I have yet to watch your video, but if you mention this, I will edit my comment and I will say to not mind this comment, but I feel that before I watch this video I have to mention this real quick. There was an initial scrapped draft that made Nick Wyld the protagonist, and focused on Predators having shocker collars because they weren't trusted enough to be able to live in normal society. Nick one day found out that it was possible to take them off for medical situations and, getting an idea in his head, decided to create a "Hospital" that was really a club where the predators could live without shock collars. Disney higher-ups or the CEO at the time walked in on the concept, told them it was too dark, and so the animators toned it way back and changed the entire film.
I actually like the original idea of that movie, but I do agree it was pretty edgy for children. But I think if they had made similar and still more family friendly I think it would’ve been better.
Zootopia isn't about racism, it's about stereotypes. Lions are accepted as the mayor, but foxes are discriminated against, while both are predators. The ox guy is accepted as the head of the police, and the rabbit is discriminated against, while both are prey. It's not about "all predators are evil" and "all prey are helpless." It's about how certain species of each are stereotyped. They don't say "all prey animals can't be cops," they say "all rabbits are dumb and only good for farming and having kids." They didn't say "all predators are feared and dangerous," they said "all foxes are cunning shysters that you can't trust." Real life examples would be saying "all white girls are stupid" (racist), vs "all blond girls are ditzy" (stereotyped).
Exactly, I don't understand why they were comparing it to real people, situations and splitting it. Not only is it a kids movie, but all the stereotypes we're proven wrong in the end. (minus the cops loving donuts, since that bothered them.) Alot of her points we're just nit picking. It was also clearly about the animals, like the main characters are literally fox (the main predator for bunnies) and a bunny (the main prey for a fox.) It's just like Wolf and Deers.
Yeah, and even if the movie would *just* be an allegory for racism, they went in the wrong direction with the prey vs predator thing. Even in their universe, preys did have legitimate reasons not to trust predators (being eaten). That is no longer the case in the movie's time, but it would make sense if little prey animals would feel at least uneasy around a tiger and his sharp teeth and claws. It's the same as to why the racism allegory in Elemental doesn't fly; fire people can indeed pose a real danger to the other peoples, as can the other peoples to the fire people and each other. It would make sense that they decided not to mix (none of the elements do in the movie; Wade and Ember are seemingly the first inter-elemental couple). Zootopia's message about stereotypes and intrinsic bias in itself works fine, but if it's also supposed to carry a racism allegory they did it wrong. In human history, none of the ethnicities have been preying on the other(s) to survive. None of the ethnicities are more dangerous or more prone to violence, not even in the past (as the stories that history tell are often biased and always give an incomplete picture). In Zootopia, prey animals DO have a legitimate reason to fear predators BECAUSE of their biology. Also, I did not understand what the word 'cute' stands for in Zootopia. If Judy is supposed to represent a white person because she's a prey animal, then why does her community basically have its own version of the n-word with the same unwritten rules attached to it?
THANK YOU, THANK YOU SO MUCH. Watching this movie in a class full of black students as a black student was so frustrating cuz I knew what was wrong but couldn't put it into good enough words.
8:43 I like to think of the completely batshit insane Zootopia abortion comic as canon, which answers the question of mammal Jesus! He's a bunny in those comics. Judy's parents are devout Carrotholics. Just a little extra psychic flashbang in case your critical thinking skills survived watching this movie!
3:04 I’ve heard questions like this before and I think it stems from a flawed attitude toward films like this. Zootopia should not be expected to be a one-to-one allegory for racism in America, or in any real-life society. Zootopia is not the same as America, the mammals are not the same as humans, the prey are not the same as white people, etc. A world of talking animals would obviously have their own set of natural divisions and biases that would be different from what humans have. Zootopia is not a commentary on American racial tensions; it’s a story about bigotry in general. Every prejudice and stereotype we see in Zootopia makes sense in-universe. Trying to compare every detail to real-life social issues is missing the point. It doesn’t need to perfectly parallel our world for us to learn from it. But from another angle, do you think that only certain races experience prejudice in real life? EVERYONE IN THE WORLD gets stereotyped by someone, no matter how privileged their position may seem to be. The fact that Clawhauser can be discriminated against because he’s seen as threatening, while Judy can also be discriminated against because she’s seen as weak is not in any way contradictory to real life. Would you not be surprised to see a small, white woman acting as a security guard? And maybe I’m just forgetting something here, but when was it established that predators are historically marginalized? Nick was mistreated because he’s a fox, not because he’s a predator. I don’t recall seeing any anti-predator sentiment until after the villains made everyone think they could go savage any minute. Are we just making assumptions because their treatment in the film makes us think of black Americans?
Ngl I'm starting to really hate these allegories using non-humans as substitutes for very real *human* problems, especially on a societal scale. When considering marginalized groups, I think it has very weird implications.
@@Nyorane I think op was referring to the use of animals as entire groups of people who have been oppressed. Such as using predators (animals who literally need to kill to survive) to represent human minority groups who have murdered and subjugated for simply existing being a slippery slope
@@Nyorane uhm... exactly? people evolved from killing each other for food to unting and trying to create new resorces for food and from clubbing mammoths to meat alternatives like you are literally usnig internet (and instead of getting knowledge only shit yourself with dumb spamming that is "who cares i just want to watch a bunch of colors instead of using my brain")
I actually do quite love Zootopia, if only for Nick and Judy’s dynamic. But yeah, I have to agree, the movie’s racism allegory is disappointingly shallow, but also I feel like it was kinda confusing? Like, at first it seemed like they were making prey the oppressed minority but then turns out it was predators but then they just kept going back and forth? I think they were trying to go for a sexism allegory for Judy but it just doesn’t quite fit into the film I think. Btw “try everything” makes me cringe everytime I hear it I feel your pain XD
That's because you're trying to look at it as a racism allegory, instead of looking at it as it is: predators vs prey. It's much easier to enjoy the movie when you're not searching for the black person
@@yay29823 Exactly...hell it could just as easily be about sexism I mean Judy is the "weak and defenseless" prey while Nick is the "shady and untrustworthy" predator.
I loved the movie on an uncritical watch, but yeah you have valid reasons. The justification of racism in this world is definitely not a good thing for kids to internalize lol.
Honestly when we see the original version of Zootopia with the taming gadgets when Nick was the main character and the Taming Party scène who are honestly one of the best and most sad scene i ever see made by Disney Animation Studio who are unfortunately deleted YEAH that honestly that made the feeling that the final version of Zootopia was suck even more strongger
Only thing that ever bothered me about the film was the Mayor being villainised for hiding the truth from the public when honesty he was 100 percent right to do so he predicted exactly what would happen due to past experience and was swiftly proven right after Judy's press conference.
2:57 wait something i just thought about is what about Reptiles, Amphibians, Birds? Are they not included in this? As far as i know they are never shown in the movie but it wouldn’t make sense for them to just not exist (plus the song that they play over and over mentions birds)
When I first heard what the original story was gonna be about and how they didn't advertise the movie that much feels as though the film makers didn't faith on the movie. I do think the movie is good, I just wished there was more to the story like world building and backstory as opposed to just "Everyone is equal" cliche and your every other animal movie with animal puns as jokes.
personal opinion here, I completely disagree. I feel like a lot of your points are taking context of it that was meant one way and exaggerating it to another. Like in the example Judy being bothered by being called cute, I took that more like how people calling Asian people cute, which can be very weird and uncomfortable but in some cases from close people a compliment. I don't think it was a "slur" exactly. I also feel like saying this was about actual racism and not the concept is farfetched, in the example of the fox repellent it's a play on the fact that foxes are one of the main predators of rabbits, like wolfs to deer and I think a closer thing you can example them to is the way women have things to protect themselves against men, Hidden knifes, tasers, pepper spray, ect. And in real life protection like that can be needed and I personally feel like should be carried by men too, not all men can defend themselves like how not all women can, while some men can and some women can too. Your point later being about how cannibalism and things and how it plays into stereotypes, and it does, then proves them wrong. It points out prey can do it too and that the stereotypes we're false and actually we're all a plot to drive predators out and they got caught. (Small thing on the jumbo pop thing, he could be getting them from other districts and had gotten kicked out of past ones, whether or not their ran by the same company could be debated but point is he could have, plus I don't think there would only be one store that sells cold treats to elephants and taller mammals. also on the topic on the nudity, I think that your idea is that this is based on human races when it's only based on the idea of racism is why your questions go so unanswered. DMV: It's a kids movie, it was a lot of people's favorite moment. If you want to think too far into it, it could be a job that seems to hire more sloths to take longer maybe for business purposes, or you know. Maybe it's mocking that fact being at the DMV takes forever. Fur rug: fur rugs I don't think are legal, or it could be something like human hair wigs considering fur is fur not their skin. Zootopia+: It was a thing to give background characters liveliness and also let people see a bit more into the world and also it's a spin off. Don't judge it when it was probably made for kids and also to keep the franchise alive since part 2 is still in the works.) The racism: It was shown yes, but not encouraged. They actual proved the stereotypes wrong and proved the whole thing was set up, proving that in the future there will be less repellents and less fear towards carnivores, it also proves that foxes (stereotyped as cunning) was also proven to be false considering he became a cop. I feel like it did it's purpose proving the stereotypes not only to be wrong, but also show how it hurt people. Like nick being bothered by her fox repellent. Additionally Nick becoming a cop "proves/proved" that anyone can be anything, no matter the stereotypes people put on you and their doubt you can still do what you dream of, plus people like Gideon gray also prove that the stereotypes were false and he believed them and let them get under his skin, once he realized it all wasn't true and he was making those stereotypes true by just following them he corrected his ways and went to do what he wanted. The example you gave of the line of her saying "Hero cop killed by savage fox" was proving that clearly carnivores are the villains and are savage and it also being ironic she was a bunny and he was a fox, playing into the stereotype of foxes killing rabbits, but then... Proving it wrong. Showing that guess what, the stereotype is wrong. Try and not look so narrowly at this, I feel like your opinions completely filed into the stereotypes and not the way they we're proven wrong. (Also, If you disagree debate in the comments, just be respectful.)
I adore this movie. it's one of my fave movies next to OG lion king and Ratatouille, but I fully respect your opoion about it, you made valid points and it's not just "I hate it just to hate" like others people do. so respect for at least giving reasons.
I'm not the most ardent fan of this movie, it's just quite good, but this video is a narrow-minded bias. To be so outraged that a children's cartoon about STEREOTYPES In GENERAL does not revolve only around racism and reveals this topic in full depth without small jokes and small curious details of the world? Damn. This is a simple, understandable lesson for children that the stereotypes "all blondes / pumped-up guys are stupid", "all guys are dangerous and don't cry / all girls are fragile and defenseless", "all Russians don't smile / all Asians are smart in mathematics" and other similar things are not true and they are very harmful to everyone in society. NOT EVERYTHING REVOLVES ONLY AROUND WHITES AND BLACKS! There are not always only complete victims and complete villains, all people can be destructive to each other and that's what the cartoon is about. I understand that this is your personal opinion, but still. I think it is fundamentally wrong because of the wrong perspective from which you look at the cartoon and the demands of the film to be what it should not be. If Zootopia was only about racism, I wouldn't feel the familiar sexism in it, that resonates with my female experience, and I think other people feel the same way in the context of THEIR personal experience of being the object of certain stereotypes. The film does not delve into one particular topic too seriously and deeply so as not to become a bitter reminder of the harsh reality only for a certain social group. His language is more versatile and softer. And no matter how much you want it, it can't only be gray when it's created to be multicolored.
i would love to see your opinion/s on Beastars! it's often cited as 'a better Zootopia,' a sentiment i agree with. but i would like to see your critiques of it!
To be fair it took years to develop the story, not just a movie thrown out by a company that releases multiple projects a year. Plus beastars is pretty edgy already in a fictional way. Its not contradicting itself like zootopia but its not making a big point with real themes like zootopia was doing, i feel like beastars was always more character focused than it was of being a real world critique
I think we have yet to see a good allegory for racism and other societal issues in animated movies. Zootopia missed and Elemental missed even harder. But if they make another film with an allegory that actually works, I hope it'll be realistic and nuanced and that it shows the complex background of racism (which goes in all directions), different kinds of discrimination, and both sides of the extremes too; from the allegories of the white Americans who think that the Indigenous and African peoples need to make peace with the fact that they got conquered to the black Americans who firmly believe in a one-sided version of human history where white peoples (in general sense, so ALL white peoples of today and of the past) were historically the most violent, the most bloodthirsty, the least intelligent, et cetera because of x or y reasons. Show us the complex machinations of multi-ethnic and multi-cultural societies, show us the foul sides of each of those groups, not just the privileged. Human history and modern human civilisations are VERY complex- too complex to just put "the oppressed" and "the privileged/ oppressor" in a movie, have them be biased against each other and pretend that it's a good allegory for (racial) discrimination.
Ok, I watched the whole video There are A LOT of things to criticize about this movie, and you brought up some of them, so kudos for that The problem I have with your video is that you pivot into arguments that are simply not valid "Ugh, this scene takes so long" So what? "Why only sloths work here?" For a joke "Why are they referencing the godfather?" Because they want to? "Are the shrews supposed to be Italian Americans?" These are "They are not even native to the region" So what?
I’m working on a video ranking every film to win the Best Animated Feature Oscar, and my Zootopia segment mentions parts of what you bring up in this video, though I think I do enjoy the film despite my issues with it. A lot of the allegories and issues in this film don’t work for me. Great video as always!
You have good points, but I disagree with some of it. It might be cuz I'm autistic and don't do well with metaphors, but I don't think it's fair to judge the stuff in zootopia by human standards, cuz they're not humans. I think alot of the stuff you don't like, could very well happen in a animal society. I have other problems my overly logical brain comes up with, like what do predators eat now, despite their digestive system probably being designed to eat meat. Even domestic dogs have the same digestive tract as wild wolves after all this time As a furry, my main question is always "ok but what do they eat, they can't eat each other, but they're based on carnivores". Then I remember how us humans are just a type of animal and we eat other types of less evolved animals. So I usually go with furry characters owning livestock. That, or since they're evolved, they know how to get non-animal protein (similar to me... I'm vegan lol) Side note, I do have friends who are fine making racist jokes about their own race, but if a white person tries to make the same joke they won't allow that. That's just a response to when Judy made the multiplying joke but didn't like being called cute, lol I'm not really a Zootopia fan, never have been, I just casually enjoy it. So I'm not even interested in defending it. I just don't see half of the things you're talking about as a problem. That's just my opinion. I do agree with some of the things you said and I did feel like the racist allegory was pretty shallow even when I first watched it all those years ago, and I have my own set of complaints. But yeah. Still a good video and I liked hearing your perspective
My main problem with this movie, even after realizing it is supposed to represent racism (well, according to many, I still think it's just prejudice in general, not related to real-life prejudices) has always been "what will they eat, since they live in society" So I have to thank you for sharing your thought process on it!
This is also a view and arcvosta's opinion. You have good and valid reasons. Previously I only knew that people, especially concerned parents, boycott Zootobia/Zootropolis because it is a movie that contains racism and discrimination disguised as an allegory and the movie may teach children to be racist if we are not careful.
To sum this up ...the plot lot just isn't realistic enough for you + you didn't like some of the humor that most people did. Usually these hate videos are like I DON'T LIKE THIS MEDIA AND NOBODY ELSE ALLOWED TO EITHER BECAUSE SO AND SO!!!! And while that seems to be the tone of this video it still seems to be more preference based than giving real valid reasons why it's like offensive, even if it feels like that was the intention
The all mammal predator and prey thing was not a good example about racism. It would of been easier to explain racism by having a different class of animal, reptiles would of been better for the example. People think reptiles are disgusting and mammals cute. Reptiles could've been the ones segregated, and mammals have privilege, they could of shown flashbacks of past segregations like voting, separate watering holes, no reptiles or mammals only signs. Scaly could of been a Slur.
Disney-pixar films have always toe-dipped into serious topics just barely enough for critics to screech: "I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY DID THIS IN A KID'S MOVIE! SO BOLD! 10/10 PIXAR KNOCKS IT OUTTA THE PARK AGAIN!" The bar has been set so low for this studio for years.
Thank you. As a black person i always thought this movie was a terrible explanation of racism. And also ...just not a great movie. Im not into the whole 'Black People Are Automatically Opressed' thing but this was still a very messy movie. Not good.
And something that I forgot to add to my original comic, I wonder if she has seen the old version of it how was originally going to be because that is good well from what it looks like
I feel like a better simple racism allegory would be to make them all prey, with animals of similar but different species. Much like Fox and the Hound. They're both canines, with the dog being a domestic version of the relative to the fox. Both canines, both predator. Fox hounds are bred to hunt foxes, but it isn't instinctual like hunting prey, it's a general attitude towards hunting small animals. Both torn apart by societies expectations of them.
i agree with 90% of this video, I actually love you putting into words what ive tought about this movie for ages. The only thing i actually liked WAS the shrews not being from that area of the USA Because...WELL, THEY HAD TO BE IMMIGRANTS FOR THE STORY TO WORK! but That said maybe a BIT more immigrant would have been better...damn even a detail i liked has a caviat
I think in the end, if you wanted a more complex and heavy allegory of racism, you shouldn't expect it from Disney. Disney films have to have a broad family appeal, and something like that would just not appeal to any of their target demographic. If on the other hand, you want a more complex and heavy exploration of a anthropomorphic animal predator/prey society, you can go watch Beastars.
are you really that dumb the fact that childen media has to be even MORE carefully crafted because unnlike adults more wrong things are embedded in their heads if something that is normalised like its even more harmful to have something that is f*cking dangerously shallow and stupid and (with the most dumb allegories) as "for kids" (so its useless to try and fix the problem we have to brainlessly reproduce instead to create more workforce for 1% when we cant even provide mental growth of our children with a 24/7 work)then something accepted as harmful
0:51 film theory has a video about how it is more closely aligned as a reenactment of the crack epidemic started by the CIA than an overall systemic critique and I can’t really see it any other way It was so obvious and yet so … missed the mark on systemic oppression. Like it doesn’t work very well as a movie that talks about racism for kids. But it does work as a movie inspired by irl CIA shenanigans. Idk I enjoyed it but idk if I’d watch it again tbh 😂 it’s not like other Disney movies with high rewatch value unfortunately….
I found your yapping surprisingly pleasant despite having very different feelings about the movie (I like it and think it's creative, enjoyable, and well-paced). It seems like your problems with the movie come from intensely overthinking and reading into it. They have to use vague allegory to keep the film accessible to the young ones and not get fired by the Disney execs. They intentionally didn't want any animal species be a direct metaphor for any specific race, instead their issues were drawn from their animal characteristics and stereotypes (Godfather gag aside). I'm not saying you have to enjoy it, obviously, but that your problems with it seem to revolve around 'trying to squeeze water from a stone'. The movie's reflection of IRL social issues is as deep as it needs to be for the story and as much as it can be for a Disney family movie. This isn't some gritty indie animated film from the 90s with profound subtext... Disney creatives tried to go darker in the 90s with Hunchback, but still had to lighten the story with wise-cracking gargoyles, burping goats, and a MUCH happier ending to keep their jobs and not get sent to hell themselves by their bosses. Anyway, despite my different stance, it's clear you're passionate about this stuff - so I say keep doing what you're doing. Also agreed, the Gideon scene was great; and while I do find a few parts of the movie a touch shallow, the pros vastly outweigh the cons for me.
But that's just the problem isn't it? If your allegory falls apart by simply thinking about it you know what your supposed to do when discussing a topic as serious as systemic prejudice then you don't have a very good allegory
@@prixe12 It's less of an allegory. It's more of a "What kind of prejudices would animals have against each other" It's not supposed to be completely accurate to our world's issues, even if it takes a lot of inspiration from those
I'm from Europe and dont remember racism ever being brought up in the context of this movie. How are different animal species that biologically depend on each other in the food chain and varying human races comparable?
The more "anthro/non-human thing that represents minorities" things I see, the more I believe that there is NO way to actually make any animal/creature/non-human allegory for Actual Real World Minority Issues. If you want to write about racism, just get some poc people to write a story about poc people, because trying to worldbuild an allegory is SO easy to mess up. I have never seen a racism or homophobia or sexism or transphobia or ANY allegory for these actual systemic problems using animals or aliens or elves or whatever the hell that has actually held up for even the MILDEST amount of scrutiny. I just don't think people should do it. Like. Ever. And this is coming from a queer poc who like writing stories with animals and aliens and non-human things! I just think that when people try to draw 1-to-1 allegories with a specific non-human entity being the equivalent of a minority, it NEVER goes well. If you want to make a racism allegory, either REALLY think about what you're doing (and for the love of god have multiple poc people on your goddamn writing staff), or DON'T FUCKING DO THAT.
Exactly! I love writing with non-humans b/c it is the exact opposite of our experiences. As a plus, I've never seen the majority being represented by non-human allegories 💀. I do wish they were made with more input, lol.
Hey I have a better idea, why don’t you just stop holding allegories for systematic problems to a RIDICULOUS amount of accuracy and perfection to real world problems and let writers DO WHAT THEY FUCKING WANT TO. How do you know if it NEVER goes well and people should never ever, ever do it ever, if nobody is even getting the chance to try to make it work. Obviously, no matter what happens with these kind of stories, the allegory is always going to age badly or have a couple inaccuracies and screw ups, but that’s what’s going to happen regardless of what way the story tackles it. It’s fiction, and usually a fantasy world, and at the end of the day it’s just always gonna fail to perfectly live up to real world societal problems, cause entertainment and creativity is always what comes first in these kind of stories.
@@quangamershyguyyz7166 Ok so I will say this: Zootopia was kinda censored, so its original intentions have been muddied for kids. I wish it was on Pixar or smth 🥲
@@quangamershyguyyz7166 I do not know how to explain to you that allegories with animal people can work, but making it so your racial minorities are being discriminated against because they EAT the racial majority is Inherently Flawed and will never work. A story where the racial minorities are profiled against because they're Evil Space Aliens who tried to take over the galexy a century ago or something is rooted in the idea that racial minorities are discriminated against because they are Bad or were Bad Before so there's a reason for the fantasy racism to happen. In a vacuum, I actually think you could make these allegories work, but in the real world, a lot of these allegories end up getting confused or caught on bigoted tropes and end up being well intentioned but still perpetuating harmful messaging. However, I am like 80% sure that you are writing this in bad faith, you did not actually watch the video this comment is attached to because the points you make directly go against and occasionally actively refuted by the video. and therefore, I will not try to explain these things to you.
I mean I agree with you a little bit, the movie is definitely not perfect but it is still pretty good. Lots of the more ‘social justice’ sorta talking points you made were not the best imo, speaking as a gay bi-poc btw.
There's another gaping plot hole - omnivores. Zootopia largely omits their presence, animals such as: bears, mice, rats, squirrels, swine, raccoons, sloths and yes, foxes are all omnivores, yet in this convoluted universe are not factored into this dichotomy of predator or prey. There is also a major lack of primates and marine mammals, remember, not all mammals live exclusively on the land, I can understand not including birds, yet avians outnumber mammals 10 to 1, they are one of the most prolific organisms on the earth. The film also has flawed zoology, the premise of Zootopia is that the city is 90% prey and 10% predator, this is based on the false belief that a habitat is consistently inhabited year-round, wildlife habitats are not static, they shift throughout the year as animals migrate as the environment changes, in fact in zoo captivity, some animals are giving drugs to suppress their migratory behaviours, if Zootopia wanted to biologically accurate, there would be no demographic numbers, as the population would fluctuate between herbivores, omnivores and carnivores, this would be far more nuanced than what Zootopia attempted. Beastars is far better than Zootopia, it doesn't shy away from evolved traits in animals, it also lampshades these traits which Zootopia played for comedy, it would have been better if Zootopia were a dumb action comedy, simple fun for everyone looking to be entertained, it should have been more TaleSpin or Darkwing Duck.
Hi there. You ought to have more subscribers with how good your takes are. I'm a Disney guy myself and saw this film the moment it hit cinemas in 2016. I really do love Zootopia it for what it is with the animation and characters, but I've always felt it was a bit hit-and-miss with the message about racism/stereotyping-I knew it wasnt perfect-be it the fault of the writers or someone trying to tick a particular set of boxes to make it palatable to reach a wider audience. You've laid out the films flaws very eloquently and it really puts my own feelings into words. Well done!
Oh man. This is one of my favorite Disney movies. I'm actually someone who didn't think Moana was that good... It definitely has its moments but yes zootopia is really good 😅 but I accept your opinion
It doesn't suck most people like Zootopia its a good movie. You just didn't get like it because oh you got too deep into it. I personally hate those who dislike movies either most people like or don't like movies I like.
I don't think it's meant to be a direct one to one with reality, but moresoe a "if animals did function in a human-like society, this might be what that world would be like" scenario
I like the movie but you did have some valid points like with Gideon Grey. 15:47 also I feel the same only with Godzilla: Minus One, the fact that it won an academy award disgusts me too.
I thought the multiplying phrase was some situation where a marginalized member of a demographic would use a detail about their own group as a joke like how black people would joke about stereotypes about themselves to laugh at the ridiculousness, but it’s not really one-to-one. Not a fan of how some of the animals in Zootopia are follow the very stereotypes they were often associated with, but I’m just someone who like subverting expectations. Would be nice to see more black creators who noticed the issues with the movie at this depth. I do like this video though. It’s not every day that I watch a video as deep and critical as this.
The original idea for Zootopia is better off fitting for Zootopia 2 because of The Night Howlers Incident because while it was stopped by Nick and Judy and Bellwether was arrested I have a bad feeling something like that isn't going to just go away overnight and something bad will happen like someone in Zootopia unfairly makes a new Shock Collar law because of this incident and Nick and Judy find out about it and they're not happy with it because this new law they're doing in Zootopia isn't fair.
I actually have so much nostalgia with this movie and I was a bit biased. But I actually do agree with your points and I thought that the whole Fox repellent and flower making everyone go savage thing was stupid. It ruined the impact of the movie and I thought it was a shallow portrayal of racism, like I like the film. But it doesn’t deserve to get any Oscar treatment, I think more people should be critical of the film and I love how honest you are. (Like the twist villain thing didn’t matter, though I do think the concept of a twist villain is stupid.)
@@quangamershyguyyz7166 Whatever you say, but it seems like you didn’t watch the video. Plus no story is perfect and we should be able to see what stories did wrong and make even better stories, and if you think it deserves Oscar treatment then I respect your opinions. Just remember that being critical of something doesn’t necessarily mean it’s not a good thing, in fact I love the characters in Zootopia it’s just the portrayal of racism doesn’t sit right with me.
@@TheRationalDremer I did watch the video and while I disagree with a lot of the stuff said in it, you’re correct. No story is perfect and we do need to talk about what they did wrong so they’re improved on and made better. I still think it deserves Oscar treatment. At least a nomination I would say. Though I’m fine with people being critical of it as long as they have good reasons for it.
@@quangamershyguyyz7166 Sorry, I has a tenancy to think that people who say that something deserves all the love and praise, I just think about the fact that we need to criticize it and I’m extremely cynical when I feel someone is praising something to much. Even for things I enjoy very much. (I am so sorry for assuming and I am just so sorry for my cynicism and ignorance.) I also feel extremely guilty when I can’t think of something to critique in things I enjoy. It’s just when I feel that something or someone is only positive reactions it feels fake to me.
@@quangamershyguyyz7166 I also think that the movie’s portrayal of racism didn’t make sense, especially when I was a kid and I agree with what the creator of the video said, though some things I didn’t agree with. Though I don’t mind if people love it. (Also thank you for teaching me about my fast, cynical, ignorant and perfectionistic tendencies and how it can affect the way people perceive me.)
If you can’t see that the allegory of this movie is based on bigotry and bias as a whole, and not specifically about being Black in America, then you’ve completely missed the point. The predators evolving out of their carnivore nature does NOT ruin the message. It makes perfect sense for an animal society to go through that, and it doesn’t make the prey’s fears automatically right. All of the points the story makes about overcoming one’s own judgement still make sense. For the love of god, please take this horrible video down. All you’re doing is spreading misinformation and bullshit. Stop attacking harmless media and LET PEOPLE ENJOY WHAT THEY WANT.
Zootopia is its own universe with its own rules, its own ppl and its own prejudices Not everything has to be a perfect analogy or even an analogy at all.. I agree there's a lot of stupid stuff in this movie but the racism allegory doesn't have to be 1 to 1..
The thing is that people who HAVE suffered prejudice will project into this movie and see themselves in these characters, and they won't see their problems accurately represented. Not that I think this is a fault of the movie, I do agree with you on what you said, but I can't really blame people for disliking the "racism allegory"
@@yay29823 OK but I have a counterthing for you.. this cute thing, doesn't have to be about racism.. Dork, nerd, queer, all of those are also insults that got kinda reclaimed and ppl who claim them usually prefer to keep them safe within their communities.. Black ppl aren't psychologically unique, the way they experience unfairness isn't unique to them.. and even that thing in the tram with the tiger, it could very well not be about negrophobia, for me it feels much closer to Islamophobia after a terrorist attack.. it's much more 1 to 1 and even historically it works better because black ppl have never been real ennemies of the west but muslim have.. The way I see that criticism of Zootopia, is basically some ppl are claiming all the different opressions in Zootopia as being an analogy for one single real world phenomenon and then complein that it doesn't add up.. like, no shit..
I'm glad I'm not the only one who freaking hates this gay furry bait disaster! Literally, this is the worst of the modern Disney movies, even as bad as Wish was. I like more of the modern ones than the old ones (like I don't like movies like Little Mermaid and Snow white) but I REALLY hate Zootopia. I don't like how they brought up the police brutality thing when it was happening irl and I also don't like how they only showed one side of the racism and not Judy's side. Beastars and Ernest & Celestine both did a better job of giving that anit-racism message using animals than Disney! Heck, even Sheep & Wolves did a better job!
I swear the woman that made this is just the antithesis of fun. I have never seen a more depressing, joyless person in my life take a fun, colorful, entertaining movie for kids so seriously and treat it like an actual hate crime against society because they want to seem smart by using big words and complex real world allegories for something this unserious and made for entertainment before anything else. It actually annoys and disgusts me that people are liking this video
The people liking this video are the same type of people as the creator: conceited individuals who think deconstructing family entertainment makes them intellectual and deep thinkers.
@@RandomAussieGuy87I'm a literature student and a pretty bad one at that, but I find her arguments pretty solid, well elaborated and put together. She sounds like my teachers or the better students in my class. One time we talked about the Little Prince book and the 2015 animated movie adaptations which is full of allegories for real life issues just like Zootopia. Intellectuals don't have to stick to brick-sized books, and anyone is allowed to find different meanings and have different interpretations of just about anything. And kids deserve quality content too since they're often way more perceptive than adults give them credit for. Especially kids with different racial backgrounds might find some of the scenes in this movie uncomfortable or down right offensive whether this was the writers' intention or not. If you don't wish to consider Zootopia from a more serious angle and are here just for the fun and bright colors, that's completely fine. But why are you here then? Just go watch some Zootopia RUclips poop, or fan animations or songs or anything else. The internet is your playground, you don't have to hang by the geek kids if you don't want to
@@aceash459 What Shes talking about though is not what the movie is showcasing it is showing racism and proving that the stereotypes are wrong. There are multiple examples of them proving it wrong. Also, this movie is about animals, not humans. It's showing that even as animals if they we're turned Anthro that they would have some forms of racism and showing that it is wrong to stereotype and be racist. No where does it say "White people are the Herbivores, Black people are Carnivores" if that's how you want to see it, you clearly don't see the actual movies purpose.
@@aceash459I don't know about them, but I'm here because every time people talk about Zootopia as a bad movie, I just know it's because of the "racial allegory" and that's a point I can disagree with. Other than that, I don't really have any strong emotions about Zootopia, it's just a fun movie
I also don't like Zootopia probably because I grew up with the Looney Tunes and Pink Panther cartoons and I have a different vision of what animated animals should be like.
If there is one thing I came to realize about this review, it’s that I wasted too much of my time singling out Dawn Bellwether as the primary source over why I despise Zootopia so much, when in reality she should have been the least of my issues with this unworthy film to begin with.
Honestly, I feel kind of offended at your review, I don't know how else to say it. I feel like you miss every point of everything you criticized about my favorite movie. The racism allegory never needed to be in-your-face obvious, but it never was presented as "shallow" either! I think the allegory works perfectly well with the way it was presented, even if it didn't make life altering decisions in people to stop racism. Honestly I hate it when people criticize my favorite movies so negatively, I'm really irritated right now 😡 I know people might comment negatively on my comment but I really don't care
This video is so idiotic. There is absolutely nothing wrong with heroic cops in fiction (especially when you consider the fact most police in real life aren’t raging bigots). If you have that such a deep seated problem with law enforcement, then stop complaining about harmless films like Zootopia and go watch something else. Let others have their fun without you making videos like these to shame others for their interests.
@@jaypee116 Because this movie means a lot to me, and I’m sick and tired of cop haters using their dumb political agendas to unfairly malign something that’s harmless and wonderful. I’m done with all of this shit.
@@jaypee116 They’re NOT “hard to ignore”. I like heroic cop characters and I don’t need any media forcing anymore of guilt trip on me for supporting IRL law enforcement. Zootopia’s is harmless, and there’s nothing wrong with its message. Period.
Also, George Floyd and Zootopia have absolutely NOTHING to do with each other. If you look at Judy Hopps, or for that matter any fictional cop, and automatically see Derek Chauvin, then you seriously need to calm down and get a life. Let people enjoy things. Enough with this guilt trip nonsense.
0:51 film theory has a video about how it is more closely aligned as a reenactment of the crack epidemic started by the CIA than an overall systemic critique and I can’t really see it any other way It was so obvious and yet so … missed the mark on systemic oppression. Like it doesn’t work very well as a movie that talks about racism for kids. But it does work as a movie inspired by irl CIA shenanigans. Idk I enjoyed it but idk if I’d watch it again tbh 😂 it’s not like other Disney movies with high rewatch value unfortunately….
I have yet to watch your video, but if you mention this, I will edit my comment and I will say to not mind this comment, but I feel that before I watch this video I have to mention this real quick.
There was an initial scrapped draft that made Nick Wyld the protagonist, and focused on Predators having shocker collars because they weren't trusted enough to be able to live in normal society. Nick one day found out that it was possible to take them off for medical situations and, getting an idea in his head, decided to create a "Hospital" that was really a club where the predators could live without shock collars.
Disney higher-ups or the CEO at the time walked in on the concept, told them it was too dark, and so the animators toned it way back and changed the entire film.
I actually like the original idea of that movie, but I do agree it was pretty edgy for children. But I think if they had made similar and still more family friendly I think it would’ve been better.
Zootopia isn't about racism, it's about stereotypes. Lions are accepted as the mayor, but foxes are discriminated against, while both are predators. The ox guy is accepted as the head of the police, and the rabbit is discriminated against, while both are prey. It's not about "all predators are evil" and "all prey are helpless." It's about how certain species of each are stereotyped.
They don't say "all prey animals can't be cops," they say "all rabbits are dumb and only good for farming and having kids." They didn't say "all predators are feared and dangerous," they said "all foxes are cunning shysters that you can't trust."
Real life examples would be saying "all white girls are stupid" (racist), vs "all blond girls are ditzy" (stereotyped).
Exactly, I don't understand why they were comparing it to real people, situations and splitting it. Not only is it a kids movie, but all the stereotypes we're proven wrong in the end. (minus the cops loving donuts, since that bothered them.) Alot of her points we're just nit picking. It was also clearly about the animals, like the main characters are literally fox (the main predator for bunnies) and a bunny (the main prey for a fox.) It's just like Wolf and Deers.
Yeah, and even if the movie would *just* be an allegory for racism, they went in the wrong direction with the prey vs predator thing. Even in their universe, preys did have legitimate reasons not to trust predators (being eaten). That is no longer the case in the movie's time, but it would make sense if little prey animals would feel at least uneasy around a tiger and his sharp teeth and claws. It's the same as to why the racism allegory in Elemental doesn't fly; fire people can indeed pose a real danger to the other peoples, as can the other peoples to the fire people and each other. It would make sense that they decided not to mix (none of the elements do in the movie; Wade and Ember are seemingly the first inter-elemental couple). Zootopia's message about stereotypes and intrinsic bias in itself works fine, but if it's also supposed to carry a racism allegory they did it wrong. In human history, none of the ethnicities have been preying on the other(s) to survive. None of the ethnicities are more dangerous or more prone to violence, not even in the past (as the stories that history tell are often biased and always give an incomplete picture). In Zootopia, prey animals DO have a legitimate reason to fear predators BECAUSE of their biology. Also, I did not understand what the word 'cute' stands for in Zootopia. If Judy is supposed to represent a white person because she's a prey animal, then why does her community basically have its own version of the n-word with the same unwritten rules attached to it?
@@LeaveMeAl0neThankY0u copium
to be fair, the oscars dont watch the animated movies.
I still can't believe silent voice lost to boss baby
@@Doodlands yeah. That was absurd
2:06 thinking about Judy being a cop and a rabbit made me think of her being tiny rabbit allegory for misogyny but honestly? Beastars did it better
Beastars is awesome.
To be fair, "Beastars" appeals to an older demographic.
@@ThePrincessCH I meant the execution of it. It doesn’t have to be for specific demographics. Kids media can be deep, nuanced, complex.
THANK YOU, THANK YOU SO MUCH. Watching this movie in a class full of black students as a black student was so frustrating cuz I knew what was wrong but couldn't put it into good enough words.
8:43 I like to think of the completely batshit insane Zootopia abortion comic as canon, which answers the question of mammal Jesus! He's a bunny in those comics. Judy's parents are devout Carrotholics. Just a little extra psychic flashbang in case your critical thinking skills survived watching this movie!
3:04 I’ve heard questions like this before and I think it stems from a flawed attitude toward films like this. Zootopia should not be expected to be a one-to-one allegory for racism in America, or in any real-life society. Zootopia is not the same as America, the mammals are not the same as humans, the prey are not the same as white people, etc. A world of talking animals would obviously have their own set of natural divisions and biases that would be different from what humans have. Zootopia is not a commentary on American racial tensions; it’s a story about bigotry in general. Every prejudice and stereotype we see in Zootopia makes sense in-universe. Trying to compare every detail to real-life social issues is missing the point. It doesn’t need to perfectly parallel our world for us to learn from it.
But from another angle, do you think that only certain races experience prejudice in real life? EVERYONE IN THE WORLD gets stereotyped by someone, no matter how privileged their position may seem to be. The fact that Clawhauser can be discriminated against because he’s seen as threatening, while Judy can also be discriminated against because she’s seen as weak is not in any way contradictory to real life. Would you not be surprised to see a small, white woman acting as a security guard?
And maybe I’m just forgetting something here, but when was it established that predators are historically marginalized? Nick was mistreated because he’s a fox, not because he’s a predator. I don’t recall seeing any anti-predator sentiment until after the villains made everyone think they could go savage any minute. Are we just making assumptions because their treatment in the film makes us think of black Americans?
You said it better than I ever could
Ngl I'm starting to really hate these allegories using non-humans as substitutes for very real *human* problems, especially on a societal scale. When considering marginalized groups, I think it has very weird implications.
Animals have served as allegorical stand-ins for humans and their problems since the dawn of time.
@@Nyorane I think op was referring to the use of animals as entire groups of people who have been oppressed. Such as using predators (animals who literally need to kill to survive) to represent human minority groups who have murdered and subjugated for simply existing being a slippery slope
Yeah, I decided to reword it better lol
@@Nyorane uhm... exactly? people evolved from killing each other for food to unting and trying to create new resorces for food and from clubbing mammoths to meat alternatives like you are literally usnig internet (and instead of getting knowledge only shit yourself with dumb spamming that is "who cares i just want to watch a bunch of colors instead of using my brain")
I actually do quite love Zootopia, if only for Nick and Judy’s dynamic. But yeah, I have to agree, the movie’s racism allegory is disappointingly shallow, but also I feel like it was kinda confusing? Like, at first it seemed like they were making prey the oppressed minority but then turns out it was predators but then they just kept going back and forth? I think they were trying to go for a sexism allegory for Judy but it just doesn’t quite fit into the film I think.
Btw “try everything” makes me cringe everytime I hear it I feel your pain XD
Wel,, piss off.
That's because you're trying to look at it as a racism allegory, instead of looking at it as it is: predators vs prey. It's much easier to enjoy the movie when you're not searching for the black person
@@yay29823 Exactly...hell it could just as easily be about sexism I mean Judy is the "weak and defenseless" prey while Nick is the "shady and untrustworthy" predator.
I loved the movie on an uncritical watch, but yeah you have valid reasons. The justification of racism in this world is definitely not a good thing for kids to internalize lol.
Honestly when we see the original version of Zootopia with the taming gadgets when Nick was the main character and the Taming Party scène who are honestly one of the best and most sad scene i ever see made by Disney Animation Studio who are unfortunately deleted
YEAH that honestly that made the feeling that the final version of Zootopia was suck even more strongger
Well obviously the muzzles in the movie are supposed to be like handcuffs
Only thing that ever bothered me about the film was the Mayor being villainised for hiding the truth from the public when honesty he was 100 percent right to do so he predicted exactly what would happen due to past experience and was swiftly proven right after Judy's press conference.
Im so sorry for enjoying this movie. Ive seen the error of my ways, Im sorry
2:57 wait something i just thought about is what about Reptiles, Amphibians, Birds? Are they not included in this? As far as i know they are never shown in the movie but it wouldn’t make sense for them to just not exist (plus the song that they play over and over mentions birds)
When I first heard what the original story was gonna be about and how they didn't advertise the movie that much feels as though the film makers didn't faith on the movie.
I do think the movie is good, I just wished there was more to the story like world building and backstory as opposed to just "Everyone is equal" cliche and your every other animal movie with animal puns as jokes.
personal opinion here, I completely disagree. I feel like a lot of your points are taking context of it that was meant one way and exaggerating it to another. Like in the example Judy being bothered by being called cute, I took that more like how people calling Asian people cute, which can be very weird and uncomfortable but in some cases from close people a compliment. I don't think it was a "slur" exactly.
I also feel like saying this was about actual racism and not the concept is farfetched, in the example of the fox repellent it's a play on the fact that foxes are one of the main predators of rabbits, like wolfs to deer and I think a closer thing you can example them to is the way women have things to protect themselves against men, Hidden knifes, tasers, pepper spray, ect. And in real life protection like that can be needed and I personally feel like should be carried by men too, not all men can defend themselves like how not all women can, while some men can and some women can too.
Your point later being about how cannibalism and things and how it plays into stereotypes, and it does, then proves them wrong. It points out prey can do it too and that the stereotypes we're false and actually we're all a plot to drive predators out and they got caught.
(Small thing on the jumbo pop thing, he could be getting them from other districts and had gotten kicked out of past ones, whether or not their ran by the same company could be debated but point is he could have, plus I don't think there would only be one store that sells cold treats to elephants and taller mammals. also on the topic on the nudity, I think that your idea is that this is based on human races when it's only based on the idea of racism is why your questions go so unanswered. DMV: It's a kids movie, it was a lot of people's favorite moment. If you want to think too far into it, it could be a job that seems to hire more sloths to take longer maybe for business purposes, or you know. Maybe it's mocking that fact being at the DMV takes forever. Fur rug: fur rugs I don't think are legal, or it could be something like human hair wigs considering fur is fur not their skin. Zootopia+: It was a thing to give background characters liveliness and also let people see a bit more into the world and also it's a spin off. Don't judge it when it was probably made for kids and also to keep the franchise alive since part 2 is still in the works.)
The racism: It was shown yes, but not encouraged. They actual proved the stereotypes wrong and proved the whole thing was set up, proving that in the future there will be less repellents and less fear towards carnivores, it also proves that foxes (stereotyped as cunning) was also proven to be false considering he became a cop. I feel like it did it's purpose proving the stereotypes not only to be wrong, but also show how it hurt people. Like nick being bothered by her fox repellent. Additionally Nick becoming a cop "proves/proved" that anyone can be anything, no matter the stereotypes people put on you and their doubt you can still do what you dream of, plus people like Gideon gray also prove that the stereotypes were false and he believed them and let them get under his skin, once he realized it all wasn't true and he was making those stereotypes true by just following them he corrected his ways and went to do what he wanted. The example you gave of the line of her saying "Hero cop killed by savage fox" was proving that clearly carnivores are the villains and are savage and it also being ironic she was a bunny and he was a fox, playing into the stereotype of foxes killing rabbits, but then... Proving it wrong. Showing that guess what, the stereotype is wrong. Try and not look so narrowly at this, I feel like your opinions completely filed into the stereotypes and not the way they we're proven wrong.
(Also, If you disagree debate in the comments, just be respectful.)
100% agree with you :3
I adore this movie. it's one of my fave movies next to OG lion king and Ratatouille, but I fully respect your opoion about it, you made valid points and it's not just "I hate it just to hate" like others people do. so respect for at least giving reasons.
I like this movie but you have valid points
I'm not the most ardent fan of this movie, it's just quite good, but this video is a narrow-minded bias.
To be so outraged that a children's cartoon about STEREOTYPES In GENERAL does not revolve only around racism and reveals this topic in full depth without small jokes and small curious details of the world? Damn. This is a simple, understandable lesson for children that the stereotypes "all blondes / pumped-up guys are stupid", "all guys are dangerous and don't cry / all girls are fragile and defenseless", "all Russians don't smile / all Asians are smart in mathematics" and other similar things are not true and they are very harmful to everyone in society. NOT EVERYTHING REVOLVES ONLY AROUND WHITES AND BLACKS! There are not always only complete victims and complete villains, all people can be destructive to each other and that's what the cartoon is about.
I understand that this is your personal opinion, but still. I think it is fundamentally wrong because of the wrong perspective from which you look at the cartoon and the demands of the film to be what it should not be. If Zootopia was only about racism, I wouldn't feel the familiar sexism in it, that resonates with my female experience, and I think other people feel the same way in the context of THEIR personal experience of being the object of certain stereotypes. The film does not delve into one particular topic too seriously and deeply so as not to become a bitter reminder of the harsh reality only for a certain social group. His language is more versatile and softer.
And no matter how much you want it, it can't only be gray when it's created to be multicolored.
9:42 I thought the sloth thing was cute but I thought it was cuz it was the DMV
cuz that’s exactly how it feels 😭
i would love to see your opinion/s on Beastars! it's often cited as 'a better Zootopia,' a sentiment i agree with. but i would like to see your critiques of it!
Less worse not better
To be fair it took years to develop the story, not just a movie thrown out by a company that releases multiple projects a year. Plus beastars is pretty edgy already in a fictional way. Its not contradicting itself like zootopia but its not making a big point with real themes like zootopia was doing, i feel like beastars was always more character focused than it was of being a real world critique
Idk I found Beastars to be trying so hard to be edgy that it feels cringey
Beastars focuses more than just racial discrimination so it'd be interesting.
I think we have yet to see a good allegory for racism and other societal issues in animated movies. Zootopia missed and Elemental missed even harder. But if they make another film with an allegory that actually works, I hope it'll be realistic and nuanced and that it shows the complex background of racism (which goes in all directions), different kinds of discrimination, and both sides of the extremes too; from the allegories of the white Americans who think that the Indigenous and African peoples need to make peace with the fact that they got conquered to the black Americans who firmly believe in a one-sided version of human history where white peoples (in general sense, so ALL white peoples of today and of the past) were historically the most violent, the most bloodthirsty, the least intelligent, et cetera because of x or y reasons.
Show us the complex machinations of multi-ethnic and multi-cultural societies, show us the foul sides of each of those groups, not just the privileged. Human history and modern human civilisations are VERY complex- too complex to just put "the oppressed" and "the privileged/ oppressor" in a movie, have them be biased against each other and pretend that it's a good allegory for (racial) discrimination.
Ok, I watched the whole video
There are A LOT of things to criticize about this movie, and you brought up some of them, so kudos for that
The problem I have with your video is that you pivot into arguments that are simply not valid
"Ugh, this scene takes so long"
So what?
"Why only sloths work here?"
For a joke
"Why are they referencing the godfather?"
Because they want to?
"Are the shrews supposed to be Italian Americans?"
These are
"They are not even native to the region"
So what?
While kids do deserve good movies, I feel like sometimes people can get a bit too far, specially when they are being serious
I’m working on a video ranking every film to win the Best Animated Feature Oscar, and my Zootopia segment mentions parts of what you bring up in this video, though I think I do enjoy the film despite my issues with it. A lot of the allegories and issues in this film don’t work for me. Great video as always!
I'll keep my eye out for your ranking video! I'm excited to hear what you think about each film :)
@@JennyCook57 Thank you so much! 🩵
My opinion is that it works pretty well as a buddy cop film but very poorly as a race or gender allegory.
This is why I prefer the original idea, even if it needed work, I still think it had a more interesting take.
You have good points, but I disagree with some of it. It might be cuz I'm autistic and don't do well with metaphors, but I don't think it's fair to judge the stuff in zootopia by human standards, cuz they're not humans. I think alot of the stuff you don't like, could very well happen in a animal society.
I have other problems my overly logical brain comes up with, like what do predators eat now, despite their digestive system probably being designed to eat meat. Even domestic dogs have the same digestive tract as wild wolves after all this time
As a furry, my main question is always "ok but what do they eat, they can't eat each other, but they're based on carnivores". Then I remember how us humans are just a type of animal and we eat other types of less evolved animals. So I usually go with furry characters owning livestock. That, or since they're evolved, they know how to get non-animal protein (similar to me... I'm vegan lol)
Side note, I do have friends who are fine making racist jokes about their own race, but if a white person tries to make the same joke they won't allow that. That's just a response to when Judy made the multiplying joke but didn't like being called cute, lol
I'm not really a Zootopia fan, never have been, I just casually enjoy it. So I'm not even interested in defending it. I just don't see half of the things you're talking about as a problem. That's just my opinion. I do agree with some of the things you said and I did feel like the racist allegory was pretty shallow even when I first watched it all those years ago, and I have my own set of complaints. But yeah.
Still a good video and I liked hearing your perspective
My main problem with this movie, even after realizing it is supposed to represent racism (well, according to many, I still think it's just prejudice in general, not related to real-life prejudices) has always been "what will they eat, since they live in society" So I have to thank you for sharing your thought process on it!
This is also a view and arcvosta's opinion. You have good and valid reasons. Previously I only knew that people, especially concerned parents, boycott Zootobia/Zootropolis because it is a movie that contains racism and discrimination disguised as an allegory and the movie may teach children to be racist if we are not careful.
To sum this up ...the plot lot just isn't realistic enough for you + you didn't like some of the humor that most people did.
Usually these hate videos are like I DON'T LIKE THIS MEDIA AND NOBODY ELSE ALLOWED TO EITHER BECAUSE SO AND SO!!!! And while that seems to be the tone of this video it still seems to be more preference based than giving real valid reasons why it's like offensive, even if it feels like that was the intention
The all mammal predator and prey thing was not a good example about racism. It would of been easier to explain racism by having a different class of animal, reptiles would of been better for the example. People think reptiles are disgusting and mammals cute. Reptiles could've been the ones segregated, and mammals have privilege, they could of shown flashbacks of past segregations like voting, separate watering holes, no reptiles or mammals only signs. Scaly could of been a Slur.
Just put the fries in the bag
Disney-pixar films have always toe-dipped into serious topics just barely enough for critics to screech: "I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY DID THIS IN A KID'S MOVIE! SO BOLD! 10/10 PIXAR KNOCKS IT OUTTA THE PARK AGAIN!"
The bar has been set so low for this studio for years.
Thank you. As a black person i always thought this movie was a terrible explanation of racism. And also ...just not a great movie. Im not into the whole 'Black People Are Automatically Opressed' thing but this was still a very messy movie. Not good.
And something that I forgot to add to my original comic, I wonder if she has seen the old version of it how was originally going to be because that is good well from what it looks like
I feel like a better simple racism allegory would be to make them all prey, with animals of similar but different species.
Much like Fox and the Hound. They're both canines, with the dog being a domestic version of the relative to the fox. Both canines, both predator. Fox hounds are bred to hunt foxes, but it isn't instinctual like hunting prey, it's a general attitude towards hunting small animals. Both torn apart by societies expectations of them.
i agree with 90% of this video, I actually love you putting into words what ive tought about this movie for ages. The only thing i actually liked WAS the shrews not being from that area of the USA Because...WELL, THEY HAD TO BE IMMIGRANTS FOR THE STORY TO WORK! but That said maybe a BIT more immigrant would have been better...damn even a detail i liked has a caviat
I think in the end, if you wanted a more complex and heavy allegory of racism, you shouldn't expect it from Disney. Disney films have to have a broad family appeal, and something like that would just not appeal to any of their target demographic.
If on the other hand, you want a more complex and heavy exploration of a anthropomorphic animal predator/prey society, you can go watch Beastars.
are you really that dumb the fact that childen media has to be even MORE carefully crafted because unnlike adults more wrong things are embedded in their heads if something that is normalised like its even more harmful to have something that is f*cking dangerously shallow and stupid and (with the most dumb allegories) as "for kids" (so its useless to try and fix the problem we have to brainlessly reproduce instead to create more workforce for 1% when we cant even provide mental growth of our children with a 24/7 work)then something accepted as harmful
0:51 film theory has a video about how it is more closely aligned as a reenactment of the crack epidemic started by the CIA than an overall systemic critique and I can’t really see it any other way
It was so obvious and yet so … missed the mark on systemic oppression. Like it doesn’t work very well as a movie that talks about racism for kids. But it does work as a movie inspired by irl CIA shenanigans.
Idk I enjoyed it but idk if I’d watch it again tbh 😂 it’s not like other Disney movies with high rewatch value unfortunately….
I found your yapping surprisingly pleasant despite having very different feelings about the movie (I like it and think it's creative, enjoyable, and well-paced).
It seems like your problems with the movie come from intensely overthinking and reading into it. They have to use vague allegory to keep the film accessible to the young ones and not get fired by the Disney execs. They intentionally didn't want any animal species be a direct metaphor for any specific race, instead their issues were drawn from their animal characteristics and stereotypes (Godfather gag aside).
I'm not saying you have to enjoy it, obviously, but that your problems with it seem to revolve around 'trying to squeeze water from a stone'. The movie's reflection of IRL social issues is as deep as it needs to be for the story and as much as it can be for a Disney family movie. This isn't some gritty indie animated film from the 90s with profound subtext...
Disney creatives tried to go darker in the 90s with Hunchback, but still had to lighten the story with wise-cracking gargoyles, burping goats, and a MUCH happier ending to keep their jobs and not get sent to hell themselves by their bosses.
Anyway, despite my different stance, it's clear you're passionate about this stuff - so I say keep doing what you're doing. Also agreed, the Gideon scene was great; and while I do find a few parts of the movie a touch shallow, the pros vastly outweigh the cons for me.
But that's just the problem isn't it?
If your allegory falls apart by simply thinking about it you know what your supposed to do when discussing a topic as serious as systemic prejudice then you don't have a very good allegory
@@prixe12 It's less of an allegory. It's more of a "What kind of prejudices would animals have against each other" It's not supposed to be completely accurate to our world's issues, even if it takes a lot of inspiration from those
It literally was made just to pander to furries
I'm from Europe and dont remember racism ever being brought up in the context of this movie. How are different animal species that biologically depend on each other in the food chain and varying human races comparable?
7:06 I wanna say something about the play being built on a lie but honestly I might just be mixing it up with Beastars
Judyhoppslover69 is gonna hate this
The more "anthro/non-human thing that represents minorities" things I see, the more I believe that there is NO way to actually make any animal/creature/non-human allegory for Actual Real World Minority Issues. If you want to write about racism, just get some poc people to write a story about poc people, because trying to worldbuild an allegory is SO easy to mess up. I have never seen a racism or homophobia or sexism or transphobia or ANY allegory for these actual systemic problems using animals or aliens or elves or whatever the hell that has actually held up for even the MILDEST amount of scrutiny. I just don't think people should do it. Like. Ever.
And this is coming from a queer poc who like writing stories with animals and aliens and non-human things! I just think that when people try to draw 1-to-1 allegories with a specific non-human entity being the equivalent of a minority, it NEVER goes well. If you want to make a racism allegory, either REALLY think about what you're doing (and for the love of god have multiple poc people on your goddamn writing staff), or DON'T FUCKING DO THAT.
Exactly! I love writing with non-humans b/c it is the exact opposite of our experiences. As a plus, I've never seen the majority being represented by non-human allegories 💀. I do wish they were made with more input, lol.
Hey I have a better idea, why don’t you just stop holding allegories for systematic problems to a RIDICULOUS amount of accuracy and perfection to real world problems and let writers DO WHAT THEY FUCKING WANT TO. How do you know if it NEVER goes well and people should never ever, ever do it ever, if nobody is even getting the chance to try to make it work. Obviously, no matter what happens with these kind of stories, the allegory is always going to age badly or have a couple inaccuracies and screw ups, but that’s what’s going to happen regardless of what way the story tackles it. It’s fiction, and usually a fantasy world, and at the end of the day it’s just always gonna fail to perfectly live up to real world societal problems, cause entertainment and creativity is always what comes first in these kind of stories.
@@quangamershyguyyz7166 Ok so I will say this: Zootopia was kinda censored, so its original intentions have been muddied for kids. I wish it was on Pixar or smth 🥲
@@quangamershyguyyz7166 I do not know how to explain to you that allegories with animal people can work, but making it so your racial minorities are being discriminated against because they EAT the racial majority is Inherently Flawed and will never work. A story where the racial minorities are profiled against because they're Evil Space Aliens who tried to take over the galexy a century ago or something is rooted in the idea that racial minorities are discriminated against because they are Bad or were Bad Before so there's a reason for the fantasy racism to happen. In a vacuum, I actually think you could make these allegories work, but in the real world, a lot of these allegories end up getting confused or caught on bigoted tropes and end up being well intentioned but still perpetuating harmful messaging.
However, I am like 80% sure that you are writing this in bad faith, you did not actually watch the video this comment is attached to because the points you make directly go against and occasionally actively refuted by the video. and therefore, I will not try to explain these things to you.
Idk man Cats Don't Dance was pretty good.
Edit: Who Framed Roger Rabbit and the Sesame Street movie Follow That Bird also kinda count.
I mean I agree with you a little bit, the movie is definitely not perfect but it is still pretty good. Lots of the more ‘social justice’ sorta talking points you made were not the best imo, speaking as a gay bi-poc btw.
In one video you used Inside Job AND Castle! You're a hero to me ❤
I hate this movie, it's possibly THE movie that pisses me off whenever it gets brought up
There's another gaping plot hole - omnivores. Zootopia largely omits their presence, animals such as: bears, mice, rats, squirrels, swine, raccoons, sloths and yes, foxes are all omnivores, yet in this convoluted universe are not factored into this dichotomy of predator or prey. There is also a major lack of primates and marine mammals, remember, not all mammals live exclusively on the land, I can understand not including birds, yet avians outnumber mammals 10 to 1, they are one of the most prolific organisms on the earth. The film also has flawed zoology, the premise of Zootopia is that the city is 90% prey and 10% predator, this is based on the false belief that a habitat is consistently inhabited year-round, wildlife habitats are not static, they shift throughout the year as animals migrate as the environment changes, in fact in zoo captivity, some animals are giving drugs to suppress their migratory behaviours, if Zootopia wanted to biologically accurate, there would be no demographic numbers, as the population would fluctuate between herbivores, omnivores and carnivores, this would be far more nuanced than what Zootopia attempted. Beastars is far better than Zootopia, it doesn't shy away from evolved traits in animals, it also lampshades these traits which Zootopia played for comedy, it would have been better if Zootopia were a dumb action comedy, simple fun for everyone looking to be entertained, it should have been more TaleSpin or Darkwing Duck.
Hi there. You ought to have more subscribers with how good your takes are. I'm a Disney guy myself and saw this film the moment it hit cinemas in 2016. I really do love Zootopia it for what it is with the animation and characters, but I've always felt it was a bit hit-and-miss with the message about racism/stereotyping-I knew it wasnt perfect-be it the fault of the writers or someone trying to tick a particular set of boxes to make it palatable to reach a wider audience. You've laid out the films flaws very eloquently and it really puts my own feelings into words. Well done!
Well, guess you can't please everyone.
Oh man. This is one of my favorite Disney movies. I'm actually someone who didn't think Moana was that good... It definitely has its moments but yes zootopia is really good 😅 but I accept your opinion
It doesn't suck most people like Zootopia its a good movie. You just didn't get like it because oh you got too deep into it. I personally hate those who dislike movies either most people like or don't like movies I like.
My prayers have been answered! Thank you, Lord!
At long last, the "racist animal movie bad" video is here.
I would consider that as fact.
I don't think it's meant to be a direct one to one with reality, but moresoe a "if animals did function in a human-like society, this might be what that world would be like" scenario
I'm pretty sure that's how most kids watching this movie perceived it
@yay29823 same, atleast that was my takeaway as a kid
I like the movie but you did have some valid points like with Gideon Grey. 15:47 also I feel the same only with Godzilla: Minus One, the fact that it won an academy award disgusts me too.
I Do actually like this movie but I find it super overrated
love your videos. thanks for continuing to make them
I thought the multiplying phrase was some situation where a marginalized member of a demographic would use a detail about their own group as a joke like how black people would joke about stereotypes about themselves to laugh at the ridiculousness, but it’s not really one-to-one. Not a fan of how some of the animals in Zootopia are follow the very stereotypes they were often associated with, but I’m just someone who like subverting expectations. Would be nice to see more black creators who noticed the issues with the movie at this depth.
I do like this video though. It’s not every day that I watch a video as deep and critical as this.
The original idea for Zootopia is better off fitting for Zootopia 2 because of The Night Howlers Incident because while it was stopped by Nick and Judy and Bellwether was arrested I have a bad feeling something like that isn't going to just go away overnight and something bad will happen like someone in Zootopia unfairly makes a new Shock Collar law because of this incident and Nick and Judy find out about it and they're not happy with it because this new law they're doing in Zootopia isn't fair.
I actually have so much nostalgia with this movie and I was a bit biased. But I actually do agree with your points and I thought that the whole Fox repellent and flower making everyone go savage thing was stupid. It ruined the impact of the movie and I thought it was a shallow portrayal of racism, like I like the film. But it doesn’t deserve to get any Oscar treatment, I think more people should be critical of the film and I love how honest you are. (Like the twist villain thing didn’t matter, though I do think the concept of a twist villain is stupid.)
This movie deserves the Oscar treatment and all of the love it gets. People shouldn’t criticize it more for silly reasons
@@quangamershyguyyz7166 Whatever you say, but it seems like you didn’t watch the video. Plus no story is perfect and we should be able to see what stories did wrong and make even better stories, and if you think it deserves Oscar treatment then I respect your opinions. Just remember that being critical of something doesn’t necessarily mean it’s not a good thing, in fact I love the characters in Zootopia it’s just the portrayal of racism doesn’t sit right with me.
@@TheRationalDremer I did watch the video and while I disagree with a lot of the stuff said in it, you’re correct. No story is perfect and we do need to talk about what they did wrong so they’re improved on and made better. I still think it deserves Oscar treatment. At least a nomination I would say. Though I’m fine with people being critical of it as long as they have good reasons for it.
@@quangamershyguyyz7166 Sorry, I has a tenancy to think that people who say that something deserves all the love and praise, I just think about the fact that we need to criticize it and I’m extremely cynical when I feel someone is praising something to much. Even for things I enjoy very much. (I am so sorry for assuming and I am just so sorry for my cynicism and ignorance.) I also feel extremely guilty when I can’t think of something to critique in things I enjoy. It’s just when I feel that something or someone is only positive reactions it feels fake to me.
@@quangamershyguyyz7166 I also think that the movie’s portrayal of racism didn’t make sense, especially when I was a kid and I agree with what the creator of the video said, though some things I didn’t agree with. Though I don’t mind if people love it. (Also thank you for teaching me about my fast, cynical, ignorant and perfectionistic tendencies and how it can affect the way people perceive me.)
If you can’t see that the allegory of this movie is based on bigotry and bias as a whole, and not specifically about being Black in America, then you’ve completely missed the point. The predators evolving out of their carnivore nature does NOT ruin the message. It makes perfect sense for an animal society to go through that, and it doesn’t make the prey’s fears automatically right. All of the points the story makes about overcoming one’s own judgement still make sense.
For the love of god, please take this horrible video down. All you’re doing is spreading misinformation and bullshit. Stop attacking harmless media and LET PEOPLE ENJOY WHAT THEY WANT.
I totally agree with you!
Hating any movie to this degree rubs off as unhinged.
12:13 NO WAIT THATS ME TOO. Every time, every Shakira.
The day has come.
Here comes the craze zootopia fans to attack the comments.
That term doesn't exist buddy
@@gaminginvirinch3339 The comments can go either way just like other videos.
Zootopia is its own universe with its own rules, its own ppl and its own prejudices
Not everything has to be a perfect analogy or even an analogy at all..
I agree there's a lot of stupid stuff in this movie but the racism allegory doesn't have to be 1 to 1..
The thing is that people who HAVE suffered prejudice will project into this movie and see themselves in these characters, and they won't see their problems accurately represented. Not that I think this is a fault of the movie, I do agree with you on what you said, but I can't really blame people for disliking the "racism allegory"
@@yay29823 OK but I have a counterthing for you..
this cute thing, doesn't have to be about racism..
Dork, nerd, queer, all of those are also insults that got kinda reclaimed and ppl who claim them usually prefer to keep them safe within their communities..
Black ppl aren't psychologically unique, the way they experience unfairness isn't unique to them..
and even that thing in the tram with the tiger, it could very well not be about negrophobia, for me it feels much closer to Islamophobia after a terrorist attack..
it's much more 1 to 1 and even historically it works better because black ppl have never been real ennemies of the west but muslim have..
The way I see that criticism of Zootopia, is basically some ppl are claiming all the different opressions in Zootopia as being an analogy for one single real world phenomenon and then complein that it doesn't add up..
like, no shit..
I'm glad I'm not the only one who freaking hates this gay furry bait disaster! Literally, this is the worst of the modern Disney movies, even as bad as Wish was. I like more of the modern ones than the old ones (like I don't like movies like Little Mermaid and Snow white) but I REALLY hate Zootopia. I don't like how they brought up the police brutality thing when it was happening irl and I also don't like how they only showed one side of the racism and not Judy's side. Beastars and Ernest & Celestine both did a better job of giving that anit-racism message using animals than Disney! Heck, even Sheep & Wolves did a better job!
Once you blamed yourself for being white and privileged, I had to stop watching. It's just sad how people still believe that lie and bs. 😅
I swear the woman that made this is just the antithesis of fun. I have never seen a more depressing, joyless person in my life take a fun, colorful, entertaining movie for kids so seriously and treat it like an actual hate crime against society because they want to seem smart by using big words and complex real world allegories for something this unserious and made for entertainment before anything else. It actually annoys and disgusts me that people are liking this video
awww, buddy :( if you didn't understand any of the big words, you could have just said that :((
The people liking this video are the same type of people as the creator: conceited individuals who think deconstructing family entertainment makes them intellectual and deep thinkers.
@@RandomAussieGuy87I'm a literature student and a pretty bad one at that, but I find her arguments pretty solid, well elaborated and put together. She sounds like my teachers or the better students in my class.
One time we talked about the Little Prince book and the 2015 animated movie adaptations which is full of allegories for real life issues just like Zootopia. Intellectuals don't have to stick to brick-sized books, and anyone is allowed to find different meanings and have different interpretations of just about anything. And kids deserve quality content too since they're often way more perceptive than adults give them credit for. Especially kids with different racial backgrounds might find some of the scenes in this movie uncomfortable or down right offensive whether this was the writers' intention or not.
If you don't wish to consider Zootopia from a more serious angle and are here just for the fun and bright colors, that's completely fine. But why are you here then? Just go watch some Zootopia RUclips poop, or fan animations or songs or anything else. The internet is your playground, you don't have to hang by the geek kids if you don't want to
@@aceash459 What Shes talking about though is not what the movie is showcasing it is showing racism and proving that the stereotypes are wrong. There are multiple examples of them proving it wrong. Also, this movie is about animals, not humans. It's showing that even as animals if they we're turned Anthro that they would have some forms of racism and showing that it is wrong to stereotype and be racist. No where does it say "White people are the Herbivores, Black people are Carnivores" if that's how you want to see it, you clearly don't see the actual movies purpose.
@@aceash459I don't know about them, but I'm here because every time people talk about Zootopia as a bad movie, I just know it's because of the "racial allegory" and that's a point I can disagree with. Other than that, I don't really have any strong emotions about Zootopia, it's just a fun movie
I can get why people don’t like this for that reason but I know I enjoyed it, but I do understand why people don’t like it and that’s fine
AGREGEOUS FAILURE??? EXCUSE ME???
good video.
I also don't like Zootopia probably because I grew up with the Looney Tunes and Pink Panther cartoons and I have a different vision of what animated animals should be like.
I think elementals did this message better imo
We’re here to support you before the storm! ❤️
If there is one thing I came to realize about this review, it’s that I wasted too much of my time singling out Dawn Bellwether as the primary source over why I despise Zootopia so much, when in reality she should have been the least of my issues with this unworthy film to begin with.
Honestly, I feel kind of offended at your review, I don't know how else to say it. I feel like you miss every point of everything you criticized about my favorite movie. The racism allegory never needed to be in-your-face obvious, but it never was presented as "shallow" either! I think the allegory works perfectly well with the way it was presented, even if it didn't make life altering decisions in people to stop racism. Honestly I hate it when people criticize my favorite movies so negatively, I'm really irritated right now 😡 I know people might comment negatively on my comment but I really don't care
This video is so idiotic. There is absolutely nothing wrong with heroic cops in fiction (especially when you consider the fact most police in real life aren’t raging bigots). If you have that such a deep seated problem with law enforcement, then stop complaining about harmless films like Zootopia and go watch something else. Let others have their fun without you making videos like these to shame others for their interests.
Why are you always triggered about people opinions on zootopia on a serious note. There's no need to be upset.
@@jaypee116 Because this movie means a lot to me, and I’m sick and tired of cop haters using their dumb political agendas to unfairly malign something that’s harmless and wonderful. I’m done with all of this shit.
@@narpanox1ok, what if the sequel address police issues that are hard to ignore?
@@jaypee116 They’re NOT “hard to ignore”. I like heroic cop characters and I don’t need any media forcing anymore of guilt trip on me for supporting IRL law enforcement. Zootopia’s is harmless, and there’s nothing wrong with its message. Period.
Also, George Floyd and Zootopia have absolutely NOTHING to do with each other. If you look at Judy Hopps, or for that matter any fictional cop, and automatically see Derek Chauvin, then you seriously need to calm down and get a life. Let people enjoy things. Enough with this guilt trip nonsense.
This movie did alot for me but it isn’t my fav novie ever, but i love everything else than the story
I never watched this movie before, but with how Hollywood is nowadays, I doubt I'll ever watch any of the 2010's movie. Enough said.
0:51 film theory has a video about how it is more closely aligned as a reenactment of the crack epidemic started by the CIA than an overall systemic critique and I can’t really see it any other way
It was so obvious and yet so … missed the mark on systemic oppression. Like it doesn’t work very well as a movie that talks about racism for kids. But it does work as a movie inspired by irl CIA shenanigans.
Idk I enjoyed it but idk if I’d watch it again tbh 😂 it’s not like other Disney movies with high rewatch value unfortunately….