EVE Fanfest 2015: The Art of War in New Eden
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- Presenter:
Spanky Ikkala
This seminar looks at the theory and doctrine behind modern global warfare and encourages participants to question how much of it is appropriate to wars in EVE Online. We discuss strategy and analyse the thinking of two key figures (Clausewitz and Sun Tzu) and apply their lessons to EVE Online in order to identify how we can look deeper into EVE warfare than merely the tactical levels of killing ships and pods. - Spanky Ikkala, EVE University
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Great presentation and insight about how to apply Sun Tsu and Clausewitz on Eve. Recommended to everyone who cares about war strategy in Eve !!
Absolutely the best from 2015! Great job, Sir and Thank You for your service.
8:22 I'm that Caldari brethren entering the panel!
Very entertaining and interesting, thank you.
I gotta say, the comparison between sun tzu and Clausewitz ideas of politics in war isn't all that contradictory, Clausewitz said that war is a political tool, sun tzu said, once war starts, politics steps back so the soldier can fight.
but once that war is over, politics comes back, and gets what it wanted.
so putting those together, Politician decides. to war it is, tells the army, Go. conquer our enemy, then steps back, army wins the war, comes back, politics takes from the enemy what they wanted.
War itself is from politics, but fought by the army.
it fits rather well together in my head :)
TheBlueEyedGamer Wingnut The way I heard and learned. War is merely another card played in diplomatic negotiation from different parties to obtain what they want or need. Whether it is resources, ideals, or even a way of life. As such war would only end when the needs are met, or when the cost of waging the war, cost more than the gain from the war.
I like that, also sorta goes with what i said (to me atleast)
TheBlueEyedGamer Wingnut This is definetly not how things work in modern wars, not sure whether this is good or not. Definetly bad from a military short term strategic level, but from a winning hearts and minds achieving lasting peace level may be it's better.
modern wars, as he said, have impossible goals. "Beat terrorism? how?"
Modern wars are political to the extreme IMO, its less about winning the fight to achieve your aims, and more winning the fight to look good to your public.
That being said, i personally think another fullscale war will come sooner or later, How and why. well. that'll be political, and nothing i care to guess about.
TheBlueEyedGamer Wingnut Disagree, nuclear weapons have all but put an end to the possibility of another full scale war. Until an effective defence to nukes is developed, other than your own nukes, then there will be no fullscale wars
This guy is a total class-act.
And heres me.. in a gaming organisation called TAW (the art of warfare)
This is awesome :D
this guy is fantastic hahaha
I learn new Things about EVE every day.
EVE have an ingame suiside help channel.
Ronni Olesen Always broadcast for reps.
the company should create a chat for people to request their life back lol
You don't dock up when a crow enters the system because you can't kill the crow, but because you don't know if you can kill the crow quickly enough to avoid the inevitable gank squad that's waiting on the other side of the gate.
Way to go Spanky!
The reason there's no PL is because we were all getting wasted in a pub watching the stream on an iPad :)
Good talk!
the art of war: play station games errywhere
yeah, but that's fkn BORING... unless you have entertaining corps mates
trust me, i was with Eve uni... we have hisec wardecs constantly, mostly by Pursuit of Happiness, who love to play station games wit shiny fits.
actually... PoH i respect, mostly, but i feel likt there's too much seal-clubbing for the sake of padding killboards
@@joek0617 dude, how many people have deleted their comments here?
@@seand.g423 I think he was having a conversation with himself 😝
I was there, it was real.
OldSmeller It was here, I was real.
o7 Spanky
Mongolians actually succeeded in Afghanistan. Offensive Scorched Earth approach.
2 Factors will destroy your opponent. Disrupt their leadership (From Within) and destroy supplies Chains.. Mindless Ganking does not destroy your opponent or get them to a unconditional surrender.
Best keynote ever
my guy is hilarious. good speech
I'm at minute 7:09 and a fanboy yet. Hope you didn't screw that up in the end.
If you know how to defeat POH... why in hell you have never did it? Or your plan is to do something only after they kill 100 Bil of your ships how many times?
correct me if im wrong because i don't play eve, but why blobbing? is it just because nobody knows how to fight so they take a brute force approach? or is it this influenced by other factors?
If you do exercises and establish a command and communication structure you could quite easily coordinate a much more organized and effective force. For instance, (assuming weapon range isn't a huge limiting factor) you could have a windowed 3d grid arranged so that the strongest ships are closest to the enemy and weaker ships are protected, but still able to fire. If the target(s) shift you'd have to communicate the change into a slight alteration to the formation.
After establishing this, you can build of this base to enable very complex maneuvers and targeting to more efficiently disable your enemy. For instance flanking, which in space would probably be most effective from underneath. so a large force would engage at at the front and then the flanking force would, from the rear of the large force, travel down until out of the opposing force's possible view and then appoach at the opposing forces bottom.
Being a 5 year player of eve, I'll answer some of this. Blobbing is a minimal, basic tactic. If focuses a high degree of focused power while simplistic for all pilots to perform with no coordination. Basically either what you do as a new person with no fleet combat experience, or if you just outnumber your opponent so massively (ie. Sun Tzu's 5:1 ratio) coordination is a waste of time.
Most combat in Eve is primarily range vs angular movement based (and RPG die roll determined for damage, no actual physics), so if your example, as long as the enemy ships have plain range to hit the weaker ships, the larger ones can't stop it (though probably chew the enemy ships). Positional tactics in space isn't about having ships in front, to the side, or behind, but rather ranges (which would probably dictate front-back), so you get ranged flanking instead. As in your example again, certainly the enemy should then adopt the tactic of warping away (if possible), or have reinforcements arrive so that they behind your group, at range of your small ships while out of range of the guns of your larger ships. In fact that could be above, or below, etc, just whichever points puts you in range of what one can destroy and best as possible away from whatever can destroy them. So certainly, there is much room for tactical positioning and bouncing if possible. Of course, kiting is a tactic, moving away from your enemy as you keep range of them and stay out of their range, or having support (repair) ships moving away from the enemy while staying in range of the ships your supporting. Of course, taclking ships have the unpleasant duty of getting in point black at ships to scramble their warp drives to prevent them from just flying away at warp when they feel close to being destroyed.
A lot of traditional flanking occurs from having multiple fleets in adjecent solar systems (system to system travel is governed by jump gates), and that tends to fill the more traditional flank maneuvers. Knowing a fleet is waiting to attack me if I go to system B or C, as I'm in A, I'm either more inclined to retreat to D (if clear) given there is another way to go, else I may be trapped and may have to use bait tactics.
And since many combat sites tend to revolve around static structures, like space stations, warp gates, resource areas, etc, a blob tends to be useful in those situations as your opponent at those places tend to be limited in their positioning.
Most of this all stems from how ships fly around in Eve as you can warp to any distance away from any large scale object, and established point (with limitations to how you can get those points aka, having to once physically be there or probe someone at that very point), or ship visible to someone already in fleet. Having a flank of ships in your way does not stop you from warping through them.
"wife and girlfriend"
Hol' up-
2:54 nobody laughed at this joke but I thought it was hilarious.
He mentioned Afghanistan and why we went there and it had nothing to do with terrorism ,that is just what they used as an excuse to invade that country .
i went out with a fleet of caracals and destroyed a capital ship only loosing three
4:25 /eve