I feel as though Alexander popes translation could be very hard to read at times and it felt drawn out at times, that being said he did create rich imagery for the battle in the Iliad.
As a 17 years old kid from Burma, I can't thank you enough for these literature videos. I'm a STEM student but reading has always been my leisure. Thank you for introducing more books to me and all these analysis are top tier. I wish you good luck, man.
I'm so happy to hear that! It's amazing to hear you're in STEM, and I have always wanted to visit beautiful Burma :) I was nearby a few years ago, and really should have visited. Happy reading, my friend!
Why does it seems like it's talking about the thing that keeps happening every so often that destroys the inhabitants of earth that a sea captain is navigating then writing about then saying "yall come back now ya hear?"
Well met fellow voyager. I'm fifty years further on the journey but feel happiness and excitement with every new or rediscovery. No one with a good book to hand will ever be lonely or bored.
I read the E.V. Rieu version of the Iliad and Chapman's Odyssey. Got a lot out of both of them. Chapman can be dizzying at times, but there is also a beauty and humour in it that is distinct from many of the other translations.
The E. V. Rieu was my first :) It sounds like a lot of us formed an emotional attachment to it. I love the word "dizzying" to describe Chapman, and I completely agree with you that it has a beauty and humour distinct from the others!
So I just found your channel and love your content. I have always loved EV Rieu’s prose translation. I still have my copy from 8th grade, which is when I was first introduced to and fell in love with Homer. The story is that he translated it out loud for his wife and daughters while bombs were falling during WW2. I love that image…
Thank you Ben! There were probably four of these translations that spoke to me, so i chose two of them. I really like how you've taught us to look for translations that work for us.
I loved the sound of the Fagles and Pope extracts. Audible also has a great translation by WHD Rouse, read by Anthony Heald, which I would gladly pay for every time I listen.
I really like Stephen Mitchell’s translations of Homer. Simple and incredibly easy to read. I don’t know the first thing about poetry, so I can’t comment on whether or not he uses some form throughout…I couldn’t tell. He focuses on the story & i really dug that. Even though while reading I couldn’t say whether or not I was reading poetry, his translation made me truly appreciate the old works so that now I am actually interested in seeing what the other translations are all about.
I'm a big fan of the Stephen Mitchell too. Gets you right into the story, as you say :) "Sing to me, Muse, of that endlessly cunning man who was blown off course to the ends of the earth, in the years after he plundered Troy."
Emily Wilson's for me, no doubt. As a native spanish speaker, with no knowledge of greek and very intimidated of reading The Classics™, her work was a great introduction. It made it approachable, understandable and engaging. I'm hoping I can get a copy of her translation of The Iliad soon in the future.
@@benmclaren273 oh that's because I was taking a class on greek mythology in English. I figured it would be best to keep things straight by reading the text in the same language
If you ever decide to read Homer in Spanish, check out Luis Segalá’s translation. It’s accessible yet it still retains the stateliness of something written so long ago.
The Wilson version sounds like a BBC newsreader on prozac. Try the TE Lawrence translation instead. It’s written by a real adventurer and leader of men.
I had two favorites; Lombardo and Chapman. I know, it's a little odd to pick these two that are so different. Regarding Chapman, I really love the early modern English and literature of that period and because of this I easily responded to Chapman's approach. Regarding Lombardo, what attracted me was his sense of rhythm and pulse, that really pulled me in. Now that I think about it, both Chapman and Lombardo seem to pay attention to rhythm, though they use different rhythms, and that might be why I settled on these two. // Thanks for the video and overview of these translations.
Wilson's is such a triumph. It's absolutely beautiful, understandable, cheeky, and -most important- the translation is a poem, an iambic pentameter poem. Outstanding work.
This was invaluable! Thank you so much! Having never read homer before and hardly any works of great literature, this was so helpful! My favourite was lombardo, then buttler and then Wilson
Thank you! This was delightful and informative. I found your video as I was puzzling over aspects of the Fagles Odyssey which I've been reading aloud to my wife every evening before sleep. I now think what I've been experiencing are little injections of modern language into the more familiar Homeric rhythms. I realize that my only formal study of The Odyssey was at Trinity College, Hartford, using the Richmond Lattimore translation. I must be missing some of those consistent and repetitious passages. After listening to your readings, I'm inclined to give Emily Wilson a read. The Odyssey has always felt like the matrist half of Homer's full epic, with The Iliad providing the complementary patrist orientation. In any event, many thanks and best of luck with your teachings.
1. Wilson is a gifted versifier, perhaps the best of the modern Homer translators. Her iambics are a marvel--fitting the meter line after line while remaining clear and natural. 2. That said, I would only recommend he Odyssey to a pre-teen, or an adult beginner looking for a modern "take" rater than fidelity. I have read all of Homer in Greek, so I frequently compare translations to the original. Wilson deliberately a) mis-translates, b) omits or invents words, and c) translates the same word in different ways, all in the service of biasing the reader for or against a character. Some have said that this is always the case in translation. But of the 7 Odyssey translations I have read, hers is by far the most egregious in this regard. 4. I have not yet read her Iliad, but a first glance suggests that she has taken a much more honest approach to its translation. 5. For a good analysis of her Odyssey, find Whitaker's (or Whittaker?) review online.
Richard Whitaker, University of Cape Town, "Homer's Odyssey Three Ways: Recent Translations by Verity, Wilson, and Green." Thanks for the pointer. The examples he gives of Wilson's distortions are pretty damning, imo.
While in graduate school I was doing a dissertation on Thucydides' History of the Pelopnessian War, and Thucydides himself contrasted his effort with Homer's epic narrative of the Trojan war in his Iliad, so as part of my research I was instructed by my advisor to read George Chapman's Elizabethan translation. Chapman was recommended because of the poetic vigor and magnificence of his poetic rendition and Chapman's absolute love of Homer. At first I struggled with the Elizabethan English, but eventually fell in love with it and, I. The process, understood why the Greeks loved Homer and his Iliad. Later a professor of ancient Greek opined that Chapman's effort comes the closest to the muscular poesy of Homer's epic, and I have always appreciated the guidance of my professors for introducing me to the wonders of Chapman's Iliad and it absolutley enriched my understanding and appreciation of Thucydides.
Thats awesome to know. It made me think that there's this poet who made poems about Chapman's translation of Homer (it was a big deal at the time). It was John Keats, who wrote "On first looking into Chapman's Homer". I only can't recall if his opinion of Chapman was favorable or not.
@@sarahtalone6251 You probably already know this by now, but just in case: It was indeed Keats, "On First Looking Into Chapman's Homer" -- and he was very complimentary in the poem. In fact, Chapman's translation blew his mind. It was life changing for him; he felt like an explorer seeing the Pacific Ocean for the first time.
Great video. One of my long 'projects' has been collecting different translations of The Iliad and The Odyssey. Favourite has always been Lattimore and Fagles, but I am liking Emily Wilson's Odyssey so far (not very far into it)
I just watched a video of Emily Wilson talking about how she went about translating the Odyssey and and it is really inspiring to see her thought process. It really adds to reading her version. Anyone who can speak more than one language knows how much unconcious bias ends up in translated works or how phrases are changed to fit the target language. It definitely is not an easy task!
I share the same top three: Butler, Fagels, and Wilson, not in any particular order. I also read multiple versions at the same time just to compare them. I enjoy the prose style because I think the intention of the storyteller is for the listener to be able to follow it. Maybe the poetic versions are more popular with people more serious about Homer. It wasn't until I was in my fifties did I realize there were versions I could choose over others. The recommended versions were always the older ones. It's when I started listening to audiobooks in the different styles that I realized I have a strong preference for prose translations. Thank you for your video. Angie
I missed very much in this video the translation by Peter Green (2019), which is the most accurate in English IMHO: The man, Muse - tell me about that resourceful man, who wandered far and wide, when he'd sacked Troy's sacred citadel: many men's townships he saw, and learned their ways of thinking, [...] He even copies the commas, the enjambment, etc. which helps you to read along the Greek version (if it were a bilingual edition).
My three favorites in order of preference: Fagles, Latimore, and Lombardo. I picked them based on being able to understand what's happening. But I definitely want to read Louge's version some day. Thank you so much Ben for doing this video. You have helped me nail down the translation I will be using. All of your videos are so valuable. Can't say thanks enough!
You never cease to amaze me with the breadth and scope of the literary topics you choose for your videos. Imagine! an extensive examination of the best known translators of Homer and samples of their translations! I found these comparisons to be both illuminating and extraordinarily interesting. My choice would be the Butler translation for an initial exposure and then perhaps a comparative read with one of the more formal translators such as Chapman.
Thank you very much :) I really appreciate that. I'm honestly so thrilled that there is such an amazing community of readers who love this kind of deep content and discussion. And very nice choice with the Butler translation. I think Chapman would definitely make a great comparative read!
Fagle is my favorite. The readability really helps the story move. It has a very good flow and it reads like an action adventure. Admittedly, there feels like less poetry but I think it’s one of the best translations particularly if you’re trying to get a young person interested. My second favorite is Chapman. I really enjoyed the old-fashioned feel of it. Also it makes me feel smart. Which is a ridiculous reason to like it. But oh well. 😊
I have trouble with Fagle over Lattimore's translation. To each their own but after u read Lattimore's translation I don't think I would read any other version.
Emily Wilson 100%. Made a good choice when i bought it as my first copy of the odyssey (and I will buy her new translation on the illiad soon as I'm done reading the one I got) but through your video I found Alexander Pope's translation and I kind of loved the excerpts, but maybe not as my first time reading the story.
Thanks for posting this video! I had planned to reread The Odyssey this summer as preparation for jumping back into Ulysses. Allen Mendelbaum was the translator on my first reading of The Odyssey, but your inclusion of Emily Wilson has made me consider going through two versions, Wilson and Fagles or Mandelbaum. I am interested in emphasis put on the female characters.
Thank you for this. Your Anna Karenina blind taste test set me on the path of success with that amazing novel. My twelve year-old and I just did this Homer blind taste test with you during our breakfast. We liked Fagles, Butler, and Wilson, though I was personally most excited by the Lambardo. Ultimately, we have the Fagles in our home and will be going forward with it, but now with more confidence as it ranked well for both of us!
Thank you! I thoroughly enjoyed putting together the AK taste test, so I'm thrilled to hear that :) And I feel blessed that you would both share your breakfast with me! Fagles, Butler, Wilson, and Lombardo - very nice list. My favourites too :)
Your channel is fantastic! I'm so glad I stumbled across it. You're an excellent teacher. Your videos are helping me get more out of reading literature than I every anticipated. Thank you!
I just received my Great Books of the Western World this week. Hail, Adler! I listened to your translations and I rated Samuel Butler a 5 out of 5. I’m thrilled to find out this is the translation I have. I’m very curious about Emily Wilson’s translation and will get that too for a side by side read. Thank you so much for this exercise.
Congratulations on becoming a proud owner of the set :) And how wonderful that the Butler ended up being your favourite! I love cracking open that "volume four" of an evening and dipping into both epics :)
Patricia I too have the Great Books collection, but somehow I have a different edition that has the Lattimore translation of Homer. I've ordered a used copy of the Samuel Butler, too, just that book, to remind me of my first reading of The Iliad that I loved so much in that translation particularly
Scott, you are correct about the Great Books translation, my mistake. The reason for it is that I own “The Five Foot Shelf” or The Harvard Classics. My books are a first printing 1909/10. I had been looking at those and mixed up the translation. I’m reading Emily Watson’s copy now. This is due to Professor Benjamin’s: Find the translation that gets you into the story…. Wise. Reading Homer now is like butter. I’m loving it.
@@patriciam1550 the Harvard classic bookcase was interesting too. I think the great books did use the butler in their earlier editions - the first copy I saw was in the library and it was that deep tan color with butler. My newer editions (1980s) are black & had lattimore.
Sorry, I'm commenting on the Iliad because I don't think you have a video about Iliad translations! I just got the Fagels and I'm in book 9. My only previous experience is with the Lattimore. Fagles is so much easier to read and understand! It's very exciting. Just having titles for the chapters and spaces between some of the long blocks of text is helpful in itself. It just bugs me every once in a while with phrases where Fagles seems to consciously choose the lamer word to avoid using a famous word that Lattimore used. Specifically, in the repeated line about people dying with their armor falling loudly on them, Fagles would rather poke out is eyes with burning sticks than use Lattimore's "clattered," choosing instead to use a variety of less appropriate words like "rang" or "clanged." It's a very minor point...but I'm just stuck on "clattered." I can see also that Lattimore probably got closer to the rhythm of the Greek lines. I loved the sound of the Samuel Butler excerpts in this video, but wish he hadn't used the Latin names like Jove. I don't know why those rub me the wrong way so much. The names themselves just sound...weaker...than the Greek names. If you do a translation video for the Iliad I'm curious what you think of Pope's translation. I saw a comment saying that his translation of the Iliad is much better than his Odyssey. Bernard Knox even said it's "the finest ever made..."
My favourite of the bunch you presented was the Fagle but I also liked the Lombardo and the Butler. I have read the E.V. Rieu translation and listened to W. H. D. Rouse, both of which I enjoyed immensely. I had no idea there were so many translations available. I would love more videos like this. It was interesting and very helpful.
The E. V. Rieu was my first :) I'll have to source out a copy of the W. H. D. Rouse! And we can definitely do more of these videos - they're some of my favourites to do. Sitting down with a stack of books and comparing translations is good fun :)
Thanks for this! Exactly the sort of comparison video I was looking for on this. I think Fagle and Wilson were my favorites from the taste test. Which is interesting because Fagle seems to be one of the big favorites while Wilson gets a more mixed reception from my research.
Ben, Thank you so much for these awesome videos. You inspired me to start In Search of Lost time. I'm now on volume 3. I have watched most of your videos. Got a copy of miss Wilson's translation of Odyssey. I finds it very accessible. However, I do have a question. If someone were to ask me, why should we read Dostoyevsky or Proust, I can now confidently answer. However, I can't say the same for Odyssey. I feel it is a simple adventure tale (I know I'm wrong). Do you have a video on why Odyssey is relevant or why we should read Homer? If you could suggest some pointers, that would be awesome.
Hey Benjamin. I want to share my experience with Homer, I did not listen to all the readings. I am 57, I did not read Homer as a child, but when I was about 22. College age. I read two translations (both epics) around that time: E.V. Rieu (prose Benjamin), and Lattimore's. Lattimore is better known for his translation of - The Iliad. I did a paper using Latt's Il. I read his Oresteia as well. I had a professor suggest that one should read Lattimore's Iliad and Fitzgerald's Odyssey. I read some of WHD Rouse's Iliad. This seemed to be one of those works with the British - "pip-pip" stuff. Moreover, I should have read more translations. I would like to try the classic translations: Chapman, Pope. I would like to try a 19th century tr - Lang, Leaf and Myers!! TY Benjamin. Excellent discussions you are releasing. I like your plugging prose translations, and that of Butler's TE Lawrence translated the Odyssey into prose. TY again Benjamin...!!!!
While I truly appreciate the Fagles translation, Robert Fitzgerald’s translation is my go-to for Homer. I absolutely love his interpretation. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
I like the Latimore bc it gives a feel (I think) of the original. he's exceptionall;y strong not only on meter, but on similes, and nobody does Homeric metaphors better. not the easiest, but in my mind, matches more of what I felt like for the Iliad and Odyssey felt like to be heard.
the big deal here is that you can hear the poet's artifice, the standard gerunds, to make a line come out correctly. I feel closer to Homor with Lattimore than others.
Peter Green's translation of both The Iliad and The Odyssey were phenomenal. Loved those. Very very sad he didn't have a translation of The Aeneid. RIP Peter Green
Robert Fagles translation is the best for me, I picked it up at my high school library, not for an assignment but just to read it. I read in my junior year of high school, and within 10 pages, I was hooked, I read it like I was addicted to it. Reading 📚 is a drug 😅
Can i apply all this to the iliad? it seems they are the same translators and would translate the iliad similarly to their Odyssey, or is that the wrong assumption?.
I'm not a fan of reading verse and find it a struggle. I'm currently reading The Iliad and the E.V. Rieu prose translation. Highly recommended and the text flows brilliantly!
I scored the translations on two categories: clarity (5 points) and Beauty (5 points). The translation that scored highest: 1. A. T. Murray, 1919: 9 / 10 2. Richmond Latimore, 1951: 8.5 / 10 All the other translations scored between 5 and 7, so I won't hesitate too much :)
Muse, tell me of the man of many wiles, the man who wandered many paths of exile after he sacked Troy's sacred citadel. He saw the cities - mapped the minds - of many; and on the sea, his spirit suffered every adversity - to keep his life intact, to bring his comrades back. In the last task, his will was firm and fast, and yet he failed: he could not save his comrades. Fools, they foiled themselves: they ate the oxen of the Sun, the herd of Helios Hyperion; the lord of light requited their transgression- he took away the day of their return. Muse, tell us of these matters. Daughter of Zeus, my starting point is any point you choose. The sun had left the splendid sea: it climbed into the bronze of heaven, bringing light to the immortals and to those who die on earth, the giver of the gift of grain. The Ithacans had reached the coast of Pylos, the sturdy fortress-city built by Neleus. Along the shore, the men of Pylos stood, offering sacrifices - jet black bulls - to please the dark-haired god who shakes the land: Poseidon, lord of quakes and shifting sands. Nine sectors had been traced along the beach; five hundred men had been assigned to each, and every sector sacrificed nine bulls. Now, after tasting of the inner parts, the men of Pylos, with their feast in course, were offering burnt thighbones to the god, when, heading straight for shore, the visitors hauled in and furled the sail of their lithe ship. They moored. They disembarked. Athena stepped onto the shore; Telemachus came next. This translation is Allen Mandelbaum, 1990. Unlike Pope's metronomic plodding, this poetry sings. The alliterations flow with the rhythms and the rhymes both surprise and delight. I hear an affinity between Mandelbaum's work and Kimon Friar's beautiful translation of Nikos Kazantzaki's The Odyssey: A Modern Sequel. Open either translation to any page and let yourself be transported to a mythical world suffused by poetic beauty.
I just found your channel yesterday, and I am loving what you’re doing. I’ve been trying to read more classics, and just finished this spring reading through Fagle’s Iliad. I loved it so much, and I find your comment near the end of the video to be true. That translation of the Iliad made me want to read more Homer via Fagles. So I picked up his translations of the Odyssey, the Aeneid, and the three Theban plays. Keep up the great work.
Thank you so much, Jonathan :) I really appreciate that! And I'm so thrilled to hear you loved Fagle's Iliad. It's incredibly exciting that you're moving through the classics with such strength and love!
While you were reading the Samuel Butler excerpt, I was unsettled by the word "Neptune," which is what the Romans called Poseidon; and I thought to myself: Greeks would never employ that Latinized name-how strange! So I grabbed my own copy of the Butler translation, and sure enough, my version of that translation refers to the god as Poseidon! This heartened me! I therefore concluded that there must be more than one edition of Butler's translation. Thank you for comparing and contrasting these varied translations. I think for the time being I shall stick to Mr. Butler's rendering.
I prefer Fagles and Lattimore over Rouse, Pope, etc. The translations by Wilson and Mitchell are on my TBR list. I just have to decide which one to read first.
Thanks for this video. I've been meaning to read this work for a long while so this should help a lot. I always enjoy the way that you sell the great works and make them sound exciting to read, which often they do turn out to be. Maybe you could do another video like this for the Divine Comedy?
Thank you, John :) I appreciate that! I’m actually working on some Dante content at the moment. It certainly seems like Dante would be a super popular one, so we can definitely discuss La divina commedia!
The Odyssey is one of my absolute favourite books and I have several translations. I must admit that I enjoy parts of A T Murray’s very much, ‘So saying he plunged beneath the surging sea but I went to my ships with my godlike comrades, and many things did my heart darkly ponder as I went’. My heart ached for Menelaus when I read this passage, it is so relatable. Thanks for this wonderful analysis.
Thank you for sharing that, Julie. Your love of Homer's Odyssey comes through so strong. It's one of my personal favourite works of literature too. I frequently pick it up aiming to enjoy my favourite episodes for a moment, and then it takes hold of me and the time, and pages, simply fly by!
Towering above all my readings of Homer is Pope's Iliad, a breathless thrill to read out loud, a great poet at the peak of his powers, for me impossible to put down. But not Pope's Odyssey, a 2nd rate phoned-in effort by comparison -- his heart wasn't in it. Of the Odyssey translations on offer here, I'd pick Fagles, Emily Wilson and Lombardo, although not always in that order, and I'd lump Robert Fitzgerald into that company. I like Murray's Loeb too, a lot, but wonder why Loeb doesn't have a dead-on literal interlinear crib. What would you recommend as a scholarly companion to reading Homer -- best notes and essays and all that jazz? For now I just use the Oxford Classical Dictionary. Thanks, this was my first of your vids.
Although I'm Spanish my first reading of anything Homer was the Emily Wilson poetic translation. Her skill to make it sound modern blew me away. Thanks to Wilson I understood Homer is meant to be read aloud AT people. I got into it much more deeply when I was able to convince a flatmate to sit though some pages, ha. I was even tempted to go to the speakers' corner and just get on with it, but never did dare. Oh and that's great news about the Illiad!
Here is the ranking I ended with: 1) Lombardo (1997) 2) Fagles (1990) 3) Murray (1919) 4) Lattimore (1951) 5) Wilson (2018) 6) Chapman (1598-1616) 7) Pope (1713-20) 8) Buttler (1898) I personally own and have read Wilson's and Fagles' translations many times and highly recommend both, but I'm more than willing to give Lombardo a try! It got me hooked from the first line in the excerpt! I'd also like to pick up Murray's to start learning Ancient Greek. I suspect it will be invaluable in that endeavor.
Hey! So, as we're already talking about translations here, I would like to ask if you have a preferred War and Peace translation (into English)? Or do you suppose there's one out there that could be better than the others? Thanks for the video! I'd like to add something, but I haven't yet read the whole Illiad, I've begun reading a translation done by a Harvard professor of the subject (Ancient Greek Literature/Classics, can't remember exactly), which is well explained and easy to follow for a total beginner, but the only physical copy I own is in Portuguese. Still have a long way until I get to the Odissey :)
Pevear and Volokhonsky do a terrific job with their War and Peace :) I also have the Maude and Constance Garnett translations, but I'd personally give it to P&V. Sounds like a great translation, Sarah, I'd love to check that one out myself!
@@BenjaminMcEvoy I've been hearing mixed things about P&V translation, that their work is "too literal" and even that it isn't very authentic (as if too many translations have been mixed in their work). On the contrary, Maude's version would be the more " stylistically" accurate, also is the one that got approved by Tolstoy himself. These aspects have really been conflicting to me, so I am on the look out for detailed opinions. I take yours gladly and will consider the P&V version more favorably.
@@sarahtalone6251 Instead of the Maude, I suggest looking into the Mendelker-revised Maude translation, which preserves the French dialogue (translating it in footnotes), and touches up Russian subtleties.
Great vid! Love it! Although what did poor Fitzgerald do wrong : ( Haha just wish was included. Although his Iliad is better, and with Odyssey easier/sweeping and less dense is probably more appropriate, i.e. Fagles or Lombardo. An obscure and quite intriguing translation of Odyssey I randomly came across in a tiny used bookshop was by Ennis Rees - 1960
Getting back into the classics after a couple of years studying for an engineering degree but I had the pleasure of experiencing Emily Wilson read sections of her Iliad last week!
If this helps my fellow homeschooling families, we begin diving into The Iliad with Rosemary Sutcliff's "Black Ships Before Troy" (an Iliad re-telling), followed by Sutcliff's “The Wanderings of Odysseus”. We read them slowly, 2 to 3 chapters a week with an oral narration from my children after each reading. We've even sketched a sort of "family tree" on our bookmark to get the names and sides straight as we read. It gives a wonderful groundwork to enjoy the actual classic Homer books afterwards. Thank you, Benjamin - I just love you and your videos.
That is so cool! Thank you so much for sharing that :) Sounds like a beautifully planned syllabus. And thank you for your kind words! Happy Homering :)
Amazing video. Thank you so much for encouraging me to do my own thinking and decision making, rather than just telling me what you think. I ranked out of 5. Stanley Lombardo, whom I had not heard of before, earned a 5 out of 5. I love the way the text looks on the page. I love the wording and the simplicity. It's easy to understand and it's not too wordy. Secondly, I gave Robert Fagles a 4.5. Fagles translation was very exciting because it pulls you into the story. Then, T. Murray, and Samuel Butler both a 4 out of 5, even though they're very different. I like Murray because he's the most literal translation which is useful to have access to and the Loeb books coming with the Greek on the opposite page is wonderful for students. I gave Lattimore and Wilson a 3 out of 5. I gave Logue and Chapman a 2 out of 5. I have my lowest score to Alexander Pope. 1 out of 5, because I completely lost interest in the story when that translation was being read to me. Now I need to decide if I should buy the Lombardo or the Fagles.
I just realised that the Emily Wilson translation is what I have been listening to on Audible. It's narrated by Claire Danes. I like it a lot. It's really easy, and even soothing to listen to. My favourite thing about it is how she translates certain repeated phrases slightly differently in each book. For example, in one place she writes, "when Dawn came, born early, her fingertips like petals..." and in another place she translates it, "soon Dawn appeared and touched the sky with roses."
@@osheas i think the most poetic is Chapman, but difficult to read. Now I read Iliad by Rieu, it is prose and good for understanding the story, especially for non native speaker, and I read few pages than compare to Chapman. For Odyssey I think I will read Lattimor or Albert Cook, they followed Homer line by line. I would like to read modern translation but in rhythm of Chapman, but I don't know if that translation even exist :)
I first read Homer as child in a very lightly adapted version for the TV series Wishbone when I was like 9. Fell in love with the story, we went on to read it in school multiple excruciating times but I still love the book, it's the foundation for so much
What a great idea for a video. For me, it's a toss up between Robert Fagel, Stanley Lombardo and Samuel Butler (in no particular oder.) I did read The Odyssey over 20 years ago but unfortunately, I can't remember the name of the translator for that particular version. I did enjoy it though - it is a classic story full of adventure and wonder. Out of curiosity, do a lot of these versions include the classic epiphets such as "...the wine dark sea" and "...the rosy fingered dawn?" I will definitely have to obtain a translation that includes those particular epiphets.
thank you so much for this video! you really put in a lot of work into making this and i think people will be visiting this as a resource for years to come. personally i really wanted a prose version so i'll be going with murray or butler, but i'd love to also read wilsons and lombardo at some point. thanks again!
Funnily enough, I just purchased (and received) the Emily Wilson translation today! Now, I'm even more excited to read it, and I may have purchase her translation of The Iliad next
What a wonderful experiment! thanks Had not heard of War Music before, but the reference to the speed of light in the passage you read intrigued me. An intentional anachronism. Now I’ve found that Audible has it vibrantly performed by Logue himself. Another astounding anachronism in the sample they provide: Ajax “tan as Rommel after Alamein.” An opportunity to hear an epic from the mouth of its composer, as if an iteration of the story from one of the bards working in the Homeric perfomative tradition!
Latimore was mine. I was transported by him as a young reader. A+. Fagles; a solid B. Pope: A solid C+. Speaks to its time... but not mine. Chapmen: Good. A healthy B. Logue: I love it. A solid A. Murray" Easy and pleasant. A solid B. Lombardo: B- It seemed too earnest... I could be wrong. Shit. I gotta go. I'll be back. Love the channel.
Thank you for an excellent lecture on Odyssey's English translations. I was happy to learn that my favorites are exactly like yours - Samuel Butler, Emily Wilson and Robert Fagles. Stanley Lombardo and Christopher Logue interested me as well. I shall read both. It was a truly revelatory journey!
Wonderful (if long, sounds like someone we know) video. To sit and enjoy in a coffee shop or at the beach? Wilson and Fagles. I want a balance of modern, easy to read language that hints at the twisting complexity of the original. The Latimore is fine. Not a fan of the older poets. And of course the Loeb is a special, if not the most readable, translation.
Champan's Odyssey is exquisite. There's something noble and likewise rough and unhewn about Elizabethan poetry, which may easily describe Homer's style as well. I could go on, but I'll only say that unlike Pope, even though both him and Chapman translated the Odyssey in herioc couplets, there's something weightier about Chapman. Pope feels too light and polished. Though it's obvious he took liberty in his translation, I somehow find Chapman to be faithful to Homer.
Hmm. Christopher Logue lived during a time when we knew light had speed. I wonder if it did during Homer's time. I was reading an Odessey translation that talked about "the purple sea." That was it for me. How could anyone destroy Homer's beautiful metaphor of "the wine dark sea?" I like Chapman. Isnt there a poem about on first looking into Chapman's Homer? I will Google it. I do have a Pope Pdf Iliad, but was disappointed. I think I like maybe Butler better. There is a translator named Butler? I stood in the corner through Catholic school, and through graduate school.
Well English isn''t my first language so n°5 - by Christopher Logue's and Lombardo's are the easiest, despite the fact I've mixed feelings about them. However after listening the pieces a couple of times, I can't decide between Samuel Butler's and Emily Wilson''s translations. I liked both very much. I'd probably challenge myself a little bit and go for Emily's.
I settled on Fagels. He's readable and easier to understand. I discovered that the Fagel translation is on RUclips so I can listen if I like. ruclips.net/video/mfhUBdwKmOI/видео.html . Hope this helps someone.
17:30 says Poseidon. 33:45 says Neptune. Which is it? Does the original Greek not specify by a proper noun, so scholars guess? I just want the translation that is textually faithful prose. Poetic style is a bonus, but I don’t want to sacrifice faithfulness to the original text.
Totally agree Homer's plays in prose are beautiful!!! Butler's version is my favorite, even though the translation of W.H.D Rouse is a good prose translation as well.
OMG! I have been wanting to find something just like this for a while. I want to read the Iliad (and maybe eventually the Odyssey) but all the choices (editions and translations) have just been too daunting. I graded them (American style) as you suggested, in order: B, B+, F, F, C+, A-, A, A, A+ So, technically Emily Wilson won, however, if I'm going to read Homer, I want to read the real Homer, not some feminist version of it -- at least not at first. My initial thoughts would have been to just automatically dismiss the older versions and stick with the more recent translations, so it's very interesting to see how great the Butler one is.
I have read the Fagles and it is clear and easy to read, so enjoyed it but the rhythm doesn't do it for me. I have and like the Pope, but the 60s Penguin translated by E V Rieu was my first love and I still compare all others to it. I need to explore the Chapman version.
The E. V. Rieu was my very first translation :) I'm going to hunt out my battered old copy now. And it's great to hear you're a fan of the Pope - he's been getting some love today!
I find Richmond Lattimore's translation to be my absolute favorite. Every other version is either too simplified to aid the modern reader or too different from the original Greek.
Thanks for this overview. My favorites of the examples on offer here are the ones by Richmond Lattimore and Robert Fagles. I own all three of the Fagles in Viking hardcover. I also have paperbacks of Robert Fitzgerald. I haven't read them yet but I'm heading into the second half of 2022 going deeper into literature and the classics.
This is a brilliant vid! You didn't mention E V Rieu's translation! I was raised on his translations both of the Odyssey and of the Iliad. As an 8 year old I remember sitting enthralled by his picturesque telling of the story and I imagined I could see everything so clearly! I remember being moved to tears when Argos died. That's why I got used to reading Homer in prose form not as a poem. I think I'd most like Lombardo's translation to be read out to me as it's so understandable, even if you don't have the written version in front of you.
My top 3: Robert Fagles, Alexander Pope, and Samuel Butlers. Reasoning: I liked Robert Fagles' translation for how direct and detailed it was. I enjoyed listening to Alexander Pope's translation because of how it flowed, its floweriness, and I found it easier to understand compared to Richmond Lattimore's translation. I found that out of all the prose version Samuel Butlers' translation was the best. It felt story like and it was quite gripping. However, I didn't like the visual layout of each page. I disliked how each page was made up of 2 columns. Which one will I buy? Realistically speaking I'll probably start off with either Robert Fagles or Samuel Butlers (leaning towards Robert Fagles). If I really like it I'll grab Alexander Pope's version. I'd like to start off with Alexander Pope's but I feel that I won't read it until I "feel" like reading poetry. I wrote some notes to so I'ma just add them to the comment cause why not 1 - no - 1951 Richmond Lattimore No, its difficult to understand. Archaic language. I am not smart enough to bother with this. 2 - 1990 Robert Fagles I like it more than the option 1 because it’s direct and detailed, but I feel that its not being told like its supposed to be. Easy to understand and clear. Honestly, I feel dumb for liking it. I can see why it's the most popular version. 3 - Alexander Pope 1713-1720 Hard to understand compared to 2 but easier to understand compared to 1. Really nice to listen to. 4 - George Chapman 1598-1616 Not bad. First verse was nice compared to 3. I’d say 3 was lightly nicer. I didn’t like second verse. Doesn’t flow as beautifully as 3. 5 - Christopher Logue 1959-2016 I don’t like its modernistic approach 6 - A. T. Murray 1919 Its closer to 2 in how direct and understandable it is. It also feels a bit more modern compared to both 2 and 3. More story like than 3 but less direct than 2. Sounds like someone is telling me a story. It’s a prose and not poetry. That’s why it felt so odd and different. I like it but not as much as 2 and 3. I will never learn greek but I can appreciate that it has the original alongside the prose for learning purposes. 7 - Stanley Lombardo 1997 & 200 Again very story like. Not poetic but detailed. Sometimes feels like a friend reciting a story more so than 6 and goes back and forth. More conversational. Tuber said its meant to be orally spoken. Makes sense. I understand why people may like this 8 - Samuel Butlers 1898 & 1900 Detailed and again feels more conversational and story like. I like it more than 7. Feels more like reading than someone speaking to you. I didn’t like the visual layout of the paragraphs. 2 columns ain't it. Probably the best prose version. 9 - Emily Wilson 2018 I didn’t like the first prose. But the second prose was nice. This like the last 3 translations had more names like Telemachus in the text. I assume they have more details.
I will pick whatever is on the bookstore shelf and go with it. It's exhausting to hear of all this work when there are so many books calling for my attention.
As a child who had difficulty reading I loved the translation of The Odyssey I read in school so much I "forgot" to turn it in. Unfortunately I lost it 20 years ago and don't know the translator. I have been looking for another but most of the translations I found where too modern or used Roman names which is just wrong. I think I will start with Lattimore. Thank you for giving me some ideas.
I have had EV rieu's translation for the past 5 years but i wasnt able to push 10 pages as i was feeling soo intimidated. I loved the richmond 1951 translation. I realised i loved the poetic verse, in archaic. I loved the wordsworth one too! Watching the video again Fagle's sound beautiful now.
My top 4 Odyssey's are 1. Edward McCrorie, my favorite overall 2. Richmond Lattimore, closest to the original and 3. Robert Fitzgerald, by far the most beautifully poetic and 4. Lombardo for the most striking and modern. For a prose translation I like the Murray (Dimock revised, 2nd edition (1995)) in the Loeb library. I would definitely stay away from the 1919 Murray original version which is much too archaic. I am a little surprised about the Butler recommendation with it's Romanized god names.
I stumbled onto this channel after listening to translations of the Odyssey on RUclips. I deeply appreciate the wide mindedness of letting us hear the translations before learning who created each. I wish Robert Fitzgerald had been among the choices, but I learned a lot here. And, listening to the presenters favorites reinforced how personal these choices can be. Samuel Butler! Not for me, but if it casts a spell on any good or interested reader, that’s wonderful.
So many choices! Some translations certainly sound very colourful and poetic - featuring long winded sentences and examples of syntax (word order) that are not normally seen in modern English. I do enjoy reading these ones as the language is so rich and has a historical feel but I think I would mainly appreciate such writing styles in short extracts. Like small doses. Reading the entire story like that would be too tiring for me. If I was to read The Odyssey from cover to cover, I would prefer a more contemporary version. And that would allow me to concentrate more on the story and appreciate that rather than the language itself. However in the case of The Odyssey, I think there is such a thing as a translation being too contemporary or too modern. Like something has been stripped away. It becomes soulless. Emily Wilson seems like a very intelligent and likeable person from an interview I saw of her and it's great that we now have a woman who has translated Homer's epic poem. I'm appreciating her translation more and more. Though at times, it did feel a bit too modern. There is even a line in there that reads: "...our modern times." And that just took me out of the picture - like I wasn't in ancient Greece anymore. What I would like in a translation is a kind of balance. A translation that is contemporary but still has a little bit of that poetic, colourful language. After all, we are reading Homer. I think E.V. Rieu has achieved that kind of balance (at least for me.) That was probably the translation that I read years ago when I was studying The Odyssey.
@@slobodanvasic6698 Butler's writing flows very well. It's very digestable and easy to read. The only thing is that I have a strong preference for the Greek names of the gods rather than the Roman names. I guess some people don't mind erither way.
![NOSFERATU - Official Trailer [HD] - Only In Theaters December 25](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nulvWqYUM8k/mqdefault.jpg)
Robert Fitzgerald provides a good balance of accuracy and poetry. It’s also very good to listen to on Audible.
The Dan Stevens narration is incredible :)
I really think Lattimore's translations do such a great job of capturing the similes. Very primordial and almost brutish
@@BenjaminMcEvoy Have you not heard the one by George Guidall? To me the combo of Fitzgerald and Guidall is superior by far to anything.
I feel as though Alexander popes translation could be very hard to read at times and it felt drawn out at times, that being said he did create rich imagery for the battle in the Iliad.
As a 17 years old kid from Burma, I can't thank you enough for these literature videos. I'm a STEM student but reading has always been my leisure. Thank you for introducing more books to me and all these analysis are top tier. I wish you good luck, man.
I'm so happy to hear that! It's amazing to hear you're in STEM, and I have always wanted to visit beautiful Burma :) I was nearby a few years ago, and really should have visited. Happy reading, my friend!
Why does it seems like it's talking about the thing that keeps happening every so often that destroys the inhabitants of earth that a sea captain is navigating then writing about then saying "yall come back now ya hear?"
Well met fellow voyager. I'm fifty years further on the journey but feel happiness and excitement with every new or rediscovery. No one with a good book to hand will ever be lonely or bored.
I read the E.V. Rieu version of the Iliad and Chapman's Odyssey. Got a lot out of both of them. Chapman can be dizzying at times, but there is also a beauty and humour in it that is distinct from many of the other translations.
The E. V. Rieu was my first :) It sounds like a lot of us formed an emotional attachment to it. I love the word "dizzying" to describe Chapman, and I completely agree with you that it has a beauty and humour distinct from the others!
I am currently reading Emily Wilson’s translation of The Odyssey. First time reading it but it is beautifully written/translated
Nice one :) I can't wait for her Iliad to come out later this year. She's fantastic!
So I just found your channel and love your content. I have always loved EV Rieu’s prose translation. I still have my copy from 8th grade, which is when I was first introduced to and fell in love with Homer. The story is that he translated it out loud for his wife and daughters while bombs were falling during WW2. I love that image…
nice , pls do more videos on best translations of classics
Thank you Ben! There were probably four of these translations that spoke to me, so i chose two of them. I really like how you've taught us to look for translations that work for us.
Thank you so much, Tena!! I really appreciate that :)
I loved the sound of the Fagles and Pope extracts. Audible also has a great translation by WHD Rouse, read by Anthony Heald, which I would gladly pay for every time I listen.
I really like Stephen Mitchell’s translations of Homer. Simple and incredibly easy to read. I don’t know the first thing about poetry, so I can’t comment on whether or not he uses some form throughout…I couldn’t tell. He focuses on the story & i really dug that. Even though while reading I couldn’t say whether or not I was reading poetry, his translation made me truly appreciate the old works so that now I am actually interested in seeing what the other translations are all about.
I'm a big fan of the Stephen Mitchell too. Gets you right into the story, as you say :)
"Sing to me, Muse, of that endlessly cunning man
who was blown off course to the ends of the earth, in the years
after he plundered Troy."
Emily Wilson's for me, no doubt. As a native spanish speaker, with no knowledge of greek and very intimidated of reading The Classics™, her work was a great introduction. It made it approachable, understandable and engaging. I'm hoping I can get a copy of her translation of The Iliad soon in the future.
Her translation was extremely soulless to be honest
May I ask why you would choose an English translation and not a Spanish translation?
@@benmclaren273 oh that's because I was taking a class on greek mythology in English. I figured it would be best to keep things straight by reading the text in the same language
If you ever decide to read Homer in Spanish, check out Luis Segalá’s translation. It’s accessible yet it still retains the stateliness of something written so long ago.
@@SK0LDR1 people seem to generally have the opposite opinion. I'm excited to read hers in the near future!
The Wilson version sounds like a BBC newsreader on prozac. Try the TE Lawrence translation instead. It’s written by a real adventurer and leader of men.
I had two favorites; Lombardo and Chapman. I know, it's a little odd to pick these two that are so different. Regarding Chapman, I really love the early modern English and literature of that period and because of this I easily responded to Chapman's approach. Regarding Lombardo, what attracted me was his sense of rhythm and pulse, that really pulled me in. Now that I think about it, both Chapman and Lombardo seem to pay attention to rhythm, though they use different rhythms, and that might be why I settled on these two. // Thanks for the video and overview of these translations.
Wilson's is such a triumph. It's absolutely beautiful, understandable, cheeky, and -most important- the translation is a poem, an iambic pentameter poem. Outstanding work.
Couldn't agree more! :) I'm reading her Iliad at the moment and it's absolutely breathtaking.
This was invaluable! Thank you so much! Having never read homer before and hardly any works of great literature, this was so helpful!
My favourite was lombardo, then buttler and then Wilson
Thank you! This was delightful and informative. I found your video as I was puzzling over aspects of the Fagles Odyssey which I've been reading aloud to my wife every evening before sleep. I now think what I've been experiencing are little injections of modern language into the more familiar Homeric rhythms. I realize that my only formal study of The Odyssey was at Trinity College, Hartford, using the Richmond Lattimore translation. I must be missing some of those consistent and repetitious passages. After listening to your readings, I'm inclined to give Emily Wilson a read. The Odyssey has always felt like the matrist half of Homer's full epic, with The Iliad providing the complementary patrist orientation. In any event, many thanks and best of luck with your teachings.
1. Wilson is a gifted versifier, perhaps the best of the modern Homer translators. Her iambics are a marvel--fitting the meter line after line while remaining clear and natural. 2. That said, I would only recommend he Odyssey to a pre-teen, or an adult beginner looking for a modern "take" rater than fidelity. I have read all of Homer in Greek, so I frequently compare translations to the original. Wilson deliberately a) mis-translates, b) omits or invents words, and c) translates the same word in different ways, all in the service of biasing the reader for or against a character. Some have said that this is always the case in translation. But of the 7 Odyssey translations I have read, hers is by far the most egregious in this regard. 4. I have not yet read her Iliad, but a first glance suggests that she has taken a much more honest approach to its translation. 5. For a good analysis of her Odyssey, find Whitaker's (or Whittaker?) review online.
rather. Sorry.
Richard Whitaker, University of Cape Town, "Homer's Odyssey Three Ways: Recent Translations by Verity, Wilson, and Green." Thanks for the pointer. The examples he gives of Wilson's distortions are pretty damning, imo.
While in graduate school I was doing a dissertation on Thucydides' History of the Pelopnessian War, and Thucydides himself contrasted his effort with Homer's epic narrative of the Trojan war in his Iliad, so as part of my research I was instructed by my advisor to read George Chapman's Elizabethan translation. Chapman was recommended because of the poetic vigor and magnificence of his poetic rendition and Chapman's absolute love of Homer. At first I struggled with the Elizabethan English, but eventually fell in love with it and, I. The process, understood why the Greeks loved Homer and his Iliad. Later a professor of ancient Greek opined that Chapman's effort comes the closest to the muscular poesy of Homer's epic, and I have always appreciated the guidance of my professors for introducing me to the wonders of Chapman's Iliad and it absolutley enriched my understanding and appreciation of Thucydides.
Thats awesome to know. It made me think that there's this poet who made poems about Chapman's translation of Homer (it was a big deal at the time). It was John Keats, who wrote "On first looking into Chapman's Homer". I only can't recall if his opinion of Chapman was favorable or not.
@@sarahtalone6251 You probably already know this by now, but just in case: It was indeed Keats, "On First Looking Into Chapman's Homer" -- and he was very complimentary in the poem. In fact, Chapman's translation blew his mind. It was life changing for him; he felt like an explorer seeing the Pacific Ocean for the first time.
Great video. One of my long 'projects' has been collecting different translations of The Iliad and The Odyssey. Favourite has always been Lattimore and Fagles, but I am liking Emily Wilson's Odyssey so far (not very far into it)
I just watched a video of Emily Wilson talking about how she went about translating the Odyssey and and it is really inspiring to see her thought process. It really adds to reading her version. Anyone who can speak more than one language knows how much unconcious bias ends up in translated works or how phrases are changed to fit the target language. It definitely is not an easy task!
Emily Wilson's Odyssey...fresh, unpretentious and lean...her introduction is brilliant!
I'm reading her Iliad at the moment, and it's an absolute masterpiece of translation :)
I share the same top three: Butler, Fagels, and Wilson, not in any particular order. I also read multiple versions at the same time just to compare them. I enjoy the prose style because I think the intention of the storyteller is for the listener to be able to follow it. Maybe the poetic versions are more popular with people more serious about Homer. It wasn't until I was in my fifties did I realize there were versions I could choose over others. The recommended versions were always the older ones. It's when I started listening to audiobooks in the different styles that I realized I have a strong preference for prose translations. Thank you for your video. Angie
I missed very much in this video the translation by Peter Green (2019), which is the most accurate in English IMHO:
The man, Muse - tell me about that resourceful man, who wandered
far and wide, when he'd sacked Troy's sacred citadel:
many men's townships he saw, and learned their ways of thinking,
[...]
He even copies the commas, the enjambment, etc. which helps you to read along the Greek version (if it were a bilingual edition).
My three favorites in order of preference: Fagles, Latimore, and Lombardo. I picked them based on being able to understand what's happening. But I definitely want to read Louge's version some day.
Thank you so much Ben for doing this video. You have helped me nail down the translation I will be using. All of your videos are so valuable. Can't say thanks enough!
The Divine Comedy please. Thank you
You never cease to amaze me with the breadth and scope of the literary topics you choose for your videos. Imagine! an extensive examination of the best known translators of Homer and samples of their translations! I found these comparisons to be both illuminating and extraordinarily interesting. My choice would be the Butler translation for an initial exposure and then perhaps a comparative read with one of the more formal translators such as Chapman.
Thank you very much :) I really appreciate that. I'm honestly so thrilled that there is such an amazing community of readers who love this kind of deep content and discussion. And very nice choice with the Butler translation. I think Chapman would definitely make a great comparative read!
Fagle is my favorite. The readability really helps the story move. It has a very good flow and it reads like an action adventure. Admittedly, there feels like less poetry but I think it’s one of the best translations particularly if you’re trying to get a young person interested. My second favorite is Chapman. I really enjoyed the old-fashioned feel of it. Also it makes me feel smart. Which is a ridiculous reason to like it. But oh well. 😊
I have trouble with Fagle over Lattimore's translation. To each their own but after u read Lattimore's translation I don't think I would read any other version.
Emily Wilson 100%. Made a good choice when i bought it as my first copy of the odyssey (and I will buy her new translation on the illiad soon as I'm done reading the one I got) but through your video I found Alexander Pope's translation and I kind of loved the excerpts, but maybe not as my first time reading the story.
Thanks for posting this video! I had planned to reread The Odyssey this summer as preparation for jumping back into Ulysses.
Allen Mendelbaum was the translator on my first reading of The Odyssey, but your inclusion of Emily Wilson has made me consider going through two versions, Wilson and Fagles or Mandelbaum. I am interested in emphasis put on the female characters.
Sounds like the perfect preparation for Ulysses :) Emily Wilson's is wonderful. I definitely couldn't recommend her Odyssey enough!
Thank you for this. Your Anna Karenina blind taste test set me on the path of success with that amazing novel. My twelve year-old and I just did this Homer blind taste test with you during our breakfast. We liked Fagles, Butler, and Wilson, though I was personally most excited by the Lambardo. Ultimately, we have the Fagles in our home and will be going forward with it, but now with more confidence as it ranked well for both of us!
Thank you! I thoroughly enjoyed putting together the AK taste test, so I'm thrilled to hear that :) And I feel blessed that you would both share your breakfast with me! Fagles, Butler, Wilson, and Lombardo - very nice list. My favourites too :)
Your channel is fantastic! I'm so glad I stumbled across it. You're an excellent teacher. Your videos are helping me get more out of reading literature than I every anticipated. Thank you!
I just received my Great Books of the Western World this week. Hail, Adler! I listened to your translations and I rated Samuel Butler a 5 out of 5. I’m thrilled to find out this is the translation I have. I’m very curious about Emily Wilson’s translation and will get that too for a side by side read. Thank you so much for this exercise.
Congratulations on becoming a proud owner of the set :) And how wonderful that the Butler ended up being your favourite! I love cracking open that "volume four" of an evening and dipping into both epics :)
Patricia I too have the Great Books collection, but somehow I have a different edition that has the Lattimore translation of Homer. I've ordered a used copy of the Samuel Butler, too, just that book, to remind me of my first reading of The Iliad that I loved so much in that translation particularly
Scott, you are correct about the Great Books translation, my mistake. The reason for it is that I own “The Five Foot Shelf” or The Harvard Classics. My books are a first printing 1909/10. I had been looking at those and mixed up the translation. I’m reading Emily Watson’s copy now. This is due to Professor Benjamin’s: Find the translation that gets you into the story…. Wise. Reading Homer now is like butter. I’m loving it.
@@patriciam1550 the Harvard classic bookcase was interesting too. I think the great books did use the butler in their earlier editions - the first copy I saw was in the library and it was that deep tan color with butler. My newer editions (1980s) are black & had lattimore.
Not sure what all the fuss is with her translation. In my opinion it falls deeply short in comparison to Richmond Lattimore’s translation.
Sorry, I'm commenting on the Iliad because I don't think you have a video about Iliad translations! I just got the Fagels and I'm in book 9. My only previous experience is with the Lattimore.
Fagles is so much easier to read and understand! It's very exciting. Just having titles for the chapters and spaces between some of the long blocks of text is helpful in itself.
It just bugs me every once in a while with phrases where Fagles seems to consciously choose the lamer word to avoid using a famous word that Lattimore used. Specifically, in the repeated line about people dying with their armor falling loudly on them, Fagles would rather poke out is eyes with burning sticks than use Lattimore's "clattered," choosing instead to use a variety of less appropriate words like "rang" or "clanged." It's a very minor point...but I'm just stuck on "clattered."
I can see also that Lattimore probably got closer to the rhythm of the Greek lines.
I loved the sound of the Samuel Butler excerpts in this video, but wish he hadn't used the Latin names like Jove. I don't know why those rub me the wrong way so much. The names themselves just sound...weaker...than the Greek names.
If you do a translation video for the Iliad I'm curious what you think of Pope's translation. I saw a comment saying that his translation of the Iliad is much better than his Odyssey. Bernard Knox even said it's "the finest ever made..."
My favourite of the bunch you presented was the Fagle but I also liked the Lombardo and the Butler. I have read the E.V. Rieu translation and listened to W. H. D. Rouse, both of which I enjoyed immensely. I had no idea there were so many translations available. I would love more videos like this. It was interesting and very helpful.
The E. V. Rieu was my first :) I'll have to source out a copy of the W. H. D. Rouse! And we can definitely do more of these videos - they're some of my favourites to do. Sitting down with a stack of books and comparing translations is good fun :)
Thanks for this! Exactly the sort of comparison video I was looking for on this. I think Fagle and Wilson were my favorites from the taste test. Which is interesting because Fagle seems to be one of the big favorites while Wilson gets a more mixed reception from my research.
Ben, Thank you so much for these awesome videos. You inspired me to start In Search of Lost time. I'm now on volume 3. I have watched most of your videos. Got a copy of miss Wilson's translation of Odyssey.
I finds it very accessible. However, I do have a question. If someone were to ask me, why should we read Dostoyevsky or Proust, I can now confidently answer. However, I can't say the same for Odyssey. I feel it is a simple adventure tale (I know I'm wrong). Do you have a video on why Odyssey is relevant or why we should read Homer? If you could suggest some pointers, that would be awesome.
Why should we read Dostoevsky? Why should we read Proust?
Hey Benjamin. I want to share my experience with Homer, I did not listen to all the readings. I am 57, I did not read Homer as a child, but when I was about 22. College age. I read two translations (both epics) around that time: E.V. Rieu (prose Benjamin), and Lattimore's. Lattimore is better known for his translation of - The Iliad. I did a paper using Latt's Il. I read his Oresteia as well. I had a professor suggest that one should read Lattimore's Iliad and Fitzgerald's Odyssey. I read some of WHD Rouse's Iliad. This seemed to be one of those works with the British - "pip-pip" stuff. Moreover, I should have read more translations. I would like to try the classic translations: Chapman, Pope. I would like to try a 19th century tr - Lang, Leaf and Myers!! TY Benjamin. Excellent discussions you are releasing. I like your plugging prose translations, and that of Butler's TE Lawrence translated the Odyssey into prose. TY again Benjamin...!!!!
While I truly appreciate the Fagles translation, Robert Fitzgerald’s translation is my go-to for Homer. I absolutely love his interpretation. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
Peter Green’s translation is wonderful.
I like the Latimore bc it gives a feel (I think) of the original. he's exceptionall;y strong not only on meter, but on similes, and nobody does Homeric metaphors better. not the easiest, but in my mind, matches more of what I felt like for the Iliad and Odyssey felt like to be heard.
the big deal here is that you can hear the poet's artifice, the standard gerunds, to make a line come out correctly. I feel closer to Homor with Lattimore than others.
Peter Green's translation of both The Iliad and The Odyssey were phenomenal. Loved those. Very very sad he didn't have a translation of The Aeneid. RIP Peter Green
Robert Fagles translation is the best for me, I picked it up at my high school library, not for an assignment but just to read it. I read in my junior year of high school, and within 10 pages, I was hooked, I read it like I was addicted to it. Reading 📚 is a drug 😅
Thank you so much for all the videos you make! I personally like Fagles version and Lombardo version the most. Keep reading yayyyy
Can i apply all this to the iliad? it seems they are the same translators and would translate the iliad similarly to their Odyssey, or is that the wrong assumption?.
It's a very fair assumption! If you like a translator's Odyssey, you'll most likely like their Iliad too :)
I'm not a fan of reading verse and find it a struggle. I'm currently reading The Iliad and the E.V. Rieu prose translation. Highly recommended and the text flows brilliantly!
@@ryokan9120 Yes. I'm looking for a good prose translation of The Divine Comedy, in the same spirit as Rieu's Homer translations...
I scored the translations on two categories: clarity (5 points) and Beauty (5 points). The translation that scored highest:
1. A. T. Murray, 1919: 9 / 10
2. Richmond Latimore, 1951: 8.5 / 10
All the other translations scored between 5 and 7, so I won't hesitate too much :)
Muse, tell me of the man of many wiles,
the man who wandered many paths of exile
after he sacked Troy's sacred citadel.
He saw the cities - mapped the minds - of many;
and on the sea, his spirit suffered every
adversity - to keep his life intact,
to bring his comrades back. In the last task,
his will was firm and fast, and yet he failed:
he could not save his comrades. Fools, they foiled
themselves: they ate the oxen of the Sun,
the herd of Helios Hyperion;
the lord of light requited their transgression-
he took away the day of their return.
Muse, tell us of these matters. Daughter of Zeus,
my starting point is any point you choose.
The sun had left the splendid sea: it climbed
into the bronze of heaven, bringing light
to the immortals and to those who die
on earth, the giver of the gift of grain.
The Ithacans had reached the coast of Pylos,
the sturdy fortress-city built by Neleus.
Along the shore, the men of Pylos stood,
offering sacrifices - jet black bulls -
to please the dark-haired god who shakes the land:
Poseidon, lord of quakes and shifting sands.
Nine sectors had been traced along the beach;
five hundred men had been assigned to each,
and every sector sacrificed nine bulls.
Now, after tasting of the inner parts,
the men of Pylos, with their feast in course,
were offering burnt thighbones to the god,
when, heading straight for shore, the visitors
hauled in and furled the sail of their lithe ship.
They moored. They disembarked. Athena stepped
onto the shore; Telemachus came next.
This translation is Allen Mandelbaum, 1990. Unlike Pope's metronomic plodding, this poetry sings. The alliterations flow with the rhythms and the rhymes both surprise and delight.
I hear an affinity between Mandelbaum's work and Kimon Friar's beautiful translation of Nikos Kazantzaki's The Odyssey: A Modern Sequel. Open either translation to any page and let yourself be transported to a mythical world suffused by poetic beauty.
I just found your channel yesterday, and I am loving what you’re doing. I’ve been trying to read more classics, and just finished this spring reading through Fagle’s Iliad. I loved it so much, and I find your comment near the end of the video to be true. That translation of the Iliad made me want to read more Homer via Fagles. So I picked up his translations of the Odyssey, the Aeneid, and the three Theban plays. Keep up the great work.
Thank you so much, Jonathan :) I really appreciate that! And I'm so thrilled to hear you loved Fagle's Iliad. It's incredibly exciting that you're moving through the classics with such strength and love!
While you were reading the Samuel Butler excerpt, I was unsettled by the word "Neptune," which is what the Romans called Poseidon; and I thought to myself: Greeks would never employ that Latinized name-how strange! So I grabbed my own copy of the Butler translation, and sure enough, my version of that translation refers to the god as Poseidon! This heartened me! I therefore concluded that there must be more than one edition of Butler's translation.
Thank you for comparing and contrasting these varied translations. I think for the time being I shall stick to Mr. Butler's rendering.
I prefer Fagles and Lattimore over Rouse, Pope, etc. The translations by Wilson and Mitchell are on my TBR list. I just have to decide which one to read first.
First Cormac now Homer. It's like you speak my language.
Thanks for this video. I've been meaning to read this work for a long while so this should help a lot. I always enjoy the way that you sell the great works and make them sound exciting to read, which often they do turn out to be. Maybe you could do another video like this for the Divine Comedy?
Thank you, John :) I appreciate that! I’m actually working on some Dante content at the moment. It certainly seems like Dante would be a super popular one, so we can definitely discuss La divina commedia!
@@BenjaminMcEvoy Excellent! I look forward to seeing that then.
The Odyssey is one of my absolute favourite books and I have several translations. I must admit that I enjoy parts of A T Murray’s very much, ‘So saying he plunged beneath the surging sea but I went to my ships with my godlike comrades, and many things did my heart darkly ponder as I went’. My heart ached for Menelaus when I read this passage, it is so relatable. Thanks for this wonderful analysis.
Thank you for sharing that, Julie. Your love of Homer's Odyssey comes through so strong. It's one of my personal favourite works of literature too. I frequently pick it up aiming to enjoy my favourite episodes for a moment, and then it takes hold of me and the time, and pages, simply fly by!
Towering above all my readings of Homer is Pope's Iliad, a breathless thrill to read out loud, a great poet at the peak of his powers, for me impossible to put down. But not Pope's Odyssey, a 2nd rate phoned-in effort by comparison -- his heart wasn't in it. Of the Odyssey translations on offer here, I'd pick Fagles, Emily Wilson and Lombardo, although not always in that order, and I'd lump Robert Fitzgerald into that company. I like Murray's Loeb too, a lot, but wonder why Loeb doesn't have a dead-on literal interlinear crib. What would you recommend as a scholarly companion to reading Homer -- best notes and essays and all that jazz? For now I just use the Oxford Classical Dictionary. Thanks, this was my first of your vids.
I highly recommend Robert Fitzgerald’s translation to anyone out there. Both his Iliad and Odyssey are highly engaging and worth reading.
Loved this video. My A tranlations were Fagles, Lombardo and the new Emily Wilson. AT Murray sound interesting too and I agree War Music is amazing.
Thank you so much for this. I always straggle with deciding which translation to choose. Now I know. And not just one :-).
Although I'm Spanish my first reading of anything Homer was the Emily Wilson poetic translation. Her skill to make it sound modern blew me away. Thanks to Wilson I understood Homer is meant to be read aloud AT people. I got into it much more deeply when I was able to convince a flatmate to sit though some pages, ha. I was even tempted to go to the speakers' corner and just get on with it, but never did dare.
Oh and that's great news about the Illiad!
Christopher Logue's work sounds so cool.
Here is the ranking I ended with:
1) Lombardo (1997)
2) Fagles (1990)
3) Murray (1919)
4) Lattimore (1951)
5) Wilson (2018)
6) Chapman (1598-1616)
7) Pope (1713-20)
8) Buttler (1898)
I personally own and have read Wilson's and Fagles' translations many times and highly recommend both, but I'm more than willing to give Lombardo a try! It got me hooked from the first line in the excerpt! I'd also like to pick up Murray's to start learning Ancient Greek. I suspect it will be invaluable in that endeavor.
Hey! So, as we're already talking about translations here, I would like to ask if you have a preferred War and Peace translation (into English)? Or do you suppose there's one out there that could be better than the others?
Thanks for the video! I'd like to add something, but I haven't yet read the whole Illiad, I've begun reading a translation done by a Harvard professor of the subject (Ancient Greek Literature/Classics, can't remember exactly), which is well explained and easy to follow for a total beginner, but the only physical copy I own is in Portuguese. Still have a long way until I get to the Odissey :)
Pevear and Volokhonsky do a terrific job with their War and Peace :) I also have the Maude and Constance Garnett translations, but I'd personally give it to P&V. Sounds like a great translation, Sarah, I'd love to check that one out myself!
@@BenjaminMcEvoy I've been hearing mixed things about P&V translation, that their work is "too literal" and even that it isn't very authentic (as if too many translations have been mixed in their work). On the contrary, Maude's version would be the more " stylistically" accurate, also is the one that got approved by Tolstoy himself. These aspects have really been conflicting to me, so I am on the look out for detailed opinions. I take yours gladly and will consider the P&V version more favorably.
@@sarahtalone6251 Instead of the Maude, I suggest looking into the Mendelker-revised Maude translation, which preserves the French dialogue (translating it in footnotes), and touches up Russian subtleties.
Great vid! Love it! Although what did poor Fitzgerald do wrong : ( Haha just wish was included. Although his Iliad is better, and with Odyssey easier/sweeping and less dense is probably more appropriate, i.e. Fagles or Lombardo. An obscure and quite intriguing translation of Odyssey I randomly came across in a tiny used bookshop was by Ennis Rees - 1960
Getting back into the classics after a couple of years studying for an engineering degree but I had the pleasure of experiencing Emily Wilson read sections of her Iliad last week!
That's amazing to hear! I'm loving her Iliad right now :) I think she did a phenomenal job with it!
If this helps my fellow homeschooling families, we begin diving into The Iliad with Rosemary Sutcliff's "Black Ships Before Troy" (an Iliad re-telling), followed by Sutcliff's “The Wanderings of Odysseus”. We read them slowly, 2 to 3 chapters a week with an oral narration from my children after each reading. We've even sketched a sort of "family tree" on our bookmark to get the names and sides straight as we read. It gives a wonderful groundwork to enjoy the actual classic Homer books afterwards. Thank you, Benjamin - I just love you and your videos.
That is so cool! Thank you so much for sharing that :) Sounds like a beautifully planned syllabus. And thank you for your kind words! Happy Homering :)
Amazing video. Thank you so much for encouraging me to do my own thinking and decision making, rather than just telling me what you think. I ranked out of 5. Stanley Lombardo, whom I had not heard of before, earned a 5 out of 5. I love the way the text looks on the page. I love the wording and the simplicity. It's easy to understand and it's not too wordy. Secondly, I gave Robert Fagles a 4.5. Fagles translation was very exciting because it pulls you into the story. Then, T. Murray, and Samuel Butler both a 4 out of 5, even though they're very different. I like Murray because he's the most literal translation which is useful to have access to and the Loeb books coming with the Greek on the opposite page is wonderful for students. I gave Lattimore and Wilson a 3 out of 5. I gave Logue and Chapman a 2 out of 5. I have my lowest score to Alexander Pope. 1 out of 5, because I completely lost interest in the story when that translation was being read to me. Now I need to decide if I should buy the Lombardo or the Fagles.
I just realised that the Emily Wilson translation is what I have been listening to on Audible. It's narrated by Claire Danes. I like it a lot. It's really easy, and even soothing to listen to. My favourite thing about it is how she translates certain repeated phrases slightly differently in each book. For example, in one place she writes, "when Dawn came, born early, her fingertips like petals..." and in another place she translates it, "soon Dawn appeared and touched the sky with roses."
So finally, Emili Wilson is more than 3 out 5?
@@slobodanvasic6698 Yes, I think a 4 out of 5. :) I do quite like her translations. Which translation do you like?
@@osheas i think the most poetic is Chapman, but difficult to read. Now I read Iliad by Rieu, it is prose and good for understanding the story, especially for non native speaker, and I read few pages than compare to Chapman. For Odyssey I think I will read Lattimor or Albert Cook, they followed Homer line by line. I would like to read modern translation but in rhythm of Chapman, but I don't know if that translation even exist :)
I really like the Fitzgerald , which I read many years ago. THe Latimore, I read in high school. Fagels is my favorite more recent translation.
wow you started off strong, my favourite was the first translation!
I first read Homer as child in a very lightly adapted version for the TV series Wishbone when I was like 9. Fell in love with the story, we went on to read it in school multiple excruciating times but I still love the book, it's the foundation for so much
Alexander Pope forever !
What a great idea for a video. For me, it's a toss up between Robert Fagel, Stanley Lombardo and Samuel Butler (in no particular oder.) I did read The Odyssey over 20 years ago but unfortunately, I can't remember the name of the translator for that particular version. I did enjoy it though - it is a classic story full of adventure and wonder. Out of curiosity, do a lot of these versions include the classic epiphets such as "...the wine dark sea" and "...the rosy fingered dawn?" I will definitely have to obtain a translation that includes those particular epiphets.
thank you so much for this video! you really put in a lot of work into making this and i think people will be visiting this as a resource for years to come.
personally i really wanted a prose version so i'll be going with murray or butler, but i'd love to also read wilsons and lombardo at some point. thanks again!
Funnily enough, I just purchased (and received) the Emily Wilson translation today! Now, I'm even more excited to read it, and I may have purchase her translation of The Iliad next
That's awesome! I can definitely recommend her translation of The Iliad, which I read and loved recently :) It's a translation masterpiece!
What a wonderful experiment! thanks
Had not heard of War Music before, but the reference to the speed of light in the passage you read intrigued me. An intentional anachronism. Now I’ve found that Audible has it vibrantly performed by Logue himself. Another astounding anachronism in the sample they provide: Ajax “tan as Rommel after Alamein.”
An opportunity to hear an epic from the mouth of its composer, as if an iteration of the story from one of the bards working in the Homeric perfomative tradition!
Latimore was mine. I was transported by him as a young reader. A+. Fagles; a solid B. Pope: A solid C+. Speaks to its time... but not mine. Chapmen: Good. A healthy B. Logue: I love it. A solid A. Murray" Easy and pleasant. A solid B. Lombardo: B- It seemed too earnest... I could be wrong. Shit. I gotta go. I'll be back. Love the channel.
Thank you for an excellent lecture on Odyssey's English translations. I was happy to learn that my favorites are exactly like yours - Samuel Butler, Emily Wilson and Robert Fagles. Stanley Lombardo and Christopher Logue interested me as well. I shall read both. It was a truly revelatory journey!
What can you advise on the simplest to understand ,with the odyssey?
Wonderful (if long, sounds like someone we know) video. To sit and enjoy in a coffee shop or at the beach? Wilson and Fagles. I want a balance of modern, easy to read language that hints at the twisting complexity of the original. The Latimore is fine. Not a fan of the older poets. And of course the Loeb is a special, if not the most readable, translation.
Champan's Odyssey is exquisite. There's something noble and likewise rough and unhewn about Elizabethan poetry, which may easily describe Homer's style as well.
I could go on, but I'll only say that unlike Pope, even though both him and Chapman translated the Odyssey in herioc couplets, there's something weightier about Chapman. Pope feels too light and polished.
Though it's obvious he took liberty in his translation, I somehow find Chapman to be faithful to Homer.
Robert Fagles sent my reading Homer into hyper drive. You can hear it, touch it, see it, taste it, and feel it.
Hmm. Christopher Logue lived during a time when we knew light had speed. I wonder if it did during Homer's time. I was reading an Odessey translation that talked about "the purple sea." That was it for me. How could anyone destroy Homer's beautiful metaphor of "the wine dark sea?" I like Chapman. Isnt there a poem about on first looking into Chapman's Homer? I will Google it. I do have a Pope Pdf Iliad, but was disappointed. I think I like maybe Butler better. There is a translator named Butler? I stood in the corner through Catholic school, and through graduate school.
Well English isn''t my first language so n°5 - by Christopher Logue's and Lombardo's are the easiest, despite the fact I've mixed feelings about them.
However after listening the pieces a couple of times, I can't decide between Samuel Butler's and Emily Wilson''s translations.
I liked both very much.
I'd probably challenge myself a little bit and go for Emily's.
The penguin clothbound classics version is written in pragraph form, not poem form. Does this take away from the intended feeling of the work?
I settled on Fagels. He's readable and easier to understand. I discovered that the Fagel translation is on RUclips so I can listen if I like. ruclips.net/video/mfhUBdwKmOI/видео.html . Hope this helps someone.
Emily Wilson and George Chapman
Great choices :)
17:30 says Poseidon.
33:45 says Neptune.
Which is it? Does the original Greek not specify by a proper noun, so scholars guess?
I just want the translation that is textually faithful prose. Poetic style is a bonus, but I don’t want to sacrifice faithfulness to the original text.
Surprised not to see Fitzgerald translation. That is the one we have in the book room at school, but we are purchasing some Fagles to replace them.
Totally agree Homer's plays in prose are beautiful!!! Butler's version is my favorite, even though the translation of W.H.D Rouse is a good prose translation as well.
W.H.D Rouse is great :) I'm glad to hear you like on of my favourites too, Oscar!
OMG! I have been wanting to find something just like this for a while. I want to read the Iliad (and maybe eventually the Odyssey) but all the choices (editions and translations) have just been too daunting. I graded them (American style) as you suggested, in order: B, B+, F, F, C+, A-, A, A, A+ So, technically Emily Wilson won, however, if I'm going to read Homer, I want to read the real Homer, not some feminist version of it -- at least not at first. My initial thoughts would have been to just automatically dismiss the older versions and stick with the more recent translations, so it's very interesting to see how great the Butler one is.
I have read the Fagles and it is clear and easy to read, so enjoyed it but the rhythm doesn't do it for me. I have and like the Pope, but the 60s Penguin translated by E V Rieu was my first love and I still compare all others to it. I need to explore the Chapman version.
The E. V. Rieu was my very first translation :) I'm going to hunt out my battered old copy now. And it's great to hear you're a fan of the Pope - he's been getting some love today!
@@BenjaminMcEvoy mine too, but I suspect several decades earlier, as I am 75. Penguin Classics were a boon to me growing up.
I find Richmond Lattimore's translation to be my absolute favorite. Every other version is either too simplified to aid the modern reader or too different from the original Greek.
Thanks for this overview. My favorites of the examples on offer here are the ones by Richmond Lattimore and Robert Fagles. I own all three of the Fagles in Viking hardcover. I also have paperbacks of Robert Fitzgerald. I haven't read them yet but I'm heading into the second half of 2022 going deeper into literature and the classics.
Hi Ben, i can only get my hands on EV Rieu here in Pakistan. Any good? Love your videos my brother. Truly inspiring.
EV Rieu is a good one :) The very first one I read. And lots of commenters here say they love it! And thank you for the kind words, my friend :)
@@BenjaminMcEvoy Cheers Ben. I watch all of them mate. You've reignited my passion for reading. Topman! :)
This is a brilliant vid! You didn't mention E V Rieu's translation! I was raised on his translations both of the Odyssey and of the Iliad. As an 8 year old I remember sitting enthralled by his picturesque telling of the story and I imagined I could see everything so clearly! I remember being moved to tears when Argos died. That's why I got used to reading Homer in prose form not as a poem. I think I'd most like Lombardo's translation to be read out to me as it's so understandable, even if you don't have the written version in front of you.
My top 3: Robert Fagles, Alexander Pope, and Samuel Butlers.
Reasoning: I liked Robert Fagles' translation for how direct and detailed it was. I enjoyed listening to Alexander Pope's translation because of how it flowed, its floweriness, and I found it easier to understand compared to Richmond Lattimore's translation. I found that out of all the prose version Samuel Butlers' translation was the best. It felt story like and it was quite gripping. However, I didn't like the visual layout of each page. I disliked how each page was made up of 2 columns.
Which one will I buy? Realistically speaking I'll probably start off with either Robert Fagles or Samuel Butlers (leaning towards Robert Fagles). If I really like it I'll grab Alexander Pope's version. I'd like to start off with Alexander Pope's but I feel that I won't read it until I "feel" like reading poetry.
I wrote some notes to so I'ma just add them to the comment cause why not
1 - no - 1951 Richmond Lattimore
No, its difficult to understand. Archaic language. I am not smart enough to bother with this.
2 - 1990 Robert Fagles
I like it more than the option 1 because it’s direct and detailed, but I feel that its not being told like its supposed to be. Easy to understand and clear. Honestly, I feel dumb for liking it. I can see why it's the most popular version.
3 - Alexander Pope 1713-1720
Hard to understand compared to 2 but easier to understand compared to 1. Really nice to listen to.
4 - George Chapman 1598-1616
Not bad. First verse was nice compared to 3. I’d say 3 was lightly nicer. I didn’t like second verse. Doesn’t flow as beautifully as 3.
5 - Christopher Logue 1959-2016
I don’t like its modernistic approach
6 - A. T. Murray 1919
Its closer to 2 in how direct and understandable it is. It also feels a bit more modern compared to both 2 and 3. More story like than 3 but less direct than 2. Sounds like someone is telling me a story. It’s a prose and not poetry. That’s why it felt so odd and different. I like it but not as much as 2 and 3. I will never learn greek but I can appreciate that it has the original alongside the prose for learning purposes.
7 - Stanley Lombardo 1997 & 200
Again very story like. Not poetic but detailed. Sometimes feels like a friend reciting a story more so than 6 and goes back and forth. More conversational. Tuber said its meant to be orally spoken. Makes sense. I understand why people may like this
8 - Samuel Butlers 1898 & 1900
Detailed and again feels more conversational and story like. I like it more than 7. Feels more like reading than someone speaking to you. I didn’t like the visual layout of the paragraphs. 2 columns ain't it. Probably the best prose version.
9 - Emily Wilson 2018
I didn’t like the first prose. But the second prose was nice. This like the last 3 translations had more names like Telemachus in the text. I assume they have more details.
I will pick whatever is on the bookstore shelf and go with it. It's exhausting to hear of all this work when there are so many books calling for my attention.
As a child who had difficulty reading I loved the translation of The Odyssey I read in school so much I "forgot" to turn it in. Unfortunately I lost it 20 years ago and don't know the translator. I have been looking for another but most of the translations I found where too modern or used Roman names which is just wrong. I think I will start with Lattimore. Thank you for giving me some ideas.
I have had EV rieu's translation for the past 5 years but i wasnt able to push 10 pages as i was feeling soo intimidated. I loved the richmond 1951 translation. I realised i loved the poetic verse, in archaic. I loved the wordsworth one too! Watching the video again Fagle's sound beautiful now.
My top 4 Odyssey's are 1. Edward McCrorie, my favorite overall 2. Richmond Lattimore, closest to the original and 3. Robert Fitzgerald, by far the most beautifully poetic and 4. Lombardo for the most striking and modern. For a prose translation I like the Murray (Dimock revised, 2nd edition (1995)) in the Loeb library. I would definitely stay away from the 1919 Murray original version which is much too archaic. I am a little surprised about the Butler recommendation with it's Romanized god names.
I wrote my comments before yours so I'm glad you sort of agree with me!!!
I stumbled onto this channel after listening to translations of the Odyssey on RUclips. I deeply appreciate the wide mindedness of letting us hear the translations before learning who created each. I wish Robert Fitzgerald had been among the choices, but I learned a lot here. And, listening to the presenters favorites reinforced how personal these choices can be. Samuel Butler! Not for me, but if it casts a spell on any good or interested reader, that’s wonderful.
So many choices! Some translations certainly sound very colourful and poetic - featuring long winded sentences and examples of syntax (word order) that are not normally seen in modern English. I do enjoy reading these ones as the language is so rich and has a historical feel but I think I would mainly appreciate such writing styles in short extracts. Like small doses. Reading the entire story like that would be too tiring for me. If I was to read The Odyssey from cover to cover, I would prefer a more contemporary version. And that would allow me to concentrate more on the story and appreciate that rather than the language itself. However in the case of The Odyssey, I think there is such a thing as a translation being too contemporary or too modern. Like something has been stripped away. It becomes soulless. Emily Wilson seems like a very intelligent and likeable person from an interview I saw of her and it's great that we now have a woman who has translated Homer's epic poem. I'm appreciating her translation more and more. Though at times, it did feel a bit too modern. There is even a line in there that reads: "...our modern times." And that just took me out of the picture - like I wasn't in ancient Greece anymore.
What I would like in a translation is a kind of balance. A translation that is contemporary but still has a little bit of that poetic, colourful language. After all, we are reading Homer. I think E.V. Rieu has achieved that kind of balance (at least for me.) That was probably the translation that I read years ago when I was studying The Odyssey.
I agree that Rieu is good for following the story. At the same time Butler for me has clear language too, and there is some soft flow, indeed.
@@slobodanvasic6698 Butler's writing flows very well. It's very digestable and easy to read. The only thing is that I have a strong preference for the Greek names of the gods rather than the Roman names. I guess some people don't mind erither way.
@@anzaeria I also like Greek gods names