If you increase the valve capacity you are going to have to pump it more to achieve the same pressure. And you probably won't capitalize on those gains without going to a longer barrel.
is this a video on how to shorten the life of your valve ? port matching and a little preload on the spring is all you do need to get the extra few FPS that modding a valve will give, and it won't weaken the valve components..
good video im going to try this to my 760 pumpmaster it has the same type one thing im going to do different is cut of some of that plastic on the top and bottom of the valve that will free a little more air up thank you for the info...
*Valve volume vs valve duration.* The valve body spring and the hammer spring are both carefully tuned to fully exhaust the stock valve body at rated pressures. Hell, pump a brand new c9a 14 times and you will STILL only get 8 pumps worth of air from it, leaving a 6 pump charge in the valve... Once you change ANY variable, you are entering guessworld. I recommend not messing with the springs at all, simply add a shim to the spring seat on either end of the hammer spring until you get your modded valve to fully empty on each shot. Once you cut, stretch or de-temper a spring it will no longer function reliably. Sixteen engineers, each with $100k+ educations figured out the spring rates, don't piss that away with your tinkering. As far as "mushrooming", fucking shit up is the risk you take by modding the valve but realistically, this simply is not a real life issue. The poppet stem is, (believe it or not!) designed to be smacked a bazillion times and not deform. Metallurgy is cool. Oh yeah, "angling" the exhaust port does absolutely nothing for flow dynamics and risks leaks and deformed mating surfaces. Polish, yes, grind, hell no.
angle the exhaust will help air escape faster PROVIDING you round off and polish the inside of the valve where it is angled inside the chamber.. if its a sharp exist it will not work any better at all. has to be rounded and polished realy good ( not worth the effort) exactly the same as you do when porting the exhaust on and internal combustion engine, can make a huge difference in getting rid of spent gasses faster.. BUT doing this would only give around 5ft per second if your lucky... if you make the inside of the valve a larger area you will then need a stronger faster hammer spring... exactly like converting a 3 shot sheriden silver streak to a 1 shot Sheridan.... 1st shot around 11.5ft lbs, 2nd shot around 10ft lbs and 3rd shot around 8ft lbs or a single shot of 20ft lbs...... Now for the mushroom effect with using a heavier spring on the hammer YES so best to go make a new pin of better metal or put like a top hat on the pin when the hammer hits. the pins are just a mild steel, nothing fancy. if made of stainless would be better or tool steel.
@@philldownes8685 porting the exhaust increases the size of the holes , that's not what he's doing here, he's simply grinding an angle on the inside without increasing the size of the actual hole. So the same amount of air under the same pressure would escape through the same size hole, regardless of the inside being sharp or smooth. Grinding that stem was an even worse idea...major failure point considering it gets hammered constantly.
You're right that the angling does nothing, I think the poster misunderstands how air flows. Air doesn't just enter the valve and "go around the corner as fast as it can". Air travels from high pressure to low pressure areas. You can't "encourage" airflow or make it faster by angling an exit port because it still won't travel through the port until there is adequate pressure inside the valve, and even then, it is travelling through the port at a speed proportional to the pressure inside the valve. Nothing to do with the angling of the port. Increasing the size of the transfer port is different because you're literally allowing more air through, but this "angling" for the sake of improving aerodynamics in the valve is non-sense.
If your gun is well used ( leaking air), then a rebuild/replacement kit will help. With any other "magic," if it makes you feel better, then do it TO YOUR GUN! As for the miniscule amount of possible gain, I'll leave mine STOCK. Yes, I'm trusting those guys with engineering degrees. 😮
Some of their better ones do, like the old classics, the 2289, the 1377, the 1322 etc. My 2289 from about 7 years ago has a brass trigger, brass bolt etc. but an aluminum block like this. The real cheap ones like the Pumpmasters and stuff they are trying to compete with the likes of Daisy, Umarex, ASG and many others all mostly making their stuff in China, including Crosman themselves I believe. An old Crosman .22 pumper just like this, that my grandfather had was identical to my 2289 and it was made much better. I remember it having a steel breach, etc. mine is plastic. The barrel band is plastic and flexes, making any barrel mounted small scope you put on it wobble if you bump it. Sure you can buy aftermarket parts, milled from brass, steel etc. but that will cost as much as the gun did, lol. I know I checked. That's how they maintain the prices they do. A guy on RUclips showed an old 1970's Pumpmaster 760 next to today's, what a difference. They were quality guns back then, not now. Sure, they shoot straight, Crosman's are known for being accurate shooters but now? Whatever they could cheap out on they did. Some of the guns are absolute junk. My 2289 is "o.k.", not horrible, but some of their stuff literally breaks so easy it shoots itself to death it's so poorly made. My Crosman hand pump pistol (turned carbine) is certainly NOT what my grandfather's was. It looks cooler, way cooler, but his, was a much better quality gun from the factory. Imagine, a brass bolt, in a plastic breach, lol. That's what you get with Crosman nowadays and many others.
If you want to increase the inside diameter of the air chamber wouldn't it be best to use a reamer or maybe a drill bit would be sufficient needs to be very precise and and smooth
OK, thanks for the info on the GoPro. Anyhow, I expect I can cope with the vid :) What about the integral strength of the valve after removing this amount of material. It seems that you weakened the structure... I presume you have used this pistol since the mod... have you suffered any failure of the valve? I have just inherited an original non-working1322 (it won't hold air), so I will be stripping and re-sealing this baby soon.
You missed modding the plastic parts that the spring pushing apart seals the valve. They can be shorter and beveled. And yes you will have to pump more and have a longer barrel. But from owning a Model One and seeing how much you can get from a half size valve my next 13XX valve mod will be decreasing the valve volume.
Cutting off part of the valve that threads into the other half of it leaves more space inside the valve for air to be stored. The overall dimensions of the valve has not been changed, just the volume of steel inside of it.
Some of the advice here is good but to be honnest ive done alot of these mods and DIY mods work but break faster. I did alot of this and buying parts made a better diffrence than diy tunes. Good vid tho. Juat hope it worked better than before. A vid of the new power would make it legit.
hi i have a American classic crosman 1377 .177 cal its an old one i think it was made in the 80's or 90's it will not pump up,,, What website did you get your parts from ? thanks for the video
found the CDN. spec. piston is further de-tuned with 1mm vent above the plunger hole . #2 x 56 NC was the perfect space tap . At least I know the screw size 🇨🇦
Instead of trying to increase valve air capacity by thinning the walls on a high pressure valve, what about increasing the length of the valve. This could only be done on a flat top valve I believe. Of course the additional air must totally be released to have any benefit. I have not tried this just throwing ideas out. But an additional o-ring or two would give you the equal amount of displacement I'm thinking. Like you said in the video, "it's not a lot but it's something" Great video!
when the valve is still in half and ready to be put together place a couple more o-rings on the original single ring to space the halves further apart, like I said I have not done this yet, but it would be do-able.
So I have an update on this, I took a flat top Valve that I received from Charles Mellon, (great guy with awesome parts, pistons valves etc.. btw) I immediately took the valve measurement T 58 mm, I increased the length to 60.3mm a 3.5% increase of air capacity, if the air capacity increase is relative to FPS increase. at 600 fps you would see 21 fps gain approx, imagine 7%!. the only issue I run into is that by elongating the valve the threads on the bottom of the valve that anchor into the grip do not line up. so yeah.. thats that. unless you drill out the screws in the grip and the tube as well. This can be done easily enough but for 20 fps?? is it worth it and that is hypothetically speaking. It could be done but not willing to try. just wanted to update my findings in case anybody was interested. once again loved your informative video Survivalist
I've modded dozens of these valves. Never cut more than two threads of the valves, it's too much and dangerous. It's better to use a drill bit that is slightly larger than the ID of the valve and drill it out. Just don't go so deep that the check valve loses its wall to slide on. You can hollow out the bottom of the valve but if you hit the threads, you're done and the valve will be ruined. Taking material off the hammer vlve is a good thing to do but be aware, it's hardenned steel so don't get it too hot. I use my lathe to turn the stem and a Dremmel shaping it while it's being turned.
All you are doing is increasing storage or volume, pressure is still the same, what Need's to be done is modifi the pump mechanism to increase pressure then you are actually doing something, opening the port decreases pressure what you are doing is good but if you get that pressure up you got your self a good shooter
Bhaloi, less space , but same volume of air making the air more compressed in the small encatchment, and sudden release of normal air contained to lesser space accomodated pressure from will exert more power? But the stable tactics is to use more air under utmost pressure utilizing more space but over exploiting the bigger space, cause big space can accommodate high air content and more air can generate more pressure regardless of the cabinet / chamber space . Its like say 1 cc cylinder can store 1cc air , but for 5 cc cylinder its not directly proportional but exponentially kind of proportional directly, ie it will contain 8-9 cc of air, i mean considerably more air that space provided, and this properties need be exploited
Best and easy way of concepting this is to be aware of by that more air producer more thurst and vice versa. Figure out the problem of your idea, overshadowing the pluspoint of compact gun needs precise parts to be handled friendly (Your biased mind of from plus point facility drawn of the Compact gun userfriendliness , Stalling you from finding a Solution of a problem i talked about here, that i conceived from your video, you do witnessed or came accross has, needs been addressed with .. 😊
+Jammoko It's a GoPro, so it's not like its an old camera per se. They're meant for that outdoor panorama format which doesn't work well indoors. As of 2016 I've upgraded to a better camera more suitable to table top videography.
Don't do the mod. I tried it. Ended up having to pump 4x to shoot my indoor target as oppose to 3x as before. One extra pump for same fps. Now I have to purchase New valve system to get my gun back.
For a gun with shorter barrel like this, you'd better off reducing the air volume in the valve. You'll get the same pressure with less number of pumps. And with shorter barrels, you won't have any problem of running out of air in the middle of the barrel. I use a piece of garden hose cut to length put inside the valve to reduce the volume. With longer barrel, you'll have a problem if you reduce the valve volume. Soon as it runs out of air in the middle of the barrel, the friction of the pellet and the barrel starts to slow down the pellet.
I have a video on how to increase the hammer spring tension on the hammer spring assembly which you cannot disassemble to change the hammer spring: ruclips.net/video/Pzc8GheZUS0/видео.html
To increase air volume is a losing game because you need to over pump to gain the same pressure do to the increase volume. Now ask your self couldn’t I just over pump a stock valve? Than what’s the point of an increase volume of air when you have a short pistol barrel not a longer rifle length barrel? Seems it would make the gun loader thus tricking people into thinking they got a gain in power.
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If you increase the valve capacity you are going to have to pump it more to achieve the same pressure. And you probably won't capitalize on those gains without going to a longer barrel.
is this a video on how to shorten the life of your valve ?
port matching and a little preload on the spring is all you do need to get the extra few FPS that modding a valve will give, and it won't weaken the valve components..
good video im going to try this to my 760 pumpmaster it has the same type one thing im going to do different is cut of some of that plastic on the top and bottom of the valve that will free a little more air up thank you for the info...
wow what a great vid on how to fuck up and bodge a crosman valve whilst high as a kite
Some will find value in this LOL !!!!
I liked the video ...
*Valve volume vs valve duration.* The valve body spring and the hammer spring are both carefully tuned to fully exhaust the stock valve body at rated pressures. Hell, pump a brand new c9a 14 times and you will STILL only get 8 pumps worth of air from it, leaving a 6 pump charge in the valve... Once you change ANY variable, you are entering guessworld. I recommend not messing with the springs at all, simply add a shim to the spring seat on either end of the hammer spring until you get your modded valve to fully empty on each shot. Once you cut, stretch or de-temper a spring it will no longer function reliably. Sixteen engineers, each with $100k+ educations figured out the spring rates, don't piss that away with your tinkering.
As far as "mushrooming", fucking shit up is the risk you take by modding the valve but realistically, this simply is not a real life issue. The poppet stem is, (believe it or not!) designed to be smacked a bazillion times and not deform. Metallurgy is cool.
Oh yeah, "angling" the exhaust port does absolutely nothing for flow dynamics and risks leaks and deformed mating surfaces. Polish, yes, grind, hell no.
angle the exhaust will help air escape faster PROVIDING you round off and polish the inside of the valve where it is angled inside the chamber.. if its a sharp exist it will not work any better at all. has to be rounded and polished realy good ( not worth the effort) exactly the same as you do when porting the exhaust on and internal combustion engine, can make a huge difference in getting rid of spent gasses faster.. BUT doing this would only give around 5ft per second if your lucky... if you make the inside of the valve a larger area you will then need a stronger faster hammer spring... exactly like converting a 3 shot sheriden silver streak to a 1 shot Sheridan.... 1st shot around 11.5ft lbs, 2nd shot around 10ft lbs and 3rd shot around 8ft lbs or a single shot of 20ft lbs...... Now for the mushroom effect with using a heavier spring on the hammer YES so best to go make a new pin of better metal or put like a top hat on the pin when the hammer hits. the pins are just a mild steel, nothing fancy. if made of stainless would be better or tool steel.
@@philldownes8685 porting the exhaust increases the size of the holes , that's not what he's doing here, he's simply grinding an angle on the inside without increasing the size of the actual hole. So the same amount of air under the same pressure would escape through the same size hole, regardless of the inside being sharp or smooth. Grinding that stem was an even worse idea...major failure point considering it gets hammered constantly.
You're right that the angling does nothing, I think the poster misunderstands how air flows. Air doesn't just enter the valve and "go around the corner as fast as it can". Air travels from high pressure to low pressure areas. You can't "encourage" airflow or make it faster by angling an exit port because it still won't travel through the port until there is adequate pressure inside the valve, and even then, it is travelling through the port at a speed proportional to the pressure inside the valve. Nothing to do with the angling of the port. Increasing the size of the transfer port is different because you're literally allowing more air through, but this "angling" for the sake of improving aerodynamics in the valve is non-sense.
If your gun is well used ( leaking air), then a rebuild/replacement kit will help. With any other "magic," if it makes you feel better, then do it TO YOUR GUN! As for the miniscule amount of possible gain, I'll leave mine STOCK. Yes, I'm trusting those guys with engineering degrees. 😮
This guns are kids plinking guns why even try to improve with all this fooling around ?
the crossman i have is 30 years old and has a solid brass valve/parts. i guess they dont make em like they used to.
Some of their better ones do, like the old classics, the 2289, the 1377, the 1322 etc. My 2289 from about 7 years ago has a brass trigger, brass bolt etc. but an aluminum block like this. The real cheap ones like the Pumpmasters and stuff they are trying to compete with the likes of Daisy, Umarex, ASG and many others all mostly making their stuff in China, including Crosman themselves I believe.
An old Crosman .22 pumper just like this, that my grandfather had was identical to my 2289 and it was made much better. I remember it having a steel breach, etc. mine is plastic. The barrel band is plastic and flexes, making any barrel mounted small scope you put on it wobble if you bump it. Sure you can buy aftermarket parts, milled from brass, steel etc. but that will cost as much as the gun did, lol. I know I checked.
That's how they maintain the prices they do. A guy on RUclips showed an old 1970's Pumpmaster 760 next to today's, what a difference. They were quality guns back then, not now. Sure, they shoot straight, Crosman's are known for being accurate shooters but now? Whatever they could cheap out on they did. Some of the guns are absolute junk. My 2289 is "o.k.", not horrible, but some of their stuff literally breaks so easy it shoots itself to death it's so poorly made. My Crosman hand pump pistol (turned carbine) is certainly NOT what my grandfather's was. It looks cooler, way cooler, but his, was a much better quality gun from the factory. Imagine, a brass bolt, in a plastic breach, lol. That's what you get with Crosman nowadays and many others.
Very informative! Thank you!
I would like to see a video modifying a crosman 1377 pistol to pcp replacing the manual pump by a bottle of hpa
Probably the best video on these topics I have seen. Thank you!
very well explained
If you want to increase the inside diameter of the air chamber wouldn't it be best to use a reamer or maybe a drill bit would be sufficient needs to be very precise and and smooth
OK, thanks for the info on the GoPro. Anyhow, I expect I can cope with the vid :) What about the integral strength of the valve after removing this amount of material. It seems that you weakened the structure... I presume you have used this pistol since the mod... have you suffered any failure of the valve? I have just inherited an original non-working1322 (it won't hold air), so I will be stripping and re-sealing this baby soon.
Thanks for this video, really helpful!
You missed modding the plastic parts that the spring pushing apart seals the valve. They can be shorter and beveled. And yes you will have to pump more and have a longer barrel. But from owning a Model One and seeing how much you can get from a half size valve my next 13XX valve mod will be decreasing the valve volume.
How does making a valve shorter by cutting it increase the air volume? What is the modded power increase?
Cutting off part of the valve that threads into the other half of it leaves more space inside the valve for air to be stored. The overall dimensions of the valve has not been changed, just the volume of steel inside of it.
Some of the advice here is good but to be honnest ive done alot of these mods and DIY mods work but break faster. I did alot of this and buying parts made a better diffrence than diy tunes. Good vid tho. Juat hope it worked better than before. A vid of the new power would make it legit.
cant i just plug te holes in the valve thats what i did to my sheridan and it worked great
So a lathe would do great for this then
Thanks for sharing.
Is there an upgrade that’s lets you pump as much as you can increasing pressure every pump
_ kvngmilton _ lol yea the daisy 880
hi i have a American classic crosman 1377 .177 cal its an old one i think it was made in the 80's or 90's it will not pump up,,, What website did you get your parts from ? thanks for the video
gmac custom shop
found the CDN. spec. piston is further de-tuned with 1mm vent above the plunger hole .
#2 x 56 NC was the perfect space tap . At least I know the screw size 🇨🇦
Thank you very much
awesome"
Instead of trying to increase valve air capacity by thinning the walls on a high pressure valve, what about increasing the length of the valve. This could only be done on a flat top valve I believe. Of course the additional air must totally be released to have any benefit. I have not tried this just throwing ideas out. But an additional o-ring or two would give you the equal amount of displacement I'm thinking. Like you said in the video, "it's not a lot but it's something" Great video!
I don't understand how you could increase the length of the valve. It's the same valve, only shorter once it's flat topped.
when the valve is still in half and ready to be put together place a couple more o-rings on the original single ring to space the halves further apart, like I said I have not done this yet, but it would be do-able.
Tephlon tape added to the threads would also helps with any potential leakage encountered
I've used the plumbers tape before, it works pretty good if needed.
So I have an update on this, I took a flat top Valve that I received from Charles Mellon, (great guy with awesome parts, pistons valves etc.. btw) I immediately took the valve measurement T 58 mm, I increased the length to 60.3mm a 3.5% increase of air capacity, if the air capacity increase is relative to FPS increase. at 600 fps you would see 21 fps gain approx, imagine 7%!. the only issue I run into is that by elongating the valve the threads on the bottom of the valve that anchor into the grip do not line up. so yeah.. thats that. unless you drill out the screws in the grip and the tube as well. This can be done easily enough but for 20 fps?? is it worth it and that is hypothetically speaking. It could be done but not willing to try. just wanted to update my findings in case anybody was interested. once again loved your informative video Survivalist
ok..thanks..ap crosman 1322? end 1377?
I've modded dozens of these valves. Never cut more than two threads of the valves, it's too much and dangerous. It's better to use a drill bit that is slightly larger than the ID of the valve and drill it out. Just don't go so deep that the check valve loses its wall to slide on. You can hollow out the bottom of the valve but if you hit the threads, you're done and the valve will be ruined.
Taking material off the hammer vlve is a good thing to do but be aware, it's hardenned steel so don't get it too hot. I use my lathe to turn the stem and a Dremmel shaping it while it's being turned.
NotSoDumb less material inside the valve leaves more space for air. The fps increase is less than 50.
NotSoDumb t
Do you have a crosssman.22 with all the mods for sale
All you are doing is increasing storage or volume, pressure is still the same, what Need's to be done is modifi the pump mechanism to increase pressure then you are actually doing something, opening the port decreases pressure what you are doing is good but if you get that pressure up you got your self a good shooter
Thank you
Bhaloi, less space , but same volume of air making the air more compressed in the small encatchment, and sudden release of normal air contained to lesser space accomodated pressure from will exert more power? But the stable tactics is to use more air under utmost pressure utilizing more space but over exploiting the bigger space, cause big space can accommodate high air content and more air can generate more pressure regardless of the cabinet / chamber space . Its like say 1 cc cylinder can store 1cc air , but for 5 cc cylinder its not directly proportional but exponentially kind of proportional directly, ie it will contain 8-9 cc of air, i mean considerably more air that space provided, and this properties need be exploited
Recon it will work better with ky jelly ?
1377 my hand pump will not function I've taken it apart cleaned it it still doesn't work going to throw it in the garbage.
seems to me you reduced the volume and increased the pressure.
That's what I was thinking..you take away mass to make the valve hold more for less pumps? Where is it the increase of Feet per second demo?
GKAtascosa its displacement vs pressure, hes increasing pressure presumably
Best and easy way of concepting this is to be aware of by that more air producer more thurst and vice versa. Figure out the problem of your idea, overshadowing the pluspoint of compact gun needs precise parts to be handled friendly (Your biased mind of from plus point facility drawn of the Compact gun userfriendliness , Stalling you from finding a Solution of a problem i talked about here, that i conceived from your video, you do witnessed or came accross has, needs been addressed with .. 😊
🚬👀
Can you find a better translator dude?
Any one it modify a sig sauer mpx rifle valves
where can i buy this online?
Ebay
salut c'est une usine a gaz ton truc ?
0:20 Spring moved by itself? Or evil spirits?
This video has a 4.3 aspect ratio... you should have used a more modern camera with a wide display format. It's like looking at a 1950's TV LOL
+Jammoko It's a GoPro, so it's not like its an old camera per se. They're meant for that outdoor panorama format which doesn't work well indoors. As of 2016 I've upgraded to a better camera more suitable to table top videography.
Don't do the mod. I tried it. Ended up having to pump 4x to shoot my indoor target as oppose to 3x as before. One extra pump for same fps. Now I have to purchase New valve system to get my gun back.
For a gun with shorter barrel like this, you'd better off reducing the air volume in the valve. You'll get the same pressure with less number of pumps. And with shorter barrels, you won't have any problem of running out of air in the middle of the barrel. I use a piece of garden hose cut to length put inside the valve to reduce the volume.
With longer barrel, you'll have a problem if you reduce the valve volume. Soon as it runs out of air in the middle of the barrel, the friction of the pellet and the barrel starts to slow down the pellet.
I have a video on how to increase the hammer spring tension on the hammer spring assembly which you cannot disassemble to change the hammer spring: ruclips.net/video/Pzc8GheZUS0/видео.html
Flat top piston is not a necessity. Depends on the valve itself.
To increase air volume is a losing game because you need to over pump to gain the same pressure do to the increase volume. Now ask your self couldn’t I just over pump a stock valve? Than what’s the point of an increase volume of air when you have a short pistol barrel not a longer rifle length barrel? Seems it would make the gun loader thus tricking people into thinking they got a gain in power.
reducing the thread, became weaker. bad mod
I don't think these are some good ideas unless you want your valve to explode Just Buy the party need to give you more FPS
needs to pin the valve with grub crews.
My 1377 is an absolute piece of junk.
Or you're completely clueless on what the issue is and how to fix it...