Already joined the 179 day non tax resident status…now even considering withdrawing my 800,000 Thai baht ….I really don’t need a retirement visa if I only stay 179 days….its convenient for now…I want to stay out of all this mess until it’s sorted luckily I’m still young enough to travel….Word to the wise …don’t burn all your bridges in your home country…good luck!
If your tax resident single’s have to file a tax return if you have an income in Thailand of more than 120,000 THB and married filing as couple it is 220,000 THB. This is regardless of if you have any tax to pay or not. There are plenty of sources on the internet that give tax deductibles and allowance list and any income brought from overseas will be subject to DTA’s. The provincial tax offices have people who are there to answer any queries you have and I got all mine answered when I visited mine in Udon Thani. So what more clarification do you need.
@@IsaanMan In the UK you have a tax free personal allowance of £12,570 about 550,000B so if you remit this to Thailand you would be liable to tax on approx 430,000B at varying scales until the DTA kicks in, IMO, am I wrong?
As time goes by Thailand is less and less on my radar as a place where I will retire to with a lot of money to spend. My wife is thai and she's been living in Australia for 25 years already and she's not keen either. Malaysia looks good. Why would the Thai government want to shoot itself in the foot and destroy foreign income? Hmmm.. control. Just like here in Australia, compliance by penalisation
I left AU in 98 and have lived in Thailand since 2006 (after first crossing the border from Malaysia in 1984). Every time I have visited australia I notice it is more and more like the states, a police state with rules and regulations that are just stupid....no way would I want to go back there to live and my Thai wife of 22 years also doesn't like that idea. If you love Thailand then it's pointless living in neighbouring countries because they ain't Thailand......and your Thai family most likely will not be there because they will likely be in Thailand!!!! Malaysia and just about every country is going down the exact same path regarding tax for residents, so there will be no joy there for those hoping to avoid tax. I love Thailand and i'd say it's even better now than when I came here as a wide eyed youngster back in 84, probably a lot of that has to do with because my wife and children are here and because I live here. It's still just such a laid back country where you can just chill and "Mai Bpen Rai" is even more so relevant and true than "no worries mate". I spent a couple of years in Malaysia in the 80's and nineties. Many fond memories and the Malay Indian food is still my favourite to this day........plus, without going to Malaysia I never would have come to Thailand, at least not back then :)
Because they know, people will still flood into Thailand or Asia in general. I don’t know the numbers, but beeing in Thailand and see the change, it feels like people from the west come and won’t leave anymore.
Still in the US and will leave regardless of who wins the election. Malaysian won me over, hands down. KL is stunning and affordable without the tax hassle. And I can still take the train to Thailand and Indonesia is a short and inexpensive flight. I’m sold.
@@tonythaiger93 foreigners who brought their income in the country the same year were already taxable . Nobody complained that Thailand never enforced it . And foreigners always overinflated their importance in thailands economy anyway
@@donsaderfield83 exactly but still. It's stupid move from thai gov side. It's like - "now I have other clients so fuck you" move - based on personal experience - shitty move that usually fire back at you in 2 to 5 years. :) But overall I agree.
@@CrisKonieczny but did u complain when somebody who retired in Thailand and repatriated his home pension to Thailand the same year as he received the pay out ( and hence was taxable - unless the DTA would prevent it ) was not taxed because the Thai tax department never actually acted upon it .All these pensioners should be thankful or can be called dumb because they didn’t know the laws of the country . Can’t have it both ways . The reason why Thailand , maybe not immediately, will be more serious is because now that have tools to enforce it , being member of CRS and FETCA . And it baffles me that people think this is aimed at foreigners .its aimed at foreigners and Thai alike . Rich Thai were given a free ride 45 years ago.
Us long term expats living in the Kingdom are getting tired of being continually smacked about the ears. The Thai government better be thinking long and hard about any proposal that would drive a quite reasonably large percentage of their income away, to other foreign shores...
@@tanthamanthat’s exactly what I have been saying all along. But some just can’t or won’t see it for what it is. People they want us out of the country all together. Except for when you visit for 2 weeks. The whole point of these tax laws, new visas and a digital currency system. Are to kill the night life and to rid the country of the budget retirees. Plain and simple.
The fallout will be a mass exodus of current ex-pats, and it will be a big deterrence for any future ex-pats. Why would anyone want to be bothered with additional tax headaches and hassles? That will be on the minds of most people, and they will conclude that it's not worth it.
Personally, just filing another tax return, in addition to my US tax requirements, would be the tipping point for me no longer residing in Thailand. Go where you are treated best :)
@@freddieclark Which is funny because the genocidal US pariah state is in fact more communist-like than 80% of nations in the world today - including much more rapidly growing nations that call themselves communist but aren't commyunist anymore such as Vietnam and China.
Sheesh, do you actually know what communism is? A proposed tax on foreign residents is not communistic in any way, ....just about every country in the world requires residents (those who live in the country for more than 180 days per year) to file tax returns.
Theres a major issue with any tax ideas aimed at immigrants. We do not have any representation, , there can be no taxation without representation. If we are going to be herded around for tax on top of all the bureacratic fees for a migrant living in Thailand, theres little point to be here. In order to tax immigrant residents we need the same rights as locals, then I suspect everyone will be happy to pay. I want and need to own land. I need to be able to get bank loans. I need to be able to get the same treatment as Thais in terms of benefits not just costs.
True if I have to pay for it then I want all the same access and rights as a Thai citizen. Except for voting of course. But I should at least be able to own land and own 100% of a Thai business.
"@IsaanMan Expats and Immigrants are not the same. Immigrants have obtained permanent resident status or citizenship while Expats are those who stay in a foreign Country on temporary status regardless how many times that is renewed or extended and most of us have Non Immigrant stamped on our visas which tells you Thailand classes us Expats not immigrants. " Really? So is that a legal distinction? Yet there is no realistic path for most of us to be anything but "expats" then, nd we have very few rights over then said immigrants? Still seems like a form of abuse!
The fallout will be a mass exodus of current ex-pats, and it will be a big deterrence for any future ex-pats. Why would anyone want to be bothered with additional tax headaches and hassles? That will be on the minds of most people, and they will conclude that it's not worth it.
The fact that they even talk about it, is seriously scary and non attractive to plan an expatriation to Thailand nowadays... Sad to see Thailand having so much ties with the WEF
If it is eventually a foregone conclusion in the future, then those who remain will reduce spending, reduce the amount they remit into the Kingdom. People who benefited from expat spending into the Thai community, partners, their family members, car dealers, condo sellers, shop owners, domestic tourism, etc, will all see a reduction in spending. Nobody in their right sane mind is going to just 'suck it up' and pay this extra big chunk of taxes that most expats will be subjected to. Other countries are beckoning us to go there now. In the meantime, this year I have cut back on spending, reduced what I remit into the Kingdom from my country and preparing to leave if I have to. An incoming remittance tax with zero benefit at all to the expat Thai tax resident. Why stay? Some of course are caught in a bind as they are married, have kids, etc. The rest of us will just leave.
Or you can live in "1 year in, 1 year out" mode when you come in the beginning of July and leave in the end of June so that each year's portion is less than 180 days. Live 1 year in Thailand, then 1 year in Cambodia or something like that.
@@SvirepiyBambr-xw8rw for most expats retired that's going to be unsustainable long term. Cannot properly settle and live a normal retired life, build friendships, relationships, be part of a community, own a vehicle, have a proper home, etc. Younger guys yes for sure. And some older expats may be ok with it. I think if this tax crap happens, it's best to 'pull up stumps' and get the hell out of Thailand so that we can start a proper decent life somewhere else.
My 12 month retirement visa comes up for renewal in January 2025, I would hope the Thai Government can clarify the tax situation on my meagre UK pension frozen 11 years ago before then.
Worth thinking about The Philippines you can move there and get "the triple lock" not sure if it kicks in moving from a country outside the triple lock to one that is, but worth looking into.
I'm retired. I'm not paying taxes if I'm living in Thailand but not working. There are plenty of other countries for me to retire in. Especially, the Philippines. They love retirees and visa requirement is cake to live in Philippines long term. This is one of the reasons why I don't mind renting. I can up and go anytime I feel like it...they can keep the security deposit.
@@jw841 Im retired in Thailand. I dont agree. I dont have a problem buying a place here. It is my base. It is my place. If i want to travel anywhere I do so. I have my base waiting for me. Rent prices are increasing in Thailand, its cost effective for me to buy.
@@nickmondo222 I agree, me too! My condo is not luxurious, and it wasn't expensive....but it is mine and nobody can take it away from me..I feel safe knowing I have my own roof over my head - but agree, not a great investment if one wants to sell for profit!!
@@nickmondo222 Just out of curiosity: is it safe to leave a condo closed and unoccupied for 6 months or a year? I am thinking about mold. It would be a nasty surprise to return to my condo after 1 year being away and find the walls covered in black mold...
Dealing with tax and accountants in your own country is bad enough but having to be involved with more thai bureaucracy, I'm sure some people will have had enough.
Of course there will be middlemen out there to file for you for a fee, just like agents who help foreigners extend their visas. A new ploy with levels of corruption waiting to blossom.
I am a retired Australian who lives off of his Superannuation Fund (private pension). I paid taxes on the money going into the fund. At 60 you are entitled to a tax free pension from these retirement funds, tax has been paid already. So to me my thoughts are why is Thailand trying to tax me on my tax paid pension when even my own country doesn't? This is just not right. There is no way I would ever live in Thailand pernamently if they brought this in. It would be no more than 179 days for each financial year, it's a shame really as retiring there full time would have been nice.
It's a nasty Dual Taxation Agreement we have between Thailand and Australia, as it fails to see that certain countries structure their retirement funds very differently. In Australia we are pre-taxed during accumulation phase in our Superannuation funds and the incentive to have a tax-free pension has always been so as to save and contribute to your Superannuation fund and therefore not to be a burden to the Australian government when retired. Otherwise we rely on the Government old age pension. It is a biased unfair system as well because certain government employee pensions and military pensions are exempted. Why should we also not be exempted? I'm not going to have my hard earned pension money after all these years, then being taxed by a foreign government. And my Super Fund I have sacrificed other things in life to make sure I have a nice pension to live off. And in Thailand that equates to around 25% tax of my pension. That is absolutely robbery. Nope. Won't stay here. Just won't. And Thailand don't even offer anything in return. Nothing whatsoever. What a joke.
@@jeffh3984 all the income the fund earns is also tax free (including capital gains), not just the money that you draw out. Thailand wants to tax every baht coming into the country within their thresholds. So basically if you remit over 120K THB they want to tax it. Not for me, I'll just do 179 days there and then go back to Australia for the summer.
@@somchais2100 a tax agreement that states in Article 18 of DTA that your pension will be taxed if not taxed already. Private pensions from Super and old age government pensions will be subject to tax. Military and some government employee pensions won't be.
Im here on tourist visa and preparing for an expensive operation thats self pay ... Ive just cancelled the operation and will goto another... Even if the medical costs can be written off i just dont want to have a tax ID and be part of system that gives no rights no vote etc
“ even if the medical costs can be written off “. No , they can’t , but unless your operation would mean you have to stay more than 179 days , there is no issue .
People forget retirement in Thailand, I've seen 46yrs of flip flops on tax, visas now the ETAs departure tax and god knows what, just go for a long holiday, no stress
Thailand is finished. So thankful I sold all my assets here years ago. Moving to a tax free country & will pop back for 3-5 months going forward. Stay low, move fast....
There aren't many "tax free" countries ....most countries that are livable require residents to file tax returns, probably including your home country.
@@aeroAdvocate "Which country would that be?" There's a few....but none have the cuisine, nightlife, culture, scenery, beaches at a relatively low cost that Thailand does
I'm not sure if its the same around the whole of Thailand, but when renewing my visa I have to show a full 12 months of my banking details. Every transaction.
In the Philippines they speak English and they do not tax foreign income of resident aliens. If you are working in the Philippines you will be taxed by the Philippines, but in this day and age if you can't go on a workaction for two months in a place like Dubai to do a lot of work for your company that will let it earn money for you the other ten months of the year you need a better business model.
Thailand Gov't. When us foreigners retire in Thailand we essentially import our money into the Thai economy. This adds up to vast sums of money over time. If you tax foreigners you are very likely going to loose money as they leave Thailand to find alternative retirement friendly countries.
Thailand imposing these taxes is why I will soon be retiring to the Philippines. I may stay in Thailand for up to four months a year, Keeping a wide margin from reaching where I may be taxed, but I will not be staying there permanently. My yearly spending will be north of six figures in dollars. Most of that will not be spent in Thailand due to the proposed taxes and constantly changing visa laws. I have better things to do with my time than to play those games.
A couple years ago I considered getting the Thai elite platinum ten year visa 1,500,000 baht ( about $45,000 usd ) something in the back of my head said “ don’t do it “,.. now I know why . I’m curious if those that did buy the 10 year visa , and are now “ tied” to the country , will they be grandfathered in from having to pay tens of thousands of dollars in taxes if this goes through ?….. if not, it would appear that they were taken hook , line , and sinker
True I suspect they are regretting. Lesson here: We are visitors here. I never understand the folks that expect the same rights and benefits as the country they come from, the rules and laws are not set up for us. Such as I want to own land, build a house, get a loan etc. Best not to own anything your not willing to walk away from, not bring large some's of money here, and be prepared to leave ( have a plan B) if you need to as changes happen and you have no control over them. This is a Kingdom not your Country. This applies to me also.
Ben..Great content, spoke with passion and heart. Thai..Land. Not for sale. Not for Authorised. Not for Rule from Thieves. Free. Just. Thai..Land For Thai people, their families, their community, their love of the land, the fruits of their labour. God bless the Thai people. Freedom is theirs by right , by Land, by family, by labour that the land grants gifts not Oligarchs. Well done Ben for talking up against this Tyranny as a Thai Citizen who rightfully loves Thailand xx
Will just spend less than 180 days per year in Thailand to avoid filling out a slave report and being extorted. This makes buying a condo there less appealing so the real estate market will take a hit.
Already done this, less than 180 days already in Thailand. I would never buy a Condo here to begin with. Easy to Buy hard to Sell and this is now probably more so.
Thank you. Thailand / America (and 59 other countries) have an agreement. The agreement says that each government willl Not charge the individual as the Origion government taxes their income already.
Not always true. Depends on the text of the agreement: Some tax-agreements give only a reductionof some kind if income is already taxed in an other country and is or gets taxed in the other country too. The 100% way to surely escape this idiotic idea of the Thai government is staying there no more the 179 days a year. Many other and i.m.o. getting better by the minute countries in the region to spend ones time and money.
A hell of a lot more nuanced than that. There are exemptions to pre-taxed remittances and certain pensions (e.g. some government and military and US Social Security). But other sources of funds that are not taxed (many pensions, capital gains in many countries, savings from various untaxed sources, tax offsets in your own country may not be recognized in Thailand, etc).
I agree with the other comments. Not so simple. My income, for instance, will be taxes in the US AND in Thailand up to the Thai rates for my amount of income. Double taxation is alive and well.
@@silknoben5984 exactly right. my own experience with dual tax is usa-canada. i can deduct the us tax i paid on us investments then pay cdn tax on the remainder. for example if 25% us tax i still pay cdn tax on 75%. if cdn tax rate is 40% then my total tax is 55% - over half! people seem to think that having paid tax in their country they wont have to pay more under the relevant tax agreement. far from it!
Seems like they more concerned what they can raise in funds in the short run versus what it will cost them in the long run. Think the system will turn back around, from trendy policies based on WEF ideology. They want to kill cash and digitize the lot but first need to extract mass amounts of cash all around. Hope people will be reasonable before they go too far to turn back.
You are 100% spot on. Thailand cannot go through with this, if they want to grow as a nation. This would be a huge step backwards. The impact will be too severe. However, the change of government did come at a very good time. As I see it, there is no way this current government will let this proposal go into effect.
Well there is at least one law office to advertise this is going to come and they are more than glad to help you....for a decent payment to be paid of course
Thailand needs to balance the books.We all know whether right or wrong they are coming for the Farang.My good friend Fuzzy Ken from Udon Thani saw it and moved lock stock to Cambodia. ( Ken has lived here since 2002 )
@@testicool013 I can only assume it's one of the girls who have kept it open..I remember the old Falang alley.Before they built the new one by Top Mansion / Irish clock..2007 I think
I was going to make a trial move to Thailand within the next few years to decide if that could be my retirement spot. After watching this video I will be following any changes that will most likely affect my financial freedoms in the future. I like most am looking to stay within my budget in a low cost lifestyle due to my income and any taxation of income I've already paid in the U.S. is not acceptable to me and I will end up seeking other options.
Say what you will about the last govt but they had immigration in my area doing the job per the requirements, especially visa extensions for retirees. Now with the new govt it is hands out and party again. Blatantly.
A Non-O visa is not resident! It should be people with thai passport then?! And why pay tax when you get nothing? If I pay tax I should get something, like free health care, passport, similar threatment as thai citizens etc. Otherwise why should I pay anything?! Other countries you get something. They don't understanding we spend money here etc?! I just paid 70,000 thb for my stepson so he can go to Taiwan and work! Ridicoulus this!
It’s too complicated and harassment to tax non citizens. Instead just implement a simple 300 us fee if you chose to stay beyond 179 days. Otherwise this all feels disgusting
Cha cha Benjamin. How to say it politely? 🤔 Let's try: 1. "Thai logic" is sometimes not easy to understand (in other words, they may do it regardless of whether we think it helps or hurts). 2. Thai people are not known for buying "foreign wisdom" easily (don't blame foreign institutions too quickly). 3. How many times have we heard announcements that are repeated over and over again, but nothing ever happens (road safety, burning season, etc.). I like your content, just wonder if your emotions will convince any Thai politician or bureaucrat. 😀 Anyway: 👍🙏
While I don't dispute your message, I wonder why other lawyers are stating that the tax law has already been legislated and is happening. I wonder, wonder why their message is contrary to your message. What possibly would they have to gain from that. You guessed it!
My thoughts exactly. With all the confusion early on in the year I decided to be out of Thailand 181 days in 2024 to wait and see what happens. Maybe we will see maybe not going into 2025.
I like you! You have a good handle on the world and what has brought down the West. ;) I'm going to call you if I end up retiring there or staying for any extended period of time. Thanks for the message.
It's still a nothingburger, but thanks for the update. I retired at 50 due to investing wisely and moved to Thailand and own properties here. If they pass this nonsense tax bill and if it affects us I will simply buy a home in a different country and live there for half the year. Taxation with no representation and no benefits...no thank you! My gut tells me the paperwork headache, the push back, and when the expat money leaves the economy it will cause them to reevaluate things and make amendments. Like many things here, the critical thinking and necessary details come after the shitshow. Hopefully, nobody will lose face, if that happens it could stick around longer than we might expect.
Yes thank you for the insight of information May I add I’m Australian Australia has an agreement with the Thai government that Australian people who are on a pension and now reside in Thailand are NOT taxed by the Thai government But that doesn’t mean that the current Thai government may try to change things But the commentary from Siam Legal is spot on
So anyone thinking of retiring here with a 75000-100000 baht monthly pension from their home country that they would have injected into the local economy will almost certainly reconsider retiring here. Yes no? or am I missing something?
Malaysia has just announced that they will extend their no income tax on foreigners remittances for another 10 years - as long as the money has been subject to taxes in the other country.
True from what I understand but you still need to file a tax return even with no tax due. But with Ben's comments about proposed and such language, is one of the reasons I decided to stay out of Thailand 181 days in 2024.
![Lethal Company Music Video 🎵 "Follow The Orders" [VERSION A]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QeooZB4Z7RA/mqdefault.jpg)
Thailand, please don't destroy the goodwill you've garnered through the years...
The fallout will be a mass exodus. Why bother with additional headaches and hassles? That will be on the minds of most people.
Bargirls can only do so Much😂😂😂😂
👍 smells like the World €nslav€m€nt Forum
Obviously 🙄 the signs has been there like forever what surprises me the most is that the majority of people are still in denial
Already joined the 179 day non tax resident status…now even considering withdrawing my 800,000 Thai baht ….I really don’t need a retirement visa if I only stay 179 days….its convenient for now…I want to stay out of all this mess until it’s sorted luckily I’m still young enough to travel….Word to the wise …don’t burn all your bridges in your home country…good luck!
I’ve done the same, it’s now earning 5% at call in Australia
@@MikeyInThailand Exactly, Thailand is NOT the country to earn $$
The fallout will be a mass exodus. Why bother with additional headaches and hassles? That will be on the minds of most people.
Thanks for the “don’t burn all your bridges in your home country” advice, I was ready to do that
@@MikeyInThailand '...earning 5%...'?!
And losing value double to triple that from inflation.
Yes another rreason to never invest in Thailand.
One of your best ! It’s quite unfortunate that we are less than 3 months away from 2025 and still have no clarification.
It's not surprising. I won't care until thai people get busted by revenue agents
If your tax resident single’s have to file a tax return if you have an income in Thailand of more than 120,000 THB and married filing as couple it is 220,000 THB. This is regardless of if you have any tax to pay or not. There are plenty of sources on the internet that give tax deductibles and allowance list and any income brought from overseas will be subject to DTA’s. The provincial tax offices have people who are there to answer any queries you have and I got all mine answered when I visited mine in Udon Thani. So what more clarification do you need.
@@IsaanMan Looks like Thailand will start raking in a lot of money from expats going forward.
@@IsaanMan In the UK you have a tax free personal allowance of £12,570
about 550,000B so if you remit this to Thailand you would be liable to tax on approx 430,000B at varying scales until the DTA kicks in, IMO, am I wrong?
@@IsaanMan Ok so If you have no money coming in and you are living on prior brought in savings you don't need to file anything
As time goes by Thailand is less and less on my radar as a place where I will retire to with a lot of money to spend. My wife is thai and she's been living in Australia for 25 years already and she's not keen either. Malaysia looks good.
Why would the Thai government want to shoot itself in the foot and destroy foreign income? Hmmm.. control. Just like here in Australia, compliance by penalisation
3 yrs watching about ready to leave USA so I can afford to live 🕵🤔💚🌵
I left AU in 98 and have lived in Thailand since 2006 (after first crossing the border from Malaysia in 1984). Every time I have visited australia I notice it is more and more like the states, a police state with rules and regulations that are just stupid....no way would I want to go back there to live and my Thai wife of 22 years also doesn't like that idea.
If you love Thailand then it's pointless living in neighbouring countries because they ain't Thailand......and your Thai family most likely will not be there because they will likely be in Thailand!!!!
Malaysia and just about every country is going down the exact same path regarding tax for residents, so there will be no joy there for those hoping to avoid tax.
I love Thailand and i'd say it's even better now than when I came here as a wide eyed youngster back in 84, probably a lot of that has to do with because my wife and children are here and because I live here. It's still just such a laid back country where you can just chill and "Mai Bpen Rai" is even more so relevant and true than "no worries mate".
I spent a couple of years in Malaysia in the 80's and nineties. Many fond memories and the Malay Indian food is still my favourite to this day........plus, without going to Malaysia I never would have come to Thailand, at least not back then :)
Because they know, people will still flood into Thailand or Asia in general. I don’t know the numbers, but beeing in Thailand and see the change, it feels like people from the west come and won’t leave anymore.
The fallout will be a mass exodus. Why bother with additional headaches and hassles? That will be on the minds of most people.
Still in the US and will leave regardless of who wins the election. Malaysian won me over, hands down. KL is stunning and affordable without the tax hassle. And I can still take the train to Thailand and Indonesia is a short and inexpensive flight. I’m sold.
Kiss goodbye to condo development if they begin to crack down
Russians and Chinese will come ;)
@@tonythaiger93 foreigners who brought their income in the country the same year were already taxable . Nobody complained that Thailand never enforced it . And foreigners always overinflated their importance in thailands economy anyway
Dumb comment the Chinese snd Russian buy many more condos then old man expat.
@@donsaderfield83 exactly but still. It's stupid move from thai gov side. It's like - "now I have other clients so fuck you" move - based on personal experience - shitty move that usually fire back at you in 2 to 5 years. :)
But overall I agree.
@@CrisKonieczny but did u complain when somebody who retired in Thailand and repatriated his home pension to Thailand the same year as he received the pay out ( and hence was taxable - unless the DTA would prevent it ) was not taxed because the Thai tax department never actually acted upon it .All these pensioners should be thankful or can be called dumb because they didn’t know the laws of the country . Can’t have it both ways .
The reason why Thailand , maybe not immediately, will be more serious is because now that have tools to enforce it , being member of CRS and FETCA .
And it baffles me that people think this is aimed at foreigners .its aimed at foreigners and Thai alike . Rich Thai were given a free ride 45 years ago.
Us long term expats living in the Kingdom are getting tired of being continually smacked about the ears. The Thai government better be thinking long and hard about any proposal that would drive a quite reasonably large percentage of their income away, to other foreign shores...
You sound butthurt
It would stop almost all retirement plans that anyone had to retire in Thailand. Bizarre plan/proposal.
That's the point
@@tanthamanthat’s exactly what I have been saying all along. But some just can’t or won’t see it for what it is.
People they want us out of the country all together. Except for when you visit for 2 weeks.
The whole point of these tax laws, new visas and a digital currency system.
Are to kill the night life and to rid the country of the budget retirees. Plain and simple.
The fallout will be a mass exodus of current ex-pats, and it will be a big deterrence for any future ex-pats. Why would anyone want to be bothered with additional tax headaches and hassles? That will be on the minds of most people, and they will conclude that it's not worth it.
You are an invaluable asset to your profession for the good of all
Personally, just filing another tax return, in addition to my US tax requirements, would be the tipping point for me no longer residing in Thailand. Go where you are treated best :)
Every country requires residents to file a tax return each year.....if you're a resident, you have to file returns and pay taxes.
The WEF sowing the seeds of unrest.
Pride part of that shit. Divide and destroy.
Yea if you understand the level of Communism involved in WEF . He just said the infiltration of Communist rule involvement.
They need more money, the changes proposed are to extract it from whatever source they can, tax everyone living or dead.
They don't need more money, they want people to have no money and dependent on them.
Never heard an anti-commie rant that I didn't love!
Never heard an American who didn't use the term 'commie' for anything they didn't like.
@@freddieclark Which is funny because the genocidal US pariah state is in fact more communist-like than 80% of nations in the world today - including much more rapidly growing nations that call themselves communist but aren't commyunist anymore such as Vietnam and China.
The fallout will be a mass exodus. Why bother with additional headaches and hassles? That will be on the minds of most people.
Exactly
Sheesh, do you actually know what communism is? A proposed tax on foreign residents is not communistic in any way, ....just about every country in the world requires residents (those who live in the country for more than 180 days per year) to file tax returns.
Retires have legs and can move to other more welcoming countries.
There won't be any.
The WEF influences everywhere.
They're not stupid.
Theres a major issue with any tax ideas aimed at immigrants. We do not have any representation, , there can be no taxation without representation. If we are going to be herded around for tax on top of all the bureacratic fees for a migrant living in Thailand, theres little point to be here. In order to tax immigrant residents we need the same rights as locals, then I suspect everyone will be happy to pay. I want and need to own land. I need to be able to get bank loans. I need to be able to get the same treatment as Thais in terms of benefits not just costs.
True if I have to pay for it then I want all the same access and rights as a Thai citizen. Except for voting of course. But I should at least be able to own land and own 100% of a Thai business.
"@IsaanMan
Expats and Immigrants are not the same. Immigrants have obtained permanent resident status or citizenship while Expats are those who stay in a foreign Country on temporary status regardless how many times that is renewed or extended and most of us have Non Immigrant stamped on our visas which tells you Thailand classes us Expats not immigrants. " Really? So is that a legal distinction? Yet there is no realistic path for most of us to be anything but "expats" then, nd we have very few rights over then said immigrants? Still seems like a form of abuse!
The fallout will be a mass exodus of current ex-pats, and it will be a big deterrence for any future ex-pats. Why would anyone want to be bothered with additional tax headaches and hassles? That will be on the minds of most people, and they will conclude that it's not worth it.
The fact that they even talk about it, is seriously scary and non attractive to plan an expatriation to Thailand nowadays... Sad to see Thailand having so much ties with the WEF
If it is eventually a foregone conclusion in the future, then those who remain will reduce spending, reduce the amount they remit into the Kingdom. People who benefited from expat spending into the Thai community, partners, their family members, car dealers, condo sellers, shop owners, domestic tourism, etc, will all see a reduction in spending. Nobody in their right sane mind is going to just 'suck it up' and pay this extra big chunk of taxes that most expats will be subjected to.
Other countries are beckoning us to go there now.
In the meantime, this year I have cut back on spending, reduced what I remit into the Kingdom from my country and preparing to leave if I have to.
An incoming remittance tax with zero benefit at all to the expat Thai tax resident. Why stay? Some of course are caught in a bind as they are married, have kids, etc. The rest of us will just leave.
Or you can live in "1 year in, 1 year out" mode when you come in the beginning of July and leave in the end of June so that each year's portion is less than 180 days.
Live 1 year in Thailand, then 1 year in Cambodia or something like that.
@@SvirepiyBambr-xw8rw for most expats retired that's going to be unsustainable long term. Cannot properly settle and live a normal retired life, build friendships, relationships, be part of a community, own a vehicle, have a proper home, etc.
Younger guys yes for sure. And some older expats may be ok with it.
I think if this tax crap happens, it's best to 'pull up stumps' and get the hell out of Thailand so that we can start a proper decent life somewhere else.
@@tyvid Yes, after several repetitions this jumping around becomes a tedious chore. Especially for older people...
@@tyvid I won't stay long term. Maybe do the 179 days one final year and then bounce and not come back. Other places to see in the world.
My 12 month retirement visa comes up for renewal in January 2025, I would hope the Thai Government can clarify the tax situation on my meagre UK pension frozen 11 years ago before then.
Worth thinking about The Philippines you can move there and get "the triple lock" not sure if it kicks in moving from a country outside the triple lock to one that is, but worth looking into.
@@mjc8281You can go back to the UK and unfreeze your pension and then return. Not sure how long you have stay in the UK to do that though. Cheers
Spot on ,,,,world economic forum 👎👎👎
Turn out the lights, the party’s 🎉 over.
I'm retired. I'm not paying taxes if I'm living in Thailand but not working. There are plenty of other countries for me to retire in. Especially, the Philippines. They love retirees and visa requirement is cake to live in Philippines long term. This is one of the reasons why I don't mind renting. I can up and go anytime I feel like it...they can keep the security deposit.
The first advise I give expats in Thailand is never buy here and the second is never build someone a house. But most don't listen.
@@jw841 Im retired in Thailand. I dont agree. I dont have a problem buying a place here. It is my base. It is my place. If i want to travel anywhere I do so. I have my base waiting for me. Rent prices are increasing in Thailand, its cost effective for me to buy.
@@nickmondo222 I agree, me too! My condo is not luxurious, and it wasn't expensive....but it is mine and nobody can take it away from me..I feel safe knowing I have my own roof over my head - but agree, not a great investment if one wants to sell for profit!!
@@nickmondo222 Good for you but for every one good story I hear I've heard a hundred horror stories. Been here over 30 years now.
@@nickmondo222 Just out of curiosity: is it safe to leave a condo closed and unoccupied for 6 months or a year?
I am thinking about mold.
It would be a nasty surprise to return to my condo after 1 year being away and find the walls covered in black mold...
Dealing with tax and accountants in your own country is bad enough but having to be involved with more thai bureaucracy, I'm sure some people will have had enough.
Of course there will be middlemen out there to file for you for a fee, just like agents who help foreigners extend their visas. A new ploy with levels of corruption waiting to blossom.
I am a retired Australian who lives off of his Superannuation Fund (private pension). I paid taxes on the money going into the fund. At 60 you are entitled to a tax free pension from these retirement funds, tax has been paid already. So to me my thoughts are why is Thailand trying to tax me on my tax paid pension when even my own country doesn't? This is just not right. There is no way I would ever live in Thailand pernamently if they brought this in. It would be no more than 179 days for each financial year, it's a shame really as retiring there full time would have been nice.
It's a nasty Dual Taxation Agreement we have between Thailand and Australia, as it fails to see that certain countries structure their retirement funds very differently. In Australia we are pre-taxed during accumulation phase in our Superannuation funds and the incentive to have a tax-free pension has always been so as to save and contribute to your Superannuation fund and therefore not to be a burden to the Australian government when retired. Otherwise we rely on the Government old age pension.
It is a biased unfair system as well because certain government employee pensions and military pensions are exempted. Why should we also not be exempted?
I'm not going to have my hard earned pension money after all these years, then being taxed by a foreign government. And my Super Fund I have sacrificed other things in life to make sure I have a nice pension to live off. And in Thailand that equates to around 25% tax of my pension. That is absolutely robbery. Nope. Won't stay here. Just won't. And Thailand don't even offer anything in return. Nothing whatsoever. What a joke.
not to be a nitpicker, but it doesn't seem like the pension is really tax free. it's just that you've already pad taxes on it.
@@jeffh3984 all the income the fund earns is also tax free (including capital gains), not just the money that you draw out. Thailand wants to tax every baht coming into the country within their thresholds. So basically if you remit over 120K THB they want to tax it. Not for me, I'll just do 179 days there and then go back to Australia for the summer.
You will be ok. Thailand/Aus have a tax agreement.
@@somchais2100 a tax agreement that states in Article 18 of DTA that your pension will be taxed if not taxed already. Private pensions from Super and old age government pensions will be subject to tax. Military and some government employee pensions won't be.
Im here on tourist visa and preparing for an expensive operation thats self pay ... Ive just cancelled the operation and will goto another... Even if the medical costs can be written off i just dont want to have a tax ID and be part of system that gives no rights no vote etc
@krathainoi As long you are not staying longer than 180 days in Thailand you are not Tax Resident.
“ even if the medical costs can be written off “. No , they can’t , but unless your operation would mean you have to stay more than 179 days , there is no issue .
Show me which country has a better healthcare system than Thailand in terms of hospital services and physician proficiency.
@@aeroAdvocate Malaysia, Singapore
You’re on fire Ben. Let em have it!!
If we have enough to tax at their extremely high rate brackets we have enough to leave.
I would never invest in Thailand in general but this is a very dumb idea.
Thanks for all the info. You're my go to for everything Thai politics. Keep up the good work.
People forget retirement in Thailand, I've seen 46yrs of flip flops on tax, visas now the ETAs departure tax and god knows what, just go for a long holiday, no stress
This time next year, there will be no travelling, just 15 minute cities!
@Boyeaton1 this time next year we will be millionaires
Thailand is finished. So thankful I sold all my assets here years ago. Moving to a tax free country & will pop back for 3-5 months going forward. Stay low, move fast....
Which country would that be?
There aren't many "tax free" countries ....most countries that are livable require residents to file tax returns, probably including your home country.
@@aeroAdvocate "Which country would that be?"
There's a few....but none have the cuisine, nightlife, culture, scenery, beaches at a relatively low cost that Thailand does
The more I look at Thailand the more it looks like it has truely been captured by the WEF.
Obviously
Well, now people start missing the millitay government Thailand had before all this shit happend.
Now that is a video ! Awesome work and great info. 🤘
The size of government would have to double to enact this. Tens of thousands of less dollars spent in the country by me if it happens.
This is true. An entire government entity would have to be created just to process all the returns.
I have never seen such a government that constantly flip flops on every issue.
Really, really very GOOD comments. Thank you for letting us stay current.
Kurt Prestegard
Welcome to Cambodia Ppl. Easy visa, easy to run a business or retire. Cambodia doors are open. Thai ruk Thai mai ruk farang.
Puying thai rak pom mak mak, pro wa pom ruay mak loie😂
I'm not sure if its the same around the whole of Thailand, but when renewing my visa I have to show a full 12 months of my banking details. Every transaction.
No you don't, they are only interested in the incoming foreign transfers, what easier way of showing that
You're showing them that you've maintained money in a Thai account. Different issue.
Just make it a sales tax if you have to do something, income tax is a BAD, BAD Idea.
Taxes on savings,hand-drawn maps and 90 day reporting to the Brown shirts…sweet retirement 😂👎
In the Philippines they speak English and they do not tax foreign income of resident aliens. If you are working in the Philippines you will be taxed by the Philippines, but in this day and age if you can't go on a workaction for two months in a place like Dubai to do a lot of work for your company that will let it earn money for you the other ten months of the year you need a better business model.
Thailand Gov't. When us foreigners retire in Thailand we essentially import our money into the Thai economy. This adds up to vast sums of money over time. If you tax foreigners you are very likely going to loose money as they leave Thailand to find alternative retirement friendly countries.
Ahhh, life is good...in Cambodia.
nice...
Foreign source income is taxed at 20% in Cambodia. Hope you are filing your tax returns
@@philipbarnard2474 The law is there in Cambodia. But not enforced.
It's a dustbowl
too many pedos
Words of wisdom Ben cool heads required.
Serious Question:
When they make you file a tax return,will they require a “hand drawn” map to your Bank like they do with 90 day reporting?
😂👎
Yeah Thailand may not be the place to invest and retire anymore, I was just considering buying a condo but its just not a stable country
Thailand imposing these taxes is why I will soon be retiring to the Philippines. I may stay in Thailand for up to four months a year, Keeping a wide margin from reaching where I may be taxed, but I will not be staying there permanently. My yearly spending will be north of six figures in dollars. Most of that will not be spent in Thailand due to the proposed taxes and constantly changing visa laws. I have better things to do with my time than to play those games.
A couple years ago I considered getting the Thai elite platinum ten year visa 1,500,000 baht ( about $45,000 usd ) something in the back of my head said “ don’t do it “,.. now I know why . I’m curious if those that did buy the 10 year visa , and are now “ tied” to the country , will they be grandfathered in from having to pay tens of thousands of dollars in taxes if this goes through ?….. if not, it would appear that they were taken hook , line , and sinker
Elite visa holders are tax exempt. That’s what I read.
A lot are already regretting getting it since the DTV has come in.
True I suspect they are regretting. Lesson here: We are visitors here. I never understand the folks that expect the same rights and benefits as the country they come from, the rules and laws are not set up for us. Such as I want to own land, build a house, get a loan etc. Best not to own anything your not willing to walk away from, not bring large some's of money here, and be prepared to leave ( have a plan B) if you need to as changes happen and you have no control over them. This is a Kingdom not your Country. This applies to me also.
Ben..Great content, spoke with passion and heart.
Thai..Land.
Not for sale.
Not for Authorised.
Not for Rule from Thieves.
Free.
Just.
Thai..Land
For Thai people, their families, their community, their love of the land, the fruits of their labour.
God bless the Thai people.
Freedom is theirs by right , by Land, by family, by labour that the land grants gifts not Oligarchs.
Well done Ben for talking up against this Tyranny as a Thai Citizen who rightfully loves Thailand xx
Will just spend less than 180 days per year in Thailand to avoid filling out a slave report and being extorted. This makes buying a condo there less appealing so the real estate market will take a hit.
Already done this, less than 180 days already in Thailand. I would never buy a Condo here to begin with. Easy to Buy hard to Sell and this is now probably more so.
Thank you. Thailand / America (and 59 other countries) have an agreement.
The agreement says that each government willl Not charge the individual as the
Origion government taxes their income already.
Not always true. Depends on the text of the agreement: Some tax-agreements give only a reductionof some kind if income is already taxed in an other country and is or gets taxed in the other country too. The 100% way to surely escape this idiotic idea of the Thai government is staying there no more the 179 days a year. Many other and i.m.o. getting better by the minute countries in the region to spend ones time and money.
A hell of a lot more nuanced than that. There are exemptions to pre-taxed remittances and certain pensions (e.g. some government and military and US Social Security). But other sources of funds that are not taxed (many pensions, capital gains in many countries, savings from various untaxed sources, tax offsets in your own country may not be recognized in Thailand, etc).
I agree with the other comments. Not so simple. My income, for instance, will be taxes in the US AND in Thailand up to the Thai rates for my amount of income. Double taxation is alive and well.
@@silknoben5984 exactly right. my own experience with dual tax is usa-canada. i can deduct the us tax i paid on us investments then pay cdn tax on the remainder. for example if 25% us tax i still pay cdn tax on 75%. if cdn tax rate is 40% then my total tax is 55% - over half! people seem to think that having paid tax in their country they wont have to pay more under the relevant tax agreement. far from it!
Seems like they more concerned what they can raise in funds in the short run versus what it will cost them in the long run. Think the system will turn back around, from trendy policies based on WEF ideology. They want to kill cash and digitize the lot but first need to extract mass amounts of cash all around. Hope people will be reasonable before they go too far to turn back.
Looks
Like tHailand is pressured by the global gangsters.
You are 100% spot on. Thailand cannot go through with this, if they want to grow as a nation. This would be a huge step backwards. The impact will be too severe. However, the change of government did come at a very good time. As I see it, there is no way this current government will let this proposal go into effect.
Thailand has shown they do not want you to stay there a long time. Just spend money and get out..
Goodbye Thailand.Hello Vietnam 😂😂😂
Well there is at least one law office to advertise this is going to come and they are more than glad to help you....for a decent payment to be paid of course
Thailand needs to balance the books.We all know whether right or wrong they are coming for the Farang.My good friend Fuzzy Ken from Udon Thani saw it and moved lock stock to Cambodia. ( Ken has lived here since 2002 )
His bookshop is still there
@@testicool013 I can only assume it's one of the girls who have kept it open..I remember the old Falang alley.Before they built the new one by Top Mansion / Irish clock..2007 I think
Love your videos and thought provoking commentary. But like, are you OK man?
Thank you for clearing this up.
Excellent '' up date '' of this important matter .
If there's a way to stuff things up, the Thai Govt will find it.
presently in receipt of an income in excess of 120,000 baht per annum = 10,000 baht per month?....surely not
insert Klaus Schwab evil laugh ....
I hope everything is decided before Jan 2027 which is my departure date to Thailand.
Uh oh.
I absolutely love your rage, Ben. I share it totally.
Klaus : "You will own nothing and you will be happy.." I believe "They will own nobody and they will be Unhappy"
Exactly. He said “you” not “we”.
Thailand has an agreement to people who don’t live in Thailand permanently for double taxation. This new law doesn’t apply to every U.S foreigners
thanks for your dissecting things for the laymen
If it happens, I'm going to the Philippines for 6 months or India Gaia for 6 months (or 3 + 3). Pollution for 3 months.
I was going to make a trial move to Thailand within the next few years to decide if that could be my retirement spot. After watching this video I will be following any changes that will most likely affect my financial freedoms in the future. I like most am looking to stay within my budget in a low cost lifestyle due to my income and any taxation of income I've already paid in the U.S. is not acceptable to me and I will end up seeking other options.
Say what you will about the last govt but they had immigration in my area doing the job per the requirements, especially visa extensions for retirees. Now with the new govt it is hands out and party again. Blatantly.
Give it to em Ben!
Don't touch that dial. Stay tuned for the continuing saga of flipflop
As Vietnam reves up to be abel to Handel the xpats that have had enough, I will take my money elsewhere
I'm in Vietnam
Thanks for this update, and smart comments, you made it simple for everyone to understand
Who's in charge Shiniwatra or the daughter.
Daddy.
The globalists overlords it seems.
A Non-O visa is not resident!
It should be people with thai passport then?!
And why pay tax when you get nothing? If I pay tax I should get something, like free health care, passport, similar threatment as thai citizens etc. Otherwise why should I pay anything?!
Other countries you get something.
They don't understanding we spend money here etc?! I just paid 70,000 thb for my stepson so he can go to Taiwan and work!
Ridicoulus this!
Ben, I just watched your interview with Doug Casey and Michael Yon. I've been following DC for over 20 years. Love his way of thinking.
They dont want you there unless they can extract big money from you.
There’s a saying a recall if you get rid of your good expats your left with the bad ones
It’s too complicated and harassment to tax non citizens. Instead just implement a simple 300 us fee if you chose to stay beyond 179 days. Otherwise this all feels disgusting
Cha cha Benjamin. How to say it politely? 🤔 Let's try: 1. "Thai logic" is sometimes not easy to understand (in other words, they may do it regardless of whether we think it helps or hurts). 2. Thai people are not known for buying "foreign wisdom" easily (don't blame foreign institutions too quickly). 3. How many times have we heard announcements that are repeated over and over again, but nothing ever happens (road safety, burning season, etc.). I like your content, just wonder if your emotions will convince any Thai politician or bureaucrat. 😀 Anyway: 👍🙏
Thanks for that video!
Falang big money You must pay.
Spot on as always sir. I couldn't agree more.
Superb video.
While I don't dispute your message, I wonder why other lawyers are stating that the tax law has already been legislated and is happening. I wonder, wonder why their message is contrary to your message. What possibly would they have to gain from that. You guessed it!
My thoughts exactly. With all the confusion early on in the year I decided to be out of Thailand 181 days in 2024 to wait and see what happens. Maybe we will see maybe not going into 2025.
Well said Ben.
Might take a break from Thailand I think
I like you! You have a good handle on the world and what has brought down the West. ;) I'm going to call you if I end up retiring there or staying for any extended period of time. Thanks for the message.
Excellent video and brilliant analysis and opinion
It's comical how many 'IFs', 'ANDs', and 'BUTs' there still are with these new tax law changes being proposed given how close we are to 2025. D'oh!
It's still a nothingburger, but thanks for the update. I retired at 50 due to investing wisely and moved to Thailand and own properties here. If they pass this nonsense tax bill and if it affects us I will simply buy a home in a different country and live there for half the year. Taxation with no representation and no benefits...no thank you! My gut tells me the paperwork headache, the push back, and when the expat money leaves the economy it will cause them to reevaluate things and make amendments. Like many things here, the critical thinking and necessary details come after the shitshow. Hopefully, nobody will lose face, if that happens it could stick around longer than we might expect.
Yes thank you for the insight of information
May I add
I’m Australian
Australia has an agreement with the Thai government that Australian people who are on a pension and now reside in Thailand are NOT taxed by the Thai government
But that doesn’t mean that the current Thai government may try to change things
But the commentary from Siam Legal is spot on
Thank you for some clarity Ben
So anyone thinking of retiring here with a 75000-100000 baht monthly pension from their home country that they would have injected into the local economy will almost certainly reconsider retiring here. Yes no? or am I missing something?
Yep, you got that right.
Cambodia awaits me if that’s ever the case
Malaysia has just announced that they will extend their no income tax on foreigners remittances for another 10 years - as long as the money has been subject to taxes in the other country.
As far as I know, US social security is exempt per the tax treaty. That is my only income.
True from what I understand but you still need to file a tax return even with no tax due. But with Ben's comments about proposed and such language, is one of the reasons I decided to stay out of Thailand 181 days in 2024.
@stevemorris3544 if they've changed the law. As it stands, no need to file without liability to pay.