What's crazy is that "the voice is her mom" idea COULD have worked within the realm of this movie tackling self-love...In the eternal words of Charlotta XCX in 'Apple'-"I've been looking at you so long now I only see me." If they'd tied in more of the idea of Elsa missing her mom...resenting her mom....feeling much of Anything™towards her mom, and that being the driving force behind her character arc of realizing "the voice is my mom, and because I am my mom, the voice is me!" It'd tie into the "YOU are the one you've been waiting for" that her mom ACTUALLY SINGS...Also this is probably me being a hater, but I can't stand the Frozen creative team laughing over the idea of "what, a singing glacier?" AS IF THIS ISN'T A MOVIE WITH A TALKING SNOWMAN, LOL
Funny you say that because the original script of frozen 2 wouldve ended with the voice actually being *elsas* but they changed it because they thought the kiddies wouldn't get it. But elsa spends the whole movie trying to find herself so like... that makes way more sense??? Like why does she care so much if it's her mom? She's an adult she can find herself Edit: I may have made this comment halfway through the video before she shows the behind the scenes showing the voice used to be elsas oops
@@brodstarpadpen6949that’s literally the ending of the third harry potter and kids picked up on that just fine, i wish they stopped underestimating their audience because this would’ve been a much more satisfying conclusion
Ya know, I think companies these days worry WAYY too much about confusing kids. Because here's the thing, as a kid my favorite movie of all time was bolt. I was _obsessed_ with that movie. Watched it over and over!! And yet, I got totally confused about the story lmao. I thought that the dog actually DID have superpowers, not that he was only convinced he did for a TV show. But I loved the movie anyway! And then when I got a bit older and realised what the story _actually_ was, I loved it even more! Point is, kids getting confused over plot points wont mean they dont watch. And if/when they _do_ figure it out, the movie can become even more special to them. It's how we learn the beginings of media literacy! As opposed to bland, uncomplicated nothingness that simply gets consumed and forgotten, with noting to ponder or learn.
I think I thought the same thing when I was younger about Bolt. Loved the movie anyway. Loved Rhino, he was my fav character 😁 and the good thing about complex plots is that the movie can grow with you. I think it’s a good thing.
I didn't know about the shepperd's call and I hate that they called it a "siren song", the idea of a shepperd calling to gather their flock is so beautiful and enchanting, it promises beloging, reconciling with others like you and with the one who cares for you/protects. A siren song is a promise that turns out to be fake, it's meant to lure you into danger. Both are good ideas, but the first one clearly works better for what Frozen II is, I don't think they ever ment to make the Voice malicius, so why would it be a "siren song"?
I mean, technically the knowledge that sirens can impart to a hero are real. They're not untrustworthy visions of the future. The untrustworthy part is the intent, wherein sirens promise answers in order to lure someone to their death. If one can successfully hear a siren's song and not die, they will come away with wisdom. One could argue that Elsa was indeed tempted by the possibility of knowledge that the song promised, and was also killed for it.
@@M.M.Y.B I see your point, and I don't dislike that the narrative plays with the idea of the voice being a "siren song", but I am very taken by the idea of the shepperd's call and I wished that had been somehow woven into the narrative in the similar version of how Elsa calls it a "secret siren" in Into the unknown. I think the fact that they mixed both concepts is another example of how not knowing who the voice was suppose to be hurt this movie.
I think it might just be unconscious Western ideas of things. We might think of "shepards" as scruffy rugged men that herd cattle, so a "shepards call" might invoke the idea of some guy just going "heeere cows!!". Sirens are beautiful, sing beautiful, so it sounds more appealing to call it a "siren call". My guess is the filmmakers probably didn't change the name intentionally. I think in our western brains we have more of a connection to 'siren=beautiful singing that lures people' and 'shepard=man that has livestock' and the change just happened on its own
Well, Elsa talking about it; she sees it as a potential fake lure away from safety; she has everything she needs, but she feels like she still has to follow it, and therefore labels it a sirens call. Something that will drag her into the rocks
@@mariatorres-by6du can I be honest? The voice/song was a bad idea. Why? Context and knowing the culture matters!!! (It’s also why I say Disney did not do its research) It is a well known belief that in Scandanavia if you hear a voice/song calling out to you that has no source, that seems to be coming from nowhere. YOU IGNORE IT!!! Because whatever is making it is bad and wants to do great harm. Had this been in another culture or place where such a thing is a good thing then yes it would work. But because it is in scandanavia and the culture states so. (The same with spirits, spirits over there are very bad, like either curse you or kill you or curse you then kill you…. People actively avoid them hence the whole sami living in a forest full of spirits is a load of baloney as Sami as especially terrified of spirits and actively avoid them to the extreme) Also add the fact that the voice it uses is Elsa’s mother’s voice it adds to the malice and evil intent as in the culture spirits that use the voices of people you love are even more evil and dangerous as they used your love against you to lure you away to a horrible fate.
This is so funny for a personal reason: I used Frozen 2's score for a snow themed DND campaign two years ago because it was so unobtrusive that no one would know (and made a mental note that the shepherd's call was never used.) AND STILL. That questionnaire I only got ONE SONG RIGHT. Also ALSO. I have to know if you enjoy or at least have heard of the big orchestral metal band Nightwish.
@@panickedanddistressed-ge8mv You can't make me hate you, Nightwish. (Tho I'm going to be real, if it ain't Imaginaerum or Nature I have a 50% chance I'll guess wrong by a song intro.)
This movie pisses me off for so many reasons. Here's just one of many of those reasons: It starts with Anna and Elsa's mother singing this wonderful song about the magical river holding the answers about the past - this is the beginning of the movie, the introduction song, telling us something about the world that we should know about. Magical river, cool, got it! The song is repeated a bit later - Elsa is singing it to Anna when they're adults, to comfort her. Okay, so this confirms that they still remember the song, and it's still relevant in their lives, cool, now it almost feels like a set up. And then, they get to the forest, and they're trying to figure out why the water/snow in the forest created the visions of the past. Well, logically, Anna and Elsa should have linked it to their mother's song, right? But no. They have no idea who the girl in the vision is (also seriously? They recognize their father, but not their mother, the person who looks exactly like them?), and then Olaf tells them the pseudoscientific explanation of how all water has memory, something he came up with five minutes ago, and they believe him, and they keep repeating the "water has memory" thing for the rest of the movie as if it was a big plot point, instead of what was set up at the beginning. The filmmakers decided that the siren's voice was going to be the mother, and they didn't even bother to keep her within the narrative! Absolutely baffling!
It's a fascinating example of the roles mothers play in fiction. They're passive, they're bland support. Elsa and Anna's mum is so devoid of purpose in her design she looks unrecognisable as a child to an adult compared to her husband. She's not allowed to be the central figure of their past despite her connection to this new culture, her song, and potentially her voice sheparding them home. No, the one the film centres on is their father, who knew the trolls, who was king, who was son of an evil king, etc.
@@SootieloveWhat makes it even crazier was that the first film did an alright job with the sister role of the story. Sure, Anna gets paired off, but her strongest moments are with Elsa, including the climax. But in the second movie the mom and dad are both kind of… there? The behind the scenes is honestly very telling, as most of them didn’t know who they actually wanted the siren call to be. It does make sense though, as the first movie just fridged them both 15 minutes in. Luckily Encanto came out two years later and had quite a few great moments for parental figures to take active roles.
Don't forget that Anna recognised a man from a painting in THE LIBARY and even said exactly where the painting was (as if the guy shes talking to would know) yet she didn't recognise her own mom despite seemingly being the one of the two who would've spent the MOST time with her
I recommend the Frozen 2 documentary to anyone who wants to know what making a big budget animated film is like. I have no clue how it came out of the studio’s Marketing Machine because it highlights the film’s flaws despite being framed as a celebration of its success. So you’re telling me that the score felt just as safe and unremarkable as the rest of the movie? WHAT A SURPRISE!
It took me SO LONG to get through that documentary. It really felt like a hostage situation, with a rifle trained on everyone at all times. Truly the stuff of nightmares
Honestly that documentary made me less critical of films that have to undergo severe rewrites--and I wish the "Wish" documentary was thorough like this, episodic and broken down over several months before release.
@@OpticalSorcerer Hard "agree" on a Wish documentary. Besides sating my own curiosity, film students would benefit witnessing the pitfalls in production
@@ChristopherBatson "Into the Unknown" really made me appreciate animated films even more by highlighting all the jobs associated with it--and it explained why the film was jumbled.
I checked his yt page a couple of days ago and I found he had a community post from 4 months ago. So apparently he had graduated with a bachelors in musical theory, got married and he and his spouse adopted a cat. He says he has some stuff planned but I think he's still busy getting things in order as ye, no new videos yet (unless theyre pateron exclusive). So ye, dude's alive and well last I checked
Honestly when you were talking about how some people find film score to be just background noise, I immediately thought of how to train your dragon and its immaculate score. That movies score had love and time put into it and you can FEEL it
"Olaf is a Christ figure" gave me fucking flashbacks to my AP Lit in high school where 75% of the class was Christian in some form and no matter what book we were reading, inevitably someone's essay would be how a character was a Christ figure 😂
I recently graduated from a religious college where every class was like that, no matter the subject. I told myself it wouldn't be that hard, despite lacking the knowledge my classmates did since I've always gone to public schools and only went to church with family a few times. It was crazy how my classmates found a way to connect everything to the Bible, meanwhile as someone who isn't really particularly religious I was like -- yea I totally understand lol. I'm surprised I made it out of there with decent grades ngl
to add to your last point: you are not a large corporation. criticisms of disney and their safe approach to art probably dont apply to you! you arent making art to appeal to every single person on the planet, or at least i hope you arent: youre doing it for you. if your art has your heart in it, you should be proud. it doesnt matter if it might align with something seen as generic or boring. if YOU made it with love and care, that love will shine through to those that matter
Real! I always struggled with this being a webcomic creator. But it’s more like an opposite reason, it’s so self indulgent and weird that barely anyone but myself will read it…but that’s okay! Because I enjoy making it a lot. It’s a hobby and it makes me happy :))
@@tycutiovevo I used to be a large fandom artist so making the switch to focus on myself rather than an audience was tough… but it’s so fun! It’s like they say “be your own biggest fan lol”
"Leave out a plate of cookies for Sideways, hallowed be thy name" "I like it when the score goes phgnsm..... bwwwaaaAAAAAAAA" "Oh my god I got an Ao3 comment fuck yeah" I have never related this hard to a youtube video in my LIFE
@@FirstnameLastname-sb3hj no they meant that because the Siren Call is diegetic, they assumed children wouldn't be able to tell apart if it was being sung for the story or if it's just part of the background music. It is a wrong assumption, but that was still one they made (incorrectly).
@straypaper yeah, it's just silly. With such a simple solution, even if it was a problem. You make the diagetic one vocal, the non diagetic instrumental. If you really wanna diffentiate, you can iterate and vary it, shift tempo...
Remember those jokes everyone was making about Avatar (2009)? About how it made a ton of money but had no cultural impact? Literally the only thing I remember about Frozen 2 on a regular basis is that the elemental spirits seemed random and inconsistent. Edit: I wasn’t saying Avatar had no actual cultural impact, I was just saying that it’s weird that Frozen 2 doesn’t even have that reputation. It’s just. Forgettable to the point of not even remarking on forgettability.
Oh well then let me hit you with something familiar and unfamiliar all at once: Kristoff wants to propose to Anna but doesn't know just the right way to do it because he was raised by rock people in a glen. This is ongoing for the whole movie but I'm sequestering it so we can focus. Elsa is being haunted by a lullaby and eventually goes Into The Unknown™ to find out why, finds the elements of water, fire, earth, and her new GF, wind. Don't examine it. Anna follows after with the whole gang in tow. She doesn't have powers and kinda just rolls with it the whole movie. Anna and Elsa find another group of people living cut off from everyone because of Arendelle's Dam. Eventually they end up in the Cave of Frozen memories, find out a bit about their parents, and decide to destroy the dam. Luckily they're able to save Arendelle in the end. There's a wedding, Elsa and her gf stay behind, the end.😊
As a Norwegian person it has been an annoyance from this movie's announcement that they didn't do the Sami people justice. They look different in both ethnicity and how they dress, they're almost a different group entirely, only thing being kept being them taking care of reindeer. I wish they could have showed off a joik or anything like that properly and noticeably in the ost ;-;
I know. Also wish they would show Volvas…. And be honest about spirits. Spirits are evil and not something you want to mess with in Scandinavia. (Also the sami would never live in a forest of spirits, they and a lot of people in scandanavia avoid spirits because they ever trick or curse you or trick and curse you and then kill you….. oh and if you hear a voice call you… IGNORE IT!!! Because whatever it is is not good)
I would’ve never guessed this was based of a real group of people. It’s so vaguely defined, it can be any group……… which defeats the point of saying it’s only one group.
@@madisonmorris7394 yes they're a vague placeholder for just a native people in general, very unspecific and a person would not know they're supposed to be Sami unless told so
I think it's an interesting americanisation where they assume Sami people are like Native Americans/First Nations so either they didn't want to confuse American audiences by making them look Sami or didn't care to do the research
@@Sootielove i think it's a mix of both. I know for the first movie they went to Arendal to see Norwegian culture and that Anna's dress is vaguely based off a traditional bunad, but I don't know if they took any trips for the second movie to get inspiration ;-;
Making Elsa's mother the voice smushes two storylines that don't work together. In one story, Elsa, as the only magic user in her life, feels LONELY and wants CONNECTION to other people LIKE HER. Then it would make sense for the voice to be someone else. But then there should have BEEN someone else! To come all this way hoping for connection and understanding and being told "Nope, you are fine ALL ON YOUR OWN :)" sucks ass, actually. In the other story, Elsa, who is basically a minor goddess and loves her magic, feels PENT UP and wants to EXPLORE HER OWN POWERS. Then it's fine when she arrives at the glacier and it's told "You are CAPABLE and you are ENOUGH, go do your own shit!" But then THE VOICE SHOULD HAVE BEEN HER OWN. PICK ONE OR THE OTHER.
27:07 As someone who is an AVID lover of film score, the only leitmotif I could remember within Frozen 2 was that 4-note siren call. And the fact that it wasn’t integrated into the rest of the score *at all* just baffles me. I feel your pain here, my friend😢 And yes, all glory be to Sideways, the true King of the Leitmotifs🙌
As a recent English Grad and someone who constantly doubts his own work before it’s written, I really appreciate the ending of this video. It sucks how many people act like learning new things after you turn 18 is embarrassing or immature.
Or that if you're not already amazing at age X you should just stop, as if that is gonna make you any better or you couldn't enjoy a hobby without needing to constantly improve
i'm still convinced that they started blasting the avengers theme as loudly and clearly as possible in the later films as a direct response to 'the marvel symphonic universe'. it turns out a large chunk of memorability involves just yelling the same thing repeatedly until it sticks
what's funny is that when that part of this video came up I STILL couldn't remember any avengers movie music. I came up with "I am iron man" while I was trying to remember the actual avengers music
They should’ve done that with me in school 😆 nothing school related ever stuck in my brain- perhaps shouting it in the students’ ears would help it stick 😂
@@FFKonoko yeah I agree. As soon as that part came up it kinda took me out of the whole thing because I couldn’t stop thinking about how many avengers songs I knew perfectly. Iron Man, Iron Man 3, Winter Soldier, Dr. Strange, Thor Ragnarok, Spider-Man, The Avengers, Guardians of the Galaxy, Ant Man. They all have great distinct songs.
It would have been so cool to have the "Siren Call" be reharmonized in different scenes, to evoke different emotions. In the same manner as Toothless' theme gets changed A TON in HtTYD
Your main thesis here is absolutely correct as someone who has listened to the soundtrack a million times I literally could not hum a single theme from it, while I absolutely could from the first film's soundtrack! Right before you started talking about the siren call, I was literally thinking "you know, it's weird that I don't think they ever use the siren call in the soundtrack! why didn't they use the siren call??" and then lo and behold! that section of the video began and you answered my question xD Ah, right, I got sidetracked--I wanted to say that your main thesis is absolutely correct, but the thing I wanted to comment on was your tangent about who the voice is. I've always thought it was strange and lame that the voice was Elsa's mother, it always felt off and Bad. It wasn't until this video that you finally verbalized for me *why* it felt so off. It should have been her own voice!! Thank you for that, it helped me figure out why that moment in the film landed so wrong for me.
The storyboard sequence at @32:02 is a cut version where Elsa basically finds her "spirit" instead of her mom. Basically its a visual metaphor for self-actualization and feeling connected to one's identity/history and just... finally knowing who you are and what your purpose should be. She essentially merges with the avatar state--because it's a special 5th ice elemental spirit that rules over all the others that takes on her form-- and becomes a fully fledged avatar lol. But idk why they cut it. Maybe because if she looked TOO powerful folks would wonder how/why she got trapped? Instead girl gets to let her hair down lol. So many threads/unanswered questions...
I was so deep into the nimona analysis that I forgot this was about frozen 2 😭 I'll check your channel after the video but PLEASE do an analysis of the nimona soundtrack, I love what I've seen so far
Yo it would be so cool if the water had the “eternalism” time idea, bc water is this constant, flowing, cycling material that all life depends on, and I think it would be a really beautiful and mysterious thing if water had this strange connection to the very fabric of time, I mean it literally carves out canyons and is this immense shaper of the land. And then it could be a kinda humorous reference point for why Elsa can create life lol Like they don’t totally get it but they respect it bc ya gotta respect the power of nature and if ye want, even appreciate its beauty
Insert black and white melted Garfield footage here (It was actually a lot less painful than I expected! In my experience, RUclips tends not to catch these things when you keep them under nine seconds, at a low volume, and/or underscore them with commentary. The only part that gave me real trouble was the game section, since the music needed to be center stage.)
As a music composition student WOW I'm absolutely appalled at the experience your class put you through when you shared a piece of music for the first time. That teacher should have been fired or at least reprimanded for laughing at your piece and not chastising in the class for laughing too, any real teacher of the arts should be encouraging to their students rather than dismissive and apathetic 😡 Edit: having just gotten to the end of the video, as someone else in the comments has mentioned, the difference between a piece of generic sounding music that a new composer makes and a piece of generic sounding music that a corporation makes is the intention, level of experience, and resources; a new individual composer putting their heart and soul into something that ends up sounding generic would probably often still be appreciated and respected, whereas a mega conglomerate with all of the resources and talent in the world choosing to produce something generic and meaningless in spite of that IS bad. And besides, I'd say critical videos like this can be very beneficial tools to new composers warning them what NOT to do in the future if their music does sound generic
Honestly i am unfortunately not surprised. I tried an art program because creating is what i love the most. I gave up because a lot of art teachers are elitist and needlessly cruel. For a while i had lost all of my love for drawing, which was a huge deal since drawing is as necessary as breathing for me. I don't know what it is with art schools and being excessively cruel.
Your anecdote about your music composition and your class's reception of it broke my heart into teeny tiny pieces. People can be so quick to tear each other down just for the simple act of trying something different. As a fan of your videos, I always think you're extremely fair when discussing a work and its flaws; you're not perpetuating the snarky dismissiveness of your former classmates and professor, you're providing the nuanced critique which they SHOULD have offered to you all those years ago. Also, thank you for giving a shout-out to the Horton Hears A Who soundtrack. Both the movie and its music are supremely underrated!!
It is really telling how many of the animated Disney movies with the most prominent soundtracks had the same creative leads working on both the songs with lyrics and the background score (see: Alan Menken and Randy Newman). Lion King was a major exception and even that had Hans Zimmer and his team very much involved with arranging Elton John's songs (there's a grazing joke in there somewhere). Christophe Beck straight-up saying that he only included the songs that spoke to him in his score is baffling to me considering he's working on a musical. A musical film score doesn't have to just be reprises of the songs without lyrics, but you'd hope that the Lopezes and Beck would still be in communication so that the final soundtrack as a whole feels cohesive. Instead, Frozen 2 just kind of sounds like it was made by a bunch of separate creative divisions aimlessly tip-toeing around each other rather than collaborating as a united team under a shared goal (and, judging by the docuseries, you could argue the same about the entire production rather than just its music)
I know this was only posted around an hour ago but the quality of writing, editing and production in this video is absolutely top-notch and it inspires me. My wife and I rewatched both F1 and F2 back to back recently and the difference in storytelling quality and musical cohesion stuck out like a sore thumb instantly, I'm glad it's not just us who felt that way
I’m only 9 minutes into the video but this video is SO FASCINATING. I never noticed this before, but damn, I can’t unsee (or unhear it). Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast etc have SO many leitmotifs that aren’t connected to the musical numbers and gives insight into what the characters are thinking even when they aren’t speaking, like when The Beast first sees Belle for example etc. It’s not just about the existence of the motif but how the motif draws out those emotions 😔 Now that you’ve pointed this out about Frozen 2 I am actually mad, what the hell 😭😭😭😭
I think what frustrates me is that they are so avoidant of confusing children, and I understand wanting your message and story to be clear to the audience because it shouldn't be so convoluted that they don't understand. But often I find enjoyment rewatching movies from my childhood and discovering new themes in them that I miss as a kid. It feels like the movie matures with you. And it is experienced from a whole new angle. I suppose the writers who wrote the movies were doing something risky that the kids might not understand, but it just leads to a more memorable piece of media.
A child can watch a movie, not understand any of the themes or messages, and not care because they're entertained by the humor, journey, or the visuals. Growing up to find out a movie is much deeper than you could have ever imagined is extremely rewarding. Those are the movies that stick with you. Kids are stupid, but they're also not. They appreciate far more than people tend to give them credit for. And it's a shame that a lot of movies don't seem to realize that.
The shepard's call is by far the most iconic and beautiful motif in Frozen 2 and it speaks volumes about the film's production in how the story team never figured out what it meant and as a result, the composer could never use it in the score. Frozen 2 really struggled to find it's theme and identity and I do not envy the production being rushed to hell and back by executives
What's funny is that the first movie actually used the cattle calls in its score, such as in the tracks Whiteout, Elsa and Anna, Summit Siege, and Sorcery, so it seems really weird that they didn't use any of it in Frozen 2.
I would love for you to talk more about Nimona's score. I got so into you describing it, that when you begrudgingly and painfully reminded yourself that you were going to talk about Frozen 2, I got sad along with you XD
As a fellow creative trying to poor their soul into a passion project she fears isn’t ever going to be worth something to anyone but myself, your work actually inspires me a lot. I haven’t seen your videos in a while, so I had forgotten how eloquent your scripts were, or your RUclips poop editing style that almost contradicts the honest to god poetry you’d just spoken. Its beautifully human, in all of its inconsistencies
Hot DAMN, this was some of the best analysis I've come across in recent memory. Your critique, your humor, your delivery, your presentation... I'm completely blown away. Some of the most thought-provoking and downright /poetic/ media analysis I've had the fortune to come across. I especially appreciate how you got me hooked in on something seemingly so small. Instant subscription for me.
Outlander has such an incredible soundtrack that it only took the first note at 15:22 for me to instantly recognize the track. It's so memorable I find myself humming it and have even had it playing in the background of a dream once.
your teachers description of your music sounds like something i would like. one of my playlists used to be named “beep boop boppin and beepin”. there’s really no way to judge music to me. your class was rude and didn’t even try to think about how someone else (including you) may like the music. they could’ve done critique well but instead they criticized.
As a soundtrack enjoyer with apparently similar tastes, I am sat and ready to listen (also an enjoyer of the same pet groomer lmao) I recommend the soundtrack for andor, 1917, into the spider verse and across the spider verse, The soundtracks for season 9 and season 5 of Doctor who, chicken run, Gravity, Mad Max Fury road, gladiator, Stardust, Moonrise Kingdom, The Green Knight, The Boy and the Heron, and the very bad last airbender movie has an excellent score. I look forward to perusing your playlist 👍👍
i could write tens of essays on the soundtracks for atsv and itsv, so seconded! for strange/unexpected sounds, i also recommend utopia (2013)'s soundtrack and that of its season 2
@@itsevanffsnever expected to see someone else reference Utopia, but yes the soundtrack has loads of unexpected sounds, and I feel encapsulates the show really well! Have you seen Pyrocynical’s video on Utopia?
13:02 this quote made me immediately think of "test drive" from how to train your dragon. the suddenly change of the score takes me by surprise almost every time i listen to it
man I hate the argument that "oh well music is just sound waves how can we judge them" because it's borderline incel "love is just a chemical reaction" ideology. not only does it devalue any efforts of artists (and probably could be attributed to a gross functionalism/facist root), it's just so dumb. it's like "oh all food tasting good is, it's just chemical reactions in our mouth" like alright then eat this moldy bread. it's just pompous weirdos who can't admit that there is a level of objective quality in every analysis and art, sure if you dilute every possible thing and analyze it from a cold robotic lens, it's just "a picture" or it's just "sound" but that's for dumb people who can't fathom giving credit where credit is due and criticism where criticism is needed. this is written in the wake of an awful discussion with my older brother about how I can't have an opinion on saltburn because I tapped out halfway and heard a synopsis on the rest. god forbid I did not eat the entire moldy sandwich and then get back to you on the fact it was bad.
…because art is incredibly subjective (taste is also incredibly subjective). Humans have literally evolved to find things like mold gross to taste bc eating them is hazardous to our health (and even then, there are certain types of mold that people do eat). There is no objectivity to something like music, drawing, or photography because unlike food, experiencing bad art doesn’t kill you. You can think saltburn is bad but the very fact that other people do enjoy it while you don’t proves your point wrong.
I love movies and film that treat *every* part of the process as it's own art. I think people notice, they don't realize individual things, but the collective whole makes a good piece of media, great. I think that's what's happened with spiderverse, with nimona, hell, even with good omens (even though the third still has *plenty* of faults, it's one that made me fall in love with live-action. i hear the swell of a violin and a chorus from the final ten and i start getting nervous, i hear crowley's theme or aziraphale's theme and i sing along).You can just *feel* every single piece of it, including the music, was treated as it's own art. People can tell, even if it's not specifics.
I'm only about halfway through the video, but this really exemplifies how amazing the HTTYD soundtrack is in comparison to Disney's music for Frozen 2; HTTYD makes music for every scene that not only adds to it, but evokes the emotion you're meant to feel; New Tail gives a sense of wonderment and dedication and determination mixed with the danger of flight, Test Drive gives the excitement of flying and working as a team, the discomfort of figuring it out while eventually trusting one's intuition, giving the blood-pumping climax of that song. See You Tomorrow gives a playful, excited sound that lets you feel the near-mischief and mistakes Hiccup makes along the way, and Toothless's playfulness; the use of leismotif in HTTYD is so stark and beautiful, I regularly find myself returning to that movie. Meanwhile, I couldn't tell you a single thing about Frozen 2. I've watched it, I know I have, but the movie just doesn't stand out in my mind. The closest thing to standing out is Elsa's song about a prophecy or whatever, but even then I don't think about it as something that *defines* the moment for me. It's just there to help, even as a song sung BY Elsa! It goes to show that having a bold soundtrack that not only adds to the scene, but also defines the moment for the emotion it's attempting to evoke, is so important with making the movie memorable.
just gonna mention this after watching the full video, which is that it seems that i've somehow been spoiled by LEGO Ninjago (yes, you heard me right!) for genuinely having interesting and intrusive soundtracks, to the point that I can play any soundtrack from the first season to my brother who used to watch it with me as a kid, and I'd bet he'd be able to (roughly) tell me when it plays in the season. (This is my excuse to ramble about my favorite soundtracks) One of my personal favorite examples (and the easiest to explain) of this is the main characters theme, Lloyd. To sum up his character, he's like eight and the son of the main villain from the pilot episode. He's a brat and stumbles into causing every single main conflict. His theme is mischievous and playful, very bouncy, and you hear it and you're like. "Oh, god. What now?" Then the other main characters, the Ninja, find out about a prophecy of 'the green ninja' who is supposedly the most powerful Ninja out there, and the one destined to defeat Lloyd's father. The green ninja theme is mysterious, it's bittersweet but then becomes hopeful, and is VERY recognizable. Then comes the episode when they find out that Lloyd *is* the green ninja, and when the two themes merge. The once mysterious theme begins to have playful beats in its quieter moments, it's more bittersweet learning that he has to fight his dad, and it no longer sounds as inspirational as it did. But as Lloyd develops into a great warrior, the playful elements fade away. You can literally hear soundtrack to soundtrack as it grows *WITH HIM,* becoming more epic as he gains new powers and discovers new things about them. Every single important battle with Lloyd in it has his theme, and you can hear exactly how much confidence he has going into it, and whether or not he's powerful enough to conquer the villain. Not only that but the ACTUAL main villain, the Overlord (not Lloyd's father) has his own theme, which is very dark and booming with a choir, which *also* builds up throughout the course of the season as he becomes more powerful. And then the final battle (literally called 'the final battle') includes BOTH of their themes, and you can hear both of their themes fighting for the main track as they both fight for victory. If The Overlords winning, you can hear his theme more prominently, while Lloyd's hums in the back, waiting for a chance to strike and overtake. Then, as just a cool little final thing that I like---is that eventually theres a reboot where Lloyd shows up but told from another persons perspective. The soundtrack that plays is not Lloyd's fully developed soundtrack---but the first mysterious one, because this character doesn't know Lloyd's struggles and doubts, has not watched him grow, and therefore the soundtrack doesn't play him as the warrior we know. and then ONE FINAL THING TO SAY ( I SWEAR IM ALMOST DONE) is that later on, in this reboot, the new main character who's struggle is not being able to progress or get any better fights against the villain in what's supposed to be a dramatic last stand, but then he fails in the same way he did in the *first episode.* The soundtrack that plays is a dark version of the main Ninjago Overture, but it never makes it past the first four notes, looping endlessly while the character struggles to fight, and then ends on the wrong note as he fails again, because he's not good enough. All in all to say, i was genuinely shocked watching this video thinking that a *LEGO SHOW's* soundtrack has so much more depth and thought put into it than an actual disney movie. thanks for reading my lego show rant, if anyone got this far.
@sacrificiallamb4568 Nope! Not at all!! The seasons after the redesign (s8-10) do have their own themes that are pretty good, especially Harumi's! I'd say it's definitely worth checking out. But afterwards in the 11min Era, some of the highlights are Akita, Nyad, Unagami, all of master of the mountain, ect. and dragons rising is pretty good too!!
@@violetana6969 Ah, because around then Series 8-9, I remember thinking the musical style of the show had changed in some imperceptible way. (More than usual between series, I meant.) I need to catch up on that show, even though it's technically 3 and a half shows for me.
On the note of sharing something that feels like a part of you: I shared your Lion King 1 and 1/2 video with a coworker when it came out, and about five minutes later I heard him from his cubicle trying to stifle his laughter for the next hour. Much like sharing music you like and hoping that your friends or family also enjoy it because their reactions feel like a reflection on their opinion of your taste, sharing your video and hearing that reaction gave me a ton of joy. Your work has not only been something I’ve greatly appreciated for its own merits but also something which has given more indirect happiness. I’ve had bad art crits before (ironically more often from my parent than from “professional” settings) and it’s very easy to hold on to the frustration or pain that they cause. But it’s also important to remember that a lot of people feel joy from what you’ve shown us, and as a complete stranger who’s just chosen to rant about hyper specific topics on very specific movies you’ve been a positive influence for me and likely countless other people. Try to remember that, and don’t be too hard on yourself.
The end made me tear up. To put you in the picture , I am an art student, everytime I actually try and pour my heart and soul into something it gets heavily criticised. I am used to criticism, however finally opening yourself only to be forced to shut yourself down again is mentally draining. Your silly Frozen video made me think about myself, really. It's funny. I love the way your videos are structured. It's a perfect balance of comedy and seriousness. You've done ton of research and you know what you're talking about. You earned a new follower, can't wait for your next videos! You're great! 💙
Honestly, you've do wonderfully summarized why I... not _hated,_ but why I was utterly disinterested in Frozen 2. It's the only movie I've fallen asleep to I'm the past decade. And I can say that with confidence because I'm not narcoleptic, and love movies as an experience enough that if I'm tired enough that I'm starting to fade in and out of consciousness, I won't put on a movie. I'll just take a nap or go to bed. Frozen 2 put me to sleep in three separate occasions, and I finally gave up trying to watch the movie all the way through and just watched the ending on RUclips. I've been able to sit through other movies with boring stories because the music is good, and I've sat through movies with bad music because the action was good (yes, I'm talking about the MCU). Frozen 2 is a nothing burger. There is nothing for my adhd addled brain to latch onto, so it shuts down.
Now…when I think about the Frozen ll score, the only parts that stick out to me are The Dark Sea and Reindeer Circle. To me, I think The Dark Sea actually does a great job at building up the tension as Elsa is put in further and further danger. It crashes with the waves of the sea, the vocals intensify the dread as the Water Nokk gets closer to drowning Elsa, and the violins seem to build up alongside Elsa as she makes her second attempt to cross the sea. (In honesty, I listen to it quite often!) This is also what makes “Wind” stand out as well: it takes elements from “Dark Sea”, and uses it in an effective way to foreshadow the danger Elsa is going to put herself in. And I agree about the Reindeer Circle: it’s the only time it truly feels like a Frozen film. The vocals are absolutely gorgeous, and made even more beautiful by it being the first time the Northuldra get to see the sky after so many years. ❤️ But otherwise… it’s quite sad how little of the score I can remember compared to the songs. I truly adore when a score ends up enhancing the film watching experience, especially when the film is already so amazing. Just take WALL-E, How To Train Your Dragon, The Prince of Egypt, The Lego Movie, Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs, Tangled, Pirates of The Caribbean, the beginning of The Lego Batman Movie, Soul, Coraline, The Incredibles… you name it! Even Cars 2 has such a banger of a score… and it’s laughable! I’ve heard it said before, but when you have a score that stands out… it feels as if it’s its own character. It subtly takes us along the journey we’re watching unfold.
I cant speak from the perspective of an indigenous people but I can speak from a creative standpoint and Frozen 2 only cares about Arendelle and it SHOWS The northuldra people in F2 are literally so featureless; they all wear the exact same clothes (like identically produced, not just of a same style), those clothes are all GREY and featureless (Elsa's mom's scarf doesn't resemble anything they're wearing!), they almost all have the same face, their homes appear to be identical featureless huts (again, featureless in that they tell us nothing of the people or how they live like how they're built) and the movie neglects to explore anything about how they've been living in that forest (without sunlight?) for years or how they live at all. Literally they don't even cook on screen; it's a failure of world building/character writing. Compare this to the Arendelle citizens or even just the old guards in the forest and you can see what Disney did and did not care about The forest is featureless and empty unless the main characters need something to gawk at (like the reindeer herd or the trolls), the blame is all put on the evil grandad while ignoring the old guardw that supported him and have been antagonizing the northulda for THIRTY YEARS?? and not even a second of consideration was given to asking how those guards couldve survived i nthat forest for that long if they actuvely antagonized the only group ofp eople that know how to live there Its all so shallow and barely justified and its frustrating. There was potential in the ideas, like if Anna and Elsa learned about the Northuldra and their mother and Anna worked to reconcile the old guards and the northuldra while Elsa was learning to reconcile with the spirits then the conclusion where Anna is queen, Elsa is with the spirits and both are the bridge wpuld be much stronger and satisfying
I feel like this video was made for me specifically. That last segment, at this point in time, word for word. This year my perspective on art and myself has tripped over a rock and tumbled down a lush hill like a pinball. I've been stuffed inside a washing machine and stripped of my protective layers, then set in front of a mirror to dry. It's tough, it's nasty, it's scary but I can't say it doesn't feel good to taste a little bit of truth within myself. I appreciate your honesty, your vulnerability, the littlest pieces of yourself you've sewn into your work, it's a great comfort to me, it makes a little less afraid and more excited to try my hand at art again. Thank you, from the bottom of my heart, for your work!
I really dig your metaphor, and having gotten my first few critiques on my fan music I can honestly say I feel somewhat the same way, but ultimately it’s led me to try and improve myself.
I remember the first and, so far, only time I watched Frozen II way back in college and since I was deep in a classic rock phase my first thought was “wow, I didn’t think a Frozen sequel would end on similar emotional beat as The Who’s Tommy.” Now whenever I hear someone bring up Frozen II I just think about Tommy and the image of a shirtless Roger Daltrey scaling a mountain. Also great to find a fellow “Horton Hears A Who” score enjoyer. We are truly a small branch on the vast beautiful tree of autism 😌
i never liked that every frame a painting bit with the people on the street cuz at that point none of the marvel themes had ever been repeated in multiple movies, while the classic themes everyone recognized were all from major series that had had multiple movies with the same theme music. Like sure we all know the star wars theme and harry potter that weve heard thousands of times in a dozen movies, but i bet none of those people could sing the ET theme even though its great. And post Endgame i bet a lot more people could tell you the Avengers theme. So i guess the thing that might have made this score work better and feel more memorable would be work mostly with motifs created in the first movie (and if he was allowed to use the siren call smh).
Yeah, I could personally sing ET, but I maaaaaay be a bit of a Soundtracks Georg in that regard. There are plenty of films with exceptional scores that your average person wouldn't recall right away, and that doesn't necessarily speak to the quality of the music at all. I'm also confused as to why Beck didn't incorporate more of the motifs he'd already built up from the first film. I can't believe I've still never seen Endgame btw!
Given your argument, you may have already seen these videos, but I would definitely agree. Even back then, I could hum the Avengers theme, so I was quite surprised when no one else in the video could. There have been a number of good responses to the Every Frame a Painting video. In the recent past, "Marvel Continuity in the MCU" by never nothing went really in depth on the current Marvel musical continuity. Marvel Music: The Thematic Continuity Issue by Seth S. was a really good look at how the Marvel themes hadn't exactly been repeated up to that point in time. However, it did point out that the Avengers theme had been repeated. Why You (Actually) Don't Remember Marvel Music by JulienCFDurand points out that a theme can be memorable by being repeatable regardless of any real quality.
I took your advice when you said spoilers for Nimona, and watched it with my partner this past weekend. We were both reduced to a single, contiguous sobbing mess by the end. Thanks for giving me the shove.
Btw the correct answer to "sing a song from any marvel movie" is Mysterio's theme from spider-man far from home. It legit goes hard and is really flexible across it's different instances
@ep1c_p3rson50 I'm actually able to hum pretty much every main theme from every Phase 1-3 movie (sans Captain Marvel, which was even more generic than usual for these films), but I was honestly such a huge Marvel nut at the time that I'm pretty sure my ability to do so doesn't count for much 😂
I guessed right on the first two questions. The second one was the theme I was most confident about, because it's tied to the water horse & Elsa's growing self-actualization within the forest, which is really the only motif in the score I actually remember alongside Vuelie (aka the franchise's title theme). The first was because of process of elimination: I know Frozen 2 does not have electronic music like B, nor the Danny Elfman-style twinkling of C, and D was not right because Frozen 2 has only one significant siren theme, and it wants you to know it by heart. Could not for the life of me guess the third. I think it says something that I remember the score of The Owl House, a fairly popular animated series, better than I do the theme of ONE OF THE HIGHEST-GROSSING FILMS OF ALL TIME.
I was thinking about the owl house the whole time. The way it’s a TV SHOW and especially in the last 8 episodes there are soooo many musical moments that just leap out. Especially the part in King’s Tide where the orchestra is building and then the opening theme just SLAMS in and the original closing theme playing near the end of thanks to them
@@benjisaac The final six minutes of King's Tide is some of my favorite soundtrack work in anything. Just the way every single theme builds off the previous, going from anxiety at the climax to dread to sadness, it's absolutely wonderful.
I have never been a musician. I haven’t thought about Frozen 2 in years. This video made me cry. I have so many ideas in my head, so much art I want to make. How do I know it’s good enough? How do you quantify that kind of value? Sharing this part of me makes me so vulnerable. I’m afraid that it will be too muddled and be forgotten. I’m afraid it will reveal too much about me and be remembered. I have been trying to reel it in and make it more safe. I’m afraid of ruining it. But yeah. I think just creating is worth it.
"Who's emailing...? OH MY GOD I GOT AN AO3 COMMENT FUCK YEAH-" This happened to me earlier this weekend too. I felt like a literature god, althrough my writing experience came from roleplaying and fanfiction.
I'm only partway through the video but I want to stop and say how wonderful, specific, and expressive the closed captions are. It's such a breath of fresh air to see a video with that kind of effort put into transcribing the script (expletives, punctuation, and all) *and* capturing the sound effects and intended mood. Props for that, thank you very much!
It kinda disappoints me when media I like has such a meh ost. Orchestra music is so good when done right, but unfortunately it’s used so generically when a sound cue needs to be met, and usually lacks any leitmotif that would bring some spice to it.
12:30 literally breaking my heart 😩 I recited like 4 Marvel scores from memory on the spot-how could not one of these people remember? Not even the iconic Avengers theme? Captain America 1? Iron Man 1? Ant-Man? Spider-Man Homecoming? anyone?
As someone who was (at the time) in school for animation, I remember getting to the big show yourself scene and thinking... "Man, it's so obvious they did this part last." So much of the blocking for that song is no background at all, or just the reflection of previously rendered scenes on a flat surface. Imagine my shock when I found out that this movie was in development for 6 years.
haven't gotten to the Frozen 2 part yet and I'm so nervous lol. while I acknowledge it's a very messy and rushed movie with no clear plots or themes, Elsa has always been a character very dear to my heart and so I loved her story and songs in the second one purely because I got to see more of her. I'm sure your criticisms will be fair and accurate tho ❤️ edit: OH GOOD it's about the SCORE not the musical songs LMAO
In the tragic absense of sideways (hes not dead im just dramatic) it is a tremendous blessing to stuble upon this video, and your channel. Your thought spiral infected me with thinking way more deeply about art than is healthy as this late hour /positive
Finally got around to finishing the video and I really liked how you framed your critique and points- I feel like the closing statement was esp poignant too. I'm doing an semester long passion project assignment and I'm trying out making music on a DAW for the first time (despite being in band for most of my school life). Frozen two is such a sad case study in making a safe, marketable product that doesn't invoke much. It sucks that it bleeds into the soundtrack as well.
I was having such a bad day but then I saw you uploaded! I don't know much about music, but I definitely agree Frozen 2 felt "safe" in every way. I love all the funny clips you edit into your videos and the little pieces of information you give about yourself. I'm sorry you had that experience with the music you made. I gave up art because of my nasty AP Art teacher in high school and something horrible my family said to me. I know how it feels to have something you love and enjoy doing get ruined for you. Anyway, great video as always~
I just wanted to say- thank you. I'm currently making a 7 minute long animated short with classmates. we have like a month to crunch the rest of it. I've been seeing your videos as background voice while i draw and animate stuff, and it ressonates so much with me on a deeper level. seeing someone talk about music and animation in a SO passionate way motivates me. i just wanted to say thank you:') this video has guided my group to make a better, lasting ost along with our short.
Oh god, animation is such a powerful medium, but it's also so time-consuming! The film kids at my school actually set up a cardboard bedroom in one of the computer labs for naps. Music + sound effects really do make an enormous difference; my roommate took the FAV route and he always says good sound design can turn any "bad" animated film into a masterpiece. That said, I hope y'all don't push yourselves too hard! No art, however masterful, is worth your health. Y'all deserve sleep/days off/fun side quests! I know school doesn't tend to leave any room for rest-but I hope you find a way to carve out some "me time" anyway. It's an incredibly difficult and valuable skill, to be able to put your foot down in a collaborative crunch-culture environment and say, "Today I am going to skip class and take a mental health day. If you need to reach me, no you don't." As the saying goes: "If you don't pick a day off, your body will pick one for you." If your film comes out flawed in a way that bugs you, please know people will love it anyway-many because of those flaws, not despite them! Audiences connect with art in such unique, unexpected ways. The details of your art that make you want to tear your hair out will inevitably speak to someone in a way that endears them further to your product. I adore tons of deeply flawed films/shows full of nonsensical story decisions and muddy symbology and awkward animation. I'd be pissed to see any of those stories "fixed!" I wouldn't connect with them the same way at all. I don't want a perfect polished crystal-I want something weird and unique to toss around like a dog with a rubber chicken. Sorry for the mother hen soap box! I just worry about art degree folks, knowing how intense the culture can get. Your short film is going to be amazing!! Wishing you delicious snacks and zero software hiccups!
I’m catching this now, but the Sideways mention at the beginning, and the Tantacrul influence I can just HEAR in this whole video makes me love this whole thing so much AND the Voltron footage???? Man, you got me like butter
Brother in Olaf, this was AHmazing as always! I usually don't write comments (like ever, I try to talk myself out of it like I'm relapsing or something, "Put the letters and wordies down, Karla, they can only bring us shame and the need to buy more dinosaur stickers) but I did want to say something this time. I watch A LOT of video essays on RUclips and truly enjoy a great chunk of them but out of all the creators, I really consider you one of the most creative and original thinkers. You're incredibly perceptive and witty and I rarely ever come across someone who's voice I truly, in my core, feel as "one of a kind". Doesn't matter if we see things differently or if our percepcions align, your interpretation and deep emotional understanding of not only world's subjects but it's own intermingled structure that connects it all always amazes me. Also, I'm an animation student currently and hearing you talk about your own art school experience always brings me an odd sort of comfort. It do be tough (sometimes you love it, sometimes you can feel yourself transforming into a Glen Keane 60fps animation with no duplicated inbetweens wondering if you're really any better than 24fps, you sure are more work but bro, really, but it's too late now, you're being smoothly animated brother, there's nothing you can do about it, hihi). Your way of thinking really makes sense to me, even when our patterns diverge, so I guess, in an odd way, I get that unexplainable feeling of destined okay-ness. It's gonna be okay. This very creative, original and intelligent person is out there making the world better just by sharing their rich view of it and I'm really glad we have that. I made my own "Frozen 2" this year in the shape of a student film that didn't turn out that well, ultimately losing itself in the undecided symbolism. Watching this is special in a way, witnessing effort and skill being put into analyzing a film so regrettably flawed, filled with passion but without direction. Yet still being analyzed with curiosity and respect, with the need to make something out of the gaps of it's flaws, rather than completely indulge in the frustration they cause. I'm gonna stop myself now, everytime I write I just reinvent the Bible, lenghtwise. Please keep on creating in whichever form you find inspirational. Your voice is a creative force of it's own :)
This comment means so much to me; thank you for watching and commenting! Even if you don't think your film turned out that well, it's like you said-that art is still packed full of meaning, and it will still connect with its viewers in unique, wonderful, and unexpected ways. It takes so much bravery to put out that kind of project, and I really do hope you're proud of what you created (and shared!). It's so hard to nail down all these complex symbols with a deadline over your head. I hope you do receive many more delightful, glossy, water bottle-tough dinosaur stickers. I am passing one to you through the computer in solidarity! 💓🦖
@@The_Sin_Squad Thank you soooo much, I don't think my silly little words can explain how meaningful this comment is :'3. I'll save it physically inside my cluttered and delighted phone and metaphorically inside my even more cluttered and delighted heart. Please keep on challenging, uncovering and changing the world with your unique creative energy. To you I send a brachiosaurus/brontosaurus/diplodocus/apatosaurus/it's hard to tell sticker 🦕💛 Thank you very very much :')
AMAZING as always!! So many moments that had me pausing the video and cackling (this is normal for your vids) I've been replaying both Psychonauts 1 and 2 and hiGHLY recommend the OST from both. Peter McConnell is just an absolute wizard. Some of my favorites are Duel With The Critic, (I'm a SUCKER for big ol drums) The Wild Bull Run, and Loboto's Labrynith. 💖
I remember having this same problem with Incredibles 2. I could probably hum any theme from the first movie if you told me the scene it was found in, but I came out of the second with nothing. Couldn’t remember a single theme.
23:46 when i say sonic unleashed has a great ost, this is exactly what i'm talking about. no i'm not talking about the day stage themes or endless possibility, i'm talking about the song that plays when you do so bad that the game starts laughing at you
I hesitated to watch this video for a bit longer than I normally would cos your channel is 'The Sin Squad' and CinemaSins has scarred me lol. But you presented an engaging and balanced review of the music and the creative decisions that went into the film (and how it's always the mouse's fucking fault in the end). More importantly, your critiques obviously come from a love of music and art, and also an understanding of how to actually give a crit for improvement (and not how your peers and lecturer reacted to your music) This video also has a nice balance between video essay/analysis vibes and friend ranting. Since I watch a lot of both types of videos (and also have friends (and myself) who will talk casually but also throw in technical terms or analytical language cos it's how we talk), this is very pleasant for me hahah Edit: HOly fuck I was just scrolling through your videos and apparently I watched your voltron vids??????? Like, when they first came out???? And also ur She-Ra video??? And I literally just watched your Onceler video??? You've been in my brain like a little worm and I didn't even know it. Sorry, that was a little more chaotic than I expected
...every analysis for frozen 2 is just a reminder that these folks either didn't know what the hell to for it, or were restricted every time they had an idea.
the quiz part was pretty difficult, but i wasnt expecting the pieces to actually be so vague that they more remind me of those copyright free soundbytes in a video editing software
I can’t believe I’m this late to this video because it might be my new favorite critique video…ever??? Not only do you compare and contrast the scores that are the focus of your critique but you also delve deeper into what it actually means to be a critic and have your own tastes. And as an amazing bonus the humor is SO GOOD. I had to pause and rewind the video multiple times because a joke hit me completely off guard just so i could laugh all over again. SO happy I can add another great subscription to my list!
Sooo many bad children’s movies can be explained by the producers lack of trust in children’s intelligence… oh my god. Hear me out: When I was 6 I didn’t understand what Simba and Rafiki were talking abt I just thought it was funny to see the crazy monkey wacking simba while they were having a conversation. Rewatching as a teenager I was floored abt the “running away from his past” metaphor. But some kids probably understood it the first time and it was worth it for them. There were lots of deep subjects I COULD understand as well. It’s always worth to have your story be about something more.
What's crazy is that "the voice is her mom" idea COULD have worked within the realm of this movie tackling self-love...In the eternal words of Charlotta XCX in 'Apple'-"I've been looking at you so long now I only see me." If they'd tied in more of the idea of Elsa missing her mom...resenting her mom....feeling much of Anything™towards her mom, and that being the driving force behind her character arc of realizing "the voice is my mom, and because I am my mom, the voice is me!" It'd tie into the "YOU are the one you've been waiting for" that her mom ACTUALLY SINGS...Also this is probably me being a hater, but I can't stand the Frozen creative team laughing over the idea of "what, a singing glacier?" AS IF THIS ISN'T A MOVIE WITH A TALKING SNOWMAN, LOL
it makes sense when you know it was a completely last second decision that was thrown out as a 'what if' less than a year from release
@@audrei679 Does that make it "make sense" or just excuse a bunch of overpaid non-creatives not bothering to give a fuck?
Funny you say that because the original script of frozen 2 wouldve ended with the voice actually being *elsas* but they changed it because they thought the kiddies wouldn't get it. But elsa spends the whole movie trying to find herself so like... that makes way more sense??? Like why does she care so much if it's her mom? She's an adult she can find herself
Edit: I may have made this comment halfway through the video before she shows the behind the scenes showing the voice used to be elsas oops
@@brodstarpadpen6949that’s literally the ending of the third harry potter and kids picked up on that just fine, i wish they stopped underestimating their audience because this would’ve been a much more satisfying conclusion
its funny they laugh abt it’s a singing glacier when they feel is important to explain water has memory and that water holds all these memories 😭
Ya know, I think companies these days worry WAYY too much about confusing kids. Because here's the thing, as a kid my favorite movie of all time was bolt. I was _obsessed_ with that movie. Watched it over and over!! And yet, I got totally confused about the story lmao. I thought that the dog actually DID have superpowers, not that he was only convinced he did for a TV show. But I loved the movie anyway! And then when I got a bit older and realised what the story _actually_ was, I loved it even more!
Point is, kids getting confused over plot points wont mean they dont watch. And if/when they _do_ figure it out, the movie can become even more special to them. It's how we learn the beginings of media literacy! As opposed to bland, uncomplicated nothingness that simply gets consumed and forgotten, with noting to ponder or learn.
I think I thought the same thing when I was younger about Bolt. Loved the movie anyway. Loved Rhino, he was my fav character 😁 and the good thing about complex plots is that the movie can grow with you. I think it’s a good thing.
Now I wanna rewatch it thanks 😄
@@DoofenSpyroDragon16 haha, no worries! Hope you enjoy! 😂
Reminds me on how I somehow missed a big plot point in Ponyo when I was younger I movie I loved and still love to this day.
My absolute favorite movies from my childhood were the ones that felt so much bigger than I could understand.
I didn't know about the shepperd's call and I hate that they called it a "siren song", the idea of a shepperd calling to gather their flock is so beautiful and enchanting, it promises beloging, reconciling with others like you and with the one who cares for you/protects. A siren song is a promise that turns out to be fake, it's meant to lure you into danger. Both are good ideas, but the first one clearly works better for what Frozen II is, I don't think they ever ment to make the Voice malicius, so why would it be a "siren song"?
I mean, technically the knowledge that sirens can impart to a hero are real. They're not untrustworthy visions of the future. The untrustworthy part is the intent, wherein sirens promise answers in order to lure someone to their death. If one can successfully hear a siren's song and not die, they will come away with wisdom. One could argue that Elsa was indeed tempted by the possibility of knowledge that the song promised, and was also killed for it.
@@M.M.Y.B I see your point, and I don't dislike that the narrative plays with the idea of the voice being a "siren song", but I am very taken by the idea of the shepperd's call and I wished that had been somehow woven into the narrative in the similar version of how Elsa calls it a "secret siren" in Into the unknown.
I think the fact that they mixed both concepts is another example of how not knowing who the voice was suppose to be hurt this movie.
I think it might just be unconscious Western ideas of things. We might think of "shepards" as scruffy rugged men that herd cattle, so a "shepards call" might invoke the idea of some guy just going "heeere cows!!". Sirens are beautiful, sing beautiful, so it sounds more appealing to call it a "siren call". My guess is the filmmakers probably didn't change the name intentionally. I think in our western brains we have more of a connection to 'siren=beautiful singing that lures people' and 'shepard=man that has livestock' and the change just happened on its own
Well, Elsa talking about it; she sees it as a potential fake lure away from safety; she has everything she needs, but she feels like she still has to follow it, and therefore labels it a sirens call. Something that will drag her into the rocks
@@mariatorres-by6du can I be honest? The voice/song was a bad idea.
Why? Context and knowing the culture matters!!! (It’s also why I say Disney did not do its research)
It is a well known belief that in Scandanavia if you hear a voice/song calling out to you that has no source, that seems to be coming from nowhere. YOU IGNORE IT!!!
Because whatever is making it is bad and wants to do great harm.
Had this been in another culture or place where such a thing is a good thing then yes it would work.
But because it is in scandanavia and the culture states so. (The same with spirits, spirits over there are very bad, like either curse you or kill you or curse you then kill you…. People actively avoid them hence the whole sami living in a forest full of spirits is a load of baloney as Sami as especially terrified of spirits and actively avoid them to the extreme)
Also add the fact that the voice it uses is Elsa’s mother’s voice it adds to the malice and evil intent as in the culture spirits that use the voices of people you love are even more evil and dangerous as they used your love against you to lure you away to a horrible fate.
This is so funny for a personal reason: I used Frozen 2's score for a snow themed DND campaign two years ago because it was so unobtrusive that no one would know (and made a mental note that the shepherd's call was never used.) AND STILL. That questionnaire I only got ONE SONG RIGHT. Also ALSO. I have to know if you enjoy or at least have heard of the big orchestral metal band Nightwish.
That's hilarious
I have. I've heard of Nightwish
welp, now i know what to listen to during my frosthaven campaign
GWKGWLSWFOXQ i literally thought "i'm so bad at telling which songs are from frozen 2, they might as well be nightwish intros"
@@panickedanddistressed-ge8mv You can't make me hate you, Nightwish. (Tho I'm going to be real, if it ain't Imaginaerum or Nature I have a 50% chance I'll guess wrong by a song intro.)
This movie pisses me off for so many reasons. Here's just one of many of those reasons: It starts with Anna and Elsa's mother singing this wonderful song about the magical river holding the answers about the past - this is the beginning of the movie, the introduction song, telling us something about the world that we should know about. Magical river, cool, got it! The song is repeated a bit later - Elsa is singing it to Anna when they're adults, to comfort her. Okay, so this confirms that they still remember the song, and it's still relevant in their lives, cool, now it almost feels like a set up. And then, they get to the forest, and they're trying to figure out why the water/snow in the forest created the visions of the past. Well, logically, Anna and Elsa should have linked it to their mother's song, right? But no. They have no idea who the girl in the vision is (also seriously? They recognize their father, but not their mother, the person who looks exactly like them?), and then Olaf tells them the pseudoscientific explanation of how all water has memory, something he came up with five minutes ago, and they believe him, and they keep repeating the "water has memory" thing for the rest of the movie as if it was a big plot point, instead of what was set up at the beginning. The filmmakers decided that the siren's voice was going to be the mother, and they didn't even bother to keep her within the narrative! Absolutely baffling!
It's a fascinating example of the roles mothers play in fiction. They're passive, they're bland support. Elsa and Anna's mum is so devoid of purpose in her design she looks unrecognisable as a child to an adult compared to her husband. She's not allowed to be the central figure of their past despite her connection to this new culture, her song, and potentially her voice sheparding them home. No, the one the film centres on is their father, who knew the trolls, who was king, who was son of an evil king, etc.
@@SootieloveWhat makes it even crazier was that the first film did an alright job with the sister role of the story. Sure, Anna gets paired off, but her strongest moments are with Elsa, including the climax. But in the second movie the mom and dad are both kind of… there? The behind the scenes is honestly very telling, as most of them didn’t know who they actually wanted the siren call to be. It does make sense though, as the first movie just fridged them both 15 minutes in.
Luckily Encanto came out two years later and had quite a few great moments for parental figures to take active roles.
Don't forget that Anna recognised a man from a painting in THE LIBARY and even said exactly where the painting was (as if the guy shes talking to would know) yet she didn't recognise her own mom despite seemingly being the one of the two who would've spent the MOST time with her
I took it as the river has the answers *because* water has memory
@@deedeemark267 See, that makes more sense, because she did spend years looking at those paintings daily, according to the first movie's song.
I recommend the Frozen 2 documentary to anyone who wants to know what making a big budget animated film is like. I have no clue how it came out of the studio’s Marketing Machine because it highlights the film’s flaws despite being framed as a celebration of its success. So you’re telling me that the score felt just as safe and unremarkable as the rest of the movie? WHAT A SURPRISE!
It took me SO LONG to get through that documentary. It really felt like a hostage situation, with a rifle trained on everyone at all times. Truly the stuff of nightmares
Honestly that documentary made me less critical of films that have to undergo severe rewrites--and I wish the "Wish" documentary was thorough like this, episodic and broken down over several months before release.
@@OpticalSorcerer Hard "agree" on a Wish documentary. Besides sating my own curiosity, film students would benefit witnessing the pitfalls in production
Is it on Disney +? What’s its title?
@@ChristopherBatson "Into the Unknown" really made me appreciate animated films even more by highlighting all the jobs associated with it--and it explained why the film was jumbled.
I was able to pick out which songs were from frozen during your quiz, not because I recognized Frozen, but because I recognized the other films
Sharknado musically overshadowing Frozen II sure wasn't on my bingo card.
I don’t think I got ANY of em right and that’s sad 😆
I was so excited to recognize “fog world” from migration, I loved that score!
I did not recognise any of the music and was still able to figure it out ... I am not sure how yet
@@anjiwhatever5644 luck
“Sideways: Hallowed be thy name” man do I miss that guy
Isnt he just on hiatus? He's.... not dead is he?
we all miss him
may the God of musical analysis return one day and bless us once more
@ajomagurd I don't think he's dead-
pretty sure he just got fed up by people continuously stealing his content
I really love how we treat him like the fae king of musicals, as we should
I checked his yt page a couple of days ago and I found he had a community post from 4 months ago. So apparently he had graduated with a bachelors in musical theory, got married and he and his spouse adopted a cat. He says he has some stuff planned but I think he's still busy getting things in order as ye, no new videos yet (unless theyre pateron exclusive).
So ye, dude's alive and well last I checked
Honestly when you were talking about how some people find film score to be just background noise, I immediately thought of how to train your dragon and its immaculate score. That movies score had love and time put into it and you can FEEL it
@@charliemandarin4052 All of the three did. They're probably the only film soundtracks I listen to on a regular basis, alongside Kung Fu Panda 2.
Its so distinct that I recognize that a score is from httyd within seconds
I love HTTYD!!! ❤️❤️❤️
If I may also add, the Peter Pan 2003 movie’s score is enchanting❤
And LOTR, natch.
"Olaf is a Christ figure" gave me fucking flashbacks to my AP Lit in high school where 75% of the class was Christian in some form and no matter what book we were reading, inevitably someone's essay would be how a character was a Christ figure 😂
Yeahhhh How to Train Your Dragon has a really fantastic soundtrack
"I know what we have to do"
"Fuck up the movie"
"Oh"
"Oh"
😅
I recently graduated from a religious college where every class was like that, no matter the subject. I told myself it wouldn't be that hard, despite lacking the knowledge my classmates did since I've always gone to public schools and only went to church with family a few times. It was crazy how my classmates found a way to connect everything to the Bible, meanwhile as someone who isn't really particularly religious I was like -- yea I totally understand lol. I'm surprised I made it out of there with decent grades ngl
As a Christian (albeit from a more laid back church but still) I wouldn’t be able to stand being surrounded by a whole class like that
I'm going through this RN in my college class. Every book is somehow about faith and/or god.
to add to your last point: you are not a large corporation. criticisms of disney and their safe approach to art probably dont apply to you! you arent making art to appeal to every single person on the planet, or at least i hope you arent: youre doing it for you. if your art has your heart in it, you should be proud. it doesnt matter if it might align with something seen as generic or boring. if YOU made it with love and care, that love will shine through to those that matter
Real! I always struggled with this being a webcomic creator. But it’s more like an opposite reason, it’s so self indulgent and weird that barely anyone but myself will read it…but that’s okay! Because I enjoy making it a lot. It’s a hobby and it makes me happy :))
@@illumanarti yes! please for the love of god be so self indulgent with your work, it is honestly the best seeing people have fun with their work!!!
@@tycutiovevo I used to be a large fandom artist so making the switch to focus on myself rather than an audience was tough… but it’s so fun! It’s like they say “be your own biggest fan lol”
Yeah plus Disney doesn’t give a shit about criticism, even if they do have a point
As someone who struggles to write because school beat the fun out of it for me, this was nice to read.
"Leave out a plate of cookies for Sideways, hallowed be thy name"
"I like it when the score goes phgnsm..... bwwwaaaAAAAAAAA"
"Oh my god I got an Ao3 comment fuck yeah"
I have never related this hard to a youtube video in my LIFE
I miss Sideways. I wish we didn't live in the darker timeline.
now that i have seen this comment I don't have to comment something completely identical because those three moments got me too
“We don’t want (the siren call) to be a major part of the story AND part of the score, it muddies the waters”
bashes head on desk
oh my fucking god! score IS story! the point is that score underlines the events of the story beat for beat using music!
@@FirstnameLastname-sb3hj no they meant that because the Siren Call is diegetic, they assumed children wouldn't be able to tell apart if it was being sung for the story or if it's just part of the background music. It is a wrong assumption, but that was still one they made (incorrectly).
@straypaper yeah, it's just silly. With such a simple solution, even if it was a problem. You make the diagetic one vocal, the non diagetic instrumental. If you really wanna diffentiate, you can iterate and vary it, shift tempo...
@@FFKonoko exactly what i was thinking
Remember those jokes everyone was making about Avatar (2009)? About how it made a ton of money but had no cultural impact? Literally the only thing I remember about Frozen 2 on a regular basis is that the elemental spirits seemed random and inconsistent.
Edit: I wasn’t saying Avatar had no actual cultural impact, I was just saying that it’s weird that Frozen 2 doesn’t even have that reputation. It’s just. Forgettable to the point of not even remarking on forgettability.
Oh well then let me hit you with something familiar and unfamiliar all at once:
Kristoff wants to propose to Anna but doesn't know just the right way to do it because he was raised by rock people in a glen. This is ongoing for the whole movie but I'm sequestering it so we can focus.
Elsa is being haunted by a lullaby and eventually goes Into The Unknown™ to find out why, finds the elements of water, fire, earth, and her new GF, wind. Don't examine it.
Anna follows after with the whole gang in tow. She doesn't have powers and kinda just rolls with it the whole movie.
Anna and Elsa find another group of people living cut off from everyone because of Arendelle's Dam. Eventually they end up in the Cave of Frozen memories, find out a bit about their parents, and decide to destroy the dam. Luckily they're able to save Arendelle in the end. There's a wedding, Elsa and her gf stay behind, the end.😊
I remember every song, & I’m really not ready to hear this video explain that those songs are bad. Especially lost in the woods 😭
Lost In The Woods is pretty good
i love the horse
I mostly love the songs, I'm here just for refreshing😂@@sketchycat6223
As a Norwegian person it has been an annoyance from this movie's announcement that they didn't do the Sami people justice. They look different in both ethnicity and how they dress, they're almost a different group entirely, only thing being kept being them taking care of reindeer. I wish they could have showed off a joik or anything like that properly and noticeably in the ost ;-;
I know. Also wish they would show Volvas…. And be honest about spirits. Spirits are evil and not something you want to mess with in Scandinavia. (Also the sami would never live in a forest of spirits, they and a lot of people in scandanavia avoid spirits because they ever trick or curse you or trick and curse you and then kill you….. oh and if you hear a voice call you… IGNORE IT!!! Because whatever it is is not good)
I would’ve never guessed this was based of a real group of people. It’s so vaguely defined, it can be any group……… which defeats the point of saying it’s only one group.
@@madisonmorris7394 yes they're a vague placeholder for just a native people in general, very unspecific and a person would not know they're supposed to be Sami unless told so
I think it's an interesting americanisation where they assume Sami people are like Native Americans/First Nations so either they didn't want to confuse American audiences by making them look Sami or didn't care to do the research
@@Sootielove i think it's a mix of both. I know for the first movie they went to Arendal to see Norwegian culture and that Anna's dress is vaguely based off a traditional bunad, but I don't know if they took any trips for the second movie to get inspiration ;-;
Making Elsa's mother the voice smushes two storylines that don't work together.
In one story, Elsa, as the only magic user in her life, feels LONELY and wants CONNECTION to other people LIKE HER. Then it would make sense for the voice to be someone else. But then there should have BEEN someone else! To come all this way hoping for connection and understanding and being told "Nope, you are fine ALL ON YOUR OWN :)" sucks ass, actually.
In the other story, Elsa, who is basically a minor goddess and loves her magic, feels PENT UP and wants to EXPLORE HER OWN POWERS. Then it's fine when she arrives at the glacier and it's told "You are CAPABLE and you are ENOUGH, go do your own shit!" But then THE VOICE SHOULD HAVE BEEN HER OWN.
PICK ONE OR THE OTHER.
@@lauramcastro4897 Disney, you need to READ through your scripts before animating. THAT IS WHY MOVIE SCRIPTS EXIST.
27:07 As someone who is an AVID lover of film score, the only leitmotif I could remember within Frozen 2 was that 4-note siren call. And the fact that it wasn’t integrated into the rest of the score *at all* just baffles me.
I feel your pain here, my friend😢
And yes, all glory be to Sideways, the true King of the Leitmotifs🙌
As a recent English Grad and someone who constantly doubts his own work before it’s written, I really appreciate the ending of this video. It sucks how many people act like learning new things after you turn 18 is embarrassing or immature.
Or that if you're not already amazing at age X you should just stop, as if that is gonna make you any better or you couldn't enjoy a hobby without needing to constantly improve
Or if the world is going to hell you should just go to hell too
Or if the world around you is falling apart you should just let yourself fall apart too
i'm still convinced that they started blasting the avengers theme as loudly and clearly as possible in the later films as a direct response to 'the marvel symphonic universe'. it turns out a large chunk of memorability involves just yelling the same thing repeatedly until it sticks
what's funny is that when that part of this video came up I STILL couldn't remember any avengers movie music. I came up with "I am iron man" while I was trying to remember the actual avengers music
Problem is I can remember a lot in pieces, but can't remember them right and thus don't won't to try humming them
They should’ve done that with me in school 😆 nothing school related ever stuck in my brain- perhaps shouting it in the students’ ears would help it stick 😂
Yeah, I remember the avengers theme fine and they do have a few leit motifs. People just didn't pay attention to them
@@FFKonoko yeah I agree. As soon as that part came up it kinda took me out of the whole thing because I couldn’t stop thinking about how many avengers songs I knew perfectly. Iron Man, Iron Man 3, Winter Soldier, Dr. Strange, Thor Ragnarok, Spider-Man, The Avengers, Guardians of the Galaxy, Ant Man. They all have great distinct songs.
It would have been so cool to have the "Siren Call" be reharmonized in different scenes, to evoke different emotions. In the same manner as Toothless' theme gets changed A TON in HtTYD
Your main thesis here is absolutely correct as someone who has listened to the soundtrack a million times I literally could not hum a single theme from it, while I absolutely could from the first film's soundtrack! Right before you started talking about the siren call, I was literally thinking "you know, it's weird that I don't think they ever use the siren call in the soundtrack! why didn't they use the siren call??" and then lo and behold! that section of the video began and you answered my question xD
Ah, right, I got sidetracked--I wanted to say that your main thesis is absolutely correct, but the thing I wanted to comment on was your tangent about who the voice is. I've always thought it was strange and lame that the voice was Elsa's mother, it always felt off and Bad. It wasn't until this video that you finally verbalized for me *why* it felt so off. It should have been her own voice!! Thank you for that, it helped me figure out why that moment in the film landed so wrong for me.
The storyboard sequence at @32:02 is a cut version where Elsa basically finds her "spirit" instead of her mom. Basically its a visual metaphor for self-actualization and feeling connected to one's identity/history and just... finally knowing who you are and what your purpose should be. She essentially merges with the avatar state--because it's a special 5th ice elemental spirit that rules over all the others that takes on her form-- and becomes a fully fledged avatar lol. But idk why they cut it. Maybe because if she looked TOO powerful folks would wonder how/why she got trapped? Instead girl gets to let her hair down lol. So many threads/unanswered questions...
I was so deep into the nimona analysis that I forgot this was about frozen 2 😭 I'll check your channel after the video but PLEASE do an analysis of the nimona soundtrack, I love what I've seen so far
Yo it would be so cool if the water had the “eternalism” time idea, bc water is this constant, flowing, cycling material that all life depends on, and I think it would be a really beautiful and mysterious thing if water had this strange connection to the very fabric of time, I mean it literally carves out canyons and is this immense shaper of the land. And then it could be a kinda humorous reference point for why Elsa can create life lol
Like they don’t totally get it but they respect it bc ya gotta respect the power of nature and if ye want, even appreciate its beauty
well, this video must have gone through copyright hell.
Insert black and white melted Garfield footage here
(It was actually a lot less painful than I expected! In my experience, RUclips tends not to catch these things when you keep them under nine seconds, at a low volume, and/or underscore them with commentary. The only part that gave me real trouble was the game section, since the music needed to be center stage.)
@@The_Sin_Squad wow, yeah. It really paid off, tho! As a self-proclaimed music theory nerd, this video was a lot of fun
Sin Squad channeling their inner Sideways
I genuinely thought this was Sideways when I saw the thumbnail
Lost in the Woods is the beta version of I’m Just Ken
Oh my god you're right
Yes but I'm Just Ken is a textbook example of how musicals work. It's when emotions get big enough for a song and when that's not enough, you dance
Lost in the Woods walk so that I'm Just Ken can run
It just didn't have that Kenergy.
As a music composition student WOW I'm absolutely appalled at the experience your class put you through when you shared a piece of music for the first time. That teacher should have been fired or at least reprimanded for laughing at your piece and not chastising in the class for laughing too, any real teacher of the arts should be encouraging to their students rather than dismissive and apathetic 😡
Edit: having just gotten to the end of the video, as someone else in the comments has mentioned, the difference between a piece of generic sounding music that a new composer makes and a piece of generic sounding music that a corporation makes is the intention, level of experience, and resources; a new individual composer putting their heart and soul into something that ends up sounding generic would probably often still be appreciated and respected, whereas a mega conglomerate with all of the resources and talent in the world choosing to produce something generic and meaningless in spite of that IS bad. And besides, I'd say critical videos like this can be very beneficial tools to new composers warning them what NOT to do in the future if their music does sound generic
Honestly i am unfortunately not surprised. I tried an art program because creating is what i love the most. I gave up because a lot of art teachers are elitist and needlessly cruel. For a while i had lost all of my love for drawing, which was a huge deal since drawing is as necessary as breathing for me. I don't know what it is with art schools and being excessively cruel.
Your anecdote about your music composition and your class's reception of it broke my heart into teeny tiny pieces. People can be so quick to tear each other down just for the simple act of trying something different. As a fan of your videos, I always think you're extremely fair when discussing a work and its flaws; you're not perpetuating the snarky dismissiveness of your former classmates and professor, you're providing the nuanced critique which they SHOULD have offered to you all those years ago.
Also, thank you for giving a shout-out to the Horton Hears A Who soundtrack. Both the movie and its music are supremely underrated!!
It is really telling how many of the animated Disney movies with the most prominent soundtracks had the same creative leads working on both the songs with lyrics and the background score (see: Alan Menken and Randy Newman). Lion King was a major exception and even that had Hans Zimmer and his team very much involved with arranging Elton John's songs (there's a grazing joke in there somewhere).
Christophe Beck straight-up saying that he only included the songs that spoke to him in his score is baffling to me considering he's working on a musical. A musical film score doesn't have to just be reprises of the songs without lyrics, but you'd hope that the Lopezes and Beck would still be in communication so that the final soundtrack as a whole feels cohesive. Instead, Frozen 2 just kind of sounds like it was made by a bunch of separate creative divisions aimlessly tip-toeing around each other rather than collaborating as a united team under a shared goal (and, judging by the docuseries, you could argue the same about the entire production rather than just its music)
The first Frozen is dope tho. Music and ost as well. It’s a classic
@@JackiI-lu1ul Cool, not what op was talking about though.
@@guggelguggel7491 What? I can’t talk about the previous Movie’s score?
I know this was only posted around an hour ago but the quality of writing, editing and production in this video is absolutely top-notch and it inspires me. My wife and I rewatched both F1 and F2 back to back recently and the difference in storytelling quality and musical cohesion stuck out like a sore thumb instantly, I'm glad it's not just us who felt that way
I'm adding this comment to my "happy folder" to look at the next time I'm feeling low. Thank you so much ;w; !
Man I love Frozen 1 so much, but I really couldn’t stand F2. I feel like it took away everything that made F1 so great
I’m only 9 minutes into the video but this video is SO FASCINATING. I never noticed this before, but damn, I can’t unsee (or unhear it). Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast etc have SO many leitmotifs that aren’t connected to the musical numbers and gives insight into what the characters are thinking even when they aren’t speaking, like when The Beast first sees Belle for example etc. It’s not just about the existence of the motif but how the motif draws out those emotions 😔 Now that you’ve pointed this out about Frozen 2 I am actually mad, what the hell 😭😭😭😭
I failed the quiz 😭😭😭 someone has to revoke my Disney fan card
25:17 THIS IS NUTS ??????????????? HUH
I’m going to choose to believe it was Elsa’s voice 😭 I can’t take this
OMG I didn't expect to see you here-
Love your videos btw
HI CALXIYN :D
I think what frustrates me is that they are so avoidant of confusing children, and I understand wanting your message and story to be clear to the audience because it shouldn't be so convoluted that they don't understand. But often I find enjoyment rewatching movies from my childhood and discovering new themes in them that I miss as a kid. It feels like the movie matures with you. And it is experienced from a whole new angle. I suppose the writers who wrote the movies were doing something risky that the kids might not understand, but it just leads to a more memorable piece of media.
A child can watch a movie, not understand any of the themes or messages, and not care because they're entertained by the humor, journey, or the visuals. Growing up to find out a movie is much deeper than you could have ever imagined is extremely rewarding.
Those are the movies that stick with you.
Kids are stupid, but they're also not. They appreciate far more than people tend to give them credit for. And it's a shame that a lot of movies don't seem to realize that.
Not the plate of cookies for Sideways 2:15 😭 we miss you king
🍪 🍪 🍪
Gone but not forgotten in the hallowed realms of RUclips musical critics
I almost commented that she reminded me of Sideways and then she said this 😭
The shepard's call is by far the most iconic and beautiful motif in Frozen 2 and it speaks volumes about the film's production in how the story team never figured out what it meant and as a result, the composer could never use it in the score. Frozen 2 really struggled to find it's theme and identity and I do not envy the production being rushed to hell and back by executives
What's funny is that the first movie actually used the cattle calls in its score, such as in the tracks Whiteout, Elsa and Anna, Summit Siege, and Sorcery, so it seems really weird that they didn't use any of it in Frozen 2.
I would love for you to talk more about Nimona's score. I got so into you describing it, that when you begrudgingly and painfully reminded yourself that you were going to talk about Frozen 2, I got sad along with you XD
BABE WAKE UP SIN SQUAD UPLOADED!!!
me as soon as i saw this
Fantastic as always and in particular my thanks for giving me yet another reason to love Nimona. I
As a fellow creative trying to poor their soul into a passion project she fears isn’t ever going to be worth something to anyone but myself, your work actually inspires me a lot.
I haven’t seen your videos in a while, so I had forgotten how eloquent your scripts were, or your RUclips poop editing style that almost contradicts the honest to god poetry you’d just spoken. Its beautifully human, in all of its inconsistencies
Hot DAMN, this was some of the best analysis I've come across in recent memory. Your critique, your humor, your delivery, your presentation... I'm completely blown away. Some of the most thought-provoking and downright /poetic/ media analysis I've had the fortune to come across. I especially appreciate how you got me hooked in on something seemingly so small. Instant subscription for me.
Outlander has such an incredible soundtrack that it only took the first note at 15:22 for me to instantly recognize the track. It's so memorable I find myself humming it and have even had it playing in the background of a dream once.
On the other hand, all three of the other songs from that same section blended into each other perfectly.
1:02 I can't escape
LOL
your teachers description of your music sounds like something i would like. one of my playlists used to be named “beep boop boppin and beepin”. there’s really no way to judge music to me. your class was rude and didn’t even try to think about how someone else (including you) may like the music. they could’ve done critique well but instead they criticized.
As a soundtrack enjoyer with apparently similar tastes, I am sat and ready to listen (also an enjoyer of the same pet groomer lmao)
I recommend the soundtrack for andor, 1917, into the spider verse and across the spider verse, The soundtracks for season 9 and season 5 of Doctor who, chicken run, Gravity, Mad Max Fury road, gladiator, Stardust, Moonrise Kingdom, The Green Knight, The Boy and the Heron, and the very bad last airbender movie has an excellent score. I look forward to perusing your playlist 👍👍
i could write tens of essays on the soundtracks for atsv and itsv, so seconded! for strange/unexpected sounds, i also recommend utopia (2013)'s soundtrack and that of its season 2
@@itsevanffsnever expected to see someone else reference Utopia, but yes the soundtrack has loads of unexpected sounds, and I feel encapsulates the show really well! Have you seen Pyrocynical’s video on Utopia?
@jameisname6177 i have! that's how i discovered it, actually. now i listen to the soundtrack every month or so :P
13:02 this quote made me immediately think of "test drive" from how to train your dragon. the suddenly change of the score takes me by surprise almost every time i listen to it
man I hate the argument that "oh well music is just sound waves how can we judge them" because it's borderline incel "love is just a chemical reaction" ideology. not only does it devalue any efforts of artists (and probably could be attributed to a gross functionalism/facist root), it's just so dumb. it's like "oh all food tasting good is, it's just chemical reactions in our mouth" like alright then eat this moldy bread. it's just pompous weirdos who can't admit that there is a level of objective quality in every analysis and art, sure if you dilute every possible thing and analyze it from a cold robotic lens, it's just "a picture" or it's just "sound" but that's for dumb people who can't fathom giving credit where credit is due and criticism where criticism is needed.
this is written in the wake of an awful discussion with my older brother about how I can't have an opinion on saltburn because I tapped out halfway and heard a synopsis on the rest. god forbid I did not eat the entire moldy sandwich and then get back to you on the fact it was bad.
There is so much salt in this comment. I love it.
@@ViktoriaMagreyironically it both has salt and is a burn
Okay but music is art, and art is about freedom. You can’t judge that because you can’t judge feelings
@@JackiI-lu1ulthat’s the most nonsensical argument that doesn’t actually explain anything that I have heard in a while.
…because art is incredibly subjective (taste is also incredibly subjective). Humans have literally evolved to find things like mold gross to taste bc eating them is hazardous to our health (and even then, there are certain types of mold that people do eat). There is no objectivity to something like music, drawing, or photography because unlike food, experiencing bad art doesn’t kill you.
You can think saltburn is bad but the very fact that other people do enjoy it while you don’t proves your point wrong.
I love movies and film that treat *every* part of the process as it's own art. I think people notice, they don't realize individual things, but the collective whole makes a good piece of media, great. I think that's what's happened with spiderverse, with nimona, hell, even with good omens (even though the third still has *plenty* of faults, it's one that made me fall in love with live-action. i hear the swell of a violin and a chorus from the final ten and i start getting nervous, i hear crowley's theme or aziraphale's theme and i sing along).You can just *feel* every single piece of it, including the music, was treated as it's own art. People can tell, even if it's not specifics.
I think most animated movies do this.
I'm only about halfway through the video, but this really exemplifies how amazing the HTTYD soundtrack is in comparison to Disney's music for Frozen 2; HTTYD makes music for every scene that not only adds to it, but evokes the emotion you're meant to feel; New Tail gives a sense of wonderment and dedication and determination mixed with the danger of flight, Test Drive gives the excitement of flying and working as a team, the discomfort of figuring it out while eventually trusting one's intuition, giving the blood-pumping climax of that song. See You Tomorrow gives a playful, excited sound that lets you feel the near-mischief and mistakes Hiccup makes along the way, and Toothless's playfulness; the use of leismotif in HTTYD is so stark and beautiful, I regularly find myself returning to that movie.
Meanwhile, I couldn't tell you a single thing about Frozen 2. I've watched it, I know I have, but the movie just doesn't stand out in my mind. The closest thing to standing out is Elsa's song about a prophecy or whatever, but even then I don't think about it as something that *defines* the moment for me. It's just there to help, even as a song sung BY Elsa! It goes to show that having a bold soundtrack that not only adds to the scene, but also defines the moment for the emotion it's attempting to evoke, is so important with making the movie memorable.
just gonna mention this after watching the full video, which is that it seems that i've somehow been spoiled by LEGO Ninjago (yes, you heard me right!) for genuinely having interesting and intrusive soundtracks, to the point that I can play any soundtrack from the first season to my brother who used to watch it with me as a kid, and I'd bet he'd be able to (roughly) tell me when it plays in the season.
(This is my excuse to ramble about my favorite soundtracks)
One of my personal favorite examples (and the easiest to explain) of this is the main characters theme, Lloyd. To sum up his character, he's like eight and the son of the main villain from the pilot episode. He's a brat and stumbles into causing every single main conflict. His theme is mischievous and playful, very bouncy, and you hear it and you're like. "Oh, god. What now?"
Then the other main characters, the Ninja, find out about a prophecy of 'the green ninja' who is supposedly the most powerful Ninja out there, and the one destined to defeat Lloyd's father. The green ninja theme is mysterious, it's bittersweet but then becomes hopeful, and is VERY recognizable.
Then comes the episode when they find out that Lloyd *is* the green ninja, and when the two themes merge. The once mysterious theme begins to have playful beats in its quieter moments, it's more bittersweet learning that he has to fight his dad, and it no longer sounds as inspirational as it did.
But as Lloyd develops into a great warrior, the playful elements fade away. You can literally hear soundtrack to soundtrack as it grows *WITH HIM,* becoming more epic as he gains new powers and discovers new things about them. Every single important battle with Lloyd in it has his theme, and you can hear exactly how much confidence he has going into it, and whether or not he's powerful enough to conquer the villain.
Not only that but the ACTUAL main villain, the Overlord (not Lloyd's father) has his own theme, which is very dark and booming with a choir, which *also* builds up throughout the course of the season as he becomes more powerful. And then the final battle (literally called 'the final battle') includes BOTH of their themes, and you can hear both of their themes fighting for the main track as they both fight for victory. If The Overlords winning, you can hear his theme more prominently, while Lloyd's hums in the back, waiting for a chance to strike and overtake.
Then, as just a cool little final thing that I like---is that eventually theres a reboot where Lloyd shows up but told from another persons perspective. The soundtrack that plays is not Lloyd's fully developed soundtrack---but the first mysterious one, because this character doesn't know Lloyd's struggles and doubts, has not watched him grow, and therefore the soundtrack doesn't play him as the warrior we know.
and then ONE FINAL THING TO SAY ( I SWEAR IM ALMOST DONE) is that later on, in this reboot, the new main character who's struggle is not being able to progress or get any better fights against the villain in what's supposed to be a dramatic last stand, but then he fails in the same way he did in the *first episode.* The soundtrack that plays is a dark version of the main Ninjago Overture, but it never makes it past the first four notes, looping endlessly while the character struggles to fight, and then ends on the wrong note as he fails again, because he's not good enough.
All in all to say, i was genuinely shocked watching this video thinking that a *LEGO SHOW's* soundtrack has so much more depth and thought put into it than an actual disney movie.
thanks for reading my lego show rant, if anyone got this far.
I liked it. Did the redesign to the movie faces in the pre-reboot series affect the music in any way or was that just me being paranoid?
@sacrificiallamb4568 Nope! Not at all!! The seasons after the redesign (s8-10) do have their own themes that are pretty good, especially Harumi's! I'd say it's definitely worth checking out. But afterwards in the 11min Era, some of the highlights are Akita, Nyad, Unagami, all of master of the mountain, ect. and dragons rising is pretty good too!!
@@violetana6969 Ah, because around then Series 8-9, I remember thinking the musical style of the show had changed in some imperceptible way. (More than usual between series, I meant.) I need to catch up on that show, even though it's technically 3 and a half shows for me.
All the Voltron clips are causing me pain
Great video!
Another fellow Sherlock Holmes 2008 score enjoyer 🤝 another favorite of mine is the Fantastic Mr Fox score. So memorable!
Sherlock Holmes was such a good film, I was kinda shocked because I had not heard anyone talk and just watched it on a whim
that Mona Lisa and Buck Cluck comparison was DIABOLICAL
On the note of sharing something that feels like a part of you: I shared your Lion King 1 and 1/2 video with a coworker when it came out, and about five minutes later I heard him from his cubicle trying to stifle his laughter for the next hour. Much like sharing music you like and hoping that your friends or family also enjoy it because their reactions feel like a reflection on their opinion of your taste, sharing your video and hearing that reaction gave me a ton of joy. Your work has not only been something I’ve greatly appreciated for its own merits but also something which has given more indirect happiness. I’ve had bad art crits before (ironically more often from my parent than from “professional” settings) and it’s very easy to hold on to the frustration or pain that they cause. But it’s also important to remember that a lot of people feel joy from what you’ve shown us, and as a complete stranger who’s just chosen to rant about hyper specific topics on very specific movies you’ve been a positive influence for me and likely countless other people. Try to remember that, and don’t be too hard on yourself.
8:49 Discombobulate, my beloved!
The end made me tear up. To put you in the picture , I am an art student, everytime I actually try and pour my heart and soul into something it gets heavily criticised. I am used to criticism, however finally opening yourself only to be forced to shut yourself down again is mentally draining. Your silly Frozen video made me think about myself, really. It's funny. I love the way your videos are structured. It's a perfect balance of comedy and seriousness. You've done ton of research and you know what you're talking about. You earned a new follower, can't wait for your next videos! You're great! 💙
Honestly, you've do wonderfully summarized why I... not _hated,_ but why I was utterly disinterested in Frozen 2.
It's the only movie I've fallen asleep to I'm the past decade. And I can say that with confidence because I'm not narcoleptic, and love movies as an experience enough that if I'm tired enough that I'm starting to fade in and out of consciousness, I won't put on a movie. I'll just take a nap or go to bed. Frozen 2 put me to sleep in three separate occasions, and I finally gave up trying to watch the movie all the way through and just watched the ending on RUclips.
I've been able to sit through other movies with boring stories because the music is good, and I've sat through movies with bad music because the action was good (yes, I'm talking about the MCU). Frozen 2 is a nothing burger. There is nothing for my adhd addled brain to latch onto, so it shuts down.
Now…when I think about the Frozen ll score, the only parts that stick out to me are The Dark Sea and Reindeer Circle. To me, I think The Dark Sea actually does a great job at building up the tension as Elsa is put in further and further danger. It crashes with the waves of the sea, the vocals intensify the dread as the Water Nokk gets closer to drowning Elsa, and the violins seem to build up alongside Elsa as she makes her second attempt to cross the sea. (In honesty, I listen to it quite often!) This is also what makes “Wind” stand out as well: it takes elements from “Dark Sea”, and uses it in an effective way to foreshadow the danger Elsa is going to put herself in.
And I agree about the Reindeer Circle: it’s the only time it truly feels like a Frozen film. The vocals are absolutely gorgeous, and made even more beautiful by it being the first time the Northuldra get to see the sky after so many years. ❤️
But otherwise… it’s quite sad how little of the score I can remember compared to the songs. I truly adore when a score ends up enhancing the film watching experience, especially when the film is already so amazing. Just take WALL-E, How To Train Your Dragon, The Prince of Egypt, The Lego Movie, Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs, Tangled, Pirates of The Caribbean, the beginning of The Lego Batman Movie, Soul, Coraline, The Incredibles… you name it! Even Cars 2 has such a banger of a score… and it’s laughable! I’ve heard it said before, but when you have a score that stands out… it feels as if it’s its own character. It subtly takes us along the journey we’re watching unfold.
I cant speak from the perspective of an indigenous people but I can speak from a creative standpoint and Frozen 2 only cares about Arendelle and it SHOWS
The northuldra people in F2 are literally so featureless; they all wear the exact same clothes (like identically produced, not just of a same style), those clothes are all GREY and featureless (Elsa's mom's scarf doesn't resemble anything they're wearing!), they almost all have the same face, their homes appear to be identical featureless huts (again, featureless in that they tell us nothing of the people or how they live like how they're built) and the movie neglects to explore anything about how they've been living in that forest (without sunlight?) for years or how they live at all. Literally they don't even cook on screen; it's a failure of world building/character writing.
Compare this to the Arendelle citizens or even just the old guards in the forest and you can see what Disney did and did not care about
The forest is featureless and empty unless the main characters need something to gawk at (like the reindeer herd or the trolls), the blame is all put on the evil grandad while ignoring the old guardw that supported him and have been antagonizing the northulda for THIRTY YEARS?? and not even a second of consideration was given to asking how those guards couldve survived i nthat forest for that long if they actuvely antagonized the only group ofp eople that know how to live there
Its all so shallow and barely justified and its frustrating. There was potential in the ideas, like if Anna and Elsa learned about the Northuldra and their mother and Anna worked to reconcile the old guards and the northuldra while Elsa was learning to reconcile with the spirits then the conclusion where Anna is queen, Elsa is with the spirits and both are the bridge wpuld be much stronger and satisfying
Even Wish has more distinct character designs, in regards to Asha, her friends, her family, Magnifico, Star and Amaya.
NIMONA MENTIONED RAAAGHHH
literally how i feel
I feel like this video was made for me specifically. That last segment, at this point in time, word for word.
This year my perspective on art and myself has tripped over a rock and tumbled down a lush hill like a pinball.
I've been stuffed inside a washing machine and stripped of my protective layers, then set in front of a mirror to dry. It's tough, it's nasty, it's scary but I can't say it doesn't feel good to taste a little bit of truth within myself. I appreciate your honesty, your vulnerability, the littlest pieces of yourself you've sewn into your work, it's a great comfort to me, it makes a little less afraid and more excited to try my hand at art again.
Thank you, from the bottom of my heart, for your work!
I really dig your metaphor, and having gotten my first few critiques on my fan music I can honestly say I feel somewhat the same way, but ultimately it’s led me to try and improve myself.
PLEASE make a nimona video!!! That was such a fascinating dive!!!!
I remember the first and, so far, only time I watched Frozen II way back in college and since I was deep in a classic rock phase my first thought was “wow, I didn’t think a Frozen sequel would end on similar emotional beat as The Who’s Tommy.” Now whenever I hear someone bring up Frozen II I just think about Tommy and the image of a shirtless Roger Daltrey scaling a mountain.
Also great to find a fellow “Horton Hears A Who” score enjoyer. We are truly a small branch on the vast beautiful tree of autism 😌
i never liked that every frame a painting bit with the people on the street cuz at that point none of the marvel themes had ever been repeated in multiple movies, while the classic themes everyone recognized were all from major series that had had multiple movies with the same theme music. Like sure we all know the star wars theme and harry potter that weve heard thousands of times in a dozen movies, but i bet none of those people could sing the ET theme even though its great. And post Endgame i bet a lot more people could tell you the Avengers theme.
So i guess the thing that might have made this score work better and feel more memorable would be work mostly with motifs created in the first movie (and if he was allowed to use the siren call smh).
Yeah, I could personally sing ET, but I maaaaaay be a bit of a Soundtracks Georg in that regard. There are plenty of films with exceptional scores that your average person wouldn't recall right away, and that doesn't necessarily speak to the quality of the music at all.
I'm also confused as to why Beck didn't incorporate more of the motifs he'd already built up from the first film. I can't believe I've still never seen Endgame btw!
Given your argument, you may have already seen these videos, but I would definitely agree. Even back then, I could hum the Avengers theme, so I was quite surprised when no one else in the video could.
There have been a number of good responses to the Every Frame a Painting video. In the recent past, "Marvel Continuity in the MCU" by never nothing went really in depth on the current Marvel musical continuity.
Marvel Music: The Thematic Continuity Issue by Seth S. was a really good look at how the Marvel themes hadn't exactly been repeated up to that point in time.
However, it did point out that the Avengers theme had been repeated.
Why You (Actually) Don't Remember Marvel Music by JulienCFDurand points out that a theme can be memorable by being repeatable regardless of any real quality.
I took your advice when you said spoilers for Nimona, and watched it with my partner this past weekend. We were both reduced to a single, contiguous sobbing mess by the end. Thanks for giving me the shove.
Btw the correct answer to "sing a song from any marvel movie" is Mysterio's theme from spider-man far from home. It legit goes hard and is really flexible across it's different instances
(If any marvel IP films are allowed, any spider-verse track is also an extremely acceptable answer. Shoutout to Spot's theme)
I love both Spider-verse movies soundtracks, Ghost Spider's theme rings gently in the back of my head often
Not a movie but the Agatha All Along's Ballad of the Witches' Road is a bop and relevant to the plot.
I’m able to name and sing the main avengers theme, but that’s the only one I can even think of.
@ep1c_p3rson50 I'm actually able to hum pretty much every main theme from every Phase 1-3 movie (sans Captain Marvel, which was even more generic than usual for these films), but I was honestly such a huge Marvel nut at the time that I'm pretty sure my ability to do so doesn't count for much 😂
I guessed right on the first two questions. The second one was the theme I was most confident about, because it's tied to the water horse & Elsa's growing self-actualization within the forest, which is really the only motif in the score I actually remember alongside Vuelie (aka the franchise's title theme). The first was because of process of elimination: I know Frozen 2 does not have electronic music like B, nor the Danny Elfman-style twinkling of C, and D was not right because Frozen 2 has only one significant siren theme, and it wants you to know it by heart. Could not for the life of me guess the third.
I think it says something that I remember the score of The Owl House, a fairly popular animated series, better than I do the theme of ONE OF THE HIGHEST-GROSSING FILMS OF ALL TIME.
I was thinking about the owl house the whole time. The way it’s a TV SHOW and especially in the last 8 episodes there are soooo many musical moments that just leap out. Especially the part in King’s Tide where the orchestra is building and then the opening theme just SLAMS in and the original closing theme playing near the end of thanks to them
@@benjisaac The final six minutes of King's Tide is some of my favorite soundtrack work in anything. Just the way every single theme builds off the previous, going from anxiety at the climax to dread to sadness, it's absolutely wonderful.
I have never been a musician. I haven’t thought about Frozen 2 in years. This video made me cry. I have so many ideas in my head, so much art I want to make. How do I know it’s good enough? How do you quantify that kind of value? Sharing this part of me makes me so vulnerable. I’m afraid that it will be too muddled and be forgotten. I’m afraid it will reveal too much about me and be remembered. I have been trying to reel it in and make it more safe. I’m afraid of ruining it. But yeah. I think just creating is worth it.
I’ve found that my more memorable/out there ideas seem to get more attention on my channel, so get creative for lack of a better phrase 😄
"Who's emailing...? OH MY GOD I GOT AN AO3 COMMENT FUCK YEAH-"
This happened to me earlier this weekend too. I felt like a literature god, althrough my writing experience came from roleplaying and fanfiction.
I'm only partway through the video but I want to stop and say how wonderful, specific, and expressive the closed captions are. It's such a breath of fresh air to see a video with that kind of effort put into transcribing the script (expletives, punctuation, and all) *and* capturing the sound effects and intended mood. Props for that, thank you very much!
It kinda disappoints me when media I like has such a meh ost. Orchestra music is so good when done right, but unfortunately it’s used so generically when a sound cue needs to be met, and usually lacks any leitmotif that would bring some spice to it.
Brooo. Great video. Also i miss sideways so much 😢 i have re-watchd all hos stuff so manny times. I just want my boy back!
12:30 literally breaking my heart 😩 I recited like 4 Marvel scores from memory on the spot-how could not one of these people remember? Not even the iconic Avengers theme? Captain America 1? Iron Man 1? Ant-Man? Spider-Man Homecoming? anyone?
Immediately the guardians of the galaxy theme came to mind lol
As someone who was (at the time) in school for animation, I remember getting to the big show yourself scene and thinking... "Man, it's so obvious they did this part last." So much of the blocking for that song is no background at all, or just the reflection of previously rendered scenes on a flat surface. Imagine my shock when I found out that this movie was in development for 6 years.
They should've asked ME the Marvel music question I would've sung the Winter Soldier theme at the top of my lungs
23:54 okay to be fair that sonic unleashed piece only plays when you get a bad score, its meant to be awful, so it serves its purpose really well
the father the son and the holy spirit except it’s sideways, olaf, and spicy mayonnaise
the comparison of Olaf and religious figure was not in the list of things to expect for today, but it made me BIG laugh
haven't gotten to the Frozen 2 part yet and I'm so nervous lol. while I acknowledge it's a very messy and rushed movie with no clear plots or themes, Elsa has always been a character very dear to my heart and so I loved her story and songs in the second one purely because I got to see more of her. I'm sure your criticisms will be fair and accurate tho ❤️
edit: OH GOOD it's about the SCORE not the musical songs LMAO
Meanwhile I’m like “finally! Someone critiquing an actual SOUNDTRACK!! Background music! Not just the musical numbers!
In the tragic absense of sideways (hes not dead im just dramatic) it is a tremendous blessing to stuble upon this video, and your channel. Your thought spiral infected me with thinking way more deeply about art than is healthy as this late hour /positive
2:06 PROMARE MENTIONED‼ (only 2 mins in but I will be watching trust)
Promare is the greatest movie ever !!!!!!
I was literally looking at Promare art on pinterest when that showed up 😭❤
Finally got around to finishing the video and I really liked how you framed your critique and points- I feel like the closing statement was esp poignant too. I'm doing an semester long passion project assignment and I'm trying out making music on a DAW for the first time (despite being in band for most of my school life).
Frozen two is such a sad case study in making a safe, marketable product that doesn't invoke much. It sucks that it bleeds into the soundtrack as well.
@@ij8961 real🙏🙏
PROMARE MENTIONED!!!! [I was gonna comment the exact same thing until I saw your comment, haha]
12:45 They can’t even do the Avenger’s theme
ikr
I was having such a bad day but then I saw you uploaded! I don't know much about music, but I definitely agree Frozen 2 felt "safe" in every way. I love all the funny clips you edit into your videos and the little pieces of information you give about yourself. I'm sorry you had that experience with the music you made. I gave up art because of my nasty AP Art teacher in high school and something horrible my family said to me. I know how it feels to have something you love and enjoy doing get ruined for you. Anyway, great video as always~
I just wanted to say- thank you. I'm currently making a 7 minute long animated short with classmates. we have like a month to crunch the rest of it. I've been seeing your videos as background voice while i draw and animate stuff, and it ressonates so much with me on a deeper level. seeing someone talk about music and animation in a SO passionate way motivates me. i just wanted to say thank you:') this video has guided my group to make a better, lasting ost along with our short.
Oh god, animation is such a powerful medium, but it's also so time-consuming! The film kids at my school actually set up a cardboard bedroom in one of the computer labs for naps. Music + sound effects really do make an enormous difference; my roommate took the FAV route and he always says good sound design can turn any "bad" animated film into a masterpiece.
That said, I hope y'all don't push yourselves too hard! No art, however masterful, is worth your health. Y'all deserve sleep/days off/fun side quests! I know school doesn't tend to leave any room for rest-but I hope you find a way to carve out some "me time" anyway. It's an incredibly difficult and valuable skill, to be able to put your foot down in a collaborative crunch-culture environment and say, "Today I am going to skip class and take a mental health day. If you need to reach me, no you don't." As the saying goes: "If you don't pick a day off, your body will pick one for you." If your film comes out flawed in a way that bugs you, please know people will love it anyway-many because of those flaws, not despite them! Audiences connect with art in such unique, unexpected ways. The details of your art that make you want to tear your hair out will inevitably speak to someone in a way that endears them further to your product. I adore tons of deeply flawed films/shows full of nonsensical story decisions and muddy symbology and awkward animation. I'd be pissed to see any of those stories "fixed!" I wouldn't connect with them the same way at all. I don't want a perfect polished crystal-I want something weird and unique to toss around like a dog with a rubber chicken.
Sorry for the mother hen soap box! I just worry about art degree folks, knowing how intense the culture can get. Your short film is going to be amazing!! Wishing you delicious snacks and zero software hiccups!
Frozen is quite literally one of the most important movies in my personal life.
Frozen II smashed my childhood and defecated on its face.
I’m catching this now, but the Sideways mention at the beginning, and the Tantacrul influence I can just HEAR in this whole video makes me love this whole thing so much
AND the Voltron footage????
Man, you got me like butter
Iirc the every frame a painting video
Actually caused some marvel musicians to re evaluate their scorring
28:46- at this point I kinda thought you were gonna go all rage quit; specifically, Micheal Jones from Rooster Teeth/Achievement Hunter
Brother in Olaf, this was AHmazing as always! I usually don't write comments (like ever, I try to talk myself out of it like I'm relapsing or something, "Put the letters and wordies down, Karla, they can only bring us shame and the need to buy more dinosaur stickers) but I did want to say something this time. I watch A LOT of video essays on RUclips and truly enjoy a great chunk of them but out of all the creators, I really consider you one of the most creative and original thinkers. You're incredibly perceptive and witty and I rarely ever come across someone who's voice I truly, in my core, feel as "one of a kind". Doesn't matter if we see things differently or if our percepcions align, your interpretation and deep emotional understanding of not only world's subjects but it's own intermingled structure that connects it all always amazes me. Also, I'm an animation student currently and hearing you talk about your own art school experience always brings me an odd sort of comfort. It do be tough (sometimes you love it, sometimes you can feel yourself transforming into a Glen Keane 60fps animation with no duplicated inbetweens wondering if you're really any better than 24fps, you sure are more work but bro, really, but it's too late now, you're being smoothly animated brother, there's nothing you can do about it, hihi). Your way of thinking really makes sense to me, even when our patterns diverge, so I guess, in an odd way, I get that unexplainable feeling of destined okay-ness. It's gonna be okay. This very creative, original and intelligent person is out there making the world better just by sharing their rich view of it and I'm really glad we have that. I made my own "Frozen 2" this year in the shape of a student film that didn't turn out that well, ultimately losing itself in the undecided symbolism. Watching this is special in a way, witnessing effort and skill being put into analyzing a film so regrettably flawed, filled with passion but without direction. Yet still being analyzed with curiosity and respect, with the need to make something out of the gaps of it's flaws, rather than completely indulge in the frustration they cause. I'm gonna stop myself now, everytime I write I just reinvent the Bible, lenghtwise. Please keep on creating in whichever form you find inspirational. Your voice is a creative force of it's own :)
This comment means so much to me; thank you for watching and commenting! Even if you don't think your film turned out that well, it's like you said-that art is still packed full of meaning, and it will still connect with its viewers in unique, wonderful, and unexpected ways. It takes so much bravery to put out that kind of project, and I really do hope you're proud of what you created (and shared!). It's so hard to nail down all these complex symbols with a deadline over your head. I hope you do receive many more delightful, glossy, water bottle-tough dinosaur stickers. I am passing one to you through the computer in solidarity!
💓🦖
@@The_Sin_Squad Thank you soooo much, I don't think my silly little words can explain how meaningful this comment is :'3. I'll save it physically inside my cluttered and delighted phone and metaphorically inside my even more cluttered and delighted heart. Please keep on challenging, uncovering and changing the world with your unique creative energy. To you I send a brachiosaurus/brontosaurus/diplodocus/apatosaurus/it's hard to tell sticker 🦕💛
Thank you very very much :')
AMAZING as always!! So many moments that had me pausing the video and cackling (this is normal for your vids) I've been replaying both Psychonauts 1 and 2 and hiGHLY recommend the OST from both. Peter McConnell is just an absolute wizard. Some of my favorites are Duel With The Critic, (I'm a SUCKER for big ol drums) The Wild Bull Run, and Loboto's Labrynith. 💖
Too bad the movies themselves sucked ass especially the second one like holy hell
I remember having this same problem with Incredibles 2. I could probably hum any theme from the first movie if you told me the scene it was found in, but I came out of the second with nothing. Couldn’t remember a single theme.
23:46 when i say sonic unleashed has a great ost, this is exactly what i'm talking about. no i'm not talking about the day stage themes or endless possibility, i'm talking about the song that plays when you do so bad that the game starts laughing at you
I hesitated to watch this video for a bit longer than I normally would cos your channel is 'The Sin Squad' and CinemaSins has scarred me lol. But you presented an engaging and balanced review of the music and the creative decisions that went into the film (and how it's always the mouse's fucking fault in the end). More importantly, your critiques obviously come from a love of music and art, and also an understanding of how to actually give a crit for improvement (and not how your peers and lecturer reacted to your music)
This video also has a nice balance between video essay/analysis vibes and friend ranting. Since I watch a lot of both types of videos (and also have friends (and myself) who will talk casually but also throw in technical terms or analytical language cos it's how we talk), this is very pleasant for me hahah
Edit: HOly fuck I was just scrolling through your videos and apparently I watched your voltron vids??????? Like, when they first came out???? And also ur She-Ra video??? And I literally just watched your Onceler video??? You've been in my brain like a little worm and I didn't even know it.
Sorry, that was a little more chaotic than I expected
...every analysis for frozen 2 is just a reminder that these folks either didn't know what the hell to for it, or were restricted every time they had an idea.
12:24 PEOPLE DON'T ALL KNOW THE AVENGERS THEME???
That video was in 2016. After Infinity War/Endgame everyone knows it
@WeaponizedAutism7 Maybe I'm a big nerd because I knew that song for sure after the first movie. It plays in the big spinny shot it's so iconic.
That part at 23:10 was such a good twist, I was honestly totally caught off guard by that. Great video, thanks for this
the quiz part was pretty difficult, but i wasnt expecting the pieces to actually be so vague that they more remind me of those copyright free soundbytes in a video editing software
Always so exciting when you post a new video! 🥳
I can’t believe I’m this late to this video because it might be my new favorite critique video…ever??? Not only do you compare and contrast the scores that are the focus of your critique but you also delve deeper into what it actually means to be a critic and have your own tastes. And as an amazing bonus the humor is SO GOOD. I had to pause and rewind the video multiple times because a joke hit me completely off guard just so i could laugh all over again. SO happy I can add another great subscription to my list!
Those deleted scenes are wild. Didn’t know there was a frozen 2 that was actually good
I lost it at 30:50 mentioning Girl with the Dogs and mayonaise - if im ever youtuber i also just wanna namedrop random ppl
Sooo many bad children’s movies can be explained by the producers lack of trust in children’s intelligence… oh my god.
Hear me out: When I was 6 I didn’t understand what Simba and Rafiki were talking abt I just thought it was funny to see the crazy monkey wacking simba while they were having a conversation. Rewatching as a teenager I was floored abt the “running away from his past” metaphor.
But some kids probably understood it the first time and it was worth it for them.
There were lots of deep subjects I COULD understand as well. It’s always worth to have your story be about something more.