pretty decent even if you're already running other good black removal. I wouldn't run it in EVERY deck with black but I run it in a bunch. But yeah, I hear ya on everything else.
“Cryptic command isn’t a commander staple” I might be stuck in the 2010’s but this is a wack take. Command is great, and card like it are why mono blue is so strong in commander. It’s fine in 2 color decks too.
Again, the dud isn't very good at understanding Commander, but wants views, so tries to talk about Commander even though he isn't very good at talking about Commander.
The dude isn't good at commander or magic as a whole but here your takes are the wack ones, and that refers to all replies. Ya'll are playing in a crab tribal power level and think for some reason your opinions have a strong merit
While i think some cards on this list shouldnt be here, cryptic command isnt one of them. I haven't seen the card played once in a couple years now. There are also just better modal counterspell effects out there. Even at 6 mana, i would rather play sublime epiphany than command. Mana bases have gotten better, 3 blue mana is still a casting cost that has to be respected in a 3 color deck, and kinda goes out the window in 3+ color decks. It is still a fun card, but it has been outclassed by more recent blue spells.
Hard disagree on a lot of this list, but the Urza lands and Crashing Footfalls in particular. The Urza lands are absolute powerhouses in decks with Colorless color identity, just because the pool of lands you're allowed in that instance is VERY limited and VERY commander-specific, so having those as generic options is a massive boon. As for Crashing Footfalls, a lot of decks that would run that are going to be running it alongside token doubling effects, meaning that paying for its Suspend 4 trigger oftentimes means that you aren't threatening two 4/4 trample tokens, but anywhere from four up to potentially 64.
For the Tron lands, your chance of drawing into just one of them is 1/100 and those are staggering low odds Manalogs said if one of your Tron lands gets destroyed the others just produce one colorless mana, as Wastes do, and for crashing footfalls that's a two-three card combo in a format where board wipes are very common and your chances of seeing those cards or tutor cards are fairly slim when there's better token production in commander
@@jayredharpstudios9672the Tron lands are a must have for Zhulodok CEDH. You want to turbo the commander then cascade down deterministically into a Painter Combo and kill players 1 by 1.
The Tron lands just happen to fit into colourless decks, as they're just better wastes. Which doesn't make them good or anywhere near playable in non colourless decks.
@@Beisser76 not unless you’re trying to turbo colorless combos. Colorless decks need a lot of help to turbo in unorthodox ways and the Tron lands are pretty broken for that.
@@satansamael666 I'd love to see a list that can consistently assemble all the tron lands by turn 7 or something. I can't think of any land tutors in colourless. But I can think of a million ways to power out cheap colourless mana artifacts.
Flagstones is kinda awesome in Commander. In mono-white the only really drawbacks to it are what...Emeria not counting it and back to basics and extraplanar lens? While Armagedon/ravages aren't commonly played...because...reasons...Flagstones is pretty damn good and in the right color. In multicolor decks if you are sac'ing permanents for whatever reason its excellent as well. Not an autoinclude but very very good in the decks that can trigger it. r/w spellslinger decks should likely run it along with the indestructible r/w arti land and darksteel citadel so they can play Cleansing WIldfire. Rampant growth + draw a card seems damn good in non-green decks...but you need a indestructible land...OR...flagstones...to really make it work. Yeah Flagstones is awesome in EDH lol.
Remand too...geez. Yeah you dont just remand small things. Stopping a big thing for a turn can be rather good however, and remand replaces itself, so unlike most other counterspells in edh, you aren't effectively down 2 cards vs the table. Same reason why arcane denial one of the best counterspells...it leaves you and 2 others down a card vs the person you counter, and they might not be mad at you because they get to draw 2.
For those commenting on Dismember, remember that Manalogs is referring to how it goes from one or the first picks for removal in 60 card formats to being in only 3% of possible decks in commander (as epr EDHreq). That is a massive shift in play and recognition. I bet there are a ton of commander players who dont even know dismember exists. So while its still good, i agree that it deserves to be on this list, because it is not anywhere close to being a stable for the format.
a lot of cards are restricted to colour in commander, cuz thats how the format works...dismember is still premium removal for no mana which is still verrrrrrry good
If I'm being honest, I think the list was really good. I've come to agree with every card on this list being pretty poor choices in commander despite playing some of them or attempting to use them. The issue with judging commander cards is that it's too wide of a format. cEDH plays a low to the ground format where efficiency is king. Many cards that are downright awful in regular kitchen table will see extensive and powerful use the higher the power level. And dominant value threats that swing games and plow through games in regular edh... Are lackluster in cedh if not downright unplayable. So actively judging cards by either metric ignores the other.
@@satansamael666 you dont play the traditional rubish cards most of them are atleast decent in normal edh, there are very few cards that are only good in cedh, they just get much better
There are plenty of CEDH decks I have seen that run Chalice of the Void, especially since it can shut out Fierce Guardianship, cascade, and storm casts.
I would say Chalice of the Void could be extremely useful if you build around it. One way to build around it is to not play a certain CMC, say 3 or 4. This can be very unfun though because it prevents some players from playing their commanders and can feel very targeted. If threat assessment is off, you screw one player over and allow another to have a big advantage. With lots of proliferate and other ways to remove a counter would help make sure you can play things and your opponents are limited.
Chalice of the void isn't that effective. It may shut off a few things, but with 3 opponents and 100 cards per deck to deal with, there's too many threats to deal with. You also shut off your own options.
@@kennellfrederick4367 Not if you build around it. Say you build Yennett, you can choose 2 and block off everybody's two drops which takes care of a lot of threats and removal. Even ramp. It doesn't impact you because you built a deck around odd mana costs. I didn't say it would always be great, but it definitely has a lot of potential and as mentioned before by someone else, it does seem to see cEDH play. It's a little niche, but has uses in commander
@@kennellfrederick4367 thing is, even if it shuts down 1 deck, it has already made its value, especially since you most likely arent casting it for more than 2 counters max. It either destroys 1 cost cards or 0 cost, which demolishes aggressive hands with 0 mana rocks or spellslingy decks
Chalice of the void is incredibly good in cEDH, its certianly more niche than other lock pieces but when it works, it really works. so idk if it really belongs on this list at all.
You have no idea what you’re talking about. It’s serviceable in casual with it likely being the best 1 mana removal in Jund colors, and it’s a staple in cEDH for said efficiency. There are even many Ad Naus style decks that play it, which are the only cEDH decks where the life loss even remotely matters.
chalice of the void is great in commander, especially in cedh. A 0 cost chalice is amazing, a 2 cost is also good sometimes, but it can also destroy a lot of lower powered decks when its a 4 cost since most of the good common counterspells are 2 costs
Some of these inclusions are very strange, it wasn't a very well thought out list. Flagstone of trokair is played in decks that care about saccing lands (thalia & gitrog), dismember is one of the best removal spell in the game period, narcomoeba is played in hermit druid lists to help flashback dread return targeting thassa's oracle, chalice of the void has some niche applications in some white decks to check 0 mana rocks, and arguably if you're playing show and tell you're playing stuff like omniscience and your opponent isn't
while show in tell is way more dangerous in commander it still can win the game for you though im sure somone learned the hard way the dangers of the card since i cheated out a Ulamog 1.0 and "Flagstones of Tokair" is not even close to bad in commander theres a monster load of cards that can sac it in the format DoubleZdogg has quite a bit of those examples uh "Dismember" problem is not the color identity is that vast majority of the creatures later game are above 5 toughness in the format and there's better removal spells while correct about the tron lands but if that deck is a colorless decks if you pull it off and some of the cedh decks use some of those cards
That sounds like cedh. Chalice can be a house there of course, but outside of stopping some mana rocks, doesnt really do anything in more casual games.
when you showed sublime epiphany against cryptic command you failed to mention the " counter target activated ability or triggered ability".... there is what? 4 cards in all of MTG that do that. completely different realm
As a player who's main deck is a CEDH mono white Myrel, I must heavily disagree with Flagstones of Trokair as it's a why not land. It enters untapped and makes white mana with a straight upside. Also white is not the most unpopular colour in commander right now that is green. Green is missing any consistent control pieces and struggles to deal with an opponent who has already gone wide against them as they have no real boardwipe or target removal outside fight/bite spells.
I run Flagstones in multiple cEDH decks lol. Opportunity cost is everything Also Narcomeba is a cEDH tech card frequently. CEDH uses some very weird effects
Bruh. The more I watch this the less I think he plays MTG at all. Dismember is still a 1 mana removal for most targets in the game and it bypasses indestructible. Chalice is a staple of CEDH.
Flagstones is an auto include for me in mono white because most of whites land ramp wants you to have less lands so lotus field, lotus vale, and scorched ruins are all auto includes for me. an they all work with flagstones because they require you to sac a land if they would enter. and if you think these are corner cases id like to introduce you to my favorite card ever: weathered wayfarer
If you are adding MLD, it’s also pretty busted if you have the Lorwyn Plains. Add on hatebears and you will just lock opponents out and you can just attack with no opposition.
disagree with 5 and 3, dismember is pretty good if you consider that since commander starts at 40, its cost is just a theoretical 1 mana 2 life, and cryptic being on the list makes no sense to me, i've seen massive value out of the mini-sublime card from multiple players, is it as good as sublime? no just like a 1/1 can't hold a candle to Emrakul, i too like comparing apples and cucumbers
while most of this is fairly accurate, i would at least slightly disagree with the choices of show and tell and cryptic command. while it may be significantly worse than in other formats, show and tell is a card that amplifies strategies like braids, conjurer adept (who gives a similar effect to each player during their upkeep) the other players will benefit from this effect too of course, however their decks are very likely simply not built to put out haymaker after haymaler turn after turn. with show the timing is relevant, as you just can wait to cast it until you have something in hand that ensures you get the most value out of it (in addition to the political power you gain from braid's/show's effect). cryptic does indeed lose some of its power when compared to its performance in other formats, however, especially the tap down effect scales with the magnitude of the game and is significantly stronger due to political gain yet again, a worse card in commander of course, but by a landslide not a bad one imo
He cites missing out on cheap ramp as the big reason why Crashing Footfalls is unplayable but you only need to make your landrops. You can get land under the curve all day with landcyclers.
It is by a landslide on cryptic command though. You're pretty much only playing this thing in monoblue, and even there you have so many better counter spells, even including modal ones. Holding up 4 mana is ridiculous. Remand is the card that shouldn't be on the list as it's honestly an all star and totally underrated.
Remand is good in edh. The table is a +0 and the turn player essentially lost tempo. In higher powered games such as edh delaying an engine or commander is the game.
@@amecarethqc6652 interestingly enough, Mishra, Artificer Prodigy uses the jellyfish as fodder for Goblin Bombardment and just guns down the entire table.
Dismember is great as many others have said, snipes down a LOT of creatures, commanders included, for a bit of life and 1 mana. Would still play it to this day. Remand also shouldn't be on this list. Sorry but as far as cheap counters go it's still one of the best. Not many don't lose you card advantage and returning a spell to hand in commander usually means they can't play it again this turn. Also, those thinking cryptic command shouldn't be here are insane. Holding up 4 mana, triple blue, is difficult to do while advancing your gameplan. Low cost counters are what you need and you have a slew of them that are way better than this, even modal ones as well! Sorry but command has been outclassed long long time ago.
I disagree with pretty much the whole list. Is just that good and bad depends solely on the context of the deck. Useless to tell if a card is good or bad in a vaccum because we don't play in a vaccum
Like....half of these if not all of them are fine for EDH...... People need to remember that EDH is a casual format and shouldnt care what other people are playing in their deck. Youre a dick if you show up to a game of fun tribal decks with a top tier meta slave, mana crypt, one ring $800+ deck though.
I have certainly tried to make Delver work in commander. Mainly alongside Delver's more advanced versions, Aberrant Researcher and Docent of Perfection. It indeed quite the wall to get through.
You use it as card draw for spell slingers and CEDH spell sling as well. People dont know the REAL power of cards till somone els makes a deck that whipes the table lol
The only thing I disagree with is dismember and trokair, pretty funny these garbo in comment section think command is a staple. Should've used low hanging fruit card like squadron hawk
Dismember, when a commander deck does have access to black color identity, will often run the spell because it's effectively an easy answer for low mana especially when you have access to more than just black. Dismember is most often used in five color decks where you may not even have a black mana source but need to remove a problem like a drannith magistrate.
I'm really glad to see comments like this. I was thinking maybe someone slipped me some crazy pills.
Its also great for getting around cards with indestructible. A few weird cards on this list. I wouldn't call dismember or flagstones bad in commander
especially dealing with magus of the moon
Actually, 1 mana -5/-5 is still good. There are a lot of commanders at 5 toughness or less.
Still, using one card exclusively for a commander is usually just being annoying more than helpful, since you can still cast the commander after just for a bit more mana.
It's a card to delay, more than solve an issue
Alot of creatures that do anything significant are 5 or less and -x/-x gets around indestructible
its a staple in cedh
Yes, maybe it's more an issue of a misleading title. Dismember is by no means bad, it's simply not as good as in regular formats because there it is playable in pretty much any deck while commander limits it to black commanders, so it definitely is a card that fits the "card that's worse in commander" bill.
for real, dismember is an auto include in high power casual.
Flagstones of Trokair isn't bad in commander... It's free sac fodder for any deck that sacrifices lands. Thalia and Gitrog, Crop Rotation, Elvish Reclaimer, Harrow, Lotus Field, Dust Bowl, etc. At tables where mass lass destruction isn't taboo, it also gives insurance against that too. Whereas the card you actually used for an example, Field of Ruin, doesn't combo with Flagstones of Trokair at all. You can't Field of Ruin your own lands.
that's a "nich" use where such a card would have synergy or "Unique advantage" in that deck. It's like how you would run Glacial Chasm in a Gitrog Monster deck but almost no where else. Baby Lasagnia is one of the only other few places i would run Glacial Chasm. But the same argument could be made for Necroameba in a deck where milling yourself is important to your game plan, it becomes a free flying blocker when you mill it. But would you run it anywhere else? no. Flagstones of Trokair is a good card, but if your not doing "land sacrifice" it's a normally a dead card. I'd run it in Dihada if only because it's a "Legendary permanent" and a land.
@@MageSkeleton A land that replaces itself upon destruction will always have value. Mana bases do get blowed up from time to time.
Also adding to that, in commander, the land fixing of white majoritarily comes from cards like "tax land" , "Knight of the white orchid" ; "Keeper of the accord" ... as in , if opp has more land, you value yourself into catching up.
So stuff like Scortched ruins / Lotus field , which sacrifice lands when entering field while keeping the mana production high, are really good in combination to the above cards of "ho no i have less lands, lemme fetch more for free".
And flagstone fetching itself into a plains (any of them btw, thus bicolor decks can utilize this to get a shock land for instance) is highly valuable too.
It's like.... a nice bonus of a card ?
Doesn't even enter tapped so no reason not to put it there except if you rly want basic lands or only play 2+ colors lands
I use Flagstones in a red white black deck with as many indestructible lands as I can, all of which targets for a red sorcery that destroys a target land, lets its owner search for a basic, and draws the caster a card. So, three mana land ramp that also draws a card, outside of green.
In fact I'd argue in the decks it's good in, it's very good.
A new Crucible card came out in Phyrexia that lets you run a pretty efficient ramp engine in Thalia & Frog due to having both Crucibles in the deck.
There's one caveat for Show and Tell that you're forgetting with Commander; Group Hug. These are the players who rock up to the table and choose chaos over victory. One of these psychopaths starts getting the ball rolling, and you're in for one wild ride.
@@XCodesdont ever play grup hug scrub 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 literally tempting worm hyprgen and about 20 other GH cards do the EXACT SAME THING 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 just say you dont know how to build decks
@@Nemissis4265 its not that fucking funny
Its still bad same with the grouphug "strategy" even though the card is very fun
@@XCodes grouphug should just be called kingmaking
Or Conjurer Braids mixed with Stealing cards.
Hard disagree for Dismember. It can delete a lot of Commanders out there, which aren't typically bigger than 5. While the black deck restriction can be hefty, there aren't a huge amount of black removal spells that exile cards.
And yes, there are Sacrifice effects, but if someone has a big enough board, they'll just sacrifice everything around the card you want to remove.
There's tones of black cards that exile creatures. At least 25 spot removal spells that exile, what are you on about?
@@kris834 I thought the [COMPARED TO THE REST OF THE CARD POOL] was implied, but sure. If that's the only disagreement someone can come up with, I'm ok with that.
Now, without searching them up, I can name Deadly Rollick for exile. All the other ones I can think of are in grave exile. Meanwhile, I can name more than 25 that say destroy then I have run over the years. They might be restrictive in what they can destroy, but they destroy none the less.
Guys, guys! I have a crazy theory! I think hirumaredx and ManaLogs might be distant cousins!
They are the same person
Wooosh
Don’t forgot their cousin DuelLogs for yugioh
Is that dndlogs guy there uncle or something?
I think you might be on to something.
This is really a non issue most of the time but I want to point out, that when a legendary permanent gets legend ruled it is not sacrificed. It is put into the graveyard as a statebased action. It will trigger death triggers on creatures and such like the Flagstone you had shown but it will not trigger abilities that care about things being sacrificed like Tergrid. Not trying to nitpick, just as a sidenote for people wondering.
Bro, you have no idea how annoying it is to explain this to complete idiots who dont want to read rulings.
Cryptic command is still pretty great because of all the modes. You will always be able to pick the two most helpful abilities. Crashing footfalls still has some niche play in certain decks, but definitely not as good
Dismember is one of my pet removal spells that I love to use in commander. Also crashing footfalls has been a great commander card.
Has it? I feel like it'd be way too little to see consistent value.
I disagree with this list - many of these are good in competitive commander, which is still commander. Low to the ground cards can be good in commander if you are trying to win fast. Did I miss a comment that he’s not referring to competitive decks?
No, he's just a boomer that's trying the hip new thing the kids are doing, and isn't very good at it.
Strange video. 😅
He is still correct on the list, that a lot of those cards are bad in commander
Show in tell: Someone could have something like Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider, one of the Eldrazi Titans, or some other giant threat that's worse than what you have
Tron lands: If one of them is blown up then they are glorified Wastes, the chances into drawing one of them is 1/100 which is very low unlike in a 60-card format where the chances are now 4/60 or 1/15 which is much better
Dismember while yes it's still decent kill spell against any creature with toughness of 5 or less but the fact that none black decks can't run it and black has so many kill spells that it's in a stiff competition and it also only kills one creature unlike cards like Blasphemous Act which deals 13 damage to all creatures and it makes itself cheaper for each creature on the board or Cleansing Nova which is just a traditional board
Cryptic Command: the card costs too much and against more than just one opponent, the tempo swing just isn't there
Crashing Footfalls: while it is a cheap token production card but if you cast for its suspend cost then you have to wait for 4 turns to get it and those creatures are going to be spent by either blocking or dying in a board wipe
Delver of Secrets: Commander isn't the same as Legacy or Modern where spells that cast 1-2 are almost exclusively played because of how fast those formats, Commander is usually a slower game because of the bigger decks and having three opponents to deal with so the games go on longer so cards that wouldn't see any play in those formats get a spot to shine in commander
@@jayredharpstudios9672dismember is run in tayam and some other cedh lists sometimes even as the only real removal spell since its 1 mana hits pretty much anything except very specific cards that you dont really care abouut, tron is bad in colored deck but really good in colorless even if you just run it for urzas workshop to sometimes produce 2 its still a huge upside
Cedh isn't the standard form of edh. THey don't typically build around the commander and use the same cards.
Is Delver even run in Delver decks anymore or did they only keep the name?
Delver was relevant in legacy while Expressive Iteration was still legal
I definitely run Flagstones in a lot of decks with white. I figure more often than not at worse its a no worse than a basic plains and at best it can grab a land after I cast Armageddon or do cool tricks with anything that sacs lands. Thats what makes it cool imo that at worse its just a plains so like why not have 1 less plains for a flagstones in most case. I def run Dismember in a lot of decks too. As others have said 1 mana for -5/-5 is just pretty decent even if you're already running other good black removal. I wouldn't run it in EVERY deck with black but I run it in a bunch. But yeah, I hear ya on everything else.
Yeah having a flagstones in your deck doesn't hurt, and when it works, it really works. Low cost, potential high reward
“Cryptic command isn’t a commander staple”
I might be stuck in the 2010’s but this is a wack take. Command is great, and card like it are why mono blue is so strong in commander. It’s fine in 2 color decks too.
Again, the dud isn't very good at understanding Commander, but wants views, so tries to talk about Commander even though he isn't very good at talking about Commander.
@@delathenleso5793 That makes sense. This list is awful. Crashing Footfalls is a beating in my Yidris deck.
The dude isn't good at commander or magic as a whole but here your takes are the wack ones, and that refers to all replies. Ya'll are playing in a crab tribal power level and think for some reason your opinions have a strong merit
While i think some cards on this list shouldnt be here, cryptic command isnt one of them. I haven't seen the card played once in a couple years now. There are also just better modal counterspell effects out there. Even at 6 mana, i would rather play sublime epiphany than command. Mana bases have gotten better, 3 blue mana is still a casting cost that has to be respected in a 3 color deck, and kinda goes out the window in 3+ color decks. It is still a fun card, but it has been outclassed by more recent blue spells.
Hard disagree on a lot of this list, but the Urza lands and Crashing Footfalls in particular. The Urza lands are absolute powerhouses in decks with Colorless color identity, just because the pool of lands you're allowed in that instance is VERY limited and VERY commander-specific, so having those as generic options is a massive boon. As for Crashing Footfalls, a lot of decks that would run that are going to be running it alongside token doubling effects, meaning that paying for its Suspend 4 trigger oftentimes means that you aren't threatening two 4/4 trample tokens, but anywhere from four up to potentially 64.
For the Tron lands, your chance of drawing into just one of them is 1/100 and those are staggering low odds Manalogs said if one of your Tron lands gets destroyed the others just produce one colorless mana, as Wastes do, and for crashing footfalls that's a two-three card combo in a format where board wipes are very common and your chances of seeing those cards or tutor cards are fairly slim when there's better token production in commander
@@jayredharpstudios9672the Tron lands are a must have for Zhulodok CEDH. You want to turbo the commander then cascade down deterministically into a Painter Combo and kill players 1 by 1.
The Tron lands just happen to fit into colourless decks, as they're just better wastes. Which doesn't make them good or anywhere near playable in non colourless decks.
@@Beisser76 not unless you’re trying to turbo colorless combos. Colorless decks need a lot of help to turbo in unorthodox ways and the Tron lands are pretty broken for that.
@@satansamael666 I'd love to see a list that can consistently assemble all the tron lands by turn 7 or something. I can't think of any land tutors in colourless. But I can think of a million ways to power out cheap colourless mana artifacts.
Narcomoeba is a part of a hermit Druid + dead return + thassa’s oracle combo in cedh, it is useful
Flagstones is kinda awesome in Commander. In mono-white the only really drawbacks to it are what...Emeria not counting it and back to basics and extraplanar lens? While Armagedon/ravages aren't commonly played...because...reasons...Flagstones is pretty damn good and in the right color. In multicolor decks if you are sac'ing permanents for whatever reason its excellent as well.
Not an autoinclude but very very good in the decks that can trigger it. r/w spellslinger decks should likely run it along with the indestructible r/w arti land and darksteel citadel so they can play Cleansing WIldfire. Rampant growth + draw a card seems damn good in non-green decks...but you need a indestructible land...OR...flagstones...to really make it work.
Yeah Flagstones is awesome in EDH lol.
Remand too...geez. Yeah you dont just remand small things. Stopping a big thing for a turn can be rather good however, and remand replaces itself, so unlike most other counterspells in edh, you aren't effectively down 2 cards vs the table. Same reason why arcane denial one of the best counterspells...it leaves you and 2 others down a card vs the person you counter, and they might not be mad at you because they get to draw 2.
@@marknicklasoneven remanding your own spell might be a good use out of it.
when I think of "good in other formats, bad in commander" my first thought is always Death's Shadow
For those commenting on Dismember, remember that Manalogs is referring to how it goes from one or the first picks for removal in 60 card formats to being in only 3% of possible decks in commander (as epr EDHreq). That is a massive shift in play and recognition. I bet there are a ton of commander players who dont even know dismember exists. So while its still good, i agree that it deserves to be on this list, because it is not anywhere close to being a stable for the format.
a lot of cards are restricted to colour in commander, cuz thats how the format works...dismember is still premium removal for no mana which is still verrrrrrry good
If I'm being honest, I think the list was really good. I've come to agree with every card on this list being pretty poor choices in commander despite playing some of them or attempting to use them.
The issue with judging commander cards is that it's too wide of a format. cEDH plays a low to the ground format where efficiency is king. Many cards that are downright awful in regular kitchen table will see extensive and powerful use the higher the power level. And dominant value threats that swing games and plow through games in regular edh... Are lackluster in cedh if not downright unplayable. So actively judging cards by either metric ignores the other.
Preach. CEDH gives you the excuse to play all the traditionally rubbish cards and break them like the next Oko.
@@satansamael666 you dont play the traditional rubish cards most of them are atleast decent in normal edh, there are very few cards that are only good in cedh, they just get much better
@@lassehoffmann625 it’s not the best CEDH list, it’s just barely acceptable. Low tier but definitely far from unplayable.
There are plenty of CEDH decks I have seen that run Chalice of the Void, especially since it can shut out Fierce Guardianship, cascade, and storm casts.
Chalice doesn’t stop any of those things, it specifies CMC
I would say Chalice of the Void could be extremely useful if you build around it. One way to build around it is to not play a certain CMC, say 3 or 4. This can be very unfun though because it prevents some players from playing their commanders and can feel very targeted. If threat assessment is off, you screw one player over and allow another to have a big advantage. With lots of proliferate and other ways to remove a counter would help make sure you can play things and your opponents are limited.
chalice of the void is great without building too much around it, it sees plenty of play in cedh lists
@@o_braxos that's fair! I'm more into casual, but I could see using it on one drops to stymie your opponents would be great.
Chalice of the void isn't that effective. It may shut off a few things, but with 3 opponents and 100 cards per deck to deal with, there's too many threats to deal with. You also shut off your own options.
@@kennellfrederick4367 Not if you build around it. Say you build Yennett, you can choose 2 and block off everybody's two drops which takes care of a lot of threats and removal. Even ramp. It doesn't impact you because you built a deck around odd mana costs. I didn't say it would always be great, but it definitely has a lot of potential and as mentioned before by someone else, it does seem to see cEDH play. It's a little niche, but has uses in commander
@@kennellfrederick4367 thing is, even if it shuts down 1 deck, it has already made its value, especially since you most likely arent casting it for more than 2 counters max. It either destroys 1 cost cards or 0 cost, which demolishes aggressive hands with 0 mana rocks or spellslingy decks
Show and tell is still a fun card in commander
Chalice of the void is incredibly good in cEDH, its certianly more niche than other lock pieces but when it works, it really works. so idk if it really belongs on this list at all.
definitely belongs, because casual is the most played version of edh, and even in cedh it hurts you and you can't build a deck around it as much.
You have no idea what you’re talking about. It’s serviceable in casual with it likely being the best 1 mana removal in Jund colors, and it’s a staple in cEDH for said efficiency. There are even many Ad Naus style decks that play it, which are the only cEDH decks where the life loss even remotely matters.
@@baconsir1159 … that’s what I said, i agree with you?
@@falc0n12I was responding to Kennellfrederick, the @ didn’t go through for some reason
I think Dismember is pretty good
chalice of the void is great in commander, especially in cedh. A 0 cost chalice is amazing, a 2 cost is also good sometimes, but it can also destroy a lot of lower powered decks when its a 4 cost since most of the good common counterspells are 2 costs
The criteria on many of the cards of the list seems...outdated.
Some of these inclusions are very strange, it wasn't a very well thought out list. Flagstone of trokair is played in decks that care about saccing lands (thalia & gitrog), dismember is one of the best removal spell in the game period, narcomoeba is played in hermit druid lists to help flashback dread return targeting thassa's oracle, chalice of the void has some niche applications in some white decks to check 0 mana rocks, and arguably if you're playing show and tell you're playing stuff like omniscience and your opponent isn't
while show in tell is way more dangerous in commander it still can win the game for you though im sure somone learned the hard way the dangers of the card since i cheated out a Ulamog 1.0
and "Flagstones of Tokair" is not even close to bad in commander theres a monster load of cards that can sac it in the format DoubleZdogg has quite a bit of those examples
uh "Dismember" problem is not the color identity is that vast majority of the creatures later game are above 5 toughness in the format and there's better removal spells
while correct about the tron lands but if that deck is a colorless decks if you pull it off
and some of the cedh decks use some of those cards
I'm playing cryptic command in my Kalamax EDH Deck and the value I can get out of it is insane.
I have no idea what you're talking about chalice on 1 SHREDS some of the best decks in commander and chalice on 2 dunks on thoracle AND chain of smog
That sounds like cedh. Chalice can be a house there of course, but outside of stopping some mana rocks, doesnt really do anything in more casual games.
when you showed sublime epiphany against cryptic command you failed to mention the " counter target activated ability or triggered ability".... there is what? 4 cards in all of MTG that do that. completely different realm
i run both in my Talrand "NOPE" deck
As a player who's main deck is a CEDH mono white Myrel, I must heavily disagree with Flagstones of Trokair as it's a why not land. It enters untapped and makes white mana with a straight upside.
Also white is not the most unpopular colour in commander right now that is green. Green is missing any consistent control pieces and struggles to deal with an opponent who has already gone wide against them as they have no real boardwipe or target removal outside fight/bite spells.
White is unpopular in casual because stax is taboo. You’re thinking of specifically cEDH, where green is the worst by a sizable margin.
Who's being shown & told in the artwork?
I run Flagstones in multiple cEDH decks lol. Opportunity cost is everything
Also Narcomeba is a cEDH tech card frequently.
CEDH uses some very weird effects
I play the tron lands, and workshop in a colorless deck, and have thespians stage as a way to copy any of them to produce more colorless.
Bruh. The more I watch this the less I think he plays MTG at all. Dismember is still a 1 mana removal for most targets in the game and it bypasses indestructible.
Chalice is a staple of CEDH.
Dismember destroys almost every popular commander if you check edhrec, hard disagree on that one
Flagstones is an auto include for me in mono white because most of whites land ramp wants you to have less lands so lotus field, lotus vale, and scorched ruins are all auto includes for me. an they all work with flagstones because they require you to sac a land if they would enter. and if you think these are corner cases id like to introduce you to my favorite card ever: weathered wayfarer
If you are adding MLD, it’s also pretty busted if you have the Lorwyn Plains. Add on hatebears and you will just lock opponents out and you can just attack with no opposition.
@@satansamael666 what do you mean by lorwyn plains?
@@snowsurfer2512 the cycle of lands with basic land types from Lorwyn.
disagree with 5 and 3, dismember is pretty good if you consider that since commander starts at 40, its cost is just a theoretical 1 mana 2 life, and cryptic being on the list makes no sense to me, i've seen massive value out of the mini-sublime card from multiple players, is it as good as sublime? no just like a 1/1 can't hold a candle to Emrakul, i too like comparing apples and cucumbers
Dismember sees play in edh. Ragavan probably would’ve been a better pick
That also sees a lot of play. With 4 players it’s more likely to connect.
With all due respect, a lot of these cards see cEDH play, which is a format I love!
guys we ain't taking about cEDH
while most of this is fairly accurate, i would at least slightly disagree with the choices of show and tell and cryptic command.
while it may be significantly worse than in other formats, show and tell is a card that amplifies strategies like braids, conjurer adept (who gives a similar effect to each player during their upkeep) the other players will benefit from this effect too of course, however their decks are very likely simply not built to put out haymaker after haymaler turn after turn. with show the timing is relevant, as you just can wait to cast it until you have something in hand that ensures you get the most value out of it (in addition to the political power you gain from braid's/show's effect).
cryptic does indeed lose some of its power when compared to its performance in other formats, however, especially the tap down effect scales with the magnitude of the game and is significantly stronger due to political gain yet again, a worse card in commander of course, but by a landslide not a bad one imo
no...!
He cites missing out on cheap ramp as the big reason why Crashing Footfalls is unplayable but you only need to make your landrops. You can get land under the curve all day with landcyclers.
It is by a landslide on cryptic command though. You're pretty much only playing this thing in monoblue, and even there you have so many better counter spells, even including modal ones. Holding up 4 mana is ridiculous. Remand is the card that shouldn't be on the list as it's honestly an all star and totally underrated.
@@tonysmith9905 also dismember is a totally fine removal spell especially if you dont have that many black cards you can go lower on black sources
For flagstones why don’t u just play it in place of a plains in commander? It’s essentially the same and gets around destruction
Dismember is still a good card to our commanders for a single mana. You still have 40 life.
Remand is good in edh.
The table is a +0 and the turn player essentially lost tempo. In higher powered games such as edh delaying an engine or commander is the game.
My friend plays a Yoshimaru Rograk deck so he loves Flagstones of Trokair as it's a free 1+/1+ for Yoshi and doesnt tap.
I use narcomobea as a main combo piece for one of my decks. Also, I use show and tell as an niche alternative to my strategy with the same deck
4 horsemen is still pretty competitive in CEDH.
@@satansamael666On my end, it's nomads en-kor and cephalid illusionist with dread return and thassa's oracle
@@amecarethqc6652 interestingly enough, Mishra, Artificer Prodigy uses the jellyfish as fodder for Goblin Bombardment and just guns down the entire table.
show and tell in commander is insane, I've won on turn one and two pretty regularly.
SOMEONE TELL ME WHAT YYOU CAST TO CATCH A DREAM, THIS HAS BOTHERED ME AS LONG AS THAT FLAVOR TEXT HAS EXISTED
Bread.
Chalice is really good in cedh
Chalice and Dismember see quite a bit of cEDH play
Slow and tell and omniscience is still good in commander
Dismember is great as many others have said, snipes down a LOT of creatures, commanders included, for a bit of life and 1 mana. Would still play it to this day.
Remand also shouldn't be on this list. Sorry but as far as cheap counters go it's still one of the best. Not many don't lose you card advantage and returning a spell to hand in commander usually means they can't play it again this turn.
Also, those thinking cryptic command shouldn't be here are insane. Holding up 4 mana, triple blue, is difficult to do while advancing your gameplan. Low cost counters are what you need and you have a slew of them that are way better than this, even modal ones as well! Sorry but command has been outclassed long long time ago.
The only four mana counter spells that I would run are those that can get my mana back after spending it
@@jayredharpstudios9672 the only 4 mana counterspell id run is mind break trapp
Dismember is great in commander
I disagree with pretty much the whole list. Is just that good and bad depends solely on the context of the deck. Useless to tell if a card is good or bad in a vaccum because we don't play in a vaccum
Footfalls was a good pick, very underwhelming in commander.
cryptic command is still played a lot in commander
Sounds like you've never Remanded your own cascade creature 😂
6:40 I'm a stragner too
Like....half of these if not all of them are fine for EDH......
People need to remember that EDH is a casual format and shouldnt care what other people are playing in their deck. Youre a dick if you show up to a game of fun tribal decks with a top tier meta slave, mana crypt, one ring $800+ deck though.
flasgstones of tarkir and dismember are useful
Top 10 Elves
Brah, Delver isn't good in *Delver*. Why would you imagine it being decent in a better format?
I have certainly tried to make Delver work in commander. Mainly alongside Delver's more advanced versions, Aberrant Researcher and Docent of Perfection. It indeed quite the wall to get through.
You use it as card draw for spell slingers and CEDH spell sling as well. People dont know the REAL power of cards till somone els makes a deck that whipes the table lol
Amazing!!!!!
This list is terrible. Lol
First Comment
Cringe.
Nice
The only thing I disagree with is dismember and trokair, pretty funny these garbo in comment section think command is a staple.
Should've used low hanging fruit card like squadron hawk