I hope so, but I am not sure they are getting the message yet. Most think it is interest rates that are the problem. The bigger story is that the high-end of the market is collapsing. Camping World's latest number confirm this, as average price has dropped almost 17% YoY. This has huge effects as they can't survive selling $20-25k trailers to newbies.
Have to be nutz to by an RV today. Especially class A B C anything drivable. If u break down the material cost to labor costs better off buying land in remote area and have fun building an off grid tiny cabin. Better chance of not loosing ur shirt plus u have a possibility of gaining an asset vs a huge liability…
It's all about economic rental cost. I actually sold my R-Pod in 2022 for more than I paid for it in 2017, but there was a huge amount of $ and time I had to put into it, as well as incredible stress at times. I had some good times in it, but my memory of the ownership experience soured me a good deal on RVing in general. At least I'm more of a realist now and know it will cost to maintain the option to travel this way. Thanks for the great comment, you may be right about building an off-grid get tiny cabin!
Great update on the woes of the RV industry! Some RV manufacturers just don’t care about helping the customers! Continuing to give themselves a black eye! Thanks John .👍😁🇺🇸
Glad the newscast was enjoyable. I think some industry folk will be waking up to be more customer focused as things may worsen in the next while. I sure hope a lesson is learned.
I think your dealer friend's comments are on point with the economy. Old folks retiring have plenty of cash and young people are struggling to pay rent. I hate to say it, but I think the RV industry will be in big trouble within a decade. Younger generations won't have as much disposable income as the cost of living continues out of control. Sad stuff... hopefully incomes will increase eventually.
I've had 4 travel trailers. No matter if it was a 2018, 2020 or 2021, I've always had to do repairs and maintenance. If you get into RV's thinking it's going to be like owning a car or truck you're in for a rude awakening. The quality control is nowhere near as good and there are no lemon laws. Simply put, if you are not handy with tools and aren't skilled at fixing things you're bound to be dissatisfied. For us, RVing is well worth it. We have 2 dogs so flying is pretty much out. They have to be stuffed under the seat for the entire flight, so you have to give them tranquilizers/sedation. We tried it a couple times and said never again. With our RV we can cook whatever we want, whenever we want without going to a restaurant and paying the high prices and tipping. Hotel prices are too much plus some want to charge extra fees for the dogs and for parking. To me, you can't beat the feeling of the outdoors and the freedom of making your own way.
I will never ever ever ever ever buy any RV of *any* type or kind. Horrendous RV quality, laughable RV prices, atrocious RV maintenance time and cost. With a standard car, you have a much higher quality vehicle, much lower fuel bill per mile, much greater legal protection for lemons and warranty repair, many more reasonable car repair options. Today, it is significantly cheaper to take a sedan or small SUV for a road trip, using short-term rentals or hotel incentives for lodging (e.g. buy two or three nights, get the next one free). The car fuel savings alone is enormous. RV camping fees are now so high that car + lodging is nearly always the superior choice.
You are right...and after a bad experience I went through this line of thinking too. But I love rving so much...and those campsites by the lakes are so wonderful. It angers me that this industry lacks the protections and regulations it so clearly needs.
Been rving now since 2007, all travel trailers. The early coaches were well built, mostly Sunnybrook (excellent rvs). I now have downscaled to a 2018 27’ Flagstaff 25bds, it pulls well, I have my own bed to sleep in, outdoor kitchen which I love to use, cooking my own meals wherever I wind up. I can take my mutts with me also. Yeah prices of rv parks have gone up, they will decrease with less demand, but I still like takin my home with me. Happy Trails!
Have to respectfully disagree. There are used units out there where an owner has already gone through the warranty and fix cycle and the trailer is fairly dialed in. I'd put my 2020 Keystone in this category. I've had years of good use with it and over 600 nights in some great locations. I've paid the ongoing maintenance price to have it in this condition. However, I can't recommend buying most new units right now, which I think you are referring to. Thanks!
I bought our 6th motorhome two years ago spanning 30 years of rving, yeah and we love it but there again I have a horrible hate beyond belief for the manufacturers as a whole. I don’t feel sorry when small rv companies go under and I don’t feel bad for the workers neither. Time for them to be punished and go out of business or get it together along with the dealerships. And as for the CEO’s of these rv companies,, well they are ALL a bunch of over paid tools, all of them. Their objectives are money, stocks and their paycheck’s. Not quality, reputation, longevity and retaining customers and all around reputation. So they get no mercy from me.
You are welcome. I really think that some of the most stressful periods of my adult life have been when I though the entire value of my RV was at risk b/c the manufacture wasn't willing to correct a serious structural issue they created. Once you understand how the RVIA works by taking money from the purchase process (from the customer) to legislate against RV customers by keeping lemon laws off the books, it becomes evident that the system is rigged for the manufacturers and they can ruin your investment without much recourse.
Sorry, the moment I reveal a confidential source, I slam the door on anyone within the industry trusting me with their story. I can say they are an independent and not a large chain. Thanks!
Out of warrantee 2021 171 Pod with the 'drooping' - meaning falling-off-the-wall - front window shade issue...my Chippewa Falls WI dealer response: "We didn't install your front window, Forest River did." I plugged the stripped out holes with toothpicks & woodglue, then replanted the screws. Forest River sent me three plastic clips to add as additional support, but no screws, as indicated in the Service Bulletin. When I inspected following winter storage a few weeks ago, the lower shade mounts have now pulled away from the wall...there is NO PG rated comment for my frustration...
Great information as always. I always look forward to your post. Industry broken is so true. Cash sales all time high, i a little surprised at cost of an RV. Sad but so true about warranty difficulties. My RV had rust on the frame. It clearly was where it sat on the assembly line as they painted, but not where it sat. I was lucky. One it was so blatant that frame manufacturer 100% missed fully applying paint. At first manufacturer said it was environmental and i should sand and paint on my own. Not a warranty issue. But my Dealer fought for me and got 2hr approval to sand and paint. Looking at Dealer work I pretty sure they spent more than 2hr working on my RV. My cost zero dollars. This is twice my Dealer went to batt with a manufacturer. 1) the missed undercoat and paint they had to fight for me. 2) my WDH hitch. The angle bolt backed out. I emailed the hitch company for torque and there reply was: warranty is voided. No answer to torque of the angle bolt. It was a long email back and forth with them and they would not relent on the void of warranty. The stupid thing was, I wasn’t asking for parts or money. I just wanted to know the torque of the angle bolt. So i drove out to my Dealer. They called the area rep and i got an apology. Got my WDH fixed. Got home and darn it, that same rep that gave me a hard time he emailed me probably after being corrected, because i turned over my emails to the Dealer , who turned them over to the WDH rep, still saying, due to my lack of preventative maintenance the warranty is void. Well my hitch is very popular and very quality, so i doubt I will have a warranty issue. Plus as a mechanic i am rather OCD on my preventative maintenance anyway. Thanks again for your great info.
Many thanks for sharing your experience. I also found a dealer who has fought for me. I have said it before and I really mean it - it is more important to find a good dealer than a good RV. Thanks again and all the best!
Agreed. I think we are in the middle of a great un-RVing in America. So many people jumped in b/c of the pandemic and were totally inoculated from it going forward. I suppose I blame the industry for giving in fully to the crazed demand and showing no restraint - really a greed-rules issue. I remember in Dec 2021 when they were bragging about 600k units delivered, I thought what a huge mistake in over saturation and allowing unskilled workers into the production process.
We'll have to wait and see. If the dealers haven't already moved to more service, and are relying on sales, I think times will be tough. I personally think smaller fiscally conservative dealers may be okay. The dealer who exercised restraint during the pandemic (knowing good times never last and didn't over order), likely will be okay.
As always my thanks for an informative post. I noticed the quality bereft RV manufacturer was not named. I guess they’ll threaten lawsuit if you do so.
I need to maintain confidentiality for the sake of the owner who is wrestling with the RV manufacturer to get his rig fixed. I have no problem calling out a manufacturer (see my Ember video).
The reason I mentioned the lawsuit John is ‘Liz Amazing’, also on RUclips, who calls out bad quality RV’s has been threatened with lawsuits by some RV manufacturers. Scary situation potentially having to have to fight these people in court. They have mighty deep pockets?
I did see her video about this situation. I have not reviewed other of her videos about RV quality or where she is calling out specific manufacturers. I think acting as journalists those of us who report "RV News" need to be very careful reporting verified facts or people's actual experiences, and if we are doing this, we have to be courageous if large companies threaten us.
![NOSFERATU - Official Trailer [HD] - Only In Theaters December 25](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nulvWqYUM8k/mqdefault.jpg)
The poor quality coming out of Indiana is catching up to them.
I hope so, but I am not sure they are getting the message yet. Most think it is interest rates that are the problem. The bigger story is that the high-end of the market is collapsing. Camping World's latest number confirm this, as average price has dropped almost 17% YoY. This has huge effects as they can't survive selling $20-25k trailers to newbies.
Have to be nutz to by an RV today. Especially class A B C anything drivable. If u break down the material cost to labor costs better off buying land in remote area and have fun building an off grid tiny cabin. Better chance of not loosing ur shirt plus u have a possibility of gaining an asset vs a huge liability…
It's all about economic rental cost. I actually sold my R-Pod in 2022 for more than I paid for it in 2017, but there was a huge amount of $ and time I had to put into it, as well as incredible stress at times. I had some good times in it, but my memory of the ownership experience soured me a good deal on RVing in general. At least I'm more of a realist now and know it will cost to maintain the option to travel this way. Thanks for the great comment, you may be right about building an off-grid get tiny cabin!
Great update on the woes of the RV industry! Some RV manufacturers just don’t care about helping the customers! Continuing to give themselves a black eye! Thanks John .👍😁🇺🇸
Glad the newscast was enjoyable. I think some industry folk will be waking up to be more customer focused as things may worsen in the next while. I sure hope a lesson is learned.
I think your dealer friend's comments are on point with the economy. Old folks retiring have plenty of cash and young people are struggling to pay rent. I hate to say it, but I think the RV industry will be in big trouble within a decade. Younger generations won't have as much disposable income as the cost of living continues out of control. Sad stuff... hopefully incomes will increase eventually.
Wish I could shop but the quality since 2020 is not worth it.
I've had 4 travel trailers. No matter if it was a 2018, 2020 or 2021, I've always had to do repairs and maintenance. If you get into RV's thinking it's going to be like owning a car or truck you're in for a rude awakening. The quality control is nowhere near as good and there are no lemon laws. Simply put, if you are not handy with tools and aren't skilled at fixing things you're bound to be dissatisfied. For us, RVing is well worth it. We have 2 dogs so flying is pretty much out. They have to be stuffed under the seat for the entire flight, so you have to give them tranquilizers/sedation. We tried it a couple times and said never again. With our RV we can cook whatever we want, whenever we want without going to a restaurant and paying the high prices and tipping. Hotel prices are too much plus some want to charge extra fees for the dogs and for parking.
To me, you can't beat the feeling of the outdoors and the freedom of making your own way.
Great articulation for RVing. Fully agree. Thanks for sharing!
@@JohnMarucci Thanks John.
I will never ever ever ever ever buy any RV of *any* type or kind. Horrendous RV quality, laughable RV prices, atrocious RV maintenance time and cost. With a standard car, you have a much higher quality vehicle, much lower fuel bill per mile, much greater legal protection for lemons and warranty repair, many more reasonable car repair options. Today, it is significantly cheaper to take a sedan or small SUV for a road trip, using short-term rentals or hotel incentives for lodging (e.g. buy two or three nights, get the next one free). The car fuel savings alone is enormous. RV camping fees are now so high that car + lodging is nearly always the superior choice.
You are right...and after a bad experience I went through this line of thinking too. But I love rving so much...and those campsites by the lakes are so wonderful. It angers me that this industry lacks the protections and regulations it so clearly needs.
Been rving now since 2007, all travel trailers. The early coaches were well built, mostly Sunnybrook (excellent rvs). I now have downscaled to a 2018 27’ Flagstaff 25bds, it pulls well, I have my own bed to sleep in, outdoor kitchen which I love to use, cooking my own meals wherever I wind up. I can take my mutts with me also. Yeah prices of rv parks have gone up, they will decrease with less demand, but I still like takin my home with me.
Happy Trails!
Have to respectfully disagree. There are used units out there where an owner has already gone through the warranty and fix cycle and the trailer is fairly dialed in. I'd put my 2020 Keystone in this category. I've had years of good use with it and over 600 nights in some great locations. I've paid the ongoing maintenance price to have it in this condition. However, I can't recommend buying most new units right now, which I think you are referring to. Thanks!
John - would you ever recommend a Class C Motorhome instead of truck & trailer?
Why are you watching these videos if you have no interest in RVs?
I bought our 6th motorhome two years ago spanning 30 years of rving, yeah and we love it but there again I have a horrible hate beyond belief for the manufacturers as a whole. I don’t feel sorry when small rv companies go under and I don’t feel bad for the workers neither. Time for them to be punished and go out of business or get it together along with the dealerships. And as for the CEO’s of these rv companies,, well they are ALL a bunch of over paid tools, all of them. Their objectives are money, stocks and their paycheck’s. Not quality, reputation, longevity and retaining customers and all around reputation. So they get no mercy from me.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
TY so much for keeping us posted , updated and educated!😊
You are welcome!
I share your experience, concern and frustration with the warranty process. Thanks for your reporting.
You are welcome. I really think that some of the most stressful periods of my adult life have been when I though the entire value of my RV was at risk b/c the manufacture wasn't willing to correct a serious structural issue they created. Once you understand how the RVIA works by taking money from the purchase process (from the customer) to legislate against RV customers by keeping lemon laws off the books, it becomes evident that the system is rigged for the manufacturers and they can ruin your investment without much recourse.
Can I ask who your dealer is? Honestly, I've found that most dealers are beholden to the manufacturers, even the good ones. It's demoralizing.
Sorry, the moment I reveal a confidential source, I slam the door on anyone within the industry trusting me with their story. I can say they are an independent and not a large chain. Thanks!
Out of warrantee 2021 171 Pod with the 'drooping' - meaning falling-off-the-wall - front window shade issue...my Chippewa Falls WI dealer response: "We didn't install your front window, Forest River did." I plugged the stripped out holes with toothpicks & woodglue, then replanted the screws. Forest River sent me three plastic clips to add as additional support, but no screws, as indicated in the Service Bulletin. When I inspected following winter storage a few weeks ago, the lower shade mounts have now pulled away from the wall...there is NO PG rated comment for my frustration...
Sorry to hear this. Thanks for sharing. Hope things work out.
Great information as always. I always look forward to your post.
Industry broken is so true.
Cash sales all time high, i a little surprised at cost of an RV.
Sad but so true about warranty difficulties. My RV had rust on the frame. It clearly was where it sat on the assembly line as they painted, but not where it sat. I was lucky. One it was so blatant that frame manufacturer 100% missed fully applying paint. At first manufacturer said it was environmental and i should sand and paint on my own. Not a warranty issue. But my Dealer fought for me and got 2hr approval to sand and paint. Looking at Dealer work I pretty sure they spent more than 2hr working on my RV. My cost zero dollars.
This is twice my Dealer went to batt with a manufacturer.
1) the missed undercoat and paint they had to fight for me.
2) my WDH hitch. The angle bolt backed out. I emailed the hitch company for torque and there reply was: warranty is voided. No answer to torque of the angle bolt. It was a long email back and forth with them and they would not relent on the void of warranty. The stupid thing was, I wasn’t asking for parts or money. I just wanted to know the torque of the angle bolt. So i drove out to my Dealer. They called the area rep and i got an apology. Got my WDH fixed. Got home and darn it, that same rep that gave me a hard time he emailed me probably after being corrected, because i turned over my emails to the Dealer , who turned them over to the WDH rep, still saying, due to my lack of preventative maintenance the warranty is void. Well my hitch is very popular and very quality, so i doubt I will have a warranty issue. Plus as a mechanic i am rather OCD on my preventative maintenance anyway.
Thanks again for your great info.
Many thanks for sharing your experience. I also found a dealer who has fought for me. I have said it before and I really mean it - it is more important to find a good dealer than a good RV. Thanks again and all the best!
People just don't want to buy things that are cheaply made and for those ridiculouse prices. They are finding better ways to get around this.
Agreed. I think we are in the middle of a great un-RVing in America. So many people jumped in b/c of the pandemic and were totally inoculated from it going forward. I suppose I blame the industry for giving in fully to the crazed demand and showing no restraint - really a greed-rules issue. I remember in Dec 2021 when they were bragging about 600k units delivered, I thought what a huge mistake in over saturation and allowing unskilled workers into the production process.
Thanks for the insight John, wonder how many dealers are going to make it through this storm.
We'll have to wait and see. If the dealers haven't already moved to more service, and are relying on sales, I think times will be tough. I personally think smaller fiscally conservative dealers may be okay. The dealer who exercised restraint during the pandemic (knowing good times never last and didn't over order), likely will be okay.
As always my thanks for an informative post. I noticed the quality bereft RV manufacturer was not named. I guess they’ll threaten lawsuit if you do so.
I need to maintain confidentiality for the sake of the owner who is wrestling with the RV manufacturer to get his rig fixed. I have no problem calling out a manufacturer (see my Ember video).
The reason I mentioned the lawsuit John is ‘Liz Amazing’, also on RUclips, who calls out bad quality RV’s has been threatened with lawsuits by some RV manufacturers. Scary situation potentially having to have to fight these people in court. They have mighty deep pockets?
I did see her video about this situation. I have not reviewed other of her videos about RV quality or where she is calling out specific manufacturers. I think acting as journalists those of us who report "RV News" need to be very careful reporting verified facts or people's actual experiences, and if we are doing this, we have to be courageous if large companies threaten us.
Top notch report 👍
Thanks Patrick!
Well done.
Thanks Terry!