Did you know that no flat triangle can ever have more than 1 right-angled corner? And did you know that if you copy any flat right-angled-triangle, rotate the copy through 180 degrees and join the two triangles together along the longest side, you will always get a shape where *every* corner is a right angle?! Not only that, if you then measure half-way along either of the two pairs of opposite sides of that shape, and cut along the line between those points, you will always get *identical twin* shapes where every corner is a right angle. Mind blown!
As a scientist, I can only say, all sciences points to God. To me, Molecular Biology, Biochemistry, and Genetics, made me realize there was a creator or a designer. I didn't tag it with any religion, nor any "god" on earth. So I wanted to look for the truth and explored all religions I possibly could. >+ 10 years later, I ended up being found by the truth, the way, and the life, which is Jesus Christ.
I have a masters in microbiology/cellular biology. I haven't seen anything that would warrant belief in God. You're argument is going to be something along the lines of, the chances are too low to happen naturally, or it's too complicated to happen naturally. That's a blatant argument from ignorance. I can't explain this, therfore God. I'd like to ask. Of all the times we didn't understand a natural occurrence but later did, how many times has the answer been god? The answer is zero. As an example, the tides were once thought of as irrefutable proof of the divine. They came in and out in a predictable way, and there was no mechanism to explain it. That was, until a few hundred years later and we realize it is the moons gravity pulling on the oceans. NEVER have we not understood something, later did, and the answer been god. Not once. So, why would I assume the answer will be god on the subjects you've brought up, when that's never happened a single time?
God is a God of order. He numbered the stars☆☆☆ He knows every hair on our head. Poetry is shorthand for the soul. It draws us out of the physical world and into the spiritual world. Words are imperfect but contain an essence of an idea. Jesus is the Word. Knowing Him helps one to more fully understand life.
@antoniotejera2303 Might be, but it's what I see and feel. In no way must you agree. Draw your own conclusions. Do you agree with poetry or experience it? I see God's order and structure in math and science. It's there for us to discover There is a lot to discover and some things we take on faith until we find we went down the wrong path and try again. It's human nature. How many attempts for Edison to invent the lightbulb? He didn't invent physical properties and laws of nature. He worked with them.
@@Marlena5227 I do like poetry, and I think it is exclusively human and have no reason to think a god,or the soul beyond metalhorical writing, has anything to do with it. I don't know why you do. My favorite poet often wrote about friendship and helping others less fortunate, you could say his writing were a window to how he viewed the world through them. But is not a way to look into his soul or a piece of it beyond figuratively.
@@antoniotejera2303Jesus has everything to do with creation and it's intricacies. Since Jesus is called "The Word" and since Christians believe that He is the creator, it would make since that He is the reason for how Man could be reasonable enough to create Poetry. Since Poetry is something that isn't new but has always been around since the dawn of mankind.
Exactly. It's the same with music. There's seven distinct notes in a musical scale (in which all notes want to eventually resolve back to the first note in the scale and there three notes in a chord (the root which provides stability, the third that which provides the mood, and the fifth which provides clarity), there are three primary chords of major quality (in which the second and third primary chords want to resolve back to the first). Our God is an awesome God!
I love your post though I don’t read music and haven’t a real clue. That said, I could just tell that there was some relationship between math and music. I just didn’t understand how and why but it seemed logical. Our God really is so awesome and there is order in everything He does.
Western 12 tone equal temperament there 7 notes - if you don't count # & b. But not all scales use 7 notes - e.g Pentatonic, which has 5 notes. Not all musicians in the world use 12 tone equal temperament, btw! When you say "want to resolve" There is nothing intrinsic there, it's just human perception/appreciation of those preferred intervals. A given note is just vibration at a specific frequency. I think you're credulity is leading you into motivated reasoning.
@@PianoDentist I am only passingly on what is known as a general music theory. This is not of my own mind. All that music theory does is show you how music works naturally. So, I am not being fanatical, just showing how music reflects the creator of all things. I'm sure that you would appreciate and give honor to another human being for their art and music. How much more so does the creator of all beauty And sound deserve to receive honor and glory? He deserves all the glory
@@reidveryan9414 Did you read my post? I corrected you on your claims about music theory, which are misleading and anthropomorphized. Please provide evidence of your claim that "music reflects the creator of all things".
@@PianoDentistI'm nit a musician--but isn't it interesting that we can't make a new note? We can only rearrange them in innumerable ways. Same with art--can't create a new color. Almost like we are programmed with basic info and can be completely creative with it, but can't go beyond the pre-programmed parameters. Wonder how that happened?
This is something my 7th grade students get pretty easily. Math (and objective truth) does not depend on our belief nor understanding. Math is. We did not create the rules, but discovered them through trial and error. It's comforting to know. ❤
Math is as much a belief as Buddhism is. Why do you think it's not? Look at geometry. Do you think points and lines led to triangles and squares and, inevitably, angles? We have geometry fully evolved in Euclid and Pythagoras and others. Where were the proto geometrists? The apostles evangelizing a mathematical but non-geometric world? Do you really think geometry and math came to the Greeks fully formed? The Egyptians and Mesopotamians had no prior knowledge? If math was discovered, like Christianity, then who was the mathematical Jesus? From which civilization's traditions did it come? For as we know mathematics was independently discovered by the Indians and South American cultures as well.
@@kallianpublico7517 Um, no, it's discovered like the Americas were discovered. Those math systems were independent but still work mathematically, I'm not sure what point your even trying to make. It's a different science than philosophy.
@@DoubleOhSilver Happy to disillusion you. The "Americas" are empirical. They're discovered by consciousness: the senses. The discoveries of math are covered by logical systems: assumptions, rules and if,then processes. They require indoctrination and memorization and repetitive reapplication. You don't need memory to discover the America's, you just need eyes. Math is a logical system that falls under the philosophic definition called coherentism. Coherentism has several manifestations. Chief among them are language, math, games and any other field requiring logic. Unlike consciousness which has its foundation in sense impressions, coherentism has its foundations in axioms - unprovable assertions. The things of consciousness are "self-evident", the things of coherentism are impositions. Things like points and lines and angles are impositions. The sun 🌞 and trees are self-evident: they are revealed to the senses but are independent of your personal senses. Points and lines have to be indoctrinated into you by teachers who "draw" them. Just as numbers and letters are. After all, when was the last time you saw the "number" zero walking down the street? Under a microscope? Never. The "existence" of the number zero has to be TAUGHT, it is never discovered- exposed. It is always imposed.
Well, the fact is that 90% of people working with science on a higher level are actually atheists. So you are indeed an outlier, that's IF you then ever studied science on a higher level.
We study the world around us in order to appreciate God's creation. We have to admit that we don't know everything, and never will, but that shouldn't ever stop us, because it can have the affect it had on you. It's all to great, to amazing and intelligent to have happened without a creator.
It’s so true. When I was a little girl math is the first areas I started to see and understand God and it grew as I learned more about the subject, it’s so sweet.
8 billion people with a different thumb print, 8 billion people with a different eye print, 8 billion people with a different DNA print, that's NOT BY CHANCE
or maybe thats just how it could happen its the only possible way that things could have happened,it’s how one thing lead to another.There might be a physical rule that made it so that's the only way these constants could be.Another one is placing everything on the chance,making this argument invalid. argument by Brandon CHen
I personally think God tones it down just enough so we can get a taste of him. Thats what Jesus and the holy spirit are all about. A small taste of God. If our brains truly knew God, our brains would ooze out of our ears.
@@mistypedhi yes. Even that, like in Moses case caused Moses to come down from the mountain looking totally different. And I still think that was just a taste of God's power.
@@Jonas-gl9ke the universe itself. The fine tuning of the universe has been calculated to something like 10 to the power of 60. And that's by skeptics and believing physicists alike. The perfect parameters for life to exist the way it does defies human comprehension. Though we do try to put a figure on it.
@@AndrewsArt78 1. Non sequitur. It does not follow that because you believe the universe is fine tuned that, “our brains would ooze out of our ears” if “our brains truly knew God”. 2. If the parameters of our universe were different, it is possible that another life form would exist. This is the anthropic principle. As Douglas Adams would say, “This is rather as if you imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in - an interesting hole I find myself in - fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!'
"He who thinks half-heartedly will not believe in God; but he who really thinks has to believe in God." - Isaac Newton Strange how people don't talk about Newton much when it comes to God, yet I realize newton didn't believe in the church.
This is a really simple conclusion to reach when you are first discovering physics and calculus, and you are culturally surrounded by a leading, singular theology. Thankfully, we live in a society that has progressed past the need for simple, lazy explanations. Science and math are still beautiful and complex, but it is a huge jump in logic to say “this was all created by the god I believe in.” It is also a logical leap to say “this wasn’t created,” but anyone who truly cares about seeking knowledge will tell you they don’t have an absolute answer to the meaning of it all. Edit: also, Christians surrounding him hated newton.
@@bigweathertruther6373 your final comment on your position is where the laziness is; the logical jump. Science tells us that all of this universe absolutely began to exist. "Existent" THINGS are natural and contingent. All existent things rely upon matter, energy, space and time. Outside of these, there is no evidence of any THING. All four critical elements/features came into existence together and function together. No contingent or natural THING would be possible as the cause of our universe. Something has to be able to operate outside of those four things, and therefore can't be natural, as we understand our universe to be. That gets you to at least Einstein's God. There is no evidence or reason to believe anything can come from nothingness, and things can't make themselves, period. John Lennox, William Lane Craig and Stephen Meyer talks about this simple matter. Math and logic are conceptual in nature. All concepts are accessed only by the mind. Math and logic don't rely on nature, but we have only nature to apply them to. As concepts of the mental domain, Stephen Meyer rightly asks the question: "in whose mind did these concepts originate?" We have a world with a very clear moral inclination. This isn't an evolutionary feature and we haven't evolved away from morals in the supposedly blind evolutionary processes that materialist talk about, though they have no dog in the moral fight. A moral world is a nuanced world, with nothing about its morality necessitated or validated by materials alone. Materials also don't make minds, but minds certainly conceptualise and fashion materials. Our minds weren't here before us, according the absence of any reason to believe that, and we have extensively conceptualised and fashioned materials with clear order and functionality. Design/order and intelligibility can't come from nothingness. That's nonsensical and illogical. It is logical to think an orderly and functional anything had to be conceptualised and fashioned by a mind. As far as a God is concerned, we will certainly find out which one is real, eventually, but of course a Christian would say a God that shows an interest and mastery of orderliness, with a demonstrated ability to refresh and end processes in favour of success.
Everything around us is Alive, n We are All connected in so many ways that most don't want to open their minds n see thing's more Clearly, sadly people fear what they don't/want to understand.. Godspeed to us All here on this Planet n Beyond my Friend's. 💙
Please be aware that this is a con job. Concepts are abstracts of our brains and not "things" that are located in our brains. The video even says it. They are not material so they can't be located anywhere, much less in God's brain. A brain, by the way, that we have no reason to believe even exists.
Stephen Myer is smooth talking and speaks with a veneer of authority, but he's absolutely clueless and/or dishonest about the science he touts about in his books, including paleontology and genetics.
More so, the language that humans use to fit reality into our brains. We have to break things down into tiny pieces and brutally examine reality to make accurate calculations. Is that divine? Or is that simply the way we have chosen to understand it? I would not say math is divine. What math describes would be divine. No manly invention should be compared to divinity.
Dr. Francis Collins believed it was DNA but I can also appreciate what your Professor was saying. I believe it was Bill Craig who I first heard talking about mathematics as being proof of God. To listen to super genius and old Irish grandfather, John Lennox defend the faith is to hear wisdom that is so simple yet so deep. Shalom
@@awoods23234 what is your definition of divine? If it's something supernatural, how can you demonstrate that? We have no way to measure the divine, so obviously it can't compare to the natural world.
The ones who will not understand this and react with ungrateful murmuring are the ones who's ear have been closed as well as their eyes and hearts which they themselves have hardened. But those who do understand "...blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear;" (Matthew 13:15-16). All Glory goes to God for revealing to us this wonder.
Summun bukmun AAumyun fahum la yarjiAAoon, meaning Deaf, dumb and blind - so they will not return [to the right path]. Quran: Surah Al-Baqarah , verse 18.
the quran establishes The Word of God (Bible) in surah 2:87, surah 5:44, surah 4:163, surah 3:3, surah 5:46, Surah 10:94-95; 16:43 AND says The Word of God (Bible) CANNOT be altered in surah 6:34, surah 6:115, surah 10:64. So the quran affirms The Bible is true and incorruptible, or in other words, unchangeable. If that is true, then for muslims The Bible is true, but if The Bible is true then islam is false. The quran is contradictory. God's Word (Bible) still stands. (Matthew 24:35) "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away." Repent from islam and turn to Jesus Christ who is the ONLY Way, The ONLY Truth, and The ONLY Life to Eternal Life and no one can have it except through Him ONLY. (John 14:6) "Jesus said to him, “I am The Way, The Truth, and The Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."@@syedasalma6410
This is not talking about the Abrahamic God. This is literal blasphemy according to the Bible. Although I agree, this is the real God. Not the doctrinal man made God in the bible
As a scientist (biochemistry) and future physician, I love seeing the brilliance of God in all creation- from the microscopic to the macroscopic! Dr. Stephen Meyer, Dr. Hugh Ross, Dr. James Tour, Dr. Michael Behe, Dr. John Lennox, are my favorite scientists/Christian apologists!
@@skepticalobserver7484atheists are often the most radical defenders of their belief. They zealously believe that God does not exist and everything came about from randomness.
If we didn't create math. If a physical material mind did not create math, then how did we find this language of codes and numbers to guide and help us to understand this physical world? It all leads to an immaterial mind that is so far beyond and independent of us that it only could be such an advanced Creator that we cannot fully comprehend.
There is, and never will be, a point. When you're an indoctrinated drone like these clowns, you believe everything you're told. The critical thinking faculty has been brainwashed out of them.
As we are in the "latter days" now, I can see how God's Holy Spirit is revealing to scientists/mathematicians and others, that He does exist. It's just a matter of accepting Truth or not.
@EmtnlDmg99 More silver spoon and platter raised replies from the mind of a 10 year old... Ecclesiastes 7:6 "For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, so is the laughter of the fool: this also is vanity."
@@RemnantDiscipleLazzaro-Rev1217you’re so silly Every Christian starting with THE APOSTLES believed they were in the “latter days”, yet here we are. A couple thousand years of people thinking the end is near, and it’s never been.
All these people can't realize that math did not invent itself. Effect points to a cause. Does anyone have a better cause then nothing made it? God is the best answer. Where did the laws of logic, and the laws of physics and math come ftom? And why do they work well together?
I'm not sure exactly what the claim is with regard to maths. What could have been different? Could 1+1 have equalled 3? If so, what would the world have looked like if that was the case? If we put one thing and another thing together, would a third have appeared? Would it have made just as much sense that way? If the rules could have been made randomly, then I don't think this points to an intelligent designer, they could have just been random. Or does it only make sense the way it is? In that case, I don't think this points to a designer either, they had to be that way.
@wms72 Don't be fooled. You are playing fast and loose with the word "law". The scientific "laws" are descriptive not prescriptive. No one prescribed them. It just explains what we discover. That is all. There are "laws " that humans make to order our society and those are prescribed by us. Please make sure you understand the different usages of words.
@@thefinerbs7157 Perhaps the person who with zero actual evidence, and mountains of resultant absurdities, believes fervently in a useless invisible friend?
@@thefinerbs7157 I’d have to say your comment actually illuminates one of the most blatant absurdities in the story. What kind of god would create a person with a rational logical mind, and then punish them in horrible torture, not for a week, or a month, or a trillion centuries, but for ETERNITY because they failed to believe ridiculous assertions based on flimsy or no evidence at all. For another example, where did Cains wife come from? I could go on, and on, and on ….
This is so true . As a carpenter , carpenters use Pythagorean 's Theory to square up walls , you can also do the same by pulling diagonal measurements from corner to corner , when both measurements are equal , your wall , slab , rough openings are exactly SQUARE or EQUAL . Then there is DNA ....
I had an interesting conversation with a coworker who considers himself a “poetic naturalist,” meaning he believes everything has a natural cause and explanation, but that he wishes to retain a “poetic” appreciation and wonder for nature. He’s big into science and was going on about entropy, talking about how there is no essential order in the cosmos because everything is tending toward disorder. I had to point out to him that even if order tends to decrease in a system, the fact that it does so consistently and reliably indicates that even this tendency toward disorder is occurring in an orderly manner. No matter how you slice it, God’s handiwork is evident everywhere one looks with a humble heart.
entropy increases except where there is life, life is creation utilizing entropy to arrange growth. God is another word for creation...the creator whom newton wrote about in the general scholium to principia mathematica.
Maths and the ideas behind what you're saying (metaphysical idealism, and platonism) litterally brought me to God in some sense. Not the precise christian God, but i'm for sure WAY more religious than most people.
Ummm, no. Stephen Meyer's argument about the Cambrian Explosion resulting in new forms of life with no predecessor animals has been proven false, so no, this argument for Intelligent Design fails.
@@jkorlingoh love the Cambrian!... have you read 'beautiful life' by Stephen Jay Gould?... well, it's about the burgess shale I guess... 'the ancestors tale '... Dawkins is awesome too.
@EmtnlDmg99 I'm not religious. It was a place u could describe as heaven. I don't think there is a hell. I believe we all go back to this loving place, possibly even Hitler, possibly all of us.
@EmtnlDmg99That’s also not what God says- it’s what weird humans make up about God that says that… God is love- LOVE is God. Truth saves… truth is the only WAY TO LOVE…. Church doctrine isn’t biblical usually. Read it without any man made BS doctrine- just see what it REALLy says maybe.❤
@@bigwill7097 I honestly don't know what or where I was but I wasn't human. I floated from my body. Felt like I was lying on a table with entities telepathically telling me I wasn't ready to be there. At one point a big bright light shimmering in front of me appears and it felt emotionally and physically pure love and joy it's what could be described as a heavenly place. I then felt like I fell back into my body on earth as i was me again.
It's common sense. I've been aware of this concept all of my life. I myself am not a math genius, but it's not a leap to comprehend that those who are, are not creating the math. They are discovering it, not creating it. As GOD is, math is also.
@penewoldahh ok, so scientists discovered what water is made of. Hydrogen and oxygen. Did they create the water because they discovered the ingredients? Did they create hydrogen and oxygen? Nope. We can go all day discussing what God created that we've only discovered.
@penewoldahh wow! You really got me. Actually, H2O is absolutely a math equation. Everything in nature is equated to math. We as humans can show examples of this, but it's not a creation. As humans, we're intelligent enough to discover and be aware of so much. Math just is just as 1 apple + 2 apples = 3 apples. You can come up with different words to use, we as humans created our language, but you can't change the math itself cause it's a natural source of creation. You can manipulate things with math, but you can't manipulate the math itself.
What does a Christian God have to do with the God being discussed in the video? Bible is a human book with contradictions, with a God who sanctioned slavery and genocide among other things. And had to kill his son Jesus before he could forgive. Is this the highest being in the Universe? If so, we are all doomed, because he doesn't appear to be very reasonable.
@@user-el3rk6os3pyou seem like you don’t understand the foundation of God in scripture do you want some clarification of Yahweh The eternal God who created you ?
@@anthonykurczewski8384 am I ignorant? Or does the Bible call for killings of women and children of Israel’s enemy? Except, they could keep the virgins for themselves. Clearly this “God” is a creation of ancient Israel, other people no doubt created similar Gods for themselves.
41:53 سَنُرِيهِمْ ءَايَـٰتِنَا فِى ٱلْـَٔافَاقِ وَفِىٓ أَنفُسِهِمْ حَتَّىٰ يَتَبَيَّنَ لَهُمْ أَنَّهُ ٱلْحَقُّ ۗ أَوَلَمْ يَكْفِ بِرَبِّكَ أَنَّهُۥ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَىْءٍۢ شَهِيدٌ ٥٣ We will show them Our signs in the universe and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that this ˹Quran˺ is the truth. Is it not enough that your Lord is a Witness over all things? - Dr. Mustafa Khattab, The Clear Quran
You can say that the relationships between the sides and angles of a triangle are discovered, but math is the human invented tool to describe the regularities of nature, just like how English is also a human-invented language used to describe nature.
@@garrettkuracka2277bit condescending mate. He’s right: ‘math’ is a human concept which enables us to describe the universe. If we weren’t here, ‘math’ wouldn’t exist as we know it. If we were four dimensional beings, our ‘math’ would be different to the form we know. In fact, the ‘math’ utilised for the study of quantum phenomena IS different to the standard form used in classical physics. But it’s still a human attempt at description. Just because someone suggests a theory doesn’t make it true. Maybe, this is all MY dream and you are a figment of my imagination. Prove or disprove that.
@ConservativeMirror I guess it's better to say that the relationships and sides of an angle and triangle discovered in Nature and expressed mathematically imply an Immaterial Mind or Theism(God)... peace and love, yishmirai
@garrettkuracka2277 he was outlining the similarities of the two thing as tools we created, not saying they are the same. You are the idiot here, champion.
I have said this for YEARS. I am a Christian, and I also went state in Math snd loved Science growing up. (I preferred experiments or a good math session over sports). Science and Math advances are DISCOVERING what has always been there, not creating. With the countless numbers of ordered, structured formulas all around us, the logical explanation is that it was all created by intelligence, NOT created by Chaos.. The same way, without proof, we can conclude things were created by someone rather than randomly (which is EVIDENCE. Evidence and proof are not equal). Example: Imagine you KNOW there is mayo, lettuce, tomato, bread and Turkey on the table, all in the package is came in. You walk back into the room, and there is a sandwich perfectly made with the perfect amount of each ingredient. Even though you have no “Proof” that someone made this sandwich rather than it being created naturally, you know that someone made the sandwich. Even though you did not see anybody, and even if you never see them, hear them, or find ANY other proof that someone exists in that house, the evidence points to that sandwich being created, and nobody would say “since there is no proof, it must have been made naturally “. The same applies to the world around us.
somehow related humans start thinking they made themselves like "I am GOD". As the devil wanted to be GOD and the child of the devil (man of sin / son of perdition) will be: 2Th 2:4 He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god and object of worship. As a result, he seats himself in the sanctuary of God and himself declares that he is God. If there is no GOD they can declare themselves GOD. They made themselves. Joh 1:1 In the beginning, the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. Joh 1:2 He existed in the beginning with God. Joh 1:3 Through him all things were made, and apart from him nothing was made that has been made. Joh 1:4 In him was life, and that life brought light to humanity.
@@ericmanget4280 Eric you need to get off the internet and surround yourself with ideas that challenge your own views. There's no clones of human you silly billy
it chills my blood , and , it is terrifying to read the comments of people who "come against" this with any response that is at least coherent and understandable , has some form of logic or reason , I can see what it means for them to be blind and why they reject God , they simply are desperate for him not to exist for personal reasons including the love of sin . It is insane to think they believe math can simply exist on its own , and even worse , some think there is intelligent responses to support it .
All people are evil people. There is no one good. We are declared righteous by placing faith in Jesus who died for your sins. The only unpardonable sin is rejecting Jesus. All humanity deserves to go to Hell for our sin. God doesn’t want you to go to Hell. Accept the free gift of eternal life, by grace, through faith in Jesus.
This is my experience too. It’s why Einstein and Newton were Christians. What’s amazing is that math is constructed from the laws of God and are discovered not artificially created.
If THIS doesn't cure the doubting Thomas within me, I'm in real trouble!!! Finally, using the description, "mind blowing" is no exaggeration!!! Subed, thanks ...This lit me on 🔥
That is why most mathematicians are either anti-realists or Neo Platonists. For me and my house, the Platonic ideals reside in the mind of God. Nuff said.
@@fibonacimike4110 Lastly, Stewart Shapiro’s book “Thinking about Mathematics: The Philosophy of Mathematics” I would argue … does a rather wonderful job of framing the issue.
@@josephpmitchell8394 so it collect a large random sample of all mathematicians or did they collect data on every mathematician in the world to come to that conclusion?
That is definitely true even to god. Why does god exist rather than nothing if he does and what governed his will to create everything this way? Anything you think of that is the next deepest thing, you can just ask it to that next thing.
Gods consciousness is in us all, this is why we can connect and work together with people from other parts of the world even if we don't speak the same language. This is why we can connect and work together with animals, even thou we don't speak the same language. Because we all have Gods consciousness in us, that is based on logic and order and directing us towards common goals and ultimately expand Gods agenda. Now to make everything more interesting, we have another strong force, that adds chaos and destruction into the equation, but that's another talk for another day.
Show me the mathematical proof of good or evil. For that matter, show me the mathematical proof of gravity; Newton had a theory, Einstein had a completely different theory. Nobody has yet proven what gravity is. What is the speed of light? Einstein said in his 1905 paper and his 1920 paper that we could not measure the speed of light; we couldn’t, we can’t, we don’t know.
@@denvan3143 A theory in a scientific sense is literally the best explanation we have. You're right to say that we have a theory of gravity, but wrong in your assumption of what that means. Newton's work was foundational to Einstein's, and Einstein's work was foundational to Hawking's. Hawking's work was more complicated, sure, but not truly different from Newton's. Now that math-able stuff is out of the way, we need to talk philosophy. Because that's where you're going to define, find, and measure good and evil.
When God is the explanation for everything remarkable, it’s easy to be a theist. But principles exist independently of anyone’s mind, including the mind of God.
Exactly, I can't believe how much scrolling it took to find someone who gets it. The Pythagorean Theorem would be true even if no one, including God, existed to think of it.
It's true he didn't really explain why these principles need to exist in a mind. Rather, he should have mentioned this: Principles are non-physical, and if they exist indepentently of our minds, they must exist in a non-physical realm. Thus, metaphysics must be true. There are arguments that principles/concepts must exist in what could best be described as "God's mind", but he doesn't mention any of those arguments.
He basically said "it doesn't exist in our reality, therefore god" I swear religious people stretch their arguments so much I'm surprised nothing has ripped
I find your comment ironic since there is no explanation for the nothing created something "gap". We've never observed gasses becoming something. Besides, where did the gasses come from? A supposed simple 1 celled amoeba has enough DNA information to fill 1,000 Encyclopedias. There is no such thing as a simple organism. The big bang discovery really destroys atheists' religion. There's 2 options. Something outside of time, space, and matter had to have created time space and matter or absolutely nothing created time space and matter. Both require faith, which is more reasonable?
@@deanmartenYour argument, while it dances with poetic license around the mysteries of our universe, fundamentally misunderstands both the nature of scientific inquiry and the concept of atheism. Let's dismantle this, shall we? Firstly, the "nothing created something" trope is a misrepresentation of scientific theories on the origins of the universe. Scientists do not claim that "nothing" spontaneously birthed "something." Rather, the Big Bang theory describes the rapid expansion of matter from a state of extremely high density and temperature. The origins of the singularity itself remain a topic of inquiry and speculation, but this in no way necessitates a divine creator. To assert so is to commit to an argument from ignorance: "I don't understand it, therefore God." Your statement that "we've never observed gases becoming something" betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of chemical and biological processes. The formation of stars from hydrogen gas, the synthesis of complex organic molecules from simpler compounds, and the evolution of life from simple to complex organisms are well-documented phenomena, governed by natural laws rather than divine intervention. The complexity of a single-celled amoeba's DNA is indeed marvelous, but it does not imply design. Complexity can arise from natural processes; evolution by natural selection is a well-supported mechanism by which simple organisms can evolve into more complex forms over billions of years. The argument from complexity is an old one, refuted by both the fossil record and genetic evidence. As for the Big Bang being the death knell for atheism, this is a curious conclusion. The discovery of the Big Bang provided evidence for the beginning of the universe as we know it, but it does not provide evidence for a deity. If anything, it removes the need for a God to kickstart the universe, as it describes a natural process. The false dichotomy you present between a deity creating the universe and "absolutely nothing" doing so is a flawed argument. It presupposes that the only logical explanation for the existence of the universe is a divine creator. This ignores other possibilities that are being explored in physics and cosmology, such as quantum fluctuations or multiverse theories. Finally, the assertion that both positions require faith is misleading. Faith, in the religious sense, is belief without evidence. Science, on the other hand, relies on evidence and the scientific method. Where evidence is lacking, science seeks to investigate, not to leap to supernatural conclusions. In closing, the more reasonable position is not to assert the existence of things for which there is no evidence. Rather, it is to pursue understanding through observation, experimentation, and critical thinking. The universe is under no obligation to make sense to us, and our lack of understanding does not necessitate a divine creator. It necessitates further inquiry.
Yes that’s crazy to think that we will be hold for our actions when we die. Crazy to think that there are consequences to our actions. Or is that reality and part of maturity? Hmm meaningless or meaningful life ?
@@paulorobertosilva8794 When we die we are dead. There are consequences for actions in life with or without believing in a fake god. You don't need fear of a god or the existence of one to love people, have meaning in life and have morals. It causes way more harm than good, more hate and killing than love. Religion is a disease / mental illness.
Ive been giving that argument for a while now. That same argument applies to moral/ethics, universals, truth, intelligibility, logic, reason, any and all physics and metaphysics. I use these arguments to refute atheism, debunk it and expose the atheist absurdity!
@@123telamon it can only be the Christian God who is triune, and intelligibility can only derive from the triune, which is demonstrsted via the philosophy of the 1 and the many.
@@123telamon apart from the triune nature, the Christian God is the only God the posseses all the necessary preconditions for intelligibility. No other god including the god of islam which is easily proven.
The reason why (a lot of) humans think the universe was created is that this is what humans do, create, and humans LOVE to be the measure of everything. They tend to think they are the center of the universe anyway. Even if there was something that created the universe, it could be a law, as mathematical laws, that might be eternal. Nowhere in this train of thought is a hint of a creating mind having to be involved necessarily. But it has always been that way. There is probably somebody in the sky throwing lightning around or rolling the sun across the sky. It bears the same logic as a dog thinking a rabbit has been barked into existence.
Without humans, there is no math and there are no equations. Math is made by humans as a tool. 0 did not exist for the Romans, and was introduced later. Integer numbers, rational numbers, irrational numbers, complex numbers: all introduced by humans. (-1)*(-1)=1 is not god given, it is defined by man. Same for 0!=1, defined by man. You could have defined different, but we decided it to do it this way. So please do not say that math does exist without humans.
(Romans 1:20) - “For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.”
When I look at something like the shell of a nautilus and I see the fibonacci sequence I have to ask "how can anyone deny God"? He has a plan. He is order. He is infinite. All of this is necessary for math. And all of His plans are of ethereal beauty. We try to make God like us and we have a strong tendency to forget that we are made in His likeness. Not the same as Him but in His likeness. His reality is endless. Our reality has limits. He is a mindblowingly omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent being. We are not. Be blessed. 🙏✝️❤
For me, science and math is God's magic and miracles. That's how we could understand what's going on like how we can create fire because there's oxygen
😂😂Math is a tool we invented and use to describe things. Math does not exist anywhere else except in human minds. To say it just exists out there is an ignorant religious assumption. This is a classic example of christian pseudo science where believers start with a conclusion and make the evidence fit.
The symbols and methods of mathematics are human inventions, but the truths and principles it uncovers about the universe are discoveries. This dual nature is what makes mathematics uniquely powerful as a tool for understanding the world.
@@DaBenzo923 They aren't 'truths' the way religious minded people want them to be. The universe runs the way it does, but we use our invented math to describe it. Jumping to a god conclusion based on a belief is just wishful thinking and very counter intuitive for anyone that understands math.
I doubt the atheist perfectly refuted the claims of this guy. Since they can't really refute anything that has to do with Christianity. That book also has a name.
Blows my mind how the most intellectual minds take the longest possible route to get from A to B. My Dad taught me that sometimes intelligence, like 4 wheel drive, helps you get stuck in an even more remote location.
I love this. This is something that I've thought about when looking at the manifestation of fractal mathematics and patterns in our observable universe. For example, the branching fractals of tree branches are similar to our veins, which is similar to the trajectories of galaxies over time. Math manifests in our universe whether or not we are aware of/discovered it. Therefore, math must exist before the universe in order to give it the laws by which it must adhere to. Also, I wish I paid better attention in math class.
The majority of universities in the west, and anywhere around the world were started by Christians, namely Monks. Can you name at least five major universities near you that started by an Atheist? Even better can you name at least two major hospitals near you that started by an Atheist? Yes, it was the Christians pursuit of medical care for the poor and the downtrodden and Christian scientists like Isaac Newton and more who actually expanded our knowledge of science.
It was the Christians, namely monks who started major universes in the west. Can you name at least five major universities near you started by an Atheist? Even better. Can you name at least two major hospitals near you started by an atheist? It was the Christian's pursuit of medicine to care for the poor and the downtrodden that leads to the advancement of medicine and development of universities and in our knowledge of science. Christian scientists like Isaac Newton and many more...
I think they absolutely should go together because of what you just demonstrated. Science is about exploring the unknown, not about making ignorant assertions about it.
Not even close, because the universe lines up so perfectly and the math is so perfect it points to a creator because the possibility that it happened by accident is statistically impossible
@@BGTournaments lucky dependent on the chances of this reality being a thing is a big statement bro! i appreciate we all have our perspectives but i think there is value in there being an objective reference point to which enjoying the life we have been given tends to something more. Blessings!
Nah man, you just aren't a philosopher or mathematician. There are distinctions that are capable of being made, and are legitimate and real, between something like wheat, and a mathematical object. Laypeople like us do not dwell in that sphere of work, concepts language, thought, etc. And so we misunderstand or do not fully grasp arguments like this, sometimes. It's a genuine, valid, reasonable and logical premise and hypothesis.
I see certain numbers a lot on clocks and other places...... 333, 9.11, 11.11, 12.12, 17.17 and many more. I believe God communicates with us through numbers and I find it fascinating 🙏
If you don´t know, *The Bible is codified with advanced mathematical patterns known as GEMATRIA.* Find out what has to do the number 73 with the Bible and how this number is UNIQUE in mathematics. To my knowledge, the number 73 represents de Holy Father YHWH and the number 37 represents de Son Yeshua (Jesus). *Numeric patterns of 37 and 73 in the Bible* ruclips.net/video/G7uU3nJ5aAU/видео.htmlsi=0Ti6QxRsncIMVHjc
What do you think science is. What do you think laws are too follow? If we go with the we came from nothing argument. Then we go back to nothing. So why follow laws. Just do as you want. Chaos and anarchy will soon follow
Mathematics is conceptual meaning it exists in the mind and because math exists independent of our minds then it must exist in a supernatural (above or beyond natural) mind. That’s the argument.
@AndrewJosephKeith they are only conceptual subjectively. If every human ceased to exist (and arguably some other animals)- maths would cease to exist. Two plus two is only four if there is someone to observe that.
@AndrewJosephKeith you realize that you contradicted yourself, right? You first say math exists in the mind then say it exists outside the mind. So which one is it? And since we're at it, what evidence do we have that a mind can exist minus a physical brain?
@everybodygetalong Yet I'd argue the laws of logic, which is what math derives from, has no reason not to apply regardless of whether we or other thinking minds exist or not. If there are two trees on an island and suddenly all minds were wiped off the face of the earth or even the entire universe, it doesn't follow from that that the quantitative quality of those trees on that we label as "two" would therfore cease to exist. Just like with the laws of identity, a rock, I'd argue, would still be rock and not a non-rock if minds were absent. The label "rock" we applied to it would be absent, but it still would be what it is and not what it isn't.
After seeing a magic trick, you know it isn’t “magic.” You understand that there is a logical explanation that explains the trick although you lack the knowledge and imagination to figure it out. Even though you don’t understand how the trick works, you know for sure that “magic” isn’t the explanation. Same thing for how the universe works. Most humans cannot grasp the beautiful complexity of the universe and how it came to be, so they default to “magic” or “god.”
The thing about God is that he's Love. Very faithful and understanding. We will always remain hungry and thirsty for Him . God why so Good❤ I love you so much despite my sinful nature.
Mind blowing? To a believer, everything points to God. It’s nonsense. Leaves are green, proof of god. Gets tiresome. The reason you all need proof and arguments and science to confirm your faith is because you know it’s as stupid as Paul describes it.
So you telling me with your human intelligence you deny the fact that the universe has some form of natural design that has visible limits and boundaries and don’t question who or what set this limit It couldn’t be nothing 🤷🏾♂️
@@shuzuma299 If the universe operates according to predictable and consistent laws, then any event that violates natural law, such as a miracle, cannot occur. Therefore, if a miracle is claimed to have occurred, it must be either a misunderstanding or a deliberate deception.
We humans have invented nothing, but have discovered many things and applied them to life and technology. Atheists will say “you have invented God” and again, no, we have discovered Him through His creation.
I agree with the conclusion, but I'm not quite convinced about this particular path of reasoning by which the conclusion was achieved. My understanding is that math isn't a world, but rather math is a system for drawing as many conclusions as possible from input premises. If you know a set of ideas with certainty, then math lets you multiply it into many more ideas that you can know with 100% certainty. I might be wrong though, feel free to explain if you feel like you can convince me otherwise.
Math is physical and material thought impulses coming from our brain. We invented math in order to explain things that are conceptually inherent to it.
In the sciences theres also the observer effect. This phenomenon in which the act of observation alters the behavior of the particles being observed. This effect is due to the wave-like nature of matter, which means that particles can exist in multiple states simultaneously.
Finally they are starting to catch on .. a simple example of this would be the numerical scale from 1-9 or the musical scale or many other foundational gradients that make up the entire material reality
Spiritual and spirit is energy that can't be created or destroyed. Energy like water can manifest in different forms. Example *water=liquid *ice= solid *steam=gas Energy goes back to the master like a boomerang always fluid and in motion.
David Berlinski is an awesome writer. I read his book a tour of the calculus. And it is really interesting. I got more from that book than I did any of my professors.
As soon as they talk about what mathematicians "believe" you know these people don't know what they're talking about. Mathematicians are about what you can prove.
Man invented maths. If you went up to an alien and expected them to understand it, they would struggle to grasp it, because they wouldn't have been brought up with an understanding of it. The patterns and structures of maths were fabricated over thousands of years for a purpose, just as calendars and 'time', were conceived to provide structure and a foundation on which to learn, create and build. Man-made concepts like this are one of the reasons we struggle to cope with the infiniteness of the universe and time - because we are so hung up on these concepts combined with our ephemeral nature that we cannot conceive of something not having a beginning despite their being no actual reason to the contrary. It's why we also invented Gods.
Bro was so proud he remembered the Pythagorean Theorem, he couldn't get it out fast enough.
😂
Dumbo 101.
Did you know that no flat triangle can ever have more than 1 right-angled corner?
And did you know that if you copy any flat right-angled-triangle, rotate the copy through 180 degrees and join the two triangles together along the longest side, you will always get a shape where *every* corner is a right angle?! Not only that, if you then measure half-way along either of the two pairs of opposite sides of that shape, and cut along the line between those points, you will always get *identical twin* shapes where every corner is a right angle.
Mind blown!
@@marksnow7569😆
@@marksnow7569Did you know that rectangles are delicious? The famous philosopher Patrick Star said so.
As a scientist, I can only say, all sciences points to God. To me, Molecular Biology, Biochemistry, and Genetics, made me realize there was a creator or a designer. I didn't tag it with any religion, nor any "god" on earth. So I wanted to look for the truth and explored all religions I possibly could. >+ 10 years later, I ended up being found by the truth, the way, and the life, which is Jesus Christ.
Exactly zero sciences point to god, when all logical fallacies are removed.
Amen, bro
I have a masters in microbiology/cellular biology. I haven't seen anything that would warrant belief in God. You're argument is going to be something along the lines of, the chances are too low to happen naturally, or it's too complicated to happen naturally. That's a blatant argument from ignorance. I can't explain this, therfore God.
I'd like to ask. Of all the times we didn't understand a natural occurrence but later did, how many times has the answer been god? The answer is zero. As an example, the tides were once thought of as irrefutable proof of the divine. They came in and out in a predictable way, and there was no mechanism to explain it. That was, until a few hundred years later and we realize it is the moons gravity pulling on the oceans. NEVER have we not understood something, later did, and the answer been god. Not once. So, why would I assume the answer will be god on the subjects you've brought up, when that's never happened a single time?
Amen brother, praise His holy name.
damn thats crazy and so believble
God is a God of order. He numbered the stars☆☆☆ He knows every hair on our head. Poetry is shorthand for the soul. It draws us out of the physical world and into the spiritual world. Words are imperfect but contain an essence of an idea. Jesus is the Word. Knowing Him helps one to more fully understand life.
That's. Super arbitrary .
@antoniotejera2303 Might be, but it's what I see and feel. In no way must you agree. Draw your own conclusions. Do you agree with poetry or experience it? I see God's order and structure in math and science. It's there for us to discover There is a lot to discover and some things we take on faith until we find we went down the wrong path and try again. It's human nature. How many attempts for Edison to invent the lightbulb? He didn't invent physical properties and laws of nature. He worked with them.
@@Marlena5227 I do like poetry, and I think it is exclusively human and have no reason to think a god,or the soul beyond metalhorical writing, has anything to do with it. I don't know why you do. My favorite poet often wrote about friendship and helping others less fortunate, you could say his writing were a window to how he viewed the world through them. But is not a way to look into his soul or a piece of it beyond figuratively.
@@antoniotejera2303Jesus has everything to do with creation and it's intricacies. Since Jesus is called "The Word" and since Christians believe that He is the creator, it would make since that He is the reason for how Man could be reasonable enough to create Poetry. Since Poetry is something that isn't new but has always been around since the dawn of mankind.
@@lionbolt2136 that's called a non sequitur fallacy. The premise does not logically follow.
Exactly. It's the same with music. There's seven distinct notes in a musical scale (in which all notes want to eventually resolve back to the first note in the scale and there three notes in a chord (the root which provides stability, the third that which provides the mood, and the fifth which provides clarity), there are three primary chords of major quality (in which the second and third primary chords want to resolve back to the first).
Our God is an awesome God!
I love your post though I don’t read music and haven’t a real clue. That said, I could just tell that there was some relationship between math and music. I just didn’t understand how and why but it seemed logical. Our God really is so awesome and there is order in everything He does.
Western 12 tone equal temperament there 7 notes - if you don't count # & b. But not all scales use 7 notes - e.g Pentatonic, which has 5 notes. Not all musicians in the world use 12 tone equal temperament, btw!
When you say "want to resolve" There is nothing intrinsic there, it's just human perception/appreciation of those preferred intervals. A given note is just vibration at a specific frequency. I think you're credulity is leading you into motivated reasoning.
@@PianoDentist I am only passingly on what is known as a general music theory. This is not of my own mind. All that music theory does is show you how music works naturally.
So, I am not being fanatical, just showing how music reflects the creator of all things.
I'm sure that you would appreciate and give honor to another human being for their art and music. How much more so does the creator of all beauty And sound deserve to receive honor and glory? He deserves all the glory
@@reidveryan9414 Did you read my post? I corrected you on your claims about music theory, which are misleading and anthropomorphized.
Please provide evidence of your claim that "music reflects the creator of all things".
@@PianoDentistI'm nit a musician--but isn't it interesting that we can't make a new note? We can only rearrange them in innumerable ways. Same with art--can't create a new color. Almost like we are programmed with basic info and can be completely creative with it, but can't go beyond the pre-programmed parameters. Wonder how that happened?
This is something my 7th grade students get pretty easily. Math (and objective truth) does not depend on our belief nor understanding. Math is. We did not create the rules, but discovered them through trial and error. It's comforting to know. ❤
Math is as much a belief as Buddhism is. Why do you think it's not?
Look at geometry. Do you think points and lines led to triangles and squares and, inevitably, angles? We have geometry fully evolved in Euclid and Pythagoras and others. Where were the proto geometrists? The apostles evangelizing a mathematical but non-geometric world? Do you really think geometry and math came to the Greeks fully formed? The Egyptians and Mesopotamians had no prior knowledge?
If math was discovered, like Christianity, then who was the mathematical Jesus? From which civilization's traditions did it come? For as we know mathematics was independently discovered by the Indians and South American cultures as well.
@@kallianpublico7517 Um, no, it's discovered like the Americas were discovered. Those math systems were independent but still work mathematically, I'm not sure what point your even trying to make. It's a different science than philosophy.
@@DoubleOhSilver Happy to disillusion you. The "Americas" are empirical. They're discovered by consciousness: the senses. The discoveries of math are covered by logical systems: assumptions, rules and if,then processes. They require indoctrination and memorization and repetitive reapplication. You don't need memory to discover the America's, you just need eyes.
Math is a logical system that falls under the philosophic definition called coherentism. Coherentism has several manifestations. Chief among them are language, math, games and any other field requiring logic.
Unlike consciousness which has its foundation in sense impressions, coherentism has its foundations in axioms - unprovable assertions. The things of consciousness are "self-evident", the things of coherentism are impositions. Things like points and lines and angles are impositions. The sun 🌞 and trees are self-evident: they are revealed to the senses but are independent of your personal senses. Points and lines have to be indoctrinated into you by teachers who "draw" them. Just as numbers and letters are. After all, when was the last time you saw the "number" zero walking down the street? Under a microscope? Never. The "existence" of the number zero has to be TAUGHT, it is never discovered- exposed. It is always imposed.
@@kallianpublico7517math stands independent of belief.
@@kallianpublico7517what’s your point? You just said a bunch of nothing.
Science and Math led me from smug atheism to joyful love of God.
Fool Atheist just have no real clue of Science nor Maths, stuck in their own shallow world
Well, the fact is that 90% of people working with science on a higher level are actually atheists. So you are indeed an outlier, that's IF you then ever studied science on a higher level.
We study the world around us in order to appreciate God's creation. We have to admit that we don't know everything, and never will, but that shouldn't ever stop us, because it can have the affect it had on you. It's all to great, to amazing and intelligent to have happened without a creator.
@@brahtrumpwonbigly7309 Amen.
What specific science/math would that be? And why were you a smug atheist?
It’s so true. When I was a little girl math is the first areas I started to see and understand God and it grew as I learned more about the subject, it’s so sweet.
Can you tell me how the sum of a geometric series points to god?
8 billion people with a different thumb print, 8 billion people with a different eye print, 8 billion people with a different DNA print, that's NOT BY CHANCE
Powerful comment.
or maybe thats just how it could happen its the only possible way that things could have happened,it’s how one thing lead to another.There might be a physical rule that made it so that's the only way these constants could be.Another one is placing everything on the chance,making this argument invalid. argument by Brandon CHen
I personally think God tones it down just enough so we can get a taste of him. Thats what Jesus and the holy spirit are all about. A small taste of God. If our brains truly knew God, our brains would ooze out of our ears.
But didn't he openly communicate with early humans ?
What evidence do you have to support your claim that, “if our brains truly knew God, our brains would ooze out of our ears”?
@@mistypedhi yes. Even that, like in Moses case caused Moses to come down from the mountain looking totally different. And I still think that was just a taste of God's power.
@@Jonas-gl9ke the universe itself. The fine tuning of the universe has been calculated to something like 10 to the power of 60. And that's by skeptics and believing physicists alike. The perfect parameters for life to exist the way it does defies human comprehension. Though we do try to put a figure on it.
@@AndrewsArt78 1. Non sequitur. It does not follow that because you believe the universe is fine tuned that, “our brains would ooze out of our ears” if “our brains truly knew God”.
2. If the parameters of our universe were different, it is possible that another life form would exist. This is the anthropic principle. As Douglas Adams would say, “This is rather as if you imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in - an interesting hole I find myself in - fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!'
"He who thinks half-heartedly will not believe in God; but he who really thinks has to believe in God." - Isaac Newton
Strange how people don't talk about Newton much when it comes to God, yet I realize newton didn't believe in the church.
Only recently have I learned that he's so intensely insightful about God and divine concepts. I'm yet to go deep with him though.
He knew the Trinity was false, but on pain of death he wouldn’t publicly say.
This is a really simple conclusion to reach when you are first discovering physics and calculus, and you are culturally surrounded by a leading, singular theology.
Thankfully, we live in a society that has progressed past the need for simple, lazy explanations. Science and math are still beautiful and complex, but it is a huge jump in logic to say “this was all created by the god I believe in.” It is also a logical leap to say “this wasn’t created,” but anyone who truly cares about seeking knowledge will tell you they don’t have an absolute answer to the meaning of it all.
Edit: also, Christians surrounding him hated newton.
@@bigweathertruther6373 your final comment on your position is where the laziness is; the logical jump.
Science tells us that all of this universe absolutely began to exist. "Existent" THINGS are natural and contingent. All existent things rely upon matter, energy, space and time. Outside of these, there is no evidence of any THING. All four critical elements/features came into existence together and function together. No contingent or natural THING would be possible as the cause of our universe. Something has to be able to operate outside of those four things, and therefore can't be natural, as we understand our universe to be. That gets you to at least Einstein's God. There is no evidence or reason to believe anything can come from nothingness, and things can't make themselves, period. John Lennox, William Lane Craig and Stephen Meyer talks about this simple matter.
Math and logic are conceptual in nature. All concepts are accessed only by the mind. Math and logic don't rely on nature, but we have only nature to apply them to. As concepts of the mental domain, Stephen Meyer rightly asks the question: "in whose mind did these concepts originate?"
We have a world with a very clear moral inclination. This isn't an evolutionary feature and we haven't evolved away from morals in the supposedly blind evolutionary processes that materialist talk about, though they have no dog in the moral fight. A moral world is a nuanced world, with nothing about its morality necessitated or validated by materials alone. Materials also don't make minds, but minds certainly conceptualise and fashion materials. Our minds weren't here before us, according the absence of any reason to believe that, and we have extensively conceptualised and fashioned materials with clear order and functionality. Design/order and intelligibility can't come from nothingness. That's nonsensical and illogical. It is logical to think an orderly and functional anything had to be conceptualised and fashioned by a mind. As far as a God is concerned, we will certainly find out which one is real, eventually, but of course a Christian would say a God that shows an interest and mastery of orderliness, with a demonstrated ability to refresh and end processes in favour of success.
Practically everyone was religious at that time.
Everything around us is Alive, n We are All connected in so many ways that most don't want to open their minds n see thing's more Clearly, sadly people fear what they don't/want to understand..
Godspeed to us All here on this Planet n Beyond my Friend's. 💙
🙏
Praise Jesus!
Steven Meyer is not only brilliant, he is a delight to listen to and so humble.
He is so humble on top of his brilliance, God bless and keep Him sharing Truth
Please be aware that this is a con job. Concepts are abstracts of our brains and not "things" that are located in our brains. The video even says it. They are not material so they can't be located anywhere, much less in God's brain. A brain, by the way, that we have no reason to believe even exists.
Stephen Myer is smooth talking and speaks with a veneer of authority, but he's absolutely clueless and/or dishonest about the science he touts about in his books, including paleontology and genetics.
@@jkorling Can you be more specific, cite an example?
Actually he's not, he talks a lot of shit. Tries to make science fit his creationist worldview.
i had a math professor when I was in college that he always said : math is the language with which God communicates with the world.
RIP professor
More so, the language that humans use to fit reality into our brains. We have to break things down into tiny pieces and brutally examine reality to make accurate calculations. Is that divine? Or is that simply the way we have chosen to understand it? I would not say math is divine. What math describes would be divine. No manly invention should be compared to divinity.
@@awoods23234wow very well said!
@@awoods23234 You missed the whole point. we didn't invent math, we found it, it was here before we were here to observe it.
Dr. Francis Collins believed it was DNA but I can also appreciate what your Professor was saying. I believe it was Bill Craig who I first heard talking about mathematics as being proof of God. To listen to super genius and old Irish grandfather, John Lennox defend the faith is to hear wisdom that is so simple yet so deep. Shalom
@@awoods23234 what is your definition of divine? If it's something supernatural, how can you demonstrate that? We have no way to measure the divine, so obviously it can't compare to the natural world.
The ones who will not understand this and react with ungrateful murmuring are the ones who's ear have been closed as well as their eyes and hearts which they themselves have hardened.
But those who do understand "...blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear;" (Matthew 13:15-16). All Glory goes to God for revealing to us this wonder.
Summun bukmun AAumyun fahum la yarjiAAoon, meaning Deaf, dumb and blind - so they will not return [to the right path].
Quran: Surah Al-Baqarah , verse 18.
the quran establishes The Word of God (Bible) in surah 2:87, surah 5:44, surah 4:163, surah 3:3, surah 5:46, Surah 10:94-95; 16:43 AND says The Word of God (Bible) CANNOT be altered in surah 6:34, surah 6:115, surah 10:64.
So the quran affirms The Bible is true and incorruptible, or in other words, unchangeable. If that is true, then for muslims The Bible is true, but if The Bible is true then islam is false. The quran is contradictory. God's Word (Bible) still stands.
(Matthew 24:35)
"Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away."
Repent from islam and turn to Jesus Christ who is the ONLY Way, The ONLY Truth, and The ONLY Life to Eternal Life and no one can have it except through Him ONLY.
(John 14:6)
"Jesus said to him, “I am The Way, The Truth, and The Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."@@syedasalma6410
Yay he’s wearing a Gonzaga shirt! Am from Spokane so one notices these things. Yes, thankfully God does exist❤️💙
Glory to the Lord Jesus Christ 🙏🏽
Amen.
F off with your false God, Zeus will smite you where you stand!! Worship the true God .
Amen
This is not talking about the Abrahamic God. This is literal blasphemy according to the Bible.
Although I agree, this is the real God. Not the doctrinal man made God in the bible
Glory to Tzeench
As a scientist (biochemistry) and future physician, I love seeing the brilliance of God in all creation- from the microscopic to the macroscopic! Dr. Stephen Meyer, Dr. Hugh Ross, Dr. James Tour, Dr. Michael Behe, Dr. John Lennox, are my favorite scientists/Christian apologists!
Disgraces to actual science.
@@skepticalobserver7484 Nope, they speak the Truth!
@@bryant475 how sad. I hope some day you’ll be willing/able to be intellectually honest.
Check out Dr Jason Lisle
@@skepticalobserver7484atheists are often the most radical defenders of their belief. They zealously believe that God does not exist and everything came about from randomness.
How the holy spirits open our mind day after day. Nowadays in internet I found many new guys with intelegent theologian.
I missed the part where math pointed to God
If we didn't create math. If a physical material mind did not create math, then how did we find this language of codes and numbers to guide and help us to understand this physical world? It all leads to an immaterial mind that is so far beyond and independent of us that it only could be such an advanced Creator that we cannot fully comprehend.
@@QuestionEverything562 Us not understanding something isn't proof of god. Especially not the manmade nonsensical god(s) from organized religions.
There is, and never will be, a point. When you're an indoctrinated drone like these clowns, you believe everything you're told. The critical thinking faculty has been brainwashed out of them.
@@brianv61it’s not about if we can understand it. It’s about who created it.
@@QuestionEverything562so 1+1=2 points to God? In simpler terms.
As we are in the "latter days" now, I can see how God's Holy Spirit is revealing to scientists/mathematicians and others, that He does exist. It's just a matter of accepting Truth or not.
@EmtnlDmg99 More silver spoon and platter raised replies from the mind of a 10 year old...
Ecclesiastes 7:6 "For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, so is the laughter of the fool: this also is vanity."
Right... that must be the reason belief in a personal god is inversely proportional to standard of education.
@EmtnlDmg99
No, it isn't. That's a load of total bs 😂
Please provide ONE scientifical source for such a claim.
Ah the warm lovely cult of death...
@@RemnantDiscipleLazzaro-Rev1217you’re so silly
Every Christian starting with THE APOSTLES believed they were in the “latter days”, yet here we are. A couple thousand years of people thinking the end is near, and it’s never been.
All these people can't realize that math did not invent itself. Effect points to a cause. Does anyone have a better cause then nothing made it? God is the best answer. Where did the laws of logic, and the laws of physics and math come ftom? And why do they work well together?
Laws require a Lawgiver.
I'm not sure exactly what the claim is with regard to maths. What could have been different? Could 1+1 have equalled 3? If so, what would the world have looked like if that was the case? If we put one thing and another thing together, would a third have appeared? Would it have made just as much sense that way? If the rules could have been made randomly, then I don't think this points to an intelligent designer, they could have just been random. Or does it only make sense the way it is? In that case, I don't think this points to a designer either, they had to be that way.
@wms72
Don't be fooled. You are playing fast and loose with the word "law". The scientific "laws" are descriptive not prescriptive. No one prescribed them. It just explains what we discover. That is all.
There are "laws " that humans make to order our society and those are prescribed by us. Please make sure you understand the different usages of words.
Logic came from the Logos
@@Thermolizer: Did you just say that because they're spelt similarly?
“It's hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it's damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person.”
And in your scenario, who here is the stupid person?
@@thefinerbs7157 Perhaps the person who with zero actual evidence, and mountains of resultant absurdities, believes fervently in a useless invisible friend?
@@RB-kr1ww perhaps you are right, and there is nothing. But if you're wrong, sucks to be you
@@thefinerbs7157 I’d have to say your comment actually illuminates one of the most blatant absurdities in the story. What kind of god would create a person with a rational logical mind, and then punish them in horrible torture, not for a week, or a month, or a trillion centuries, but for ETERNITY because they failed to believe ridiculous assertions based on flimsy or no evidence at all. For another example, where did Cains wife come from? I could go on, and on, and on ….
@@RB-kr1ww because god is just and he will rightfully punish those who live in sin.
This is so true . As a carpenter , carpenters use Pythagorean 's Theory to square up walls , you can also do the same by pulling diagonal measurements from corner to corner , when both measurements are equal , your wall , slab , rough openings are exactly SQUARE or EQUAL . Then there is DNA ....
I had an interesting conversation with a coworker who considers himself a “poetic naturalist,” meaning he believes everything has a natural cause and explanation, but that he wishes to retain a “poetic” appreciation and wonder for nature. He’s big into science and was going on about entropy, talking about how there is no essential order in the cosmos because everything is tending toward disorder. I had to point out to him that even if order tends to decrease in a system, the fact that it does so consistently and reliably indicates that even this tendency toward disorder is occurring in an orderly manner. No matter how you slice it, God’s handiwork is evident everywhere one looks with a humble heart.
Was he able to receive that? What was his response? Just curious.
entropy increases except where there is life, life is creation utilizing entropy to arrange growth. God is another word for creation...the creator whom newton wrote about in the general scholium to principia mathematica.
Claiming physics is gods work?
Another underwit.@@therick363
This is incoherent tripe
I’ve always loved Steve’s outlook. His study and approach to philosophy, science, and theology is amazing
Amazingly dishonest when it comes to him talking about science
@@jkorling I really don’t know enough to know if he’s been right about everything but he has great insight into the topics
Maths and the ideas behind what you're saying (metaphysical idealism, and platonism) litterally brought me to God in some sense. Not the precise christian God, but i'm for sure WAY more religious than most people.
My Heavenly Father created the most amazing things in existence. Praise Jesus.🙏
Hallelujah for this mind blowing revelation 😍 All Glory to Jesus ❤🙌🏼
Hail Satan brother!
Ummm, no. Stephen Meyer's argument about the Cambrian Explosion resulting in new forms of life with no predecessor animals has been proven false, so no, this argument for Intelligent Design fails.
@@jkorlingoh love the Cambrian!... have you read 'beautiful life' by Stephen Jay Gould?... well, it's about the burgess shale I guess... 'the ancestors tale '... Dawkins is awesome too.
I was atheist until I seen and experienced heaven unexpectedly and it was glorious. Nothing but love 😊
@EmtnlDmg99 I'm not religious. It was a place u could describe as heaven. I don't think there is a hell. I believe we all go back to this loving place, possibly even Hitler, possibly all of us.
@EmtnlDmg99That’s also not what God says- it’s what weird humans make up about God that says that… God is love- LOVE is God. Truth saves… truth is the only WAY TO LOVE…. Church doctrine isn’t biblical usually. Read it without any man made BS doctrine- just see what it REALLy says maybe.❤
Sounds like you did drugs
You do know you have to be dead and stay dead to go to heaven right?
@@bigwill7097 I honestly don't know what or where I was but I wasn't human. I floated from my body. Felt like I was lying on a table with entities telepathically telling me I wasn't ready to be there. At one point a big bright light shimmering in front of me appears and it felt emotionally and physically pure love and joy it's what could be described as a heavenly place. I then felt like I fell back into my body on earth as i was me again.
Yes because math is logic and God is pure logic
The existence of math in no way suggests god... Completely empty assertions
It's common sense. I've been aware of this concept all of my life. I myself am not a math genius, but it's not a leap to comprehend that those who are, are not creating the math. They are discovering it, not creating it. As GOD is, math is also.
"I myself am not a math genius..." And that is exactly why i cant trust your opinion
@penewoldahh ok, so scientists discovered what water is made of. Hydrogen and oxygen. Did they create the water because they discovered the ingredients? Did they create hydrogen and oxygen? Nope. We can go all day discussing what God created that we've only discovered.
@@deeda3332 hydrogen and oxygen isn't math
@penewoldahh wow! You really got me. Actually, H2O is absolutely a math equation. Everything in nature is equated to math. We as humans can show examples of this, but it's not a creation. As humans, we're intelligent enough to discover and be aware of so much. Math just is just as 1 apple + 2 apples = 3 apples. You can come up with different words to use, we as humans created our language, but you can't change the math itself cause it's a natural source of creation. You can manipulate things with math, but you can't manipulate the math itself.
@@deeda3332what
Glory to Our lord Jesus Christ !
What does a Christian God have to do with the God being discussed in the video? Bible is a human book with contradictions, with a God who sanctioned slavery and genocide among other things. And had to kill his son Jesus before he could forgive. Is this the highest being in the Universe? If so, we are all doomed, because he doesn't appear to be very reasonable.
Amen! Glory to Jesus Christ! He did it!
@@user-el3rk6os3pyou seem like you don’t understand the foundation of God in scripture do you want some clarification of Yahweh The eternal God who created you ?
@@user-el3rk6os3p You are merely ignorant of the meanings in the Word. That fault is in you, not The Holy Bible.
@@anthonykurczewski8384 am I ignorant? Or does the Bible call for killings of women and children of Israel’s enemy? Except, they could keep the virgins for themselves. Clearly this “God” is a creation of ancient Israel, other people no doubt created similar Gods for themselves.
41:53
سَنُرِيهِمْ ءَايَـٰتِنَا فِى ٱلْـَٔافَاقِ وَفِىٓ أَنفُسِهِمْ حَتَّىٰ يَتَبَيَّنَ لَهُمْ أَنَّهُ ٱلْحَقُّ ۗ أَوَلَمْ يَكْفِ بِرَبِّكَ أَنَّهُۥ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَىْءٍۢ شَهِيدٌ ٥٣
We will show them Our signs in the universe and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that this ˹Quran˺ is the truth. Is it not enough that your Lord is a Witness over all things?
- Dr. Mustafa Khattab, The Clear Quran
You can say that the relationships between the sides and angles of a triangle are discovered, but math is the human invented tool to describe the regularities of nature, just like how English is also a human-invented language used to describe nature.
This is the problem with calling math a “language”, without proper context it leads to confusion for people like you
@@garrettkuracka2277bit condescending mate. He’s right: ‘math’ is a human concept which enables us to describe the universe. If we weren’t here, ‘math’ wouldn’t exist as we know it. If we were four dimensional beings, our ‘math’ would be different to the form we know. In fact, the ‘math’ utilised for the study of quantum phenomena IS different to the standard form used in classical physics. But it’s still a human attempt at description. Just because someone suggests a theory doesn’t make it true. Maybe, this is all MY dream and you are a figment of my imagination. Prove or disprove that.
@ConservativeMirror I guess it's better to say that the relationships and sides of an angle and triangle discovered in Nature and expressed mathematically imply an Immaterial Mind or Theism(God)...
peace and love,
yishmirai
@garrettkuracka2277 he was outlining the similarities of the two thing as tools we created, not saying they are the same. You are the idiot here, champion.
@@yishmiraibenisrael8771 They imply nothing of the sort
Lol that doesn’t point to a god. That’s a bald assertion that he can’t demonstrate.
I have said this for YEARS. I am a Christian, and I also went state in Math snd loved Science growing up. (I preferred experiments or a good math session over sports).
Science and Math advances are DISCOVERING what has always been there, not creating. With the countless numbers of ordered, structured formulas all around us, the logical explanation is that it was all created by intelligence, NOT created by Chaos..
The same way, without proof, we can conclude things were created by someone rather than randomly (which is EVIDENCE. Evidence and proof are not equal).
Example: Imagine you KNOW there is mayo, lettuce, tomato, bread and Turkey on the table, all in the package is came in. You walk back into the room, and there is a sandwich perfectly made with the perfect amount of each ingredient. Even though you have no “Proof” that someone made this sandwich rather than it being created naturally, you know that someone made the sandwich. Even though you did not see anybody, and even if you never see them, hear them, or find ANY other proof that someone exists in that house, the evidence points to that sandwich being created, and nobody would say “since there is no proof, it must have been made naturally “.
The same applies to the world around us.
I used to know everything and was never wrong until I became a Christian and realized I was a fool professing myself to be wise.
This is on the same level as, "if God doesn't exist, who will judge me?"
somehow related humans start thinking they made themselves like "I am GOD".
As the devil wanted to be GOD and the child of the devil (man of sin / son of perdition) will be:
2Th 2:4 He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god and object of worship. As a result, he seats himself in the sanctuary of God and himself declares that he is God.
If there is no GOD they can declare themselves GOD. They made themselves.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning, the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He existed in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 Through him all things were made, and apart from him nothing was made that has been made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life, and that life brought light to humanity.
@@ericmanget4280 Eric you need to get off the internet and surround yourself with ideas that challenge your own views. There's no clones of human you silly billy
@@ericmanget4280 can you link to any trustworthy source?
@@ericmanget4280false....and SCNT cloning still requires unique genetic material
it chills my blood , and , it is terrifying to read the comments of people who "come against" this with any response that is at least coherent and understandable , has some form of logic or reason , I can see what it means for them to be blind and why they reject God , they simply are desperate for him not to exist for personal reasons including the love of sin . It is insane to think they believe math can simply exist on its own , and even worse , some think there is intelligent responses to support it .
So anyone who doesn't agree with your beliefs is dishonest evil person
@@Carolinacavemanstrawman lol
All people are evil people. There is no one good. We are declared righteous by placing faith in Jesus who died for your sins. The only unpardonable sin is rejecting Jesus. All humanity deserves to go to Hell for our sin. God doesn’t want you to go to Hell. Accept the free gift of eternal life, by grace, through faith in Jesus.
@billymays7958 that's what she said right there. Anyone that "comes against" and lists of all these motives to make them out as evil.
@@Carolinacaveman The Bible calls unbelief evil. In Hebrews 3.
This is my experience too. It’s why Einstein and Newton were Christians. What’s amazing is that math is constructed from the laws of God and are discovered not artificially created.
Math points to a lunatic in the sky who occasionally wipes out people with magic. Gotcha.
Finally, proof of what i always knew.... Athena, Goddess of Reason, created the Universe.
No, iy is the god Tengri. The mongolian god that helped gengis khan ron conquer the world. His world conquest is proof of Tengri existence
If THIS doesn't cure the doubting Thomas within me, I'm in real trouble!!! Finally, using the description, "mind blowing" is no exaggeration!!! Subed, thanks ...This lit me on 🔥
That is why most mathematicians are either anti-realists or Neo Platonists.
For me and my house, the Platonic ideals reside in the mind of God.
Nuff said.
How did you determine most mathematicians are either anti realist or neo platonists?
@@fibonacimike4110 Lastly, Stewart Shapiro’s book
“Thinking about Mathematics: The Philosophy of Mathematics” I would argue … does a rather wonderful job of framing the issue.
@@josephpmitchell8394 so it collect a large random sample of all mathematicians or did they collect data on every mathematician in the world to come to that conclusion?
@@fibonacimike4110 Mike … curious given two logical options. What is your choice?
@@fibonacimike4110 Let me know.
But, by definition, mathematicians are bound by logic … so the answer needs to be epistemologically justified
Atheist or theist, one thing we know for sure is... We don't know why reality is like this... or why it exists at all!
“So it must be an invisible man in the sky who looks just like me and has the power to do anything yet let’s children get cancer!” -🤡
But we do, it's called physics
@@IAmYourDoom yeah but there's no way of definitively knowing. Numbers aren't going to paint an entire story, they just lay a frame of reference
That is definitely true even to god. Why does god exist rather than nothing if he does and what governed his will to create everything this way? Anything you think of that is the next deepest thing, you can just ask it to that next thing.
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"
If it was the former, then the question wouldn't exist.
Gods consciousness is in us all, this is why we can connect and work together with people from other parts of the world even if we don't speak the same language. This is why we can connect and work together with animals, even thou we don't speak the same language. Because we all have Gods consciousness in us, that is based on logic and order and directing us towards common goals and ultimately expand Gods agenda. Now to make everything more interesting, we have another strong force, that adds chaos and destruction into the equation, but that's another talk for another day.
The concepts of Science and math existed before we discovered any of them
I'm still waiting for this mathematical proof of god's existence... Where's it at?
Why would the supernatural be detected using tools designed for natural processes? You’re not serving the own like you think you are
in tha calculator
Show me the mathematical proof of good or evil. For that matter, show me the mathematical proof of gravity; Newton had a theory, Einstein had a completely different theory. Nobody has yet proven what gravity is. What is the speed of light? Einstein said in his 1905 paper and his 1920 paper that we could not measure the speed of light; we couldn’t, we can’t, we don’t know.
@@denvan3143 Force = Mass x Acceleration.
There ya go, there's mathematical proof
@@denvan3143 A theory in a scientific sense is literally the best explanation we have. You're right to say that we have a theory of gravity, but wrong in your assumption of what that means. Newton's work was foundational to Einstein's, and Einstein's work was foundational to Hawking's. Hawking's work was more complicated, sure, but not truly different from Newton's.
Now that math-able stuff is out of the way, we need to talk philosophy. Because that's where you're going to define, find, and measure good and evil.
Lol math points to nothing but math and science. 😂
When God is the explanation for everything remarkable, it’s easy to be a theist. But principles exist independently of anyone’s mind, including the mind of God.
Exactly, I can't believe how much scrolling it took to find someone who gets it. The Pythagorean Theorem would be true even if no one, including God, existed to think of it.
It's true he didn't really explain why these principles need to exist in a mind. Rather, he should have mentioned this: Principles are non-physical, and if they exist indepentently of our minds, they must exist in a non-physical realm. Thus, metaphysics must be true. There are arguments that principles/concepts must exist in what could best be described as "God's mind", but he doesn't mention any of those arguments.
He basically said "it doesn't exist in our reality, therefore god" I swear religious people stretch their arguments so much I'm surprised nothing has ripped
All religion has these days is god of the gaps. The argument is always the same. This thing is not yet understood -> PROOF FOR GOD.
I find your comment ironic since there is no explanation for the nothing created something "gap". We've never observed gasses becoming something. Besides, where did the gasses come from? A supposed simple 1 celled amoeba has enough DNA information to fill 1,000 Encyclopedias. There is no such thing as a simple organism. The big bang discovery really destroys atheists' religion. There's 2 options. Something outside of time, space, and matter had to have created time space and matter or absolutely nothing created time space and matter. Both require faith, which is more reasonable?
@@deanmarten atheism isn't a religion
@@deanmartenYour argument, while it dances with poetic license around the mysteries of our universe, fundamentally misunderstands both the nature of scientific inquiry and the concept of atheism. Let's dismantle this, shall we?
Firstly, the "nothing created something" trope is a misrepresentation of scientific theories on the origins of the universe. Scientists do not claim that "nothing" spontaneously birthed "something." Rather, the Big Bang theory describes the rapid expansion of matter from a state of extremely high density and temperature. The origins of the singularity itself remain a topic of inquiry and speculation, but this in no way necessitates a divine creator. To assert so is to commit to an argument from ignorance: "I don't understand it, therefore God."
Your statement that "we've never observed gases becoming something" betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of chemical and biological processes. The formation of stars from hydrogen gas, the synthesis of complex organic molecules from simpler compounds, and the evolution of life from simple to complex organisms are well-documented phenomena, governed by natural laws rather than divine intervention.
The complexity of a single-celled amoeba's DNA is indeed marvelous, but it does not imply design. Complexity can arise from natural processes; evolution by natural selection is a well-supported mechanism by which simple organisms can evolve into more complex forms over billions of years. The argument from complexity is an old one, refuted by both the fossil record and genetic evidence.
As for the Big Bang being the death knell for atheism, this is a curious conclusion. The discovery of the Big Bang provided evidence for the beginning of the universe as we know it, but it does not provide evidence for a deity. If anything, it removes the need for a God to kickstart the universe, as it describes a natural process.
The false dichotomy you present between a deity creating the universe and "absolutely nothing" doing so is a flawed argument. It presupposes that the only logical explanation for the existence of the universe is a divine creator. This ignores other possibilities that are being explored in physics and cosmology, such as quantum fluctuations or multiverse theories.
Finally, the assertion that both positions require faith is misleading. Faith, in the religious sense, is belief without evidence. Science, on the other hand, relies on evidence and the scientific method. Where evidence is lacking, science seeks to investigate, not to leap to supernatural conclusions.
In closing, the more reasonable position is not to assert the existence of things for which there is no evidence. Rather, it is to pursue understanding through observation, experimentation, and critical thinking. The universe is under no obligation to make sense to us, and our lack of understanding does not necessitate a divine creator. It necessitates further inquiry.
What do you mean?
Theres also a mathematical equation that says Superman can fly. 🤓
Yes, it is too scary and uncomfortable to acknowledge God's existence so it is better to joke and clown around about it and feel relaxed.
@@nikokapanen82 YOU DUMMMMMMMMMMBBBBBBBBB
Yes that’s crazy to think that we will be hold for our actions when we die.
Crazy to think that there are consequences to our actions. Or is that reality and part of maturity?
Hmm meaningless or meaningful life ?
@@paulorobertosilva8794 When we die we are dead. There are consequences for actions in life with or without believing in a fake god. You don't need fear of a god or the existence of one to love people, have meaning in life and have morals. It causes way more harm than good, more hate and killing than love. Religion is a disease / mental illness.
@@nikokapanen82 You're completely missing the point. There's a lot of mathematical truths that don't apply to material reality at all.
Ive been giving that argument for a while now. That same argument applies to moral/ethics, universals, truth, intelligibility, logic, reason, any and all physics and metaphysics. I use these arguments to refute atheism, debunk it and expose the atheist absurdity!
And who is that intellignet designer? The christian god or muslim god? How do you know?
@@123telamon it can only be the Christian God who is triune, and intelligibility can only derive from the triune, which is demonstrsted via the philosophy of the 1 and the many.
@@123telamon apart from the triune nature, the Christian God is the only God the posseses all the necessary preconditions for intelligibility. No other god including the god of islam which is easily proven.
The reason why (a lot of) humans think the universe was created is that this is what humans do, create, and humans LOVE to be the measure of everything. They tend to think they are the center of the universe anyway. Even if there was something that created the universe, it could be a law, as mathematical laws, that might be eternal. Nowhere in this train of thought is a hint of a creating mind having to be involved necessarily. But it has always been that way. There is probably somebody in the sky throwing lightning around or rolling the sun across the sky. It bears the same logic as a dog thinking a rabbit has been barked into existence.
Watch the conversation on this channel with Sir Roger Penrose. It addresses a lot of what you’ve written here.
@@Daily_Dose_Of_Wisdom I think I already know Rogers position on it, but will do, thanks.
Math laws and equations exist with or without human beings. That is strong evidence for intelligent design.
You know math laws are not the same thing as judicial laws. Right?
Without humans, there is no math and there are no equations. Math is made by humans as a tool. 0 did not exist for the Romans, and was introduced later. Integer numbers, rational numbers, irrational numbers, complex numbers: all introduced by humans. (-1)*(-1)=1 is not god given, it is defined by man. Same for 0!=1, defined by man. You could have defined different, but we decided it to do it this way. So please do not say that math does exist without humans.
That intellignet designer is Allah. And he sent mohammed as a prophet to teach humans the way of allah. Please repent for your sins and worship Allah.
@@123telamon What does this have to to with math?
It is in no way evidence of intelligent design.
This may be the biggest load of nonsense I've ever heard
My exact thoughts. This is a new level of stupid.
@@martinondrumsexplain it better genius lol
True true true. The term “mathematician “ is used twice, math or numbers, not. They have argued about “this.”
HAHAHAHAH
(Romans 1:20) - “For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.”
Yes yes yes. This is why I give no man “credit” for being an athiest. Nobody is an athiest, just a lost soul suppressing the truth.
Just watched this whole video yesterday ... loved the whole discussions. I'm looking forward to the book he's referring to.
“an equation for me has no meaning, unless it expresses a thought of God” - S. Ramanujan
How is this mind blowing? Who says concepts need to be housed in some beings mind in order to exist?
Grasping for straws
When I look at something like the shell of a nautilus and I see the fibonacci sequence I have to ask "how can anyone deny God"? He has a plan. He is order. He is infinite. All of this is necessary for math. And all of His plans are of ethereal beauty. We try to make God like us and we have a strong tendency to forget that we are made in His likeness. Not the same as Him but in His likeness. His reality is endless. Our reality has limits. He is a mindblowingly omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent being. We are not. Be blessed. 🙏✝️❤
For me, science and math is God's magic and miracles. That's how we could understand what's going on like how we can create fire because there's oxygen
😂😂Math is a tool we invented and use to describe things. Math does not exist anywhere else except in human minds. To say it just exists out there is an ignorant religious assumption. This is a classic example of christian pseudo science where believers start with a conclusion and make the evidence fit.
The symbols and methods of mathematics are human inventions, but the truths and principles it uncovers about the universe are discoveries. This dual nature is what makes mathematics uniquely powerful as a tool for understanding the world.
@@DaBenzo923 They aren't 'truths' the way religious minded people want them to be. The universe runs the way it does, but we use our invented math to describe it. Jumping to a god conclusion based on a belief is just wishful thinking and very counter intuitive for anyone that understands math.
Clipped out the atheist proving this all absolute rubbish. Lying is bad in your book isn't it?
Who's book?
I doubt the atheist perfectly refuted the claims of this guy. Since they can't really refute anything that has to do with Christianity.
That book also has a name.
Blows my mind how the most intellectual minds take the longest possible route to get from A to B. My Dad taught me that sometimes intelligence, like 4 wheel drive, helps you get stuck in an even more remote location.
I love this. This is something that I've thought about when looking at the manifestation of fractal mathematics and patterns in our observable universe. For example, the branching fractals of tree branches are similar to our veins, which is similar to the trajectories of galaxies over time. Math manifests in our universe whether or not we are aware of/discovered it. Therefore, math must exist before the universe in order to give it the laws by which it must adhere to. Also, I wish I paid better attention in math class.
Math dosent lead you to god.... that's meth.
that's a really deep and well thought out concept.
Almost funny, but it's so wrong it's not.
HAHAHAH
But which God does math point to? The one who requires barbaric human sacrifices to appease him?
Get religion out of science please. Math and science has no room for something that doesn't exist
The majority of universities in the west, and anywhere around the world were started by Christians, namely Monks. Can you name at least five major universities near you that started by an Atheist? Even better can you name at least two major hospitals near you that started by an Atheist? Yes, it was the Christians pursuit of medical care for the poor and the downtrodden and Christian scientists like Isaac Newton and more who actually expanded our knowledge of science.
It was the Christians, namely monks who started major universes in the west. Can you name at least five major universities near you started by an Atheist? Even better. Can you name at least two major hospitals near you started by an atheist? It was the Christian's pursuit of medicine to care for the poor and the downtrodden that leads to the advancement of medicine and development of universities and in our knowledge of science. Christian scientists like Isaac Newton and many more...
@@islanderws
_"The majority of universities in the west, and anywhere around the world were started by Christians"_
....and?
I think they absolutely should go together because of what you just demonstrated. Science is about exploring the unknown, not about making ignorant assertions about it.
@@islanderws That doesn't disprove the point
I don’t understand why so many people in this comment section are saying how the existence of the metaphysical = Christianity is true.
Theism honors all concepts of God. Let us all outweigh one another in terms of giving honor.
For anyone who reads and likes my comment I thank you in advance. Please share your thoughts. Immaterial conception is possible! Right?
That’s like saying “wheat points to god because wether your here or not it exists” hell of a leap
Not even close, because the universe lines up so perfectly and the math is so perfect it points to a creator because the possibility that it happened by accident is statistically impossible
@@jar3987nah man lol we are lucky happenstance, that’s all, no god, just enjoy the life you’ve been given.
@jray3987 You cab say science points to god but it doesn't make sense for god to invest math.
@@BGTournaments lucky dependent on the chances of this reality being a thing is a big statement bro! i appreciate we all have our perspectives but i think there is value in there being an objective reference point to which enjoying the life we have been given tends to something more. Blessings!
Nah man, you just aren't a philosopher or mathematician. There are distinctions that are capable of being made, and are legitimate and real, between something like wheat, and a mathematical object. Laypeople like us do not dwell in that sphere of work, concepts language, thought, etc. And so we misunderstand or do not fully grasp arguments like this, sometimes. It's a genuine, valid, reasonable and logical premise and hypothesis.
Math doesn't point to any of the thousands of gods men have worshipped. That's just an assertion
I see certain numbers a lot on clocks and other places...... 333, 9.11, 11.11, 12.12, 17.17 and many more. I believe God communicates with us through numbers and I find it fascinating 🙏
God bless you, Sarah!
If you don´t know, *The Bible is codified with advanced mathematical patterns known as GEMATRIA.*
Find out what has to do the number 73 with the Bible and how this number is UNIQUE in mathematics.
To my knowledge, the number 73 represents de Holy Father YHWH and the number 37 represents de Son Yeshua (Jesus).
*Numeric patterns of 37 and 73 in the Bible*
ruclips.net/video/G7uU3nJ5aAU/видео.htmlsi=0Ti6QxRsncIMVHjc
so math is God. I have to change sacred books
What do you think science is. What do you think laws are too follow? If we go with the we came from nothing argument. Then we go back to nothing. So why follow laws. Just do as you want. Chaos and anarchy will soon follow
Religion makes even smart people sound stupid 😅
Lolz religion is a corporation, God is very very real tho 🙏
@@thealchemist7871whose God?
@@JohnA4564 the creator
@@thealchemist7871 what's the name of that God? And what religion?
@JohnA4564 u obviously didn't understand my 1st comment...God/love/entity/frequency/creator...watever your interpretation is to be....👀 no religion
I'm an engineer. The Laws of Thermodynamics was more than enough to convince me there is a Living God.
“I believe the more I study science, the more I believe in God.” Isaac Newton
Might be the dumbest reasoning I've ever heard
Takes a blind person to not see The Light.
@@martinmarkov9707 Sounds profound, but there is nothing underneath...
Mathematics is conceptual, I agree. So does that mean God is conceptual, too?
Good grief 👨🎤👩🎤
Mathematics is conceptual meaning it exists in the mind and because math exists independent of our minds then it must exist in a supernatural (above or beyond natural) mind. That’s the argument.
@AndrewJosephKeith they are only conceptual subjectively.
If every human ceased to exist (and arguably some other animals)- maths would cease to exist.
Two plus two is only four if there is someone to observe that.
@AndrewJosephKeith you realize that you contradicted yourself, right? You first say math exists in the mind then say it exists outside the mind. So which one is it? And since we're at it, what evidence do we have that a mind can exist minus a physical brain?
@everybodygetalong Yet I'd argue the laws of logic, which is what math derives from, has no reason not to apply regardless of whether we or other thinking minds exist or not. If there are two trees on an island and suddenly all minds were wiped off the face of the earth or even the entire universe, it doesn't follow from that that the quantitative quality of those trees on that we label as "two" would therfore cease to exist. Just like with the laws of identity, a rock, I'd argue, would still be rock and not a non-rock if minds were absent. The label "rock" we applied to it would be absent, but it still would be what it is and not what it isn't.
After seeing a magic trick, you know it isn’t “magic.” You understand that there is a logical explanation that explains the trick although you lack the knowledge and imagination to figure it out. Even though you don’t understand how the trick works, you know for sure that “magic” isn’t the explanation. Same thing for how the universe works. Most humans cannot grasp the beautiful complexity of the universe and how it came to be, so they default to “magic” or “god.”
It absolutely blows my mind seeing how many people still believe in man made story books.
The thing about God is that he's Love. Very faithful and understanding.
We will always remain hungry and thirsty for Him . God why so Good❤ I love you so much despite my sinful nature.
Mind blowing? To a believer, everything points to God. It’s nonsense. Leaves are green, proof of god. Gets tiresome. The reason you all need proof and arguments and science to confirm your faith is because you know it’s as stupid as Paul describes it.
Sky is blue, water is wet, the planet is not flat = therefor god
math has nothing to do with god... nothing ...
Okay. You keep believing fairy tales.
Lol
So you telling me with your human intelligence you deny the fact that the universe has some form of natural design that has visible limits and boundaries and don’t question who or what set this limit It couldn’t be nothing 🤷🏾♂️
@@shuzuma299 If the universe operates according to predictable and consistent laws, then any event that violates natural law, such as a miracle, cannot occur. Therefore, if a miracle is claimed to have occurred, it must be either a misunderstanding or a deliberate deception.
@@ninja3687 Low on brain, I see.
Consciousness is the ultimate reality. We exist in the mind of God.
We humans have invented nothing, but have discovered many things and applied them to life and technology. Atheists will say “you have invented God” and again, no, we have discovered Him through His creation.
I don't know= God? No sir. That's silly.
He never said that are u that mentally slow? 😂
@@havocmgatheists tend to be a bit behind the curve
@@owenswabi Is that why whenever theism gets mentioned in scientific spaces you get laughed at?
@@vapingfury4460 who laughs?
I agree with the conclusion, but I'm not quite convinced about this particular path of reasoning by which the conclusion was achieved. My understanding is that math isn't a world, but rather math is a system for drawing as many conclusions as possible from input premises. If you know a set of ideas with certainty, then math lets you multiply it into many more ideas that you can know with 100% certainty. I might be wrong though, feel free to explain if you feel like you can convince me otherwise.
Math is physical and material thought impulses coming from our brain.
We invented math in order to explain things that are conceptually inherent to it.
I like the way that he in no way proved that math is anything other than a tool invented by humans.
In the sciences theres also the observer effect. This phenomenon in which the act of observation alters the behavior of the particles being observed. This effect is due to the wave-like nature of matter, which means that particles can exist in multiple states simultaneously.
Finally they are starting to catch on .. a simple example of this would be the numerical scale from 1-9 or the musical scale or many other foundational gradients that make up the entire material reality
Spiritual and spirit is energy that can't be created or destroyed. Energy like water can manifest in different forms. Example
*water=liquid
*ice= solid
*steam=gas
Energy goes back to the master like a boomerang always fluid and in motion.
David Berlinski is an awesome writer. I read his book a tour of the calculus. And it is really interesting. I got more from that book than I did any of my professors.
He is the Alpha and the Omega,
God bless you
Math is simply an invention used to explain discoveries.
As soon as they talk about what mathematicians "believe" you know these people don't know what they're talking about. Mathematicians are about what you can prove.
Man invented maths. If you went up to an alien and expected them to understand it, they would struggle to grasp it, because they wouldn't have been brought up with an understanding of it.
The patterns and structures of maths were fabricated over thousands of years for a purpose, just as calendars and 'time', were conceived to provide structure and a foundation on which to learn, create and build. Man-made concepts like this are one of the reasons we struggle to cope with the infiniteness of the universe and time - because we are so hung up on these concepts combined with our ephemeral nature that we cannot conceive of something not having a beginning despite their being no actual reason to the contrary. It's why we also invented Gods.