Really nice documentary. I have to ask thought, at minute 3:40 a steam locomotive in Southern Railway livery (thus confirming the date is prior to 1948) appears in color. I doubt it is on preservation because of the Bulleid coaches and the boogie mail wagon which wouldn't be on an excursion. Maybe I'm wrong, but I wanted to point it out so you could maybe answer me.
Goodness me. As a child growing up in Australia, and loving all things railways, I remember reading about the Golden Arrow. I had no idea of the history and the purpose of this train, but I remember thinking how wonderful the name was! We had our own Southern Aurora and Spirit of Progress, two crack services between Sydney and Melbourne, but , along with the Flying Scotsman, the old country seemed to have the edge in names. Thanks so much for the step back in time when I was a youngster.
Yep, I did both too a few times growing up, as well as all the old mail trains & pre-XPTs before they were axed. I preferred Spirit - it left later, took longer & I saw more! From memory, the Aurora left earlier like 6pm, then the Spirit left ~8pm. I loved the ceremony as countdown to departure came too. Cheers from Canberra - where we use the museum tracks to trundle our crappy Xplorer/Xploder up to Goulburn at 35kmh, 4h20m 'Xpress'.
As a child, I would accompany my mother on trips to Paris, taking a train from London to Dover and travelling by boat from there to Calais. It was a short walk from the boat to the station, the old Calais Maritime station (no longer exists) and we were off to Paris. Later, as a "grown up" with a job which was prepared to pay travel expenses, I took the Night Ferry in the 1970s to Paris, being aware that not only the airlines but the upcoming Chunnel would kill the service. Very odd going through customs and passport control on the platform in London and then onto coaches which indicated the location of the life jackets and (very French) the wine cellar on board. The British dining car serving food in the evening was replaced by a French one in the morning, so croissants and cafe-au-lait into Gare du Nord for 0900. A lovely anachronism.
Living, during childhood in the late 1950's - early 1960's, on boat train route A that these used I often watched them go past my back garden with neighbours children. In fact we used seeing them an excuse to stay up alte in summer until the Night Ferry (steam hauled) had gone by. I know they also used Folkestone to access the boat train as shown in the last shot here and was present the weekend of the re-enactment shown.
Great work! A fascinating documentary with an astonishing amount of history in just 16 minutes. Sadly, the Canterbury was broken up in 1965, although the bell survives at the NRM.
Before the Channel Tunnel travelling to Paris was quite an adventure. I made the journey in 1980. Victoria to Dover in a train of unrefurbished CEP stock, still with compartments! Dover Western Docks to Calais in a Sealink ferry. Then Calais to Paris in a train of new Corail stock very comfortable. I remember there was a change from diesel to electric haulage at Amiens. I think it all took about 8 hours. Paris has changed a bit since then.
I used to like the unrefurbished stock. Very comfortable. It was actually better to travel from Victoria to Dover Western Docks aboard the normal services. The boat trains were often full and crowded. Also, if you travelled on a normal service you could arrange to arrive before the boat train and be first in the queue for embarkation and avoid the crowd.
Excellent professional presentation - thank you. By-the-way, I worked on the Night Ferry in it's final days of the Travellers-Fare Restaurant Car. I worked London Victoria to Dover, then awaited the up morning service back to London, serving a full English breakfast. No croissants here!
Used to live near the route of the Golden arrow east of Paddock wood . Sadly by the time I could afford it it was no more. Did manage a trip on the Night Ferry but with the shunting at the docks and the extreme stuffiness in the bowels of the ship only managed a couple of hours sleep beteen Dunkirk and Paris.
I remember seeing the Golden arrow when I was a child at Dawlish with Tangmere on the front and her coming to a top at a signal right in front of the bridge if you find the video on RUclips you can just see me waving to the train on the bridge.
I've got a very nice re-print of a CIWL carriage poster. quite large too. Bought it on the Dover/Calais ferry about 35 years ago for about £2. Now framed in a burr walnut frame! Very interesting film!!!
I go back to when Tonbridge was all steam, even with a push&pull service between Sevenoaks ( end of electric) & Tonbridge so all my experiences for a few short years was usually 34100 Appledore if my memory serves me well. Didn’t see the Night ferry so often. Ah, Time Machine, where are ye!
Given the success of the NightJet and other continental services, it's hard to believe that with the (near) completion of HS2 someone wouldn't try a night train. One obstacle is the lack of passenger traffic in the channel tunnel during the night. Thank you!
In the early 70s I travelled by train from Milan to Calais in a train that had a Wagon Lis on it, that was the last remnants of the Orient express. Lovely views through The Alps!🧐
Interesting video. I remember the Golden Arrow well, although never took it. As for the Silver Arrow, I wouldn't call Le Touquet "Paris Le Touquet". It's about 140 miles NW of Paris. The town itself is called Le Touquet Paris-Plage (which may be the source of the confusion).The Silver Arrow had a spur line off the main Gare du Nord - Calais line just before Etaples that allowed it to cross the tarmac right up to to the arrivals hall. That would make a good video too.
The Children’s Film Foundation film ‘Night Ferry’ occasionally gets a screening on Talking Pictures TV. The last act is set on the titular train and features much interesting historical footage. (And Bernard Cribbins!)
I believe there's only the mainland Italy to Sicily train ferry now, although I 've done various routes to and around the Scandinavian countries. It's quite an experience!
I think their time will come again, as domestic air travel is wound down, due to fuel costs, were electric rail is employed for international and long distance journeys.
Personally, when I lived in London I wouldn’t have even considered flying to Paris, Brussels or Lille (and possibly most of the other Eurostar destinations too) - so as long as you’re based near London then travel from the U.K. makes the most sense to these locations by train. But then I’m not a particular fan of flying either, which helps the logic. If the full extent of HS2 becomes a reality then the same would apply to those destinations in the North too.
Most people just do not have the time or money to use long distance train travel when their breaks are but a fortnight. Spending a day or two on trains in both directions is too slow and too expensive. Long distance rail has gone the same way as ocean liners for the same reasons. As he said, it cost the equivalent of £700 each way!
Although I never used the direct night sleeper service as a teenager in the early 1960s, I went on a school trip to Switzerland where we took the regular train from London to Dover, boarded the ferry and then took a Wagon Lit service overnight to Switzerland. This was perhaps then a more common way of doing longer distance European travel. I would like to think you are pessimistic on the possibility of the re-introduction of overnight trains which seem to be having a revival in Europe in the mid distance market where, even excluding environmental considerations, overnight travel could be very cost and time effective for example London to Switzerland or Germany or Scotland to Paris.
In the 1970s and 80s I remember travelling via the London Victoria to Paris st Lazare via Newhaven to Dieppe. This was the advertised service between London and Paris. Is there any history to this service?
It was an alternative route I also took, with very easy interchange between train and ferry at both Newhaven Harbour and Dieppe. However, unlike the routes via Dpver, the longer crossing meant it wasn't as fast and there was never a train ferry. There was a period when British Rail ran a Manchester to Newhaven Harbour service connecting with the overnight ferry and return in the morning as an extension of their Gatwick Airport trains from the north. The overnight ferry was long enough to be tiring but too short for sleeping berths, so it was a very fatiguing way to Paris. Eurostar is vastly better.
I've recently seen some of your older videos, and I must say I prefer your narration from back then. It sounds much more relaxed and natural. These new videos, you sound like an AI-generated version of yourself.
Paris Le Touquet airport? I don't think even Ryanair would try that one on. Le Touquet is a French coastal town 158 miles from Paris. There was a connecting onward train service. It is sad that in continental Europe there was never a problem of operating through trains or sleeping car trains across frontiers (pre-EU and pre-Schengen) including across the Iron Curtain to and from Eastern Europe, with all frontier formalities usually carried out aboard the train. I think the real problem here was the airport style security applied to anything passing through the tunnel in case anybody was trying to blow it up.
Domestic airline services did not fly between the UK and France. That is an international route. Domestic air services are UK-UK or France-France. (1min 41)
Human nature is strange. People do not want the inconvenience of train, ferry then second train. They simply want either one aircraft journey with tube or suburban rail between airport and City Centre, Eurostar trains go from the Centre of London to the Centre of Paris. 2 hour transit times. One day with the Lyon to Turin Base Tunnel open might get a market for London to Venice but even that market would never justify a night train service. Technology and Fixed Link Infrastructure Projects will always be seen as more convenient.
With Global Warming and the time and chaos transiting an airport with the travel to and from a city centre, long distance international train travel is making a comeback. Helped by countries such as France banning internal flights where the same journey can be made by train in 2 hours. That's almost 400 miles on an high speed direct service.
A lot of internal domestic flights in France collapsed well before the “Global Warning” scare was invented, when the new Ligne a Grande Vitesse came to life in the early 1980s.
Really nice documentary. I have to ask thought, at minute 3:40 a steam locomotive in Southern Railway livery (thus confirming the date is prior to 1948) appears in color. I doubt it is on preservation because of the Bulleid coaches and the boogie mail wagon which wouldn't be on an excursion. Maybe I'm wrong, but I wanted to point it out so you could maybe answer me.
Goodness me. As a child growing up in Australia, and loving all things railways, I remember reading about the Golden Arrow. I had no idea of the history and the purpose of this train, but I remember thinking how wonderful the name was! We had our own Southern Aurora and Spirit of Progress, two crack services between Sydney and Melbourne, but , along with the Flying Scotsman, the old country seemed to have the edge in names. Thanks so much for the step back in time when I was a youngster.
Yep, I did both too a few times growing up, as well as all the old mail trains & pre-XPTs before they were axed. I preferred Spirit - it left later, took longer & I saw more! From memory, the Aurora left earlier like 6pm, then the Spirit left ~8pm. I loved the ceremony as countdown to departure came too.
Cheers from Canberra - where we use the museum tracks to trundle our crappy Xplorer/Xploder up to Goulburn at 35kmh, 4h20m 'Xpress'.
Excellent history and top presentation, as usual.
As a child, I would accompany my mother on trips to Paris, taking a train from London to Dover and travelling by boat from there to Calais. It was a short walk from the boat to the station, the old Calais Maritime station (no longer exists) and we were off to Paris. Later, as a "grown up" with a job which was prepared to pay travel expenses, I took the Night Ferry in the 1970s to Paris, being aware that not only the airlines but the upcoming Chunnel would kill the service. Very odd going through customs and passport control on the platform in London and then onto coaches which indicated the location of the life jackets and (very French) the wine cellar on board. The British dining car serving food in the evening was replaced by a French one in the morning, so croissants and cafe-au-lait into Gare du Nord for 0900. A lovely anachronism.
Living, during childhood in the late 1950's - early 1960's, on boat train route A that these used I often watched them go past my back garden with neighbours children. In fact we used seeing them an excuse to stay up alte in summer until the Night Ferry (steam hauled) had gone by. I know they also used Folkestone to access the boat train as shown in the last shot here and was present the weekend of the re-enactment shown.
Much valuable information and insight I had not been aware of. Great thanks as a railway enthusiast. Now subscribed. Keep up the good work.
Great work! A fascinating documentary with an astonishing amount of history in just 16 minutes. Sadly, the Canterbury was broken up in 1965, although the bell survives at the NRM.
Wonderful thanks for producing your channel
Before the Channel Tunnel travelling to Paris was quite an adventure. I made the journey in 1980. Victoria to Dover in a train of unrefurbished CEP stock, still with compartments! Dover Western Docks to Calais in a Sealink ferry. Then Calais to Paris in a train of new Corail stock very comfortable. I remember there was a change from diesel to electric haulage at Amiens. I think it all took about 8 hours. Paris has changed a bit since then.
Ah, side compartments, on a CEP with their orange curtains. You could, with some imagination, believe there was a steam loco up front!
I used to like the unrefurbished stock. Very comfortable. It was actually better to travel from Victoria to Dover Western Docks aboard the normal services. The boat trains were often full and crowded. Also, if you travelled on a normal service you could arrange to arrive before the boat train and be first in the queue for embarkation and avoid the crowd.
Another great video. Thank you.
Excellent professional presentation - thank you. By-the-way, I worked on the Night Ferry in it's final days of the Travellers-Fare Restaurant Car. I worked London Victoria to Dover, then awaited the up morning service back to London, serving a full English breakfast. No croissants here!
I’ve seen that golden arrow headboard before with taw valley
Used to live near the route of the Golden arrow east of Paddock wood . Sadly by the time I could afford it it was no more. Did manage a trip on the Night Ferry but with the shunting at the docks and the extreme stuffiness in the bowels of the ship only managed a couple of hours sleep beteen Dunkirk and Paris.
I like both of these train services but I hope they’re still in service
Good stuff 👍🏻
I remember seeing the Golden arrow when I was a child at Dawlish with Tangmere on the front and her coming to a top at a signal right in front of the bridge if you find the video on RUclips you can just see me waving to the train on the bridge.
I've got a very nice re-print of a CIWL carriage poster. quite large too. Bought it on the Dover/Calais ferry about 35 years ago for about £2. Now framed in a burr walnut frame! Very interesting film!!!
The footage from 2:11 to 2:29 is from the 1896 Melbourne Cup, a world away from the English Channel.
As a child, the Golden Arrow was my favourite. I once took the Venice Simplon Orient Express from London to Venice and it was excellent.
I remember seeing this stopped at Tonbridge station in Kent back in the 90’s once. I got some great photos of it.
I go back to when Tonbridge was all steam, even with a push&pull service between Sevenoaks ( end of electric) & Tonbridge so all my experiences for a few short years was usually 34100 Appledore if my memory serves me well. Didn’t see the Night ferry so often. Ah, Time Machine, where are ye!
1:25 This Golden Arrow And Night Ferry Trains Are Awesome. Thanks Mate. X❤
Sadly my experience of train ferry train to Europe was in the 1980s, I’ll say no more..
Sadly the last Night Ferry service ran on 31 October 1980, so you must have been one of the last passengers to use it.
Given the success of the NightJet and other continental services, it's hard to believe that with the (near) completion of HS2 someone wouldn't try a night train. One obstacle is the lack of passenger traffic in the channel tunnel during the night. Thank you!
Fantastic video!
Yes great show again ..thanks
In the early 70s I travelled by train from Milan to Calais in a train that had a Wagon Lis on it, that was the last remnants of the Orient express. Lovely views through The Alps!🧐
Interesting video. I remember the Golden Arrow well, although never took it. As for the Silver Arrow, I wouldn't call Le Touquet "Paris Le Touquet". It's about 140 miles NW of Paris. The town itself is called Le Touquet Paris-Plage (which may be the source of the confusion).The Silver Arrow had a spur line off the main Gare du Nord - Calais line just before Etaples that allowed it to cross the tarmac right up to to the arrivals hall. That would make a good video too.
Fascinating once again, thank you very much and regards.
The Children’s Film Foundation film ‘Night Ferry’ occasionally gets a screening on Talking Pictures TV. The last act is set on the titular train and features much interesting historical footage. (And Bernard Cribbins!)
THNX from CBR AU, RMV. =)
On the plus side some of The Wagons-Lits Boat Train coaches have been preserved. I think The Nene Valley Preserved railway has some.
They do, and the Nene Valley can cope with continental gauge stock as well. I can remember riding in an old Swedish carriage on that line.
I believe there's only the mainland Italy to Sicily train ferry now, although I 've done various routes to and around the Scandinavian countries. It's quite an experience!
Yes, I traveled from Milano to Napoli, thence Napoli to Palermo, oh back in the 70’s.
Clicked Immediately!
I think their time will come again, as domestic air travel is wound down, due to fuel costs, were electric rail is employed for international and long distance journeys.
Personally, when I lived in London I wouldn’t have even considered flying to Paris, Brussels or Lille (and possibly most of the other Eurostar destinations too) - so as long as you’re based near London then travel from the U.K. makes the most sense to these locations by train. But then I’m not a particular fan of flying either, which helps the logic.
If the full extent of HS2 becomes a reality then the same would apply to those destinations in the North too.
The full extent of HS2 ain't ever going to happen.
Most people just do not have the time or money to use long distance train travel when their breaks are but a fortnight. Spending a day or two on trains in both
directions is too slow and too expensive. Long distance rail has gone the same way as ocean liners for the same reasons. As he said, it cost the equivalent of £700 each way!
@@philipkay8116 well yes - that’s a whole other topic!
35028 Clan Line hauling the Golden Arrow
Although I never used the direct night sleeper service as a teenager in the early 1960s, I went on a school trip to Switzerland where we took the regular train from London to Dover, boarded the ferry and then took a Wagon Lit service overnight to Switzerland. This was perhaps then a more common way of doing longer distance European travel.
I would like to think you are pessimistic on the possibility of the re-introduction of overnight trains which seem to be having a revival in Europe in the mid distance market where, even excluding environmental considerations, overnight travel could be very cost and time effective for example London to Switzerland or Germany or Scotland to Paris.
In the 1970s and 80s I remember travelling via the London Victoria to Paris st Lazare via Newhaven to Dieppe. This was the advertised service between London and Paris. Is there any history to this service?
It was an alternative route I also took, with very easy interchange between train and ferry at both Newhaven Harbour and Dieppe. However, unlike the routes via Dpver, the longer crossing meant it wasn't as fast and there was never a train ferry. There was a period when British Rail ran a Manchester to Newhaven Harbour service connecting with the overnight ferry and return in the morning as an extension of their Gatwick Airport trains from the north. The overnight ferry was long enough to be tiring but too short for sleeping berths, so it was a very fatiguing way to Paris. Eurostar is vastly better.
Oh, you should do "The Hook Continental"!
Someone told me a year or so ago that Dover Marine station was now a supermarket.
I've recently seen some of your older videos, and I must say I prefer your narration from back then. It sounds much more relaxed and natural.
These new videos, you sound like an AI-generated version of yourself.
Paris Le Touquet airport? I don't think even Ryanair would try that one on. Le Touquet is a French coastal town 158 miles from Paris. There was a connecting onward train service.
It is sad that in continental Europe there was never a problem of operating through trains or sleeping car trains across frontiers (pre-EU and pre-Schengen) including across the Iron Curtain to and from Eastern Europe, with all frontier formalities usually carried out aboard the train. I think the real problem here was the airport style security applied to anything passing through the tunnel in case anybody was trying to blow it up.
Domestic airline services did not fly between the UK and France. That is an international route. Domestic air services are UK-UK or France-France. (1min 41)
I rode on the night ferry in the 1970's
Where did you find the pronunciation: 'Internashional'. Or do you have a cold.
Human nature is strange. People do not want the inconvenience of train, ferry then second train. They simply want either one aircraft journey with tube or suburban rail between airport and City Centre, Eurostar trains go from the Centre of London to the Centre of Paris. 2 hour transit times.
One day with the Lyon to Turin Base Tunnel open might get a market for London to Venice but even that market would never justify a night train service. Technology and Fixed Link Infrastructure Projects will always be seen as more convenient.
France is a proper name: a courtesy would be to pronounce her name correctly: without the hard 'a'.
With Global Warming and the time and chaos transiting an airport with the travel to and from a city centre, long distance international train travel is making a comeback. Helped by countries such as France banning internal flights where the same journey can be made by train in 2 hours. That's almost 400 miles on an high speed direct service.
A lot of internal domestic flights in France collapsed well before the “Global Warning” scare was invented, when the new Ligne a Grande Vitesse came to life in the early 1980s.
Lovely train, but excluding.
So from 6 pound 10 shilling to 700 pounds. I call that a fabulous display of economic crashing and burning on a biblical scale.
All intercity services in Europe should be by train to reduce carbon emissions.