"layperson analysis" = it's your money but it's not your money until you give a % to yet another government only here, you're not entitled to ANY benefits from this transaction against you. That sound about right?
Since I am planning to retire/move to Thailand 2024 I am very concerned about what the FACTS will be. When I sell my home in California I am forced to pay a capital gains tax, federal and state of aproximately 40%. That will equal about $300,000.!!! If I were taxed again on that capital gain in Thailand I might as well stay put in California and go down with the ship.
Don’t you have a once in a lifetime federal tax exemption for capital gains ($12.92 million per person in 2023)? I’m sure Gavin Newsome will have his hand out for the State of California.
It won’t work that way. It’s the same as having a green card but can never vote or getting any benefit until you become a citizen in the US. Paying tax? Green card holders pay it too.
Given the choices..... 1) Trust various internet comments. 2) Exert the energy to find the information myself.... hoping I'm correct. OR 3) Trust Ben. I pick number THREE ! Thanks Ben..... for making it clear and understandable.
While Integrity Legal chooses to provide us with ambiguous threats of possible Thailand tax liability beginning on January ๅ, 2024, who do you think financially benefits if we are each individually required to seek definitive tax advice from Ben or his legal team? I've looked elsewhere for the answer to this question as it relates to me, determining that, as a U.S. citizen, I will not be exposed to any additional tax liability on funds that I transfer from the United States into Thailand.
So, for new retirees it may make sense to spend less than 180 days in Thailand during the 1st tax year in order to transfer in the 800,00 baht (and however much extra money you want). Less than 180 days in a year could also be useful for transferring in funds for a condo, etc. (Depending how the tax treaties are applied in practice, though, this could all be mostly moot anyway).
Yes that solves it entirely - not a lot of fun for those that have to, lets see the condo market collapse after this change I have a couple they suck as investments as Thailand is very over priced for what you get if you have to do the above it sucks twice as hard.
There is an old adage which goes 'No taxation without representation!' I would really hope that if we are expected to contribute 'even more' in future, then the State would pick up our medical costs the same way that it does for Thai people. In that case our lagely overpriced medical insurances would no longer be necessary.... and we could use this insurance premium money to instead fund our taxes!
obviously more clarification is much needed! and if the new tax law does not explicitly state that foreigners or expat retirees are excluded, then the new tax could cover or applicable to them. some people think that double tax treaty provides a good shield. maybe there is a point most people do not understand fully. For example, one may not need to pay tax in a foreign country as tax allowance is much higher than that of thailand. Then what happens is that he may need to pay tax in thailand because the thai tax allowance threshold is so low. Also some tax items not taxed overseas could be taxed by thailand. So double tax treaty may not help
It seems to me that this old phrase applies... "If you want less of something tax it !" I'm just not clear if they want less monies coming into country or less expats?
Since U.S Va disability compensation is considered a retirement pension in Thailand and non taxable Income in the U.S. will that be considered taxable income in Thailand?
Currently Thailand has a tax treaty with the US to not double tax income. Until that is clarified I would say there’s not tax on already taxed income. Unless the treaty is ended.
Anybody have a good tax accountant recommendation in Chiang Mai? I am primarily retired but paying taxes in USA on rental income and may have some capital gains now and again on stock investment income that again I will be paying in USA. Am I going to be double taxed in Thailand? I have asked this question before but after watching nearly all of Integrity Thais videos I am still uncertain where I land in all this..
Subject to the pension provisions of Article 21 (Government Service), pensions and similar remuneration paid to a resident of a contracting State in consideration of past employment shall be taxable only in that State. The term “pensions and other similar remuneration” is understood to include both periodic and single sum payments. Example : A Thai resident receives a pension from a U.S. pension fund in connection with his past employment with a U.S. company. The pension is taxable only in Thailand. Notwithstanding the above, social security benefits and other similar public pensions paid by a Contracting State to a resident of the other Contracting State or a citizen of the United States shall be taxable only in the first-mentioned State. Example : An individual resident in Thailand receives a social security pension from the U.S. Government. The pension is taxable only in the United States. The reference to U.S. citizens is necessary to insure that a social security payment by the Thai government to a U.S. citizen who is not resident in the United States, will not be taxed by the United States. Annuities, as defined in the Convention, derived and beneficially owned by a resident of a Contracting State shall be taxable only in that State. Alimony, as defined in the Convention, paid to a resident of a Contracting State shall be taxable only in that State. Periodic payments, not being alimony, for the support of a child made pursuant to a
Great info. I'll be receiving both a Union Pension as well as Social Security. Do you happen to know if it's possible to get either one of those as a Direct deposit into a Thai bank?
Tax rules are different in every country, what may be a deduction or examption in one country might not be in another. You are bound by the rules of the cou try you are a tax resident in, not the country you make the money in. Most countries have tax treaties, where taxes already paid can be a deduction, so you end up paying the greater of the two tax bills, or the difference if you have already paid tax somewhere else.
The only clear thing so far is that there are no clear guidelines and all is very murky. Even skilled professionals like yourself can at best come up with some educated guesses and plausible scenarios. In my humble opinion the only sensible thing to do, if possible, is to wait and see. I believe that this lack of clear guidelines on the application of the existing laws and applicable tax treaties will have some negative impact on the Thai economy if it is not promptly addressed because of all of the capital coming from abroad being withheld for the time being. I imagine that it is not an irrelevant sum of money that is not entering the Thai economy, this can have an unfavorable domino effect.
According to the latest Thai tax revenue administration, today the Thai tax authorities want to apply the Thai tax scale to financial transfers to Thailand for 2024. In this hypothesis, we should therefore prepare our declarations to the Thai tax authorities during the first quarter of 2025 (deadline: 03/31/2025). The Thai authorities ensure that they apply the double taxation convention to the extent that the tax would be credited to the Thai tax (in proportion to the sums transferred). Benjamin, your commentary does not explain the definition of “Double Taxation”. As a US citizen, I am obligated to report all my revenues to the IRS, regardless of where the revenue originates. If one of my revenues does not originate from the US and is taxed by the county of origin, the amount of the tax is deducted from my US tax. This means the revenue is taxed only once. Thailand will tax all revenues wild working and living in Thailand. The amount of taxes to be paid to Thailand will be deducted from the US tax. Reading the latest understanding of the Thai tax revenue administration has a different understanding. The Thai tax administration separates your revenue declared to the IRS from the amount of money transferred to Thailand. The IRS tax is retained and is to be paid to the IRS. The Thai revenue tax is calculated on the amount transferred to Thailand per the Thai tax regulations. The difference between the money transferred between the US tax and the Thai tax is to be paid to the Thai Tax revenue. The US revenue is not double taxed, but is calculated with 2 different tax percentages, the US tax, and the Thai tax percentage. Benjamin, do I make sense?
We live here and every penny we spend in rent,food,drink,travel,medical insurance,car/bike insurance,goods and services goes directly into the Thai economy with no official government benefits in return…. We definitely contribute our fair share at the moment and don’t need to be bled for more.
Some are saying if you are a us pensioner and under the tax treaty not subject to double tax here that as your tax residency is in thai, therefore you are not subject to irs taxes as well. I know of 4 people who have filed amended returns and received full refunds on all taxes witheld for tax in the us under section 20 Is this true and what is your take on this
@@2000jago "Benefits of living in Thailand"? What the hell are you talking about? Foreigners do not receive benefits living in Thailand. We already paid too much. It's already very difficult to live in Thailand being it's very primitive and dysfunctional.
Why do you think any expat is here in the first place? I have the benefit of tax free Social Security I worked for my whole life which is not taxable. I should now be taxed on it in a third world country? Ain't gonna happen and I'm sure most expats would agree. I'll just go back to the good old USA.
Clear as mud.
"layperson analysis" = it's your money but it's not your money until you give a % to yet another government only here, you're not entitled to ANY benefits from this transaction against you. That sound about right?
Since I am planning to retire/move to Thailand 2024 I am very concerned about what the FACTS will be. When I sell my home in California I am forced to pay a capital gains tax, federal and state of aproximately 40%. That will equal about $300,000.!!! If I were taxed again on that capital gain in Thailand I might as well stay put in California and go down with the ship.
Put your money in a Swiss bank and use the ATM to get your money in Thailand...no tax...and no way to prove you are receiving anything.
Don't sell your house in California use it to house some migrants
Go down with the shi* you will.
To me, this is clear already you will not be double taxed.
Don’t you have a once in a lifetime federal tax exemption for capital gains ($12.92 million per person in 2023)? I’m sure Gavin Newsome will have his hand out for the State of California.
If we have to pay taxes here, we should also have the right for social benefits from the Thai government.
It will never happen, we are always outsiders
It won’t work that way. It’s the same as having a green card but can never vote or getting any benefit until you become a citizen in the US. Paying tax? Green card holders pay it too.
You're entitled to think your way....
Given the choices.....
1) Trust various internet comments.
2) Exert the energy to find the information myself.... hoping I'm correct.
OR
3) Trust Ben.
I pick number THREE !
Thanks Ben..... for making it clear and understandable.
While Integrity Legal chooses to provide us with ambiguous threats of possible Thailand tax liability beginning on January ๅ, 2024, who do you think financially benefits if we are each individually required to seek definitive tax advice from Ben or his legal team? I've looked elsewhere for the answer to this question as it relates to me, determining that, as a U.S. citizen, I will not be exposed to any additional tax liability on funds that I transfer from the United States into Thailand.
So you want a one size fits all determination for free !
Ben, you sound sick today. Feel better.
In EU you can take 10,000 euro with you when travel, without declaration, on arrival to Thailand have them changed to THB
So, for new retirees it may make sense to spend less than 180 days in Thailand during the 1st tax year in order to transfer in the 800,00 baht (and however much extra money you want). Less than 180 days in a year could also be useful for transferring in funds for a condo, etc. (Depending how the tax treaties are applied in practice, though, this could all be mostly moot anyway).
Yes that solves it entirely - not a lot of fun for those that have to, lets see the condo market collapse after this change I have a couple they suck as investments as Thailand is very over priced for what you get if you have to do the above it sucks twice as hard.
There is an old adage which goes 'No taxation without representation!' I would really hope that if we are expected to contribute 'even more' in future, then the State would pick up our medical costs the same way that it does for Thai people. In that case our lagely overpriced medical insurances would no longer be necessary.... and we could use this insurance premium money to instead fund our taxes!
obviously more clarification is much needed!
and if the new tax law does not explicitly state that foreigners or expat retirees are excluded, then the new tax could cover or applicable to them. some people think that double tax treaty provides a good shield. maybe there is a point
most people do not
understand fully. For example,
one may not need to pay tax
in a foreign country as tax
allowance is much higher
than that of thailand. Then
what happens is that he may need
to pay tax in thailand
because the thai tax
allowance threshold is so
low. Also some tax items not
taxed overseas could be
taxed by thailand. So double
tax treaty may not help
Non working retirees that are in Thailand for more than 180 days a year are tax residents of Thailand. They always have been.
But introducing new tax laws but not defining them is kind of not a very mature approach.
It seems to me that this old phrase applies... "If you want less of something tax it !" I'm just not clear if they want less monies coming into country or less expats?
The state pension in the UK is not taxable income in the UK, it should not therefore be considered taxable income in Thailand.
LMAO All Pensions ARE taxable in UK, it's income!!
@@timrowley4274uk state pension is not taxable
@@timrowley4274only private pensions are taxable
@@timrowley4274and company pensions are taxable
@@johnforrest4373what if you only have state pension
Since U.S Va disability compensation is considered a retirement pension in Thailand and non taxable Income in the U.S. will that be considered taxable income in Thailand?
Currently Thailand has a tax treaty with the US to not double tax income. Until that is clarified I would say there’s not tax on already taxed income. Unless the treaty is ended.
OMG. Just move to Cambodia. Solved, have a nice day.
Anybody have a good tax accountant recommendation in Chiang Mai? I am primarily retired but paying taxes in USA on rental income and may have some capital gains now and again on stock investment income that again I will be paying in USA. Am I going to be double taxed in Thailand? I have asked this question before but after watching nearly all of Integrity Thais videos I am still uncertain where I land in all this..
Subject to the pension provisions of Article 21 (Government Service), pensions and similar remuneration paid to a resident of a contracting State in consideration of past employment shall be taxable only in that State. The term “pensions and other similar remuneration” is understood to include both periodic and single sum payments.
Example : A Thai resident receives a pension from a U.S. pension fund in connection with his past employment with a U.S. company. The pension is taxable only in Thailand.
Notwithstanding the above, social security benefits and other similar public pensions paid by a Contracting State to a resident of the other Contracting State or a citizen of the United States shall be taxable only in the first-mentioned State.
Example : An individual resident in Thailand receives a social security pension from the U.S. Government. The pension is taxable only in the United States.
The reference to U.S. citizens is necessary to insure that a social security payment by the Thai government to a U.S. citizen who is not resident in the United States, will not be taxed by the United States.
Annuities, as defined in the Convention, derived and beneficially owned by a resident of a Contracting State shall be taxable only in that State.
Alimony, as defined in the Convention, paid to a resident of a Contracting State shall be taxable only in that State.
Periodic payments, not being alimony, for the support of a child made pursuant to a
Great info. I'll be receiving both a Union Pension as well as Social Security. Do you happen to know if it's possible to get either one of those as a Direct deposit into a Thai bank?
Might not be possible to tax foreigners without tangible benefits in place.
You use the infrastructure so you do have a tangible benefit.
As an American, does Thailand tax me on my pension or Social Security payments if I stay in Thailand over 6 months?
In australia thais treated the same as normal Australians not just onecside but thats thai culture there
Why would they ever be in the any tax system...they paid their taxes already...let them enjoy their retirement!
Tax rules are different in every country, what may be a deduction or examption in one country might not be in another. You are bound by the rules of the cou try you are a tax resident in, not the country you make the money in. Most countries have tax treaties, where taxes already paid can be a deduction, so you end up paying the greater of the two tax bills, or the difference if you have already paid tax somewhere else.
The only clear thing so far is that there are no clear guidelines and all is very murky. Even skilled professionals like yourself can at best come up with some educated guesses and plausible scenarios. In my humble opinion the only sensible thing to do, if possible, is to wait and see. I believe that this lack of clear guidelines on the application of the existing laws and applicable tax treaties will have some negative impact on the Thai economy if it is not promptly addressed because of all of the capital coming from abroad being withheld for the time being. I imagine that it is not an irrelevant sum of money that is not entering the Thai economy, this can have an unfavorable domino effect.
If I have to pay income taxes, do I get the right to vote?
And living in thailand receiving SS benefits you file your US tax returns and declare that SS receipt as income ? Really ?????
According to the latest Thai tax revenue administration, today the Thai tax authorities want to apply the Thai tax scale to financial transfers to Thailand for 2024. In this hypothesis, we should therefore prepare our declarations to the Thai tax authorities during the first quarter of 2025 (deadline: 03/31/2025). The Thai authorities ensure that they apply the double taxation convention to the extent that the tax would be credited to the Thai tax (in proportion to the sums transferred).
Benjamin, your commentary does not explain the definition of “Double Taxation”. As a US citizen, I am obligated to report all my revenues to the IRS, regardless of where the revenue originates. If one of my revenues does not originate from the US and is taxed by the county of origin, the amount of the tax is deducted from my US tax. This means the revenue is taxed only once.
Thailand will tax all revenues wild working and living in Thailand. The amount of taxes to be paid to Thailand will be deducted from the US tax.
Reading the latest understanding of the Thai tax revenue administration has a different understanding. The Thai tax administration separates your revenue declared to the IRS from the amount of money transferred to Thailand.
The IRS tax is retained and is to be paid to the IRS. The Thai revenue tax is calculated on the amount transferred to Thailand per the Thai tax regulations. The difference between the money transferred between the US tax and the Thai tax is to be paid to the Thai Tax revenue.
The US revenue is not double taxed, but is calculated with 2 different tax percentages, the US tax, and the Thai tax percentage.
Benjamin, do I make sense?
I am an Australian getting a disability pension Will I be taxed when I bring it to Thailand
Cool
Just bring 20k usd to bkk
You need to show .I.D when changing money so they may pick you up that way.
More talking in circles
Foreigners needs to pay their way in Thailand.
We live here and every penny we spend in rent,food,drink,travel,medical insurance,car/bike insurance,goods and services goes directly into the Thai economy with no official government benefits in return…. We definitely contribute our fair share at the moment and don’t need to be bled for more.
Some are saying if you are a us pensioner and under the tax treaty not subject to double tax here that as your tax residency is in thai, therefore you are not subject to irs taxes as well. I know of 4 people who have filed amended returns and received full refunds on all taxes witheld for tax in the us under section 20
Is this true and what is your take on this
Troll.
@@2000jago "Benefits of living in Thailand"? What the hell are you talking about? Foreigners do not receive benefits living in Thailand. We already paid too much.
It's already very difficult to live in Thailand being it's very primitive and dysfunctional.
Why do you think any expat is here in the first place? I have the benefit of tax free Social Security I worked for my whole life which is not taxable. I should now be taxed on it in a third world country? Ain't gonna happen and I'm sure most expats would agree. I'll just go back to the good old USA.