Reasons for a movie supply company to have a CETME Modelo A = 0. Reasons for a movie supply company that's basically used by a rich, serious collector to get around gun laws to get really cool stuff = 1.
@@alkestos I was making a snide (abfällig) critique of how governments make laws that motivated rich people can avoid. I suspect that some wealthy canadian owner uses this film prop (Requisit?) company as his private collection most of the time.
@@sae1095hc Weird, that they neglected to over regulate something as questionable as the movie industry and it's access to firearms. I mean, when you think about it, they're specifically the group of people you don't want to have access to actual functional firearms. High incidence of mental health and substance abuse problems, ridiculously attractive to psychopathic and malignant narcissistic individuals. Known to think they represent some sort of a superior elite over other's, so constantly pop up in public political discourse, insist on ever stricter legislation for depriving basic civil and human rights that will strangle literal national industries and which are historically defined as characteristics of fascist, communist and other totalitarian tyrannies. While constantly seeking exceptions for themselves and getting caught in public as a result of criminal and anti-social behaviour. So, then if we were to start regulating firearms, defined as a basic right. The place to start is definitively here. Any movie company should not have access to anything but deactivated blank guns. And no pressure bearing systems deployed that can take a real cartridge with an actual bullet there. And, if you're registered as a member in the movie industry unions as anything or have your name in the actor registry you definitively loose the right to bear arms, since you're now clearly associated with a culture known for including chronic substance abuse as a life-style for a lot of people, and in general since this leads to mental instability and illness it's not worth the risk. Otherwise, assumption of course being that you're a law abiding citizen until proven guilty. :) But, unfortunately governments aren't ethical operators, but at best a necessary evil. They do the opposite and just run their own niche of organized crime and leave shit like this for their friends to go through. Some of whom of course, are members of actual organized crime syndicates. As we know.
When I was in my military service (Spanish Royal Air Forces), I used the model B during the recruit training period. Then I used model C during the rest of my military service. It was a very hard and trustworthy machine. It never failed, easy to dismount and to clean it. It was ready for use in every conditions like sand, mud, rain, snow... The only cons I found in it was its magazine, 20 rounds is short, it was better a 25 or 30 round magazine. In the Air Base was USAF too, and they was very impressed by the CETME, many jokes to swap by theirs M16
@@TheSrSunday There are a few at the museum in the Infantry Academy. There were still a few CETME A (technically not to be used, since there was barely ammo for them) at several "second line" units in 1999 mixed in with the CETME Bs, just before the G36 entered service and the "mili" got eliminated.
My dad did military service with a CETME (He doesn't remember the exact model). He said that it's an elegant and very accurate gun once you get used to it
That open bolt concept is a really cool design feature on this. It is amazing to know how far my Hk 91 has gone from the MP45 and how CETME was the huge hand that did it.
Every semi-auto CETME I fired had a tendency to double tap unless you made a conscious effort to make sure you held the trigger completely upon firing. Any loose grip would cause the recoil of the rifle to bounce back into the trigger finger and fire again. Unnerving the first time you do it, kind of fun later.
The G3 is a CETME C manufactured in Germany under a Spanish license. In fact, until the 1980s, the initials CETME were stamped on them. The same thing also happened with the FN.
As an HK guy with a transferable sear who swaps his pack around into multiple hosts, including an HK91, I found this video fascinating Ian. It’s really cool to see the DNA that the newer guns share with this and that trigger pack is pretty special. Was really cool that you spent so much time going over that portion of it, because it’s so different to what we normally see. Thanks!
The model "A" was used in the incident from Sidi-Ifni (1957-1958), the Fogottten War by The LEGION ESPAÑOLA, (Spanish Legion, a Special Force omly for volunteers) . It was the Fire Testing for CETME.
He used the Model C, not the model A. The model A was not issued. I know my father was there for the switch between the model C in 7,62 OTAN and the model L in 5,56 OTAN. They are visually similar yet the cartridge powder charge is different, possibly other things. I haven't seen the video yet.
@@MrGabol100 We shot several A's in San Clemente de Sasebas, back in 1999. Of course, that was probably the captain's idea, to get rid of the leftover ammo that was dug from some unused and forgotten store. Some units still have FR8's on the "active" roster. Another anecdote about the CETME A was when some (not very bright or skilled) liutenant tried to "fix" a demilled one with a CETME C barrel. Let's just say that the explosion was something to behold (but no one got injured). He should have looked for information about the ammo pressure and bolt lock issue, as Ian mentions ;-)
Very pimp, never seen one of those; about the markings, FA may mean Fuerza Aerea = Air Force, in the same way that the Armada's CETMEs had FN on the side, meaning Fuerza Naval = Navy Force, and the regular Army have ET markings meaning Ejército de Tierra = Land Army. The "fun switch" markings, T means Tiro = Shot, S means Seguro = Safe and... the tricky one; R, in the CETME L... R meant Ráfaga = Burst, but, in that CETME A, R mean Rápido = Fast/Quick. Later on, on the 70s i belive, the doctrine changed to the Rapid Fire began to be called Fuego Automático (Automatic Fire) but for make it even simpler... it was just called Automático and the full auto markings became just an A. Some Star Z-70, Z-62 and Z-84 also had the FN (Fuerza Naval = Navy Force) markings on the side too.
Sorry for contradicting you, but that F.A. stands for Fusil Automático. Is true that you can find other markings as FN, ET, GC, etc. depending on the issued branch, although in Spain the "Air Force" that you suggest is actually named "Ejército del Alre" and all branding stamping etc. is "EA". And that complementary markings used to be a liitle lower on the magazine well next to the appropriate serial number. You can also find STG markings instead of the F.A: for the early CETMEs sold to Germany.
@@ReverendTed it is true, cant tell you i had some of these on my shooting range, only exposition , btw im Spanish and what he says is totally correct, at least switch mode, other things like FA being Air forces it is not correct bc in Spain is EAm but that was a logical argument so yep, made sanse
As I haven't seen anyone saying it, the CETME acronym was given a different meaning Cada Esquina Tiene Mierda Escondida (non literal translation, every corner has hidden dirt) referring to the fact it was not so easy to clean
Probably because it's inconsistent by nature. I feel like it would cause the user confusion if they emptied the gun on semi auto and the bolt didn't hold open like they expected it to.
@@hellcatdave1 Yes, I can understand enlisted training to be an issue. If the chamber is empty, is the weapon safe? Not on full auto. Even though there were no written in stone expectations in the 1950's. It was one of the first self loading rifles. Up to then it was; if the bolt is back, add more stripper clips.
Great video as alwais Ian, and very interesting anecdote in your blog... that should be a bit of a slap in the face for those who keep saying CETME rifles were a piece of garbage, the french navy commandos seizing a bunch of them and been using the rifles in combat until 1980! So cool to have learn that small bit of spanish firearms history. Thanks and keep up the great work, wish i could help support the channel by patreon.
As always interesting and educational. Would you dare to wish for a more comprehensive series at Sturmgewehr 44 - CETME - HK G3 from the end of the 40's to its use and status today. Maybe not the most forgotten weapon, but think it would be very interesting to see your thoughts on what made the concept successful.
very cool to see one! the closed/ open bolt i still think was a good concept on these at the time, and really not that much more difficult looking at the control group.
Forgotten Weapons has taught me that a whole load of really cool guns are apparently in the hands of Canadian companies with permits to have all the neat toys
Makes since because the M93R Raffica is Itlian for burst. Definitely an example of how certain words do not perfectly translate into another language. Such as "Automatic" being logical in English but not in Spanish or Italian in relation to a fire selector
Licenced was bought he G3 (Gewehr 3) is a 7.62×51mm NATO, select-fire battle rifle developed in the 1950s by the German armament manufacturer Heckler & Koch (H&K) in collaboration with the Spanish state-owned design and development agency CETME (Centro de Estudios Técnicos de Materiales Especiales).[2] The G3 was the service rifle of the Bundeswehr until it was replaced by the Heckler & Koch G36 assault rifle in the 1990s.
@@larrymccoy5394 is not developed by the germans, HK just buy the pattent of the Cetme model C and bought the factory machines too to translade them to germany. Early G3's are simply made on Spain because the machines dont move to germany on first months, even the protoypes like the 7,62x39 G3, has Spanish markings, every HK first models on wood-baquelite, even the mp5 prototype with straight mags, all had spanish markings, on the factory they left some pieces of prototypes including parts of mp5 protoype and 7,62x39 g3, if you search about prototypes of 7,62x39 or early G3 rifles, you can see all were made on the Cetme factory until HK savage all the machinery from Spain and train the new german personel.
Muy bueno ese español, Ian! Talking about CETME Model A in actual service, Spanish Paratroopers were issued with them during their intervention at the Spanish Sahara, 1957/1958
I was on a range next to one of these (not sure of the model) and it mangled brass beyond all possible reuse and hit me in the cheek with enough force to not only raise a welt, but actually cut me.
Given the fact that it doesn't have actual handguard, the bipod would instead acts as one when folded up. The size would mean it'll snug nicely in one's hand when held, although caution must be exercised as not to (accidentally) touch the barrel that would be pretty hot during sustained automatic fire.
Yep. Or just like what Nazi German soldiers would wear when changing the MG42's hot barrel, asbestos gloves. I heard it's quite effective(though some can be "badass" and change that hot barrel with bare hands.... No, seriously, don't try it. It hurts.)
It is rare to find any of those CETME A, the first ones that were built, were in the classrooms , in the barracks. When I was on duty I used it for combat instruction and they were rendered useless and nearly destroyed. I have seen chargers only in museums.
The CETME's used in Argelia were model B, not A. The B had a metalic handguard, and different bipod. I used the B at boot camp and then the C in service, the recoil of the C was a lot more than the B, but the C was lighter and nicer than the B. That was in 1973-1974.
I would assume that it lowers the additional bold holder and disconnects the auto sear that is one mechanism after all. It would slam shut and that would be it.
That would be pretty neat. I also assume that you could switch from safe/semi to full auto you could have your first round with a closed bolt? That is a really nice design.
@@Pheatrix Best of both worlds. My fantasy "light carbine" -design that I tinkered way too long with has similar setup of both a sear and a hammer, but the sear is also the magazine bolt hold open, there's a lever to drop the bolt and they are other way around cause it has mag in the pistol grip. Think some kind of mix between Kel-Tec CMR 30 and MP7 with about 12" barrel and long collapsing stock. It's for a scifi setting that I hope to turn into a book one day fairly soon, open bolt is mainly for when there's no atmosphere when in space or boarding ships etc. and I really like the idea of dropping the bolt for more accurate shots as a kind of a power move.
One liutenant, back in 2002, tried to fix a demilled CETME A with a CETME C barrel. He didin't know about pressure and locking, so you can imagine the result. I only HEARD it from quite some distance ;-)
@@exploatores Not seriously, mostly a couple bruises and a scare. By the looks of the aftermath, the barrel wasn't properly seated and separated from the trunnion almost completely, the bolt stuck itself on the rear, and there were some small cracks on receiver. No need to say the jokes and nicknames that started flying from that day on ;-)
Nice to hear that no one got killed or got any serious wounds. I am a former military, so I can guess that he didn´t hear the end of that. I guess the incident was used as a example why you never should have the wrong kind of ammo on your person. that kind of thing would get you killed in a firefight.
@@exploatores More as an example of "you don't klutz a high-powered rifle out of mismatched parts, thinking that your rank means you know what you are doing". ;-)
You did another video about NATO ammunition and the CETME aluminum bullet cartridge. With this talk about the bullet for the CETME A, maybe it is now time to more fully discuss the Spanish 1916 rifles converted to 7.62 x 51?
Recently while reading a book from the 1960s about the military rifles of various nations, I noticed that the entry about the Spain's Cetme rifle mentioned the hybrid open bolt full auto, closed bolt semi. I laughed and thought to myself 'WTF? This author has clearly never seen a Cetme, he has no idea what he's talking about." I just assumed that was incorrect and he had gotten bad info. Now I realize he was right, sort of, it's absolutely true for these early models. Wow. I feel like a real dumbass now.
The R on the select fire stands "Rafaga" or "Rafagas" and de "T" stands for "Tiro a Tiro" de model A doesn't use have the same magazine but u can use the magazine of the modelo B and C. That's a really common mistake. Is a really rare thing to find original magazines for that model. As a Spanish collectionist i have a couple CETME's on my home there's a bunch of variables on the same models doesn't matter if it's a A B or C model bcs was an experimental model and they where upgrading the models constantly and making modifications to the grip/magazines/ muzzle breaks and sights. So there's a lot of confusion with this weapons
I know its really a longshot and you dont need one... but I'd LOVE to see a build video for a CETME C parts kit like you did for the L. I realize it wouldn't be on youtube but wherever would be great!!!
No, IIRC. But if you could manage to get it to semi, then it would chamber a round. Last (and only) time I used one was in 99, so I may remember wrong.
Once saw a video about mercenary in congo, there's fn fal/g3 ish weapon but with the rear sight above the magazine, probably this is the gun they use ?
I guess you could charge it in SA, switch to FA, and fire that first round from a closed bolt. Just in case you were expecting an enemy coming around a corner and wanted a more acurate first shot but the benefit of FA if you miss or if there is more than 1 of them. Just a thought...
So, with that auto sear mechanism, what happens if you fire full auto, release the trigger (bolt locks in open position), then switch to semi? Does the first semi shot operate as an open bolt, with subsequent shots fired from a closed bolt? Or does rotating the selector drop the bolt to a closed bolt position immediately? I would think that having having to fight the pressure of the bolt on that sear, when switching to semi, would make the selector a real pain to switch.
For those wanting to see early CETME combat footage (although Modelo B, not A), there is a doc/movie Africa Addio (Blood and Guts) in which some mercenaries have them as personal weapons (there are many other interesting firearms in that doc/movie, for example Hotchkiss SMG, if you get past the irritating narrator).
So it looks that when you selected from full auto to safe or semi, the bolt would just slam home since the auto sear drops, but say you are loaded with one in the chamber and in semi, and you wish to switch to full auto, do you have to manually action the bolt and drop a round or can you simply pull the trigger, fire the round in the chamber and then continue in full auto. Also what would stop the hammer from firing the round in the chamber when you switched from semi to full?
indeed, the CETME was designed by a german enginneer that was working on the development of the stg44, it came to Spain due to exile as seeing the war was lost, so he came and made that cute boy, totally love it. They explained me this at a museum at Spain, Madrid
But the final Sturm gewerh rifles that military uses are gas pistol operated having very similar mechanisms and parts with AK47 and M1 Garand. Even I used to think Sturm gewerhs are roller delayed system but the AK guy showed the internal and explained the working in his video stating the similarity with M1 Garand. Anywho, it is possible that the first production Sturm gewerhs are roller delayed.
Imagine if the Spanish Germans and American Germans were swapped in transit. They would be no AR today as you would all be shooting G3-esque rifles. And the Spanish would be on the moon. :)
@@hkoperatorsunion_3395 I think it would have shared the issues and been replaced. Edit: Mainly because most of the problems with the M14 were just problems with battle rifles as a whole.
@@SonsOfLorgar 1: Where is the G3 still in use? To my knowledge, it had largely been phased out by the turn of the century (open to being wrong though). 2: Imo, there's a difference between the Post-WW2 economic giant of the US, who can afford to make a new rifle and then change to a new one relatively shortly after, and a smaller country that buys G3's and then sticks with them because they're "good enough." The AK-47 is still used in many countries, but that doesn't mean it's perfect, for example.
Ian could you maybe use the Infor tab in top right corner or include a link to the videos you mention in the description area below to any other videos you call out to so as to simplify the process of searching the associated content, thanks
So if you open the bolt with the gun on safe the bolt locks back? Does the selector become a bolt release then? This video reminds me... wonder what's happening with that semi auto STG-44.
The front sight is located on the gas block, a which is fixed (yes I know it can be removed, but not under field stripping) and therefore stable and out of the way, unlike if it was positioned out on the barrel. The rear sight, is located on the bolt carrier group guide/ recoil spring guide, which is also pretty well fixed to the barrel unit, which would not be dismantled as part of field stripping. If the rear sight would be positioned on the rear of the receiver unit, the end of which is removed each time the rifle is field stripped. The sight radius might be short, but it’s long enough to provide design standards accuracy. This also the concept with the AK pattern rifle,, it inherently accurate enough for its design standards, but if you locate the rear sight in a relatively imprecise rear cover, repeatability is not assured. After all, just how accurate does your sighting system need to be for it’s designed use?
@@charlesadams1721 Well certainly I wasn't talking about the position of the front sight, but the rear. The rear sights on the B and later models where further back on the receiver right in front of where the rear comes apart, So obviously this issue was addressed at some point, it is just rather curios why they would go the route they did when they didn't have to, perhaps familiarity, or perhaps hindsight is 20/20.
@@Reactordrone I suppose this is my theory, even though the idea works as well with a tangent sight as it does with a peep (that being that a longer sight radius is better for accuracy). I suppose maybe they were just familiar with this set up which was necessitated by the smaller real estate on the rear of receivers on the older bolt guns (that or split bridge receivers).
R stands for 'ráfaga', which means 'burst'. (T is 'tiro a tiro', 'shot-by-shot').
Exacto
Gracias.
must have felt nice with no handguard huh.
@@kevinhorning3624 The bipod is the handgaurd when it is collapsed.
It actually means RATATATA, which is the sound the gun makes in burst.
Reasons for a movie supply company to have a CETME Modelo A = 0.
Reasons for a movie supply company that's basically used by a rich, serious collector to get around gun laws to get really cool stuff = 1.
I don't get it, someone explain please? I have an excuse, I'm not native english speaker!
@@alkestos I was making a snide (abfällig) critique of how governments make laws that motivated rich people can avoid. I suspect that some wealthy canadian owner uses this film prop (Requisit?) company as his private collection most of the time.
@@sae1095hc Weird, that they neglected to over regulate something as questionable as the movie industry and it's access to firearms. I mean, when you think about it, they're specifically the group of people you don't want to have access to actual functional firearms. High incidence of mental health and substance abuse problems, ridiculously attractive to psychopathic and malignant narcissistic individuals. Known to think they represent some sort of a superior elite over other's, so constantly pop up in public political discourse, insist on ever stricter legislation for depriving basic civil and human rights that will strangle literal national industries and which are historically defined as characteristics of fascist, communist and other totalitarian tyrannies. While constantly seeking exceptions for themselves and getting caught in public as a result of criminal and anti-social behaviour.
So, then if we were to start regulating firearms, defined as a basic right. The place to start is definitively here. Any movie company should not have access to anything but deactivated blank guns. And no pressure bearing systems deployed that can take a real cartridge with an actual bullet there.
And, if you're registered as a member in the movie industry unions as anything or have your name in the actor registry you definitively loose the right to bear arms, since you're now clearly associated with a culture known for including chronic substance abuse as a life-style for a lot of people, and in general since this leads to mental instability and illness it's not worth the risk.
Otherwise, assumption of course being that you're a law abiding citizen until proven guilty. :)
But, unfortunately governments aren't ethical operators, but at best a necessary evil. They do the opposite and just run their own niche of organized crime and leave shit like this for their friends to go through. Some of whom of course, are members of actual organized crime syndicates. As we know.
When I was in my military service (Spanish Royal Air Forces), I used the model B during the recruit training period. Then I used model C during the rest of my military service.
It was a very hard and trustworthy machine. It never failed, easy to dismount and to clean it. It was ready for use in every conditions like sand, mud, rain, snow...
The only cons I found in it was its magazine, 20 rounds is short, it was better a 25 or 30 round magazine.
In the Air Base was USAF too, and they was very impressed by the CETME, many jokes to swap by theirs M16
I had never seen a Cetme A before and I live in Spain and have visited two military museums in Spain... Ian is awesome!
I think I saw one at the Toledo museum
@@TheSrSunday There are a few at the museum in the Infantry Academy.
There were still a few CETME A (technically not to be used, since there was barely ammo for them) at several "second line" units in 1999 mixed in with the CETME Bs, just before the G36 entered service and the "mili" got eliminated.
¡Muchas gracias! @@RCZM64
Thank you, for keeping alive our gun and military history, your Spanish is improving every video you make, greetings from Spain. Jesús.
My dad did military service with a CETME (He doesn't remember the exact model). He said that it's an elegant and very accurate gun once you get used to it
That open bolt concept is a really cool design feature on this. It is amazing to know how far my Hk 91 has gone from the MP45 and how CETME was the huge hand that did it.
Every semi-auto CETME I fired had a tendency to double tap unless you made a conscious effort to make sure you held the trigger completely upon firing. Any loose grip would cause the recoil of the rifle to bounce back into the trigger finger and fire again. Unnerving the first time you do it, kind of fun later.
@@SonsOfLorgar Pretty much. lol
The G3 is a CETME C manufactured in Germany under a Spanish license. In fact, until the 1980s, the initials CETME were stamped on them. The same thing also happened with the FN.
As an HK guy with a transferable sear who swaps his pack around into multiple hosts, including an HK91, I found this video fascinating Ian. It’s really cool to see the DNA that the newer guns share with this and that trigger pack is pretty special. Was really cool that you spent so much time going over that portion of it, because it’s so different to what we normally see. Thanks!
The model "A" was used in the incident from Sidi-Ifni (1957-1958), the Fogottten War by The LEGION ESPAÑOLA, (Spanish Legion, a Special Force omly for volunteers) . It was the Fire Testing for CETME.
I enjoy the Spanish speaking Ian
I mean, Prussian Ian is also nice
@@Apollo_1641 French Ian is gonna come in here and beat our asses.
hUnGaRiAn Ian
He sounds pretty good, from a spaniard
Javi Americans from certain areas can get pretty good at at least pronouncing without sounding stupid. Usually the areas Spain used to own
You can really see the STG in this design it got mellowed out a lot more in later variations
It’s the stock for sure lmfao
For me the HKG3 is a rechambered StG44, but improved.
This rifle was supposed to be the rifle of the Armed Forces of the Philippines, then the Vietnam War happened, and we got the M16.
my father used to have one of these during his military service
He used the Model C, not the model A. The model A was not issued. I know my father was there for the switch between the model C in 7,62 OTAN and the model L in 5,56 OTAN.
They are visually similar yet the cartridge powder charge is different, possibly other things. I haven't seen the video yet.
@@MrGabol100 We shot several A's in San Clemente de Sasebas, back in 1999.
Of course, that was probably the captain's idea, to get rid of the leftover ammo that was dug from some unused and forgotten store.
Some units still have FR8's on the "active" roster.
Another anecdote about the CETME A was when some (not very bright or skilled) liutenant tried to "fix" a demilled one with a CETME C barrel. Let's just say that the explosion was something to behold (but no one got injured). He should have looked for information about the ammo pressure and bolt lock issue, as Ian mentions ;-)
¿Combatió en la guerra civil?
@@alvarordr ¿El padre de Luis?
Porque la otra alternativa a la pregunta, ¡tela!
;-)
@@RCZM64 Model A was used during Ifni Colonial War
Very pimp, never seen one of those; about the markings, FA may mean Fuerza Aerea = Air Force, in the same way that the Armada's CETMEs had FN on the side, meaning Fuerza Naval = Navy Force, and the regular Army have ET markings meaning Ejército de Tierra = Land Army. The "fun switch" markings, T means Tiro = Shot, S means Seguro = Safe and... the tricky one; R, in the CETME L... R meant Ráfaga = Burst, but, in that CETME A, R mean Rápido = Fast/Quick. Later on, on the 70s i belive, the doctrine changed to the Rapid Fire began to be called Fuego Automático (Automatic Fire) but for make it even simpler... it was just called Automático and the full auto markings became just an A. Some Star Z-70, Z-62 and Z-84 also had the FN (Fuerza Naval = Navy Force) markings on the side too.
Sorry for contradicting you, but that F.A. stands for Fusil Automático. Is true that you can find other markings as FN, ET, GC, etc. depending on the issued branch, although in Spain the "Air Force" that you suggest is actually named "Ejército del Alre" and all branding stamping etc. is "EA". And that complementary markings used to be a liitle lower on the magazine well next to the appropriate serial number. You can also find STG markings instead of the F.A: for the early CETMEs sold to Germany.
@@ReverendTed it is true, cant tell you i had some of these on my shooting range, only exposition , btw im Spanish and what he says is totally correct, at least switch mode, other things like FA being Air forces it is not correct bc in Spain is EAm but that was a logical argument so yep, made sanse
F.A. Means Fuerzas Armadas (Armed Forces)
@@rookie3315 Not in Spain, in Spain FA means 'Fuerza Aerea'.
As I haven't seen anyone saying it, the CETME acronym was given a different meaning Cada Esquina Tiene Mierda Escondida (non literal translation, every corner has hidden dirt) referring to the fact it was not so easy to clean
mierda= dirt? la traducción seria Shit .
@@Imblu95 We also use mierda (shit) to mean dirt too
That full auto hold open is so elegant in it's simplicity. Why was it never used again?
Probably because it's inconsistent by nature. I feel like it would cause the user confusion if they emptied the gun on semi auto and the bolt didn't hold open like they expected it to.
@@hellcatdave1
Yes, I can understand enlisted training to be an issue. If the chamber is empty, is the weapon safe? Not on full auto.
Even though there were no written in stone expectations in the 1950's. It was one of the first self loading rifles. Up to then it was; if the bolt is back, add more stripper clips.
Great video as alwais Ian, and very interesting anecdote in your blog... that should be a bit of a slap in the face for those who keep saying CETME rifles were a piece of garbage, the french navy commandos seizing a bunch of them and been using the rifles in combat until 1980! So cool to have learn that small bit of spanish firearms history. Thanks and keep up the great work, wish i could help support the channel by patreon.
It's so interesting that they had Full auto open-bolt way back in the 50's, a concept that's coming back into popularity now.
8:39 After you remove the buttstock, you could place the pins in the two holes at the front of the buttstock.
When you work for no-one and upload at four a.m.
Good job Ian, keep it up.
“I don’t always fire modelos...but when I do, it’s with 7.62 nato..”
As always interesting and educational. Would you dare to wish for a more comprehensive series at Sturmgewehr 44 - CETME - HK G3 from the end of the 40's to its use and status today. Maybe not the most forgotten weapon, but think it would be very interesting to see your thoughts on what made the concept successful.
if this was Garand Thumb there would have been an awkward giggling pause when you removed the stock and 30x more comments about it
If you've ever disassembled a Spanish assault rifle and called every part a chingadera, go ahead and hit that subscribe button
T: tiro
S: seguro
R: rafaga
very cool to see one!
the closed/ open bolt i still think was a good concept on these at the time, and really not that much more difficult looking at the control group.
Look at this STG44 stock!
@José Antonio Campuzano Cano Only the first Model A the rest B and C was made by new team of spanish enginners with new innovation
Here before people start typing "WhO iS hErE aFtEr It WaS aDdEd InTo WaRzOnE?"
I actually like the big knurled charging handle, wish that would of been kept on the model C.
That's pretty neat bro I'm jealous of your good luck to be able to find such a unique firearms and actually get to handle such beautiful pieces
Forgotten Weapons has taught me that a whole load of really cool guns are apparently in the hands of Canadian companies with permits to have all the neat toys
Underrated video length
The R in the selector switch stands for "Ráfaga" what means burst in Spanish
Makes since because the M93R Raffica is Itlian for burst. Definitely an example of how certain words do not perfectly translate into another language. Such as "Automatic" being logical in English but not in Spanish or Italian in relation to a fire selector
@@tristanholland6445 Or "fusil" as the spanish word for "military rifle", also taken from italian, back in the ¿XVII? century ;-)
@@tristanholland6445 In spanish we also often refer as Automático to the full auto setting
the missing link between mauser and H&K
The Father of H&K
Licenced was bought he G3 (Gewehr 3) is a 7.62×51mm NATO, select-fire battle rifle developed in the 1950s by the German armament manufacturer Heckler & Koch (H&K) in collaboration with the Spanish state-owned design and development agency CETME (Centro de Estudios Técnicos de Materiales Especiales).[2] The G3 was the service rifle of the Bundeswehr until it was replaced by the Heckler & Koch G36 assault rifle in the 1990s.
@@larrymccoy5394 is not developed by the germans, HK just buy the pattent of the Cetme model C and bought the factory machines too to translade them to germany. Early G3's are simply made on Spain because the machines dont move to germany on first months, even the protoypes like the 7,62x39 G3, has Spanish markings, every HK first models on wood-baquelite, even the mp5 prototype with straight mags, all had spanish markings, on the factory they left some pieces of prototypes including parts of mp5 protoype and 7,62x39 g3, if you search about prototypes of 7,62x39 or early G3 rifles, you can see all were made on the Cetme factory until HK savage all the machinery from Spain and train the new german personel.
Muy bueno ese español, Ian!
Talking about CETME Model A in actual service, Spanish Paratroopers were issued with them during their intervention at the Spanish Sahara, 1957/1958
I was on a range next to one of these (not sure of the model) and it mangled brass beyond all possible reuse and hit me in the cheek with enough force to not only raise a welt, but actually cut me.
Love the conversion to metric units for us non americans ^^
When will the cowboys come to senses and use the same units that 7 billion people use already?
mojoblues66 when someone else can get their hides on the moon
mojoblues66 they already use the metric system, but they convert everything to imperials. no, seriously, look after it.
mojoblues66 when the british comes back to retake the colony they badly lost...
@@mojoblues66 Never!
Ay wassup fools it's Modelo time.
Modelo Especial? ;)
When the engineers were in France they built a few versions in .30 carbine. That would be interesting to get a hold of.
Ian reviewed Ceam 1950B 1 year ago you can watch it now
I’m not greedy. Can I have just one of every gun on the wall?
In ceuta and melilla? Xd
You called shotgun. So i think you can. Would you lent me some?
😁
Jörg Schimmer absolutely. I’m good at sharing
@@randomfamilyman4876 . Thanks bro.
Can I get one of every gun in the frame
That is a massive bipod.
You mean relax pod
That’s what she said...
Given the fact that it doesn't have actual handguard, the bipod would instead acts as one when folded up. The size would mean it'll snug nicely in one's hand when held, although caution must be exercised as not to (accidentally) touch the barrel that would be pretty hot during sustained automatic fire.
Yep. Or just like what Nazi German soldiers would wear when changing the MG42's hot barrel, asbestos gloves. I heard it's quite effective(though some can be "badass" and change that hot barrel with bare hands.... No, seriously, don't try it. It hurts.)
That recoil spring is insane.
Thank you , Ian .
It is rare to find any of those CETME A, the first ones that were built, were in the classrooms , in the barracks. When I was on duty I used it for combat instruction and they were rendered useless and nearly destroyed. I have seen chargers only in museums.
the front handguard on model A, is the bipod . In model C it is wood, The difference from HK G3 is plastic.
"gentle continuous curve" - gun jesus 2019
The CETME's used in Argelia were model B, not A.
The B had a metalic handguard, and different bipod. I used the B at boot camp and then the C in service, the recoil of the C was a lot more than the B, but the C was lighter and nicer than the B. That was in 1973-1974.
One of the best videos I've seen in a while, love the Cetme and H&K stuff,please keep it coming.
Thanks for telling me what CETME stands for Ian. Also thanks for showing this awesome machine gun Sir an the knowledge.
With the bolt held open in the full auto position, what happens when you flip the selector to safe/semi? Presumably it drops without firing?
I would assume that it lowers the additional bold holder and disconnects the auto sear that is one mechanism after all. It would slam shut and that would be it.
That would be pretty neat.
I also assume that you could switch from safe/semi to full auto you could have your first round with a closed bolt? That is a really nice design.
@@Pheatrix Best of both worlds. My fantasy "light carbine" -design that I tinkered way too long with has similar setup of both a sear and a hammer, but the sear is also the magazine bolt hold open, there's a lever to drop the bolt and they are other way around cause it has mag in the pistol grip. Think some kind of mix between Kel-Tec CMR 30 and MP7 with about 12" barrel and long collapsing stock. It's for a scifi setting that I hope to turn into a book one day fairly soon, open bolt is mainly for when there's no atmosphere when in space or boarding ships etc. and I really like the idea of dropping the bolt for more accurate shots as a kind of a power move.
I would love to see a video of the VSS both shooting and history.
two non interchangble rounds that are the same size. look the same and is used by the same unit. Is it only me who thinks that sounds dangerous.
One liutenant, back in 2002, tried to fix a demilled CETME A with a CETME C barrel.
He didin't know about pressure and locking, so you can imagine the result.
I only HEARD it from quite some distance ;-)
Did the liutanant go badly hurt. It sounds like the weapon needed some fixing.
@@exploatores Not seriously, mostly a couple bruises and a scare.
By the looks of the aftermath, the barrel wasn't properly seated and separated from the trunnion almost completely, the bolt stuck itself on the rear, and there were some small cracks on receiver.
No need to say the jokes and nicknames that started flying from that day on ;-)
Nice to hear that no one got killed or got any serious wounds. I am a former military, so I can guess that he didn´t hear the end of that. I guess the incident was used as a example why you never should have the wrong kind of ammo on your person. that kind of thing would get you killed in a firefight.
@@exploatores More as an example of "you don't klutz a high-powered rifle out of mismatched parts, thinking that your rank means you know what you are doing". ;-)
That looks really nice
Hola amigo este es el mejor que asta ahora se ha hecho en el mundo
5:14 i love that part
Season 4, perhaps?
Wow that Was a good prediction
You did another video about NATO ammunition and the CETME aluminum bullet cartridge. With this talk about the bullet for the CETME A, maybe it is now time to more fully discuss the Spanish 1916 rifles converted to 7.62 x 51?
Ah you were in my town! hope you liked it here bud
Recently while reading a book from the 1960s about the military rifles of various nations, I noticed that the entry about the Spain's Cetme rifle mentioned the hybrid open bolt full auto, closed bolt semi. I laughed and thought to myself 'WTF? This author has clearly never seen a Cetme, he has no idea what he's talking about."
I just assumed that was incorrect and he had gotten bad info. Now I realize he was right, sort of, it's absolutely true for these early models.
Wow. I feel like a real dumbass now.
The R on the select fire stands "Rafaga" or "Rafagas" and de "T" stands for "Tiro a Tiro" de model A doesn't use have the same magazine but u can use the magazine of the modelo B and C. That's a really common mistake. Is a really rare thing to find original magazines for that model.
As a Spanish collectionist i have a couple CETME's on my home there's a bunch of variables on the same models doesn't matter if it's a A B or C model bcs was an experimental model and they where upgrading the models constantly and making modifications to the grip/magazines/ muzzle breaks and sights. So there's a lot of confusion with this weapons
I know its really a longshot and you dont need one... but I'd LOVE to see a build video for a CETME C parts kit like you did for the L. I realize it wouldn't be on youtube but wherever would be great!!!
Fun Fact, that is the model for the "Assault Rifle" in the game Fallout 3.
mrscary3105 actually Fo3 assault rifle is the cetme C instead of A, go check it!
Thanks for the excelent video.
It would be interesting to compare this to the earlier ceam rifles in .30 carbine
If flipped into safe from auto with the bolt locked back will it release the bolt forward and chamber a round?
No, IIRC. But if you could manage to get it to semi, then it would chamber a round.
Last (and only) time I used one was in 99, so I may remember wrong.
My father used this model during the military service
Once saw a video about mercenary in congo, there's fn fal/g3 ish weapon but with the rear sight above the magazine, probably this is the gun they use ?
Majorsammm?
It’s modelo time!!
I guess you could charge it in SA, switch to FA, and fire that first round from a closed bolt. Just in case you were expecting an enemy coming around a corner and wanted a more acurate first shot but the benefit of FA if you miss or if there is more than 1 of them. Just a thought...
Yes.
YOU WOULDN'T DOWNLOAD AMMUNITION!
Oh yes I would
So, with that auto sear mechanism, what happens if you fire full auto, release the trigger (bolt locks in open position), then switch to semi? Does the first semi shot operate as an open bolt, with subsequent shots fired from a closed bolt? Or does rotating the selector drop the bolt to a closed bolt position immediately? I would think that having having to fight the pressure of the bolt on that sear, when switching to semi, would make the selector a real pain to switch.
For those wanting to see early CETME combat footage (although Modelo B, not A), there is a doc/movie Africa Addio (Blood and Guts) in which some mercenaries have them as personal weapons (there are many other interesting firearms in that doc/movie, for example Hotchkiss SMG, if you get past the irritating narrator).
luddwig vorgrimler is such a cool name
So it looks that when you selected from full auto to safe or semi, the bolt would just slam home since the auto sear drops, but say you are loaded with one in the chamber and in semi, and you wish to switch to full auto, do you have to manually action the bolt and drop a round or can you simply pull the trigger, fire the round in the chamber and then continue in full auto. Also what would stop the hammer from firing the round in the chamber when you switched from semi to full?
7:14 Luckily that bipod doesn't scratch the barrel finish when folded.
Its like the missing link, between the STG44 and the G3.
indeed, the CETME was designed by a german enginneer that was working on the development of the stg44, it came to Spain due to exile as seeing the war was lost, so he came and made that cute boy, totally love it. They explained me this at a museum at Spain, Madrid
It's more direct link STG45, Cetme B and G3.
Wow never seen one or realize they are so different
A history on the CETME AMELI would be great. Pulz do!
More "sad" than interesting. At least while it was happening :-(
I like when you make vídeos about spanish guns because normally We suck to make guns and this makes me happy
Awesome!
But the final Sturm gewerh rifles that military uses are gas pistol operated having very similar mechanisms and parts with AK47 and M1 Garand. Even I used to think Sturm gewerhs are roller delayed system but the AK guy showed the internal and explained the working in his video stating the similarity with M1 Garand. Anywho, it is possible that the first production Sturm gewerhs are roller delayed.
Ok now this is epic
You make great videos. I just ordered a CTME from Classic Firearms. Any advice about this rifle? It has wood furniture. Thanks.
I bought one in 2004.
Well worth it
Imagine if the Spanish Germans and American Germans were swapped in transit. They would be no AR today as you would all be shooting G3-esque rifles. And the Spanish would be on the moon. :)
Or would the G3 just have the same history as the M14?
I dont want to put my name the g3 is too good of a rifle to end up like that
@@hkoperatorsunion_3395 I think it would have shared the issues and been replaced.
Edit: Mainly because most of the problems with the M14 were just problems with battle rifles as a whole.
@@SonsOfLorgar
1: Where is the G3 still in use? To my knowledge, it had largely been phased out by the turn of the century (open to being wrong though).
2: Imo, there's a difference between the Post-WW2 economic giant of the US, who can afford to make a new rifle and then change to a new one relatively shortly after, and a smaller country that buys G3's and then sticks with them because they're "good enough." The AK-47 is still used in many countries, but that doesn't mean it's perfect, for example.
I dont want to put my name price and recoil were especially horrendous for the m14. but yeah, battle rifles were inevitably gonna be phased out.
Ian could you maybe use the Infor tab in top right corner or include a link to the videos you mention in the description area below to any other videos you call out to so as to simplify the process of searching the associated content, thanks
Wow that spring is long.
Does anyone know what the original production cost was for these rifles?
So if you open the bolt with the gun on safe the bolt locks back? Does the selector become a bolt release then?
This video reminds me... wonder what's happening with that semi auto STG-44.
IIRC, you couldn't completely open the bolt with the safety on (only moved a little).
@@RCZM64 Ok thanks
It amazes me how little the mechanical systems haven't changed that much since the second world war. ThankQ. TkEZ》UK
I knew they were similar, but it's still fun just _how_ much like the G3 I had in 2002 this is.
I heard that the gun that lost to the M27 iar fired with a close bolt but switches to open bolt when it gets hot. Any chance we will ever see that?
After seeing the open bolt mechanism I spent the rest of the video imagining how bad an open bolt MP5 would have been...and died a little bit inside.
Might just be my TV, but the right side of the ejection port is fuzzy and keeps changing size lol
Left handed selector lever, interesting.
So what happens if you switch from full to semi? Just a round gets chambered?
It’s modelo time foo!
Its modelo time!
I'm curious as to why they went with such a short sight radius, when it would appear to be not necessary to have to do that.
Could it have been because of the serious weight constraints they were under?
That's about where they had it on the sturmgewehr so I guess the idea of a peep sight hadn't caught on with the design team yet.
The front sight is located on the gas block, a which is fixed (yes I know it can be removed, but not under field stripping) and therefore stable and out of the way, unlike if it was positioned out on the barrel.
The rear sight, is located on the bolt carrier group guide/ recoil spring guide, which is also pretty well fixed to the barrel unit, which would not be dismantled as part of field stripping.
If the rear sight would be positioned on the rear of the receiver unit, the end of which is removed each time the rifle is field stripped. The sight radius might be short, but it’s long enough to provide design standards accuracy. This also the concept with the AK pattern rifle,, it inherently accurate enough for its design standards, but if you locate the rear sight in a relatively imprecise rear cover, repeatability is not assured.
After all, just how accurate does your sighting system need to be for it’s designed use?
@@charlesadams1721 Well certainly I wasn't talking about the position of the front sight, but the rear. The rear sights on the B and later models where further back on the receiver right in front of where the rear comes apart, So obviously this issue was addressed at some point, it is just rather curios why they would go the route they did when they didn't have to, perhaps familiarity, or perhaps hindsight is 20/20.
@@Reactordrone I suppose this is my theory, even though the idea works as well with a tangent sight as it does with a peep (that being that a longer sight radius is better for accuracy). I suppose maybe they were just familiar with this set up which was necessitated by the smaller real estate on the rear of receivers on the older bolt guns (that or split bridge receivers).
Qué hace ahí el aguilucho? Vais, vais.
I like the look of that L2A1 on the wall (top-left most gun) or it's a C2A1 (Canadian L2)
So what happens if you try to switch from full auto to semi? Does the bolt slam forward?