Finally, a video that gives Frodo the credit he deserves. He gave everything of himself to save The Shire. Interesting that just as in the book the people of the Shire overlook his great heroism and sacrifice, so do so many LOTR fans. It seems fashionable to honour Sam’s heroism but not Frodo’s; as if only one character can be heroic.
As if beating a huge spider in combat, stabbing a wraith in the knee, and saving a man from a murder-suicide are the ONLY ways someone can be heroic. Those are all action-oriented heroics, and thus everybody notices them and praises Sam, Merry, and Pippin for them. But Frodo’s heroics were almost entirely internal - mentally fighting the Ring for as long as he could. If he’d given in any sooner than he did, all would’ve been lost. He was canonically the only person in Middle-earth who could’ve carried it that far. Not even Tom Bombadil, immune to the Ring and yet lacking all concern for the outside world’s problems, could’ve done it.
Frodo sacrificed his well-being, both physical and mental, for the rest of his life to destroy that ring. Taking the boat was the only way he could have found peace.
@@12classics39Tom COULD have but wouldn't bother, although why that is remains a mystery thanks to his unknown nature. My guess is that his purpose was only to assist and knew it was Frodo's journey to take.
@@gr81disp He might have been able. Though you have to keep in mind, that Toms sphere of influence was limited, he couldnt really wander off very far. On the other hand, i think it was written, that he imposed those limits on himself, so who knows if he could have decided to change that and remove his limits.
The movies took away lots of Frodo's more noble and heroic moments, and then made him send away Sam for no good reason. That makes him look foolish and weak in the eyes of movie-only fans.
Tolkien absolutely nails what many people experience with PTSD: your physical scars become associated with feelings of shame and self-reproach. Worst of all is the feeling of having failed to protect yourself or others. Each wound, beyond being physically painful, is a reminder: he was stabbed with the Morgul-blade because he put on the Ring; he was stung by Shelob because he trusted Gollum's guidance even after being warned by Faramir; and he lost his finger after claiming the Ring. I always hoped/believed that Frodo would come to recognize in the undying lands that he didn't fail simply because he carried a burden that no one could endure.
I always got the impression that the Ring simply broke his spirit and going to the undying lands was the only place he could be truly rid of the Ring’s influence.
The undying lands would ease his pain. I think he carried that pain forever, until he moved on from his corporeal body that was so badly abused. IE passed away.
There was definitely a ring-shaped scar in his soul. I agree with Robert that he mourned the thing's passing, for that's what the ring's insidious influence did to him.
Poor dude had been in mortal combat with horrible monsters beyond the worst nightmares of anybody in the Shire. Even if the Ring had never existed, and he had merely been on an important mission of some other kind that took him into Mordor, he would never have been able to come back to the Shire and live among other hobbits normally with what he'd seen and done. Remember these are jolly and simple people. They couldn't handle the horror of his memories and he wouldn't want to burden them with it anyway. The Shire he knew would be gone forever.
His monologue in the movie about never being able to go back, and never being the same again always make me bawl. I feel it all the same, I’m sure most veterans do, in their own way. And how Pipen and Mary get so much recognition, other veterans get more strictly due to which branch they served in.
@@robertb6889I suppose my own in much like Frodo, broken and worn down, getting so close to be called upon to do something, ready to do it, only to not. Like Frodo getting the ring all the way there, only to not destroy it. We were there ready to launch missiles, only to not, yet later there are still issues in the area, and we should have done it while I was there, waiting to do so, so the burden wouldn’t be passed to others.
The Valar were really the only beings in the world who could’ve healed wounds as severe as those inflicted on Frodo. Estë, the lady of the gardens of Lórien in Valinor, has the power to heal all hurts and weariness, and Nienna specializes in guiding souls through grief and sorrow. They were Frodo’s only hope of healing, both externally and internally.
@@arnorrian1 I agree that he probably lived on Eressea - Valinor isn't bearable for mortals - but I don't see why some of the Valar couldn't have visited him there, especially since he needed their help so badly, and since he had Gandalf, a Maia, to advocate for him.
This makes me cry....because that's how it felt when I came back from the war. Its been 20 years and I can still feel those wounds. And im not talking about ones on the outside.
That’s the duality of trauma, isn’t it? Sure, we gain “strength” for enduring through it, but a part of us died that can never come back I hope there are more moments of happiness than despair in your daily life
Just like with Frodo in this story, those wounds hurt more when endured alone. I hope you stay in touch with fellow veterans, who _truly_ understand the struggle. It may be your burden to bear this evil, but you can be borne by others, too :)
I believe Tolkien had his own war experiences to deal with, but would have also noticed other veterans who were not coping well after the war ended. Many were far more severely wounded, physically and mentally, and Tolkien would have seen how British society reacted, quite often hiding those veterans away and forgetting about them, like the Shire folk did with Frodo. "In the Season of the Dressing of the Wells" is a short story in an anthology called _"After the King: Stories in Honour of JRR Tolkien"_ that features a soldier who has returned to Britain after the war, and some of the awkwardness he experiences in returning to society.
If you are a fan of anime you should check out Violet Evergarden. It is a story of a woman (Violet the title character) who was a soldier in a war that looks very much like WWI and how she has to adapt to civilian life after the war. She too suffered injuries both mental and physical and lost someone important to her. The English language dub is quite good too)
I totally agree I think talking about Frodo having recurring episodes on those dates those wounds that do not heal was Tolkien perhaps talking abt feelings he or his comrades had sometimes
Inthink he also realized that anyone doing this kind of work would never succeed doing it alone, a person would need support, like the kind that Sam offered ❤
War is devastating on so many levels. While I understand the need for it, nobody really talks about the aftermath…the people involved. I’d like to believe Tolkien’s writing of TLOR was in some way a kind of therapy for him. I hope he was able to find peace.
Frodo survived things that would have killed many men, the morgul blade, the spider bite, the ring itself on his body... It was truly a show of Hobbit resistance that he survived all
The spider sting wasn't fatal, the orc even explains it and that's why Sam follows the orcs back to their hole. The ring extends your life as long as you have the ring, that's how Smeagle survived so long. Yes, the morghul blade would've killed anyone but Galadriel could have also saved anyone else the same way. Frodo had to leave so everyone the ring had truly tainted was off of the continent and under the eyes of the eternal elves for when Dagor Dagorath finally comes.
@haewymetal technically they don't, just the effects of time take longer to be seen, something on the lines 1 year in middle earth equals 9 years in val
@haewymetal it's not heaven. it doesn't make anyone immortal. It's called the undying lands because the land itself is unchanging. As for the elves they are tied to it as it's where they were born. The only reason there are elves in middle earth is because several tribes left the undying lands to settle in middle earth.
In that moment when Frodo is unburdened by the ring, he seems to draw the very nihilistic sense of life that consumed Denathor and his many years of contact with Sauron via the Palantiri. It makes me wonder if this grating of the soul is a lingering effect of those with a prolonged encounter with Sauron.
Those who fall the prolonged temptation(s) of power, recognition, value (etc etc) but are good in heart, feel the burden of the grief of letting themselves go, the slipping into the descent down to the Darkness and the acceptance of The Bad/Evil by leaving aside the hopes for a better future (even a very closer one in time). At least, that's what I feel sometimes, more or less (assuming that I'm good-hearted, an evaluation I don't think I'm wise enough to properly give to myself) Frodo might have "known" the True Evil when he fell to the Ring, in the last moments at the Mount Doom. The Ring, which is part of Sauron, is a metaphor for the Evil that might (or "do"???) lurk in the hearts of humans. Frodo might have been strongly tempted and mind-controlled by The Ring, but that fall might be the "concrete metaphor" of the revelation of his very sliver of Evil in his heart, his alignment to wanting something Dark, like "craving" and lust for power and control. Something, I guess, that is very hard to accept. At least, it's hard for me to accept what wrongs I've done, thought, craved and planned in my life. Something I hardly forgive myself about; at first because I rationally recognize the unethical aspects of my sins and mistakes; and secondly because I sympathetically (and maybe empathetically) think about how bad everyone involved in those negative moments had felt and been through. I haven't read any of Tolkien's writing, so I can't "fully" relate to Frodo; but I believe that I could grasp a bit of understanding. In short, I've never thought I could ever relate to Frodo. Indeed, I'm not too old, I have some time left, some Good can still be done to "repair" somehow; "restoring the balance" by "feeding the Positive balance's plate" is not a true psychological healing, I know, but it would be ... enough. Frodo is a "veteran of war" in Tolkien's metaphor, so hardly any terrestrial heal is available; but I still have hope.
I had never realised the post traumatic stress Frodo was suffering until now that you mentioned all of this. Comparing it to PTS of soldier makes so much sense. My grandfather in law left Europe after WW2. He moved from England to Australia, cause he“ had seen enough of Europe“, to quote him. My gosh, this seems to similar and it’s been right in front of me all these years.
Except he wasn't the only Hobit that experienced the horrors of war, Pipen, Mary saw more fighting and death than Frodo ever did. It was the possession of the ring that did him in
I teach Wilfred Owen's poetry in my English class, and the theme of feeling betrayed by the promise of glory and adventure in the war weighed heavily in Owen's poetry, just as it also resonates through Tolkien's writing.
My head canon is that Gandalf/Olorin may have contacted Nienna, the Vala of sorrow and mercy, whom he had served among others, and asked her to give Frodo healing in the Undying Lands. The simplest aspect of this is that since no Hobbits had as yet ever gone to Aman, nor were there Men there, Frodo could completely divorce himself from the traumas he had suffered in Middle-earth.
I think it is more likely that Eru had a clause (of sorts) written into his plan that if Frodo succeeded he would be allowed to come to the undying lands. The Valar are simply doing Eru’s bidding by allowing him in
@@NB4fun IIRC any ringbearer could go to the undying lands since Samwise also went to the undying lands since he bore the ring for a short time. Samwise simply went much later when he was older and his wife had passed on.
Elrond's wife was captured and tortured by orcs for a good long time. She was eventually rescued by her sons Elros and Elrohir, and healed (physically) by Elrond, but the wounds in her spirit couldn't be healed. So, she eventually set sail for Valinor because it is the only place "where all wounds can be healed" I think that was intended to be a foreshadowing of Frodo. He set sail to Valinor because it was the only place where his spirit _could_ be healed
I really love the part in Moria when Tolkien gives us a lens into Frodo’s inner battle with the ring… even that early in the story it was working on him. I don’t remember the exact wording but it was something in the tune of Frodo from that moment on in his journey felt an immense sense of dread, but went on doggedly nonetheless. Frodo’s will was constantly under assault from the ring but he kept moving forward nonetheless, which displays more willpower than pretty much anyone else could muster
Frodo's heroism was enormous but it wasn't the type to attract as much notice from others, particularly as he continued suffering from his experiences as Ring bearer. I believe he would have preferred to remain in the Shire but only in the Undying Lands could he be healed of these grievous wounds and have a life without constant pain.
Very deeply moving. Your voice and intonation..... I confess to weeping as you spoke. Thank you. This is just what Tolkien did - and still does - to me when I read The Return of the King. Catharsis.
Over the years, I've seen some criticism of the casting of Elijah Wood as Frodo, saying he's too young. But here's the thing - Frodo got the Ring when he was 33, the Hobbit equivalent of turning 18 or 20. It absolutely makes sense that he would still look that young 17 years later (though the movies are much more nebulous on how much time passes between when Frodo gets the Ring and when he leaves the Shire)
I think Elijah was cast perfectly in that role. When I first read the books, I pictured Frodo as young and somewhat innocent as a contrast to the corruption that had stealthily overtaken Bilbo in his long years with the One Ring. In the films, I don't think Frodo's transformation into the hobbit we see at end would have been as dramatic if Frodo had been cast as having more maturity. Also, Frodo's friends, particularly Pippen, were just a little younger and were still a bit childish. It doesn't make sense for a much older hobbit to be hanging out with boys that go around playing pranks and smoking pipeweed when they should be working.
Something that bothered me for a long time was how Borimer was devalued. I related to his story very much especially in my 30s how he was on the front lines for so long. In addition, he had to deal with the pressures of his unreasonable father. He seemed to be seen as redeeming himself at the end of fellowship. Yet i empathized with how long he kept up his side of things on an unending battlefield. I saw him as a solid man who had too much and had an episode of true vulnerability with the ring. The man deserved care and healing, not more responsibility. Especially when it was obvious he wasnt up to the task. "the wisest" of men in that circle wouldn't acknowledge that vulnerability. And yet, as the poet Rilke wrote " ultimately it is our vulnerability which we most depend."
Well done. Profoundly well done from the perspective of self sacrifice and saving something for others but not being able to receive it yourself. Thank you.
Another great video. I think it's worth adding that frodo knew he wasn't going to make it back by the end. " In his heart, he begins to understand..." This is one of the things that makes the lord of the rings so powerful, it's not just good vs. Evil like most stories. It's the sacrifice the heroes must make to defeat evil. While as an audience, we all loved that frodo survived, but to frodo, whether he had died or survived, it was going to be the same for him. As you said, it's bitter sweet either way. When you realize the sacrifice frodo made, u realize he really was the main hero. Yes, he gave in at the last minute, but that would be said of anyone, even the wisest and most moral ppl would have. Isildur I given a bad wrap but it was the same for him, elrond as wise as he was, did not seem to understand quite what he was asking in the movies when he told isildur to cast it into the fire. No person can destroy it without destroying themselves in the process. It was a blessing golum ended up taking the fatal blow in the end. Of course, other heroes in the lotr made sacrifices, too. Gandalf died to protect him and was brought back, Sam left the shire and gave up being a world conquering gardener 😆, and every one of them were prepared to lay down there lives so frodo had his chance to reach the fires of mount doom. But all of them save for frodo and Gandalf, were fighting for a world that was still theirs. Frodo and gandalf had either given up their share so others may keep it, or in Gandalf's case , they were there to fulfill a purpose. And while Gandalf may have died, middle earth was never meant for him. It was frodo who had made the greatest sacrifice in the end. He was giving up his home, and he thought, his very life, so others could keep theirs.
I’ve always wondered this. I’ve read the books a few times and watched the movies several times. And I knew it had something to do with the wounds. But I’ve never had it explained before like this with no ambiguity. Thank you. After all these years I finally fully know.
I mean, I do believe that was the metaphor. The boys return home, to find that Merry and Pippin have turned some of their experience to civilian life while still bearing the mental signs of their anguish and grief; Sam has settled back into family life but is never quite able to shake off the horrors of war, ultimately having to leave on the White Ship because, for all he could put most of it out of sight, it was never out of mind; meanwhile, poor Frodo was simply too broken by the experience to survive. He could never have recovered from the ordeal, for all his strength, because the things he was required to do were too great. His experiences broke his ability to continue, and nothing - not time, not rest, not friends - would bring him to a place of being able to bear it. He left because he had to, leaving his friends in grief and sorrow but glad he's found peace, as an extremely clear alternative to simply killing himself. As a staunch Catholic, Tolkien would never have actually referred to his protagonist killing himself... but that's really what leaving on the White Ship _is,_ right? It's just a different form. This isn't a very SUBTLE metaphor for "what happens when we come home from the war?", but it's not meant to be. It's MEANT to be obvious.
As a kid I didn't understand Frodo's plight. As an adult, cut by a morgul blade myself, I understand. Sometimes wounds don't heal. They are a constant reminder but, you do live and you do grow.
PTSD is absolutely a huge piece of it. Maybe the biggest piece. But there’s also the physical maimings he suffered, and even more importantly there is a dark magical component as well.
Also, that morgul blade probably feel like a severe toothache and that shelob sting like being stung repeatedly by a tarantula-hawk wasp, along with some of his ribs shattered by that troll with a spear.
I've always felt that part of the reason was the exposure to the Ring left them with, for lack of a better term, "Sauron poisoning", a lingering magical malady that could only be healed in a land of magic, and magic was gone from Middle Earth. Only the undying lands could heal them of the lingering effects of a fallen Maiar.
I wonder if this was something Tolkien struggled with himself with throughout his life as a WWI vet. A Christian man whose hope for healing was on his own ‘distant shores’. I know Tolkien wasn’t a fan of allegory, but honestly this is more of a reality of human mortality and a world where evil exists. Any story worth telling is going to feel analogous to life, that’s why it impacts us so profoundly.
TLDW.: He's too scarred. Both mentally and physically. PTSD and old wounds. Only exacerbated by magic. Also the story needed a bittersweet end. Those are the best ends to end such a big story to, the highest optimism we can realistically expect in life.
I always heard Frodo's comment at the council of Elrond of "I will take the Ring..." to effectively amount to "I will give my life to the saving of the Shire and all things good in the world" and so it was. I totally understand his reasons, his need.
Like all things that come from the power of the Ring, Frodo became a part of it as the bearer. At the ultimate point, he cannot give it up. It has taken him and he it. Then by chance it is destroyed. And with it a part of Frodo. Surely the wound from the Morgul blade was deep in body and spirit. But it seems that the loss of the Ring might have been a heavier blow.
Also there is the physical toll of the long burden just to get to Mount Doom (dragging a heavy burden - both mentally AND physically by the bearer). Also the poison of Shelob and the maiming by Gollum. And his capture by a Barrow-Wight. Frodo was pretty battered up by the end.
as a chronically ill person, the concept of healing and rest from wounds that could never heal otherwise and that no one else will ever truly understand unless theyve gone through the same things you have, being more desired and positive than some form of death or eternal life is so deeply relateable. yes, the PTSD Tolkien was relating to when writing this is deeply known to me. "i just want to feel okay (again)" is probably a sentiment JRRT felt very very often, and that feeling applies to so so many chronic issues, whether physical or mental that its hard not to recognize it in Frodo if you deal with these issues. Sam may have been a resilient caretaker, and that deserves its own awards, but to come through a situation that leaves you with chronic pain and permanently alters your view of the world?? of course the desire to rest and recover is what calls to you the most.
19 years of debilitating chronic pain and exhaustion. I can't remember what feeling perfectly well even felt like, much as Frodo couldn't remember what green grass looked like in Mordor.
I think the worst injury is from the ring - that he spent years possessing it, and ultimately, painfully, giving in to its pull. Then, almost immediately, having physically cut off of him, body and spirit. Aside from his hand, he was likely horrifically spiritually wounded. By the time he reached Mordor, the ring was taking up almost the entire field of his mind and awareness.
Agree with much of what you said, but I don't think possessing The Ring for long time did Frodo any harm. He rarely, if ever, used it. And he had no idea of its potency or innate power, so he was not constantly drawn to it.
IMHO- the fourth age really doesn't start until Sam goes west... as the last person left in middle earth who held the Ring, he and Frodo were the last vestiges of Sauron's touch in middle earth. When they exit, not only can they begin healing, but do can Middle Earth... that touch of Sauron's influence in them is that last shard of shrapnel in an old wound that is finally extracted.
"Sam couldn't go until until he was no longer torn in two, so stayed in Middle-earth until his wife Rosie died and his children grown up. Then he took a ship to spend his last years once more with Frodo." Thank you, Robert, for yet another wonderful In Deep Geek video! Your contribution to geeky Tolkien scholarship is greatly appreciated! However, I think we can be pretty certain that there would never be any reunion for Sam and Frodo. Not in this life, at any rate. While such a reunion would be the ending I'm sure we all would wish for Sam and Frodo, it will not happen. All Sam will find In Eressëa (or in Aman) is the memory of Frodo, his tale preserved in story and song but remembered from personal experience only by Gandalf-Olorin and by the handful of Elves who met him in Middle-earth, such as Gildor Ingiorion, Glorfindel, Elrond, Galadriel and members of their respective retinues and households. Frodo himself will have been long dead. Tolkien makes it clear in his letters [154, 246, 325] that there is no prolonged life for mortals across the Sea, just the potential to find peace. Bear in mind, too, that Frodo was 12 years older than Sam, and he'd been grievously and permanently "wounded with knife, sting and tooth, and a long burden." Tolkien also writes that a mortal's natural life would, in fact, be shortened by virtue of being in the home of the immortals; as it says in the History of Middle-earth book "Morgoth's Ring", a mortal in the Blessed Realm "would wither even as a moth in a flame too bright". Frodo has accepted the Gift of Ilúvatar. If any reunion with Sam is possible beyond the confines of this world, that is known to Ilúvatar alone. More cannot be said on the matter.
Tolkien had a difficult life, his personal experience are in the books, not an allegory, just life events that one cannot truly appreciate until you have experienced them. You can read about having a child but cannot truly understand what it’s like to be a parent until it has happened, you cannot understand loss until you have experienced it.
I've never quite forgiven Tolkien for giving Frodo a wound that recurs every year on my birthday. At least it makes it easy to remember when the skirmish at Weathertop happened.
Wow!! This video absolutely hit me between the eyes. Home from Iraq since 2004, I have yet to see the world the same as before. I guess I never will. People (and I myself) call me jaded. Perhaps so.
I think this ending for Frodo feels so relevant for a writer who served in WW1. The idea of returning in victory but being unable to enjoy that victory because of personal experiences in a fight. This would have been the PTSD experience of many veterans of that war and no doubt Tolkien was aware of this.
I legit never, NEVER thought of the fact that it would weigh on Frodo that he didn’t actually destroy the ring. That he gave into it, and that it was Gollum who really destroyed it. That was a big “oooooooh” moment for me watching this video. I discovered this channel last week and have been obsessed with watching/listening to your videos to gain more perspective into different facets of the Lord of the Rings. I’m not gonna lie though, while it does have it’s flaws, this current season of Rings of Power, especially the Annette/Sauron/Cerebrimbor storyline did make me want to learn more about the forging of the rings! I know that they changed a lot of the story in the show, but it still hit hard! Keep up the great work!
Pretty much. Tolkien had firsthand experience with what war can do to people. Some soldiers come home and enjoy the fruits of what they fought for. Others never find that peace.
I think Frodo's illness in March is due to the destruction of the Ring, which was the 25th of March (although Gondor will always celebrate it at the 1st of the New Year), and although Farmer Cotton found Frodo ill on the 13th of March (and Frodo would have been stung by Shelob a couple weeks prior to the destruction of the Ring) he was heard saying "It is gone forever, and now all is dark and empty" which strongly suggests to me his ailment was the loss of the Ring. His wound from the Morgul blade in October is also interesting: According to Gandalf, after Frodo had been healed in Rivendell and was recovering, "he was smiling and there seemed to be little wrong with him. But to the wizard's eye there was a faint change, just a hint as it were, of transparency about him and especially about the left hand that lay outside the coverlet. 'Still, that must be expected, said Gandalf to himself 'He is not half through yet, and to what he will come in the end not even Elrond can foretell. Not to evil, I think. He may become like glass filled with a clear light for eyes to see that can" This is interesting because later, in Ithilien, when Frodo was sleeping and Sam was stewing his brace of coneys, he said this about Frodo: "He was reminded suddenly of Frodo as he had lain, asleep in the house of Elrond, after his deadly wound. Then as he kept watch Sam had noticed that at times a light seemed to be shining faintly within; but now the light was even clearer and stronger." It would seem to me that Sam was one who Gandalf said had 'eyes to see that can', and I wonder if he would be considered among the Wise. I would love to imagine Samwise Gamgee on the White Council in the Fourth Age
There is no white council in the 4th age. The magic is gone. No elves, no wizards, and the orcs and goblins will be dying out shortly. The dwarves were already dying out.
It would be nice to have a video detailing everything around Utumno. It's such an important location and you almost never hear about it, so anyone wanting to know has no option but the slow read of the Silmarillion. Having someone more familiar with that stuff who still gives direct book descriptions would be a big improvement. It's made more confusing when it has two names, with Udun being a shared name between the area of Mordor around the Black Gate and the name of the deep fortress Melkor dug out in the north. Being the place orcs came from also makes it more interesting.
A comparison of this concept from a more modern series is Katniss Everdeen from the Hunger Games. Just like Frodo, Katniss is left broken at the end of the series. Even though she managed to bring down the evil President Snow and the Capitol and bring an end to the Hunger Games, Katniss is left broken from the horror and loss she experienced. A perfect demonstration of this is from the final paragraph in the final novel: _"My children, who don’t know they play on a graveyard. Peeta says it will be okay. We have each other. And the book. We can make them understand in a way that will make them braver. But one day I’ll have to explain about my nightmares. Why they came. Why they won’t ever really go away. I’ll tell them how I survive it. I’ll tell them that on bad mornings, it feels impossible to take pleasure in anything because I’m afraid it could be taken away. That’s when I make a list in my head of every act of goodness I’ve seen someone do. It’s like a game. Repetitive. Even a little tedious after more than twenty years. But there are much worse games to play.”_ Just like Frodo, she couldn't enjoy the peace she fought so hard to bring about and was left forever scarred and broken, even after the physical wounds healed.
I love Frodo, healing is hard when it is something really hurtful, I've seen and felt, not something as horrid as war, but deep hurts, and they don't just go away. I cried this whole video, Frodo really gave everything, no one could ask for a better friend
As a veteran combat medic: Tolkien hit the nail on the head, not just with his portrayal of how PTSD can affect someone many many years later, but also with his portrayal of veteran relationships. The bonds we form with our battle buddies never really go away, I still call my old Sgt whenever I have a panic attack that is too much for me to handle on my own and he's NEVER missed a phone call from me. My partner has been with me for nearly 10 years now, and has never once begrudged this in any way that I've been able to see. Our bonds with fellow veterans often seem close enough to be seen as romantic even when they aren't (see: Sam & Frodo and how many people think they're romantically in love with each other). We know how to show love and affection to our friends because most of us, eventually, know the pain of never being able to show those things to someone we care about ever again. And yes, folks could still be gay in these situations (I certainly am) but that does not make Frodo and Sam's bond a romantic one, same for Gimli and Legolas (though I think there's a far better chance there, we simply don't know).
Frodo died. This is a drawn out metaphor. This is a death scene. The Great War expression for dying and being put to rest was "going West.." Because, of course, for everyone from the UK and the Empire as well as France, this meant going home to be buried or remembered at least -- and this was westward. Tolkein says repeatedly that Frodo and the Elves were going "into the West." No way that this is not a reference to dying. Tolkein was steeped in mythology, much of his story is metaphorical. Orcs "die" and are burned. Lesser figures are buried. But heroes get greater status: they "go into the West." Gandalf ascends, his status can change from Grey to White. Naturally, the heroes can do something more dignified than merely die. They go West. Just as dead, true. But sounds more fitting for persons of that status.
It seems to me that like Gollum, Frodo was still addicted to the ring, still wanted and needed so badly that the rest of the world faded away and that he felt guilt for the ring’s destruction, and guilt about his guilt
I have to think that the elves' superior foodstuffs and skill in healing would have a beneficial effect on Frodo's health, along with the effect of being in a land protected and blessed by the Valar. Although he (and Bilbo) might have lived their last years comparatively free of disease and illness, death would eventually take them, but I have to think that this would have occurred much later than in Middle-Earth.
I like to believe that Frodo, Bilbo, and even Sam were allowed to rest in Valinor for as long as they wanted. They weren't immortal, really, and of course at that point in their lives, they wouldn't want to be immortal. But nor were they forced to die before they were ready.
Frodo was in a kind of pain no one could've been able to comprehend. His very soul was basically broken and reformed during his journey with the ring. It wasn't just about his Shoulder or Shelob, or Gollum taking his finger. Tolkien said "Frodo is a Hobbit broken down into something quite different " Spiritually he was Grown bigger than a ordinary Hobbit by enduring that suffering and resisting the evil of the ring on his Mind and Body even seeing it's true form as a "Wheel of Fire". It was horrifying Evil that he was strong enough to bear until the end. But couldn't rest with afterwards. I'd love a video on What exactly Frodo was "Broken down into".
I grew up in neighborhood of WW2 veterans. My Father was one. He told me “When you see too much you can never unsee it.” He was severely wounded and always walked with a limp. That’s what I believe Tolkien was describing.
Thank you most kindly. You have given me a new (and humbling to me) perspective of and appreciation for Frodo. Am ashamed I never appreciated how much he’d given up at the end. 😢❤
The metaphysical harms and injuries of the experiences of the Ringbearers, especially Frodo, cannot be underplayed I think. The deleterious metaphysical impact of Melkor's interference with the Song of the Ainur, and by extension Sauron's metaphysical impact via The One Ring, metaphysically wound to a terrible degree; I think Tolkien knew that many struggle to see invisible wounds, so require a physical injury for validation...
Aside from his physical wounds, he dealt with the pull of the ring which in my opinion was like an addiction. Even at the last moment knowing what pain and torment it brings you, there is a desire to hold on to it. An addict might be grateful that they are done, free from the darkness, but they will never be whole. Not in the way they were before. There will always be times of doubt, a fear, or perhaps a longing. It is too a wound that can never fully heal.
A beautiful essay, thank you. Considering Tolkein's own experience, perhaps Frodo, his wounds not withstanding, simply wanted to be reunited with Bilbo.
Your writing is sublime, Robert. I love listening to your videos. Thank you for making things like The Lord of the Rings so much easier for me to understand. xxx
I never really understood Frodo when I was much younger. I loved the more obviously heroic characters. But, as I've gotten older and been through many a tragedy, I've come to understand and love Frodo. Part of that understanding came from watching the movies (oddly enough). Seeing Frodo get beaten down and always getting back up...only to get beaten down again, was heartbreaking. And finally, the previous 10 years of my own life (so far) almost broke me. To this day, I have a really difficult time living where I do. Too many reminders. Too many echoes of despair. I've often wished I had the wherewithal to move far away from all the reminders. That was when I truly got Frodo's sacrifice. No, he does not get the credit he deserves. But, he still did it. And at least he got some rest before dying. I understand. Frodo has become my favourite character of all.
Frodo reached out for help once in the town of Whiterun. The Whiterun Guard saw that Frodo had a long face, so the guard asked "Let me guess, someone stole your sweet roll?" 😥😥😥
I totally get the comparison between Tolkien’s mental war wounds and how he put them in words through Frodo’s sad adventure. Because of the rings influence on the voyage from the Shire to Rivendell, I think that Frodo really knew what he was getting into when he volunteered to take the ring to Mordor. You could see it in his facial expression.
A very poignant and powerful video. I thought I was very well versed in LOTR but you have opened a window to so much more. Truly gifted insight to the genius of Tolkien.
Hearing this perspective is heartbreaking and I think adds even more bearing to the sacrifices Frodo made for this quest. It gives me even more respect for the writing of these stories.
Also very telling about the pain on anniversaries as this is something I am sure that Tolkien would have felt about his fallen friends and other tragic dates he'd lived through.
I like how the movie shows wounds on Frodo's neck where the increasing weight of the ring has been digging into his skin.
now i have to rewatch the movies because it seems i missed something important
@@t.kersten7695 You got to rewatch 558/683 minutes of a trilogy to catch one scene? Understandable, enjoy.
@@t.kersten7695It's not important
@@sarcastaball it is still incredible attention to detail
@@CompassRoseGaming Incredible? No.
Finally, a video that gives Frodo the credit he deserves. He gave everything of himself to save The Shire. Interesting that just as in the book the people of the Shire overlook his great heroism and sacrifice, so do so many LOTR fans. It seems fashionable to honour Sam’s heroism but not Frodo’s; as if only one character can be heroic.
As if beating a huge spider in combat, stabbing a wraith in the knee, and saving a man from a murder-suicide are the ONLY ways someone can be heroic. Those are all action-oriented heroics, and thus everybody notices them and praises Sam, Merry, and Pippin for them. But Frodo’s heroics were almost entirely internal - mentally fighting the Ring for as long as he could. If he’d given in any sooner than he did, all would’ve been lost. He was canonically the only person in Middle-earth who could’ve carried it that far. Not even Tom Bombadil, immune to the Ring and yet lacking all concern for the outside world’s problems, could’ve done it.
Frodo sacrificed his well-being, both physical and mental, for the rest of his life to destroy that ring. Taking the boat was the only way he could have found peace.
@@12classics39Tom COULD have but wouldn't bother, although why that is remains a mystery thanks to his unknown nature. My guess is that his purpose was only to assist and knew it was Frodo's journey to take.
@@gr81disp He might have been able. Though you have to keep in mind, that Toms sphere of influence was limited, he couldnt really wander off very far. On the other hand, i think it was written, that he imposed those limits on himself, so who knows if he could have decided to change that and remove his limits.
The movies took away lots of Frodo's more noble and heroic moments, and then made him send away Sam for no good reason.
That makes him look foolish and weak in the eyes of movie-only fans.
Tolkien absolutely nails what many people experience with PTSD: your physical scars become associated with feelings of shame and self-reproach. Worst of all is the feeling of having failed to protect yourself or others. Each wound, beyond being physically painful, is a reminder: he was stabbed with the Morgul-blade because he put on the Ring; he was stung by Shelob because he trusted Gollum's guidance even after being warned by Faramir; and he lost his finger after claiming the Ring. I always hoped/believed that Frodo would come to recognize in the undying lands that he didn't fail simply because he carried a burden that no one could endure.
Tolkien was in WWI, and I think that's very clear in LOTR
Beautifully put, friend.
And stabbed by a cave troll lol
@@user-bl7em8sx6o Only in the movie, in the book it is a large orc that stabs him.
I always got the impression that the Ring simply broke his spirit and going to the undying lands was the only place he could be truly rid of the Ring’s influence.
The undying lands would ease his pain. I think he carried that pain forever, until he moved on from his corporeal body that was so badly abused. IE passed away.
There was definitely a ring-shaped scar in his soul. I agree with Robert that he mourned the thing's passing, for that's what the ring's insidious influence did to him.
Poor dude had been in mortal combat with horrible monsters beyond the worst nightmares of anybody in the Shire. Even if the Ring had never existed, and he had merely been on an important mission of some other kind that took him into Mordor, he would never have been able to come back to the Shire and live among other hobbits normally with what he'd seen and done.
Remember these are jolly and simple people. They couldn't handle the horror of his memories and he wouldn't want to burden them with it anyway. The Shire he knew would be gone forever.
Agree
The Ring took too much of a hold on him; when he destroyed it, a part of Frodo died too.
His monologue in the movie about never being able to go back, and never being the same again always make me bawl. I feel it all the same, I’m sure most veterans do, in their own way. And how Pipen and Mary get so much recognition, other veterans get more strictly due to which branch they served in.
Yeah, I definitely see mirrors of shell shock and PTSD. Many veterans of the world wars never went back to normal.
And for reference, Tolkien served at the battle of the Somme.
@@robertb6889I suppose my own in much like Frodo, broken and worn down, getting so close to be called upon to do something, ready to do it, only to not. Like Frodo getting the ring all the way there, only to not destroy it. We were there ready to launch missiles, only to not, yet later there are still issues in the area, and we should have done it while I was there, waiting to do so, so the burden wouldn’t be passed to others.
Marines.
@@cp37373 Navy
It's about as real as it gets. Sometimes, for the Hero there are no happy endings. Just acceptance of what is. Sad, but very real.
The Valar were really the only beings in the world who could’ve healed wounds as severe as those inflicted on Frodo. Estë, the lady of the gardens of Lórien in Valinor, has the power to heal all hurts and weariness, and Nienna specializes in guiding souls through grief and sorrow. They were Frodo’s only hope of healing, both externally and internally.
Wonder if I could get their numbers.
Frodo likely staid on Tol Eressea, probablly never saw the Valar.
@@arnorrian1 I agree that he probably lived on Eressea - Valinor isn't bearable for mortals - but I don't see why some of the Valar couldn't have visited him there, especially since he needed their help so badly, and since he had Gandalf, a Maia, to advocate for him.
@@12classics39 could you explain why it's not bearable? Is the land imbued with too much magic or something like that?
@@kadinnui2282It's a place of spirit, not flesh.
This makes me cry....because that's how it felt when I came back from the war. Its been 20 years and I can still feel those wounds. And im not talking about ones on the outside.
That’s the duality of trauma, isn’t it? Sure, we gain “strength” for enduring through it, but a part of us died that can never come back
I hope there are more moments of happiness than despair in your daily life
Thank you for your service. Yours is a sacrifice few will appreciate.
Iraq veteran here and I get you. Stay frosty
Thank you for your service. I'm sure you'll never forget what happened, but we'll never forget you.
Lest we forget.
Just like with Frodo in this story, those wounds hurt more when endured alone.
I hope you stay in touch with fellow veterans, who _truly_ understand the struggle.
It may be your burden to bear this evil, but you can be borne by others, too :)
I believe Tolkien had his own war experiences to deal with, but would have also noticed other veterans who were not coping well after the war ended. Many were far more severely wounded, physically and mentally, and Tolkien would have seen how British society reacted, quite often hiding those veterans away and forgetting about them, like the Shire folk did with Frodo.
"In the Season of the Dressing of the Wells" is a short story in an anthology called _"After the King: Stories in Honour of JRR Tolkien"_ that features a soldier who has returned to Britain after the war, and some of the awkwardness he experiences in returning to society.
If you are a fan of anime you should check out Violet Evergarden. It is a story of a woman (Violet the title character) who was a soldier in a war that looks very much like WWI and how she has to adapt to civilian life after the war. She too suffered injuries both mental and physical and lost someone important to her. The English language dub is quite good too)
I totally agree I think talking about Frodo having recurring episodes on those dates those wounds that do not heal was Tolkien perhaps talking abt feelings he or his comrades had sometimes
Inthink he also realized that anyone doing this kind of work would never succeed doing it alone, a person would need support, like the kind that Sam offered ❤
Fantastic comment and I cannot agree more.
War is devastating on so many levels. While I understand the need for it, nobody really talks about the aftermath…the people involved. I’d like to believe Tolkien’s writing of TLOR was in some way a kind of therapy for him. I hope he was able to find peace.
Frodo survived things that would have killed many men, the morgul blade, the spider bite, the ring itself on his body... It was truly a show of Hobbit resistance that he survived all
What people dont know is when mortals go to the elven heaven they die rather quickly.
The spider sting wasn't fatal, the orc even explains it and that's why Sam follows the orcs back to their hole. The ring extends your life as long as you have the ring, that's how Smeagle survived so long. Yes, the morghul blade would've killed anyone but Galadriel could have also saved anyone else the same way. Frodo had to leave so everyone the ring had truly tainted was off of the continent and under the eyes of the eternal elves for when Dagor Dagorath finally comes.
@haewymetal technically they don't, just the effects of time take longer to be seen, something on the lines 1 year in middle earth equals 9 years in val
the spider sting doesn't kill. it just paralyzes you.
@haewymetal it's not heaven. it doesn't make anyone immortal. It's called the undying lands because the land itself is unchanging. As for the elves they are tied to it as it's where they were born. The only reason there are elves in middle earth is because several tribes left the undying lands to settle in middle earth.
So he wouldn't have to watch the rings of power?
And who could blame him.
Ah you beat me to it 😂
Rings of Power is Frodo's Morgul blade fever-dream re-imagining of the Second Age.
😂
That would mean he's a giant a hole for not letting Sam come with him. "No sam, you stay and suffer for not doing enough to save my finger!"
In that moment when Frodo is unburdened by the ring, he seems to draw the very nihilistic sense of life that consumed Denathor and his many years of contact with Sauron via the Palantiri. It makes me wonder if this grating of the soul is a lingering effect of those with a prolonged encounter with Sauron.
Those who fall the prolonged temptation(s) of power, recognition, value (etc etc) but are good in heart, feel the burden of the grief of letting themselves go, the slipping into the descent down to the Darkness and the acceptance of The Bad/Evil by leaving aside the hopes for a better future (even a very closer one in time).
At least, that's what I feel sometimes, more or less (assuming that I'm good-hearted, an evaluation I don't think I'm wise enough to properly give to myself)
Frodo might have "known" the True Evil when he fell to the Ring, in the last moments at the Mount Doom. The Ring, which is part of Sauron, is a metaphor for the Evil that might (or "do"???) lurk in the hearts of humans. Frodo might have been strongly tempted and mind-controlled by The Ring, but that fall might be the "concrete metaphor" of the revelation of his very sliver of Evil in his heart, his alignment to wanting something Dark, like "craving" and lust for power and control. Something, I guess, that is very hard to accept.
At least, it's hard for me to accept what wrongs I've done, thought, craved and planned in my life.
Something I hardly forgive myself about; at first because I rationally recognize the unethical aspects of my sins and mistakes; and secondly because I sympathetically (and maybe empathetically) think about how bad everyone involved in those negative moments had felt and been through.
I haven't read any of Tolkien's writing, so I can't "fully" relate to Frodo; but I believe that I could grasp a bit of understanding. In short, I've never thought I could ever relate to Frodo.
Indeed, I'm not too old, I have some time left, some Good can still be done to "repair" somehow; "restoring the balance" by "feeding the Positive balance's plate" is not a true psychological healing, I know, but it would be ... enough.
Frodo is a "veteran of war" in Tolkien's metaphor, so hardly any terrestrial heal is available; but I still have hope.
Kind like the lingering effects of The Nazgul Eowyn and Merry killed, his breath put her into a coma that only Aragorn could save her from.
I had never realised the post traumatic stress Frodo was suffering until now that you mentioned all of this. Comparing it to PTS of soldier makes so much sense. My grandfather in law left Europe after WW2. He moved from England to Australia, cause he“ had seen enough of Europe“, to quote him. My gosh, this seems to similar and it’s been right in front of me all these years.
Except he wasn't the only Hobit that experienced the horrors of war, Pipen, Mary saw more fighting and death than Frodo ever did. It was the possession of the ring that did him in
@@haroldcruz8550 Merry and Pippin didn't suffer near-mortal wounds and mutilation.
Also, Merry & Pippin were vetoed from the boatride because, as Gandalf put it "Those hobbitches stole my fireworks".
Gandalf hates backstabbers, even if it was stabbing the Witchking in the back.
Thank you this is funny and made me smile.
Nothing better than being startled into laughter. I needed that - thanks. :)
I teach Wilfred Owen's poetry in my English class, and the theme of feeling betrayed by the promise of glory and adventure in the war weighed heavily in Owen's poetry, just as it also resonates through Tolkien's writing.
My head canon is that Gandalf/Olorin may have contacted Nienna, the Vala of sorrow and mercy, whom he had served among others, and asked her to give Frodo healing in the Undying Lands. The simplest aspect of this is that since no Hobbits had as yet ever gone to Aman, nor were there Men there, Frodo could completely divorce himself from the traumas he had suffered in Middle-earth.
I think it is more likely that Eru had a clause (of sorts) written into his plan that if Frodo succeeded he would be allowed to come to the undying lands. The Valar are simply doing Eru’s bidding by allowing him in
@@NB4fun - Eru's not the most attentive deity.
@@daniels7907 he's busy ok
@@NB4fun IIRC any ringbearer could go to the undying lands since Samwise also went to the undying lands since he bore the ring for a short time. Samwise simply went much later when he was older and his wife had passed on.
Elrond's wife was captured and tortured by orcs for a good long time. She was eventually rescued by her sons Elros and Elrohir, and healed (physically) by Elrond, but the wounds in her spirit couldn't be healed.
So, she eventually set sail for Valinor because it is the only place "where all wounds can be healed"
I think that was intended to be a foreshadowing of Frodo. He set sail to Valinor because it was the only place where his spirit _could_ be healed
You handled this subject very well, with the sensitivity and gentleness it deserved
I really love the part in Moria when Tolkien gives us a lens into Frodo’s inner battle with the ring… even that early in the story it was working on him. I don’t remember the exact wording but it was something in the tune of Frodo from that moment on in his journey felt an immense sense of dread, but went on doggedly nonetheless. Frodo’s will was constantly under assault from the ring but he kept moving forward nonetheless, which displays more willpower than pretty much anyone else could muster
This touches a lot of real world topics in terms of PTSD, thank you for talking about this. ❤
Frodo's heroism was enormous but it wasn't the type to attract as much notice from others, particularly as he continued suffering from his experiences as Ring bearer. I believe he would have preferred to remain in the Shire but only in the Undying Lands could he be healed of these grievous wounds and have a life without constant pain.
Frodo was also lifelong friends with the Elves and Gandalf. He would be quite comfortable on Tol Eressea.
Very deeply moving. Your voice and intonation..... I confess to weeping as you spoke. Thank you. This is just what Tolkien did - and still does - to me when I read The Return of the King. Catharsis.
Over the years, I've seen some criticism of the casting of Elijah Wood as Frodo, saying he's too young. But here's the thing - Frodo got the Ring when he was 33, the Hobbit equivalent of turning 18 or 20. It absolutely makes sense that he would still look that young 17 years later (though the movies are much more nebulous on how much time passes between when Frodo gets the Ring and when he leaves the Shire)
I think Elijah was cast perfectly in that role. When I first read the books, I pictured Frodo as young and somewhat innocent as a contrast to the corruption that had stealthily overtaken Bilbo in his long years with the One Ring. In the films, I don't think Frodo's transformation into the hobbit we see at end would have been as dramatic if Frodo had been cast as having more maturity. Also, Frodo's friends, particularly Pippen, were just a little younger and were still a bit childish. It doesn't make sense for a much older hobbit to be hanging out with boys that go around playing pranks and smoking pipeweed when they should be working.
Something that bothered me for a long time was how Borimer was devalued.
I related to his story very much especially in my 30s how he was on the front lines for so long. In addition, he had to deal with the pressures of his unreasonable father.
He seemed to be seen as redeeming himself at the end of fellowship.
Yet i empathized with how long he kept up his side of things on an unending battlefield.
I saw him as a solid man who had too much and had an episode of true vulnerability with the ring.
The man deserved care and healing, not more responsibility.
Especially when it was obvious he wasnt up to the task.
"the wisest" of men in that circle wouldn't acknowledge that vulnerability. And yet, as the poet Rilke wrote " ultimately it is our vulnerability which we most depend."
Well done. Profoundly well done from the perspective of self sacrifice and saving something for others but not being able to receive it yourself. Thank you.
Another great video. I think it's worth adding that frodo knew he wasn't going to make it back by the end. " In his heart, he begins to understand..." This is one of the things that makes the lord of the rings so powerful, it's not just good vs. Evil like most stories. It's the sacrifice the heroes must make to defeat evil. While as an audience, we all loved that frodo survived, but to frodo, whether he had died or survived, it was going to be the same for him. As you said, it's bitter sweet either way. When you realize the sacrifice frodo made, u realize he really was the main hero. Yes, he gave in at the last minute, but that would be said of anyone, even the wisest and most moral ppl would have. Isildur I given a bad wrap but it was the same for him, elrond as wise as he was, did not seem to understand quite what he was asking in the movies when he told isildur to cast it into the fire. No person can destroy it without destroying themselves in the process. It was a blessing golum ended up taking the fatal blow in the end. Of course, other heroes in the lotr made sacrifices, too. Gandalf died to protect him and was brought back, Sam left the shire and gave up being a world conquering gardener 😆, and every one of them were prepared to lay down there lives so frodo had his chance to reach the fires of mount doom. But all of them save for frodo and Gandalf, were fighting for a world that was still theirs. Frodo and gandalf had either given up their share so others may keep it, or in Gandalf's case , they were there to fulfill a purpose. And while Gandalf may have died, middle earth was never meant for him. It was frodo who had made the greatest sacrifice in the end. He was giving up his home, and he thought, his very life, so others could keep theirs.
Beautifully put
I’ve always wondered this. I’ve read the books a few times and watched the movies several times. And I knew it had something to do with the wounds. But I’ve never had it explained before like this with no ambiguity. Thank you. After all these years I finally fully know.
It sounds a lot like grief where anniversaries ambush you. A wound that will never heal 😥
Not on this side of the Sea.
well time does not heal, it just makes you able to live with it.
I mean, I do believe that was the metaphor. The boys return home, to find that Merry and Pippin have turned some of their experience to civilian life while still bearing the mental signs of their anguish and grief; Sam has settled back into family life but is never quite able to shake off the horrors of war, ultimately having to leave on the White Ship because, for all he could put most of it out of sight, it was never out of mind; meanwhile, poor Frodo was simply too broken by the experience to survive. He could never have recovered from the ordeal, for all his strength, because the things he was required to do were too great. His experiences broke his ability to continue, and nothing - not time, not rest, not friends - would bring him to a place of being able to bear it. He left because he had to, leaving his friends in grief and sorrow but glad he's found peace, as an extremely clear alternative to simply killing himself. As a staunch Catholic, Tolkien would never have actually referred to his protagonist killing himself... but that's really what leaving on the White Ship _is,_ right? It's just a different form.
This isn't a very SUBTLE metaphor for "what happens when we come home from the war?", but it's not meant to be. It's MEANT to be obvious.
Frodo’s release came the moment he stepped onto the boat. His relief is shown in his tender, happy smile.
As a kid I didn't understand Frodo's plight. As an adult, cut by a morgul blade myself, I understand. Sometimes wounds don't heal. They are a constant reminder but, you do live and you do grow.
Thanks!
Simple. PTSD. The Ring really messed up his sense of well-being.
Not to mention taking two wounds that would have killed the strongest man and probably messed up an elf or dwarf.
PTSD is absolutely a huge piece of it. Maybe the biggest piece. But there’s also the physical maimings he suffered, and even more importantly there is a dark magical component as well.
Imdeed
Also, that morgul blade probably feel like a severe toothache and that shelob sting like being stung repeatedly by a tarantula-hawk wasp, along with some of his ribs shattered by that troll with a spear.
Wonderful stuff. Thank you for your work.
I've always felt that part of the reason was the exposure to the Ring left them with, for lack of a better term, "Sauron poisoning", a lingering magical malady that could only be healed in a land of magic, and magic was gone from Middle Earth. Only the undying lands could heal them of the lingering effects of a fallen Maiar.
I wonder if this was something Tolkien struggled with himself with throughout his life as a WWI vet. A Christian man whose hope for healing was on his own ‘distant shores’.
I know Tolkien wasn’t a fan of allegory, but honestly this is more of a reality of human mortality and a world where evil exists. Any story worth telling is going to feel analogous to life, that’s why it impacts us so profoundly.
PTSD. Him leaving Middle Earth was Frodo passing on in a sense albeit peacefully.
That sounds about right
TLDW.: He's too scarred. Both mentally and physically. PTSD and old wounds. Only exacerbated by magic.
Also the story needed a bittersweet end.
Those are the best ends to end such a big story to, the highest optimism we can realistically expect in life.
I always heard Frodo's comment at the council of Elrond of "I will take the Ring..." to effectively amount to "I will give my life to the saving of the Shire and all things good in the world" and so it was. I totally understand his reasons, his need.
Like all things that come from the power of the Ring, Frodo became a part of it as the bearer. At the ultimate point, he cannot give it up. It has taken him and he it. Then by chance it is destroyed. And with it a part of Frodo. Surely the wound from the Morgul blade was deep in body and spirit. But it seems that the loss of the Ring might have been a heavier blow.
Also there is the physical toll of the long burden just to get to Mount Doom (dragging a heavy burden - both mentally AND physically by the bearer). Also the poison of Shelob and the maiming by Gollum. And his capture by a Barrow-Wight. Frodo was pretty battered up by the end.
as a chronically ill person, the concept of healing and rest from wounds that could never heal otherwise and that no one else will ever truly understand unless theyve gone through the same things you have, being more desired and positive than some form of death or eternal life is so deeply relateable. yes, the PTSD Tolkien was relating to when writing this is deeply known to me. "i just want to feel okay (again)" is probably a sentiment JRRT felt very very often, and that feeling applies to so so many chronic issues, whether physical or mental that its hard not to recognize it in Frodo if you deal with these issues.
Sam may have been a resilient caretaker, and that deserves its own awards, but to come through a situation that leaves you with chronic pain and permanently alters your view of the world?? of course the desire to rest and recover is what calls to you the most.
Feel you. Chronic backpain here, how about you?
@@dummbobqqqqq whole body issues, my body doesnt use collagen right so most of the structures in my body arent in Great Shape
19 years of debilitating chronic pain and exhaustion. I can't remember what feeling perfectly well even felt like, much as Frodo couldn't remember what green grass looked like in Mordor.
Anlylosing Spondilitis. Formally diagnosed two years ago and I’m only 35.
There isn’t a day that I don’t wish that there was an actual cure for this.
I think the worst injury is from the ring - that he spent years possessing it, and ultimately, painfully, giving in to its pull. Then, almost immediately, having physically cut off of him, body and spirit. Aside from his hand, he was likely horrifically spiritually wounded. By the time he reached Mordor, the ring was taking up almost the entire field of his mind and awareness.
Agree with much of what you said, but I don't think possessing The Ring for long time did Frodo any harm. He rarely, if ever, used it. And he had no idea of its potency or innate power, so he was not constantly drawn to it.
IMHO- the fourth age really doesn't start until Sam goes west... as the last person left in middle earth who held the Ring, he and Frodo were the last vestiges of Sauron's touch in middle earth. When they exit, not only can they begin healing, but do can Middle Earth... that touch of Sauron's influence in them is that last shard of shrapnel in an old wound that is finally extracted.
One of the best vids that IDG has done.
This is so well thought out and well spoken.
"Sam couldn't go until until he was no longer torn in two, so stayed in Middle-earth until his wife Rosie died and his children grown up. Then he took a ship to spend his last years once more with Frodo."
Thank you, Robert, for yet another wonderful In Deep Geek video! Your contribution to geeky Tolkien scholarship is greatly appreciated!
However, I think we can be pretty certain that there would never be any reunion for Sam and Frodo. Not in this life, at any rate.
While such a reunion would be the ending I'm sure we all would wish for Sam and Frodo, it will not happen. All Sam will find In Eressëa (or in Aman) is the memory of Frodo, his tale preserved in story and song but remembered from personal experience only by Gandalf-Olorin and by the handful of Elves who met him in Middle-earth, such as Gildor Ingiorion, Glorfindel, Elrond, Galadriel and members of their respective retinues and households. Frodo himself will have been long dead. Tolkien makes it clear in his letters [154, 246, 325] that there is no prolonged life for mortals across the Sea, just the potential to find peace. Bear in mind, too, that Frodo was 12 years older than Sam, and he'd been grievously and permanently "wounded with knife, sting and tooth, and a long burden." Tolkien also writes that a mortal's natural life would, in fact, be shortened by virtue of being in the home of the immortals; as it says in the History of Middle-earth book "Morgoth's Ring", a mortal in the Blessed Realm "would wither even as a moth in a flame too bright".
Frodo has accepted the Gift of Ilúvatar. If any reunion with Sam is possible beyond the confines of this world, that is known to Ilúvatar alone. More cannot be said on the matter.
Tolkin knew quite well as do all who have experianced trauma... Some things so bad never really go away. I wish that wasn't true. But it is.
Thank you for your videos, your soothing voice always helps me to get into a cozy mindset before bed, and you turned me into a downright LotR nerd. ❤
think about the worst PTSD you can imagine, now multiply by 100, 1000, maybe 10000 times. I imagine thats the level of Frodos pain.
Tolkien had a difficult life, his personal experience are in the books, not an allegory, just life events that one cannot truly appreciate until you have experienced them. You can read about having a child but cannot truly understand what it’s like to be a parent until it has happened, you cannot understand loss until you have experienced it.
I've never quite forgiven Tolkien for giving Frodo a wound that recurs every year on my birthday. At least it makes it easy to remember when the skirmish at Weathertop happened.
Wow!! This video absolutely hit me between the eyes. Home from Iraq since 2004, I have yet to see the world the same as before. I guess I never will. People (and I myself) call me jaded. Perhaps so.
Bilbo spared Gollum. Very important decision for the whole Middle Earth.
I think this ending for Frodo feels so relevant for a writer who served in WW1. The idea of returning in victory but being unable to enjoy that victory because of personal experiences in a fight. This would have been the PTSD experience of many veterans of that war and no doubt Tolkien was aware of this.
I legit never, NEVER thought of the fact that it would weigh on Frodo that he didn’t actually destroy the ring. That he gave into it, and that it was Gollum who really destroyed it. That was a big “oooooooh” moment for me watching this video.
I discovered this channel last week and have been obsessed with watching/listening to your videos to gain more perspective into different facets of the Lord of the Rings.
I’m not gonna lie though, while it does have it’s flaws, this current season of Rings of Power, especially the Annette/Sauron/Cerebrimbor storyline did make me want to learn more about the forging of the rings! I know that they changed a lot of the story in the show, but it still hit hard!
Keep up the great work!
Sounds like Frodo had a PTSD
Pretty much. Tolkien had firsthand experience with what war can do to people. Some soldiers come home and enjoy the fruits of what they fought for. Others never find that peace.
Not just soldiers
It’s basically the magical version of it; or a metaphor perhaps.
@@MrKingYujicould we even say...an allegory?
I think Frodo's illness in March is due to the destruction of the Ring, which was the 25th of March (although Gondor will always celebrate it at the 1st of the New Year), and although Farmer Cotton found Frodo ill on the 13th of March (and Frodo would have been stung by Shelob a couple weeks prior to the destruction of the Ring) he was heard saying "It is gone forever, and now all is dark and empty" which strongly suggests to me his ailment was the loss of the Ring.
His wound from the Morgul blade in October is also interesting: According to Gandalf, after Frodo had been healed in Rivendell and was recovering, "he was smiling and there seemed to be little wrong with him. But to the wizard's eye there was a faint change, just a hint as it were, of transparency about him and especially about the left hand that lay outside the coverlet. 'Still, that must be expected, said Gandalf to himself 'He is not half through yet, and to what he will come in the end not even Elrond can foretell. Not to evil, I think. He may become like glass filled with a clear light for eyes to see that can"
This is interesting because later, in Ithilien, when Frodo was sleeping and Sam was stewing his brace of coneys, he said this about Frodo: "He was reminded suddenly of Frodo as he had lain, asleep in the house of Elrond, after his deadly wound. Then as he kept watch Sam had noticed that at times a light seemed to be shining faintly within; but now the light was even clearer and stronger." It would seem to me that Sam was one who Gandalf said had 'eyes to see that can', and I wonder if he would be considered among the Wise. I would love to imagine Samwise Gamgee on the White Council in the Fourth Age
There is no white council in the 4th age. The magic is gone. No elves, no wizards, and the orcs and goblins will be dying out shortly. The dwarves were already dying out.
Lovely tribute, Robert. Thank you.
It would be nice to have a video detailing everything around Utumno. It's such an important location and you almost never hear about it, so anyone wanting to know has no option but the slow read of the Silmarillion. Having someone more familiar with that stuff who still gives direct book descriptions would be a big improvement. It's made more confusing when it has two names, with Udun being a shared name between the area of Mordor around the Black Gate and the name of the deep fortress Melkor dug out in the north. Being the place orcs came from also makes it more interesting.
Well Sam did see Frodo again at the end of his time He had the last ship to the undying lands as he was a ring bearer too
He describes that in the vid
Wow 😮 I’m a psychic
Wow you outrage spammed before even watching the creators content.... smh.
Nope, just dumb who can't bother to actually listen @@markpjf85
We don't know that.
I've heard it said, "T'is better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war." I agree with the sentiment.
It was the 6th October. I feel like you should have released this yesterday.
Perhaps he couldnt or wouldnt for religious reasons...yesterday was sunday
@@hegemonycricket2182 Don't think the bible mentions anything about RUclips
@@HalfDayHero if you are a content creator then it is work.
Wow, just wow. I was a kid when I read the hobbit & the fellowship trilogy. It never dawned on me how much Frodo gave up for the world.
A comparison of this concept from a more modern series is Katniss Everdeen from the Hunger Games. Just like Frodo, Katniss is left broken at the end of the series. Even though she managed to bring down the evil President Snow and the Capitol and bring an end to the Hunger Games, Katniss is left broken from the horror and loss she experienced. A perfect demonstration of this is from the final paragraph in the final novel:
_"My children, who don’t know they play on a graveyard. Peeta says it will be okay. We have each other. And the book. We can make them understand in a way that will make them braver. But one day I’ll have to explain about my nightmares. Why they came. Why they won’t ever really go away. I’ll tell them how I survive it. I’ll tell them that on bad mornings, it feels impossible to take pleasure in anything because I’m afraid it could be taken away. That’s when I make a list in my head of every act of goodness I’ve seen someone do. It’s like a game. Repetitive. Even a little tedious after more than twenty years. But there are much worse games to play.”_
Just like Frodo, she couldn't enjoy the peace she fought so hard to bring about and was left forever scarred and broken, even after the physical wounds healed.
This channel gives me joy beyond measure.
Shit. After bearing the one ring, I may have just jumped into the volcano after the stress and sorrow.
Brilliant analogy explaining why Jon would go beyond the Wall at the end.
With splinter in his shoulder he knew it would kill him.
I love Frodo, healing is hard when it is something really hurtful, I've seen and felt, not something as horrid as war, but deep hurts, and they don't just go away. I cried this whole video, Frodo really gave everything, no one could ask for a better friend
As a veteran combat medic: Tolkien hit the nail on the head, not just with his portrayal of how PTSD can affect someone many many years later, but also with his portrayal of veteran relationships. The bonds we form with our battle buddies never really go away, I still call my old Sgt whenever I have a panic attack that is too much for me to handle on my own and he's NEVER missed a phone call from me. My partner has been with me for nearly 10 years now, and has never once begrudged this in any way that I've been able to see.
Our bonds with fellow veterans often seem close enough to be seen as romantic even when they aren't (see: Sam & Frodo and how many people think they're romantically in love with each other). We know how to show love and affection to our friends because most of us, eventually, know the pain of never being able to show those things to someone we care about ever again. And yes, folks could still be gay in these situations (I certainly am) but that does not make Frodo and Sam's bond a romantic one, same for Gimli and Legolas (though I think there's a far better chance there, we simply don't know).
I VERY much doubt homosexuality was something that Tolkein was considering in the least when writing, but your headcanon is yours.
Frodo died. This is a drawn out metaphor. This is a death scene. The Great War expression for dying and being put to rest was "going West.." Because, of course, for everyone from the UK and the Empire as well as France, this meant going home to be buried or remembered at least -- and this was westward. Tolkein says repeatedly that Frodo and the Elves were going "into the West." No way that this is not a reference to dying.
Tolkein was steeped in mythology, much of his story is metaphorical. Orcs "die" and are burned. Lesser figures are buried. But heroes get greater status: they "go into the West." Gandalf ascends, his status can change from Grey to White. Naturally, the heroes can do something more dignified than merely die. They go West. Just as dead, true. But sounds more fitting for persons of that status.
I can't imagine one ever truly recovers from the Battle of the Somme.
“Someone has to give them up, lose them, so that others may keep them.”
That may be one of the most affecting things Tolkien wrote.
Frodo may not have got a happy ending, but he did get a gentle one...
Your videos are completely charming. And moving. I can’t thank you enough for doing them.
It seems to me that like Gollum, Frodo was still addicted to the ring, still wanted and needed so badly that the rest of the world faded away and that he felt guilt for the ring’s destruction, and guilt about his guilt
You really do a Stellar job narrating these videos, thank you 😊
Frodo was on the threshold of becoming a Wraith, and being the last vestige of the rings evil ane can not remain in Middle Earth.
I can't put into words how much I appreciate this channel. Robert, keep up the brilliant work!
Could you or have done a video on the importance and history of Merry’s sword?
This part of the story reminds me of soldiers from wars. It would be PTSD. Tolkien recognized PTSD in wars and included it in his story.
I have to think that the elves' superior foodstuffs and skill in healing would have a beneficial effect on Frodo's health, along with the effect of being in a land protected and blessed by the Valar. Although he (and Bilbo) might have lived their last years comparatively free of disease and illness, death would eventually take them, but I have to think that this would have occurred much later than in Middle-Earth.
And there is no hint of the "The Shadow" on Tol Eressea, to bother Frodo.
I believe that's exactly what happened. I don't think there's a wound a mortal can take that they couldn't heal.
I like to believe that Frodo, Bilbo, and even Sam were allowed to rest in Valinor for as long as they wanted. They weren't immortal, really, and of course at that point in their lives, they wouldn't want to be immortal. But nor were they forced to die before they were ready.
Without lembas they don’t make it
That final scene when Gandalf says it’s time Frodo …. I was in tears 😭 was so moving and emotional
Frodo was in a kind of pain no one could've been able to comprehend. His very soul was basically broken and reformed during his journey with the ring. It wasn't just about his Shoulder or Shelob, or Gollum taking his finger. Tolkien said "Frodo is a Hobbit broken down into something quite different " Spiritually he was Grown bigger than a ordinary Hobbit by enduring that suffering and resisting the evil of the ring on his Mind and Body even seeing it's true form as a "Wheel of Fire". It was horrifying Evil that he was strong enough to bear until the end. But couldn't rest with afterwards.
I'd love a video on What exactly Frodo was "Broken down into".
I grew up in neighborhood of WW2 veterans. My Father was one. He told me “When you see too much you can never unsee it.” He was severely wounded and always walked with a limp. That’s what I believe Tolkien was describing.
Definitely the whole story was an allegory for ww1 which many never returned from mentally due to shell shock what we refer to as ptsd now
Great video as always but lets be serious here The Song of Ice and Fire is never going to be completed. At least not by Martin.
Cry
Thank you most kindly. You have given me a new (and humbling to me) perspective of and appreciation for Frodo.
Am ashamed I never appreciated how much he’d given up at the end. 😢❤
We are all on journey’s to deeper understanding.
The metaphysical harms and injuries of the experiences of the Ringbearers, especially Frodo, cannot be underplayed I think. The deleterious metaphysical impact of Melkor's interference with the Song of the Ainur, and by extension Sauron's metaphysical impact via The One Ring, metaphysically wound to a terrible degree; I think Tolkien knew that many struggle to see invisible wounds, so require a physical injury for validation...
Aside from his physical wounds, he dealt with the pull of the ring which in my opinion was like an addiction. Even at the last moment knowing what pain and torment it brings you, there is a desire to hold on to it. An addict might be grateful that they are done, free from the darkness, but they will never be whole. Not in the way they were before. There will always be times of doubt, a fear, or perhaps a longing. It is too a wound that can never fully heal.
Already know it’s going to be a good one.
A beautiful essay, thank you. Considering Tolkein's own experience, perhaps Frodo, his wounds not withstanding, simply wanted to be reunited with Bilbo.
2:00 are you mad you didn't release this yesterday? 😉
Your writing is sublime, Robert. I love listening to your videos. Thank you for making things like The Lord of the Rings so much easier for me to understand. xxx
He didn't have to. He wanted to.
I never really understood Frodo when I was much younger. I loved the more obviously heroic characters. But, as I've gotten older and been through many a tragedy, I've come to understand and love Frodo. Part of that understanding came from watching the movies (oddly enough). Seeing Frodo get beaten down and always getting back up...only to get beaten down again, was heartbreaking. And finally, the previous 10 years of my own life (so far) almost broke me. To this day, I have a really difficult time living where I do. Too many reminders. Too many echoes of despair. I've often wished I had the wherewithal to move far away from all the reminders. That was when I truly got Frodo's sacrifice. No, he does not get the credit he deserves. But, he still did it. And at least he got some rest before dying. I understand. Frodo has become my favourite character of all.
Frodo reached out for help once in the town of Whiterun. The Whiterun Guard saw that Frodo had a long face, so the guard asked "Let me guess, someone stole your sweet roll?" 😥😥😥
I totally get the comparison between Tolkien’s mental war wounds and how he put them in words through Frodo’s sad adventure. Because of the rings influence on the voyage from the Shire to Rivendell, I think that Frodo really knew what he was getting into when he volunteered to take the ring to Mordor. You could see it in his facial expression.
Akshually, GRRM’s actual quote about endings was, “Huh? What’s that?”
A very poignant and powerful video. I thought I was very well versed in LOTR but you have opened a window to so much more. Truly gifted insight to the genius of Tolkien.
0:14 because he wasnt peaceful I guess.
Hearing this perspective is heartbreaking and I think adds even more bearing to the sacrifices Frodo made for this quest. It gives me even more respect for the writing of these stories.
I have never been so early
Me too and yet still 200 views before me dammit lol
Also very telling about the pain on anniversaries as this is something I am sure that Tolkien would have felt about his fallen friends and other tragic dates he'd lived through.