We NEED Palpatine in Andor. Imagine how frightening he would be with the Andor tone. Imagine the tension in a scene where he calls Mon Mothma or anyone else into his office for a “chat”. Also we have never seen a live action Emperor where he is still not fully revealing himself as evil.
At this point, Lucasfilm is starting to feel like WCW in 1999 and 2000, the backstage drama is more interesting that most of the content they are putting out. Lets hope they turn it around before its too late.
How is it that we're not getting a stand-alone Rey movie because they can't figure out the script, but we might be getting a whole trilogy? (which would require even more of a script...)
I think it all comes down to the approach. As a writer it is often easier to conceive of something of several movies worth of story if there are no constraints (i.e., no specific characters or situations that they have to remain consistent with to achieve their stories). Meanwhile, the more difficult process might be having to account for the existing characterization and history of Rey in the crafting of another story, as well as the desire of 'Writer X' to even make her the central focus of their story when they'll have to [be] so well received that the automatic haters would be won over (if even possible). Writer X may also be constrained by what things producers and studio execs want and don't want to have happen to Rey long term, as opposed to Writer Y having virtually Carte Blanche to maim, merc or mistreat brand new or lesser known characters while Rey simply guest appears. I get you may be being rhetorical, but there's too much that may come with the expectations around Rey that may limit creative options, or getting approved, as fast as a trilogy surrounding unknowns.
I'll try this again since it got deleted the first time: They screwed up and paid Daisy Ridley millions to come back for the Rey movie they had no script for, so now they're scrambling to figure out somewhere to put her so it's not more money down the drain.
I have given up on everything SW related, not including Andor. The current heads of SW needs to go and moved to a different regime. At this point in time I'm no longer a fan of what SW is putting out and don't want to consume a product that i no longer enjoy watching and that's just sad for me.
I wonder what star wars is going to do if Mando and Grogu doesn't work out. All of these script issues, movies being canceled and moved just makes me care less about the Mando and grogu movie. Plus season 1 was really the only strong season for me. Grogu is cute as hell, but I don't want a movie just for that. I hope the movie does well but I just have a feeling that it's not going to do as well as Lucasfilm hopes
I think Lucasfilm's problem is that the assets they have (besides Rey) could make legit Good movies. But...they want to make the next Star Wars Legendary movie (like the OT when it came out). And perhaps, they're finding that a hard fit to master. The Mona Lisa doesn't just...happen.
One hour feels too short to have with Rocha, Kelly and the Smashy. Especially since you guys are only doing this every other(?) week? I know you all are busy and it comes down to viewership, too, but I do wish these were more frequent ❤
Yay the Jedi Way. Love that Laura mentioned that it's Happy Life Day in Star Wars lore I had no idea. Also I love that Kevin still champions the Darth Plagueis novel. I'm currently rereading that at the moment. So good
I like Ray but that’s a step backwards and Lucas film needs a total reset and the broom to go through Lucas film for a total reset if the ever want to get the fans on the same page again and to be successful! For someone who has been there from the start it’s just so frustrating seeing what is happening at the min!
Wait a sec... my birthday falls on Life Day?! Why did I not notice this till now lol (i'm 35 so I probably should have put two and two together before now).
Laura, I don't think it's good quality control getting these scripts rejected when most of the ones they approve were written in crayon. The scripts getting rejected might've actually been decent lol.
The contradiction there is assuming the person coming in will a) be successful, or b) be successful within a short enough window of time to be considered part of his legacy. For probably 3+ years after people would consider the next few things coming out to be holdovers from KK's tenure. The problem is we can't know who's even out there that could guarantee good output as a Lucasfilm studio head.
It kinda bums me out that people seem so down on SW lately and I don't want to disregard or belittle anyone's feelings on it and I get it, too, b/c I'm not a big fan of the ST /at all/ even though I do like the individual characters like Rey, Finn, etc. But, I've also really enjoyed the SW tv series, yes even the BoBF and The Acolyte so I'm torn between understanding the people who are disappointed, but as someone who watched most of the tv shows after ~2 years b/c I was so behind (minus The Acolyte which I watched live), I think the hate is way out of proportion, too. The level of hate and the gnashing of teeth and the tearing of clothes was verging on the point of embarrassing coming from adults. Especially b/c people will start to latch onto anything minor and trivial thing as they engage in the downward spiral. The people who went after Ingram and Stenberg (or even going back to Lloyd, Best, etc) was gross. But, then you see them latch onto anything like in The Acolyte when so many were like, "Fire in space? So stupid, you never see that kind of poor storytelling in the OT (and some even said PT which... was hilarious if you remember the same kind of criticism from OT fans during the PT releases)!" You mean... like how we saw Tie fighters and other capital ships exploding and burning in space... since the OT? What about that fire plume that went up when the super star destroyer crashed into the Death Star in RoTJ? Or, you know, the sound in space thing when Tie fighters go screaming across our screens in space since the OT? I get the dislike for whatever it is in the SW universe you don't like. I went through the same thing with 'not my Luke' and 'Mary Sue Rey'. But, I don't spend days, weeks, months, years on social media just railing. If someone asks me, I'm more than willing to share my feelings on whatever, but I think we've gone more than a bit askew in the vitriol and anger and maybe that has to do with the past 5-10 years? But, then I suppose the PT hate also went back 20 years so maybe we've always been this way. I don't know, but I think we need to collectively "get a grip".
You make an interesting comment which I think highlights an important point I've noticed. Putting aside how you and I personally feel about any SW property that's come out since 2015, it tends to be the case in the last 2-3 years that those 'defending' everything that's been put out and complaining it's all the fault of trolls/haters are picking "straw men" to fight against i.e. they pick criticisms like "fire in space" which are rightly ludicrous. But they tend to stop there. Rocha (and Kristian Harloff who's channel John does a weekly segment on and who's commentary I love) are not advising those kind of criticisms. It's something more thoughtful, more objective if there can be such a thing. Yet the types of criticisms these people more in the middle have been talking about, the things that are really damaging the brand, those who push back against the haters tend never to comment on. It's like they ignore their existence. Likewise those who do feel stronger in their dislike to the point of being vitriolic tend also to focus their criticisms on the same kinds of things. So I think there's kind of two "camps" of people completely talking past one another. This was really noticeable in discussions around the Acolye because the major critiques I identified with...just weren't talked about by those loving the property or engaged with at all, and they were only a passing thought in favour of something more superficial by those who shouted the loudest against it. So I think your comment makes total sense in light of the vitriolic comments that get pointed to alot, but there's an awful lot of profound criticism about the ST and something like 50%- 70% of the total screen time of the live action TV shows which is indicative of the deep concern felt by many and the reasons for general audiences falling away from love of SW as a property. But the numbers of people sharing their THAT criticism is much more limited to Rochas, Harloffs etc. precisely because the majority of people who feel that way are the sort who are either more casual fans and don't delicate slots to discussing SW, don't do any social media about the topic at all, or those who do dedicated SW discussions have an incentive to vere to either extreme of criticism or defending at all costs.
I'm not torn up about the Dec 2026 movie being pushed back because if they aren't already in production or close to it, hitting that date probably means a less thought out or rushed production (considering the amount of effects that have to go into SW films). Going by M&G alone, which is possibly done principle photography (or close) and still won't be out until May 2026, who would have confidence a film (for which we still haven't haven't heard there's even a locked script for) can be written, vetted, cast, filmed, post-produced with FX, and edited with only 7 months separation? Also, coming from zero movies in the last 5 years, Lucasfilm doesnt need 2 movies in 2026 with nothing solid following up in '27 or '28, they need that one 2026 movie to be good and for there to be something good following in 2027 (or 2028) to establish they can keep films coming.
Yeah, I have a guess that the final scene in the Andor finale episode will be that Cassian had made a hologram funeral message similar to Clem's that's going to be played 🤔
I think one of the things that hasnt been commented on all that much by those talking about this news is the fact that over the past few years is just how, at its most basic level, how difficult its now going to be to make ANY trilogy, given the state of canon. Ultimately Id hope we can all agree that if you are doing a trilogy there needs to be some aspect of a 'war', it is, afterall Star Wars. Its among the reasons why I think R1 worked so well and has become very popular with fans and general audiences alike. A comments section maybe isnt the best place to explore this in full but a few relevant thoughts -A Rey movie/post ST trilogy: who is the big bad, whats the threat, whats the war? Whats the stakes? Its either going to be a SW film without a proper war or lower stakes "conflict" focussing on characters and the Jedi OR we have yet another situation, just like the ST did to the OT where the big "save the day" finale is totally undermined and the Galaxy has proverbially gone to sh*t again, underming many of the sacrifices that came before. -A Thrawn trilogy. Ticks the boxes for a war, can offer a big conflict without undermining OT or ST if done well BUT wed need to build off "the filoni verse" and thats in a mess now. Ashoka underhwlemed and wasnt well written, Manadlorian and Grogu is coming out as a stand alone film in lieu of S4, no idea when / if Filoni is doing the Thrawn movie, and if he is its only one movie. To say nothing of the thorny issue that would always arise setting something in their period, you need to either 'write out" Han Luke and Leia or recast. -A high republic era trilogy: could have huge potential, theres plenty of material in the High Republic books to adapt, theres an actual war taking place that gives three films worth of action BUT post the Acolyte I imagine everyone is running scared of this era since it did so much damage to the good will. -An old republic setting: would be very popular with many hard core fans but would there be enough familiar themes and references to grab the attention of general audiences and make it feel like SW to them? Would they understand just how far removed the timeline is from everythung weve seen before where not a single character, not even Yoda, is alive? To say nothing of the rumours that Filoni, in his capacity as creative head of the studio, doesnt like the old republic. A clonewars live action with Hayden and Ewan: would be very popular, galactic wide conflict easy to work in but would live and die with the de-aging tech, is there enough story for a trilogy given the existence of Clone Wars show and success of the show partly founded on Dee Bradley Baker as the clones, a performance an aging Temura just couldnt compete with. At various points in the last 5-10 years I think everyone of the basic "pitches" above had potential and could have been workable, but given the decisions they have made to date, the content they have chosen to create and put out into the world, the lore which IS already canon, I think its going to be very hard to get a working pitch which has universal appeal.
@@ludwigvanbeethoven8448 You made some solid points there, and I'd say the key responses to some of them are this: working in the Star Wars universe to make a trilogy doesn't necessarily have to feature a war (but I 100% get your point), and even if it does, they can scale it back from a Galactic war to a local planetary war that involves familiar characters. Basically, one could build a War story centered around the rise of the dark side using rulers of a planet in one random, remote Earth-like world trying to annex a planet in another star system, and inject a couple Jedi, smugglers, mercenaries, bounty hunters, droids and gangsters into it. As such they've covered "Star" [two different systems going to] "Wars" and have familiar SW tropes in the types of characters. Also, not that they should rebrand to "A Galaxy Far Far Away Stories" but once established as the same galaxy that hosted the defining Wars among its Star systems, it is fine to have no war or stellar expanse and just be in that galaxy to tell lower stakes stories (for a while at least). That approach aside, there can be a lot of meaty story to mine coming out of post-war conflicts as destabilized territories have power vacuums and enterprising parties looking to capitalize on that.
Funny enough as you mention the deaging around Hayden and Ewan, I'm of the idea that although the Obi Wan series was a bit of a miss as a season, there is potential in following McGregor having ongoing adventures while protecting the secret of Luke, and aging right on up to when he would be called into action for the Rebellion by Leia and revisiting the OT from his viewpoint (complete with new actors as Luke, Leia and Han) and Hayden as THAT Darth by then. Sure, we know where it all ends up, but the benefit would be what characters of interest are formed along the way that give us tangential stories away from the core Rebellion due to Obi Wan's adventures. We know where things are going over there in the backdrop of Empire vs Rebellion, but who is this Kreelap Zeng and Jun Valor that Old Man Ben once met who went on to do X, Y and Z?
@@bajansamurai I see where you are coming from on both those points. On the central point, the need for a war, I'd push back a little bit. You can absolutely have a film or films that have an Ep. 1 style conflict that's not on a galactic scale but still on a scale which allows for battles on land and in space. That can be smaller scale but still have stakes. I also entirely agree that in terms of Star Wars content in general, you don't even always need all of that. Some of the best star wars animated TV and live action hasn't been connected to an actual war (even when one is going on in the background). But that benefits from being episodes of TV. But for a trilogy, essentially a saga film even if not Ep.10, 11, 12 etc, I really do think you need some proper 'war like' back drop that features more than incidentally in the plot. I can't imagine, for example, Solo being the first in a trilogy. Perhaps that's unfair because it was never designed to be, but it's just the sort of film where I think that type of plot works well in a single film, but "scum and villainy" or even "the jedi" factions of the universe aren't going to give us a trilogy if they are the centre focus. I like the "X, a Star Wars story" brand, and I wish they'd done more Rougue One type films since R1 was a brilliant proof of concept, but I think they basically ran out of polished ideas for them that were workable. I think that's why I was trying to suggest that it's more of a challenge but not an insurmountable one. There are probably ways that well paid professional creatives can craft that work within the confines of current cannon and deliver the basic necessary elements of a Star Wars trilogy...but it's FAR from just straightforwardly being a case of "here's my pitch for an X trilogy..." and the making said pitch.
@@ludwigvanbeethoven8448 Respect to that view. We agree a 2 star system/2 planet conflict qualifies as a star war, but where I lean more towards is disagreeing a war is the main thing that would support a trilogy. I think they merely failed to give us quality or bad timing for projects not steeped in war buildup or aftermath, or relegated those to non-film treatments. Your Solo example actually would have made a good franchise of films had they been better timed and not bogged by the reshoot bug. We weren't clamoring for a Ford replacement so soon after just getting Harrison Ford in that role again (and the lame death didn't help), but if timing was better (or they had the foresight in the absence of Fisher to let it be old Lando reminiscing about his introduction to Luke to set up the story) they would have probably had a hit on their hands that would have been sequelized. The setup of Crimson Dawn did not have to lead to a war, but that's exactly the type of big scope that trilogies are built from. It could have and could even still be a "Gangsters Prequel Trilogy" that plays with moving from young Han Solo (part I) to young Lando Calrissian (part II) to a reformed Qi'ra (part III). Arguably it still would have the impending war as somewhat as a backdrop, but I maintain that's a 3 parter about defeating a criminal empire (with guile) more than it is a war story. With that I'd sum it as: there are several possibilities for sub-franchises set in the Star Wars galaxy that good imagination can make trilogies out of. Bad planning and being reticent to look outside of the Skywalker saga is the only thing that limited them. [On an aside] The reason I laid it out as Han to Lando to Qi'ra isn't to say it couldn't just be a Han trilogy, BTW. I framed it that way as a freeing exercise since we already know Han's fate, and though still alive, we pretty much know where Lando's life twists and turns until he's a Rebel, but smart storytelling in a prequel sets up unknown characters whose fates are uncertain so we can feel all the stakes when the story is driven by their risks. We know Lando and Han grow to be old, so we don't feel as much danger in their story, but Qi'ra as a protagonist would feel in true danger. Aside from them, the rise of another darkside force user or sect could be absolutely sufficient material for a trilogy; so could something developed around an infamous person fleeing from having the steepest bounty on their head. It only takes one good story and an idea to follow that up with another chapter to get a trilogy going.
@@bajansamurai I think your last sentence is where you and I have the most common ground and perhaps is a good way of ellucidating the position I've been trying to explain. I maintain that a Solo type 'trilogy' - planned and developed and written as a trilogy from the outset - wouldn't work. I wouldn't be bad, it would no doubt have three fairly enjoyable entries as part of it, but I don't think it would be the best grounds for a trilogy which becomes beloved in the way the OT and more recently the PT did because, by design, you are - at least in this era of SW - planning your trilogy from day 1. You should be mapping it out start to end. What I do think can work, and may become a trilogy, is spinning off further installments of a successful spin off film, exactly like you describe. So if you are the studios you look at e.g. Solo or a Solo type film and say "that was good, it had a beginning middle and end but we can tell more story here...let's sit down and think about what worked and what's next for a further installment". That's exactly what you described, one good story to get a trilogy going. But a trilogy from the outset - which is what we've been told Kinberg has been brought in to do - thats where I think you need to rely on the overall structure of a conflict/war (whatever the scale may be) as the backdrop for the new heros and villains. Give yourself that ability to have land and space battles on a fleet/platoon scales which the franchise is known for. Without that I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'm saying you've got a really strong challenge going up against a large section of the audience who want that 'pew pew' including young children and very casual fans, all of who's money you need for a successful trilogy. I think you could look at Reeves Batman for a good analogy. We've just seen how excellent a spin off about the criminal underworld can be in The Penguin without the core element of Batman even showing up. But that was TV. The format suited it perfectly. A Penguin movie would not have had the same impact, not a movie in the Batman franchise which is mostly about the Penguin. You have to have Batman for a Batman film and his work as Batman has to be the basis for the film and the trilogy of films being developed, and this rich offshoot of the criminal underworld you explore in TV to flesh out those stories. I guess the Avengers might be another analogy. For the MCU itself you can have all kinds of genres, but for an Avengers film itself it's an absolute necessity that you have the ground for the big group battle with lots of whooshes and pew pew monents where the heroes collectively face off against the villain/their army etc. It provides that pure "action". Likewise each of the OT and PT had at least one big action sequence in the context of the war in question to tick that box and to keep the less interested viewer entertained. That said I think there is one big exception to what I've just said which maybe aligns with your point. I've been assuming any trilogy wants to be big budget four quadrant films. But if you use the films that inspired Star Wars and Lucas, rather than SW itself, as your touch stone for what a further installment should look like, just like Favreau did in Mando S1 you can do something outside of the war. I could see, e.g. if the Manadalorian wasn't already a fully fleshed out story a "Man with No Name" trilogy telling his story in a similar but adapted arc of S1 and S2. Where it differs is that you then need to commit the source inspiration e.g. the man with no name didn't join up with Davey Crocket to fight at the Alamo or enlist in the US cavalry in the third installment. You really need to commit to the style and resist the urge to "tie it in" because it risks undermining your source inspiration style (which arguably is what Mando S3 did in the way they actually executed in, eventho I don't have a problem with some of the story beats in general). This is a long topic which I'm sure we could both say more at length on, but I think we hopefully both agree that it's not just a case of "take your pick, pitch an idea and make it" when it comes to new trilogies, there is a skill and an art to making the concept work within the confines of cannon, within the cinemagraphic language of SW, and within general audiences expectations as regards a trilogy specifically. Making a single offshoot film still had these challenges, but we tend to have a different expectation when we know it's a one off.
If its not a story by George Lucas then i do not care. The ST went against what he created and wanted and he didnt even attend the premiere of the 9th film. That alone is telling alot. The saga is 6 FILMS and thats it. There have been nice extensions to the story he created such as Rogue one and Andor. And in isolation i enjoy mando 1 and 2. But nothing else matters or will matter to me. I am done with this franchise as soon as Andor S2 comes. Ill buy the physical media release of that and im done. And yeah about the Dave Filoni crap, yeah I dont trust him either. Especially without GL working with him and keeping him in line. Dave filoni has been in creative control for the recent stuff like Ashoka and Mando 3 and even Acolyte. Those are garbage. Hes lost his way and is nothing without GL working with him. Though im more inclined to believe that he was never that great to begin with. Hes incredibly overrated.
Disney Star Wars seeing is believing & is like crying wolf with all the announcements still no continuity it's getting frustrating make up your mind already Mickey Mouse make a plan & stick to it!
All I want from a Rey trilogy is a coherent story from start to finish with the same writers, producers etc. I hate what they done to Luke but I like Rey, Finn and Po
IMO Mando is a bust. Why are the masses gonna care about a prequel with characters, from a tv show, that have no say in the evolution of the future, as seen from the last trilogy. Their WHOLE play is... look its Grogu.. hes cute.
I think this is something that really needs to be considered deeply by the creatives at Lucasfilm. We know there are great stories with characters like Ashoka, the Rebels crew, clone wars characters, or new characters from the live action TV show etc. But if you bring animated characters into live action or live action TV into live action film you've got this huge problem that audiences just won't know the backstory. Nor will they invest 20+ hours catching up just to watch a movie. So you've got this very hard - but maybe not impossible - task of introducing them to people who've never seen them before without relying on other TV shows, whilst also accepting that character has a whole lore and back story which fans have seen and which can't be messed with. Evidence it can be done is Saw Guerera. His appearance in R1 and Andor didn't require any reliance on Clone Wars, but was enriched for those who had seen that arc. I think this is as much an issue for the MCU as it is for SW. I think until the last year or so the creators assumed that casual audiences would do their homework to "catch up" if they wanted to know more so they didn't need to do the same character building from scratch or they could rehash/forget about previous character arcs for the sake of new audiences and fans wouldnt see it as a let down for the character in question, but that myth is well and truly busted on both counts (whether creatives have learned that lesson though is another question entirely!).
You're not wrong, Shane, but I think there are two things that could "make" people care. One is that it doesn't necessarily matter as much if the characters come from TV. The mistake often comes when people market their movie as if people need to have been following the TV series. Instead, people that have no idea about M&G should be marketed to as if these are brand new characters in a SW setting, which itself comes with brand recognition and the nostalgia of a Yoda-esque character. For those who are getting their fix of them on TV (i.e., Mando S1-3), it helps a) to not know a season 4 is coming, and b) to show that moving to the film medium comes with an evolution of the characters, and c) that they will matter to the future of SW (e.g., Grogu can live into post-Sequel T times, as well as some aspect of the threat spinning.out of their film). The second bit is that this doesn't have to depend on the cuteness of Grogu. They have the opportunity here to establish a militant and cool offshoot non-Jedi order born out of Mandalorians. There is potential (until contradicted) in imagining a surviving Grogu being the key player in an emerging Mandalorian sect converging with the new Jedi Order Rey is establishing. If they treat and market the Mandalorian & Grogu movie like there is a future they can have a thriving franchise come from it.
We NEED Palpatine in Andor. Imagine how frightening he would be with the Andor tone. Imagine the tension in a scene where he calls Mon Mothma or anyone else into his office for a “chat”. Also we have never seen a live action Emperor where he is still not fully revealing himself as evil.
At this point, Lucasfilm is starting to feel like WCW in 1999 and 2000, the backstage drama is more interesting that most of the content they are putting out. Lets hope they turn it around before its too late.
How is it that we're not getting a stand-alone Rey movie because they can't figure out the script, but we might be getting a whole trilogy? (which would require even more of a script...)
Because they f'd up and already paid her(Daisy Ridley) so they're scrambling to figure out somewhere to put her.
I think it all comes down to the approach. As a writer it is often easier to conceive of something of several movies worth of story if there are no constraints (i.e., no specific characters or situations that they have to remain consistent with to achieve their stories).
Meanwhile, the more difficult process might be having to account for the existing characterization and history of Rey in the crafting of another story, as well as the desire of 'Writer X' to even make her the central focus of their story when they'll have to [be] so well received that the automatic haters would be won over (if even possible). Writer X may also be constrained by what things producers and studio execs want and don't want to have happen to Rey long term, as opposed to Writer Y having virtually Carte Blanche to maim, merc or mistreat brand new or lesser known characters while Rey simply guest appears.
I get you may be being rhetorical, but there's too much that may come with the expectations around Rey that may limit creative options, or getting approved, as fast as a trilogy surrounding unknowns.
I'll try this again since it got deleted the first time: They screwed up and paid Daisy Ridley millions to come back for the Rey movie they had no script for, so now they're scrambling to figure out somewhere to put her so it's not more money down the drain.
Good to see Kevin back! And I will continue to say Laura has the absolute BEST laugh. It is so infectious 🎉
I have given up on everything SW related, not including Andor. The current heads of SW needs to go and moved to a different regime. At this point in time I'm no longer a fan of what SW is putting out and don't want to consume a product that i no longer enjoy watching and that's just sad for me.
I wonder what star wars is going to do if Mando and Grogu doesn't work out. All of these script issues, movies being canceled and moved just makes me care less about the Mando and grogu movie. Plus season 1 was really the only strong season for me. Grogu is cute as hell, but I don't want a movie just for that. I hope the movie does well but I just have a feeling that it's not going to do as well as Lucasfilm hopes
@@dustink2763 did you forget jon favreu’s writting and directing this one??!! You must not know who he is or what he’s done 🤔
Kevin, thank you for your info about Simon. Your analysis has given me hope about the future trilogy (possibly🤞🏽)!
I think Lucasfilm's problem is that the assets they have (besides Rey) could make legit Good movies. But...they want to make the next Star Wars Legendary movie (like the OT when it came out). And perhaps, they're finding that a hard fit to master. The Mona Lisa doesn't just...happen.
i suddenly got excited about the possibility of seeing the Ghost crew live action in the new movies 🤩
One hour feels too short to have with Rocha, Kelly and the Smashy. Especially since you guys are only doing this every other(?) week? I know you all are busy and it comes down to viewership, too, but I do wish these were more frequent ❤
Empire does physical copies in the UK might grab a copy friday!
Yay the Jedi Way. Love that Laura mentioned that it's Happy Life Day in Star Wars lore I had no idea. Also I love that Kevin still champions the Darth Plagueis novel. I'm currently rereading that at the moment. So good
HEY JEDI WAY!
Loving this episode.... even if Kevin left the show in protest 😂!(squeaky door)
comments turned off on your election night meltdown, must have been rough cowboy, I am going back to watch the last few minutes again,,,, lol
I like Ray but that’s a step backwards and Lucas film needs a total reset and the broom to go through Lucas film for a total reset if the ever want to get the fans on the same page again and to be successful! For someone who has been there from the start it’s just so frustrating seeing what is happening at the min!
Wait a sec... my birthday falls on Life Day?! Why did I not notice this till now lol (i'm 35 so I probably should have put two and two together before now).
This year I divorced the cowboys letting go of Star Wars don’t seem that hard anymore
Who's getting the plates and the dog?
@ I did, the cowboys have no dogs on the team 😒
@@Quadface214 Ohsnap, good one 😂
LOL I feel your pain
55:50 or so. In Gilroy we trust!!
Laura, I don't think it's good quality control getting these scripts rejected when most of the ones they approve were written in crayon. The scripts getting rejected might've actually been decent lol.
If Iger really wants to leave a legacy before he retires, fire Kathleen Kennedy and have someone head Lucusfilm who truly knows what they are doing.
The contradiction there is assuming the person coming in will a) be successful, or b) be successful within a short enough window of time to be considered part of his legacy. For probably 3+ years after people would consider the next few things coming out to be holdovers from KK's tenure. The problem is we can't know who's even out there that could guarantee good output as a Lucasfilm studio head.
rKevin, Rise of Skywalker ended 30 years after ashoka. how would the rebels crew be interacting with Rey unless Ezra is 50 years old.
Definitely recommend the Alaska cruise.
It kinda bums me out that people seem so down on SW lately and I don't want to disregard or belittle anyone's feelings on it and I get it, too, b/c I'm not a big fan of the ST /at all/ even though I do like the individual characters like Rey, Finn, etc. But, I've also really enjoyed the SW tv series, yes even the BoBF and The Acolyte so I'm torn between understanding the people who are disappointed, but as someone who watched most of the tv shows after ~2 years b/c I was so behind (minus The Acolyte which I watched live), I think the hate is way out of proportion, too.
The level of hate and the gnashing of teeth and the tearing of clothes was verging on the point of embarrassing coming from adults. Especially b/c people will start to latch onto anything minor and trivial thing as they engage in the downward spiral. The people who went after Ingram and Stenberg (or even going back to Lloyd, Best, etc) was gross. But, then you see them latch onto anything like in The Acolyte when so many were like, "Fire in space? So stupid, you never see that kind of poor storytelling in the OT (and some even said PT which... was hilarious if you remember the same kind of criticism from OT fans during the PT releases)!" You mean... like how we saw Tie fighters and other capital ships exploding and burning in space... since the OT? What about that fire plume that went up when the super star destroyer crashed into the Death Star in RoTJ? Or, you know, the sound in space thing when Tie fighters go screaming across our screens in space since the OT?
I get the dislike for whatever it is in the SW universe you don't like. I went through the same thing with 'not my Luke' and 'Mary Sue Rey'. But, I don't spend days, weeks, months, years on social media just railing. If someone asks me, I'm more than willing to share my feelings on whatever, but I think we've gone more than a bit askew in the vitriol and anger and maybe that has to do with the past 5-10 years? But, then I suppose the PT hate also went back 20 years so maybe we've always been this way. I don't know, but I think we need to collectively "get a grip".
You make an interesting comment which I think highlights an important point I've noticed.
Putting aside how you and I personally feel about any SW property that's come out since 2015, it tends to be the case in the last 2-3 years that those 'defending' everything that's been put out and complaining it's all the fault of trolls/haters are picking "straw men" to fight against i.e. they pick criticisms like "fire in space" which are rightly ludicrous. But they tend to stop there.
Rocha (and Kristian Harloff who's channel John does a weekly segment on and who's commentary I love) are not advising those kind of criticisms. It's something more thoughtful, more objective if there can be such a thing. Yet the types of criticisms these people more in the middle have been talking about, the things that are really damaging the brand, those who push back against the haters tend never to comment on. It's like they ignore their existence. Likewise those who do feel stronger in their dislike to the point of being vitriolic tend also to focus their criticisms on the same kinds of things.
So I think there's kind of two "camps" of people completely talking past one another. This was really noticeable in discussions around the Acolye because the major critiques I identified with...just weren't talked about by those loving the property or engaged with at all, and they were only a passing thought in favour of something more superficial by those who shouted the loudest against it.
So I think your comment makes total sense in light of the vitriolic comments that get pointed to alot, but there's an awful lot of profound criticism about the ST and something like 50%- 70% of the total screen time of the live action TV shows which is indicative of the deep concern felt by many and the reasons for general audiences falling away from love of SW as a property.
But the numbers of people sharing their THAT criticism is much more limited to Rochas, Harloffs etc. precisely because the majority of people who feel that way are the sort who are either more casual fans and don't delicate slots to discussing SW, don't do any social media about the topic at all, or those who do dedicated SW discussions have an incentive to vere to either extreme of criticism or defending at all costs.
I'm not torn up about the Dec 2026 movie being pushed back because if they aren't already in production or close to it, hitting that date probably means a less thought out or rushed production (considering the amount of effects that have to go into SW films). Going by M&G alone, which is possibly done principle photography (or close) and still won't be out until May 2026, who would have confidence a film (for which we still haven't haven't heard there's even a locked script for) can be written, vetted, cast, filmed, post-produced with FX, and edited with only 7 months separation?
Also, coming from zero movies in the last 5 years, Lucasfilm doesnt need 2 movies in 2026 with nothing solid following up in '27 or '28, they need that one 2026 movie to be good and for there to be something good following in 2027 (or 2028) to establish they can keep films coming.
Yeah, I have a guess that the final scene in the Andor finale episode will be that Cassian had made a hologram funeral message similar to Clem's that's going to be played 🤔
I think one of the things that hasnt been commented on all that much by those talking about this news is the fact that over the past few years is just how, at its most basic level, how difficult its now going to be to make ANY trilogy, given the state of canon.
Ultimately Id hope we can all agree that if you are doing a trilogy there needs to be some aspect of a 'war', it is, afterall Star Wars. Its among the reasons why I think R1 worked so well and has become very popular with fans and general audiences alike.
A comments section maybe isnt the best place to explore this in full but a few relevant thoughts
-A Rey movie/post ST trilogy: who is the big bad, whats the threat, whats the war? Whats the stakes? Its either going to be a SW film without a proper war or lower stakes "conflict" focussing on characters and the Jedi OR we have yet another situation, just like the ST did to the OT where the big "save the day" finale is totally undermined and the Galaxy has proverbially gone to sh*t again, underming many of the sacrifices that came before.
-A Thrawn trilogy. Ticks the boxes for a war, can offer a big conflict without undermining OT or ST if done well BUT wed need to build off "the filoni verse" and thats in a mess now. Ashoka underhwlemed and wasnt well written, Manadlorian and Grogu is coming out as a stand alone film in lieu of S4, no idea when / if Filoni is doing the Thrawn movie, and if he is its only one movie. To say nothing of the thorny issue that would always arise setting something in their period, you need to either 'write out" Han Luke and Leia or recast.
-A high republic era trilogy: could have huge potential, theres plenty of material in the High Republic books to adapt, theres an actual war taking place that gives three films worth of action BUT post the Acolyte I imagine everyone is running scared of this era since it did so much damage to the good will.
-An old republic setting: would be very popular with many hard core fans but would there be enough familiar themes and references to grab the attention of general audiences and make it feel like SW to them? Would they understand just how far removed the timeline is from everythung weve seen before where not a single character, not even Yoda, is alive? To say nothing of the rumours that Filoni, in his capacity as creative head of the studio, doesnt like the old republic.
A clonewars live action with Hayden and Ewan: would be very popular, galactic wide conflict easy to work in but would live and die with the de-aging tech, is there enough story for a trilogy given the existence of Clone Wars show and success of the show partly founded on Dee Bradley Baker as the clones, a performance an aging Temura just couldnt compete with.
At various points in the last 5-10 years I think everyone of the basic "pitches" above had potential and could have been workable, but given the decisions they have made to date, the content they have chosen to create and put out into the world, the lore which IS already canon, I think its going to be very hard to get a working pitch which has universal appeal.
@@ludwigvanbeethoven8448 You made some solid points there, and I'd say the key responses to some of them are this: working in the Star Wars universe to make a trilogy doesn't necessarily have to feature a war (but I 100% get your point), and even if it does, they can scale it back from a Galactic war to a local planetary war that involves familiar characters.
Basically, one could build a War story centered around the rise of the dark side using rulers of a planet in one random, remote Earth-like world trying to annex a planet in another star system, and inject a couple Jedi, smugglers, mercenaries, bounty hunters, droids and gangsters into it. As such they've covered "Star" [two different systems going to] "Wars" and have familiar SW tropes in the types of characters.
Also, not that they should rebrand to "A Galaxy Far Far Away Stories" but once established as the same galaxy that hosted the defining Wars among its Star systems, it is fine to have no war or stellar expanse and just be in that galaxy to tell lower stakes stories (for a while at least).
That approach aside, there can be a lot of meaty story to mine coming out of post-war conflicts as destabilized territories have power vacuums and enterprising parties looking to capitalize on that.
Funny enough as you mention the deaging around Hayden and Ewan, I'm of the idea that although the Obi Wan series was a bit of a miss as a season, there is potential in following McGregor having ongoing adventures while protecting the secret of Luke, and aging right on up to when he would be called into action for the Rebellion by Leia and revisiting the OT from his viewpoint (complete with new actors as Luke, Leia and Han) and Hayden as THAT Darth by then. Sure, we know where it all ends up, but the benefit would be what characters of interest are formed along the way that give us tangential stories away from the core Rebellion due to Obi Wan's adventures. We know where things are going over there in the backdrop of Empire vs Rebellion, but who is this Kreelap Zeng and Jun Valor that Old Man Ben once met who went on to do X, Y and Z?
@@bajansamurai I see where you are coming from on both those points.
On the central point, the need for a war, I'd push back a little bit. You can absolutely have a film or films that have an Ep. 1 style conflict that's not on a galactic scale but still on a scale which allows for battles on land and in space. That can be smaller scale but still have stakes.
I also entirely agree that in terms of Star Wars content in general, you don't even always need all of that. Some of the best star wars animated TV and live action hasn't been connected to an actual war (even when one is going on in the background). But that benefits from being episodes of TV.
But for a trilogy, essentially a saga film even if not Ep.10, 11, 12 etc, I really do think you need some proper 'war like' back drop that features more than incidentally in the plot.
I can't imagine, for example, Solo being the first in a trilogy. Perhaps that's unfair because it was never designed to be, but it's just the sort of film where I think that type of plot works well in a single film, but "scum and villainy" or even "the jedi" factions of the universe aren't going to give us a trilogy if they are the centre focus.
I like the "X, a Star Wars story" brand, and I wish they'd done more Rougue One type films since R1 was a brilliant proof of concept, but I think they basically ran out of polished ideas for them that were workable.
I think that's why I was trying to suggest that it's more of a challenge but not an insurmountable one. There are probably ways that well paid professional creatives can craft that work within the confines of current cannon and deliver the basic necessary elements of a Star Wars trilogy...but it's FAR from just straightforwardly being a case of "here's my pitch for an X trilogy..." and the making said pitch.
@@ludwigvanbeethoven8448 Respect to that view. We agree a 2 star system/2 planet conflict qualifies as a star war, but where I lean more towards is disagreeing a war is the main thing that would support a trilogy.
I think they merely failed to give us quality or bad timing for projects not steeped in war buildup or aftermath, or relegated those to non-film treatments. Your Solo example actually would have made a good franchise of films had they been better timed and not bogged by the reshoot bug. We weren't clamoring for a Ford replacement so soon after just getting Harrison Ford in that role again (and the lame death didn't help), but if timing was better (or they had the foresight in the absence of Fisher to let it be old Lando reminiscing about his introduction to Luke to set up the story) they would have probably had a hit on their hands that would have been sequelized.
The setup of Crimson Dawn did not have to lead to a war, but that's exactly the type of big scope that trilogies are built from. It could have and could even still be a "Gangsters Prequel Trilogy" that plays with moving from young Han Solo (part I) to young Lando Calrissian (part II) to a reformed Qi'ra (part III). Arguably it still would have the impending war as somewhat as a backdrop, but I maintain that's a 3 parter about defeating a criminal empire (with guile) more than it is a war story.
With that I'd sum it as: there are several possibilities for sub-franchises set in the Star Wars galaxy that good imagination can make trilogies out of. Bad planning and being reticent to look outside of the Skywalker saga is the only thing that limited them.
[On an aside]
The reason I laid it out as Han to Lando to Qi'ra isn't to say it couldn't just be a Han trilogy, BTW. I framed it that way as a freeing exercise since we already know Han's fate, and though still alive, we pretty much know where Lando's life twists and turns until he's a Rebel, but smart storytelling in a prequel sets up unknown characters whose fates are uncertain so we can feel all the stakes when the story is driven by their risks. We know Lando and Han grow to be old, so we don't feel as much danger in their story, but Qi'ra as a protagonist would feel in true danger.
Aside from them, the rise of another darkside force user or sect could be absolutely sufficient material for a trilogy; so could something developed around an infamous person fleeing from having the steepest bounty on their head. It only takes one good story and an idea to follow that up with another chapter to get a trilogy going.
@@bajansamurai I think your last sentence is where you and I have the most common ground and perhaps is a good way of ellucidating the position I've been trying to explain.
I maintain that a Solo type 'trilogy' - planned and developed and written as a trilogy from the outset - wouldn't work. I wouldn't be bad, it would no doubt have three fairly enjoyable entries as part of it, but I don't think it would be the best grounds for a trilogy which becomes beloved in the way the OT and more recently the PT did because, by design, you are - at least in this era of SW - planning your trilogy from day 1. You should be mapping it out start to end.
What I do think can work, and may become a trilogy, is spinning off further installments of a successful spin off film, exactly like you describe. So if you are the studios you look at e.g. Solo or a Solo type film and say "that was good, it had a beginning middle and end but we can tell more story here...let's sit down and think about what worked and what's next for a further installment". That's exactly what you described, one good story to get a trilogy going.
But a trilogy from the outset - which is what we've been told Kinberg has been brought in to do - thats where I think you need to rely on the overall structure of a conflict/war (whatever the scale may be) as the backdrop for the new heros and villains. Give yourself that ability to have land and space battles on a fleet/platoon scales which the franchise is known for. Without that I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'm saying you've got a really strong challenge going up against a large section of the audience who want that 'pew pew' including young children and very casual fans, all of who's money you need for a successful trilogy.
I think you could look at Reeves Batman for a good analogy. We've just seen how excellent a spin off about the criminal underworld can be in The Penguin without the core element of Batman even showing up. But that was TV. The format suited it perfectly. A Penguin movie would not have had the same impact, not a movie in the Batman franchise which is mostly about the Penguin. You have to have Batman for a Batman film and his work as Batman has to be the basis for the film and the trilogy of films being developed, and this rich offshoot of the criminal underworld you explore in TV to flesh out those stories.
I guess the Avengers might be another analogy. For the MCU itself you can have all kinds of genres, but for an Avengers film itself it's an absolute necessity that you have the ground for the big group battle with lots of whooshes and pew pew monents where the heroes collectively face off against the villain/their army etc. It provides that pure "action". Likewise each of the OT and PT had at least one big action sequence in the context of the war in question to tick that box and to keep the less interested viewer entertained.
That said I think there is one big exception to what I've just said which maybe aligns with your point. I've been assuming any trilogy wants to be big budget four quadrant films. But if you use the films that inspired Star Wars and Lucas, rather than SW itself, as your touch stone for what a further installment should look like, just like Favreau did in Mando S1 you can do something outside of the war. I could see, e.g. if the Manadalorian wasn't already a fully fleshed out story a "Man with No Name" trilogy telling his story in a similar but adapted arc of S1 and S2. Where it differs is that you then need to commit the source inspiration e.g. the man with no name didn't join up with Davey Crocket to fight at the Alamo or enlist in the US cavalry in the third installment. You really need to commit to the style and resist the urge to "tie it in" because it risks undermining your source inspiration style (which arguably is what Mando S3 did in the way they actually executed in, eventho I don't have a problem with some of the story beats in general).
This is a long topic which I'm sure we could both say more at length on, but I think we hopefully both agree that it's not just a case of "take your pick, pitch an idea and make it" when it comes to new trilogies, there is a skill and an art to making the concept work within the confines of cannon, within the cinemagraphic language of SW, and within general audiences expectations as regards a trilogy specifically. Making a single offshoot film still had these challenges, but we tend to have a different expectation when we know it's a one off.
If its not a story by George Lucas then i do not care. The ST went against what he created and wanted and he didnt even attend the premiere of the 9th film. That alone is telling alot. The saga is 6 FILMS and thats it. There have been nice extensions to the story he created such as Rogue one and Andor. And in isolation i enjoy mando 1 and 2. But nothing else matters or will matter to me. I am done with this franchise as soon as Andor S2 comes. Ill buy the physical media release of that and im done.
And yeah about the Dave Filoni crap, yeah I dont trust him either. Especially without GL working with him and keeping him in line. Dave filoni has been in creative control for the recent stuff like Ashoka and Mando 3 and even Acolyte. Those are garbage. Hes lost his way and is nothing without GL working with him. Though im more inclined to believe that he was never that great to begin with. Hes incredibly overrated.
All respect lost for Laura; "I wasn't the biggest fan of ['Andor']season 1"... clown emoji.
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Wait, what? Isn’t that the Mandalorian Grogu movie?
That's what I thought
@@cacique_samu That’s in May of 2026. Not December 2026.
Disney Star Wars seeing is believing & is like crying wolf with all the announcements still no continuity it's getting frustrating make up your mind already Mickey Mouse make a plan & stick to it!
All I want from a Rey trilogy is a coherent story from start to finish with the same writers, producers etc.
I hate what they done to Luke but I like Rey, Finn and Po
IMO Mando is a bust. Why are the masses gonna care about a prequel with characters, from a tv show, that have no say in the evolution of the future, as seen from the last trilogy. Their WHOLE play is... look its Grogu.. hes cute.
I think this is something that really needs to be considered deeply by the creatives at Lucasfilm.
We know there are great stories with characters like Ashoka, the Rebels crew, clone wars characters, or new characters from the live action TV show etc.
But if you bring animated characters into live action or live action TV into live action film you've got this huge problem that audiences just won't know the backstory. Nor will they invest 20+ hours catching up just to watch a movie.
So you've got this very hard - but maybe not impossible - task of introducing them to people who've never seen them before without relying on other TV shows, whilst also accepting that character has a whole lore and back story which fans have seen and which can't be messed with. Evidence it can be done is Saw Guerera. His appearance in R1 and Andor didn't require any reliance on Clone Wars, but was enriched for those who had seen that arc.
I think this is as much an issue for the MCU as it is for SW. I think until the last year or so the creators assumed that casual audiences would do their homework to "catch up" if they wanted to know more so they didn't need to do the same character building from scratch or they could rehash/forget about previous character arcs for the sake of new audiences and fans wouldnt see it as a let down for the character in question, but that myth is well and truly busted on both counts (whether creatives have learned that lesson though is another question entirely!).
You're not wrong, Shane, but I think there are two things that could "make" people care. One is that it doesn't necessarily matter as much if the characters come from TV. The mistake often comes when people market their movie as if people need to have been following the TV series. Instead, people that have no idea about M&G should be marketed to as if these are brand new characters in a SW setting, which itself comes with brand recognition and the nostalgia of a Yoda-esque character. For those who are getting their fix of them on TV (i.e., Mando S1-3), it helps a) to not know a season 4 is coming, and b) to show that moving to the film medium comes with an evolution of the characters, and c) that they will matter to the future of SW (e.g., Grogu can live into post-Sequel T times, as well as some aspect of the threat spinning.out of their film).
The second bit is that this doesn't have to depend on the cuteness of Grogu. They have the opportunity here to establish a militant and cool offshoot non-Jedi order born out of Mandalorians. There is potential (until contradicted) in imagining a surviving Grogu being the key player in an emerging Mandalorian sect converging with the new Jedi Order Rey is establishing.
If they treat and market the Mandalorian & Grogu movie like there is a future they can have a thriving franchise come from it.